Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re: Alternator belt sizeAlternator belt size (Charles Heathco)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Rude RVers? ()
3. 05:11 AM - Re: cleco pliers (Tim Olson)
4. 06:08 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (linn walters)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (Finn Lassen)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (RV6 Flyer)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (Jerry Springer)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (RV6 Flyer)
9. 07:52 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (linn walters)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (James E. Clark)
11. 08:31 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (bill shook)
12. 08:32 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (Darrell Reiley)
13. 09:34 AM - Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? (Ron Lee)
14. 10:55 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) (RV6 Flyer)
15. 11:37 AM - Re: Rude RVers? (Ed Holyoke)
16. 12:30 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (Ron Lee)
17. 01:05 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) (Denis Walsh)
18. 01:12 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (Ron Lee)
19. 01:44 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
20. 01:48 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (son hoang)
21. 02:00 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (James Ochs)
22. 02:17 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (James Ochs)
23. 02:49 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (UFOBUCK@aol.com)
24. 03:13 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (sportav8r@aol.com)
25. 03:38 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (Finn Lassen)
26. 03:44 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) (Finn Lassen)
27. 03:51 PM - Re: Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem (Emrath)
28. 04:05 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (James Ochs)
29. 04:08 PM - All these virus messages.... (LARRY ADAMSON)
30. 04:31 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (cgalley)
31. 04:33 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (Kendel McCarley)
32. 04:43 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (Stein Bruch)
33. 04:55 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (Mark Grieve)
34. 05:35 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (LARRY ADAMSON)
35. 05:37 PM - Re: cleco pliers (John D. Heath)
36. 06:18 PM - Re: cleco pliers (David Burton)
37. 06:31 PM - Solenoid installation/wire routing (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
38. 06:31 PM - RV-10 Duckworks Light Kit Installed (Tim Olson)
39. 06:36 PM - Re: Rude RVers? (Jerry Springer)
40. 07:06 PM - Re: All these virus messages.... (gert)
41. 09:10 PM - Re: Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem (MLWynn@aol.com)
42. 09:39 PM - Re: cleco pliers (Jim Jewell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator belt sizeAlternator belt size |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@comcast.net>
I somehow missed the orig post, but for what its worth the stock belt is a gates
9335XL, get em at NAPA auto. charlie heathco
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
Maybe the ones who made the error should give the FBO, etc. a call and
apologize. They may have thought the locals would enjoy what they did, as
do most of us who hang out at airports. Sometimes, what we do that's
outside the norm isn't appreciated as well as we think. If the person who
initiated this thread had the "N" numbers, somebody who told him about it
had to have had access to them, somehow. Maybe they were guilty of the
crime, even if we think they weren't? We gotta be careful out there! More
and more homes are encroaching on airports. Those homes are filled with
folks who don't like us. They think most of us are rich guys having our fun
at their expense.
Jim Sears in KY
EAA Tech Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: cleco pliers |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I got one from teh yard store as another poster mentioned. $25 and
works great...and on the RV-10 there are LOTS of clecos. A normal
set for a -10 builder would be about 750 3/32" clecos.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jeff Orear wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> Dave:
>
> If you are having that much trouble with your cleco pliers, I suggest that
> you consider buying a pneumatic one from Avery's. It is engaged via a
> trigger and may be more comfortable for you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A N782P
> Heading to the airport 5/11
> Peshtigo, WI
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: cleco pliers
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>>
>>Anybody make cloche style pliers that don't have to be opened so wide to
>>grasp a cloche? I have several misc. manufacturer's pliers and they all
>>have the same grip length. I almost cannot open my hand wide enough to
>>grab
>>a side grip cloche, and would like it to be easier to grab a regular
>>cloche.
>>I thought I'd ask the list before I took the torch to one of mine... They
>>have a useless range of travel at the closed position and have to be
>>opened
>>too wide at the large.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dave
>>RV6 near Seattle
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator belt size
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
>>><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>>>
>>>I suggest you find a store that sells Gates. Buy several, like a 30",
>>
>>31",
>>
>>>32" or what ever is available around what you measured. Then return the
>>>ones that don't fit.
>>>
>>>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up FLYING - Phase 1 Testing
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor@msn.com>
>>>To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: RV-List: Alternator belt size
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor@msn.com>
>>>>
>>>>I have one of Van's 60 amp alternators (kit) on an O-360 and need a
>>>>30-1/2" v-belt. Can't seem to find any auto parts store that has one!
>>
>>Any
>>
>>>>suggestions from you guys who have BTDT?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
I wasn't going to comment, because I wasn't there. However, Jim brings
a good point to the table while jerry shot the messenger. I don't know
what happened, but we're our own ambassadors ..... when something is
perceived as 'bad' by the public, it reflects on all of us. Even
performing a formation fly-by (which I absolutely love .... to
participate in or watch) can (and will) be viewed negatively by folks on
the ground. I don't know exactly what this (famous?) group did or even
that what they did was illegal. But without naming names directly, Finn
let those pilots (and the rest of us) know that the CLW area is
sensitive and that we should be good pilots and good neighbors too. If
I remember correctly, CLW was in a cat fight just to remain open so we
all should be especially careful so that what we enjoy does not become a
fond memory. But on with the 'complaints' ..... gauging altitude from
the ground is risky at best, and there's no control tower so the pattern
is ...... well, let's just say it's pilot's discretion and not cast in
concrete .... unless something happens. PIE (St. Pete) is only 5 miles
away so busting their airspace is easy, but not right. I've been to
places where a high speed pass and steep climb back to pattern altitude
is welcome .... and some that were not. Unless I know, then it's a
standard arrival. CLW has problems with the neighbors .... as the
'noise abatement procedures are in effect' notam implies (they did check
the notams, didn't they?) and it behooves us to be careful.
I think Jim's suggestion to apologize is a good one ..... wrongs or no
wrongs ...... and I might add ..... they might try and spend some time
attending (and speaking, if warranted) some of those homeowner
meetings. Apologies go a long way to heal bad feelings, and those
homeowner meetings are a great way to educate the non-aviation public.
We can also listen to what they find offensive and try to alleviate the
problems a little.
Soapbox relinquished.
Linn .... who deals with anti-airport and anti-pilot neighbors all the time.
do not archive
sears@searnet.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>
>Maybe the ones who made the error should give the FBO, etc. a call and
>apologize. They may have thought the locals would enjoy what they did, as
>do most of us who hang out at airports. Sometimes, what we do that's
>outside the norm isn't appreciated as well as we think. If the person who
>initiated this thread had the "N" numbers, somebody who told him about it
>had to have had access to them, somehow. Maybe they were guilty of the
>crime, even if we think they weren't? We gotta be careful out there! More
>and more homes are encroaching on airports. Those homes are filled with
>folks who don't like us. They think most of us are rich guys having our fun
>at their expense.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>EAA Tech Counselor
>EAA Flight Advisor
>
>
>
>
--
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Yes, I wish I had been there to see what actually happened...
