Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Silver Bullet (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
2. 05:22 AM - Blowing fuel lines (DAVID REEL)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Blowing fuel lines (Jim Oke)
4. 08:30 AM - Re: Blowing fuel lines (cgalley)
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Blowing fuel lines (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 10:29 AM - "Best" color handheld (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
7. 11:24 AM - Re: oil cooling methods ()
8. 11:28 AM - Re: "Best" color handheld (Ed Holyoke)
9. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: oil cooling methods (Alex & Gerry Peterson)
10. 01:47 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (LARRY ADAMSON)
11. 02:34 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
12. 02:54 PM - Re: oil cooling methods (Garth Shearing)
13. 03:05 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (Ed Bundy)
14. 03:22 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (Jerry Springer)
15. 04:10 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] RV-6 Crash on Otay Mountain, CA (Greg Young)
16. 05:38 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (Stein Bruch)
17. 06:08 PM - Scud Running (Paul Besing)
18. 09:05 PM - Re: Scud Running (LARRY ADAMSON)
19. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: [VAF Mailing List] RV-6 Crash on Otay Mountain, CA (RV6 Flyer)
20. 09:41 PM - Re: "Best" color handheld (Nick Nafsinger)
21. 10:03 PM - Aft Skirts (Pete Howell)
22. 11:43 PM - Re: Scud Running (Ed Holyoke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Silver Bullet |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Looks great Zack. Too bad I have something already. Next plane. Will it fit
a Rocket?
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Joseph Czachorowski"
>
>
> Guys,
>
> I like to tell you about a new, improved product for our tailwheel
> RV's. I have been flying with one as the BETA tester for some time
> now. I previously had a Jantzi tailwheel link. I liked Terry's but
> wanted something different. I asked my brother (who has a machine
> shop) to make me a tailwheel linkage that was corrosion resistant
> and lighter and would last a long time. The result is what he calls
> the "Silver Bullet". His company is called, "RIVETHEAD." I liked
> the feel and response from the new "Silver Bullet" so much that I
> asked him to produce it for us tailwheel RV'ers.
>
> Take a look at the link below. It's nice to have choices.
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/
>
> Joe "Zack" Czachorowski
> RV8 #80125
> 810hrs!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Looks great Zack. Too bad I have something already. Next plane. Will it fit a Rocket?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Joseph Czachorowski" <ZACKRV8@VERIZON.NET>
Guys,
I like to tell you about a new, improved product for our tailwheel
RV's. I have been flying with one as the BETA tester for some time
now. I previously had a Jantzi tailwheel link. I liked Terry's but
wanted something different. I asked my brother (who has a machine
shop) to make me a tailwheel linkage that was corrosion resistant
and lighter and would last a long time. The result is what he calls
the "Silver Bullet". His company is called, "RIVETHEAD." I liked
the feel and response from the new "Silver Bullet" so much that I
asked him to produce it for us tailwheel RV'ers.
Take a look at the link below. It's nice to
have choices.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6vuex/
Joe "Zack" Czachorowski
RV8 #80125
810hrs!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Blowing fuel lines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
A recent post advocated blowing out the fuel tank line during condition inspection
to clear any debris that might be partially clogging the pickup tube. After
some thought, I can't see any practical utility to this procedure as the clogging
material will still be in the fuel tank & will shortly return to the low
point and re-clog the pickup tube. But maybe I don't understand the procedure
so would somebody enlighten me please?
How do the rest of you ensure that the pickup is clear during inspection? Pull
the fuel drains? I've never done one so ....
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blowing fuel lines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Well, how about vacuuming out the tanks, fuel lines, etc. as they are closed
out?
A shop vac with a homemade extension made out of leftover 3/8' fuel line
added to the nozzle will provide lots of suction, go around corners and
into small areas, etc. to get rid of any filings, metal bits, etc. left
behind.
Jim Oke
RV-6A
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Blowing fuel lines
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
> A recent post advocated blowing out the fuel tank line during condition
> inspection to clear any debris that might be partially clogging the pickup
> tube. After some thought, I can't see any practical utility to this
> procedure as the clogging material will still be in the fuel tank & will
> shortly return to the low point and re-clog the pickup tube. But maybe I
> don't understand the procedure so would somebody enlighten me please?
>
> How do the rest of you ensure that the pickup is clear during inspection?
> Pull the fuel drains? I've never done one so ....
