Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: wing incidence (Ed Anderson)
2. 05:35 AM - Panel Database (Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) ()
4. 07:08 AM - Echo in head sets with 2 ANR plugged in (Charles Heathco)
5. 07:30 AM - Re: RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) (Dwight Frye)
6. 08:32 AM - Suprisingly good bug juice cleaner (Charles Heathco)
7. 09:22 AM - Ignition wire clamps (Steve Struyk)
8. 09:43 AM - Re: Ignition wire clamps (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
9. 11:00 AM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (HCRV6@aol.com)
10. 11:16 AM - Greasy flap motors, cont'd (HCRV6@aol.com)
11. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: interior paint (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
12. 11:43 AM - Whirlwind propellers (jonweisw)
13. 12:11 PM - Central American Trip with RV-6A (LML Klingmuller)
14. 12:26 PM - Central American Trip with RV-6A (LML Klingmuller)
15. 01:04 PM - Re: Whirlwind propellers (Randy Lervold)
16. 01:22 PM - Re: Whirlwind propellers (Konrad L. Werner)
17. 01:23 PM - RVwiki (Jim Duckett)
18. 01:59 PM - Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP (Dean Pichon)
19. 02:23 PM - Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP (Charles Heathco)
20. 02:54 PM - Adventures in Priming--long ramble (MLWynn@aol.com)
21. 03:09 PM - Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP (Doug Weiler)
22. 03:15 PM - Re: RVwiki (Dwight Frye)
23. 03:27 PM - Re: Whirlwind propellers ()
24. 03:31 PM - Re: Whirlwind propellers (Randy Lervold)
25. 03:55 PM - Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP (Randy Lervold)
26. 04:07 PM - Re: Whirlwind propellers (Konrad L. Werner)
27. 04:23 PM - Re: Ignition wire clamps (Vanremog@aol.com)
28. 04:35 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
29. 04:58 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Scott VanArtsdalen)
30. 05:29 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Jerry Springer)
31. 05:41 PM - Re: wing incidence (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
32. 05:41 PM - flap motor repair tip (Tom Barnes)
33. 05:41 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
34. 05:44 PM - Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP (Doug Weiler)
35. 06:05 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Jeff Point)
36. 06:05 PM - Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
37. 06:11 PM - Re: flap motor repair tip (Ken Sebok)
38. 06:22 PM - cockpit noise abatement? (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
39. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) ()
40. 06:38 PM - Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) (Dwight Frye)
41. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) (Jerry Grimmonpre)
42. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) (Bob C.)
43. 06:45 PM - Re: flap motor repair tip (John Furey)
44. 06:48 PM - Re: Tire wear problem resolution (Bob 1)
45. 07:02 PM - Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.)) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
46. 07:08 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Stein Bruch)
47. 07:23 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Vanremog@aol.com)
48. 07:47 PM - Failure on Motion Control actuators used on Experimental Aircraft flaps (Vanremog@aol.com)
49. 08:18 PM - Whelan Wingtip Strobe Cover Removable? ()
50. 08:19 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Jeff Point)
51. 08:31 PM - Re: wing incidence (David Carter)
52. 09:42 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Stein Bruch)
53. 09:44 PM - Re: Whelan Wingtip Strobe Cover Removable? (Vanremog@aol.com)
54. 10:38 PM - Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd (Edward Cole)
55. 11:06 PM - Re: Ignition wire clamps (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wing incidence |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Don't know the maximum amount, But my wing has 1/2 deg more than the specs.
Had to do that to meet the material edge specifications for the rear spar
bolt - did not have any problem with forcing the wing to assume the position
for the rear bolt, actually no force required. I don't think a degree would
have placed excessive pre load on the bolt either - but that is just an
opinion. Of course, I also had to increase the incident of the horizontal
stabilizer by 1/2 deg to match.
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: wing incidence
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> List:
>
> Just trying to plan ahead here.....What is the maximum that you can
actually adjust/set the incidence on a 6/6A wing? A full degree?? Half a
degree?? It seems that with the fit of the spars to the fuselage bulkhead
that there would be very little room for making any significant change in
the incidence of the wing.
>
> If you need to change the incidence to any degree, you will have to put
quite a bit of force on the aft edge of the wing to get any movement back
there, thus really putting a heavy shear load on that one poor bolt in the
rear spar.
>
> I don't have my wings installed yet, so I am just speculating here. Am I
concerned over nothing??
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A N782P (reserved)
> Finishing up firewall forward
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel@ictransnet.com>
Does anyone know of an Autocad compatible database for panel design.
Roger
Message 3
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| Subject: | Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) |
--> RV-List message posted by: <flynlow@usaviator.net>
What is a wiki?
>>If you are interested in the Wiki........
Message 4
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| Subject: | Echo in head sets with 2 ANR plugged in |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
I noticed this problem a while back, but didnt tie it to the condition until second
time it was a factor. If Im alone, or psgr has non ANR headset, no problem.
Two ANR headsets and get a feedback type of echo when comm with each other.
I have a mono flight com 403. I think it is suspect and wondered if anyone else
had this problem.
Would an upgrade to say a sterio PS enginering eliminate this problem? charlie
heathco
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, Etc.) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
On Sun Mar 20 10:06:39 2005, flynlow@usaviator.net wrote :
>What is a wiki?
Imagine a big "whiteboard" on the Internet, where anyone can walk up
and write anything they want. In this case it is a web site where there
is an infinate supply of new whiteboards that people can take and write
on. Each "whiteboard" is actually a webpage on the Wiki website.
So, just for instance ....
Imagine you have come up with a new great way to install wingtips, and you
think it would be good to share with the RV community. You go to the Wiki,
look around at the existing collection of pages and decide where you want
to start to scribble. Maybe there exists one already that is suitable, or
maybe you need a fresh page of your own.
If you can add your new technique to an existing page (say one where
some other person shared THEIR wingtip installation technique) you just
go to that page and click on the "edit" link. You get an edit page and
can just start typing.
If you need a fresh page of your own (in the case, for instance, that
nobody has thought that installing wingtips was worthy of discussion)
you find an existing page where you can first mention your new topic
.... say on the front page under an existing list of RV contsruction
techniques .... and inject a reference to your new (nonexistant) page
there.
When you do that, you insert a link ... which will be displayed in a
slightly different manner because the page does not exist. When you
click on that link it automatically takes you to an edit page, and
you can then start to write your article on how to install wingtips
better than anyone has ever installed them before.
In short ... you go to the site, find where you want to add material,
and click-n-edit. When you save what you wrote, it gets stored and
anyone can then read it.
What if you are reading someone else's article, and discover a huge
error? Click on the "edit" link and fix it. What if someone finds an
error in something you wrote ... they can "edit" and fix it too.
It sounds like anarchy, and can be if "rules of the road" are not
defined and followed. This group collaboration approach to capturing
information and creating content works, in practice, surprisingly
well. Everyone adds content. Everyone plays "housekeeper" (adding
links, cleaning up messes, etc.) on the wiki.
A fella named Ward Cunningham started the first Wiki. The idea was so
compelling that there have been a huge number of people making their own
implementations .... with the MediaWiki being one of the latest (and
the one that supports the WikiPedia, http://www.wikipedia.org/).
Yeah ... it sounds weird. It is, in a way, weird. It counts on the
good will of the community, and a willingness of folks to "play nice
together". If that happens, a tremendous resource is created. If not
... well ... we know what happens to sites that go stale. It'll really
be up to the RV builder community to determine what happens in the
long run.
Questions are welcome. Go Google on the term "wiki" and you'll find
a bazillion hits. Roam around and see what other folks have done to
get a sense of what we could do if we wish. Wikipedia is one great
example, but there are many others. Don't hesitate to shoot your
thoughts, or your questions, my way.
-- Dwight
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Suprisingly good bug juice cleaner |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
I dont think i posted this, I got the tip on another group chat, fellow acidently
stumbled on to it. Baby Wipes. He says will clean off the belly as well. I
got a little box and tried it on the dried bug juice, took it right off. charlie
heathco
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ignition wire clamps |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
Anybody know where to get ignition wire clamps for two leads? I've seen them on
production airplanes so I know they are available. The archives had a hit, but
the link is dead.
Thanks in advance.
Steve Struyk
RV-8, N842S (Res.)
St. Charles, MO
90% done...90% to go!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition wire clamps |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
yes. follow this link
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html
and search
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk"
>
> Anybody know where to get ignition wire clamps for two leads? I've seen them
on
> production airplanes so I know they are available. The archives had a hit, but
> the link is dead.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Steve Struyk
> RV-8, N842S (Res.)
> St. Charles, MO
> 90% done...90% to go!
>
>
>
>
>
>
yes. follow this link
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html
and search
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <RV8STRIKER@HOTMAIL.COM>
Anybody know where to get ignition wire clamps for two leads? I've seen them on
production airplanes so I know they are available. The archives had a hit, but
the link is dead.
Thanks in advance.
Steve Struyk
RV-8, N842S (Res.)
St. Charles, MO
90% done...90% to go!