But if St Pete Tower called the FBO to get their N-numbers, something
must have happened that would have been out of character with the
general RV community.
Finn
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>>
>>Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
>>N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
>>
>>If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the story.
>>
>>Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
>>school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
>>violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
>>minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors was
>>about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
>>back".
>>
>>This does not reflect well on the RV community.
>>
>>Finn Lassen
>>RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I know 4 of the 5 on your list and I don't believe they did what you
>said. I also know that
>most of them are or were on the RV-List. To characterize any on that
>list as RUDE is way
>off the mark. Finn I have to believe that you have the capability to
>look up who belongs to
>these airplanes and would have to agree with me. You have been on this
>list long enough
>to see most of them post here at one time or another.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Flinn:
I know all of them and do not believe it. One of them have been to
Clearwater before including last years Open House.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,666 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the story.
Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors was
about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
back".
This does not reflect well on the RV community.
Finn Lassen
RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
linn walters wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>I wasn't going to comment, because I wasn't there. However, Jim brings
>a good point to the table while jerry shot the messenger.
>
I shot the messenger? No more than Finn shot the pilots by calling them
RUDE without hearing their side
of the story. I know most of these guys and not one of them is rude. Did
they bust airspace? I don't know
but least wait to hear their side of the story before calling them rude.
do not archive
Jerry
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Flinn:
Just got off the cell phone with the people flying the below N numbers.
They talked to the FBO and they tell me they made right traffic like they
were suppose to both coming and going.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,666 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the story.
Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors was
about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
back".
This does not reflect well on the RV community.
Finn Lassen
RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>linn walters wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>I wasn't going to comment, because I wasn't there. However, Jim brings
>>a good point to the table while jerry shot the messenger.
>>
>>
>>
>I shot the messenger? No more than Finn shot the pilots by calling them
>RUDE without hearing their side
>of the story. I know most of these guys and not one of them is rude. Did
>they bust airspace? I don't know
>but least wait to hear their side of the story before calling them rude.
>do not archive
>
>Jerry
>
Jerry, If there were enough 'issues' to cause the angst, then there must
have been something. Maybe 'rude' wasn't a good word .... but symantics
aside ..... they caused enough grief so that "they are not welcome back".
Your defense of their character is admirable ...... but whatever
transpired did not reflect well on them nor the aviation community as a
whole ..... at least in that area. I'm still waiting for one (or all)
of the 'miscreants' ;-) to post their own defense or apology. I
didn't look up the names ..... and I probably don't know them anyway
..... so I can't comment on their character. I can. however, comment on
the bad press, which does none of us any good.
Linn
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Although we might not like the message here, we must all deal with
**PERCEPTIONS**, especially at "sensitive" airports.
It is good that there was a request for "the other side of the story". I
take it that this is done in the spirit of healing.
Let's assume our RV friends were 100% in the "right" in everything they did.
But if the perception of one or a few "concerned neighbors" in a sensitive
neighborhood is that something was not right and they were concerned enough
to NOTE THE N-NUMBERS, then there is some "healing" that probably needs to
be done by someone.
I operate out of an airport that is "in town" and surrounded on two sides by
a neighborhood. I serve on a committee that tries to deal with the "Safety
Issues" that are perceived by the neighborhood. And I would say that
immediate attention would be good.
It is not the pilots involved in this matter that will stand to lose so much
(unless they are locals) as those that are at the airport in question.
I have witnessed incorrect pattern entry (we use Right 13) at our airport
that took the planes right over the sensitive neighbors at our airport. I
have been there when the FBO got the calls from a certain neighbor and the
FBO feels obliged to log the time, action and N-numbers in case there is a
further issue. And I have nicely talked to pilots who were not aware of the
sensitivities about corrective actions. So far, so good.
Maybe one of the pilots (a local??) can fly over and have a sit down with
the FBO owner. And be prepared to get an earful, but for the greater good
hear the FBO owner out and check to see if anything can be done to help (and
I don't mean staying away).
Such action would probably benefit us all.
James
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: bill shook <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
I'm sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. You buy a house near an airport and then
complain about the noise? It makes me sick. In orlando a golf community built
up south
of the airport and THEN the money people got the airport to change its pattern
to suite
them. I would want to go down there and smack the he!! out of all of them. If
you
don't like the sound of aircraft, buy a house that isn't next to an airport. If
you
don't like the sounds of baseball, don't buy next to coors field. If you don't
like
traffic noise, don't buy next to a major highway. If you have your head so far
up your
butt that you have to complain about something every day of your life...seek
counseling. Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me whose dog
barked
ALL night long but still...
:-) Good morning RV people. See? I'm trying to be nice.
Bill
--- sears@searnet.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>
> Maybe the ones who made the error should give the FBO, etc. a call and
> apologize. They may have thought the locals would enjoy what they did, as
> do most of us who hang out at airports. Sometimes, what we do that's
> outside the norm isn't appreciated as well as we think. If the person who
> initiated this thread had the "N" numbers, somebody who told him about it
> had to have had access to them, somehow. Maybe they were guilty of the
> crime, even if we think they weren't? We gotta be careful out there! More
> and more homes are encroaching on airports. Those homes are filled with
> folks who don't like us. They think most of us are rich guys having our fun
> at their expense.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> EAA Tech Counselor
> EAA Flight Advisor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
Sounds like you might have the same type group at this meeting a lot of airport
communities somehow end up with... Whiners. Build an airport and they will come...
Darrell
Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the story.
Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors was
about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
back".
This does not reflect well on the RV community.
Finn Lassen
RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 13
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| Subject: | Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Another Oct RV fly-in is well attended (I have been three times) but the
move to
Santa Teresa raises doubts in my mind about parking. The Albuquerque
Balloon Fiesta is 30 Sep to 9 Oct and Double Eagle (AEG) is not far from
the balloon launch area (at least by air).
http://www.balloonfiesta.com/
In addition to more things to do in Albuquerque, Sante Fe NM is close by
as well.
Is there interest among RV folks to attend a fly-in to coincide with the
balloon fiesta?
It is probably best to email me directly at ronlee@pcisys.net
Ron Lee
Message 14
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| Subject: | Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Just got off the cell phone for the second time. The 5 airplanes did the
same noise abatment departure that is done at my home airport (CCB) except
it was right turns. They departed one right after the other in sequence
using full power and best rate of climb. All 5 airplanes are 180 HP and
constant speed prop powered. Yes they were heavy with bagagage and two
people per airplane and are not going to have the best rate of climb
published by Van for solo. They departed runway 34 and made a climbing
right 270 degree turn. They passed over the airport at 2,000 feet. The
flew west away from the area at 2,500 feet. All 5 airplanes were in the
article on page 62 of the April 2005 issue of "Sport Aviation". This time
they are on their way to Cayman Islands.
How can one fly an RV more quietly that the departure that I was just told
by one of the pilots described above?