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Blowing fuel lines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Only use this method BEFORE putting any gas in the tank!
Afterwards even the fumes will explode from the sparks of the vac motor.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Blowing fuel lines
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
> Well, how about vacuuming out the tanks, fuel lines, etc. as they are
> closed
> out?
>
> A shop vac with a homemade extension made out of leftover 3/8' fuel line
> added to the nozzle will provide lots of suction, go around corners and
> into small areas, etc. to get rid of any filings, metal bits, etc. left
> behind.
>
> Jim Oke
> RV-6A
> Wpg., MB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
> To: "rvlist" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Blowing fuel lines
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>>
>> A recent post advocated blowing out the fuel tank line during condition
>> inspection to clear any debris that might be partially clogging the
>> pickup
>> tube. After some thought, I can't see any practical utility to this
>> procedure as the clogging material will still be in the fuel tank & will
>> shortly return to the low point and re-clog the pickup tube. But maybe I
>> don't understand the procedure so would somebody enlighten me please?
>>
>> How do the rest of you ensure that the pickup is clear during inspection?
>> Pull the fuel drains? I've never done one so ....
>>
>> Dave Reel - RV8A
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Blowing fuel lines |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 4/23/05 7:24:06 AM Central Daylight Time, dreel@cox.net
writes:
> But maybe I don't understand the procedure so would somebody enlighten me
> please?
>>>>>
The sump drains on most RVs are directly below the pickup tube inlet-
blow/drain/blow/drain til clear. If you've been concientions about what goes in
the
tank, you really shouldn't see very much anyway, but at least you know the gas
will suck (into the tube, that is... 8-)
Mark
Message 6
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| Subject: | "Best" color handheld |
1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I'm look for a color display hand held capable of driving my AP.
Has anyone had a chance to compare side by side the lowrance 2000c and the garmin
296? I like the larger display size of the lowrance but the display resolution
seems lacking by comparison. Anyone fly with the 2000c and can judge its
moving map *smoothness* & latency on updating the display?
One much easier to operate with one hand (flying) than the other?
Anyone know if either company is coming out soon with yet another model?
Anything new spotted at SNF?
I'm look for a color display hand held capable of driving my AP.
Has anyone had a chance to compare side by side the lowrance 2000c and the garmin
296? I like the larger display size of the lowrance but the display resolution
seems lacking by comparison. Anyone fly with the 2000c and can judge its moving
map *smoothness* latency on updating the display?
One much easier to operate with one hand (flying) than the other?
Anyone know if either company is coming out soon with yet another model?
Anything new spotted at SNF?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooling methods |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Re: oil cooling methods
RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W
>When I called the Niagara people about changing coolers, I was told that
I
>should have at least a 4" SCAT tube, preferably a 6". I'm thinking that
taking
>that much air from the top of the engine would introduce engine cooling
issues.
Yes 3" dia is way too small. That is why Van's firewall oil cooler kit causes some
grief.
If you look at the air needed and engineer a duct to provide all the flow the cooler
can use, a 3" tube is too small, given common assumptions. Add the fact
SCAT tube has a rough inside finish and the airbox attached to the oil cooler
(plenum) are typically real bad. The airbox/plenum in Van's kit has a small volume
and square corners. Also what is the airflow at the oil coolers exit. You
could have local airflow under the cowl blocking the exit air of the cooler.
That will cause a problem. Consider a large volume duct routed to a low pressure
area near the cowl exit. Last, the Niagara is not real efficient; although
the SW coolers cost a mint they are much better heat exchangers. I say trade up
to a SW, install 4" duct (smooth inside diameter using silicon couples and straight
pipe made of aluminum or fiberglass). Also the inlet and outlet should
have no sharp corners, smooth throats (bell mouth), tapered sides and/or large
volume. Don't use the Van's kit. Make your own airb
ox for
the OC that has tapered sides and much deeper. If made of fiberglass you can make
a cool smooth shape. You can just add the "6 duct to overcome all the inefficiency
of the basic set up. You really are not flowing that much because of
all the restrictions, but this is not a good way to go IMHO. It may be hard to
rout a 6" duct and not needed. From my claculation the ideal dia was around 4.5
inches assuming a smooth duct and no negative back pressue at the exit.
>"I'm now considering a NACA vent off the left lower cowl....."
