Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Re: Belt Sander Question & Tool Resource (Jeff Point)
2. 04:04 AM - 9 vs 6 experience (WALTER B KERR)
3. 05:54 AM - magneto's check on EIS (bertrv6@highstream.net)
4. 07:52 AM - Re: magneto's check on EIS (Bill VonDane)
5. 09:08 AM - Re: magneto's check on EIS (Jeff Point)
6. 09:57 AM - Re: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion protection (MLWynn@aol.com)
7. 10:17 AM - Re: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion protection (James Ochs)
8. 12:58 PM - Aluminum Air Vents (Paul Trotter)
9. 01:34 PM - Re: Aluminum Air Vents (rv6fly)
10. 02:53 PM - Re: magneto's check on EIS (Greg Young)
11. 03:00 PM - Re: magneto's check on EIS (Dwpetrus@aol.com)
12. 04:29 PM - Re: Aluminum Air Vents (Jeff Point)
13. 05:18 PM - Re: Aluminum Air Vents (Charlie Kuss)
14. 06:16 PM - Re: Belt Sander Question & Tool Resource (Mark Grieve)
15. 06:59 PM - Re: Aluminum Air Vents (Stein Bruch)
16. 07:09 PM - Re: Aluminum Air Vents (Michel)
17. 07:38 PM - Re: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion (Mark Grieve)
18. 07:58 PM - Garmin 196 Obstacle (Larry Bowen)
19. 08:39 PM - Re: Garmin 196 Obstacle (Michael Hilger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Belt Sander Question & Tool Resource |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I said that somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However I think the stiffeners
area good example of where a wider belt is handy, to do the whole edge
of the part at once. You can do this with the one inch belts, but I
think the wider belts make it easier.
Jeff
Mark Grieve wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
>
>Oh yes, you still have to shape parts on the 7. Rudder and elevator
>stiffeners for example.
>MG
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | 9 vs 6 experience |
--> RV-List message posted by: WALTER B KERR <jbker@juno.com>
I have built both and flew the 6A 400 + hours mostly CC, no aerobatics.
Now have flown the 9A for 30 hours and it definitely is more stable( OK
,less responsive to you jet jock types). Tom Green and Van both concede
that it is more comfortable on long CC. I have not mastered getting it to
land as accurately as the 6. The thing just will not tolerate extra speed
or it will not quit flying compared to the 6A which bled speed rapidly on
the backside of the power curve.
Bernie Kerr, 13B Mazda in my 9A
Blah! I've been doing my homework and obviously the 9 is going to be an
easier-to-fly IFR bird, with 3x the stick force for one thing.
I sent my 7A QB order form in yesterday. Well, it's certainly not too
late. I
can call them on Monday. I am waiting for 2 months for shipping for my
house
to be done anyway. I will probably call them and ask them to hold off
altogether for a bit. "Easy" IFR flying means a lot more to me than
10mph and
aerobatic capability I will probably never use.
Funny thing is the 9A is the first kitplane I ever wanted. If I end up
building one, I have certainly come full circle.
--- Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
>
> All I know is that when I ordered my 9 tail kit, Tom Green told me that
> whenever the company folks went X-C, if they had their choice, they ALL
> took the 9. That was before the 10 was flying.
>
>
> Richard Scott
> 9A Wings
Message 3
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| Subject: | magneto's check on EIS |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
Any one with the E.I.S. From Grand Rapids, might know the answer to
my question.
When I am doing the run-up, and check Mags, for drop..the Engine Monitor
shows Zero...when switching from L to R.
Of course I change the INdividual switch one has, up for the L and down
for the R mag..
Otherwise everything shows OK..
Any answers to this ?
Thanks
Bertrv6a
Starting my Flight Test...
Do NOt Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: magneto's check on EIS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
are you using a key switch?
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <bertrv6@highstream.net>
Subject: RV-List: magneto's check on EIS
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
Any one with the E.I.S. From Grand Rapids, might know the answer to
my question.
When I am doing the run-up, and check Mags, for drop..the Engine Monitor
shows Zero...when switching from L to R.
Of course I change the INdividual switch one has, up for the L and down
for the R mag..