========================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tire wear problem resolution |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 3/19/05 9:51:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
luckymacy@comcast.net writes:
<< forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far, in
the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this chart where the
condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of extra tire weight. That's
heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! >>
FWIW, my guess is that the 17.9 pounds is a typo, probably should be 7.9
judging by the similar size AirTrac. If you compare the diameter to the others,
the AirHawk would have to use lead in the rubber to weigh that much.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Just another data point in the saga of the greasy flap motors. My flap motor
quit at 47.4 hours. I had hoped I was safe from the cursed greasy motor
syndrome but no such luck. When I disassembled the motor I could not believe the
amount of gear grease that was packed in there. It looked to me as if whoever
assembled the unit packed grease in the motor instead of in the gear case.
TIP: Trim two short lengths of twist tie (from the produce aisle) so that they
are narrow enough to wrap around the arms of the horseshoe shaped brush
holder to hold the brush springs back. That way the brushes stay in place and
reassembly is much easier.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: interior paint |
--> RV-List message posted by:
FWIW - I decided to prime everything - stopped alodining as it is overkill
in my environment. As for priming (Intergard 90 - PPG - Strontium Chromate 2
component epoxy primer) the rule is if you are going to paint over it, do it
within 24 hrs otherwise if you wait too long, you have to scuff the old
primer, apply another coat of primer and then paint.
Given this scenario, I prime hidden surfaces now (inside of wing skins,
ribs, etc.) and on the fuselage parts, I prime the side which will not be
painted (underside of floor, hidden sides of panels...). When I decide to
prime I'll prime first and paint right afterwards. This takes a little
planning and investigation by looking ahead in the plans which is very
positive. I get to know things better this way.
Michle
RV8 - Wings
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 4:36 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: interior paint
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> I'll suggest another alternative. I painted all of the little pieces and
> parts that I knew I wouldn't be able to reach once they were riveted on.
> Later, after the fuselage was all riveted together, I went back and
> painted everything inside. This worked out really well as all the hard to
> paint places were already painted, I just needed to hit the big flat
> surfaces. I would also suggest waiting as long as possible to paint....
> right before the wiring process people are suggesting is a good idea.
> You'll be in and out of the fuselage a lot.
>
> Matthew
> RV-9A Finsish Kit
> www.n523rv.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
The link is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
Thanks,
Jon Weiswasser
N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
100h
Message 13
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| Subject: | Central American Trip with RV-6A |
0.00 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
For the benefit of those in the RV community who have completed their airplane
and those who are currently building and are dreaming about places to fly, I have
summarized my concerns, flight planning and pertinent data of our February
2005 trip from Denver. CO to Managua, Nicaragua.
I would have liked to have included some of the great aerial photos of this very
interesting, unusable and enjoyable trip. However, I lack the know-how of
setting up a web site.
Equipment:
"Stock" RV-6A, new O-360 1A1; original had the Lasar ignition system, now regular
Slick mags (post coming up), fixed pitch prop, night VFR with gyros, Navaid
autopilot, hand-held GPS (Garmin 195), now 495 total time.
Trip statistics:
1) GPS distance flown: 5110 nmls (includes one 100 nmls local flight in Guatemala)
= 5880 st mls [equals great circle distance from Denver to Athens,
Greece; or Denver to Point Barrow, North Slope, Alaska round trip ]
2) Trip tach hours: 34.0 (I cruise at 2450 rpm: 1 tach hr = 1 clock
hr)
3) Total fuel burned: 298 gl at average cost of $ 2.88/gl (includes a $6.50
fuel navigation fees levied each fueling in Mexico)
4) Total fees for permits, landing, parking etc : $297.- for a total out of pocket
airplane cost of $1,211.-
5) Landed at 15 different airports
Preflight Planning/Permits/Fees
Forget about contacting either AOPA or EAA about experimental airplanes and flying south of the border! AOPA gave me verbally incorrect information. Helpful advice can be obtained from Baja Bush Pilots (www.bajabushpilots.com). They sell an airport directory for Mexican airports. Because of its bulk and weight, I did not purchase one.
The best practical advise I received was from fellow pilots of the Colorado Pilots
Association ( CPA) who had been in Central America in the last couple of
years. I did have a lot of questions and concerns about permits etc.
The most useful advise I received and followed: Set up a binder containing copies
of all airplane-related documents such as pilot's license and medical, registration,
airworthiness certificate, and insurance policy (see comment below).
These documents are a must have. I even included weight and balance and a
picture of the airplane.
AOPA's real flight planner was very helpful for the initial and overview planning.
A) Entering Mexico: No prior permits are required to fly into Mexico. Just file
a flight plan in the USA or from Central America. if you are coming back
You may receive a squawk code. Confirm the approach or tower frequency for the
port of entry (POE). You can fly way past the international border as long
the first airport is a POE. I used the listing of the Pilot Express Directory
to check if a specific airport is a POE. This listing came in handy, as my return
flight plan changed.
Mexico requires that you have liability insurance. Because of recent Mexican changes,
it is no longer a requirement to purchase liability insurance from a
Mexican company, as long your US insurance company states that you are covered
in Mexico. I have my insurance with AIG ('JT' Holmes, agent for Nation Air).
My policy specifically states " ...political boundaries of the United States
of America, Mexico, Central America, Canada. the Islands of the West Indies
(excluding Cuba) and while en route between places therein" . I choose not to
buy extra insurance. Just prior to my departure I had the bright idea to get
something written in Spanish, as some Mexican custom officials do not read or
speak English.'JT' e-mailed me a cover letter both in English and Spanish stating
the specific pages where it states that my policies covers Mexico. A copy
of this cover letter plus the two main pages of the policy including the page
stating the countries/region covered was extremely
helpful to get the permits. Thanks are due to 'JT' for a speedy reply!
Now Mexico will issue a multiple entry permit, good for the calendar year applied
for. Insist of in, if you plan to fly more than one time to Mexico. It costs
the same (502 pesos ~ $45.-) as the single entry permit. Now in my case
I did had to buy two of these permits, as the one issued in Tampico, my initial
POE, states "..multiple entries in 2005 FROM the United States of America.."
After waiting for almost four hours to get this permit, I did not realize this
discrepancy until the return trip. Yes, I had to buy an other permit coming
from Guatemala because of the restrictive wording. I really do not know, if
one will be able to get one permit stating to enter Mexico "...dese Estados
Unides De America o Centro America" ! By the way, I had to show these permits
at every airport. Yes, the Mexican are very bureaucratic and like their paperwork!!
B) IN Mexico: There is now a new fixed Navigation fee levied every time you buy
fuel. 100 gl or 1 gl, it is 70 pesos (~$6.30), This fee depends on the wing
span. The RV ended up in the BE 35 category, which has wingspan less than
10 meters.
At all airports there is a charge for parking, landing, or misc. Not much (between
$6.85 including 2 days parking to $16.45 incl. 3 day parking) , but time
consuming paperwork. Pay in pesos, and save ~10% =/-. Most fuel can be paid
with a credit card, but they will charge an additional 4% for Visa or MC. American
Express seems to be the preferred cards for fuel charges.
C) Leaving Mexico: You must leave Mexico from a POE. Flying to Guatemala we filled
up in Tuxlan [MMTG], which is not a POE. So we had to make an other stop
in Tapachula [MMTP]. On the return trip we did fuel and checked out in Guaymas,
the most efficient fuel/flightplan filing/paperstuff airport we landed in
all of Mexico
Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua
Advanced permission, usually 24 hrs,are needed to land or overfly Central American
countries. Either fax or (?) phone the DGAC (Dereccion General de Aeronautical
Civil). Fax seems to work best particularly if you have a fax number
for a reply. Baja Pilot Association has a list for these numbers. If you get
a reply, you will get an authorization number. Since I joined a group of 5 CPA
planes in Guatemala City [MGGT] one batch request was send for all 6 planes
to the three countries. The request contained the following information: 1) date
of landing or overflight (use a window date or 'about') 2) departure airport
(give two or more if not sure), 3) POE, 4) Aircraft type {Experimental RV-6A}
and registration or N number, 4) Pilot's name and license number, 5) copilots
name and license number or passenger name and citizenship, and purpose of
flight (tourism).
In Guatemala we needed a permit for a local flight. If I remember correctly it
was free, but needed the permit number for the flight plan.
Fuel and Fees
All 11airports south of the border I landed, had 100/130 fuel. Prices varied between
$2.75 to $5.00/gl. The trip average including US was $2.88/gl The highest
was paid in US cash and with a prearrangement in Managua [MN MG]. Interestingly
in Guatemala they use gallons, all other places it is liters.
Landing, parking (even at customs while checking in or out), navigation and or
other fees are collected the all airports with control towers. These fees ranged
between $6.85 for 2 days parking and landing fees (P0za Rica, MX [MMTP])
to $85.50 for 8 days of parking plus fees(Managua, Nicaragua [MNMG]).
Since we arrived and departed from [MNMG] as a group, we decided on using a handler
which charged each airplane $56.57, a rip off in my books. Talking about
handlers, these are paid companies who handle all the paperwork (immigration,
customs, flight planning, fees etc) at airports. Corporate pilots/owner like
to use them to avoid personal hassle of the paper war. With a little patience,
a smile, and a few Spanish words you do not need a handler!
Communication, Flight Plans and Navigation
All controllers spoke English. Some better than others, but always understandable.
I always read frequencies etc back which where answered with "correct".
For me it looks like each controlled airport is like a little empire. When
leaving one controlled airport they advise on the frequency for the next airport,
even it this airport is 200 nmls away. My impression was that most airports
in Mexico did not have radar. The best communication/English and radar cover
was over El Salvador.