Don't do it, you will add un-needed drag (ref: Speed with Economy). Dumping high
flow air into the bottom of the cowl from the outside will add more drag and
reduce air flowing thru the engine. Also unless you know where the air pressure
is you may get little air from your NACA scoop. You already have cowl inlets
of enough area using the stock cowl to cool the engine and also feed the oil
cooler. If you are worried about starving the rear cylinder for air, make you
OC duct inlet closer to the middle of the rear baffle. You could add some internal
baffles or snorkel to feed the cooler inlet from both sides of the engine.
Read Speed with economy. I also recommend using a pressure plenum. You will
always have more leakage with the soft seal against the upper cowl, per the stock
set up. A seal that has flipped back can cause large air loss and add cooling
drag of 50%. Since you have an O-320, I would check your gage since you should
not see these high temps even with an ineffic
ient set
up. It could be off. It tends to be the IO-360 (200hp) engines running hot, not
O-320s.
Cheers George
PS: I am big fan of NOT mounting coolers directly off the rear baffle. The fire
wall mount can be made to work, but recommend a middle ground. Mount the cooler
off the rear baffle support by the engine mount. This allows vibration free
mount for the cooler, no high fatigue stress cracks of the baffle and cooler,
while keeping the duct to min length. Also the exit air flow should be at worst
neutral in this area of the cowl. G
==========================
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 375 Hrs
<Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com> Subject: oil cooling methods
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Bob,
I have a 13 bay classic mounted on the firewall, with a 3" SCAT tube from #4 cylinder
on my RV-6A, O-320-D1A ... I'm finding that it's not getting enough air
to sufficiently cool the oil on hot days (OAT > 95*F). Oil temps go up to 230*F
under those conditions.
When I called the Niagara people about changing coolers, I was told that I should
have at least a 4" SCAT tube, preferably a 6". I'm thinking that taking that
much air from the top of the engine would introduce engine cooling issues.
I'm now considering a NACA vent off the left lower cowl.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 375 Hrs
Message 8
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| Subject: | "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hey Lucky,
I can't say about the Lowrance, but I just got done flying the 296
across the country and back and I like it a lot. When you're buzzing
along at 175 kts at 1500 AGL under a deck and there's a row 1500 ft high
towers in your path, it pops up a little window for terrain alert which
is very timely. That's worth the cost of admission right there. It's
handy to highlight special use airspace along the route and see the
floor and ceiling altitudes so you can decide to communicate or divert.
The data available onscreen is very good too except that I'd like to see
the proper frequencies for ATC displayed for classes c and b by sector.
It gives lots of info about airports including runways and frequencies.
I used it to highlight airports near my route and get ASOS or AWOS or
ATIS freqs to update my altimeter setting and get wind and ceiling
reports. It doesn't give you TPA and traffic direction at airports
though so you'll still need your flight guide. It's pretty easy to use
but I did have to read the manual to figure out a couple of things.
Overall rating: not perfect but very very good.
Ed Holyoke
Back in SoCal from Sun'N'Fun
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky
Subject: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I'm look for a color display hand held capable of driving my AP.
Has anyone had a chance to compare side by side the lowrance 2000c and
the garmin 296? I like the larger display size of the lowrance but the
display resolution seems lacking by comparison. Anyone fly with the
2000c and can judge its moving map *smoothness* & latency on updating
the display?
One much easier to operate with one hand (flying) than the other?
Anyone know if either company is coming out soon with yet another model?
Anything new spotted at SNF?
I'm look for a color display hand held capable of driving my AP.
Has anyone had a chance to compare side by side the lowrance 2000c and
the garmin 296? I like the larger display size of the lowrance but the
display resolution seems lacking by comparison. Anyone fly with the
2000c and can judge its moving map *smoothness* latency on updating the
display?
One much easier to operate with one hand (flying) than the other?
Anyone know if either company is coming out soon with yet another model?
Anything new spotted at SNF?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooling methods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex & Gerry Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Yes 3" dia is way too small. That is why Van's firewall oil
> cooler kit causes some grief.
>
> If you look at the air needed and engineer a duct to provide
> all the flow the cooler can use, a 3" tube is too small,
> given common assumptions.