Thanks for letting me know NEVER to fly to Clearwater Airpark. I will go
spend my money where it is welcome. Zephyrhills Municipal Airport is $0.97
per gallon cheaper for 100 LL according to AirNav.com and only 35 miles
away.
I do not see any published noise abatement procedures at
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCLW other than "- NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES
IN EFFECT CTC FBO 727-443-3433.".
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,666 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the story.
Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors was
about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
back".
This does not reflect well on the RV community.
Finn Lassen
RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Finn,
Are you saying that St. Pete tower did call the FBO? It would be
interesting to hear more of the facts. It would be nice to hear exactly
what they are accused of having done.
I went to bed thinking that maybe they had screwed up and flew the wrong
pattern. Gary says that he spoke to them and they say they flew right
traffic. I believe it as these guys are very professional. They may have
made a formation arrival and a low pass (I'm supposing now). It is easy
to piss off locals around airports, especially during a meeting about
noise complaints, even while flying within the letter of the law.
Perhaps on a different day, it wouldn't have made such a stink. Knowing
these guys, you can bet that they did not set out to be deliberately
rude.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Finn Lassen
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Yes, I wish I had been there to see what actually happened...
But if St Pete Tower called the FBO to get their N-numbers, something
must have happened that would have been out of character with the
general RV community.
Finn
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>>
>>Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
>>N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
>>
>>If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the
story.
>>
>>Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
>>school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
>>violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
>>minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors
was
>>about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
>>back".
>>
>>This does not reflect well on the RV community.
>>
>>Finn Lassen
>>RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I know 4 of the 5 on your list and I don't believe they did what you
>said. I also know that
>most of them are or were on the RV-List. To characterize any on that
>list as RUDE is way
>off the mark. Finn I have to believe that you have the capability to
>look up who belongs to
>these airplanes and would have to agree with me. You have been on this
>list long enough
>to see most of them post here at one time or another.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me whose dog barked
>ALL night long but still...
If you don't like people buy acreage. Every neighborhood has at least one
inconsiderate
louse.
Ron Lee
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
DITTO FOR ME. I gassed up at Zephyr hills during sun n fun. There
were several RVs tied down there when I was gassing up. Great
place. Self serve.
Clearwater can be a private airport if that's what they want as far
as I am concerned.
Denis Walsh
On May 8, 2005, at 11:54 AM, RV6 Flyer wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Just got off the cell phone for the second time. The 5 airplanes
> did the
> same noise abatment departure that is done at my home airport
> (CCB) except
> it was right turns. They departed one right after the other in
> sequence
> using full power and best rate of climb. All 5 airplanes are 180
> HP and
> constant speed prop powered. Yes they were heavy with bagagage and
> two
> people per airplane and are not going to have the best rate of climb
> published by Van for solo. They departed runway 34 and made a
> climbing
> right 270 degree turn. They passed over the airport at 2,000
> feet. The
> flew west away from the area at 2,500 feet. All 5 airplanes were
> in the
> article on page 62 of the April 2005 issue of "Sport Aviation".
> This time
> they are on their way to Cayman Islands.
>
> How can one fly an RV more quietly that the departure that I was
> just told
> by one of the pilots described above?
>
> Thanks for letting me know NEVER to fly to Clearwater Airpark. I
> will go
> spend my money where it is welcome. Zephyrhills Municipal Airport
> is $0.97
> per gallon cheaper for 100 LL according to AirNav.com and only 35
> miles
> away.
>
> I do not see any published noise abatement procedures at
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCLW other than "- NOISE
> ABATEMENT PROCEDURES
> IN EFFECT CTC FBO 727-443-3433.".
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,666 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com.Gecko/20030624.Netscape/7.1 (ax; PROMO)
> Subject: RV-List: Rude RVers?
> Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 23:56:47 -0400
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>
> Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
> N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
>
> If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the
> story.
>
> Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
> school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
> violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
> minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors
> was
> about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
> back".
>
> This does not reflect well on the RV community.
>
> Finn Lassen
> RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
>
>
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>Jerry, If there were enough 'issues' to cause the angst, then there must
>have been something. Maybe 'rude' wasn't a good word .... but symantics
>aside ..... they caused enough grief so that "they are not welcome back".
Even this is debatable. There are people who could have seen five planes
take off quickly and get upset. So the five may have done nada wrong and
are just the recipients of the ire of someone in need of a life. Or maybe
there
was an honest mistake which was blown out of proportion. And just because
one FBO says they are not welcome is not proof that they were wrong.
I am not standing up for them. I just don't see any factual information that
warrants questioning their actions.
In due time we may have facts and can discuss this rationally. Until then, I
am complaining that the restaurant that I went to this morning for breakfast
was closed. I have a gas receipt worth $2.99 off a breakfast burning a hole
in my wallet and I wanted breakfast. This is not right :)
Ron Lee
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
LIFE CAN BE A BITCH, CAN'T IT RON.
DELAYING MY WEST COAST TRIP SO HOPE TO BE AT LOE....SEE YA THERE.
DOUG
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "son hoang" <son@hoangs.com>
if every pilot has your attitude then GA is really in trouble
I hope that other pilots show more sensitivity than you do
----- Original Message -----
From: "bill shook" <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
> --> RV-List message posted by: bill shook <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. You buy a house near an airport
and then
> complain about the noise? It makes me sick. In orlando a golf community
built up south
> of the airport and THEN the money people got the airport to change its
pattern to suite
> them. I would want to go down there and smack the he!! out of all of
them. If you
> don't like the sound of aircraft, buy a house that isn't next to an
airport. If you
> don't like the sounds of baseball, don't buy next to coors field. If you
don't like
> traffic noise, don't buy next to a major highway. If you have your head
so far up your
> butt that you have to complain about something every day of your
life...seek
> counseling. Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me
whose dog barked
> ALL night long but still...
>
> :-) Good morning RV people. See? I'm trying to be nice.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- sears@searnet.com wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> > Maybe the ones who made the error should give the FBO, etc. a call and
> > apologize. They may have thought the locals would enjoy what they did,
as
> > do most of us who hang out at airports. Sometimes, what we do that's
> > outside the norm isn't appreciated as well as we think. If the person
who
> > initiated this thread had the "N" numbers, somebody who told him about
it
> > had to have had access to them, somehow. Maybe they were guilty of the
> > crime, even if we think they weren't? We gotta be careful out there!
More
> > and more homes are encroaching on airports. Those homes are filled with
> > folks who don't like us. They think most of us are rich guys having our
fun
> > at their expense.
> >
> > Jim Sears in KY
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>
>
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Heh, I can sympathize with both the owner of the dog and the person on the
receiving end of the dog barking all night. My house is surrounded by
neighbors with dogs and I have a dog.
I knew there were lots of dogs in the neighborhood. I also live under the
pattern for one international airport (sjc) and under the pattern (base leg)
for moffet federal airfield (c-130s, f-18s, f-14s, 737's helicopters, ad
infinitum.) Also within 5 miles of PAO and RHV.