Since the entire flight was VFR, I did not follow airways. It worked great as
I told the controllers I was on a VFR flight.
Flight plans are required when leaving from a controlled airport. First you close
and then file if there is no overnight stay. Pay your fees either on arrival
and departure or both times. Ask for weather forecasts or current conditions
of your route. At one place the regular system was down so they called up
the tower who then called up at destination for weather info. At other places
they used the Weather Channel, NASA's site, or other commercial sites in order
to get the big picture.
I used a handheld moving map GPS (Garmin 195) and ONC charts for back up/following.
The GPS had all the frequencies, airport data etc. This was one of my big
worries, as the ONC charts do not have any airport information except field
elevation. The ONC charts are really outdated but serve as a vital backup for
big picture: elevations, rivers, coast lines, lakes etc.. NOTE: It is important
that you cut up and prepare these charts prior to your flight!!!
General Comment /Advice
It is not as convenient to fly south of the border as it is to fly here in the
States, BUT the air is the same and the scenery and people are tremendous, different,
and friendly! Once you have mastered that you are not in the States,
speak a couple of Spanish words (si, no, por favor -> is almost enough), and
realize that you are a visitor, you can have a lot of fun. If you stay away from
the big tourist places, prices are lower, since prices in general at not so
favorable any more than a couple of decades ago..
>> bring long enough tie down ropes, as tie down rings are for BIG planes
>> bring chokes, as some airports do not have tie down rings (leaving your parking
brakes on for a long period could bust the brake seals due to heat expansion)
>> the jury is still out about to cover your plane. I did so in Managua for a
week only to discover that dust got UNDER the tarp. The constant wind than did
some rubbing slightly dulling some spots on the cover. A cover certainly keeps
the inside cooler, possible discourages unwanted entry etc.
In summary, I had no problems flying my RVdown south and my advise: .. ..expand
your horizon and fly south!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Central American Trip with RV-6A |
0.00 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
For the benefit of those in the RV community who have completed their airplane
and those who are currently building and are dreaming about places to fly, I have
summarized my concerns, flight planning and pertinent data of our February
2005 trip from Denver. CO to Managua, Nicaragua.
I would have liked to have included some of the great aerial photos of this very
interesting, unusable and enjoyable trip. However, I lack the know-how of
setting up a web site.
Equipment:
"Stock" RV-6A, new O-360 1A1; original had the Lasar ignition system, now regular
Slick mags (post coming up), fixed pitch prop, night VFR with gyros, Navaid
autopilot, hand-held GPS (Garmin 195), now 495 total time.
Trip statistics:
1) GPS distance flown: 5110 nmls (includes one 100 nmls local flight in Guatemala)
= 5880 st mls [equals great circle distance from Denver to Athens,
Greece; or Denver to Point Barrow, North Slope, Alaska round trip ]
2) Trip tach hours: 34.0 (I cruise at 2450 rpm: 1 tach hr = 1 clock
hr)
3) Total fuel burned: 298 gl at average cost of $ 2.88/gl (includes a $6.50
fuel navigation fees levied each fueling in Mexico)
4) Total fees for permits, landing, parking etc : $297.- for a total out of pocket
airplane cost of $1,211.-
5) Landed at 15 different airports
Preflight Planning/Permits/Fees
Forget about contacting either AOPA or EAA about experimental airplanes and flying south of the border! AOPA gave me verbally incorrect information. Helpful advice can be obtained from Baja Bush Pilots (www.bajabushpilots.com). They sell an airport directory for Mexican airports. Because of its bulk and weight, I did not purchase one.
The best practical advise I received was from fellow pilots of the Colorado Pilots
Association ( CPA) who had been in Central America in the last couple of
years. I did have a lot of questions and concerns about permits etc.
The most useful advise I received and followed: Set up a binder containing copies
of all airplane-related documents such as pilot's license and medical, registration,
airworthiness certificate, and insurance policy (see comment below).
These documents are a must have. I even included weight and balance and a
picture of the airplane.
AOPA's real flight planner was very helpful for the initial and overview planning.
A) Entering Mexico: No prior permits are required to fly into Mexico. Just file
a flight plan in the USA or from Central America. if you are coming back
You may receive a squawk code. Confirm the approach or tower frequency for the
port of entry (POE). You can fly way past the international border as long
the first airport is a POE. I used the listing of the Pilot Express Directory
to check if a specific airport is a POE. This listing came in handy, as my return
flight plan changed.
Mexico requires that you have liability insurance. Because of recent Mexican changes,
it is no longer a requirement to purchase liability insurance from a
Mexican company, as long your US insurance company states that you are covered
in Mexico. I have my insurance with AIG ('JT' Holmes, agent for Nation Air).
My policy specifically states " ...political boundaries of the United States
of America, Mexico, Central America, Canada. the Islands of the West Indies
(excluding Cuba) and while en route between places therein" . I choose not to
buy extra insurance. Just prior to my departure I had the bright idea to get
something written in Spanish, as some Mexican custom officials do not read or
speak English.'JT' e-mailed me a cover letter both in English and Spanish stating
the specific pages where it states that my policies covers Mexico. A copy
of this cover letter plus the two main pages of the policy including the page
stating the countries/region covered was extremely
helpful to get the permits. Thanks are due to 'JT' for a speedy reply!
Now Mexico will issue a multiple entry permit, good for the calendar year applied
for. Insist of in, if you plan to fly more than one time to Mexico. It costs
the same (502 pesos ~ $45.-) as the single entry permit. Now in my case
I did had to buy two of these permits, as the one issued in Tampico, my initial
POE, states "..multiple entries in 2005 FROM the United States of America.."
After waiting for almost four hours to get this permit, I did not realize this
discrepancy until the return trip. Yes, I had to buy an other permit coming
from Guatemala because of the restrictive wording. I really do not know, if
one will be able to get one permit stating to enter Mexico "...dese Estados
Unides De America o Centro America" ! By the way, I had to show these permits
at every airport. Yes, the Mexican are very bureaucratic and like their paperwork!!
B) IN Mexico: There is now a new fixed Navigation fee levied every time you buy
fuel. 100 gl or 1 gl, it is 70 pesos (~$6.30), This fee depends on the wing
span. The RV ended up in the BE 35 category, which has wingspan less than
10 meters.
At all airports there is a charge for parking, landing, or misc. Not much (between
$6.85 including 2 days parking to $16.45 incl. 3 day parking) , but time
consuming paperwork. Pay in pesos, and save ~10% =/-. Most fuel can be paid
with a credit card, but they will charge an additional 4% for Visa or MC. American
Express seems to be the preferred cards for fuel charges.
C) Leaving Mexico: You must leave Mexico from a POE. Flying to Guatemala we filled
up in Tuxlan [MMTG], which is not a POE. So we had to make an other stop
in Tapachula [MMTP]. On the return trip we did fuel and checked out in Guaymas,
the most efficient fuel/flightplan filing/paperstuff airport we landed in
all of Mexico
Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua
Advanced permission, usually 24 hrs,are needed to land or overfly Central American
countries. Either fax or (?) phone the DGAC (Dereccion General de Aeronautical
Civil). Fax seems to work best particularly if you have a fax number
for a reply. Baja Pilot Association has a list for these numbers. If you get
a reply, you will get an authorization number. Since I joined a group of 5 CPA
planes in Guatemala City [MGGT] one batch request was send for all 6 planes
to the three countries. The request contained the following information: 1) date
of landing or overflight (use a window date or 'about') 2) departure airport
(give two or more if not sure), 3) POE, 4) Aircraft type {Experimental RV-6A}
and registration or N number, 4) Pilot's name and license number, 5) copilots
name and license number or passenger name and citizenship, and purpose of
flight (tourism).
In Guatemala we needed a permit for a local flight. If I remember correctly it
was free, but needed the permit number for the flight plan.
Fuel and Fees
All 11airports south of the border I landed, had 100/130 fuel. Prices varied between
$2.75 to $5.00/gl. The trip average including US was $2.88/gl The highest
was paid in US cash and with a prearrangement in Managua [MN MG]. Interestingly
in Guatemala they use gallons, all other places it is liters.
Landing, parking (even at customs while checking in or out), navigation and or
other fees are collected the all airports with control towers. These fees ranged
between $6.85 for 2 days parking and landing fees (P0za Rica, MX [MMTP])
to $85.50 for 8 days of parking plus fees(Managua, Nicaragua [MNMG]).
Since we arrived and departed from [MNMG] as a group, we decided on using a handler
which charged each airplane $56.57, a rip off in my books. Talking about
handlers, these are paid companies who handle all the paperwork (immigration,
customs, flight planning, fees etc) at airports. Corporate pilots/owner like
to use them to avoid personal hassle of the paper war. With a little patience,
a smile, and a few Spanish words you do not need a handler!
Communication, Flight Plans and Navigation
All controllers spoke English. Some better than others, but always understandable.
I always read frequencies etc back which where answered with "correct".
For me it looks like each controlled airport is like a little empire. When
leaving one controlled airport they advise on the frequency for the next airport,
even it this airport is 200 nmls away. My impression was that most airports
in Mexico did not have radar. The best communication/English and radar cover
was over El Salvador.
Since the entire flight was VFR, I did not follow airways. It worked great as
I told the controllers I was on a VFR flight.
