Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS (Dan Checkoway)
2. 05:02 AM - RV-9 rear spar (Chenoweth)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: (Ed Anderson)
4. 07:07 AM - Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (jim & terri truitt)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Dwpetrus@aol.com)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Sam Buchanan)
7. 09:02 AM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Mickey Coggins)
8. 09:19 AM - Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS (HCRV6@aol.com)
9. 09:57 AM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (John Danielson)
10. 10:10 AM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Sam Buchanan)
11. 02:41 PM - Re: RV-9 rear spar (Tom Callender)
12. 02:59 PM - Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Glen Matejcek)
13. 03:59 PM - Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear (Ed Anderson)
14. 04:49 PM - Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS (Jeff Dowling)
15. 05:58 PM - GNC300, GI 106 , SL30 (dave)
16. 07:14 PM - Insurance (Sherri & Paul Richardson)
17. 08:18 PM - Re: Insurance (sportav8r@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Do yourself a favor and install the aileron trim. While Dan is correct in
that it's extremely light on the controls, there are times when you want to
take your hands off -- if there's an imbalance of fuel, for example, the
plane will bank. You can fly "with your knees," but why not always keep the
airplane in trim if you have the option?
Even though Dan also mentioned that an autopilot will take care of it, if
you watch the stick when running a Trutrak autopilot, as soon as there's a
noticeable fuel imbalance, you can see the stick "ticking" away from the
heavy wing as it applies small corrective inputs. Anybody who has a Trutrak
knows what I mean by "ticking." When I see that symptom I know it's time to
switch tanks and/or throw in some trim to keep the autopilot happy-happy.
Back to the method...the safety wire does work. It may take a couple of
iterations to get the length just right -- stick naturally centered with no
force on it and trim centered -- and also to get the spring force just
right -- just to the point of no sagging or slack when the stick is actuated
fully to each side.
When I was building my -7 I thought the spring system was totally cheesy.
But now having flown a fair amount, the system has proven itself to be
useful, simple, lightweight, and reliable. You can always remove it later
if you find you don't use it or want it. But I'll bet you'll find it
useful.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (416 hours, 1st annual in process)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
> Jerry,
>
> You could just skip that step IMHO.
>
> I used .041 safety wire. But, I have found that I never use the trim
lever
> anyway. It is not very easy to get to because my seats have only about 2
> inches (if that much) room between them. Also, I have had trouble
keeping it
> adjusted tight enough to hold. I am going to remove the springs and see
if I
> miss having the trim. I use the Nav-Aid autopilot a lot, so it is not
> necessary to have the airplane trimmed perfectly. When I am flying the
airplane, I
> never notice it being out of trim. It is so light on the controls that
> almost no stick force will keep it level. I may get flamed, but the
plane doesn't
> fly hands off anyway -- almost but not hands off.
>
> Dan Hopper
> Walton, IN
> RV-7A (In the paint shop for a long time)
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jsd41@aol.com
>
> List:
> I am installing my aileron trim in my RV-6A. Is there something other
then
> safety wire to attach the springs to the adjusting lever? It seem like it
> will
> be hard to get both side adjusted.
> Thanks
> Jerry Davis
> Glen Carbon, ILL
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I'm in the assembly part of the rear spar and wondered about the timing of attaching
the aileron and flap brackets to it.
I can't see any reason I shouldn't attach the inboard aileron bracket assembly
(W913) now. Can any 9 builders confirm that?
I see that the outboard bracket (W914) has to wait till the outboard wing rib is
on but once that's done I'd like to attach that early on too.
Perhaps a larger question is: Can I perform the tasks under "Finishing Rear Spar
Details" (p 7-10 in my book) during or just after the "Assembling the Wing
Skeleton" (p 7-3) operations instead of after riveting the top skin. The point
would be to have as much access as possible.
Finally, my instructions and drawings don't mention anything about whether to dimple
or countersink the three 1/8 rivet holes where the W914 goes. Based on
the thickness, .040, of the material I'd say they have to be dimpled but I don't
want to risk deforming spar and doubler. So, can any of you give me some guidance
here, too?
Thanks very much in advance.
Bill
Albion
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Yes, Mickey, I recall there was one similar incident involving a canard type
(Long Ez I think). He had modified his fuel system, didn't like the mod and
put it back in the original configuration - later crashed with damage on the
ground, lawsuits, etc. Insurance company position was that even though the
fuel system was back to the original (approved) configuration, he had fail
(as required at the time) to notify and get FAA OK as a Major Modification.
However, in his case, his operating limitations did not include the
authority to make major modifications and sign them off yourself - that
provision was later offered by the FAA and heeding the insurance lesson
learned - I apply for it and got it. I do follow the guidance to the letter
including the 5 hour minimum test and documentation in the aircraft log
book.