I knew the dogs were here when I moved in. I knew the airports were here
when I moved in.
As such, I have to say that I GAVE UP MY RIGHT TO COMPLAIN about the noise
from either one. I have to agree that one of the stupidest things people do
is move in next to an airport and then go "oh sh** its noisy around here I
better get the airport shutdown"
It's one thing to have a neighbor move in and then get a dog, or get a noisy
dog after having been quiet for a while. Or like in my case move in with a
dog, then start banging away on constructing a metal airplane. I think that
the neighbor then has the right to complain, and hopefully work out a way to
resolve it. But when someone KNOWINGLY buys or moves into a house that is
located near an airport (which in many cases was there before that person
was even born) then they MUST accept that fact there is going to be
airplanes flying overhead.
<RANT>
I think it is about time that the city and county governments get a backbone
and quit acquiescing to people who have absolutely no basis to complain.
For those of you from this area, this is exactly what is going on at
Livermore right now. The federal government has told the city that there is
no legal way that they can close or move the airport. The city council has
admitted that there probably is no way they can move or close the airport.
A developer wants to build near the airport and neighbors that are
encroaching are complaining about noise. So the city council decides to
spend even MORE money on doing more environmental impact and site studies on
places to relocate the airport. Why? So they can look like they are doing
something about even though it is a complete waste of time and money. This
is not an isolated case. Another one in the bay area is Hayward airport.
There is a golf course about 300 yards off of the end of the runway. Noise
abatement procedures have you turn to the crosswind leg prior to reaching
the airport fence. This means in a 172 I'm at climb power, somewhere in the
neighborhood of 150' and making a 90 degree turn, over warehouses. While it
isn't a difficult maneuver, it seems like it's just asking for stall-spins,
and if you should lose power once you start that turn your options are
trees, buildings, or if you managed to get enough altitude you might manage
to make the water. Remember, this isn't even homes we are talking about it's
a flipping golf course.
As long as the feds allow people like Daly to pull stunts like bulldozing an
airport in the middle of the night, then the cities and counties are going
to continue to waste everyone's time and money trying to figure out how to
shutdown airports. (as a side note did anyone else catch the story about him
getting voted as one of the best mayors in the country? I guess the
qualification for being a good politician is to break as many laws as
possible and get away with it, but that's another rant ;) They need to put
their foot down and say "no more". The judges need to say that the lawsuits
and legal challenges brought in these cases have plenty of precedent and
opinion that there is no basis for the complaint and just throw it straight
out of court. That is how this nonsense is going to stop.
</RANT>
I suspect in this case, you had five airplanes taking off in formation.
Noise levels are cumulative, i.e. if you have two airplanes, it is twice as
loud as one, three is three times as loud. I suspect that all five going at
once was probably pretty loud from the ground. I would assume this wasn't
either late at night or particularly early in the morning since they were
having a "town" meeting at the time. If they did indeed follow published
procedures and pattern then the problem is the noise abatement procedure...
it should state "no formation take-offs" or something similar. As far as
busting the airspace that's a different issue all together.
Sorry for the rant, but this kind of crap really gets under my skin.
Do not archive
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me whose dog barked
>ALL night long but still...
If you don't like people buy acreage. Every neighborhood has at least one
inconsiderate
louse.
Ron Lee
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Without arguing the particulars of this event at CLW, I have to agree with
Bill on this one. There is a huge difference between performing a normal
operation during business hours and bringing in a turbojet or large noisy
aircraft at 4 am. Complain about the loud flight at 4 am and I am right
there with you. Complain about the same flight at noon at an airport that
typically has those types of operations and I'll tell you that you really
need to go find something else to do, and probably somewhere else to live.
It's an airport. It's been there a lot longer than 99% of the surrounding
community. There are airplanes, and they make noise. I am all for working
with the surrounding communities to reach acceptable noise abatement
procedures to both parties. What I don't agree with is people who complain
about normal operations and try to get the airport to reduce its hours
unreasonably or close or create noise abatement procedures or encroachment
that cause safety concerns.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of son hoang
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: "son hoang" <son@hoangs.com>
if every pilot has your attitude then GA is really in trouble
I hope that other pilots show more sensitivity than you do
----- Original Message -----
From: "bill shook" <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
> --> RV-List message posted by: bill shook <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. You buy a house near an airport
and then
> complain about the noise? It makes me sick. In orlando a golf community
built up south
> of the airport and THEN the money people got the airport to change its
pattern to suite
> them. I would want to go down there and smack the he!! out of all of
them. If you
> don't like the sound of aircraft, buy a house that isn't next to an
airport. If you
> don't like the sounds of baseball, don't buy next to coors field. If you
don't like
> traffic noise, don't buy next to a major highway. If you have your head
so far up your
> butt that you have to complain about something every day of your
life...seek
> counseling. Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me
whose dog barked
> ALL night long but still...
>
> :-) Good morning RV people. See? I'm trying to be nice.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- sears@searnet.com wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> > Maybe the ones who made the error should give the FBO, etc. a call and
> > apologize. They may have thought the locals would enjoy what they did,
as
> > do most of us who hang out at airports. Sometimes, what we do that's
> > outside the norm isn't appreciated as well as we think. If the person
who
> > initiated this thread had the "N" numbers, somebody who told him about
it
> > had to have had access to them, somehow. Maybe they were guilty of the
> > crime, even if we think they weren't? We gotta be careful out there!
More
> > and more homes are encroaching on airports. Those homes are filled with
> > folks who don't like us. They think most of us are rich guys having our
fun
> > at their expense.
> >
> > Jim Sears in KY
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 5/8/2005 10:32:44 AM Central Standard Time,
billshook2000@yahoo.com writes:
I'm sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. You buy a house near an airport and
then
complain about the noise? It makes me sick. In orlando a golf community
built up south
of the airport and THEN the money people got the airport to change its
pattern to suite
them
RIGHT ON !!!!!!!
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
James wrote:
>>I suspect in this case, you had five airplanes taking off in formation.
Noise levels are cumulative, i.e. if you have two airplanes, it is twice as
loud as one, three is three times as loud. I suspect that all five going at
once was probably pretty loud from the ground.<<
Well, technically, noise levels are logarithmically cumulative, so it takes 10
RV's in a formation takeoff to sound twice as loud (+10dB). Five planes will
sound about 7dB louder than one, all other things being equal and arriving in
phase :-) That's equivalent to seven just-noticeable-differences in noise level
on the volume knob, as it were. Funny thing, the human ear...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Heh, I can sympathize with both the owner of the dog and the person on the
receiving end of the dog barking all night. My house is surrounded by
neighbors with dogs and I have a dog.
I knew there were lots of dogs in the neighborhood. I also live under the
pattern for one international airport (sjc) and under the pattern (base leg)
for moffet federal airfield (c-130s, f-18s, f-14s, 737's helicopters, ad
infinitum.) Also within 5 miles of PAO and RHV.
