---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/11/05:43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:35 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Allen Fulmer) 2. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Sources for electrical system design (LarryRobertHelming) 3. 05:45 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 4. 06:13 AM - Re: Noisy Airplanes (was Rude RV'ers) (James E. Clark) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (James E. Clark) 6. 06:45 AM - New pitot/ static offerings (Evan and Megan Johnson) 7. 06:54 AM - Mason City 3rd annual RV Formation Clinic (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 8. 07:30 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Tim Olson) 9. 07:41 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (David E. Nelson) 10. 07:58 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 09:39:05 A... (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 11. 08:33 AM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Doug Rozendaal) 12. 09:29 AM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Peter Mather) 13. 09:32 AM - Noisy Airplanes and Altitude (Chris W) 14. 09:35 AM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Hull, Don) 15. 10:29 AM - Joy Riding in the Pattern () 16. 10:49 AM - PC680hd (Battery hold down) (George Inman) 17. 10:57 AM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 18. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: Sources for electrical system design (Paul Folbrecht) 19. 11:05 AM - Lycoming O-360 A1A for Sale () 20. 12:09 PM - Re: Mufflers on Rv's (Bob Hodgson) 21. 12:29 PM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Tedd McHenry) 22. 01:09 PM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 (David E. Nelson) 23. 02:31 PM - plane flew into restricted airspace (son hoang) 24. 03:32 PM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Ron Lee) 25. 03:40 PM - Heavy Wing (Darrell Reiley) 26. 04:01 PM - Re: New pitot/ static offerings (Tim Olson) 27. 04:24 PM - Re: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 28. 05:22 PM - Re: Rude RVers (rv6n6r@comcast.net) 29. 05:37 PM - Re: Joy Riding in the Pattern (Tedd McHenry) 30. 06:16 PM - Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI (Bill Schlatterer) 31. 06:40 PM - Re: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to (Ron Lee) 32. 06:51 PM - Re: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI (Tim Bryan) 33. 07:12 PM - Re: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 34. 07:25 PM - Re: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI (Paul Folbrecht) 35. 07:51 PM - Re: [RV7Yahoo] Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI (Darwin N. Barrie) 36. 07:58 PM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Albert Gardner) 37. 08:09 PM - Re: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? (RV6 Flyer) 38. 08:47 PM - Re: New pitot/ static offerings (Jeff Dowling) 39. 09:02 PM - Re: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI (Richard E. Tasker) 40. 09:05 PM - Re: Just trashing my first flap!! (Richard E. Tasker) 41. 09:06 PM - Re: Noisy Airplanes and Altitude (Finn Lassen) 42. 09:42 PM - Re: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? (Konrad L. Werner) 43. 10:11 PM - Mufflers for RVs (Was Re: Noisy Airplanes) (Mark Schrimmer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:39 AM PST US From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" Swivel flush set was in use. I DID try a little boost in air pressure as it "seemed" I was having to rat-a-tat-tat too long on the bottom side. And I WAS getting some "bounce" on the bottom side, but reasoned it was acceptable since it was the bottom. I don't have a pressure gage on the gun but one of those little regulators with a numbered knob you can adjust. Setting has stayed the same for wings and ailerons. By the time I reduced the "regulator" on the gun back to where it had been the damage had been done and I was too frustrated to be able to think straight anyway. I still don't know how I will get my fat hand on a bucking bar over those bottom rib/top skin rivets? And I think I will get my wife to help hold the flap steady in the v-blocks. I know others have probably had to work through similar disappointments and I will too. Thanks for the help. Allen DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Carter Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" Are you using a "swivel flush rivet set"? And what air pressure are you using? Should be down around 35psi? (been along time, but definitely not up at 60 or 80 psi). Straight, unswiveled rivet sets ought to be banned from RV shops. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! > --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" > > I haven't had this much trouble since I took 3 attempts to get a good trim > tab!! > > Wing top skins went beautiful, leading edges, ailerons, but I have trashed > my first flap! Bad thing is I don't know what to do different?? The 3x > rivet gun is bouncing all around making smileys galore! I can't really get > my hand down inside to get a good hold on the bucking bar! First 3 rivets > on an inside rib and 2 are sticking out halfway and the other has a big > smiley looking at me! And things seemed to be going so good and I was so > proud of my work! Maybe that was the problem? > > Time to go to bed I guess. Maybe I can learn what I am doing on this > trashed flap and if the other one turns out good I can just order another > set of parts. > > Frustrating! Can't quit! Got to go on! Tomorrow will be a better day! > > Allen Fulmer > RV7 Wings, QB Fuse on hand > N707AF reserved > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:21 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Sources for electrical system design --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" ----- Original Message ----- > Turns out, that removing the alt field voltage won't shut down an > internally regulated alternator, and disconnecting >from the battery can > cause a load dump. Haven't yet flown the plane, but it looks like I'm > taking out the O.V. (over voltage) setup. ((((((((())))))))) Good point. IR (internally regulated) alternators are so plentiful and reasonably priced. Everyone can easily accept the thought of having a problem in podunk, podunk where there is an Autozone close that has a freshly overhauled alternator replacement. No hold over, reasonable prices. BUT there is a problem, we might also like the idea of OV protection, LV warning, and perhaps the ability to adjust the voltage up or down a tenth or two. That is where the IR alt does not work. SO,,,,,,decide whether you can live with IR and its risks --or-- NR (non regulated) with OV/LV regulator. Vans sells a NR alternator but you can't be running your electric copier while flying =:-) Bob of Aeroelectric advocates the NR alternator. Whichever way you go with, you have some risks, which you should understand, and their costs. Yearly out of pocket cost appears to be lower by not using a fresh battery every year as Bob advocates. However the risk is lowered with Bob's admonition. Risk vs. cost. You understand them and make and fly your decision within the design and needs of your flying. I found that I revised some of my flying goals to make the components in my electrical system more acceptable risk-cost wise. I recommend, if you haven't already done so, to get a copy of Aeroelectric Bob's manual and read it at least twice. A few nights well spent. No, I am not on Bob's payroll, I am just happen my RV7 is flying using one of his wiring designs and appears to not have any electrical problems. And I more fully understand what Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up FLYING - Phase 1 Flight Testing ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:37 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 5/11/05 6:37:28 AM Central Daylight Time, afulmer@charter.net writes: > I still don't know how I will get my fat hand on a bucking bar over those > bottom rib/top skin rivets? And I think I will get my wife to help hold the > flap steady in the v-blocks. >>> I had good luck using a modified splitting wedge for a bucking bar- seems it came in real handy on the flap ribs and also for all the rear control surface rivets. There's enough mass in it to help control it when banging on the skinny end. Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:08 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Noisy Airplanes (was Rude RV'ers) --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Are you sure that what you are referencing is not the "cabin heat muff" or "carb heat muff"? The widely used Vetterman cross-over exhausts that I suspect most of us use is non-mufflered as far as I know. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- | server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Folbrecht | Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:17 PM | To: rv-list@matronics.com | Subject: Re: RV-List: Noisy Airplanes (was Rude RV'ers) | | --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht | | I'm still a tad confused on this. Van's FWF kits include what they call | a | "muffler". What I think you're saying is that this "muffler" is so | ineffective | that it barely qualifies as one. Correct? If not, you're saying that | most | RVers do not use Van's FWF kits with their Lycs or do not use the Van's | exhaust | stack. | | > Most RV's have no mufflers at all... not a Van's norm... | > | | | | | ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:03 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Thanks Mike for posting this. I was about to look up the pages and diagrams to post with my notes below. For those who might not have experienced this from inside a plane, it is not only legal but is understood at the "big airports with picky controllers that will remind you if you are doing anything wrong :-) ". If you ask properly they will not only oblige, they will vector you into position (mindful of other traffic) and sometimes call the point for lead to make the first