Flight plans are required when leaving from a controlled airport. First you close
and then file if there is no overnight stay. Pay your fees either on arrival
and departure or both times. Ask for weather forecasts or current conditions
of your route. At one place the regular system was down so they called up
the tower who then called up at destination for weather info. At other places
they used the Weather Channel, NASA's site, or other commercial sites in order
to get the big picture.
I used a handheld moving map GPS (Garmin 195) and ONC charts for back up/following.
The GPS had all the frequencies, airport data etc. This was one of my big
worries, as the ONC charts do not have any airport information except field
elevation. The ONC charts are really outdated but serve as a vital backup for
big picture: elevations, rivers, coast lines, lakes etc.. NOTE: It is important
that you cut up and prepare these charts prior to your flight!!!
General Comment /Advice
It is not as convenient to fly south of the border as it is to fly here in the
States, BUT the air is the same and the scenery and people are tremendous, different,
and friendly! Once you have mastered that you are not in the States,
speak a couple of Spanish words (si, no, por favor -> is almost enough), and
realize that you are a visitor, you can have a lot of fun. If you stay away from
the big tourist places, prices are lower, since prices in general at not so
favorable any more than a couple of decades ago..
>> bring long enough tie down ropes, as tie down rings are for BIG planes
>> bring chokes, as some airports do not have tie down rings (leaving your parking
brakes on for a long period could bust the brake seals due to heat expansion)
>> the jury is still out about to cover your plane. I did so in Managua for a
week only to discover that dust got UNDER the tarp. The constant wind than did
some rubbing slightly dulling some spots on the cover. A cover certainly keeps
the inside cooler, possible discourages unwanted entry etc.
In summary, I had no problems flying my RVdown south and my advise: .. ..expand
your horizon and fly south!
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Good idea Jon, I just joined it. Doug Reeves also has Propeller forum on his
new setup that we could utilize.
Is anyone concerned about the sale of Whirl Wind to new owners?
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonweisw" <jonweisw@rcn.com>
Subject: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
> --> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
>
> I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
> discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
>
> The link is:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon Weiswasser
> N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
> 100h
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Randy,
Who is the (proposed) new owner of WW-Props?
Konrad
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Lervold
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Good idea Jon, I just joined it. Doug Reeves also has Propeller forum on his
new setup that we could utilize.
Is anyone concerned about the sale of Whirl Wind to new owners?
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonweisw" <jonweisw@rcn.com>
To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
> --> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
>
> I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
> discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
>
> The link is:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon Weiswasser
> N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
> 100h
>
>
Message 17
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett <perfeng@3rivers.net>
Dwight as well as other interested Listers,
The wiki approach sounds great to me and in most user specific
communities it seems to work quite well. There have been many "Pro's"
made for its implementation but, the only "Con" I see is the "Play Nice"
and the suggested "Anyone Can Edit" option. I would like to propose
that if the edit option is left open to anyone, that the original or
edited text remain (in a different font or highlight) to indicate what
the original author wrote.
I'm not suggesting that years of experience or professional
qualifications need to be met in order for a person to author an entry
but, if this wiki is to be a reference type resource rather than a
discussion based forum, there needs to be some level of validity and
control in the information that is presented.
Although we don't like to admit it, there are some folks in the aircraft
building community that see no problem with using sub-standard, non
intended use products and components in their attempts to construct an
airplane. Nor do they seem to have any regular adherence to Standards
or Accepted Practices. I have seen and heard of builders going blindly
through their project with the attitude of " measure it with a Mic, mark
it with chalk, and cut it with a torch, and finish with who's gonna see
the mistakes when its airborne"? Others tend to be so frightened that
they seem to need confirmation on dimpling each hole or squeezing each
rivet.
I really don't think either of these types of postings will be a
problem but, from time to time I have seen a few bizarre suggestions
and recommendations on the List and with other Groups that qualify as
things that make you say... HUH?
I just don't want to see a reference site that suggests using house
paint for Alcad primer, using firewood to build jigs, or structural
fasteners that came from the orange big box store. IMHO the information
should at least mirror lessons learned from building under accepted
procedures and practices while using the proper materials and components.
I support your efforts and offer my assistance in making this a reality
in any way I can.
Jim Duckett
Do Not Archive
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
Hi All,
Yesterday, I had to scrub my mission of enjoying a beautiful, albeit late,
spring day. My EI fuel computer indicated no fuel flow as I went through my
usual procedure to start the IO-360 in my -4. Initially, I suspected the
flow transducer, but when the engine would not start, I decided the
transuducer may be OK.
I removed the cowl and removed the fuel line that feeds the Airflow
Performance (AP) fuel spider. Sure enough, no flow to the spider when I
turned on the boost pump. The pump however made "pumpng" noises and drew
2.5 to 3 amps.
I then removed the fuel line between the boost pump and the filter and found
good flow when I turned on the pump. Reviewing the AP manual shows a
check-valve that can re-circulate fuel if the discharge line does not allow
flow.
Since I was getting no flow to the engine, as opposed to reduced flow, I
suspected the fuel servo. I removed the line feeding the fuel servo and
found no flow when operating the boost pump. In my mind, I had now isolated
the blockage to either the fuel filter or the engine-driven fuel pump. The
EI fuel flow transducer is downstream from the fuel servo, so it cannot be
the culprit.
I next disassembled the AP fuel filter and found it to be clean. Removing
the fuel line from the discharge end of the filter confirmed flow. I then
removed the fuel line from the inlet side of the engine-driven fuel pump and
confirmed flow through everything between the boost pump and the line that
feeds the engine-driven pump.
Now, I'm stuck. For reasons unknown to me, I am not getting flow through
the engine driven pump. I would expect this (Lycoming) engine diaphragm
pump to fail "open" such that any failure mode would still allow flow to the
engine. Yet, the blockage appears to occur at the pump or the line on the
discharge side of the pump - which seems even less likely. At no time, am I
loosing fuel when I attempt to pump through the "blocked" system.
Have any Listers experienced similar problems with their aircraft? I am
dreading removing the pump as it is in such a difficult place to access. I
woulld like to be more certain the pump is the issue before I begin its
removal. Any help would be most appreciated. By the way, I flew the
aircraft the day before without incident.
Regards,
Dean Pichon
Bolton, MA
RV-4, 254 hours
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
Dean, I dont have a fuel flow meter, so not sure where the spider is, asume
it is someplace in the line between engine pump and carb? Unless you kill
your engine by shutting off fuel selector rather than pulling mixture, I
would think there should be enuff gas in the carb bowl to start it. I havent
heard of a fuel pump going bad while sitting overnight. charlie heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
Subject: RV-List: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
Hi All,
Yesterday, I had to scrub my mission of enjoying a beautiful, albeit late,
spring day. My EI fuel computer indicated no fuel flow as I went through my
usual procedure to start the IO-360 in my -4. Initially, I suspected the
flow transducer, but when the engine would not start, I decided the
transuducer may be OK.
I removed the cowl and removed the fuel line that feeds the Airflow
Performance (AP) fuel spider. Sure enough, no flow to the spider when I
turned on the boost pump. The pump however made "pumpng" noises and drew
2.5 to 3 amps.
I then removed the fuel line between the boost pump and the filter and found
good flow when I turned on the pump. Reviewing the AP manual shows a
check-valve that can re-circulate fuel if the discharge line does not allow
flow.
Since I was getting no flow to the engine, as opposed to reduced flow, I
suspected the fuel servo. I removed the line feeding the fuel servo and
found no flow when operating the boost pump. In my mind, I had now isolated
the blockage to either the fuel filter or the engine-driven fuel pump. The
EI fuel flow transducer is downstream from the fuel servo, so it cannot be
the culprit.
I next disassembled the AP fuel filter and found it to be clean. Removing
the fuel line from the discharge end of the filter confirmed flow. I then
removed the fuel line from the inlet side of the engine-driven fuel pump and
confirmed flow through everything between the boost pump and the line that
feeds the engine-driven pump.
Now, I'm stuck. For reasons unknown to me, I am not getting flow through
the engine driven pump. I would expect this (Lycoming) engine diaphragm
pump to fail "open" such that any failure mode would still allow flow to the
engine. Yet, the blockage appears to occur at the pump or the line on the
discharge side of the pump - which seems even less likely. At no time, am I
loosing fuel when I attempt to pump through the "blocked" system.
Have any Listers experienced similar problems with their aircraft? I am
dreading removing the pump as it is in such a difficult place to access. I
woulld like to be more certain the pump is the issue before I begin its
removal. Any help would be most appreciated. By the way, I flew the
aircraft the day before without incident.
Regards,
Dean Pichon
Bolton, MA
RV-4, 254 hours
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Adventures in Priming--long ramble |
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Well folks,
Took a long weekend to sort out the priming issue. This required a few hours
to do other projects. Built a pair of workbenches per the EAA chapter 100
plans. Worked very well. In my usual compulsive style, I spent too much time
finishing them and making them pretty. One is covered in heavy speaker cabinet
cloth so as to not scratch skins. The other is stained a nice red oak with a
dense oil finish. Easy to recoat when the surface gets too marred.
At any rate, I spend a bunch of hours scrubbing all the ribs and spars with
MEK and scotchbrite. This was followed by Alumiprep and then brush-on Alodine.
