---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/19/05: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Re: interior paint (Mickey Coggins) 2. 04:06 AM - Re: interior paint (Charles Rowbotham) 3. 04:50 AM - Re: Can't get full aft control deflection (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 4. 05:11 AM - Re: interior paint (Charlie Kuss) 5. 05:32 AM - Re: Teflon hose assembly (Jim Brown) 6. 06:19 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Bob 1) 7. 07:09 AM - Re: interior paint (Jeff Dowling) 8. 07:39 AM - Re: interior paint (Matthew Brandes) 9. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Teflon hose assembly (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 10. 09:45 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 11. 09:50 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 12. 09:59 AM - Garmin Screw (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 13. 10:17 AM - Re: interior paint (Jeff Point) 14. 10:20 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Sam Buchanan) 15. 10:41 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Jeff Point) 16. 10:44 AM - Re: Garmin Screw (Jeff Point) 17. 10:49 AM - Re: Garmin Screw (Bob C.) 18. 11:02 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Sam Buchanan) 19. 11:11 AM - Re: Garmin Screw (Dave Saylor) 20. 11:49 AM - Re: Garmin Screw (Dale Ensing) 21. 12:11 PM - Re: Garmin Screw (Kevin Horton) 22. 12:28 PM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) (Dwight Frye) 23. 01:03 PM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) (Charlie England) 24. 01:45 PM - Re: Garmin Screw (Charlie Kuss) 25. 01:45 PM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) (Jerry Springer) 26. 02:47 PM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) (Dwight Frye) 27. 02:59 PM - Flying through a mountain (Terry Watson) 28. 04:31 PM - Tires, how to get stem out of wheel (Charles Heathco) 29. 07:22 PM - Re: interior paint (gert) 30. 08:43 PM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 31. 09:21 PM - wing incidence (Jeff Orear) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:20 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins I agree. When you think the mechanical stuff is done, and you are ready to wire, then it's time to paint it. Mickey Kyle Boatright wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" > > One data point.. > > I painted mine when the shell was more or less complete with seats and > floorboards. I installed the panel, ran the electrical, and mounted the > wings afterwards. I was careful and didn't have to touch up anything... > > KB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg@itmack" > To: > Subject: RV-List: interior paint > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" >> >>I'm just starting my RV8 fuse and I'm wandering would it be better to >>paint the interior cockpit area while I'm building so that I have better >>access to get into the tight places or paint after it's all assembled. >>I'm aware that I would have to touch up when it's completed but it seems >>easier to paint now. >> >>Greg >>RV8 >>82070 >> -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:13 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Greg, We used Sherwin Williams - Sun Fire - (a 2-part paint). We sprayed after we had fitted the interior panels. It has held up well thru the building process and for the last 4 yrs. Good Building, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Greg@itmack" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: interior paint >Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:31:56 +1000 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" > >I'm just starting my RV8 fuse and I'm wandering would it be better to paint >the interior cockpit area while I'm building so that I have better access >to get into the tight places or paint after it's all assembled. I'm aware >that I would have to touch up when it's completed but it seems easier to >paint now. > >Greg >RV8 >82070 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:45 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Can't get full aft control deflection --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Walter, Beautiful website. You definitely don't want that type of binding. It could break the rod end off. Not a good situation! I assume the stops you're talking about are at the horns, and you've measured for the proper up elevator angle. If so, it looks like the obvious solution is to trim a little of the horn away to clear the rod end. It won't take enough to make any difference in the strength of the horn. Just get a half round file go to work. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Was flying, now being painted) In a message dated 3/18/05 10:16:22 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, walter@tondu.com writes: After installing the controls tonight, I found that I can't get full aft deflection on the controls (to the stops) due to a binding issue with the rod end bearing and the elevator pivot control horn. Any help and ideas are appreciated. Text and pictures here. http://rv7-a.com/lasttenpercent.htm#3/18/05 Thanks, -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com working on the last 10% ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:43 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Greg, I think that depends on if you intend to Alodine & prime prior to assembly. If you do, applying the finish paint at this point will save time later. I primed and painted all my cockpit parts before assembly. I used an epoxy primer and PPG's Delta (similar to Imron) paint. I found that this paint is very tough. Even in areas where the rivet set (I back riveted everything) slipped off the tail of the rivet, almost no damage was done. In the few places where there was damage, only the finish coat was nicked off. The primer was still there. Your finished job will turn out much nicer, if you paint first. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" > >I'm just starting my RV8 fuse and I'm wandering would it be better to >paint the interior cockpit area while I'm building so that I have better >access to get into the tight places or paint after it's all >assembled. I'm aware that I would have to touch up when it's completed >but it seems easier to paint now. > >Greg >RV8 >82070 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:57 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon hose assembly --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Brown Go to a hardware store and purchase a tubing bender spring (with 1/2 inch inside diameter), they are about 12 inches long. Snake the spring thru the landing gear fitting - at that point you can then slide the fuel line tubing thru the spring. Jim Brown RV 7A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:36 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > I wrote down at the time (last year's sun n fun) that the condors were > going for $50. What do the Air Hawks go for new? > > $37.80 from Spruce. Beat that with a stick! > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/mcairhawk.php > > do not archive > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com ================================= My first set of Airhwaks came FREE with my pre-owned RV-3. The second set of Airhhawks were my mistake, using price alone as a measuring "stick". They were badly out of round and balancing was impossible. Tire mileage sucked, and this case, it was a blessing not to suffer any longer than necessary. No longer do I confuse initial price with VALUE and SAFETY. My 'really round' Condors not only give me more miles per dollar, but STABILITY that Airhawks cannot begin to match. My RV3 taildragger almost guides itself, now. The 120 mph ground speed rating is comforting, too. So, what is stable taildragger steering, safety and comfort worth? Spruce currently lists Condors for very little more. For balanceable, rounder tires with added stability and more miles per dollar, Condor represents true value and.... the only way to fly, IMO. Can't beat that with a stick! P.S. Spruce is hardly the only tire game in town. Surf the Net. My Condors came via a limited rebate bargain program some years ago through Chance Aviation. I bought TWO sets at that time. A lifetime supply. Bob ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:50 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" I would also make some cardboard patterns of your interior in case you decide to put insulation in the cockpit. I did it after and what a pain in the @%$. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 165 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Oke" Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke > > Hi; > > My recommendation would be to paint after the interior is largely complete > (baggage side panels, seats, floor, etc.) but before wiring. Putting all > the > wiring in and then removing same to paint would be a significant cost in > time and effort. > > Depending on what paint method you choose (rattle can or HVLP sprayer) you > are right that it will be probably be easier to do some of the more > awkward > places as you proceed rather than leave it all till the end. > > Jim Oke > RV-6A > Wpg., MB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg@itmack" > To: > Subject: RV-List: interior paint > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" >> >> I'm just starting my RV8 fuse and I'm wandering would it be better to >> paint the interior cockpit area while I'm building so that I have better >> access to get into the tight places or paint after it's all assembled. >> I'm aware that I would have to touch up when it's completed but it seems >> easier to paint now. >> >> Greg >> RV8 >> 82070 >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:06 AM PST US From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: Re: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" Greg, I'll suggest another alternative. I painted all of the little pieces and parts that I knew I wouldn't be able to reach once they were riveted on. Later, after the fuselage was all riveted together, I went back and painted everything inside. This worked out really well as all the hard to paint places were already painted, I just needed to hit the big flat surfaces. I would also suggest waiting as long as possible to paint.... right before the wiring process people are suggesting is a good idea. You'll be in and out of the fuselage a lot. Matthew RV-9A Finsish Kit www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:09 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Teflon hose assembly --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Good idea......I also used Bulk Head Fittings where the fuel lines exit the fuselage which makes it much easier to connect the wing tanks. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Teflon hose assembly > --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com > > I put the aluminum line through the gear mouni in two pieces,that made it > easier and it fit. > Bob Olds > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:46 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) http://www.desser.com/epdf/ACJuneFinal04-dtr.pdf Here's a web site w/ good prices and this particular link is the Aviation Consumer writeup on tires. The airhawks scored a 5.9 relative ranking. The Condor was an 8.8. It's worth reading if you got nothing better to do... Lucky -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > > > I wrote down at the time (last year's sun n fun) that the condors were > > going for $50. What do the Air Hawks go for new? > > > > $37.80 from Spruce. Beat that with a stick! > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/mcairhawk.php > > > > do not archive > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D > > http://www.rvproject.com > > ================================= > > My first set of Airhwaks came FREE with my pre-owned RV-3. The second set of > Airhhawks were my mistake, using price alone as a measuring "stick". They > were badly out of round and balancing was impossible. Tire mileage sucked, > and this case, it was a blessing not to suffer any longer than necessary. > > No longer do I confuse initial price with VALUE and SAFETY. > > My 'really round' Condors not only give me more miles per dollar, but > STABILITY that Airhawks cannot begin to match. My RV3 taildragger almost > guides itself, now. The 120 mph ground speed rating is comforting, too. > > So, what is stable taildragger steering, safety and comfort worth? Spruce > currently lists Condors for very little more. For balanceable, rounder tires > with added stability and more miles per dollar, Condor represents true value > and.... the only way to fly, IMO. Can't beat that with a stick! > > P.S. > Spruce is hardly the only tire game in town. Surf the Net. My Condors came > via a limited rebate bargain program some years ago through Chance Aviation. > I bought TWO sets at that time. A lifetime supply. > > Bob > > > > > > http://www.desser.com/epdf/ACJuneFinal04-dtr.pdf Here's a web site w/ good prices and this particular link is the Aviation Consumer writeup on tires. The airhawks scored a 5.9 relative ranking. The Condor was an 8.8. It's worth reading if you got nothing better to do... Lucky -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" I wrote down at the time (last year's sun n fun) that the condors were going for $50. What do the Air Hawks go for new? $37.80 from Spruce. Beat that with a stick! http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/mcairhawk.php do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ================================= My first set of Airhwaks came FREE with my pre-owned RV-3. The second set of Airhhawks were my mistake, using price alone as a measuring "stick". They were badly out of round and balancing was impossible. Tire mileage sucked, and th is case, it was a blessing not to suffer any longer than necessary. No longer do I confuse initial price with VALUE and SAFETY. My 'really round' Condors not only give me more miles per dollar, but STABILITY that Airhawks cannot begin to match. My RV3 taildragger almost guides itself, now. The 120 mph ground speed rating is comforting, too. So, what is stable taildragger steering, safety and comfort worth? Spruce currently lists Condors for very little more. For balanceable, rounder tires with added stability and more miles per dollar, Condor represents true value and.... the only way to fly, IMO. Can't beat that with a stick! P.S. Spruce is hardly the only tire game in town. Surf the Net. My Condors came via a limited rebate bargain program some years ago through Chance Aviation. I bought TWO sets at that time. A lifetime supply. Bob ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:09 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, in the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this chart where the condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of extra tire weight. That's heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! lucky -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > > > I wrote down at the time (last year's sun n fun) that the condors were > > going for $50. What do the Air Hawks go for new? > > > > $37.80 from Spruce. Beat that with a stick! > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/mcairhawk.php > > > > do not archive > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D > > http://www.rvproject.com > > ================================= > > My first set of Airhwaks came FREE with my pre-owned RV-3. The second set of > Airhhawks were my mistake, using price alone as a measuring "stick". They > were badly out of round and balancing was impossible. Tire mileage sucked, > and this case, it was a blessing not to suffer any longer than necessary. > > No longer do I confuse initial price with VALUE and SAFETY. > > My 'really round' Condors not only give me more miles per dollar, but > STABILITY that Airhawks cannot begin to match. My RV3 taildragger almost > guides itself, now. The 120 mph ground speed rating is comforting, too. > > So, what is stable taildragger steering, safety and comfort worth? Spruce > currently lists Condors for very little more. For balanceable, rounder tires > with added stability and more miles per dollar, Condor represents true value > and.... the only way to fly, IMO. Can't beat that with a stick! > > P.S. > Spruce is hardly the only tire game in town. Surf the Net. My Condors came > via a limited rebate bargain