Otherwise everything shows OK..
Any answers to this ?
Thanks
Bertrv6a
Starting my Flight Test...
Do NOt Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: magneto's check on EIS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Do you have two mags or one mag and an electronic ignition? How is the
switch wired? The EIS RPM input from the mag P lead requires a resister
between it and the mag. I managed to screw this up the first time I
wired mine,and putting a switch in there would make it more
complicated. I'd check that first. If you're using the same input for
both (through the switch) than the problem is obviously not with the EIS.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion protection |
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Hi James
I have no experience with this system. However, having read through their
data, it looks like a really good substitution for Alodine. I have been
concerned about the toxicity of alodine and how to dispose of the leavings. If
this
stuff works as advertised, it would be an excellent substitution.
I am assuming from the website that one would do the standard steps of clean
with MEK or acetone, prep with Alumaprep or similar, follow with Safeguard CC
3000 or so and then prime as per usual.
Anyone with thoughts or experience?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Empennage
San Ramon, California
Message 7
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| Subject: | AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion protection |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Actually, the 3000 system is designed to be applied hot and in tanks... the
6100 system is the one I am using and doesn't need any special treatment
other than mixing part a and part b and brushing or spraying it on.
As far as cleaning the 6100 process comes with part A, part B and part C.
The application process is to clean with part C (also non toxic and very
effective) using a scotchbrite pad, then rinse with deionized or distilled
water, dry, put on the part a part b mix (they mix 1:1) wait about 60
seconds until it turns gold, and then rinse again. If you don't get the
color change then it wasn't cleaned enough and you start over. If you want
to use the sealer, then you brush that on and hit it with a heat gun for
about a minute and it puts a nice solid clear coat of what almost looks like
plastic on top.
No need for MEK or acetone or any of that other fun stuff ;)
I'll send you the MSDS and instructions off list.
James
#40400
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MLWynn@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion
protection
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Hi James
I have no experience with this system. However, having read through their
data, it looks like a really good substitution for Alodine. I have been
concerned about the toxicity of alodine and how to dispose of the leavings.
If this
stuff works as advertised, it would be an excellent substitution.
I am assuming from the website that one would do the standard steps of clean
with MEK or acetone, prep with Alumaprep or similar, follow with Safeguard
CC
3000 or so and then prime as per usual.
Anyone with thoughts or experience?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Empennage
San Ramon, California
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
I don't particularly like the plastic eyeball vents that Vans supplies and
would like to use aluminum vents instead. I recall seeing several units
advertised but can't seem to remember where. Does anybody know who has
these at a better price than the normal places like Spruce?
Thanks,
Paul
RV-8
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6fly <rv6fly@bresnan.net>
Paul Trotter wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
>
>I don't particularly like the plastic eyeball vents that Vans supplies and
>would like to use aluminum vents instead. I recall seeing several units
>advertised but can't seem to remember where. Does anybody know who has
>these at a better price than the normal places like Spruce?
>
>
>
I agree, Paul. On my six, I used alum. eyball vents that I bought from
an a/c/ salvage yard as opposed to the much more costly vents that you
can buy at Spruce. I believe they were out of a Cessna 400. Be
carefull if you order from a salvage yard that you don't end up with
something smaller like what's used on passenger planes above the seat.
I don't think they'd flow as much air. To make an adapter for the hose
at the rear of the vent, I turned down a bit (tapered) and polished a
regular, 2" flanged duct, waxed it and layed up fiberglass on it
whenever I had some left over. You can then glue them on the back with
J-B weld, Proseal, etc.
Bob Skinner
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | magneto's check on EIS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
If you have the tach pickup wired to the P-lead of one mag you'll only
get a reading when that mag is on. When you turn it off during the mag
check the RPM will go to zero. It's OK to just do your mag check by
comparative sound. If you don't like that you can get a tach generator
to feed the EIS input instead of using the P-lead. Vans has them,
including one with an extended cable if you need clearance from a vacuum
pump.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
>
>
> Hi:
>
>
> Any one with the E.I.S. From Grand Rapids, might know the
> answer to my question.