I did both of these treatments essentially out of a bucket. I think next
time I will build a little trough and just soak them. The alodine did not seem
to go on really evenly with the brush-on approach. Never-the-less, I got a
good covering over everything.
Today I primed using AKZO two part epoxy. On someone's recommendation, I got
a Sharpe cobalt gun with a 1.8 tip. Seemed to work exceptionally well. I
had never used a spray gun so it took me a while to sort out the knobs. My only
complaint is that the empennage parts are pretty small and so there was a
fair amount of overspray. Can anyone tell me it there is a way to decrease the
size of the fan? The gun did not come with instructions so I read here and
there and experimented. Maybe what I need is an airbrush for the small spots.
The AKZO dries very quickly. After about ten minutes, you can pick up the
pieces and inspect for misses. I was also surprized at how little paint I used:
two cups total did the entire structure with some to spare. I am assuming
that since there is a solid coat of paint that I cannot see through that it is
thick enough. I did put a double coat on the non-alclad spar pieces.
Next step is riveting all of this together. After all the hours of prep
work, I am nervous about fouling it all up with a mis-rivet.
Thanks to everyone for all the opinions and help.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, empennage
San Ramon, California
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@nomadwi.com>
Greetings all:
I just experienced a vaguely similar situation in my RV-4 (carb, Aerosport,
0-360.
Last week while buzzing along at altitude my EI fuel computer's FF reading
began to vary (it has always been rock solid.. In this case at cruise it was
reading 8.5 gph). It dropped to as low as 3.5 gph but the engine ran fine
and all other readings were normal.
After a couple minutes it resumed a normal reading and was fine the rest of
the trip.
Today I flew around and discovered the FF reading was now consistently low
(3.4 gph at normal cruise when it should have been 8.5). Powering back to
17" of MP it drops to zero. All other indications are normal and the engine
runs fine. Tomorrow I call EI for some advice but do any of you folks have
any ideas.
Doug Weiler
RV-4, 170 hours TT
On 3/20/05 3:57 PM, "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com> wrote:
> .
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Jim,
Your concerns are valid ones ... and I share them. On the other hand I
have also seen this sort of thing work *because* of folks like yourself
who have a desire to see accurate information shared. But it does set a
high hurdle having it be open to all.
The advantage of having it open to all is that if you see a problem, you
can fix it. Immediately. :)
I should also note that the particular implementation of the Wiki we are
thinking about using does allow a page to be rolled back to a previous
version. Therefore, if someone comes along and makes a *bad* edit, we
can step back to an earlier copy and go from there.
I thank you for your offer of assistance .... and I encourage anyone who
thinks a repository of good construction articles will be a benefit to the
community to chime in as well. I already have a test Wiki up and running
..... but it isn't ready for prime time yet. When it is we'll announce
it here (and elsewhere), and folks can give it a whirl. In the begining
it won't be much, since it'll count all all of *you* to populate it with
your experience. But with a starting framework in place we will have
something upon which we can build.
-- Dwight
do not archive
On Sun Mar 20 16:25:18 2005, Jim Duckett wrote :
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett <perfeng@3rivers.net>
>
>Dwight as well as other interested Listers,
>The wiki approach sounds great to me and in most user specific
>communities it seems to work quite well. There have been many "Pro's"
>made for its implementation but, the only "Con" I see is the "Play Nice"
>and the suggested "Anyone Can Edit" option. I would like to propose
>that if the edit option is left open to anyone, that the original or
>edited text remain (in a different font or highlight) to indicate what
>the original author wrote.
>I'm not suggesting that years of experience or professional
>qualifications need to be met in order for a person to author an entry
>but, if this wiki is to be a reference type resource rather than a
>discussion based forum, there needs to be some level of validity and
>control in the information that is presented.
>Although we don't like to admit it, there are some folks in the aircraft
>building community that see no problem with using sub-standard, non
>intended use products and components in their attempts to construct an
>airplane. Nor do they seem to have any regular adherence to Standards
>or Accepted Practices. I have seen and heard of builders going blindly
>through their project with the attitude of " measure it with a Mic, mark
>it with chalk, and cut it with a torch, and finish with who's gonna see
>the mistakes when its airborne"? Others tend to be so frightened that
>they seem to need confirmation on dimpling each hole or squeezing each
>rivet.
> I really don't think either of these types of postings will be a
>problem but, from time to time I have seen a few bizarre suggestions
>and recommendations on the List and with other Groups that qualify as
>things that make you say... HUH?
>I just don't want to see a reference site that suggests using house
>paint for Alcad primer, using firewood to build jigs, or structural
>fasteners that came from the orange big box store. IMHO the information
>should at least mirror lessons learned from building under accepted
>procedures and practices while using the proper materials and components.
>I support your efforts and offer my assistance in making this a reality
>in any way I can.
>
>Jim Duckett
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: <maurv8@bresnan.net>
Randy,
I'm very concerned. This is first I have heard about the sale. Can you
elaborate?
I'm planning on using their 200RV but won't need it for about a year.
Mauri Morin
RV-8
Polson,Mt.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Good idea Jon, I just joined it. Doug Reeves also has Propeller forum on
> his
> new setup that we could utilize.
>
> Is anyone concerned about the sale of Whirl Wind to new owners?
>
> Randy Lervold
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonweisw" <jonweisw@rcn.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
>>
>> I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
>> discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
>>
>> The link is:
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jon Weiswasser
>> N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
>> 100h
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Konrad,
Jim and Patti Rust, owners of Whirl Wind Propellers, have sold the aviation
product line (but kept the airboat line) to John Williams, owner of Titan
Aircraft (www.titanaircraft.com). John has formed a new company called Whirl
Wind Aviation to handle the props that will be operated out of the Titan
facility in Ohio. This took place right around the first of the year. The
order backlog went with the deal. I'm not sure folks are aware of this. I
have have no idea what the credentials of the new owners are, nor do I know
their plans for the product line or how they handle support. Customers,
either with existing props or those buying a new prop, should be aware of
this. I'm sure all of us WW owners would appreciate hearing experiences with
the new company.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
> Randy,
> Who is the (proposed) new owner of WW-Props?
> Konrad
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Lervold
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Good idea Jon, I just joined it. Doug Reeves also has Propeller forum on
his
> new setup that we could utilize.
>
> Is anyone concerned about the sale of Whirl Wind to new owners?
>
> Randy Lervold
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonweisw" <jonweisw@rcn.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
> >
> > I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
> > discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
> >
> > The link is:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jon Weiswasser
> > N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
> > 100h
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Hi Doug,
The flow sensor if a very delicate instrument with a little turbine on a
tiny jeweled bearing. Since you're engine continued to run the sensor is
logically the culprit. If you can't can't remove any debris then expect to
replace it, and they're not cheap! E.I. is now shipping their own
proprietary flow sensor rather than using the Floscan 201 like everyone
else. Supposedly it has some real improvements. Consider upgrading if you
don't already have one.
Randy Lervold
RV-3B, fuselage/finish
RV-8, 368 hrs, sold
> I just experienced a vaguely similar situation in my RV-4 (carb,
Aerosport,
> 0-360.
>
> Last week while buzzing along at altitude my EI fuel computer's FF reading
> began to vary (it has always been rock solid.. In this case at cruise it
was
> reading 8.5 gph). It dropped to as low as 3.5 gph but the engine ran fine
> and all other readings were normal.
>
> After a couple minutes it resumed a normal reading and was fine the rest
of
> the trip.
>
> Today I flew around and discovered the FF reading was now consistently low
> (3.4 gph at normal cruise when it should have been 8.5). Powering back to
> 17" of MP it drops to zero. All other indications are normal and the
engine
> runs fine. Tomorrow I call EI for some advice but do any of you folks
have
> any ideas.
>
> Doug Weiler
> RV-4, 170 hours TT
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whirlwind propellers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Randy,
Thank you for the inside scoop.
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Lervold
To: rv-list@matronics.com ; whirlwindpropellers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Konrad,
Jim and Patti Rust, owners of Whirl Wind Propellers, have sold the aviation
product line (but kept the airboat line) to John Williams, owner of Titan
Aircraft (www.titanaircraft.com). John has formed a new company called Whirl
Wind Aviation to handle the props that will be operated out of the Titan
facility in Ohio. This took place right around the first of the year. The
order backlog went with the deal. I'm not sure folks are aware of this. I
have have no idea what the credentials of the new owners are, nor do I know
their plans for the product line or how they handle support. Customers,
either with existing props or those buying a new prop, should be aware of
this. I'm sure all of us WW owners would appreciate hearing experiences with
the new company.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
> Randy,
> Who is the (proposed) new owner of WW-Props?
> Konrad
>
> and> do not archive <
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Lervold
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Good idea Jon, I just joined it. Doug Reeves also has Propeller forum on
his
> new setup that we could utilize.
>
> Is anyone concerned about the sale of Whirl Wind to new owners?
>
> Randy Lervold
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonweisw" <jonweisw@rcn.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Whirlwind propellers
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: jonweisw <jonweisw@rcn.com>
> >
> > I have started this for those of us with the WW propellers to initiate
> > discussion and trade experiences with their line of propellers.
