---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/10/05: 60 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 2. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay (Charlie Kuss) 3. 05:43 AM - Auto Pilots (Jerry Isler) 4. 06:11 AM - LASAR/elecr ign (Charles Heathco) 5. 06:44 AM - The Mother of all giant scale B-52's (Rick Galati) 6. 06:55 AM - Update... Blue Mountain Install... (Bill VonDane) 7. 07:07 AM - Odyssey Battery Installation Kit (Alexander, Don) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Robert E. Lynch) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: Auto Pilots (Sam Buchanan) 10. 07:25 AM - Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit (Bill VonDane) 11. 07:26 AM - Re: Auto Pilots (Robert E. Lynch) 12. 07:28 AM - links to Super 8? (Vincent Osburn) 13. 07:38 AM - Re: Update... Blue Mountain Install... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 14. 07:38 AM - Re: Auto Pilots (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 15. 07:45 AM - Spinners (Ernie) 16. 08:00 AM - Re: Update... Blue Mountain Install... (Bill VonDane) 17. 08:28 AM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Walter Tondu) 18. 08:44 AM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Randy Lervold) 19. 09:35 AM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: () 20. 10:09 AM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (John Spicer) 21. 10:11 AM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Dale Ensing) 22. 10:28 AM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (John Spicer) 23. 10:47 AM - Re: Auto Pilots (Douglas Weiler) 24. 11:37 AM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (Dave Bristol) 25. 11:41 AM - Re: Auto Pilots (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 26. 11:42 AM - POP rivet static port (George Inman) 27. 11:51 AM - Re: POP rivet static port (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 28. 12:02 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 29. 12:24 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Sam Buchanan) 30. 12:52 PM - Re: POP rivet static port (Walter Tondu) 31. 12:55 PM - Re: POP rivet static port (Walter Tondu) 32. 01:08 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Stein Bruch) 33. 01:16 PM - A/P and servos (Larry James) 34. 01:34 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Mickey Coggins) 35. 01:38 PM - Re: A/P and servos (Bill VonDane) 36. 01:38 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Bill VonDane) 37. 01:38 PM - Electric or manual trim? (Jim Peoples) 38. 01:46 PM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Randy Lervold) 39. 02:09 PM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (cgalley) 40. 02:09 PM - Re: A/P and servos (Sam Buchanan) 41. 02:20 PM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (Sam Buchanan) 42. 02:33 PM - Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit (Jim Cimino) 43. 02:44 PM - Electric or Manual Trim ? (Jim Peoples) 44. 02:48 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (John) 45. 03:08 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Stein Bruch) 46. 03:16 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Dave Bristol) 47. 03:35 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Dave Bristol) 48. 04:04 PM - Re: links to Super 8? (RGray67968@aol.com) 49. 04:13 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (linn walters) 50. 04:25 PM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (linn walters) 51. 04:36 PM - Re: Electric or Manual Trim ? (Rob Prior (rv7)) 52. 04:56 PM - Re: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's () 53. 05:29 PM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (Charlie England) 54. 05:37 PM - Roll your own auto pilot? Re: Auto Pilots (Ed Anderson) 55. 05:56 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Jim Jewell) 56. 06:14 PM - Re: LASAR/elecr ign (Alex Peterson) 57. 06:45 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Dave Bristol) 58. 08:34 PM - Re: links to Super 8? (WFACT01@aol.com) 59. 10:13 PM - Re: Auto Pilots (Nick Nafsinger) 60. 10:16 PM - Looking for FWF photos. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:03 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" "Konrad L. Werner" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" > > Wrong statement / Different Cooler manufacturer! > > Positech had problems earlier, but Aero Classic had none that I know off? But then I am very far from knowing everything. Perhaps I missed any discussions about problems on these? > > Do not archive > I sent my Positech in and got a replacement. neither the old one or the new one look like these. The guy I talked with at Positech said they would melt them all down and make new ones, he talked like it was no big deal to do that. If one of them did make it back to the field, it would not be a problem other than the exchange of heat was not quite up to that of a Stewart Warner. Many are still in use that were not sent in and they seem to be doing just fine, last I heard. I thought the Positech that I sent back was a very well constructed cooler. Just an oppinion. Phil do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:49 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Cy, You are referring to the early model Positech coolers. AeroClassics never had this problem. The problematic oil coolers were copies of the current Stewart Warner design. The AeroClassics are similar to the oil coolers sold by Niagara & Harrison. Apples to Oranges. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > >There was one brand of oil cooler that didn't work very well and the company >that made them exchanged them all free. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Point" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > > > > Care to elaborate on that? > > > >>I wondered where all the coolers went that were replaced free. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:47 AM PST US From: "Jerry Isler" Subject: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would you buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 so panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I would have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice if the auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a Dynon D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. What are the pros and cons of these systems? Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out of options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You know what I mean). Jerry Isler Donalsonville, GA RV4 N455J (not flying yet) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:38 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I have an A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re problems with this system, but the posts are not very current. I find hardly any problems posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so new that not a lot is known about them yet. My research has me leaning toward the e/p-mag sys for lower cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy users? Charlie Heathco ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:09 AM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati RV related? Well....this RC had the wingspan of an RV-4. http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:38 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some more photos and comments to my web site... http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm -Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:23 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit From: "Alexander, Don" --> RV-List message posted by: "Alexander, Don" Listers, I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50? I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it. Don Alexander RV-8 Electrical and Panel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:24 AM PST US From: "Robert E. Lynch" Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert E. Lynch" Hi Charley I have a Laser on both