I am running a 3" SCAT from above the #4 baffle, and have no oil cooling
problems. I have a 180hp, RV6A. The 3" SCAT comes into the baffle at about
a 45 degree angle, which allows it to pass through the motor mount. I have
the cooler mounted on the firewall, with a little aluminum plenum I built to
transition from the 3" round to the cooler. I also built a cockpit
controllable throttle in the plenum, something I highly recommend for anyone
who flies in air cooler than about 30 degrees. If I climb on a hot day,
from 900' to 8500', I might see the oil exceed 200 - 210F, but on leveling
out it drops right back to vernatherm temps of about 185. My cooler is
Niagara. Hottest OAT I've flown in is around 95F, and I was the one who
needed a cooler.
So, as always, many variables at work. But, 3" SCAT is not necessarily too
small. Remember, excess cooling means slower flight.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 610 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
KitPlanes (Feb. 2005) did a side by side comparison of the 296 and Airmap 2000c.
They gave the nod to Garmin although it was much more expensive at the time;
and now it's $200 less. Garmin ranked higher for terrain detail, terrain warning,
resolution, and simpler operating system. The article stated that it was
much easier to define different colored areas such as Class B boundaries, thanks
to higher resolution.
I went with the Garmin 206 after a lot of research, and it will be connected to
my not yet flying Trio EZ pilot A/P. A power/data cable is purchased separately
for less than 30 bucks.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
copy. i just bought a 296 this afternoon. WARNING or GOOD NEWS, when I make a
purchase the company usually announces soon afterwards a new and better product
is now available and the model I just bought is now obsolete and is on sale...
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ed Holyoke
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke"
>
> KitPlanes (Feb. 2005) did a side by side comparison of the 296 and Airmap 2000c.
> They gave the nod to Garmin although it was much more expensive at the time;
and
> now it's $200 less. Garmin ranked higher for terrain detail, terrain warning,
> resolution, and simpler operating system. The article stated that it was much
> easier to define different colored areas such as Class B boundaries, thanks to
> higher resolution.
> I went with the Garmin 206 after a lot of research, and it will be connected
to
> my not yet flying Trio EZ pilot A/P. A power/data cable is purchased separately
> for less than 30 bucks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
copy. i just bought a 296 this afternoon. WARNING or GOOD NEWS, when I make a purchase
the company usually announces soon afterwardsa new and better product
is now available and the model I just bought is now obsolete and is on sale...
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <RVHI03@MSN.COM>
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
-- RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <BICYCLOP@PACBELL.NET>
KitPlanes (Feb. 2005) did a side by side comparison of the 296 and Airmap 2000c.
They gave the nod to Garmin although it was much more expensive at the time; and
now it's $200 less. Garmin ranked higher for terrain detail, terrain warning,
resolution, and simpler operating system. The article stated that it was much
easier to define different colored areas such as Class B boundaries, thanks to
higher resolution.
I went with the Garmin 206 afte
r a lot of research, and it will be connected to
my not yet flying Trio EZ pilot A/P. A power/data cable is purchased separately
for less than 30 bucks.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: oil cooling methods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Garth Shearing" <Garth@islandnet.com>
Eventually I would like to try an alternative oil cooling arrangement for my
RV6A (when it's finished) which may have already been done by others on this
list. So here is a suggestion:
Mount the oil cooler flat on the firewall at the bottom right hand corner of
the firewall just above the engine mount. Build an aluminum or stainless
expansion duct between the lower cowling and the oil cooler with an
expansion ratio of about 4 to 1. The entry on the cowling could be a NACA
inlet or male scoop. The expansion duct would not be fixed to the cowling
for easy cowling removal. Use rubber seals where required. Cut a hole in
the firewall to match the oil cooler fin area. Build a reverse duct in the
area between the firewall and the rudder pedals to speed the exit cooling
air back up to airspeed. This 3 to 1 duct would exit into the airstream
directly out of the bottom of the aircraft with a smooth transition. A
balanced pilot-controlled air vane could be installed in the duct on the
cabin side of the firewall. The exit duct may have to be insulated for
summer comfort. This would result in very high cooling efficiencies while
minimizing cooling drag. At the same time, no cooling air is robbed from
the cylinder head cooling system.
I've built water and oil cooling systems like this for my VariEze with very
good results. Has anyone done this on an RV6 or similarly-configured
homebuilt?
Cheers.