>
> When I am doing the run-up, and check Mags, for drop..the
> Engine Monitor shows Zero...when switching from L to R.
>
> Of course I change the INdividual switch one has, up for
> the L and down for the R mag..
>
> Otherwise everything shows OK..
>
> Any answers to this ?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Bertrv6a
>
> Starting my Flight Test...
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: magneto's check on EIS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
or get a switch to switch to either mag for mag check.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
B & B aircraft has some which are larger than the ones normally seen,
about 3 inches or so.
B&B AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES 913-884-5930 AN HARDWARE, AIRCRAFT SURPLUS AND
LEATHER SEAT SKINS
I got mine from Wicks, which are smaller than the Van's plastic ones,
but at RV speeds they allow plenty of airflow.
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=2839/index.html
Jeff Point
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Paul
Local RV-9A builder Fabian Lefler owns AFFORDABLE PANELS.com Fabian
designed and is marketing a very nice aluminum vent the same size as Vans.
His price is better than most of the other aluminum vents I've seen. See
http://www.affordablepanels.com/aluminum_vents.htm
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
>
>I don't particularly like the plastic eyeball vents that Vans supplies and
>would like to use aluminum vents instead. I recall seeing several units
>advertised but can't seem to remember where. Does anybody know who has
>these at a better price than the normal places like Spruce?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>RV-8
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Belt Sander Question & Tool Resource |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Jeff,
My response was equally tounge-in-cheek but you have to admit that
current kits are pretty darned sophisticated. A rivet spacing tool isn't
needed and a rivet cutter gets minimal use. Van once told me that it was
now too easy for a person to build an airplane. I just know that I
really like pre punched parts and not having to form ribs using a
rawhide mallet. I believe that, for a price, you can even get one piece
skins for your 6 wings. These would be punched of course.
I agree that the wider belt sander is probably more useful. Sears has a
4X36 sander with a 6 inch disk that goes on sale for $99. I have been
using one lately and love it. Have my eye on a Grizzly 6X48 with a 9
inch disk for $250 + shipping. Overkill on this project but great for
wood working.
Experienced helper turned builder. 7 empennage
Mark
Do not archive
Jeff Point wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>I said that somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However I think the stiffeners
>area good example of where a wider belt is handy, to do the whole edge
>of the part at once. You can do this with the one inch belts, but I
>think the wider belts make it easier.
>
>Jeff
>
>Mark Grieve wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
>>
>>Oh yes, you still have to shape parts on the 7. Rudder and elevator
>>stiffeners for example.
>>MG
>>Do not archive
>>
>>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Ummm....not really - Sometimes people take credit for things that they
shouldn't....
Anyway, these vents are actually made by a company called "Airkit, LLC".
The same Vents are sold for the same price by a lot of people, including
Van's Aircraft
(http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1114912044-64-423&bro
wse=heatvent). I actually looked into stocking them, but with such a small
company like Airkit and not a lot of margin, I figured I'd just point people
to the companies website (http://www.airkitllc.com) and tell people to buy
them direct for only $5.00 more. I like to see small business like that
succeed so I throw as much business directly to them as I can!
Those are nice vents but pretty large. I use the standard sized Wemac
Aluminum vents in both my RV's and like them the best. I've used the large
ones, but IHMO, they aren't quite as nice overall as the smaller ones when
it comes to directing airflow. I like to direct a stream of air onto my
face, chest or forehead when I like, and the smaller 1.5+" ones work best
for me. You can get them for $50+ something at ACS or other places, but my
personal favorite place is just digging through an aircraft junkyard (like
Wentworth) until you find some you need. They usually sell them for much
less.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., no flames intended.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum Air Vents
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Paul
Local RV-9A builder Fabian Lefler owns AFFORDABLE PANELS.com Fabian
designed and is marketing a very nice aluminum vent the same size as Vans.