mag, when I build my next RV it to will have Lasers on it. It is a certified system and best I can tell is no problems and I start in two blades. Sure makes the guys around jealous. BobLynch 465hrs RV6 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:31 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Jerry Isler wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" > > If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would you > buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 so > panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I would > have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice if the > auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a Dynon > D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. What are > the pros and cons of these systems? > Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out of > options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You know > what I mean). Yes, dozens and dozens and dozens. Go here: http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html Search, "wing leveler" or "autopilot" or any of the above brand names. About all that can be said about these systems up to this point has been said and is in the archives. Not trying to cut off your question, just pointing you to the answers. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Navaid and EZ-Pilot.....not at the same time...) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:40 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane not sure what you could possible need... You can cut down the existing battery tray for the odyssey... You may need some different bolts installing your battery cables... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander, Don" Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit --> RV-List message posted by: "Alexander, Don" Listers, I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50? I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it. Don Alexander RV-8 Electrical and Panel ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:12 AM PST US From: "Robert E. Lynch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert E. Lynch" TRUTRAK TRUTRAK TRUTRAK No further discussions necessary. Bob ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:45 AM PST US From: "Vincent Osburn" Subject: RV-List: links to Super 8? 0.00 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary --> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Osburn" Hi all, I'm too poor to afford one but I got three friends agonizing over the F1or Harmon Rocket or RV-8 decision. I have heard that there is a 540 powered RV-8 option that uses Rocket style gear? Anybody got a links to 540 powered RV-8 sites? I've only been able to find one. Thank you in advance, Vince in Mojave. P.S. Hope the question ain't anathema to some of you. I don't want to hear it. Vince flyby41@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Bill, Word of advise, if those wire tiedown's are just your run of the mill Home Depot type sticky backs, they WILL let loose eventually. Especially in our aircrafts extreme environments. Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some more photos and comments to my web site... http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm -Bill ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Auto Pilots From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I would go with the Pictoral Pilot from TruTrak. It gives you the turn and bank and also autopilot. Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Isler Subject: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would you buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 so panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I would have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice if the auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a Dynon D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. What are the pros and cons of these systems? Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out of options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You know what I mean). Jerry Isler Donalsonville, GA RV4 N455J (not flying yet) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:03 AM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: RV-List: Spinners --> RV-List message posted by: "Ernie" Greg, Perhaps I should have been clearer on the discription of my situation.My prop is an older McCauley Mod#2D36C14-A from a 1964 Mooney with an O360 A1A. The originalspinner and backing plates were aluminum and had cracked and been repaired several times. The rear backing plate mounted to the fly wheel/ring gear with bolts on machined pads about an inch in from the ring gear.The prop hub does not touch the backing plate at all.In fact the backing plate is completely cut away except for the flange to bolt it to the fly wheel. The backing plate looks like a bowl with the centre of the bottom cut out. I have the Vans' spinner here, and it looks like it might work.My major concern was whether or not there was enough clearance inside the spinner to accomodate the McCauley hub since it appears to be rather tall and bulky and I'd rather know before I cut into the spinner and backing plate.Obviously, if there isn't enough room after the cutting the pieces will be scrap. Thanks for the help. Ernie Amadio RV-6 #21488 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:52 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Michael... Thanks for the tip... They are not Home Depot type, and they are epoxies up there... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Bill, Word of advise, if those wire tiedown's are just your run of the mill Home Depot type sticky backs, they WILL let loose eventually. Especially in our aircrafts extreme environments. Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install... --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some more photos and comments to my web site... http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm -Bill ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:23 AM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 03/10 9:10, Charles Heathco wrote: > I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I have an A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re problems with this system, but the posts are not very current. I find hardly any problems posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so new that not a lot is known about them yet. My research has me leaning toward the e/p-mag sys for lower cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy users? Charlie Heathco I also went with the LASAR ignition, but I'm not flying yet (almost) so I can't provide any real-world experience yet. Installation is easy though. I can say the Bob K. (aeroelectric.com) is not very fond of them. There have been many posts on this issue in that forum wherein Bob describes the reasons why he thinks there may be better alternatives. But, I am satisfied with my choice, so far. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:59 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I > have an A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re > problems with this system, but the posts are not very current. I find > hardly any problems posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so > new that not a lot is known about them yet. My research has me leaning > toward the e/p-mag sys for lower cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are > out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy users? Charlie Heathco Charlie, I'm a very happy user. I had it installed on my RV-8 (www.rv-8.com) and also spec'd it for my RV-3B I'm now building (www.rv-3.com). One thing, if you do order it be sure and get it WITHOUT the CHT temp sensing circuit, this is a known problem area. It is required on certified installations but of course not on experimentals. I have a few comments on both of my web sites about it. Randy Lervold ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:26 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: Mike: You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane. Cheers George > --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > > Mike, > > I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not > so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity. > >I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements > have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the > builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what are > the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and > who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position > to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and > sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:02 AM PST US From: "John Spicer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" I had always believed this to be incorrect. The repairman certificate is required for you to sign off on the annual condition inspection. I had always thought that it was not necessary to for anything else. Therefore you could do something such as install a prop and sign it off, though it could be subject to question during the condition inspection. Might be time to hit the FAR's. -- John www.rivetbangers.com - Building more than just RV's www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: > --> RV-List message posted by: > > > Mike: > > You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane. > > Cheers George ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:50 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" To Charlie, I have only 25 hours on the engine/LASAR system but it is working as expected. I do have the CHT sensor and not aware of any problems with it. To Randy, What kind of problems are you aware of?... or have experienced with the CHT sensor feature? Dale Ensing ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:01 AM PST US From: "John Spicer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" Check out this document from the FAA: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8300/8300_vol2/2_025_00.pdf and AC650-23A: http://www.rivetbangers.com/documents/AC65-23A.pdf The repairman certificate allows an individual to perform the annual condition inspection only. I believe that any owner can alter the aircraft as they see fit. I believe this would be based on the idea that the aircraft is not certified. Anyone have a better explanation? -- John www.rivetbangers.com - Building more than just RV's www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: > --> RV-List message posted by: > > > Mike: > > You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane. > > Cheers George > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > > > > Mike, > > > > I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not > > so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity. > > > >I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements > > have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the > > builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what are > > the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and > > who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position > > to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and > > sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they? > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:19 AM PST US From: Douglas Weiler Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Douglas Weiler > > If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one > would you > buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 > so > panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I > would > have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice > if the > auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a > Dynon > D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. > What are > the pros and cons of these systems? > Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out > of > options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You > know > what I mean). > I have a RV-4 with a Digiflight II installed (alt hold, VS mode, and GPSS steering). It is the most amazing autopilot I have used with side of the B-757 I fly for work. It is amazingly damped in rough air, never gets off altitude more than 10 feet and tracking s GPS course within .05 of a NM. I now consider an absolute necessity for my RV-4. XC flying is a no-brainer.. comfortable and fatigue free. Save your pennies and you will consider it your best investment in your airplane. Doug Weiler N722DW, 170 hour TT ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:44 AM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by an A&P or AI. Dave gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > > >Mike: > >You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane. > >Cheers George > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye >> >>Mike, >> >>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not >>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity. >> >>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements >>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the >>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what are >>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and >>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position >>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and >>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they? >> >> > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:16 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal big enough for the processor to read it. Any thoughts? Dan Hopper RV-7A (Flying) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:02 AM PST US From: "George Inman" Subject: RV-List: POP rivet static port --> RV-List message posted by: "George Inman" When installing Van's static port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet or just glue it in place? It seems to me that if you set the rivet there will be not much to attach the tubing to. GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:50 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: POP rivet static port --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com George, You're right, I wish those rivets were longer. I sanded off the area on the inside and set the rivets. Then used RTV (silicone) to glue and strain relieve the tubing. That way the RTV can get hold of the fuselage sides too. While you're at it put the "T" at the top of the bulkhead (centered) to get the best average pressure between the two ports. All IMHO, of course. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying) In a message dated 3/10/05 2:42:47 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, ghinman@mts.net writes: When installing Van's static port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet or just glue it in place? It seems to me that if you set the rivet there will be not much to attach the tubing to. GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:03 PM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm > not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country > flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me > back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the > error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that > one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type > barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal > big enough for the processor to read it. > > Any thoughts? > > Dan Hopper > RV-7A (Flying) Keep us informed on this. Phil RV6 flying ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:42 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > > Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm > not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country > flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me > back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the > error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that > one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type > barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal > big enough for the processor to read it. > > Any thoughts? > > Dan Hopper > RV-7A (Flying) Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that used the trim tab: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with slower aircraft. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:25 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: POP rivet static port --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 03/10 1:40, George Inman wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "George Inman" > > When installing Van's static > port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet > or just glue it in place? > It seems to me that if you set > the rivet there will be not much to > attach the tubing to. I "pulled" the pop rivet just enough to hold it firmly in place but not all the way so that it "pops". Then push the center pull pin from the outside inwards until it comes out. The flexible tubing vans provides will go over the now spread rearend of the rivet. After the tubing is in place I RTV'd it as a security measure. http://www.rv7-a.com/129_2938.jpg -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:49 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: POP rivet static port --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 03/10 2:50, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > You're right, I wish those rivets were longer. I sanded off the area on the > inside and set the rivets. Then used RTV (silicone) to glue and strain > relieve the tubing. That way the RTV can get hold of the fuselage sides too. > While you're at it put the "T" at the top of the bulkhead (centered) to get the > best average pressure between the two ports. All IMHO, of course. > > Dan Hopper > Walton, IN > RV-7A (Flying) > > > In a message dated 3/10/05 2:42:47 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, > ghinman@mts.net writes: > > When installing Van's static > port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet > or just glue it in place? > It seems to me that if you set > the rivet there will be not much to > attach the tubing to. I did it just like Dan. A few more pics. see entry dated 4/11/04 http://www.rv7-a.com/fuselage_4.htm -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:34 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" This has been done and there was a guy some years ago that sold a kit for this for some time period. Overall, it turned out to be un-popular at least in the RV crowd. I don't have personal experience with it so I can't comment on performance direclty, but there's probably some data in the archives. I'm not sure those little servos would be up to it, but who knows! Address is: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm The page is active, but I seem to recall that they haven't been selling any lately. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess it might be worth a shot, but remember the Altitude AP's out there right now are only about $1600 bucks and it's hard to beat that functionality. Cheers, Stein. Do Not Archive (It's already there). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal big enough for the processor to read it. Any thoughts? Dan Hopper RV-7A (Flying) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:44 PM PST US From: "Larry James" Subject: RV-List: A/P and servos --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry James" I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the TruTrak servo. The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book. But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls available. Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be available options or combination options ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:09 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Couldn't you slurp the altitude information from your altitude encoder before you send it to the transponder? > ... Pressure input would come from an automotive type > barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal > big enough for the processor to read it. > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:15 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: A/P and servos --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane the Blue Mountain servos have magnetic clutches an no resistance when not engaged... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry James" Subject: RV-List: A/P and servos --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry James" I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the TruTrak servo. The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book. But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls available. Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be available options or combination options ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:46 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I have one of these boards and instructions... Never did anything with it... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" This has been done and there was a guy some years ago that sold a kit for this for some time period. Overall, it turned out to be un-popular at least in the RV crowd. I don't have personal experience with it so I can't comment on performance direclty, but there's probably some data in the archives. I'm not sure those little servos would be up to it, but who knows! Address is: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm The page is active, but I seem to recall that they haven't been selling any lately. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess it might be worth a shot, but remember the Altitude AP's out there right now are only about $1600 bucks and it's hard to beat that functionality. Cheers, Stein. Do Not Archive (It's already there). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal big enough for the processor to read it. Any thoughts? Dan Hopper RV-7A (Flying) ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:51 PM PST US From: Jim Peoples Subject: RV-List: Electric or manual trim? 0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters@matronics.com --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Peoples Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on whether to go for electic or manual trim? jp --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:09 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > To Randy, > What kind of problems are you aware of?... or have experienced with the > CHT > sensor feature? > Dale Ensing First off, you need the correct dual pigtail CHT sensor, that is if you have a 4-channel CHT gauge. There are J-types and K-types and I forget which the LASAR requires, but it won't work correctly unless you have the correct type. Then, for some reason the connections from the sensor pigtail to the wires that go into the brain are hypersensitive. They can look perfectly good, and even test good with an ohmeter, but the slightest bit of resistance will cause the LASAR brain to fault, and when it faults the red dash light comes on and it simply goes back into fixed timing mag mode. It's not a safety issue because you still have two magnetos driving the system, but it's highly annoying and you're not getting the benefit of the advanced timing. Of course the red light is conspicuous also. What the CHT circuit does is move the advance back in incrental amounts any time the CHT is 425 degrees F or above. This was required for certification. Now most of us have fancy engine monitors with their own alarms for high CHT so if you simply eliminate the circuit you'll never have a problem. It cannot be field deactivated. My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near the master switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your engine will run hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge more efficiently in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system. Therefore you need to be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off for a long climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled off. Now my RV-8 had smaller cooling inlets and a plenum so it didn't have a surplus of cooling air to start with. I only had to turn it off 2-3 times in nearly 400 hours of flying. That sort of scenario is when on a cross country stop for fuel, high density altitude, high OAT, gross weight, and on a long climb. I'd takeoff normally then once my climb was established I'd turn the LASAR off, climb to 10/12/14k, then turn it back on. Just watch the CHTs and use your own judgement. All told I really like the LASAR system, and Unison support has been great, but I do think the P-mag/E-mag product has merit and may well be the system of choice in the near future, but like all the rest of you I'd like to see more field experience with the product and more experience with how the company will support it. FWIW, Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com www.rv-3.com ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:37 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on certified. This is FLAT OUT WRONG. Anyone can work on an experimental. One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as airworthy. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: > --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > > Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or > your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by > an A&P or AI. > > Dave > > gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: >> >> >>Mike: >> >>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft >>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far >>as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, >>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. >>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the >>answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many >>changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who >>has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want >>to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to >>sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons >>for building your own plane. >> >>Cheers George >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye >>> >>>Mike, >>> >>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not >>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my >>>curiosity. >>> >>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements >>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the >>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what >>>are >>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate >>>and >>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a >>>position >>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, >>>and >>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they? >>> >>> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:37 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: A/P and servos --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Larry James wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry James" > > I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the > installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and > pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the > TruTrak servo. > > The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no > control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book. > But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls > available. > > Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be > available options or combination options ?? > > Larry E. James > Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems- Larry, I'll take a stab at it. Navaid servo has a solenoid driven clutch which completely disengages when power is removed and has no drag. This servo, while analog and several years old, continues to function well in the field. You can drive the Navaid servo with the Navaid, EZ-Pilot, or the Navaid version of the DigiTrak. The TruTrak servo is a stepping servo motor that remains attached to the control system at all times. When it is powered down, there is a very small amount of drag that you can feel on the ground, but you won't notice it in the air. The EZ-Pilot and DigiTrak heads are both digital and use solid-state sensors instead of the mechanical gyro in the Navaid. They also offer functions, features and performance that is beyond the capability of the Navaid. When it comes to pitch control, you can go with a wing leveler and add the excellent AlTrak or one of the upcoming units from Trio Avionics. Or you can install a multi-axis system such as the TruTrak autopilots. There is also the Blue Mtn system that is an add-on for their EFIS. I do not know how the clutch is designed in the BMA servos. Maybe this didn't muddy the water too much. :-) Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:43 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan cgalley wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on > certified. > This is FLAT OUT WRONG. > > Anyone can work on an experimental. > > One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional > inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as > airworthy. > > Cy Galley > EAA Safety Programs Editor > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot Cy, I think you could also correctly state that *anyone* can work on a certificated aircraft. The kicker is getting an A&P/AI to make the necessary logbook entries. Sam Buchanan (overhauled two engines with A&P/AI's blessing) ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:51 PM PST US From: "Jim Cimino" Subject: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit Received-SPF: none --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" I used the stock tray and made two able brackets that I bolted to the bottom to take up the space, this way if I ever want to install a full size battery all I have to do is remove the brackets and make an new hold down. I cut the piece of channel that holds the battery down to fit and used 3/4" angle for the spacers. Jim Jim Cimino N7TL RV-8 S/N 80039 15+ Hours http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander, Don" Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alexander, Don" > > > Listers, > I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers > an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have > an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50? > I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it. > Don Alexander > RV-8 Electrical and Panel > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:19 PM PST US From: Jim Peoples Subject: RV-List: Electric or Manual Trim ? 0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters@matronics.com --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Peoples Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on whether to go for electic or manual trim? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:29 PM PST US From: "John" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "John" It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim "know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the elevator. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" > > > Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >> >> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >> I'm >> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >> country >> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >> steer me >> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >> the >> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >> with that >> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >> type >> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >> signal >> big enough for the processor to read it. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Dan Hopper >> RV-7A (Flying) > > Keep us informed on this. > Phil RV6 flying > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:03 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to work. Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know. In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude autopilot. I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "John" It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim "know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the elevator. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" > > > Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >> >> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >> I'm >> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >> country >> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >> steer me >> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >> the >> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >> with that >> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >> type >> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >> signal >> big enough for the processor to read it. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Dan Hopper >> RV-7A (Flying) > > Keep us informed on this. > Phil RV6 flying > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:50 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol I built one of these units and worked with it for quite a while and the bottom line was that the trim servo was just too slow - it worked, but not very well, the servo just couldn't keep up with the changes. The circuit and software however, are good and my current project is to mate it to a real servo. Will let the list know how it works. Dave -6 So Cal Sam Buchanan wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > >Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >> >> >>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm >>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country >>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me >>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the >>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that >>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type >>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal >>big enough for the processor to read it. >> >>Any thoughts? >> >>Dan Hopper >>RV-7A (Flying) >> >> > > >Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that >used the trim tab: > >http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm > >Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still >active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit >struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with >slower aircraft. > >Sam Buchanan > > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:51 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good. It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should work. Dave -6 So Cal Stein Bruch wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to work. >Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know. >In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude >autopilot. > >I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some >extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet! > >Cheers, >Stein. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "John" > >It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim >"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some >input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the >elevator. > >John > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >> >> >>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >>> >>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >>>I'm >>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >>>country >>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >>>steer me >>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >>>the >>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >>>with that >>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >>>type >>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >>>signal >>>big enough for the processor to read it. >>> >>>Any thoughts? >>> >>>Dan Hopper >>>RV-7A (Flying) >>> >>> >>Keep us informed on this. >>Phil RV6 flying >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:14 PM PST US From: RGray67968@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: links to Super 8? --> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com I'd start with Mike Stewart! Also, email him with any/all of your questions.....he'll help you out big time. http://www.mstewart.net/ Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/ Hi all, I'm too poor to afford one but I got three friends agonizing over the F1or Harmon Rocket or RV-8 decision. I have heard that there is a 540 powered RV-8 option that uses Rocket style gear? Anybody got a links to 540 powered RV-8 sites? I've only been able to find one. Thank you in advance, Vince in Mojave. P.S. Hope the question ain't anathema to some of you. I don't want to hear it. Vince flyby41@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:27 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Robert E. Lynch wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert E. Lynch" > >TRUTRAK TRUTRAK TRUTRAK No further discussions necessary. > >Bob > Although the question has been asked and hashed in the same manner ...... what I got was an opinion, without any rationale WHY you chose TRUTRAK! This being the information age, is it possible that you could part with your reasoning??? I, for one find the choices very difficult to make ..... and the longer the companies compete, they keep adding new stuff so someday they'll be pretty equal in capability. But they're not there yet. I have a lot of time and a few more 'sun-n-funs' to look, fondle, drool .... but I still will lack the reasoning some of you have for choosing a particular unit. I've talked to a few folks that made their decision on 'a good deal' ..... but I want facts, maam, just the facts. Linn do not archive > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:50 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Dave Bristol wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > >Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or >your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by >an A&P or AI. > >Dave > Or the original builder with a repairmans certificate. Linn do not archive -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:57 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric or Manual Trim ? --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" On 14:43:34 2005-03-10 Jim Peoples wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Peoples > Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on > whether to go for electic or manual trim? I don't think you'll easily find a consensus here on trim, primer, nosewheel/tailwheel, or slider/tip-up. But here's my opinion: 1. The manual trim option is the simplest, and probably the lightest, option. 2. The stock electric trim kit puts the servo in the elevator, which means you require a little bit of extra balance weight in your elevator counterbalances. I don't know how much, maybe someone here who's done it can tell us. This means you have both the extra weight of the servo, and the extra balance weight, in your tail (which is a long way from the CG in an airplane that is prone to being rear-CG sensitive). 