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 90% RV6A
Victoria BC Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "rv6fly" <rv6fly@bresnan.net>
Subject: RV-List: oil cooling methods
> --> RV-List message posted by: rv6fly <rv6fly@bresnan.net>
>
> My friend's (Larry), 6A has a firewall mounted oil cooler. I imagine
> the standard source of cool air for the cooler would be SCAT tubing from
> the baffle behind cylinder #4. Years ago while helping with another 6A
> I toyed with the idea of taking the cooling air from a NACA vent on the
> left side of the cowl with the idea of keeping all of the air coming in
> the cowl inlet for cylinder cooling instead of bleeding off air behind
> #4 for the oil cooler. The downside would be having to undo a clamp
> before being able to drop the bottom cowl.
> As a lot of my RV knowledge is not up to date, I thought I'd check
> current thingking on this.
> Also, what's the latest on mechanical fuel pump cooling and alternator
> cooling both of which I did when I built my 6.
>
> Bob Skinner
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@speedyquick.net>
That's good to hear. I've been waiting on trading up from a 196 because I'm
usually the one that triggers a new product. I bought a gps pilot III a
month before they announced the 196, and bought a 196 just weeks before they
announced the 296.
Thanks for taking the bullet on this one, I'll wait a few more weeks. <g>
Ed Bundy - RV6A
Eagle, Idaho
> copy. i just bought a 296 this afternoon. WARNING or GOOD NEWS,
> when I make a purchase the company usually announces soon
> afterwards a new and better product is now available and the
> model I just bought is now obsolete and is on sale...
>
> lucky
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Ed Bundy wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@speedyquick.net>
>
>That's good to hear. I've been waiting on trading up from a 196 because I'm
>usually the one that triggers a new product. I bought a gps pilot III a
>month before they announced the 196, and bought a 196 just weeks before they
>announced the 296.
>
>Thanks for taking the bullet on this one, I'll wait a few more weeks. <g>
>
>Ed Bundy - RV6A
>Eagle, Idaho
>
>
Hi Ed,
So you are the guy, that triggers the price drops:-) I bought a New
Pilot III a year ago Feb for $499.00 and less than a month later
they dropped the price $100.00 to $399.00. It is a great little GPS but
I finally upgraded to a Garmin 295
which works great with my Navaid. It tracks much better than it did
coupled to my panel mount "Flybuddy" GPS.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: [VAF Mailing List] RV-6 Crash on Otay Mountain, CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
This was a friend and fellow list member, Bill Bishop. He is in serious
but stable condition after surgery last night. You may also recognize
him as half of the Bill-Squared flight from the Bahamas RV trip article
in Sport Aviation. He and the other Bill were on their return to Houston
from a trip to Baja. I don't have any additional details on the accident
and won't speculate on cause. At least what's in the news stories
appears reasonably accurate, except it's a -6A. I know you'll join me in
wishing Bill a complete and speedy recovery. I'll post updates when I
get them.
Regards,
Greg Young
>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050423-9999-1m23crash.html
>
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4409122/detail.html
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I thought I was the cause of new GPS's and other products appearing in the
market.....now I'm wondering :)
I bought my 196, and exactly 2 days after I received it, out comes the
newfangled "color one"! Same thing happened on my RV6. Just received my
kit, then 1 week later Van's announces the RV7.
Oh well, I'm love both my RV6 and my Grayscale 196!
That being said, the little Lowrance & AvMap's are great color units as
well!
Cheers,
Stein
Do Not Archive!
P.S., people should also follow my stock picking advice.....buy when I sell
and sell when I buy!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Bundy
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@speedyquick.net>
That's good to hear. I've been waiting on trading up from a 196 because I'm
usually the one that triggers a new product. I bought a gps pilot III a
month before they announced the 196, and bought a 196 just weeks before they
announced the 296.
Thanks for taking the bullet on this one, I'll wait a few more weeks. <g>
Ed Bundy - RV6A
Eagle, Idaho
> copy. i just bought a 296 this afternoon. WARNING or GOOD NEWS,
> when I make a purchase the company usually announces soon
> afterwards a new and better product is now available and the
> model I just bought is now obsolete and is on sale...
>
> lucky
--
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <paul@kitlog.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
When you're buzzing
along at 175 kts at 1500 AGL under a deck and there's a row 1500 ft high
towers in your path, it pops up a little window for terrain alert which
is very timely. That's worth the cost of admission right there. --->
Before someone jumps my case, understand this IS NOT a flame by any means,
but an observation:
Sorry, but as a CFII I have to chime in here. While that may be a worth
while feature, buzzing along at 1500' AGL under a cloud deck and using a GPS
to tell you where towers are, is not the best advice to be publishing in a
public forum. (Not to mention, isn't the smartest thing to do anyway,
remember Bill Benedict? It may be speculation, but it sounded like scud
running to me)
It makes my stomach cringe when people scud run that low to the ground, with
potentially rising terrain and lowering clouds. I've already lost one
fellow Army pilot and friend to that, and don't want to hear of another.