> >
> > The link is:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whirlwindpropellers
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jon Weiswasser
> > N898JW, RV-8, WW200RV
> > 100h
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ignition wire clamps |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 3/20/2005 10:18:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv8striker@hotmail.com writes:
Anybody know where to get ignition wire clamps for two leads? I've seen them
on production airplanes so I know they are available. The archives had a
hit, but the link is dead.
ACS.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 736hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Harry,
Here's another data point.
I too hoped that mine one of the "good" flap motors. After flying about 70
trouble free hours since last July my flap motor quit a week ago. I was
taking the airplane to the local painter about 30 miles from here who has a short
grass strip. When I was in the landing pattern, the flaps went halfway down
and would not go either up or down after that. Great, my first landing
without full flaps when I really needed them. My plane is somewhat "nose-heavy"
since it has an angle valve engine and CS prop, so I was a little nervous,
but there was no problem. I was glad because I had just buzzed his shop and he
was out watching me!
After landing, the flaps worked fine for a couple of cycles, then quit
again. I played with the switch some more after removing the side panels, and
found that just touching the end of the motor shaft where it sticks out was
enough to get it to run again. No, I don't recommend this as a fix!
I haven't taken it apart yet. Is there a "permanent" fix?
Regards,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since last July, now finally being painted)
do not archive
In a message dated 3/20/05 3:52:56 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
HCRV6@aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Just another data point in the saga of the greasy flap motors. My flap
motor
quit at 47.4 hours. I had hoped I was safe from the cursed greasy motor
syndrome but no such luck.
<snip>
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
The fix (last time I check with Vans) was as Harry said, to clean the
motor. I couldn't put up with this so I went back to manual flaps.
Electric Flaps - 3 failures
Manual Flaps - 0 failures
I'm sold!
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>Harry,
>
>Here's another data point.
>
>I too hoped that mine one of the "good" flap motors. After flying about 70
>trouble free hours since last July my flap motor quit a week ago. I was
>taking the airplane to the local painter about 30 miles from here who has a short
>grass strip. When I was in the landing pattern, the flaps went halfway down
>and would not go either up or down after that. Great, my first landing
>without full flaps when I really needed them. My plane is somewhat "nose-heavy"
>since it has an angle valve engine and CS prop, so I was a little nervous,
>but there was no problem. I was glad because I had just buzzed his shop and
he
>was out watching me!
>
>After landing, the flaps worked fine for a couple of cycles, then quit
>again. I played with the switch some more after removing the side panels, and
>found that just touching the end of the motor shaft where it sticks out was
>enough to get it to run again. No, I don't recommend this as a fix!
>
>I haven't taken it apart yet. Is there a "permanent" fix?
>
>Regards,
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A (Flying since last July, now finally being painted)
>
>do not archive
>
>
>In a message dated 3/20/05 3:52:56 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>HCRV6@aol.com writes:
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
>Just another data point in the saga of the greasy flap motors. My flap
>motor
>quit at 47.4 hours. I had hoped I was safe from the cursed greasy motor
>syndrome but no such luck.
><snip>
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
>
>The fix (last time I check with Vans) was as Harry said, to clean the
>motor. I couldn't put up with this so I went back to manual flaps.
>
>Electric Flaps - 3 failures
>Manual Flaps - 0 failures
>
>I'm sold!
>
>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
Cessna 150 flap motor system, no failures in 16 years. :-)
Jerry(old fashioned RV-6) Springer
do not archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: wing incidence |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/19/2005 11:22:38 PM Central Standard Time,
jorear@new.rr.com writes:
I don't have my wings installed yet, so I am just speculating here. Am I
concerned over nothing??
>>>>
Maybe- I barely had to nudge mine until the bubble centered, but they would
move up/down pretty easily maybe 1/4" each way, but this was before installing
all them stinking spar bolts!
Mark Phillips
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | flap motor repair tip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Barnes" <skytop@megsinet.net>
I broke one of my brushes in half with needle nose pliers, by not being real careful.
The problem would have been avoided had I used the twist tie that is explained
in the article on Van's web site and mentioned by others recently on
this list.
The brush looks like it is made from compressed brass (or some other conductive
metal) dust.
Tom Barnes -6 flap motor failed at 80 hours. Performs without flaw now for 12+
hours after cleaning.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Scott,
That's one way to fix an electrical problem!
OK, here's some more data. Mine problem was evidentially a different
failure mode than Harry's. I removed the brush end of the motor and found almost
NO grease in the motor, except on the brushes. The commutator was black with
oil that wiped right off. I cleaned it up with a clean rag, cleaned the
brushes with alcohol, and put it back together. I won't be able to fly the
airplane for about 2 months, so you won't know for a while how long it lasted.
I
don't know where the oil came from. Maybe its from the little ball bearing
race. BTW, I was able to use some #28 insulated copper wire to wire the
brush springs back during reassembly.
In case anyone needs this information, the motor was made by Motion Systems
Corp. Eatontown, NJ.
The label on the motor reads:
9234C120-R7
73633 12 VDC
08-21-01
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
The fix (last time I check with Vans) was as Harry said, to clean the
motor. I couldn't put up with this so I went back to manual flaps.
Electric Flaps - 3 failures
Manual Flaps - 0 failures
I'm sold!
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>Harry,
>
>Here's another data point.
>
>I too hoped that mine one of the "good" flap motors. After flying about
70
>trouble free hours since last July my flap motor quit a week ago. I was
>taking the airplane to the local painter about 30 miles from here who has
a short
>grass strip. When I was in the landing pattern, the flaps went halfway
down
>and would not go either up or down after that. Great, my first landing
>without full flaps when I really needed them. My plane is somewhat
"nose-heavy"
>since it has an angle valve engine and CS prop, so I was a little nervous,
>but there was no problem. I was glad because I had just buzzed his shop
and he
>was out watching me!
>
>After landing, the flaps worked fine for a couple of cycles, then quit
>again. I played with the switch some more after removing the side panels,
and
>found that just touching the end of the motor shaft where it sticks out was
>enough to get it to run again. No, I don't recommend this as a fix!
>
>I haven't taken it apart yet. Is there a "permanent" fix?
>
>Regards,
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A (Flying since last July, now finally being painted)
>
>do not archive
>
>
>In a message dated 3/20/05 3:52:56 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>HCRV6@aol.com writes:
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
>Just another data point in the saga of the greasy flap motors. My flap
>motor
>quit at 47.4 hours. I had hoped I was safe from the cursed greasy motor
>syndrome but no such luck.
><snip>
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mission Scrubbed - No Fuel Pressure HELP |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@nomadwi.com>
That is what I am suspecting. I'll see what they say tomorrow. Nothing
that a big of money probably won't cure.
Doug
On 3/20/05 5:39 PM, "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> The flow sensor if a very delicate instrument with a little turbine on a
> tiny jeweled bearing. Since you're engine continued to run the sensor is
> logically the culprit. If you can't can't remove any debris then expect to
> replace it, and they're not cheap! E.I. is now shipping their own
> proprietary flow sensor rather than using the Floscan 201 like everyone
> else. Supposedly it has some real improvements. Consider upgrading if you
> don't already have one.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-3B, fuselage/finish
> RV-8, 368 hrs, sold
>
>
>> I just experienced a vaguely similar situation in my RV-4 (carb,
> Aerosport,
>> 0-360.
>>
>> Last week while buzzing along at altitude my EI fuel computer's FF reading
>> began to vary (it has always been rock solid.. In this case at cruise it
> was
>> reading 8.5 gph). It dropped to as low as 3.5 gph but the engine ran fine
>> and all other readings were normal.
>>
>> After a couple minutes it resumed a normal reading and was fine the rest
> of
>> the trip.
>>
>> Today I flew around and discovered the FF reading was now consistently low
>> (3.4 gph at normal cruise when it should have been 8.5). Powering back to
>> 17" of MP it drops to zero. All other indications are normal and the
> engine
>> runs fine. Tomorrow I call EI for some advice but do any of you folks
> have
>> any ideas.
>>
>> Doug Weiler
>> RV-4, 170 hours TT
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Dan,
I had the same type of failure at about 120 hours. Flaps went down
about 10 deg, then wouldn't budge (in flight.) Once back on the ground
they worked normally. I took the motot apart and had the exact
situation you described. Cleaned it up real good (including scraping
the gunk from between the sections on the commutator with a dentist's
pick) and put it back together. No problems since. The consensus
theory was that the motor would operate when gunked up, but not generate
full power. This is why the flaps work on the ground but not in flight,
with air loads.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/20/2005 9:31:41 AM Central Standard Time,
dwight@openweave.org writes:
Imagine you have come up with a new great way to install wingtips
>>>>>>
OK, so I really do have a neat new way to install wingtips- why not just ask
here? (I really do- I used hinges just like the cowling and if y'all want
more info, let me know!)
WDNNSPOSFTPWIT (We Don't Need No Steenking Platenuts Or Screws From The
PossumWorks In Tennessee)
Mark Phillips
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: flap motor repair tip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Sebok" <ksebok@chinita.com>
I've been flying my F-1 for 104 hours now, have had the flap motor fail
twice in that time period. First was at 45 hours, second at 92 hours, both
preceded by intermittent operation. The first time, I removed the motor
(not a simple task), disassembled, and cleaned the brushes, per numerous
messages on the list. After cleaning, the motor worked well for 47 hours.