His price is better than most of the other aluminum vents I've seen. See
http://www.affordablepanels.com/aluminum_vents.htm
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
>
>I don't particularly like the plastic eyeball vents that Vans supplies and
>would like to use aluminum vents instead. I recall seeing several units
>advertised but can't seem to remember where. Does anybody know who has
>these at a better price than the normal places like Spruce?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>RV-8
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Aluminum Air Vents |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michel" <rv8ter@rogers.com>
I found the rear vent leak cold air in the winter even after putting the PRC
to seal the door and when Van's came out with these fancy expensive Aluminum
ones I had to replace my plastic cheapee. Well the rear vent air intake is
in the prop blast and particularly in the climb the looseness in the vent
valve makes such a rattling noise that it overpowers my Bose ANR. I have
just reinstalled the plastic unit after spending the winter with the under
wing vent taped up. Just a fair warning.
Michel
C-GERV 81117 470 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum Air Vents
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Paul
Local RV-9A builder Fabian Lefler owns AFFORDABLE PANELS.com Fabian
designed and is marketing a very nice aluminum vent the same size as Vans.
His price is better than most of the other aluminum vents I've seen. See
http://www.affordablepanels.com/aluminum_vents.htm
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
>
>I don't particularly like the plastic eyeball vents that Vans supplies and
>would like to use aluminum vents instead. I recall seeing several units
>advertised but can't seem to remember where. Does anybody know who has
>these at a better price than the normal places like Spruce?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>RV-8
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) stuff for corrosion |
protection
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Paul,
The original builder of my empennage used AFS. I read up on the product
and it seems to have a lot going for it. I like the non-toxic aspect but
the warm water cleanup really appeals to me. Also, being one part, you
have the option of storing the unused primer for the next session. AFS
says you can dump it right back into the can but I'm not sure I would.
The possibility of contamination scares me just a little. The primer can
be applied in any manor you see fit, spray, brush, dip, squirt or
splatter. I would suggest spraying as it will produce the most even
coat. AFS suggests spraying, brushing or rolling. The pieces I have were
brushed and the coat is pretty uneven but a second coat would help that.
Dipping may be OK for applying the conversion coating but I wouldn't
apply the primer that way. The result will be a very thick coat that is
uneven as the part drains. There will also be drips at the lowest point
and you would waste a lot of product. This stuff isn't cheap!
It takes a few days for the primer to dry/cure and it isn't very durable
during this period. Very easy to scrape off. Once cured it seems pretty
durable and doesn't flake when you dimple. I have gone back to make sure
the spars are deburred and the primer doesn't flake off of the adjacent
surfaces.
For spraying, a touch up gun is what AFS suggests. I believe HVLP is
mandatory if you live in California. Here in Illinois we aren't so
enlightened so hold your breath Indiana! If you have never used a gun
before then get a quart of latex house paint off the shelf in the
basement, thin it down to be the same as the primer and practice till
you get the feel of it. A simple spray booth can be made using a large
cardboard box and some safety wire.
Regardless of application method you will need a good respirator because
this stuff smells horrible! You should be wearing a mask no matter what
kind of primer you apply so this isn't a bid deal.
There was a discussion of AFS on the RV-7 list last fall I believe. You
might find something in that archive if you haven't searched already.
Happy priming
Mark
Paul Folbrecht wrote:
>I am really interestd in the AFS stuff for its non-toxic qualities. A search
>of the archive provided few hits re: priming/corrosion protection with this
>stuff.
>
>Has anybody used the AFS stuff or know somebody that did? Did you use all
>three of the products - cleaner, etch, primer? Is it possible to apply the
>primer by dipping parts in a tub or does it need to be sprayed HVLP?
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Garmin 196 Obstacle |
1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I installed the latest update for the Garmin 196, eager to check out the
obstacle functionality. It says "Obstacle data not present" or something to
that effect, on start-up. I have the 0412 database. I don't see reference
to a minimum database version on their website. Does anyone know?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 Obstacle |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael Hilger" <rvsixer@juno.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: Garmin 196 Obstacle
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I installed the latest update for the Garmin 196, eager to check out the
obstacle functionality. It says "Obstacle data not present" or something to
that effect, on start-up. I have the 0412 database. I don't see reference
to a minimum database version on their website. Does anyone know?
Larry,
The obstacle database is a seperate download from the database updates
(not free, either, but worth it). You also have to update the operating
software, and that is free from Garmin (if you haven't already).
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM 700 hrs
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