Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: Australian RV accidents (was Canopy Breaker Survival Gear) (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have (Alex Peterson)
3. 09:32 AM - Vibration/Landoll ring (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
4. 09:47 AM - Re: Vibration/Landoll ring (Scott Vanartsdalen)
5. 10:02 AM - Re: Vibration/Landoll ring (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: Vibration/Landoll ring (Jeff Point)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: Vibration/Landoll ring (Scott Vanartsdalen)
8. 12:29 PM - Re: Wing incidence (rv6n6r@comcast.net)
9. 02:12 PM - Re: Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have (Hal Kempthorne)
10. 02:50 PM - Anyone besides me having a problem (LarryRobertHelming)
11. 03:08 PM - Re: Anyone besides me having a problem (Scott VanArtsdalen)
12. 03:41 PM - Re: Anyone besides me having a problem (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
13. 03:53 PM - Re: Anyone besides me having a problem (Darrell Reiley)
14. 04:19 PM - Air in brake line (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
15. 05:35 PM - Re: Anyone besides me having a problem (Bill Schlatterer)
16. 05:43 PM - Re:Air inbrake lines (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
17. 05:59 PM - Re:Vibration/Landol Ring (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
18. 06:12 PM - Re: Air in brake line (Walter Tondu)
19. 06:53 PM - Re: Re:Vibration/Landol Ring ()
20. 07:30 PM - Re: Air in brake line (sportav8r@aol.com)
21. 10:59 PM - Re: Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have (HCRV6@aol.com)
22. 11:09 PM - Re: Air in brake line (HCRV6@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Australian RV accidents (was Canopy Breaker Survival Gear) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Listers,
While 26 Gs sounds like a lot to a pilot, in an accident where the forces
last only a fraction of a second, the human body can stand twice that while
distributed across the seat belt and harness. I should qualify that by stating
that the crotch strap is needed because of the rearward attachment of Vans
lap belts. I'm an old race car driver (drove race cars when I was younger!)
and have hit the wall many times, and I still have all my organs!
Now, an RV or any airplane for that matter is simply not as crashworthy as a
race car. That's a fact. Compare the structures. To rationalize that it
is as crashworthy as necessary to save the pilot just is not true.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying until it went into the paint shop.)
In a message dated 3/25/05 1:39:17 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
oll@tpg.com.au writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Olsen" <oll@tpg.com.au>
From my reading.
As a result of these accidents (RV6, RV3) a report surfaced questioning
the low speed aerodynamic characteristics, whilst making a case for the need
to
strengthen the canopy deck rails of the RV's. Modifications were also
engineered.
http://www.saoginc.com/%5Cnewsletters%5C112002.htm
This was taken up with Vans who subsequently carried out testing on
the fuselage of a stock built RV-6.
Results:-
Fuselage structure withstood a static load of 26 Gs with no obvious
deformation. (a dynamic load of 26 Gs is said to cause irreparable damage
to body organs.)
Article including a letter from Vans explaining the above was published
in the June/July 2004 edition of the Sports Aircraft Association of
Australia Inc
'Airsport Magazine'
Paul Olsen
SAAA 04689
RV7 QB(emp)
Queensland Australia
Message 2
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| Subject: | Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
> --> <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
>
> Wow!......9.3 hours in an RV 6 will get some miles under your
> butt.Are you just having fun or is it business? Evan Johnson
> www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell
>
The pleasure trip was 1260 n.m. to be exact. We left Fort Myers FL at 0800
local, and landed in Minneapolis at 1745 local, elapsed time 10:45. We
stopped at Lagrange GA and Bloomington IN for fuel. I would guess the
autopilot flew 98% of the route. Each stop takes about 45 minutes shutdown
to startup, average ground speed for the elapsed time was 117 knots, average
ground speed compared to Hobbs was 135 knots, and average ground speed while
in the air was 150 knots. I fly at about 55% power with a 180hp, 7.3 GPH,
TAS about 160 knots. There were several periods where we slowed down to
about 100 knots due to visibilities in the 3 mile range, which reduced our
average speed a little.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 602 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Vibration/Landoll ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy -list,
Since painting, I've had had a very noticeable vibration between about
1000-1700 rpms on my 150 hp -6A that smoothes out nicely above about 2000 rpms
to
where it is not noticeable. Speaking with the manufacturer of my prop extension
this morning, he suggested that most imbalances can be attributed to the
spinner, which would jibe with it just being painted. Any coroborating experience
out there? Should (or can) the spinner be balanced independant of the engine
as well as in combination?