3. Another option is to do as some others have done, which is a hybrid of the two "normal" systems. Buy the manual trim system, and the trim servo. Mount the servo on the shelf in front of the horizontal stabilizer, and drive the trim tab with it using the manual trim hardware. This system saves the extra balance weight in the elevator, and the weight of a push-pull cable all the way to the cockpit (you swap it for a light-gauge wire instead). Hope this helps! -Rob ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:01 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's --> RV-List message posted by: Rick, Thanks for coming by. My baloon would certainly be deflated more if I built that B52 and watched it go in. Ron > > From: Rick Galati > Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 02:43:33 GMT > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:40 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England cgalley wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > >I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on >certified. >This is FLAT OUT WRONG. > > Anyone can work on an experimental. > >One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional >inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as >airworthy. > >Cy Galley >EAA Safety Programs Editor >Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot > Even the 2nd statement isn't quite right. Experimental Homebuilts aren't considered 'Airworthy' by the FAA. If you read the boilerplate for signing off the 'annual', it says that the a/c is found to be in a condition that will allow 'safe operation'. I'm pretty sure that this stuff is covered somewhere on the EAA website. Charlie ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:22 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Roll your own auto pilot? Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler. I have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation (PSPICE) at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog approach or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more move for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit much. The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth capability. I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start out as an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe that a Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet (and least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your set heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this would feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared to the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would generate a roll rate command which would end up driving the servo. A small difference in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a faster roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously quite a bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general idea. The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale model aircraft servo. If anyone is interested in discussing approaches off-line give me a shout. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > > I built one of these units and worked with it for quite a while and the > bottom line was that the trim servo was just too slow - it worked, but > not very well, the servo just couldn't keep up with the changes. The > circuit and software however, are good and my current project is to mate > it to a real servo. > Will let the list know how it works. > > Dave -6 So Cal > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > >Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > >> > >> > >>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm > >>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country > >>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me > >>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the > >>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that > >>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type > >>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal > >>big enough for the processor to read it. > >> > >>Any thoughts? > >> > >>Dan Hopper > >>RV-7A (Flying) > >> > >> > > > > > >Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that > >used the trim tab: > > > >http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm > > > >Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still > >active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit > >struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with > >slower aircraft. > > > >Sam Buchanan > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:25 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the Dynon D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution. Is this True? Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > > But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the > sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good. > It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to > maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with > barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should > work. > > Dave -6 So Cal > > Stein Bruch wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" >> >>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to >>work. >>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know. >>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude >>autopilot. >> >>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some >>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet! >> >>Cheers, >>Stein. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "John" >> >>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim >>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need >>some >>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the >>elevator. >> >>John >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>> >>> >>>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >>>> >>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >>>>I'm >>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >>>>country >>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >>>>steer me >>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >>>>the >>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >>>>with that >>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >>>>type >>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >>>>signal >>>>big enough for the processor to read it. >>>> >>>>Any thoughts? >>>> >>>>Dan Hopper >>>>RV-7A (Flying) >>>> >>>> >>>Keep us informed on this. >>>Phil RV6 flying >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:40 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near > the master > switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your > engine will run > hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge > more efficiently > in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system. > Therefore you need to > be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off > for a long > climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled > off. Now my RV-8 I have 584 hours on my Lasar system now over the last 3.5 years, and here are some thoughts: Regarding what Randy has written above, the system does not advance past the baseline 25 degrees for the first 15 minutes of operation, allowing for a pretty good taxi and climbout for an RV. I don't believe any of the other EI's do this, and I can't say how much difference it really makes. One does need to be aware of this, as fine tuning mixture settings for cruise should wait until this period is expired. Reliability wise I have had two failures. At 342 hours, the left mag died. It was detected by a higher than normal EGT noted during a 40 minute flight, and the mag check on the return showed that the left mag was sick (not dead, but not good either). Unison sent another mag free of charge next day to me, excellent service. I left for the west coast the next day, and was thinking about that new mag when over the Rocky Mountains.... At 569 hours, during cruise flight, the engine hesitated (this tends to get one's attention) for perhaps 1/4 second, then recovered. The fault light was on indicating the system was in backup mode (mags running). Once over an airport, I checked the L/R mags, and the left was completely dead (one tends to move the switch back quite rapidly when the engine completely stops firing). Once again, Unison replaced it with a brand new one free of charge, although this took a couple