Get an instrument rating and punch in the clouds, or turn around. Staying
under the deck at 1500' AGL is asking for trouble.
Off the soapbox now...
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
Kitlog Builder's Software
www.kitlog.com
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Scud Running |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
Subject: RV-List: Scud Running
Just after the Garmin 296 became available, I remember reading an article titled
"A Case for a GPS". A single engine airplane had a total engine failure over
mountainous area in which the lower portions were obscured by clouds. A controller
was attempting to direct the plane to the valley below, but it hit a rising
peak on the mountain slope, that could have been avoided by gliding a few
hundred feet to the side. Turns out the Garmin had/has enough terrain information
to avoid this specific rising terrain.
Two years ago, a CFII in my area, along with an pilot working for an instrument
rating, took off for a moonless night cross country, in which the plan was to
activate an IFR flight while in route. Flying at approx. 8500', they were suddenly
thrust into the pines and deep snow on the edge of a lower ridgeline. The
terrain actually exceeds 9500' msl at it's highest point. Somehow, both had
neglected this mountain in their path to the VOR where they had planned to activate
the IFR clearance while performing their on the ground flight planning.
They had a GPS, but "no" terrain depiction or terrain warning. Luckily, they
both survived, and their cell phone worked in this location. It was around 10:30
PM, and below freezing.
Now wouldn't you know it. A friend of mine and I, decided to fly (re-create) this
exact route in the daytime in an RV9A, with a 296 aboard. I can tell you right
now, that this GPS does as advertised, and would have warned these two pilots
well ahead of time. In this case, we had a CFII and an instrument flight plan,
but a mis-managed thought process during flight planning. Could have just
been the time of night, and urge to get home (approx 250 miles). But never the
less, the Garmin 296 could have saved the day, for the un-expected!
I'm not saying, that I'd be buzzing towers either, but am using two examples where
this terrain warning system is very worth while.
Larry Adamson --- KSLC
>When you're buzzing
>along at 175 kts at 1500 AGL under a deck and there's a row 1500 ft high
>towers in your path, it pops up a little window for terrain alert which
>is very timely. That's worth the cost of admission right there. --->
>Before someone jumps my case, understand this IS NOT a flame by any means,
>but an observation:
>Sorry, but as a CFII I have to chime in here. While that may be a worth
>while feature, buzzing along at 1500' AGL under a cloud deck and using a GPS
>to tell you where towers are, is not the best advice to be publishing in a
>public forum. (Not to mention, isn't the smartest thing to do anyway,
>remember Bill Benedict? It may be speculation, but it sounded like scud
>running to me)
>It makes my stomach cringe when people scud run that low to the ground, with
>potentially rising terrain and lowering clouds. I've already lost one
>fellow Army pilot and friend to that, and don't want to hear of another.
>Get an instrument rating and punch in the clouds, or turn around. Staying
>under the deck at 1500' AGL is asking for trouble.
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: [VAF Mailing List] RV-6 Crash on Otay Mountain, CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Bill Bishop status from SoCAL Wing Van's Air Force Group
--- In SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com, "Paul A. Rosales" <rosales@b...>
wrote:
>I'm just in from San Diego (Montgomery Field) and flew in with Trish
>Russell (lead), Gary Sobek and Laird Owens. Many thanks to Ed Perry for the
>pickup/delivery. After getting past the receptionist (who would not even
>say if he was admitted because Billy is a trauma patient), I talked with
>the admitting charge nurse. After explaining we were his friends and that
>we'd flown in from all over California, she caved in with some information.
>
>I got hold of Bill Hicks who came down to meet us, and Bill filled us in;
>Billy has two broken legs with splints below both knees (one leg was a
>compound fracture). The right arm is completely immobilized as is the left
>wrist. Billy also numerous stitches to the head, and there is not a part on
>his body that is not bruised or cut. CAT scans of the brain all appear
>normal, and today he is heavily sedated. He's still in critical condition
>but stable (blood pressure 120/80). No internal injuries that we know of,
>thank goodness.