The second time, after researching the list for any new updates on the
problem, found a message that someone from Van's recommended disassembling
the motor, cleaning, and lubricating using 3-in-1 oil. Figuring it was
worth a shot to try w/ a shortcut, I placed 2 drops of 3-in-1 oil on the end
of the vertical shaft at the center of the motor. After letting the oil
lubricate down the shaft for a few minutes, I tried the motor again, and it
miraculously worked. Twelve hours later, it's still working, without any
problems. Not sure why this alleviated the need for the cleaning step,
YMMV.
Ken Sebok
F-1 Rocket
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | cockpit noise abatement? |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
This is probably a stretch but has anyone actually done a before and after type
test on adding one of the *popular* heat/noise abatement materials onto the firewall?
I've ridden in a few different RVs of various makes and they were all
loud and were hot or cold depending on what the outside was doing. Can't recall
my feet in a side by side being influenced by firewall temp. Some were all
decked out in leather and filled in panels everywhere and some were plain.
I didn't seem to notice the difference. My hunch is closing off the big fuse
holes like ailerons and such will probably help the most but now is the time for
me to finish off the firewall barrier if I do it at all.
thx,
lucky
This is probably a stretch but has anyone actually done a before and after type
test on adding one of the *popular* heat/noise abatement materials onto the firewall?
I've ridden in a few different RVs of various makes and they were all
loudand were hot or cold depending on what the outside was doing.Can't recall
my feet in a side by sidebeing influencedby firewall temp.Some were all decked
out in leather and filled in panels everywhere and some were plain. I didn't
seem to notice the difference. My hunch is closing off the big fuse holes like
ailerons and such will probably help the most but now is the time for me to
finish off the firewall barrier if I do it at all.
thx,
lucky
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: <groves@epix.net>
Hey Mark I would like more info on your hinged wing tips!
Thanks
Kirk RV-8
>
> From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> Date: 2005/03/20 Sun PM 09:04:34 EST
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting,
Etc.))
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 03/20/2005 9:31:41 AM Central Standard Time,
> dwight@openweave.org writes:
> Imagine you have come up with a new great way to install wingtips
> >>>>>>
>
> OK, so I really do have a neat new way to install wingtips- why not just ask
> here? (I really do- I used hinges just like the cowling and if y'all want
> more info, let me know!)
>
> WDNNSPOSFTPWIT (We Don't Need No Steenking Platenuts Or Screws From The
> PossumWorks In Tennessee)
>
> Mark Phillips
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
On Sun Mar 20 21:04:34 2005, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote :
>In a message dated 03/20/2005 9:31:41 AM Central Standard Time,
>dwight@openweave.org writes:
>Imagine you have come up with a new great way to install wingtips
>>>>>>>
>
>OK, so I really do have a neat new way to install wingtips- why not just ask
>here? (I really do- I used hinges just like the cowling and if y'all want
>more info, let me know!)
Actually, asking here is great. I can't imagine that folks won't come
here with their questions for a long time to come. However, I'm lazy
and if I can answer a question by typing it up once .. and from then on
just give someone a URL, that is what I'd go for!
In all honesty, this is what I started doing at work. I discovered that
I was answering the same questions over and over ... and put up a Wiki.
From then on every time I was asked one of the regularly-asked-questions
I'd write it up on the Wiki and send the URL.
Back when I would answer questions via e-mail I would, of course, have a
typo or two ... or would have forgotten something along the way. It is
hard to remember complex answers or sequences of steps off the top of you
head when asked. When a mistake like that would happen I'd have to send a
follow-up e-mail to clarify. Sometimes it took a bit of back-and-forth to
get it all right, or explain it clearly enough for the other person.
Now instead of that back-and-forth e-mailing, I fix the page on the Wiki
which means *those* regularly-asked-questions are ones I can always give an
accurate (and informally reviewed) answer to with almost zero effort. It
has saved me a LOT of typing, and much confusion for the folks doing the
asking. (Saving my time is the big win for me, though. I did say I was
lazy, didn't I?)
>WDNNSPOSFTPWIT (We Don't Need No Steenking Platenuts Or Screws From The
>PossumWorks In Tennessee)
And I hope you choose to write this new technique up for the Wiki, but
that is your choice. I'm not inclined to try and convince anyone that
this is their cup of tea. I don't think any single tool will magically
be right for *everyone*. That being said I think your wingtip attachment
approach is a cool technique and genuinely do hope you choose to write
it up.
Oh ... and if you *don't* want to, might we write it up ourselves subject
to your approval and review? This is exactly the sort of thing I think
would be good to capture. Thanks!
-- Dwight
do not archive
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Mark ... please include me as well and thank you.
Jerry
7A
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Me Too!
Regards,
Bob - RV-8 - N678RC
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:22:55 -0500, groves@epix.net <groves@epix.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <groves@epix.net>
>
> Hey Mark I would like more info on your hinged wing tips!
> Thanks
> Kirk RV-8
> >
> > From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> > Date: 2005/03/20 Sun PM 09:04:34 EST
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Wingtips (was RV-Wiki (was: RV-List: Prepping. Priming, Painting,
Etc.))
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 03/20/2005 9:31:41 AM Central Standard Time,
> > dwight@openweave.org writes:
> > Imagine you have come up with a new great way to install wingtips
> > >>>>>>
> >
> > OK, so I really do have a neat new way to install wingtips- why not just ask
> > here? (I really do- I used hinges just like the cowling and if y'all want
> > more info, let me know!)
> >
> > WDNNSPOSFTPWIT (We Don't Need No Steenking Platenuts Or Screws From The
> > PossumWorks In Tennessee)
> >
> > Mark Phillips
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | flap motor repair tip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
My 1st RV6A had no problems but broke a wire right at the housing at 300hrs.
My 2nd RV6A I have had to clean about every 100 hours. I can tell when it
needs cleaned because it starts to make a very little whine in the intercom.
Has anyone found a place to buy parts like the brushes. Mine is a Pitman
motor.
John Furey
RV6A 350 hrs
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Tire wear problem resolution |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1@comcast.net>
> << forgot to mention the AirHawks were the HEAVIEST tire listed, by far,
in
> the one table that had weights. 17.9 pounds a piece in this chart where
the
> condors are 8.8 pounds a piece. Wow, 20 pounds of extra tire weight.
That's
> heavier than a friggin Prestolite Starter! >>
>
> FWIW, my guess is that the 17.9 pounds is a typo, probably should be 7.9
> judging by the similar size AirTrac. If you compare the diameter to the
others,
> the AirHawk would have to use lead in the rubber to weigh that much.
>
> Do not archive
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
==========================================
Gentlemen,
A suitable electronic scale, a slightly worn Air Hawk and a new Condor are
in hand.
5:00 - 5 Air Hawk = 3 lbs 10.0 oz.
5:00 - 5 Condor = 5 lbs 8.6 oz. [6 ply rating]
Bob
RV-3 N863WL 700+ hours
Do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping. Priming, Painting, |
Etc.))
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/20/2005 8:39:48 PM Central Standard Time,
dwight@openweave.org writes:
Oh ... and if you *don't* want to, might we write it up ourselves subject
to your approval and review? This is exactly the sort of thing I think
would be good to capture. Thanks!
>>>
Hi Dwight- Ya know, the WIKI thing sounds pretty interesting, and I couldn't
agree more on sending multiple replies out to questions from many listers. I
just wonder if it would be much different than having a website I could point
folks to with a select URL, accessable by anyone here. One of these days I
want to grow up and get a website all my own! Problem is, all the usual
suspects want $$$ to host, and my $$$ keeps getting used for airplane gas!
Will have to give it an eyeball once set up...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I'm afraid that the only real permanent fix is to buy a new one. I "fixed"
mine more than 4 times before I got pissed off enough to buy a new one from
Van's, who by the way says....yep, some were bad and it looks like you got
one, but you're stuck spending another pile of cash if you want a new one.
Basically, the response from them is "sucks to be you".....
Don't mean for it to be a flame on Van's, who is normally VERY responsive to
these types of things, but simply telling us to fix a known problem over and
over again really got my blood boiling.
Incidentally, my new flap motor has over 250+ trouble free hours.
Cheers,
Stein.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Greasy flap motors, cont'd
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Harry,
Here's another data point.
I too hoped that mine one of the "good" flap motors. After flying about 70
trouble free hours since last July my flap motor quit a week ago. I was
taking the airplane to the local painter about 30 miles from here who has a
short
grass strip. When I was in the landing pattern, the flaps went halfway
down
and would not go either up or down after that. Great, my first landing
without full flaps when I really needed them. My plane is somewhat
"nose-heavy"
since it has an angle valve engine and CS prop, so I was a little nervous,
but there was no problem. I was glad because I had just buzzed his shop
and he
was out watching me!
After landing, the flaps worked fine for a couple of cycles, then quit
again. I played with the switch some more after removing the side panels,
and
found that just touching the end of the motor shaft where it sticks out was
enough to get it to run again. No, I don't recommend this as a fix!
I haven't taken it apart yet. Is there a "permanent" fix?
Regards,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since last July, now finally being painted)
do not archive
In a message dated 3/20/05 3:52:56 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
HCRV6@aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Just another data point in the saga of the greasy flap motors. My flap
motor
quit at 47.4 hours. I had hoped I was safe from the cursed greasy motor
syndrome but no such luck.