turn. Of course at some (non-towered) airports when it is first introduced, there may be people in the pattern that are wondering what is going on (they might not be familiar with the AIM reference below), but a courteous (and quick) explanation works wonders. This I have experienced. Finally, upon returning to the home base airport in IFR conditions (riding with the FBO owner, Aeronautics Commission member, bazillion hour pilot) this maneuver was performed after we broken out in the clear on the localizer approach. He pointed out to me how it was a MUCH safer approach as even though the ceilings were a bit low, it was still LEGAL for VFR traffic to be in the pattern. James | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- | server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) | Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:18 PM | To: rv-list@matronics.com | Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern | | --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" | | | OK here we go again on the overheads. | They are very standard and are defined in the AIM chapter 5. Quote | below. Searchable here: | http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0504.html | {SNIP} ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:51 AM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: RV-List: New pitot/ static offerings --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" A few months ago there was a thread about the poor choices available for pitot tubes and static port kits. We have just received our first batch of CNC machined pitot tubes and they look beautiful! Please have a look http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm The pitot kit comes complete with the mast and all of the hardware you need for a super clean installation. I believe this is the only kit available right now as a complete package....most others require you to go searching for the components from different sources. You will find a significant cost savings with the kit as well as really nice hardware. We are currently prototyping a heated version, but it is still a bit down the road. Cheers, Evan Johnson www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:19 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Mason City 3rd annual RV Formation Clinic From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Its that time of year for the Mason City Iowa 3 day formation clinic. Its held the weekend before Oshkosh so you can gear up and head in for the show. This is one of several clinics held around the country. The training program is provided by Team RV with support from other talented folks to include the SoCal group, Falcon Flight, Buckeye flight and others. These RV'ers have lots of formation experience and freely give of their time and money to provide this training free of charge. Obviously they are not in it for the money, but the love of the game. You will not receive a better training in your RV than what these teams provide. The training is intense and carefully checked by experienced pilots and instructors. Im sure participants from past years will chime in and provide you some feedback on the value and activities. Its more fun than should be allowed. Great planes, great flying, and as always..... great people. Details can be found at the website below. Doug Rozendaal is our host. You all should know him from his excellent posts on the RV-list. Last year our training culminated in a 13 ship on a P-51D Mustang, Mustang flown by Doug. Fun had by all. http://www.mstewart.net/teamrv/formationclinic/masoncity05 Hope to see you there. Kahuna Aka Mike Stewart ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:43 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson Can you post a photo to make it easier to see where you're talking about? Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Allen Fulmer wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" > > I haven't had this much trouble since I took 3 attempts to get a good trim > tab!! > > Wing top skins went beautiful, leading edges, ailerons, but I have trashed > my first flap! Bad thing is I don't know what to do different?? The 3x > rivet gun is bouncing all around making smileys galore! I can't really get > my hand down inside to get a good hold on the bucking bar! First 3 rivets > on an inside rib and 2 are sticking out halfway and the other has a big > smiley looking at me! And things seemed to be going so good and I was so > proud of my work! Maybe that was the problem? > > Time to go to bed I guess. Maybe I can learn what I am doing on this > trashed flap and if the other one turns out good I can just order another > set of parts. > > Frustrating! Can't quit! Got to go on! Tomorrow will be a better day! > > Allen Fulmer > RV7 Wings, QB Fuse on hand > N707AF reserved > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:55 AM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 09:39:05 AM, Serialize by Router on MailServ59-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 09:39:07 AM, Serialize