I knew the dogs were here when I moved in. I knew the airports were here
when I moved in.
As such, I have to say that I GAVE UP MY RIGHT TO COMPLAIN about the noise
from either one. I have to agree that one of the stupidest things people do
is move in next to an airport and then go "oh sh** its noisy around here I
better get the airport shutdown"
It's one thing to have a neighbor move in and then get a dog, or get a noisy
dog after having been quiet for a while. Or like in my case move in with a
dog, then start banging away on constructing a metal airplane. I think that
the neighbor then has the right to complain, and hopefully work out a way to
resolve it. But when someone KNOWINGLY buys or moves into a house that is
located near an airport (which in many cases was there before that person
was even born) then they MUST accept that fact there is going to be
airplanes flying overhead.
<RANT>
I think it is about time that the city and county governments get a backbone
and quit acquiescing to people who have absolutely no basis to complain.
For those of you from this area, this is exactly what is going on at
Livermore right now. The federal government has told the city that there is
no legal way that they can close or move the airport. The city council has
admitted that there probably is no way they can move or close the airport.
A developer wants to build near the airport and neighbors that are
encroaching are complaining about noise. So the city council decides to
spend even MORE money on doing more environmental impact and site studies on
places to relocate the airport. Why? So they can look like they are doing
something about even though it is a complete waste of time and money. This
is not an isolated case. Another one in the bay area is Hayward airport.
There is a golf course about 300 yards off of the end of the runway. Noise
abatement procedures have you turn to the crosswind leg prior to reaching
the airport fence. This means in a 172 I'm at climb power, somewhere in the
neighborhood of 150' and making a 90 degree turn, over warehouses. While it
isn't a difficult maneuver, it seems like it's just asking for stall-spins,
and if you should lose power once you start that turn your options are
trees, buildings, or if you managed to get enough altitude you might manage
to make the water. Remember, this isn't even homes we are talking about it's
a flipping golf course.
As long as the feds allow people like Daly to pull stunts like bulldozing an
airport in the middle of the night, then the cities and counties are going
to continue to waste everyone's time and money trying to figure out how to
shutdown airports. (as a side note did anyone else catch the story about him
getting voted as one of the best mayors in the country? I guess the
qualification for being a good politician is to break as many laws as
possible and get away with it, but that's another rant ;) They need to put
their foot down and say "no more". The judges need to say that the lawsuits
and legal challenges brought in these cases have plenty of precedent and
opinion that there is no basis for the complaint and just throw it straight
out of court. That is how this nonsense is going to stop.
</RANT>
I suspect in this case, you had five airplanes taking off in formation.
Noise levels are cumulative, i.e. if you have two airplanes, it is twice as
loud as one, three is three times as loud. I suspect that all five going at
once was probably pretty loud from the ground. I would assume this wasn't
either late at night or particularly early in the morning since they were
having a "town" meeting at the time. If they did indeed follow published
procedures and pattern then the problem is the noise abatement procedure...
it should state "no formation take-offs" or something similar. As far as
busting the airspace that's a different issue all together.
Sorry for the rant, but this kind of crap really gets under my skin.
Do not archive
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me whose dog barked
>ALL night long but still...
If you don't like people buy acreage. Every neighborhood has at least one
inconsiderate
louse.
Ron Lee
Message 25
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
I appreciate all the replies. Unfortunately I was only relaying what I
was told - probably never a good idea.
Yes, it was my understanding that they did encroach on St Pete's
airspace and that Tower called the FBO for the N-numbers.
I probably chose a bad subject line. Maybe "inconsiderate?" would have
been better? But do note the question mark:)
There was a remark from the flight school owner that they had been rude
to "Brian". No idea who Brian is - the line boy?
It's beginning to sound like they just were at the wrong place at the
wrong (worst) time, doing a formation break for landing over the exact
neigborhood where a plane (not a home built) crashed into a house a
month or so ago, were a meeting between the airport manager and a
neighborhood group was taking place.
Yes, KCLW is (now) in the middle of Clearwater. The fact that it was
there first is generally lost on people.
The reason I wrote the original posting was that as I entered the FBO
late yesterday afternoon I was greeted by the flight school owner who
commenced telling me what I relayed in my first posting.
I can see both sides of the argument but sure would like to tell
complaining neighbors to go take a f...
My concern is that I'd like to continue to be based there, at least for
a few more years.
What is OK at an airport open house may not be considered OK during
normal operation.
I guess a good rule of thumb would be to be extra careful when entering
any small airport in the middle of any city or town, if not familiar
with any sensitive issues.
From what Gary wrote, they did indeed take care during departure.
Finn
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
>Finn,
>
>Are you saying that St. Pete tower did call the FBO? It would be
>interesting to hear more of the facts. It would be nice to hear exactly
>what they are accused of having done.
>
>I went to bed thinking that maybe they had screwed up and flew the wrong
>pattern. Gary says that he spoke to them and they say they flew right
>traffic. I believe it as these guys are very professional. They may have
>made a formation arrival and a low pass (I'm supposing now). It is easy
>to piss off locals around airports, especially during a meeting about
>noise complaints, even while flying within the letter of the law.
>Perhaps on a different day, it wouldn't have made such a stink. Knowing
>these guys, you can bet that they did not set out to be deliberately
>rude.
>
>Pax,
>
>Ed Holyoke
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Finn Lassen
>To: ax; PROMO
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>
>Yes, I wish I had been there to see what actually happened...
>But if St Pete Tower called the FBO to get their N-numbers, something
>must have happened that would have been out of character with the
>general RV community.
>
>Finn
>
>Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>
>>Finn Lassen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>>>
>>>Apparently the following RVers visited Clearwater Airpark (CLW) today:
>>>N699JB, N99PZ, N515L, N695LS and N628PV.
>>>
>>>If any of you are on the list, I'd like to hear your side of the
>>>
>>>
>story.
>
>
>>>Apparently managed to piss off a number of people including the flight
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>school owner at the FBO, not following published pattern at airpark,
>>>violate St Pete controlled airspace and buzz the neigborhood below
>>>minimum altitude, just as a meeting to appease complaining neigbors
>>>
>>>
>was
>
>
>>>about to end. The message I got from the FBO was "they are not welcome
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>back".
>>>
>>>This does not reflect well on the RV community.
>>>
>>>Finn Lassen
>>>RV-3 Mazda rotary powered
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I know 4 of the 5 on your list and I don't believe they did what you
>>said. I also know that
>>most of them are or were on the RV-List. To characterize any on that
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>list as RUDE is way
>>off the mark. Finn I have to believe that you have the capability to
>>look up who belongs to
>>these airplanes and would have to agree with me. You have been on this
>>list long enough
>>to see most of them post here at one time or another.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rude RVers? (2nd cell phone call) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Yes Gary, I would much rather be based at ZPH. However CLW is only 3
miles from my home.
Can't wait to build my new home at "my own" strip - Shady Bend (9FL5).