I also mentioned adding a Landoll ring (the simple weight ring- not the
damper) and he mentioned he had heard of a few flywheel failures from the
additional load on this cast part- I have never heard this before and am curious
if
there is any knowledge of this from anyone on the list?
I plan to remove the spinner and see if this is in fact where the new
vibration is from, and if so will get dynamic balancing, but unsure about installing
the Landoll ring - (yes I have seem many references over the years on the list
and in archive of pros/cons on these)
Thanks!
Mark Phillips N51PW
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vibration/Landoll ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
What kind of prop do you have? If it's wood then adding a little weight to the
ring gear does
have some beneficial flywheel charactaristics. I added Landoll's harmonic dampener
to my ring
gear. It smoothes out vibrations you would normally feel at cruise, not necessarily
at low rpms.
Though it might change vibration you feel in the RPM range you mention. It would
probably change
the frequency of the vibration but not get rid of it totally.
--- Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Howdy -list,
>
> Since painting, I've had had a very noticeable vibration between about
> 1000-1700 rpms on my 150 hp -6A that smoothes out nicely above about 2000 rpms
to
> where it is not noticeable. Speaking with the manufacturer of my prop extension
> this morning, he suggested that most imbalances can be attributed to the
> spinner, which would jibe with it just being painted. Any coroborating experience
> out there? Should (or can) the spinner be balanced independant of the engine
> as well as in combination?
>
> I also mentioned adding a Landoll ring (the simple weight ring- not the
> damper) and he mentioned he had heard of a few flywheel failures from the
> additional load on this cast part- I have never heard this before and am curious
if
> there is any knowledge of this from anyone on the list?
>
> I plan to remove the spinner and see if this is in fact where the new
> vibration is from, and if so will get dynamic balancing, but unsure about installing
> the Landoll ring - (yes I have seem many references over the years on the list
> and in archive of pros/cons on these)
>
> Thanks!
> Mark Phillips N51PW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vibration/Landoll ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 03/25/2005 11:48:07 AM Central Standard Time,
svanarts@yahoo.com writes:
What kind of prop do you have?
>>>
Hi Scott- it's a Catto 3-blade - do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vibration/Landoll ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Hi Mark,
Curious what it is you plan to accomplish by adding the Landoll weight
ring? The purpose of this ring (not the harmonic balancer) is two fold-
add weight out at the nose for aft CG issues, and add weight to the
flywheel for better flywheel inertia. Both of these are common problems
with wood props (which I have) which is what the steel ring is intended
for. I don't think it does much if anything in the way of smoothing out
vibrations.
FWIW I've nver heard of any flywheels disintegrating because of the
Landoll ring.
Have you tried running up, or even flying, without the spinner to see if
that really is the cause of the vibrations?
Jeff Point
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vibration/Landoll ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Excellent choice! I have a Catto 2 blade. If it were me I'd get the full harmonic
dampener.
Your already smooth running engine will be smootherer.
--- Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 03/25/2005 11:48:07 AM Central Standard Time,
> svanarts@yahoo.com writes:
> What kind of prop do you have?
> >>>
> Hi Scott- it's a Catto 3-blade - do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence |
0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
1.78 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS3 From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net
Bob said:
> The incidence change was done
> to preserve the light aileron forces by not squeezing the light
> aileron, which in effect makes the ailerons heavier in feel.
[snip]
> I do agree its simple to squeeze the ailerons, but all that may do is
> cover up the symptoms of a mis-rigged airplane.