complete at 05/11/2005 09:39:07 AM --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" Hi Mark, As I'm getting to do this... Are you talking about a wedge for splitting wood? And what type of modifications? Got a picture? Thanks, /\/elson RV-7A - Feveristly finishing the wings before the fus shows up Austin, TX On Wed, 11 May 2005 Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote: > I had good luck using a modified splitting wedge for a bucking bar- seems it > came in real handy on the flap ribs and also for all the rear control surface > rivets. There's enough mass in it to help control it when banging on the > skinny end. > > Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:01 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 09:39:05 A... --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 5/11/05 9:43:42 AM Central Daylight Time, david.nelson@pobox.com writes: > Are you talking about a wedge for splitting wood? And what type of > modifications? Got a picture? >>> Yep- maybe $10-12 down at the local hardware store, WallyWorld or Lowes Depot. These come kind of rough- you'll need one good surface on both sides down near the pointy end. As purchased, mine had too much radius along the side near the point, so I ground it flatter (on the side) until I could get a fairly square edge, then polished both sides and dulled the original cutting edge to avoid scratching any metal it might contact. What you're shooting for is a good bucking surface close to the very end of the wedge on both sides so you can flip it over to get 'em from both directions. Sorry, but don't think I ever took a foto of it... And if it don't work, it still makes a nice doorstop, or you can even split farwood with it! Mark ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:32 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" > > Thanks Mike for posting this. I was about to look up the pages and > diagrams > to post with my notes below. > > For those who might not have experienced this from inside a plane, it is > not > only legal but is understood at the "big airports with picky controllers > that will remind you if you are doing anything wrong :-) ". If you ask > properly they will not only oblige, they will vector you into position > (mindful of other traffic) and sometimes call the point for lead to make > the > first turn. > > Of course at some (non-towered) airports when it is first introduced, > there > may be people in the pattern that are wondering what is going on (they > might not be familiar with the AIM reference below), but a courteous (and > quick) explanation works wonders. This I have experienced. > > Finally, upon returning to the home base airport in IFR conditions (riding > with the FBO owner, Aeronautics Commission member, bazillion hour pilot) > this maneuver was performed after we broken out in the clear on the > localizer approach. He pointed out to me how it was a MUCH safer approach > as > even though the ceilings were a bit low, it was still LEGAL for VFR > traffic > to be in the pattern. > > James > > > {SNIP} > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:14 AM PST US From: "Peter Mather" Subject: RE: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" Allen What weight bar are you using? I've found that my riveting has been transformed since I got an aerospace surplus 3lb bar off ebay. Previously I was having problems when using some of the recommended lighter bars. This new one will buck 3/32" rivets without any pressure other than its own weight. I've only got a cheap manual squeezer so am bucking nearly everything (including all 1/8" rivets). As long as I can get the heavy bar in it is no problem. Also, I don't subscribe to the swivel flush set argument. I use a 1.5" solid flush set with a neoprene ring round the edge. I've had no problems with smilies as the set is big enough to guarantee its aligned. Best regards Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" > > Swivel flush set was in use. I DID try a little boost in air pressure as it > "seemed" I was having to rat-a-tat-tat too long on the bottom side. And I > WAS getting some "bounce" on the bottom side, but reasoned it was acceptable > since it was the bottom. I don't have a pressure gage on the gun but one of > those little regulators with a numbered knob you can adjust. Setting has > stayed the same for wings and ailerons. By the time I reduced the > "regulator" on the gun back to where it had been the damage had been done > and I was too frustrated to be able to think straight anyway. > > I still don't know how I will get my fat hand on a bucking bar over those > bottom rib/top skin rivets? And I think I will get my wife to help hold the > flap steady in the v-blocks. > > I know others have probably had to work through similar disappointments and > I will too. > > Thanks for the help. > > Allen > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:24 AM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Noisy Airplanes and Altitude --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> I was just curious how high you would have to be for the sound level on the ground to be low enough that it probably wouldn't be hard in someones house. Maybe there is a formula of x DB drop per 1000 feet of altitude. Does anyone know? -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:29 AM PST US From: "Hull, Don" Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" Mike, so you are telling us that everytime you do an overhead break to a landing you have been on an IFR flight plan? I seriously doubt it, especially when you are in formation flight. According to the source you quote, that is the only time it is allowed. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> OK here we go again on the overheads. They are very standard and are defined in the AIM chapter 5. Quote below. Searchable here: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0504.html 5-4-25. Overhead Approach Maneuver a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) may request ATC authorization for an overhead maneuver. An overhead maneuver is not an instrument approach procedure. Overhead maneuver patterns are developed at airports where aircraft have an operational need to conduct the maneuver. An aircraft conducting an overhead maneuver is considered to be VFR and the IFR flight plan is cancelled when the aircraft reaches the initial point on the initial approach portion of the maneuver. (See FIG 5-4-22.) The existence of a standard overhead maneuver pattern does not eliminate the possible requirement for an aircraft to conform to conventional rectangular patterns if an overhead maneuver cannot be approved. Aircraft operating to an airport without a functioning control tower must initiate cancellation of an IFR flight plan prior to executing the overhead maneuver. Cancellation of the IFR flight plan must be accomplished after crossing the landing threshold on the initial portion of the maneuver or after landing. Controllers may authorize an overhead maneuver and issue the following to arriving aircraft: Enjoy, Mike Do not archive this again -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > The 180 overhead landing is not standard. I do formation flying, > takeoff, approach and landing, including 180 overheads, however you have > to be aware that you will startle other pilots and folks on the ground > with mass arrivals and military patterns. Some bystanders love it, and my > RV buddies think everyone should love the show. They don't all love it. > May be it is jealousy, but just be sensitive to that. Also this could be > actionable by the FAA. Patterns are not specified by the FARs except "all > turns must be made to the left unless noted otherwise." However US > Government Vs. Joe Pilot, in appeals court, has shown the AIM, which is > not regulations, does show a standard pattern and has been upheld as > de-facto law. Meaning pilots not flying the pattern per the AIM can get > the FAA shaft. Now for the other side of the story. Flying a standard pattern behind a Piper Cub flying at 35 knots and doing a Bomber Pattern, (that is 5 miles downwind, 2 miles crosswind and another 5 miles on final with a 5 minute taxi on the runway before turn off on a taxiway) is sheer frustration for even a Citabria Pilot. My philosophy is if you are going to land, then land. Do not joy ride in the pattern. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:41 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Bob and Mike: Bob, I agree 100%, and Mike, I agree a 180 OH can be done safely. Patterns do get stretched out to ridiculous lengths, but are a function of number of planes in pattern and student activity. I was a full time CFI (I) and MEI. I taught my students to do short, normal approaches and to adapt to the eventual cross-country down wind patterns of other pilots. It is a fact of flying, especially at busy airports. We all need to consider all pilots and the airport community, some of which might be student pilots or new RV pilots getting use to faster speeds, giving themselves longer finals to sort it out. >"OK here we go again on the overheads. They are very standard and are defined in the AIM chapter 5. Mike, you sound frustrated, but sorry your AIM reference is not relevant and can't I agree with you. Your AIR reference for the 180 overhead is clearly for an IFR pilot, a single airplane, ONE airplane to do a circling type maneuver during a contact approach. If you are suggesting this is approval to do yank-and-bank in a pattern, VFR, solo or with a formation flight of several planes, I respectively disagree. >Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual >Meteorological Conditions (VMC) may request ATC authorization for an >overhead maneuver. FIRST: Again there is NO REG on patterns except make all turn to the left unless noted otherwise, as I said. 360, 270, 180, 90 straight-in is not prohibited, but..... If something happens it is your responsibility to operate in a safe manner. Also, to avoid doing aerobatics in the pattern by definition (far 91.307), bank angles must be limited to 60 