But would probably still have to fly to CLW to go to work :(
Finn
RV6 Flyer wrote:
>Thanks for letting me know NEVER to fly to Clearwater Airpark. I will go
>spend my money where it is welcome. Zephyrhills Municipal Airport is $0.97
>per gallon cheaper for 100 LL according to AirNav.com and only 35 miles
>away.
>...
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
The Safety data sheet that James posted below states "SafeGard CC-6100
leaves a highly corrosion resistant and adherent surface". My question is,
why prime over this at all, if it is "highly corrosion resistant"? Where
does one purchase some of this stuff?
Marty in Brentwood TN
Time: 09:45:13 PM PST US
From: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem
--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
I'm also using the Sanchem products. It's pretty easy to apply and clean
up. And I am really happy with it so far.
I'm using their seal #2 instead of primer on the internal bits. It puts a
coating over the parts that is almost like lacquer or plastic and seems to
be very durable. Again, you just rinse and dry after the part a+b solution,
brush or spray it on, hit it with a heat gun and it's done in about 30
seconds.
For anyone who is interested I have a write up at
http://www.froody.org/html/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=d
isplay&ceid=1&meid=3 and docs and MSDS posted at
http://www.froody.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=DownloadsPlus&file=in
dex&req=viewdownload&cid=3
The MSDS is quite boring as far as MSDS go, which is nice ;)
James
#40400
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MLWynn@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Hi all,
Thought I would report back on a different conversion coating. I ordered
the
3 part Sanchem 6100 system. Part C is a cleaner/activator. A&B get mixed
1:1. Basically, you scrub the parts with scotchbrite and part C, rinse and
immediately brush on or immerse in the A&B stuff. I minute or two later,
you have
a pretty golden brown conversion coating. It looks exactly like my
alondined
conversion. I then applied AZKO two part epoxy over the whole thing.
Mostly
an all day project, but the results are beautiful.
The really nice thing about the Sanchem is that it is not toxic or
environmentally harmful. Judging from the color of the stuff, I would guess
this is a
permanganate that reacts with the prepared aluminum to make an AlMn04
coating
over the surface.
The folks at Sanchem, particularly Jonathon Filcher their technical guy,
were
very helpful. Will let you know in ten years if the primer remains intact.
Anyway, took about the same amount of time as the alodine process, just a
lot
less toxic.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Empennage
San Ramon, California
Message 28
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Hehe, I knew it was something like that, couldn't remember the exact
numbers. My point was that it was more likely the formation flight that was
the issue than anything else ;)
Thanks for the correction, I doubt I'll forget that again!
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sportav8r@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
James wrote:
>>I suspect in this case, you had five airplanes taking off in formation.
Noise levels are cumulative, i.e. if you have two airplanes, it is twice as
loud as one, three is three times as loud. I suspect that all five going at
once was probably pretty loud from the ground.<<
Well, technically, noise levels are logarithmically cumulative, so it takes
10 RV's in a formation takeoff to sound twice as loud (+10dB). Five planes
will sound about 7dB louder than one, all other things being equal and
arriving in phase :-) That's equivalent to seven
just-noticeable-differences in noise level on the volume knob, as it were.
Funny thing, the human ear...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Heh, I can sympathize with both the owner of the dog and the person on the
receiving end of the dog barking all night. My house is surrounded by
neighbors with dogs and I have a dog.
I knew there were lots of dogs in the neighborhood. I also live under the
pattern for one international airport (sjc) and under the pattern (base leg)
for moffet federal airfield (c-130s, f-18s, f-14s, 737's helicopters, ad
infinitum.) Also within 5 miles of PAO and RHV.
I knew the dogs were here when I moved in. I knew the airports were here
when I moved in.
As such, I have to say that I GAVE UP MY RIGHT TO COMPLAIN about the noise
from either one. I have to agree that one of the stupidest things people do
is move in next to an airport and then go "oh sh** its noisy around here I
better get the airport shutdown"
It's one thing to have a neighbor move in and then get a dog, or get a noisy
dog after having been quiet for a while. Or like in my case move in with a
dog, then start banging away on constructing a metal airplane. I think that
the neighbor then has the right to complain, and hopefully work out a way to
resolve it. But when someone KNOWINGLY buys or moves into a house that is
located near an airport (which in many cases was there before that person
was even born) then they MUST accept that fact there is going to be
airplanes flying overhead.
<RANT>
I think it is about time that the city and county governments get a backbone
and quit acquiescing to people who have absolutely no basis to complain.
For those of you from this area, this is exactly what is going on at
Livermore right now. The federal government has told the city that there is
no legal way that they can close or move the airport. The city council has
admitted that there probably is no way they can move or close the airport.
A developer wants to build near the airport and neighbors that are
encroaching are complaining about noise. So the city council decides to
spend even MORE money on doing more environmental impact and site studies on
places to relocate the airport. Why? So they can look like they are doing
something about even though it is a complete waste of time and money. This
is not an isolated case. Another one in the bay area is Hayward airport.
There is a golf course about 300 yards off of the end of the runway. Noise
abatement procedures have you turn to the crosswind leg prior to reaching
the airport fence. This means in a 172 I'm at climb power, somewhere in the
neighborhood of 150' and making a 90 degree turn, over warehouses. While it
isn't a difficult maneuver, it seems like it's just asking for stall-spins,
and if you should lose power once you start that turn your options are
trees, buildings, or if you managed to get enough altitude you might manage
to make the water. Remember, this isn't even homes we are talking about it's
a flipping golf course.
As long as the feds allow people like Daly to pull stunts like bulldozing an
airport in the middle of the night, then the cities and counties are going
to continue to waste everyone's time and money trying to figure out how to
shutdown airports. (as a side note did anyone else catch the story about him
getting voted as one of the best mayors in the country? I guess the
qualification for being a good politician is to break as many laws as
possible and get away with it, but that's another rant ;) They need to put
their foot down and say "no more". The judges need to say that the lawsuits
and legal challenges brought in these cases have plenty of precedent and
opinion that there is no basis for the complaint and just throw it straight
out of court. That is how this nonsense is going to stop.
</RANT>
I suspect in this case, you had five airplanes taking off in formation.
Noise levels are cumulative, i.e. if you have two airplanes, it is twice as
loud as one, three is three times as loud. I suspect that all five going at
once was probably pretty loud from the ground. I would assume this wasn't
either late at night or particularly early in the morning since they were
having a "town" meeting at the time. If they did indeed follow published
procedures and pattern then the problem is the noise abatement procedure...
it should state "no formation take-offs" or something similar. As far as
busting the airspace that's a different issue all together.
Sorry for the rant, but this kind of crap really gets under my skin.
Do not archive
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rude RVers?
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> Ok, maybe I'm venting because of that neighbor behind me whose dog barked
>ALL night long but still...
If you don't like people buy acreage. Every neighborhood has at least one
inconsiderate
louse.