Or vice versa. The technique for 'fixing' a heavy wing isn't just a matter
of squeezing the light aileron. The aileron surfaces are meant to be flat
from the leading to trailing edge bend, and any variation in this along the
length will cause a "heavy" (or light) wing. It's common for ailerons to
start out with convex or concave spots, and often just straightening those
out is enough to fix the problem. Only after doing that should one think
about going back and making further adjustments. And even then there's
always going to be some slight variation, and it takes such a small tweak to
change it, that IMHO messing with the wing incidence should only be tried as
a fix for a heavy wing after it's been determined that it would take an
overtly NON-flat aileron to fix it.
Caveat: all I know about it is with regards to RVs, not Rockets. There could
be something there that I'm missing...
Randall Henderson
RV-6
Bob said:
The incidence change was done
to preserve the light aileron forces by not squeezing the light
aileron, which in effect makes the ailerons heavier in feel.
[snip]
I do agree its simple to squeeze the ailerons, but all that may do is
cover up the symptoms of a mis-rigged airplane.
Or vice versa. The technique for 'fixing' a heavy wing isn't just a matter
of squeezing the light aileron. The aileron surfaces are meant to be flat
from the leading to trailing edge bend, and any variation in this along the
length will cause a "heavy" (or light) wing. It's common for ailerons to
start out with convex or concave spots, and often just straightening those
out is enough to fix the problem. Only after doing that should one think
about going back and making further adjustments. And even then there's
always going to be some slight variation, and it takes such a small tweak to
change it, that IMHO
messing with the wing incidence should only be tried as
a fix for a heavy wing after it's been determined that it would take an
overtly NON-flat aileron to fix it.
Caveat: all I know about it is with regards to RVs, not Rockets. There could
be something there that I'm missing...
Randall Henderson
RV-6
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne@sbcglobal.net>
If you only fly VFR, autopilot is only a convenience but if you fly IFR it is an
essential piece of equipment, especially in responsive aircraft like RV's and
Bonanzas and Debonairs.
By the way, my Debonair is for sale -- www.clikset.com
hal
N7HK RV6a 160 hrs.
Fred Stucklen <wstucklen1@cox.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen"
Paul,
I used to feel this way too, but, as I get older, I'm finding it a lot
more
enjoyable on long cross country trips to turn on the autopilot and enjoy
the ride. After two short stops, and 8 hours in the air, being "fresh"
enough
to be able to complete a 40 knot 90* crosswind at the destination is
enough reason for an autopilot....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 375+ Hrs
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs
From:
"Valovich, Paul"
--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul"
I'm in the avionics dreaming stage of my RV-8A construction. I'm
debating the advantages of an autopilot - initially, based on my
4500
hours in A-4's without an autopilot and acceptance that stabilized
wing
trim was always an impossible dream, I felt that an autopilot
wasn't
worth the hassle. I plan to do a lot of cross country flying, but
I'm
also one of those guys who doesn't defer to automobile cruise
control.
Anyone have biased opinions about RV autopilots?
Paul Valovich
RV-8A QB
Ridgecrest, CA
Message 10
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| Subject: | Anyone besides me having a problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
with getting your rv-list posts daily. Seems they quit on 3-16-05. Matt says
he has me on the list and is sending them.
do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
Message 11
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| Subject: | Anyone besides me having a problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts@yahoo.com>
No. In fact I was just thinking about how much traffic has picked up on the list.
I've received a lot more messages lately.
-----Original Message-----
From: "LarryRobertHelming"<lhelming@sigecom.net>
Sent: 3/25/05 2:45:25 PM
To: "rv-list@matronics.com"<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Anyone besides me having a problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
with getting your rv-list posts daily. Seems they quit on 3-16-05. Matt says
he has me on the list and is sending them.
do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]
Message 12
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| Subject: | Anyone besides me having a problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@Sausen.net>
Nope, coming through just fine. Make sure your email software or ISP are not filtering
it as SPAM.
Michael
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: RV-List: Anyone besides me having a problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
with getting your rv-list posts daily. Seems they quit on 3-16-05. Matt says
he has me on the list and is sending them.
do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone besides me having a problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
All is well here, on overload can't read them fast enough....