weeks this time. I suspect if I had been on the road, they would have overnighted one. I never did learn what the failure was on the first mag, but the recent failure was caused by a broken rotor. So, overall, Unison really sticks behind their product, but two failures of two different left mags is a little troubling. Ignition systems are not yet trouble free - anyone's. One person here had to rebuild a lot of his cowl and baffling when an encoder wheel came off inside his Electroair during startup. Others have had problems with Lightspeed. It is impossible to say with any accuracy what anyone's system's reliability is. Given the performance afforded by EI, mainly fuel economy, I would not be interested in running my plane on standard mags. Alex Peterson RV6-A 584 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:49 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Jim, I just did a quick Google search and found this quote. " Mode S has an altitude resolution of 25 ft, Mode C has an altitude resolution of 100 ft." I think that may be the standard, but that doesn't mean that the newer encoders couldn't have higher resolution. With that in mind, if you have a high resolution encoder, I don't see why it wouldn't be an acceptable source for autopilot altitude information. Dave Jim Jewell wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > >I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the Dynon >D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution. >Is this True? > >Jim in Kelowna > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Bristol" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol >> >>But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the >>sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good. >>It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to >>maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with >>barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should >>work. >> >>Dave -6 So Cal >> >>Stein Bruch wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" >>> >>>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to >>>work. >>>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know. >>>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude >>>autopilot. >>> >>>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some >>>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet! >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Stein. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John >>>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >>> >>> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "John" >>> >>>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim >>>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need >>>some >>>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the >>>elevator. >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>>To: >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>>> >>>> >>>>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >>>>>I'm >>>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >>>>>country >>>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >>>>>steer me >>>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >>>>>the >>>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >>>>>with that >>>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >>>>>type >>>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >>>>>signal >>>>>big enough for the processor to read it. >>>>> >>>>>Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>>Dan Hopper >>>>>RV-7A (Flying) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Keep us informed on this. >>>>Phil RV6 flying >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:15 PM PST US From: WFACT01@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: links to Super 8? --> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com VINCE- I know of one flying but not of a web sight-TOM Tom Whelan Whelan Farms Airport President EAA Chapter 1097 wfact01@aol.com 249 Hard Hill Road North PO Box 426 Bethlehem, CT 06751 Tel: 203-266-5300 Fax: 202-266-5140 EAA Technical/Flight Advisor RV-8 IO- 540 LYC READY FOR SUN-100 40-PLUS HRS S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction) ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:47 PM PST US From: "Nick Nafsinger" Subject: RE: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: "Nick Nafsinger" Grey Code outputs at 100' increments, Serial 10'. As far as an autopilot that controls Altitude via the trim, Chelton is already doing it. I know they have had some 'issues' but apparently have worked them out. Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Jim, I just did a quick Google search and found this quote. " Mode S has an altitude resolution of 25 ft, Mode C has an altitude resolution of 100 ft." I think that may be the standard, but that doesn't mean that the newer encoders couldn't have higher resolution. With that in mind, if you have a high resolution encoder, I don't see why it wouldn't be an acceptable source for autopilot altitude information. Dave Jim Jewell wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > >I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the Dynon >D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution. >Is this True? > >Jim in Kelowna > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Bristol" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol >> >>But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the >>sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good. >>It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to >>maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with >>barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should >>work. >> >>Dave -6 So Cal >> >>Stein Bruch wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" >>> >>>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to >>>work. >>>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know. >>>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude >>>autopilot. >>> >>>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some >>>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet! >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Stein. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John >>>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >>> >>> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "John" >>> >>>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim >>>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need >>>some >>>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the >>>elevator. >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>>To: >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" >>>> >>>> >>>>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? >>>>>I'm >>>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross >>>>>country >>>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to >>>>>steer me >>>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to >>>>>the >>>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked >>>>>with that >>>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive >>>>>type >>>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error >>>>>signal >>>>>big enough for the processor to read it. >>>>> >>>>>Any thoughts? >>>>> >>>>>Dan Hopper >>>>>RV-7A (Flying) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Keep us informed on this. >>>>Phil RV6 flying >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:37 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Looking for FWF photos. --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Hi all: I'm looking for any and all tips and tricks for everything firewall forward (wiring, plumbing, etc.). If you have a website with pictures of things under the engine cowl could you please send me your web addresses off-list? I'd like to look at as many as possible, it should save time and frustration and give me some ideas. Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Into the home stretch