Ron Lee
Message 29
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| Subject: | All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm now getting around 20-50 of these fake
messages everyday along with the RV mail. The latest is from serviceVansAircraft,
which means their computer is infected also. Subject line is usually : mailing
error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was blocked.
This virus was caught by my computers McAfee Anti Virus, but then I've never opened
the attachments either. It's more of an annoying virus than anything else.
Once in your computer, it sends out these messages to everyone on your address
book. Spreads like wildfire, from what I'm seeing.
L.Adamson
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I sorry but even though it says it is from Van's...It probably isn't. It is
called spoofing when the virus takes one address out of someone's address
book and uses another as the source. But probably it is someone that has
accessed van's and your computer and the is no way to know where is came
from as it is done randomly. If you keep your computer virus free, that is
about the best you can do.
Cy Galley - Webmaster www.qcbc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
Subject: RV-List: All these virus messages....
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
>
>
> I don't know about everyone else, but I'm now getting around 20-50 of
> these fake messages everyday along with the RV mail. The latest is from
> serviceVansAircraft, which means their computer is infected also. Subject
> line is usually : mailing error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was
> blocked.
>
> This virus was caught by my computers McAfee Anti Virus, but then I've
> never opened the attachments either. It's more of an annoying virus than
> anything else. Once in your computer, it sends out these messages to
> everyone on your address book. Spreads like wildfire, from what I'm
> seeing.
>
> L.Adamson
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
This worm is running about 25% of all email traffic right now.
http://news.com.com/Sober+worm+makes+a
+comeback/2100-7349_3-5698411.html?tag=cd.lede
Those of you running windows, please see www.windowsupdate.com for
upgrades to lower the annoyance level for the rest of us.
do not archive
On Sun, 2005-05-08 at 17:08 -0600, LARRY ADAMSON wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
>
>
> I don't know about everyone else, but I'm now getting around 20-50 of these fake
messages everyday along with the RV mail. The latest is from serviceVansAircraft,
which means their computer is infected also. Subject line is usually :
mailing error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was blocked.
>
> This virus was caught by my computers McAfee Anti Virus, but then I've never
opened the attachments either. It's more of an annoying virus than anything else.
Once in your computer, it sends out these messages to everyone on your address
book. Spreads like wildfire, from what I'm seeing.
>
> L.Adamson
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
Message 32
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| Subject: | All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Not true....the newer viruses simply mimic known "pharmed" email addresses
to make you think it's coming from a viable source. Just because the email
address appears to be from a known source does not in any way mean their
machine is infected. It only means that some "robot" picked picked up
their email address from cyberspace. Of course their machine "could" be
infected, but with the past several generations of viruses, it's highly
unlikely.
Just an FYI....
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LARRY ADAMSON
Subject: RV-List: All these virus messages....
............................The latest is from serviceVansAircraft, which
means their computer is infected also. Subject line is usually : mailing
error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was blocked............
L.Adamson
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Larry,
Do you know the name of the virus? I tried to figure it out from the
subject lines you mentioned but didn't come up with anything definite.
Sounds like a virus that Norton is calling Sober. I'm not sure what
McAfee named it. It has a new variant and is causing a lot of headaches
lately.
Keep those virus definitions up to date folks! If you don't feel like
spending money on McAfee, Norton, Panda or Trend Micro, go download AVG
or Avast. They're free and do a good job.
Thank you Larry for alerting us.
Do not archive
Mark
LARRY ADAMSON wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
>
>
>I don't know about everyone else, but I'm now getting around 20-50 of these fake
messages everyday along with the RV mail. The latest is from serviceVansAircraft,
which means their computer is infected also. Subject line is usually :
mailing error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was blocked.
>
>This virus was caught by my computers McAfee Anti Virus, but then I've never opened
the attachments either. It's more of an annoying virus than anything else.
Once in your computer, it sends out these messages to everyone on your address
book. Spreads like wildfire, from what I'm seeing.
>
>L.Adamson
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Grieve
Subject: Re: RV-List: All these virus messages....
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Larry,
Do you know the name of the virus? I tried to figure it out from the
subject lines you mentioned but didn't come up with anything definite.
Sounds like a virus that Norton is calling Sober. I'm not sure what
McAfee named it. It has a new variant and is causing a lot of headaches
lately.
It's listed as W32/Sober, first detected on 5/2/2005
And just to make it clear, it doesn't generate from the RV list, but several addresses
from this list as well as Van's, parts suppliers, etc. have appeared as
the E-mail originator, even though it's all bogus.
Off course, IMO, a bit of "jail" time would serve well for these people who write
viruses that disrupt every day commerce. This one could tend to jam mail boxes
everywhere, let alone spending company time to discover what's legit and what
isn't.
L.Adamson
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: cleco pliers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
Dave,
Try this. You may not, but most people place any pliers in their hand with
their little finger toward the end of the handles. This puts you at a great
mechanical disadvantage. Simply turn the pliers around So that your index
finger and thumb are toward the ends of the handles. This places the
thumb,index, and middle fingers so that the power of the whole hand is at
the best point of mechanical advantage on the handles. The little finger is
left over to secure the tool in your hand.
John D. Heath
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cleco pliers
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>
> Thanks for the tips. I've thought about a pneumatic cleco tool, and since
> I
> live close to Boeing Surplus I might look for one there. I didn't mention
> Boeing as a source for air tools to the list since it doesn't help much if
> you don't live around here...
> There may be something similar in your area though worth checking out.
> Boeing has bins of Rockwell right angle pneumatic drills for $75 and rivet
> guns by the hundreds.
>
> I can see that the cleco pliers have lots of wasted travel when closed.
> I'm
> going to either find some different ones or modify one of mine... Boeing
> sometimes has boxes of them for a buck. Easy to experiment with.
>
> Sorry about my spell checker changing cleco to chloe. At least the header
> stayed correct...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: cleco pliers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>Simply turn the pliers around...
Thanks John,
I gave that a try and it helps a lot.
Just to clarify my "problem". I don't really have small hands, a medium
glove is the right size for me. I've been running cleco pliers since about
1999 and I don't even think about using them to grab a cleco, they just do
it...
My hands are not getting tired for the most part.
What I find frustrating is when I've got a handfull of parts that I'm trying
to hold in alignment to put in a cleco. Especially with the side grip
clecos I find it difficult to open the pliers up wide enough to pick up the
cleco one handed, in fact I can't do it at all with my left hand. When I
can use both hands it's not a problem.
I see that there is almost half an inch of unused travel when first opening
the pliers. If I could gain that much usable travel I think that would
solve the issue. I looked at all my pliers, all bought at different times
and places and coincidentally they all are USATCO brand. I'm wondering if
another brand might have different handles or a different pivit point...
Thanks for all the suggestions..
Dave
Message 37
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| Subject: | Solenoid installation/wire routing |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
Hi All,
I have recently had the opportunity to disassembly the firewall forward
electrical wiring on a RV-6A and a RV-6.
In both installations, the starter solenoid was mounted on the front side of
the firewall.