<snip>
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 3/20/2005 5:30:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jsflyrv@comcast.net writes:
>The fix (last time I check with Vans) was as Harry said, to clean the
>motor. I couldn't put up with this so I went back to manual flaps.
>
>Electric Flaps - 3 failures
>Manual Flaps - 0 failures
>
>I'm sold!
>
>Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
Cessna 150 flap motor system, no failures in 16 years.
==============================
Van's standard Motion Systems Corp. actuator works fine, lasts a long time
since day one on my bird. With some of these Pittman motors lasting thousands
of hours and some lasting only tens of hours, there must be more to the
story here. I would love to look at a someone's failed motor and see if I can
do
the failure analysis and craft an easy fix. Any takers?
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 736hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 48
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| Subject: | Failure on Motion Control actuators used on Experimental Aircraft |
flaps
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
Gentlemen-
I am affiliated with a national group of pilots building a series of
aircraft kits made by Van's Aircraft. This aircraft uses your actuator and there
have been some failures related to the Pittman motor used therein. Below is
the text is a letter recently received on our forum, that highlights the
problem in general. I am a Mechanical Engineer working in the Defense Industry
and
my primary interest with our group is to find out how to prevent the
problems that some of our builders are experiencing and ultimately to help make
these aircraft as mechanically safe and reliable as they can be. I have your
product in my plane and it works very well over the past 7 yrs, but some are
having repeated failures over just short periods of operation.
================================Start of text of supporting posting
I removed the brush end of the motor and found almost
NO grease in the motor, except on the brushes. The commutator was black
with
oil that wiped right off. I cleaned it up with a clean rag, cleaned the
brushes with alcohol, and put it back together. I won't be able to fly the
airplane for about 2 months, so you won't know for a while how long it
lasted. I
don't know where the oil came from. Maybe its from the little ball bearing
race. BTW, I was able to use some #28 insulated copper wire to wire the
brush springs back during reassembly.
In case anyone needs this information, the motor was made by Motion Systems
Corp. Eatontown, NJ.
The label on the motor reads:
9234C120-R7
73633 12 VDC
08-21-01
===============================End of text of supporting posting
I have offered to receive any motor actuator to try to understand how they
are failing, but apparently many builders just give up and switch to a manual
system rather than pursue a remedy. Reports indicate that excessive (and in
some rare cases, lack of) lubricating grease is contributing to these
problems.
I would like to engage you in helping to identify and remedy these issues.
Thank you in advance and please advise.
Gary VanRemortel (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 736hrs, Silicon Valley,
CA)
Message 49
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| Subject: | Whelan Wingtip Strobe Cover Removable? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All, Stupid question...is the clear glass cover over the strobe flashtube on the
wingtip combo lights (Whelan) removable? Thanks,Scott
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Just curious how the new motor differs from the old one? Different
manufacturer, part #, ???
Jeff Point
Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>Incidentally, my new flap motor has over 250+ trouble free hours.
>
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: wing incidence |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Jeff, here's the info I received from Van's (8 Feb 2001): "I ran some
number and here's what I came up with...The distance from main spar to rear
spar is 26.58 inches on the RV-6 aircraft.". . . "Now let's look at the
existing rear spar attach joint...we have to install a5/16 inch diameter
bolt through the 1 1/2 inch wide rear spar attach bars. This means that,
for 2 times the bolt diameter edge distance in both the wing side of the
joint and in the fuselage side of the joint, we could slide the rear spar
down by 1/4 inch. How much incidence change will result from this 1/4 inch
rear spar displacement? The angle is the inverse sine of .250 inches
divided by 26.58 inches which equals 0.539 degrees. The amunt of flex in
the main spar is enough to accommodate the 1/4 inch displacement that you
could achieve simply by shifting the rear spar down using the existing joint
dimensions. I don't have a good feel for how much more flex could be
tolerated by the main spar."
So, you can get an extra 1/2 degree (0.54 degrees) by moving the rear spar
down 1/4 inch.
The Van's Drawing 1(side view of aircraft) shows chord line of wing about 11
degrees up from ground line. A CAD drawing I did, shows the Fuselage
Reference Line (FRL) being 11 degrees nose up in 3 point attitude (tail
dragger, and RV-6A with tail down that low on landing) and wing is set
1degree above that, wo chord line of wing is 12 degrees, not the 11 degrees
I measured off the Dwg 1.
From that baseline, I used CAD to see what things I could do to increase
nose up attitude in the 3 point touchdown attitude:
- Add 0.54 degrees by lowering aft spar 1/4" (see first part of e-mail
above)
- Add 0.67 degrees using "long RV-4 gear legs bent to RV-6 axle angle
and special RV-6 eng mount with RV-4 gear leg sockets" - these legs are 2"
longer than stock RV-6 legs.
- Add 0.60 degrees using tire that is 1" greater OD: metric
380X150/15X6.0-5 (-5 is 5 inch rim dia, stock Van's rim for stock 5.00X5
tire)
- Add 0.97 degrees if rotate tailwheel assembly 180 degrees to lower
tail.
------------------
Total delta + 2.78 degrees added to stock 12.0 degrees wing incidence in
3 point attitude = 14.78 degrees.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: wing incidence
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> List:
>
> Just trying to plan ahead here.....What is the maximum that you can
actually adjust/set the incidence on a 6/6A wing? A full degree?? Half a
degree?? It seems that with the fit of the spars to the fuselage bulkhead
that there would be very little room for making any significant change in
the incidence of the wing.
>
> If you need to change the incidence to any degree, you will have to put
quite a bit of force on the aft edge of the wing to get any movement back
there, thus really putting a heavy shear load on that one poor bolt in the
rear spar.
>
> I don't have my wings installed yet, so I am just speculating here. Am I
concerned over nothing??
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A N782P (reserved)
> Finishing up firewall forward
> Peshtigo, WI
Message 52
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| Subject: | Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Yep!
Just to re-iterate what a bunch of us went through some time ago. As stated
before, my final cure (as well as others) was to s!@#$can the old one and
buy a new one.
Van's knows all about this. No need to waste a bunch of time by anyone
doing "failure analysis", etc... as Van's has already done it. The fact
is, Van's received a "batch"/Lot of flap motors that were inferior in some
details. I'll past the quote from the Van's letter directly below:
============================================================================
===========
"In 2002 we switched suppliers, replacing the units we'd received from
Motion Systems with a custom made unit powered by a Pittman brand motor.
The new units can be identified by the Van's logo incised on the aluminum
gear box housing. Not long after the change was made, we got a significant
number of complaints about motors failing after just a few hours.
Naturally, we suspected the new motors...but as it turns out, the newer
"Van's" units were not the culprit.
Instead, the problem seems to appear in one of the last batches of Motion
Systems units. These were received about three years ago and they are now
starting to appear in finished airplanes. The problem is usually caused by
an excess of grease in the gearbox...
As the unit spins, hydraulic pressure pushes grease back into the motor unit
and coats the windings, commutator and brushes".
============================================================================
=============
Sorry for my sarcasm on this subject, but I was one of the lucky guys who
got burnt on both my RV6's with the same "bad batch" motor. Looks like
problem is solved now, but in my next airplane, guess what?...the ole'
johnson bar in between the seats will guarantee I'll never have this problem
again!
Cheers,
Stein.
do not archive - the complete letter as quoted above is on van's website
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: Re: RV-List: Greasy flap motors, cont'd
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Just curious how the new motor differs from the old one? Different
manufacturer, part #, ???
Jeff Point
Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>Incidentally, my new flap motor has over 250+ trouble free hours.
>
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Whelan Wingtip Strobe Cover Removable? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 3/20/2005 8:19:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tx_jayhawk@excite.com writes:
All, Stupid question...is the clear glass cover over the strobe flashtube on
the wingtip combo lights (Whelan) removable?
======================
Absolutely.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 736hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 54
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| Subject: | Greasy flap motors, cont'd |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole@comcast.net>
I don't understand why everyone is content to put up with this failure.
This has been occurring for years. There would certainly be an AD
if this was a certified aircraft. If this was happening in your newly
purchased vehicle or any other consumer item we'd be having a fit. The
vendor should be recalling these and repairing/replacing the motors.
The first time someone tries a go around with full flaps that won't
retract
and stuffs it in the ground, I'll bet the problem will get fixed real
fast.
Ed Cole RV6A (manual flaps)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: Re: RV-List: Greasy flap motors, cont'd
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Dan,
I had the same type of failure at about 120 hours. Flaps went down
about 10 deg, then wouldn't budge (in flight.) Once back on the ground
they worked normally. I took the motot apart and had the exact
situation you described. Cleaned it up real good (including scraping
the gunk from between the sections on the commutator with a dentist's
pick) and put it back together. No problems since. The consensus
theory was that the motor would operate when gunked up, but not generate
full power. This is why the flaps work on the ground but not in flight,
with air loads.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
=
=
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition wire clamps |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Here's a direct link to the item on Sac Sky Ranch's site:
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=be0275d1
$2.64 each, part # CH1P026 is the two-wire clamp.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Ignition wire clamps
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
>
> Anybody know where to get ignition wire clamps for two leads? I've seen
them on production airplanes so I know they are available. The archives had
a hit, but the link is dead.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Steve Struyk
> RV-8, N842S (Res.)
> St. Charles, MO
> 90% done...90% to go!
>
>
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