I think it would hard for an insurance company to argue against the
documentation I have from the FAA authorizing me to do and sign off Major
Modifications. They'd probably find something else {:>).
In my case, I fly with an Alternative engine - of which most of my
modifications are about - there is little (if any) knowledge the FAA would
have about a rotary engine that I don't possess. In fact, when I went to
get my original inspection - the FAA FSDO who was going to do it, declined
once he found out it wasn't a certified aircraft engine - because he
admitted he knew nothing about them. So had to go to a DAR instead. I
would agree if you only make one or two "Major" modifications in the life
time of the aircraft then the process of notifying the FAA might make good
cover-all-situations tactic. Having made over a dozen modifications
(different intake systems, gearboxes, props, exhaust, etc - its called
experimentation {:>)) I would have remained on the ground for most of the
time awaiting FAA approval. In fact, before I got the authorization, I did
mail the FAA documents on two modifications - never hear a word! I suppose
that I could continue to do that just to cover my insurance butt.{:>)
Not trying to discourage anyone from taking the notification approach
several have suggested, but think it is getting absurd that we have gotten
to the point that fear of lawyers has us even hesitating to use the
authorization and approvals we have.
Ed A
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> There was a recent article in one of the aviation magazines
> (flying, kitplanes, aopa pilot - can't recall which) which
> discussed the case of a guy not being covered in an accident
> because he made "major" modifications without notifying the
> FAA.
>
> He apparently did a lot of damage on the ground during the
> accident, and even though the crash had nothing to do with
> the supposedly "major" modifications, the insurance company
> was able to weasel out of coverage.
>
> Seemed like a very nasty situation.
>
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 Wiring
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: jim & terri truitt <jimteri1@earthlink.net>
I've never had to get out of a crashed aircraft - hope I never have to. My personal
feelings are that if I ever end upside down, I want out of the aircraft
NOW - burning or not. And I have a responsibility to get my passenger out NOW
also. Either way, your work in cut out for you (no pun intended). I feel you
need to think realistically about what kind of shape you and your cockpit may
be in when you crash. One of my considerations was that being upside down,
strapped in the seat, with possible airframe distortion, you may not have the
space or physical ability to swing one of the hatchet or hammer type tools effectively
enough to get out. I wanted something that I could be reasonably sure
I could punch through the plexiglass canopy or the aluminum skin with little
room and/or decreased strength.
That's why I have the A.S.E.K. knife made in Germany by a company called Eickhorn-Solingen
in my 8A. I bought this knife from an internet site some time ago
and I'm not sure which one and I don't remember the exact price. At the time,
I recall reading that this particular knife was supposedly designed by a U.S.
Army officer for his helicopter crews to use in combat. It has a Bowie or Tanto
style blade point (the tanto style point is VERY effective at punching through
almost anything), has a seat belt cutter slot in the blade, and has double
row of metal cutting teeth on the spine of the blade. I'm reasonably sure
this blade would not take much of a swing or thrust to get through a canopy or
skin. The only possible down side consideration with this blade is that the
seat belt cutter slot could get caught on the plexiglass as you try to retract
it after punching through. The saw cutting teeth should negate this as the teeth
could easily enlarge the slot, making retraction
easy.
There are several knives now calling themselves "ASEK". When I found the German model two years ago, there were ony one or two. The Eickorn-Solingen model is not cheap, but I like the design and it's made of quality materials. One site that has this knife is http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/ontario/asek.html. Shop around for the best price as it does vary widely from site to site.
Some guys are anal about having a good quality fire extiguisher, the best CO detector,
a parachute or whatever. I wanted a good egress tool. With a nose gear
plane, in almost any kind of crash, chances are real good I'd end upside down.
Just my $0.02.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
The Gerber Backpack mini axe is also an excellent and light weight tool for
RV extraction.
Wayne Petrus
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> What is the best tool to carry to chop your way out of an RV on its
> back?
>
> After reading how a pilot and passenger flipped their RV on it's back
> and needed to hack their way-out by breaking the canopy enough with a
> fire extinguisher, I started looking for some suitable tools. Here
> are few suggestions I found, but looking for any comments?
<several "store-bought" suggestions snipped>
As has been mentioned many times on this forum, the side-by-side RVs are
already carrying a good canopy bustin' tool. Make sure you provide for
removal of the passenger control stick; it is long enough to get both
hands on it and you should be able to ram it though the canopy. Some
builders have enhanced the ram effect by loading the bottom of the stick
with a sharpened steel slug.
The stick in my RV-6 just slips into place with no pins or such holding
it. When not in use it is clipped to the seat pan just outboard of the
passenger seat.
Sam Buchanan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ... One site that has this knife is
> http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/ontario/asek.html. Shop
> around for the best price as it does vary widely from site to site.