program some years ago through Chance Aviation. > I bought TWO sets at that time. A lifetime supply. > > Bob > > > > > > forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, in the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this chart where the condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of extra tire weight. That's heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! lucky -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" I wrote down at the time (last year's sun n fun) that the condors were going for $50. What do the Air Hawks go for new? $37.80 from Spruce. Beat that with a stick! http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/mcairhawk.php do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ================================= My first set of Airhwaks came FREE with my pre-owned RV-3. The second set of Airhhawks were my mistake, using price alone as a measuring "stick". They were badly out of round and balancing was impossible. Tire mileage sucked, and th is case, it was a blessing not to suffer any longer than necessary. No longer do I confuse initial price with VALUE and SAFETY. My 'really round' Condors not only give me more miles per dollar, but STABILITY that Airhawks cannot begin to match. My RV3 taildragger almost guides itself, now. The 120 mph ground speed rating is comforting, too. So, what is stable taildragger steering, safety and comfort worth? Spruce currently lists Condors for very little more. For balanceable, rounder tires with added stability and more miles per dollar, Condor represents true value and.... the only way to fly, IMO. Can't beat that with a stick! P.S. Spruce is hardly the only tire game in town. Surf the Net. My Condors came via a limited rebate bargain program some years ago through Chance Aviation. I bought TWO sets at that time. A lifetime supply. Bob ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:17 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: Garmin Screw 0.00 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.00 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? thanks, lucky My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? thanks, lucky ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:59 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point I'll second the SW Sunfire paint. I painted the interior as soon as the structure of the "canoe" was done. It held up very well over the next year of climbing in and out 10,000 times, dropping tools, etc. Mix it 1:1 with the flattening base (10% gloss) and add the hardener as well. And it's usually available locally. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:16 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan lucky wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, > in the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this > chart where the condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of > extra tire weight. That's heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! That was obviously a misprint; I suspect the weight of two Air Hawks is 17.9 lbs. I didn't weigh the Air Hawks I installed on my RV-6, but I have recollection of them being noticeably heavier than the Aero Trainers, Michelins, retreads, or Condors I have used in the past. One of the retreads I ran was nearly 1/4" out of round. Many folks have had good experience with them but I didn't get significantly better wear with the retreads than the other tires. Since they cost as much as Air Hawks or Condors, I have decided to skip the retreads. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:28 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point I recall reading that at the time this article came out, and thinking it was a typo. It appears to be a typo indeed. Spruce has a chart of the weight of various tires, and the heaviest Airhawk 6:00-6 8 ply is 7.8 lbs., not 17.9. Also they tested the 6.00-6 which is bigger than our tires. The RV-sized 5.00-5 6 ply is 4.3 lbs. Jeff Point 150 hours on my first Airhawks and probably 100 more left. Milwaukee WI > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:13 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point I used regular 100 deg countersunk #8 screws. They don't fit in the dimple in the tray perfectly, however they do leave plenty of clearance for the radio to slide in and out, and they hold the tray securely. This is on a Garmin GTX320, YMMV. Jeff Point > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:54 AM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " So what does Stark say??? On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:58:12 +0000 0.00 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.00 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses, lucky wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. > > One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. > > Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? > > thanks, > lucky > > My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. > > One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. > > Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? > > thanks, > lucky > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:49 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > lucky wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) >> >>forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, >>in the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this >>chart where the condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of >>extra tire weight. That's heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! > > > > That was obviously a misprint; I suspect the weight of two Air Hawks is > 17.9 lbs. I didn't weigh the Air Hawks I installed on my RV-6, but I > have recollection of them being noticeably heavier than the Aero > Trainers, Michelins, retreads, or Condors I have used in the past. Correction; should have read: "I have no recollection"...... Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:56 AM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" NAS514P632-XX should do it. Aircraft Spruce page 92 (2004/2005). Avionics never come with the tray mounting hardware. There are too many options available to the installer for the manufacturer to try to anticipate which hardware is required. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 831-722-9141 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky Subject: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? thanks, lucky My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can I order them from? thanks, lucky ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:31 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" The hardware store screws are not 100 deg. Think they are 90 deg or something like that. Therefore they do not seat down into the tray dimples. Dale Ensing ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:11 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > >My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of >the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour >running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay >flush in there to no avail. > >One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws >and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not >they sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have >been nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told >that the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. > >Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and >who can I order them from? > >thanks, >lucky > >My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of >the flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour >running around town trying to find machine screws that would lay >flush in there to no avail. > >One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws >and asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they >sure as heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been >nice to have gotten them with the tray or at least been told that >the "special" screws had to be purchases separately. > >Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and >who can I order them from? I used standard aviation #6 screws, exactly the same as are used in many other places on our aircraft. AN525 screws, IIRC. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:04 PM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye On Sat Mar 19 00:38:26 2005, j1j2h3@juno.com wrote : >Please add my vote to those in favor of this project. I am not a computer >guru but would be pleased to aid in entering data from previous Matronics >postings. >[ ... snip ... ] >I think this thread should be kept on the RV-list for a while, or at least >a progress report listed periodically to help gauge and build interest. >Perhaps Matronics would consider running it on their site as a supplement >to their lists. Jim (and anyone else who is interested), There are a few of us talking about pulling together a Wiki off-list. The discussion was taken (mostly) off-list so we didn't clutter up everyone's inbox with a discussion they might not be interested in reading about (though I am sure everyone on this list likely has well developed the ability to delete e-mail messages). But since you asked on-list, I thought I'd give a brief reply on-list. I hesitate to dump even an abridged-and-organized version of the RV-list postings into the Wiki unaltered. There are a couple of reasons for that. For one we already have the RV-list archives which support a great search mechanism. So, in a sense, the ability for newcomers to go back and look at previous postings is taken care of with the Matronics search as well as in other forums. The second reason I hesitate to dump postings into the Wiki has to do with a (potentially overdeveloped) sense of concern for ownership and the rights of the original authors to not have their work used without giving explicit permission. IF the _author_ wants to take what they wrote and contribute an article ... say a "howto" on some subject or another, FANTASTIC! :) That is what we would like to see happen *if* the Wiki gets off the ground. Finally, it is our thinking that a Wiki would serve a very different purpose than the existing forums. We currently have forums in which there is a dialog between members (the Matronics lists, the Yahoo groups, the forums on Doug Reeves' site, RivetBangers.com, and others). Each of these venues allow you to pull up information ... and tends to deliver it in the form of a "narative", where you get the list of e-mail/messages on the topic you select, and can scan through them in order pulling out what you want or need. Alternatively, the main part of Doug Reeves' site is more a news and events outlet. This is yet another way to gather and distribute information. In this case it (somewhat) filters through an editor who helps condense things into a nicely packaged, continually updated, list of "articles" which get posted. We don't intend