>
>There is still one more surgery for the left wrist to come. He's still not
>out of the woods, and we are hoping in 2 more days, he'll probably be over
>the 'hump'. Billy will be at Scripps Mercy Hospital for the foreseeable
>future, and I will get an address/room number out when it becomes
>available.
>
>From what Ed Perry saw on TV, the Fire Chief who got to the wreckage first
>yelled out to the others something like 'This is a bad one, call the
>coroner", and Billy yells out "Hey, I'm alive...get me out of here.." and
>even gave some direction on how to get him out. Estimates are that he was
>trapped upside down in the plane for about 45 to an hour.
>
>I will keep you all posted via the list, and for now, please keep Billy in
>your prayers, Rosie
From: "Howard Long" <helong51@verizon.net>
Subject: RV6A -- San Diego Area helong51
Some more info ....
I was assigned to work the midshift, 4/22 at LA Center. When I arrived and
was briefed, I was told about the RV crash near SDM, and told that the pilot
had been rescued and taken to a hospital. Each center has the responsibility
for search and rescue coordination for their underlying airspace. The Ops
Manager that I was relieving (not a pilot) had received an initial call from
SoCal TRACON, about the missing aircraft report, and possible ELT in the
area. They told him that a helicopter was being dispatched, but he went
ahead and called Air Force Search and Rescue, and they started the process
to look for the aircraft via message queries to airports along the suspected
route of flight (it's called an ALNOT), Flight Service checks to see if they
had received any calls from the missing aircraft, and notification of CAP
(civil air patrol). SoCal called back shortly to inform him that the crash
site had been found, and the process was halted. Incidentally, we never did
have a satellite 'hit' from his ELT. It must have been turned off before it
passed overhead. We had already received other ELT reports in the area
between JLI - TRM - OCN, so we were already soliciting checks looking for
that one, and it might have slowed us down in responding to the crash site
ELT, thinking that it was the same one. I received a call from Air Force
Rescue about 1230am asking for more ELT checks -- we did not receive any ELT
signals at that point-- and the record was closed out (they suspected that
the ELT had been at Ramona Airport and had been turned off). Moral of the
story -- check 121.5 regularly -- advise ATC if you hear an ELT --- and
check prior to aircraft shutdown to make sure your own has not been set off.
The quick response was thanks to Bill reporting the aircraft missing, and
the immediate response from the FD helicopter in San Diego. I wish I could
say that the response is always that immediate, but it hasn't been, in my
experience.
Howard Long, LA Center
(part of the message was cut off)
Incidentally, we never did have a sattelite 'hit' from his ELT. It must have
been turned off before it passed overhead. We had already received other ELT
reports in the area between JLI - TRM - OCN, so we were already soliciting
checks looking for that one, and it might have slowed us down in responding
to the crash site ELT, thinking that it was the same one. I received a call
from Air Force Rescue about 1230am asking for more ELT checks -- we did not
receive any ELT signals at that point-- and the record was closed out (they
suspected that the ELT had been at Ramona Airport and had been turned off).
Moral of the story -- check 121.5 regularly -- advise ATC if you hear an ELT
--- and check prior to aircraft shutdown to make sure your own has not been
set off. The quick response was thanks to Bill reporting the aircraft
missing, and the immediate response from the FD helicopter in San Diego. I
wish I could say that the response is always that immediate, but it hasn't
been, in my experience.
Howard Long, LA Center
Now my additional comment:
One thing that Bill Hicks told us, was that Bill Bishop's son was in Iraq.
Those of us that was at Bill's birthday breakfast, remember Bill getting a
cell phone call from his son in Iraq. Well according to Bill Hicks, Bill
Bishop's son is due back in the states at the end of the month. It appears
that Uncle Sam is sending him back today as it was reported he arrives in
San Diego this evening.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,660 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: RV-List: RE: [VAF Mailing List] RV-6 Crash on Otay Mountain, CA
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
This was a friend and fellow list member, Bill Bishop. He is in serious
but stable condition after surgery last night. You may also recognize
him as half of the Bill-Squared flight from the Bahamas RV trip article
in Sport Aviation. He and the other Bill were on their return to Houston
from a trip to Baja. I don't have any additional details on the accident
and won't speculate on cause. At least what's in the news stories
appears reasonably accurate, except it's a -6A. I know you'll join me in
wishing Bill a complete and speedy recovery. I'll post updates when I
get them.