LarryRobertHelming <lhelming@sigecom.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
with getting your rv-list posts daily. Seems they quit on 3-16-05. Matt says he
has me on the list and is sending them.
do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
Darrell Reiley
Round Rock, Texas
RV 7A #70125
N622DR (reserved)
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Air in brake line |
--> RV-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
I just filled my dual (pilot and passenger) brake system and have a one inch
air bubble in one of the crossover tubes. Peddles feel solid, but it seems to
me all air should be out of the system. I know there is a discussion in the
archives, but I just cannot find it. What say you?
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6, N216PH
All electric IRF panel
Message 15
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| Subject: | Anyone besides me having a problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Seems like I'm missing all the RV7 and RV-List stuff since about that time
as well.
Bill S
7a Ark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Subject: RV-List: Anyone besides me having a problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
with getting your rv-list posts daily. Seems they quit on 3-16-05. Matt
says he has me on the list and is sending them.
do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re:Air inbrake lines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I had to bleed the last few bubbles out of our RV-4 brake lines by putting
a container under the fitting and loosening the nut to let the air leak out.
You have to push on the pedal to get pressure to force the air out.
I also built a baby food jar with a small plastic tube in the top so I could
catch the fluid coming out of the resevoir. I could alse pressurize the jar
to bleed back down.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re:Vibration/Landol Ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Like Scott, I put on the Landol Harmonic Dampener with my Pacesetter wood
prop. It smoothed out the vibration I had at cruise,the only range where I had
the vibration. I added the aerobatic ring for added strength.
I really like it better with the dampener,idle is much smoother too.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Air in brake line |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 03/25 7:17, PeterHunt1@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
>
> I just filled my dual (pilot and passenger) brake system and have a one inch
> air bubble in one of the crossover tubes. Peddles feel solid, but it seems
to
> me all air should be out of the system. I know there is a discussion in the
> archives, but I just cannot find it. What say you?
Keep pumping those brakes while you pump fluid into the line at
the wheel. Can be done by one person, but easier with two.
Eventually, they all come out. You just need a way to siphon
the extra fluid out of the reservoir as you pump fluid in to
keep from overflowing...
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re:Vibration/Landol Ring |
--> RV-List message posted by: <flynlow@usaviator.net>
Bob;
I am sorry, but I can't resist commenting on your last line. How many Real
Aviators who Fly Tail draggers have ever flown a REAL Tail dragger? I once
owned a DH82A Dehavilland Tiger Moth. It had no brakes and no tail wheel.
The "steerable" skid on the tail was the brake. Hence it was a "REAL" Tail
dragger! By the way the airspeed indicator was a flap with a scale, located
on the left wing strut. Low and Slo..... :)
Bud Silvers
Building RV-8
Colorado Springs, CO
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Air in brake line |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
I used a tube (clear polyethylene from hardware store) to conduct brake fluid from
the (opened) drain fitting on the slave cylinder back up to the reservoir
on the firewall; then pumped the brakes by foot repeatedly until the bubbles were
all purged out. The fluid just goes round and round and the bubbles escape
inside the reservoir. Simple and one-man procedure. Never had much success
trying to retrograde fill the system from below, though that's what most seem
to recommend. Encountered a check-valve problem, most likely.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Air in brake line
--> RV-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
I just filled my dual (pilot and passenger) brake system and have a one inch
air bubble in one of the crossover tubes. Peddles feel solid, but it seems to
me all air should be out of the system. I know there is a discussion in the
archives, but I just cannot find it. What say you?
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6, N216PH
All electric IRF panel
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot - To Have or Not to Have |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 3/24/05 4:16:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cwcrane@gbronline.com writes:
> <<GPS did not output the data signal by default and I had to turn it on
> using
> one of the setup items. >>
>
> I think this may be my problem. Several other listers have mentioned the
> same thing. I'll find our tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
Harry
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Air in brake line |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 3/25/05 4:20:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
PeterHunt1@aol.com writes:
> <<I just filled my dual (pilot and passenger) brake system and have a one
> inch
> air bubble in one of the crossover tubes>>
Pete: I initially had the same size bubble at the top of one of the
crossover tubes. I re-bled the brakes twice trying to get it out and finally said
the heck with it because the brakes were rock solid. After 50 hours the
bubble has gotten smaller (?) and the brakes work fine.
Harry Crosby
RV-6, 50+ hours
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