the Wiki to be a be a discussion forum. The Wiki technology isn't even well suited to that task. We don't intend the Wiki to be a news outlet either. In short the goal of the Wiki would be to allow us all to cooperatively gather knowledge about the building, maintaining, and flying of RVs. There will be areas of interest, and articles written in those areas by folks who volunteer to share their experiences. So rather than being a "narative", it will be more an evolving "encyclopedia" of RV (and maybe in a more general sense, homebuilding) knowledge. The structure of the site can evolve as better ways to organize it are identified. In fact YOU (each of you) can participate, contribute, and modify the site at will. It is felt that something like a Wiki would actually be a good _compliment_ for all of the existing forums ... a subject we can talk about more if folks are intersted. We see this as fitting into a niche that is different from the existing forums and venues. Will it fly? (Pun intended.) Who knows? We are tempted to throw it up and just see. In fact, I start to get tempted to throw the Wiki up but .. for now .. have it be oriented toward just collecting information and making plans for the Wiki itself. People with suggestions can come there and post their thoughts. Anyway ... this has gotten longer than I intended, so I'll wrap it up here. If you are interested in the Wiki (or just think you might be), drop me a line off-list and lets talk. As news becomes worth sharing, we'll post it here (and likely elsewhere too). -- Dwight do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:35 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Dwight Frye wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >On Sat Mar 19 00:38:26 2005, j1j2h3@juno.com wrote : > > >>Please add my vote to those in favor of this project. I am not a computer >>guru but would be pleased to aid in entering data from previous Matronics >>postings. >>[ ... snip ... ] >>I think this thread should be kept on the RV-list for a while, or at least >>a progress report listed periodically to help gauge and build interest. >>Perhaps Matronics would consider running it on their site as a supplement >>to their lists. >> >> > >Jim (and anyone else who is interested), > >There are a few of us talking about pulling together a Wiki off-list. The >discussion was taken (mostly) off-list so we didn't clutter up everyone's >inbox with a discussion they might not be interested in reading about (though >I am sure everyone on this list likely has well developed the ability to >delete e-mail messages). But since you asked on-list, I thought I'd give a >brief reply on-list. > >I hesitate to dump even an abridged-and-organized version of the RV-list >postings into the Wiki unaltered. There are a couple of reasons for that. >For one we already have the RV-list archives which support a great search >mechanism. So, in a sense, the ability for newcomers to go back and look >at previous postings is taken care of with the Matronics search as well >as in other forums. > >The second reason I hesitate to dump postings into the Wiki has to do with >a (potentially overdeveloped) sense of concern for ownership and the rights >of the original authors to not have their work used without giving explicit >permission. IF the _author_ wants to take what they wrote and contribute >an article ... say a "howto" on some subject or another, FANTASTIC! :) That >is what we would like to see happen *if* the Wiki gets off the ground. > >Finally, it is our thinking that a Wiki would serve a very different >purpose than the existing forums. We currently have forums in which there >is a dialog between members (the Matronics lists, the Yahoo groups, the >forums on Doug Reeves' site, RivetBangers.com, and others). Each of these >venues allow you to pull up information ... and tends to deliver it in >the form of a "narative", where you get the list of e-mail/messages on >the topic you select, and can scan through them in order pulling out what >you want or need. > >Alternatively, the main part of Doug Reeves' site is more a news and events >outlet. This is yet another way to gather and distribute information. In >this case it (somewhat) filters through an editor who helps condense things >into a nicely packaged, continually updated, list of "articles" which get >posted. > >We don't intend the Wiki to be a be a discussion forum. The Wiki technology >isn't even well suited to that task. We don't intend the Wiki to be a news >outlet either. In short the goal of the Wiki would be to allow us all to >cooperatively gather knowledge about the building, maintaining, and flying >of RVs. There will be areas of interest, and articles written in those >areas by folks who volunteer to share their experiences. So rather than >being a "narative", it will be more an evolving "encyclopedia" of RV (and >maybe in a more general sense, homebuilding) knowledge. The structure of >the site can evolve as better ways to organize it are identified. In fact >YOU (each of you) can participate, contribute, and modify the site at will. > >It is felt that something like a Wiki would actually be a good _compliment_ >for all of the existing forums ... a subject we can talk about more if folks >are intersted. > >We see this as fitting into a niche that is different from the existing >forums and venues. Will it fly? (Pun intended.) Who knows? We are tempted >to throw it up and just see. In fact, I start to get tempted to throw >the Wiki up but .. for now .. have it be oriented