That's for sure! Knifecenter sells the knife for 169 USD, and
Cutlerytogo sells it for 295 USD:
http://www.cutlerytogo.com/airsuregknif.html
Looks like a nice knife.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 3/22/05 12:07:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dan@rvproject.com writes:
<< When I was building my -7 I thought the spring system was totally cheesy.
But now having flown a fair amount, the system has proven itself to be
useful, simple, lightweight, and reliable. >>
I only have 50 hours on my -6 but I am very glad that I installed the spring
aileron trim system, cheesy safety wire and all. I find that I am retrimming
for fuel burn fairly often and can get my -6 to fly pretty much hands off if I
keep it trimmed. Just my $0.02.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6 N16CX, 45+ hours.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
Sam,
That is what I intended to do.
I had just flown off my 40 hrs and took a good friend up. Tim has 4000
hrs and is experienced in many planes. At the time he owned a Hiperbipe.
He asked what I thought the actual lowest stall speed was, indicated. I
told him I wasn't exactly sure, but I was pretty sure it was 52. I had
already let Tim fly from the right seat, had he was pretty comfortable
with the plane. It was decided that he would stall the plane and I would
watch carefully to see when the actual drop occurred. When letting
someone else fly my plane I always keep my hand on the stick and feet on
the pedals just in case.
As Tim slowed the plane down slowly I kept a viligant eye on the ASI.
Right at 50 the plane broke into a stall, the nose dropped, the right
wing dropped and I expected Tim to recover. I looked over at Tim as I
was recovering the plane. His eyes were about to pop out of his head as
he showed me the stick that had come out of the socket on the passengers
side.
We did about a 1 turn spin, it corrected easily and everything was a
none event.
I should have told Tim that the stick was not pinned in, but this had
never happened before during regular flight.
That evening I rigged up a spring-pin that makes removing the stick
simple, but prevents accidental removal.
We always have a good laugh when we get to telling flying stories.
John L. Danielson
307-266-2524
johnd@wlcwyo.com
WLC, Inc.
As has been mentioned many times on this forum, the side-by-side RVs are
already carrying a good canopy bustin' tool. Make sure you provide for
removal of the passenger control stick; it is long enough to get both
hands on it and you should be able to ram it though the canopy. Some
builders have enhanced the ram effect by loading the bottom of the stick
with a sharpened steel slug.
The stick in my RV-6 just slips into place with no pins or such holding
it. When not in use it is clipped to the seat pan just outboard of the
passenger seat.
Sam Buchanan
=
=
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
That's a great story, John! :-)
I bet Tim's eyes were about as big as an old-fashioned airspeed
indicator!!!!
I have wondered about the possibility of somebody pulling the stick out
of the socket but have never had even the slightest problem in this
regard. But a smart little drop at the stall break along with "pulling"
the airplane back to flying attitude will apparently do it! (sorry for
the snickering.....just the thought of Tim's expression is hilarious...)
Oh well, another data point. :-)
Sam Buchanan
====================================
John Danielson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
>
> Sam,
> That is what I intended to do.
> I had just flown off my 40 hrs and took a good friend up. Tim has 4000
> hrs and is experienced in many planes. At the time he owned a Hiperbipe.
> He asked what I thought the actual lowest stall speed was, indicated. I
> told him I wasn't exactly sure, but I was pretty sure it was 52. I had
> already let Tim fly from the right seat, had he was pretty comfortable
> with the plane. It was decided that he would stall the plane and I would
> watch carefully to see when the actual drop occurred. When letting
> someone else fly my plane I always keep my hand on the stick and feet on
> the pedals just in case.
> As Tim slowed the plane down slowly I kept a viligant eye on the ASI.
> Right at 50 the plane broke into a stall, the nose dropped, the right
> wing dropped and I expected Tim to recover. I looked over at Tim as I
> was recovering the plane. His eyes were about to pop out of his head as
> he showed me the stick that had come out of the socket on the passengers
> side.
> We did about a 1 turn spin, it corrected easily and everything was a
> none event.
> I should have told Tim that the stick was not pinned in, but this had
> never happened before during regular flight.
> That evening I rigged up a spring-pin that makes removing the stick
> simple, but prevents accidental removal.
> We always have a good laugh when we get to telling flying stories.
>
> John L. Danielson
> 307-266-2524
> johnd@wlcwyo.com
> WLC, Inc.
>
>
> As has been mentioned many times on this forum, the side-by-side RVs are
>
> already carrying a good canopy bustin' tool. Make sure you provide for
> removal of the passenger control stick; it is long enough to get both
> hands on it and you should be able to ram it though the canopy. Some
> builders have enhanced the ram effect by loading the bottom of the stick
>
> with a sharpened steel slug.
>
> The stick in my RV-6 just slips into place with no pins or such holding
> it. When not in use it is clipped to the seat pan just outboard of the
> passenger seat.