degree bank. Many RV 180 breaks are done at high initial speeds and large (up to 90 degree) initial bank angles. There is nothing making this cool to the FAA. Again some think it looks great but it tends to get people excited in a bad way when they see a 90 degree bank in the pattern. SECOND: The purpose of this AIM par. 5-4-25, "overhead approach", involves canceling an IFR flight plan if you see the runway for a "contact approach", saving you from flying outbound to do the full instrument procedure or vectors to the full approach. You can fly any pattern you want once approved, published circling approach, straight in, entry on the base or 180 overhead. I never said the 180 overheads are not a recognized maneuver, cannot be done safely or do not have a use. Read your ref. The words, IFR flight plan an ATC APPROVAL. When I was a freight pilot, breaking off my IFR clearance and diving thru a visual opening to the end of the runway to abbreviate a full approach was always an option if the airport was clear. If it were marginal, I would do the whole approach. Flying for a big airline, it is not an option as company policy does not allow contact or circling approaches. In a court of law, if you pull this out to justify your gaggle of 6 RV's doing a for mation 180 overhead landing, which might have almost caused an accident, par 5-4-25 will mean nothing. Again the AIM is not regulatory, but the standard rectangle pattern, 45, base, final, landing is a de-facto requirement, shown over and over in court. Do what you want in your own judgment, but don't expect par 5-4-25 to save your legal tail. If it is a towered airport they can approve your Flight of 6 RVs and 180 Break. Than you are golden. At a non-towered airport and a formation of RVs cuts someone off flying downwind/base/final, that is rude and possibly dangerous. If you are in radio contact with other traffic they often will give way, and tell you go for it. The point is a 180 overhead approach is an option, not a right. My point is as a group we cant seem arrogant about flying the pattern we want. We DO NOT have extra privilege or rights to fly formation around an airport (unless tower gives it to you). Regardless what AIM you quote that angry Cessna driver on the ramp, your formation of RVs just cut off, he is not going to care and the FAA might. If anyone is in the pattern before you, they have the right to fly a full pattern, and you have an obligation to follow them if they where there first, even if it means an extended downwind at 80 mph. When I am flying the jet at work and the plane in front of me decides to slow way down, 10 miles from the outer marker, for no reason, after ATC told them to keep their speed up, aggravates me, but what are you going to do, pass them on the left? There is plenty case law and rulings against pilots not flying basic rectangular pattern. My only point is safety. The FEDs can use the reckless operation card at anytime. It is rare, but I have seen a few formation groups get a little arrogant attitude, they dont know how to fly and this is how we did it in the Air Force. They felt they have some kind of extra privilege or right away because they are in formation. Keep in mind I love flying formation and the above attitude was only observed once in 15 years of flying RVs. Unless the you are a blimp or a glider you never have the right away over another powered plane, unless you where there first. Regardless of the FAA, FARs or AIM, other pilots may not like your formation flight in the traffic pattern. Regards George Time: 02:18:14 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" OK here we go again on the overheads. They are very standard and are defined in the AIM chapter 5. Quote below. Searchable here: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0504.html 5-4-25. Overhead Approach Maneuver a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) may request ATC authorization for an overhead maneuver. An overhead maneuver is not an instrument approach procedure. Overhead maneuver patterns are developed at airports where aircraft have an operational need to conduct the maneuver. An aircraft conducting an overhead maneuver is considered to be VFR and the IFR flight plan is canceled when the aircraft reaches the initial point on the initial approach portion of the maneuver. (See FIG 5-4-22.) The existence of a standard overhead maneuver pattern does not eliminate the possible requirement for an aircraft to conform to conventional rectangular patterns if an overhead maneuver cannot be approved. Aircraft operating to an airport without a functioning control tower must initiate cancellation of an IFR flight plan prior to executing the overhead maneuver. Cancellation of the IFR flight plan must be accomplished after crossing the landing threshold on the initial portion of the maneuver or after landing. Controllers may authorize an overhead maneuver and issue the following to arriving aircraft: Enjoy, Mike Do not archive this again -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > The 180 overhead