toward just collecting >information and making plans for the Wiki itself. People with suggestions >can come there and post their thoughts. > >Anyway ... this has gotten longer than I intended, so I'll wrap it up here. >If you are interested in the Wiki (or just think you might be), drop me >a line off-list and lets talk. As news becomes worth sharing, we'll post >it here (and likely elsewhere too). > > -- Dwight > Sorry Dwight; I think this startup stuff really should be archived. My request: I hope that when you go live, it will remain truly open like the list, but with better organized info like Wikipedia. Thanks for your efforts. I think that this could be a giant step forward for the homebuilding community. Charlie (most adept at using others' ideas) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:43 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin Screw --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Lucky Use AN519C-10R8 screws (aka MS24694C-10R8). I got mine from ACS. See http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/ms24694.php The screws are not supposed to be completely flush. The rack is made slightly wider than necessary. This allows the radio to be installed & removed with ease. Those slightly protruding screw heads act as spacers to help "center" the radio in your tray. They prevent the face of the radio from moving side to side to much. These worked great on my Icom A200 and my RMI MicroMonitor as well. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > >My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the >flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around >town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. > >One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and >asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as >heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have >gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws >had to be purchases separately. > >Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can >I order them from? > >thanks, >lucky > >My Garmin transponder I ordered from Stark didn't come with any of the >flush screws needed inside the tray. I wasted over an hour running around >town trying to find machine screws that would lay flush in there to no avail. > >One Old Timer hardware store guy said they must be "special" screws and >asked me twice if it wasn't from china. Well special or not they sure as >heck weren't findable in this town and it would have been nice to have >gotten them with the tray or at least been told that the "special" screws >had to be purchases separately. > >Anyone know just what the heck kind of screw I need to ask for and who can >I order them from? > >thanks, >lucky > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:43 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Charlie England wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > >Dwight Frye wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye >> >>On Sat Mar 19 00:38:26 2005, j1j2h3@juno.com wrote : >> >> >> >> >>>Please add my vote to those in favor of this project. I am not a computer >>>guru but would be pleased to aid in entering data from previous Matronics >>>postings. >>>[ ... snip ... ] >>>I think this thread should be kept on the RV-list for a while, or at least >>>a progress report listed periodically to help gauge and build interest. >>>Perhaps Matronics would consider running it on their site as a supplement >>>to their lists. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Jim (and anyone else who is interested), >> >>There are a few of us talking about pulling together a Wiki off-list. The >> >> >>*snip* >> >>Anyway ... this has gotten longer than I intended, so I'll wrap it up here. >>If you are interested in the Wiki (or just think you might be), drop me >>a line off-list and lets talk. As news becomes worth sharing, we'll post >>it here (and likely elsewhere too). >> >> -- Dwight >> >> >> > >Sorry Dwight; I think this startup stuff really should be archived. > > > Sorry Charlie, I think Dwight was right in not archiving it. Something of this nature does not need to clutter up Matts archive files. IMO. do not archive. Jerry ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:18 PM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye On Sat Mar 19 16:01:52 2005, Charlie England wrote : >Sorry Dwight; I think this startup stuff really should be archived. > >My request: I hope that when you go live, it will remain truly open like >the list, but with better organized info like Wikipedia. > >Thanks for your efforts. I think that this could be a giant step forward >for the homebuilding community. Well, I'm trying to be careful here and not cause anyone grief, which is why I'm trying to be careful with my 'do not archive'. I can see both views (archive vs not archive) and am tending to the conservative end of the spectrum. I see the startup discussion as somewhat of a "meta discussion" and not _directly_ relevent to RV building itself. Clearly, someone can opt to archive it if they wish (which you did) and I have no opinion about that beyond my own feelings about *me* choosing to archive. So ... enough about archiving ...... and since you comment on-list, I will respond on-list. Speaking to the other point you make, I tend to agree that it *could* be a real asset to the community (else I would not be willing to take a little time away from riveting and other important life activities). Whether it really *does* become valuable will depend