In both cases, the large wire from the master solenoid going to the starter
solenoid was chaffing against the corner of an aluminum bracket. The wire
insulation was worn more than half way through to the copper wire. (48 hours
TT on one installation, and the copper was visible through the insulation.)
Please, take a little extra care with this large wire. With the master
switch on, it's hot all the way to the starter solenoid.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS I relocated the master and starter solenoids directly over the battery
box in my RV-6A. The starter wire going through the firewall is only hot when
the starter is engaged.
Message 38
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| Subject: | RV-10 Duckworks Light Kit Installed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey all,
I hadn't had a chance to get the page all completed to post until now,
but I wanted to make sure you all get to see this bit of info. You're
gonna like this...
For those wanting to go right to the link, here you go:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/duckworksHIDS/index.html
After hearing my plea a couple months ago regarding better landing light
options for the RV-10, Don from Duckworks got a hold of an RV-10 and
designed a wing-leading-edge landing light kit for our RV-10's. That
REALLY made my day, because I had been adamant that I wanted HID's,
(really super bright, low power draw (3A) lights that have a normal
lifetime of something like 3000 hours...very durable) and now I had the
option to use either their rectangular, round aircraft standard or
halogen, or round HID's. Having seen Duckworks kits on other RV's over
the years, I was always really impressed with how good they looked.
As far as functionality goes too, I don't think these can be beat.
Sorry to those (Randy and others) who have those MR-16's in the
wingtips, but I really think those are not that fantastic. For one,
they sit on the back wall of the sheared tip, so they may not radiate
as well towards the centerline. As for power, they'll draw 75W each,
so you'll be pulling plenty of amps if you outfit your tips with
one or two on each side...and that light comes with a very high
heat also. They are cheap though, so they were pretty hard to beat
in that regard. In general though, with putting the Nav lights
and strobes into the tips too, I really didn't want those little
landing lights to be my main lighting...they'd make better wig-wags
or something else like that.
So once the Duckworks kit was available, that made up my mind as to
HOW I was going to mount them. I still didn't know what to do about
the bulbs. I wanted at least one HID, but they're pricey, so I didn't
know if I wanted 2. I shopped Ebay, and educated myself on the various
types of HID bulbs. I found out that the really good HID's are D1S
type bulbs....but most of what you see on Ebay is D2S (or R). The "R"
bulbs have a shielding that would cut some light output, so I knew
I wanted an "S". The D1 bulbs also have another big benefit for
us in aviation...the D2S has the bulb igniter in the ballast. The D1S
has the igniter in the bulb. The difference is that the D2S bulbs will
then at times have over 20Kv of signal going over that cable between
the bulb and the ballast....which can cause interference. So, not
wanting to sacrifice my radio's clarity, I decided D1S "Third
Generation" was the only way to go. When you limit yourself to
that option, there is no super low cost way to go. Bulbs and ballasts
will just be expensive. In fact, there is an aviation conversion
kit I found online to replace standard round bulbs with HIDs (the
SAME HIDs as Duckworks uses) for $535!! Duckworks HIDs were a
significantly better deal, considering that theirs came with all
the mounting stuff you'd need too! I was sold....rather than have
one high-power-draw bulb, and one nice efficient and super bright HID,
I'd just get 2 and have it all.
The understandably scary part of the duckworks kit was the idea of
having to cut a hole in the wing...especially with the wing completed.
But, this turned out to be a real non-issue. The completed wing
is nice and stiff, and cuts very easily...in fact, if I had my choice
I would rather install the kit after the leading edge was completed,
rather than do it when the skins weren't riveted up. Besides that,
the kit came with excellent templates with exactly...EXACTLY where
you want to cut. It also contained everything else you need to do
the install. As a bonus, they just redesigned the lens attachment
method to eliminate issues with cracking from drilling holes through
the lens. So, if you were looking for a landing light kit for your
RV-10, or actually any RV, you're really going to find that this kit
is a pretty easy install.
As far as benefits... I think that if you mounted them in the
wheel pants, you'd get much more vibration upon landing. You also
want your lights out way towards the tips, so you don't get the
strobe effect of the light on your prop. And, with the nice
full-size lights mounted in these areas of the wing, you can aim
them to get the light exactly where you want it.
So, I was really impressed, and I decided that I'd try to ease some of
the worry about cutting wing holes and throw together a page that
showed the install. It was my first time with these kits, so
I'm no pro.
That link again: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/duckworksHIDS/index.html
Oh, and even if you can't put the cash into HID's, you can buy the
kit very cheaply with standard rectangular or round bulbs, and upgrade
to the HIDs later using the same mounting.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Finn Lassen wrote:
>There was a remark from the flight school owner that they had been rude
>to "Brian". No idea who Brian is - the line boy?
>
>
>
Once again we would have to hear the other side of the story. :-) If the
line boy spilled fuel all over my airplane
or dragged the hose across a wing etc. I would probably be cranky to him
also. Of course he might not be the line
boy but knowing those guys they were not rude without provocation.
do not archive
Jerry
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: All these virus messages.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
Larry
You may well find that there is no 'serviceVansAircraft' @ Van's and it
is just spoofed.
I get those for credit cards, ebay, paypal, bidbay, all the time, I just
delete those.
Accounts blocked, need to change password, click on 'secure'link,
etc.....delete, delete, delete...
if you want to do some snooping, check out the real (hidden) header. I
bet it never came near van's.
Gert
do not archive
LARRY ADAMSON wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03@msn.com>
>
>
>I don't know about everyone else, but I'm now getting around 20-50 of these fake
messages everyday along with the RV mail. The latest is from serviceVansAircraft,
which means their computer is infected also. Subject line is usually :
mailing error, Re, FWD Re, Your password, or Email was blocked.
>
>This virus was caught by my computers McAfee Anti Virus, but then I've never opened
the attachments either. It's more of an annoying virus than anything else.
Once in your computer, it sends out these messages to everyone on your address
book. Spreads like wildfire, from what I'm seeing.
>
>L.Adamson
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Conversion Coating and Priming with Sanchem |
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Hey Marty,
The answer is that this is a conversion coating, so it is about two or three
molecules thick and needs to be protected with either their clear sealer or a
traditional primer.
Here is the link:
http://www.sanchem.com/
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Empennage
San Ramon, California
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: cleco pliers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Here is another suggestion that worked well for me;
Get some heat shrink from the electonics supplier. The kind that has the
sealant inside. Cut lengths suitable to cover the handles. Shrink it over
the handles
The slightly larger handle will provide a better sized grip and not be as
slippery. In my case the carpel tunnel syndrome 'type' of pain that plagued
me literally went right away.
Jim in Kelowna
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
> Try this. You may not, but most people place any pliers in their hand with
> their little finger toward the end of the handles. This puts you at a
> great
> mechanical disadvantage. Simply turn the pliers around So that your index
> finger and thumb are toward the ends of the handles. >
> John D. Heath
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