Regards,
Greg Young
>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050423-9999-1m23crash.html
>
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4409122/detail.html
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | "Best" color handheld |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Nick Nafsinger" <nick@creteaviation.com>
All you guys with 'old' (yes, I'm one as well) 196's... If you havn't
added the Obstical database yet, DO IT. Best $35 I've ever spent.
Nick Nafsinger
CFII
Park Rapids, MN
218.255.2768
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I thought I was the cause of new GPS's and other products appearing in
the
market.....now I'm wondering :)
I bought my 196, and exactly 2 days after I received it, out comes the
newfangled "color one"! Same thing happened on my RV6. Just received
my
kit, then 1 week later Van's announces the RV7.
Oh well, I'm love both my RV6 and my Grayscale 196!
That being said, the little Lowrance & AvMap's are great color units as
well!
Cheers,
Stein
Do Not Archive!
P.S., people should also follow my stock picking advice.....buy when I
sell
and sell when I buy!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Bundy
Subject: RE: RV-List: "Best" color handheld
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@speedyquick.net>
That's good to hear. I've been waiting on trading up from a 196 because
I'm
usually the one that triggers a new product. I bought a gps pilot III a
month before they announced the 196, and bought a 196 just weeks before
they
announced the 296.
Thanks for taking the bullet on this one, I'll wait a few more weeks.
<g>
Ed Bundy - RV6A
Eagle, Idaho
> copy. i just bought a 296 this afternoon. WARNING or GOOD NEWS,
> when I make a purchase the company usually announces soon
> afterwards a new and better product is now available and the
> model I just bought is now obsolete and is on sale...
>
> lucky
--
--
--
Message 21
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Hello,
Anybody have any neat tricks to get the proper curve in the aft slider
skirts? I have the tops nailed, but the twist along the bottom part is
vexing.
Cheers,
Pete Howell
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hey Paul,
No flame taken. I was pointing out a feature on the GPS which could help
to save somebody's bacon at some point. I don't advocate scud running.
Just so you understand, I was talking to Savannah approach at the time
who warned me of the towers soon after I saw them and about the same
time that the terrain window popped up. The visibility was 10 miles and
the terrain (other than towers) was well - flat. Incidentally, ATC said
not a word about the restricted area that I had to skate within a half
mile of while giving berth to the towers and their invisible guy wires.
I wonder if they would have violated me.
I didn't really consider this flight to be a scud run. I saw it as a VFR
flight in less than severe clear conditions. I tried to remain aware of
the nearest airports and to keep options open. I monitored the fuel
totalizer to make sure we had an adequate reserve. If I had thought that
conditions were getting too bad, I would have diverted and/or landed.
Earlier in the flight, we were on top of a broken layer which went
solid. That made me very tense and a diversion to find a hole and
descend was the better option in my opinion. I don't yet have an
instrument rating and I did recently add an attitude indicator and wing
leveler to the panel for insurance as well as the new GPS. No, I don't
consider that a substitute for a rating and a clearance. On the other
hand, if the conditions are doable and the forecast is for improvement
along the route and you're not seeing evidence of worsening conditions,
then perhaps it's not totally foolhardy to proceed.
As I remember the Bill and Jeremy Benedict accident, they were in an
airplane with no AI or autopilot and in hilly terrain when they got
themselves into trouble. I don't think I'm smarter or better than them
by any means. I just don't think that the situations were equivalent.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Subject: RV-List: Scud Running
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <paul@kitlog.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
When you're buzzing
along at 175 kts at 1500 AGL under a deck and there's a row 1500 ft high
towers in your path, it pops up a little window for terrain alert which
is very timely. That's worth the cost of admission right there. --->
Before someone jumps my case, understand this IS NOT a flame by any
means,
but an observation:
Sorry, but as a CFII I have to chime in here. While that may be a worth
while feature, buzzing along at 1500' AGL under a cloud deck and using a
GPS
to tell you where towers are, is not the best advice to be publishing in
a
public forum. (Not to mention, isn't the smartest thing to do anyway,
remember Bill Benedict? It may be speculation, but it sounded like scud
running to me)
It makes my stomach cringe when people scud run that low to the ground,
with
potentially rising terrain and lowering clouds. I've already lost one
fellow Army pilot and friend to that, and don't want to hear of another.
Get an instrument rating and punch in the clouds, or turn around.
Staying
under the deck at 1500' AGL is asking for trouble.
Off the soapbox now...
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
Kitlog Builder's Software
www.kitlog.com
do not archive
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