upon the RV community itself. If folks contribute their knowledge ... it could be great. If not, well ... we can always turn it off again. :) As far as policies goes, they are still forming (and will likely continue to form for a long time to come after we have put the thing online). At this point I very much intend it to be open, like the list, but with an eye toward being organized much *like* Wikipedia. In fact, I am looking at that project as a template for what I would like to see done with the RVWiki. Anyone can participate. Everyone is welcome (invited!) to share their knowledge. The goal will be to try and create as authoratative a source of information as possible ... with the idea in mind that with enough eyeballs on the material any mistake or problem will eventually get found. I also realize that often .. maybe always .. there are more than one way to skin a cat. Unlike a real encyclopedia which is essentially just relating facts (reality might not match that ideal, but I think that is the ideal), we will be capturing more than just dry facts. We will be capturing techniques for solving problems and approaches to fabricating parts of aircraft. There *will* be differing opinions and techniques, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. Capturing that sort of variety and still have it well organized is going to be, I think, one of the biggest challenges. I sollicit opinions from everyone on ways to handle that. Someone (in an off-list e-mail) likened the Wiki to a on-line, continually updated, highly-accessable version of the 24 Years of the RVAtor. Not so much that it will replicate that publication ... but that it will capture knowledge in the form of articles and that it will serve a similar role for newcomers. I like that idea. -- Dwight do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:15 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RV-List: Flying through a mountain --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" A relative sent me this today. I think there should be something added, like "Don't try this at home." http://www.haute-voltige.com/inter/videos/videos.htm Terry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:36 PM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Tires, how to get stem out of wheel --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" First time Ive changed this kind of tire. whats the time honored method of getting the tube stem out of wheel grommet? charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:37 PM PST US From: gert Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint --> RV-List message posted by: gert I'll jump right in line here, after seeing Jeff's result I went the same route.. .. I lost count of the times I dropped a screwdriver or wrench on it. a nut or a bolt...... And of course my kids climing in and out.......oh yeah their nicknames are the Mud Twins,,, Paint's holding up great. gert Jeff Point wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > >I'll second the SW Sunfire paint. I painted the interior as soon as the >structure of the "canoe" was done. It held up very well over the next >year of climbing in and out 10,000 times, dropping tools, etc. Mix it >1:1 with the flattening base (10% gloss) and add the hardener as well. >And it's usually available locally. > >Jeff Point >RV-6 >Milwaukee WI > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:29 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire wear problem resolution --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 03/19/2005 11:51:07 AM Central Standard Time, luckymacy@comcast.net writes: forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, in the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this chart where the condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of extra tire weight. That's heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! >>>> Hi Lucky- I remember seeing the article, but didn't notice the weight difference- I thought 17.9 sounded pretty hard to believe, so I commandeered the wifs ultra-accurate cooking scale and loaded it up with an Air Hawk (kit supplied) that came off my -6A at 100 hours. It still has a bit over 1/8" grooves left (the one that wore evenly from the right side- the left was bald on the outside, hence the switch to Condors/Airstops) and even with the original tube still in the tire, it only weighed 5 lbs, 11 oz. Looks like they were either lying or just pulled a fat-finger in the article? From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips N51PW, 153 hrs ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:16 PM PST US From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: RV-List: wing incidence --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" List: Just trying to plan ahead here.....What is the maximum that you can actually adjust/set the incidence on a 6/6A wing? A full degree?? Half a degree?? It seems that with the fit of the spars to the fuselage bulkhead that there would be very little room for making any significant change in the incidence of the wing. If you need to change the incidence to any degree, you will have to put quite a bit of force on the aft edge of the wing to get any movement back there, thus really putting a heavy shear load on that one poor bolt in the rear spar. I don't have my wings installed yet, so I am just speculating here. Am I concerned over nothing?? Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P (reserved) Finishing up firewall forward Peshtigo, WI