>
> Sam Buchanan
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV-9 rear spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Callender" <tcallender@alltel.net>
> I can't see any reason I shouldn't attach the inboard aileron bracket assembly
(W913) now. Can any 9 builders confirm that?
You are correct, I used my "C-Frame" and back-revited, worked very well :-)
>
> I see that the outboard bracket (W914) has to wait till the outboard wing rib
is on but once that's done I'd like to attach that early on too. correct! After
the rib is in no reason to wait until skin is on.
> Perhaps a larger question is: Can I perform the tasks under "Finishing Rear
Spar Details" (p 7-10 in my book) during or just after the "Assembling the Wing
Skeleton" (p 7-3) operations instead of after riveting the top skin. The point
would be to have as much access as possible.
I attached the inbd & outbd flap bkts on the respective ribs before I assembled
the skeleton, much easier...Vans suggest the center bkt after skeleton assembly
for proper flap hinge alignment.
>
> Finally, my instructions and drawings don't mention anything about whether to
dimple or countersink the three 1/8 rivet holes where the W914 goes. Based on
the thickness, .040, of the material I'd say they have to be dimpled but I don't
want to risk deforming spar and doubler. So, can any of you give me some
guidance here, too?
Actually, I think c'sink or dimple would be fine, I elected to dimple the spar
and rib flg. If you c'sink the spar you wouldn't have to c'sink or dimple the
rib flg. The doubler doesn't c'sink or dimple. See dwg 11 "Rivet in assembly with
w-912-r. Flush head on rear side of W-907E Underneath"
Hope this helps
Tom C
RV9 (793JT reserved)
Lewisville NC
Message 12
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| Subject: | Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi George-
See also Harbor Freight item 46241-2NYB, motorist's emergency escape
hammer. It seems to have a double ended pointed hammer, with a hook knife
in the handle for slicing webbing. Regularly $5.99, on sale for $2.99.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I purchased several of these (some for friends) and they look to the job
just fine. It resides in the cockpit by my left knee mounted to one of the
bulkheads. Should be able to reach it upside down - hope I don't have to
find out. Can't beat the price and yes, it does have a folded blade on one
end for cutting through seat belts.
Ed Anderson
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Breaker Survival Gear
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi George-
>
> See also Harbor Freight item 46241-2NYB, motorist's emergency escape
> hammer. It seems to have a double ended pointed hammer, with a hook knife
> in the handle for slicing webbing. Regularly $5.99, on sale for $2.99.
>
>
> Glen Matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Just follow the directions and it should turn out just fine. Mine did.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
165 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: AILERON TRIM SPRINGS
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
>
> Jerry,
>
> I used R/C threaded links and ball links. The ball links get screwed into
> the actuator arm (one on each side). Then connect the balls to the
> springs
> with the quick links. Works really well and the threaded links are
> adjustable. Available at most hobby shops that deal in R/C stuff. Here
> is
> a picture of the same thing on my flap position actuator which will give
> you
> the idea.
>
> http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=148112&ck
> Hope this helps.
>
> Pat Hatch
> RV-6
> RV-7
>
>
> List:
> I am installing my aileron trim in my RV-6A. Is there something other then
> safety wire to attach the springs to the adjusting lever? It seem like it
> will
> be hard to get both side adjusted.
> Thanks
> Jerry Davis
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | GNC300, GI 106 , SL30 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "dave" <dford@michweb.net>
I thought it was possible to switch inputs to a CDI from a GPS or VOR receiver.
Below is communication with Stark Avionics saying it's not possible with the
SL30. Anyone with insight if this is correct?
Dave Ford
RV6
John,
I'll be integrating a GNC300XL and GI-106 with the SL-30.
Dave
(snip)
That can't be done. The Sl-30 can not share a CDI with the Gnc-300xl. The
OBS legs of the Sl-30 can't go through a relay of any type. John
(snip)
John,
From my understanding, others have done just that switching the inputs to
the OBS via dpdt switch. Is that what you are referring to?
Dave
(snip)
You can switch everything except the OBS. The Sl-30 looses its calibration
each time you switch and then it requires you to go through the whole
calibration procedure again.
John Stark
Stark Avionics
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar@mail.win.org>
Hello All,
What is the preferred insurance provider to use for a group of five people in an
RV-6A?
Thanks,
Paul Richardson
Do not archive
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
No one will insure 5 people in an RV-6A. It's a two-place aircraft.
Did you have any other questions for the list today?
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri & Paul Richardson <prichar@mail.win.org>
Subject: RV-List: Insurance
--> RV-List message posted by: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar@mail.win.org>
Hello All,
What is the preferred insurance provider to use for a group of five people in an
RV-6A?
Thanks,
Paul Richardson
Do not archive
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