landing is not standard. I do formation flying, > takeoff, approach and landing, including 180 overheads, however you > have to be aware that you will startle other pilots and folks on the > ground with mass arrivals and military patterns. Some bystanders love it, >and my RV buddies think everyone should love the show. They don't all love >it. May be it is jealousy, but just be sensitive to that. Also this could > be actionable by the FAA. Patterns are not specified by the FARs except > "all turns must be made to the left unless noted otherwise." However US > Government Vs. Joe Pilot, in appeals court, has shown the AIM, which > is not regulations, does show a standard pattern and has been upheld as > de-facto law. Meaning pilots not flying the pattern per the AIM can > get the FAA shaft. Now for the other side of the story. Flying a standard pattern behind a Piper Cub flying at 35 knots and doing a Bomber Pattern, (that is 5 miles downwind, 2 miles crosswind and another 5 miles on final with a 5 minute taxi on the runway before turn off on a taxiway) is sheer frustration for even a Citabria Pilot. My philosophy is if you are going to land, then land. Do not joy ride in the pattern. Bob RV6 NightFighter --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:14 AM PST US From: "George Inman" Subject: RV-List: PC680hd (Battery hold down) --> RV-List message posted by: "George Inman" I was going to use the PC680 hold down to mount a PC680 battery in my RV-8. I decided against it,because the battery cannot be removed without removing the hold down. There is a lip on the hold down,and then the engine mount is in the way Has anyone else used the hold down on the firewall? GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman@mts.net CELL 204 799 7062 HOME 204 287 8334 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:38 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Joy Riding in the Pattern From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Points addressed below: -----Original Message----- From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com [mailto:gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com] Subject: Joy Riding in the Pattern FIRST: Again there is NO REG on patterns except make all turn to the left unless noted otherwise, as I said. 360, 270, 180, 90 straight-in is not prohibited, but..... If something happens it is your responsibility to operate in a safe manner. Also, to avoid doing aerobatics in the pattern by definition (far 91.307), bank angles must be limited to 60 degree bank. Many RV 180 breaks are done at high initial speeds and large (up to 90 degree) initial bank angles. There is nothing making this cool to the FAA. Again some think it looks great but it tends to get people excited in a bad way when they see a 90 degree bank in the pattern. I did not recommend any aerobatic maneuvers or even suggest how to execute the maneuver. In a court of law, if you pull this out to justify your gaggle of 6 RV's doing a formation 180 overhead landing, which might have almost caused an accident, par 5-4-25 will mean nothing. Everything means nothing if done to almost cause an accident. Again the AIM is not regulatory Your right. But it can provide guidance. . At a non-towered airport and a formation of RVs cuts someone off flying downwind/base/final, that is rude and possibly dangerous. True. Again regardless of what is being done. . We DO NOT have extra privilege or rights to fly formation around an airport (unless tower gives it to you). We have neither less nor more. If anyone is in the pattern before you, they have the right to fly a full pattern, and you have an obligation to follow the! m if they where there first, even if it means an extended downwind at 80 mph. True, again regardless of what maneuver is being preformed but I have seen a few formation groups get a little arrogant attitude, "they don't know how to fly and this is how we did it in the Air Force." that's a different problem and has nothing to do with whether or not it can be preformed legally Regardless of the FAA, FARs or AIM, other pilots may not like your formation flight in the traffic pattern. Agreed and we have an obligation to play friendly, talk nice, give way, advertise through communication, and... perform the maneuver, whether they like the formation in the pattern or not. There are a lot of things I don't like in the pattern to include long down winds, but... I talk nice nice to em anyway. Best Regards, Mike Time: 02:18:14 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > OK here we go again on the overheads. They are very standard and are defined in the AIM chapter 5. Quote below. Searchable here: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0504.html 5-4-25. Overhead Approach Maneuver a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual Meteorologi! cal Conditions (VMC) may request ATC authorization for an overhead maneuver. An overhead maneuver is not an instrument approach procedure. Overhead maneuver patterns are developed at airports where aircraft have an operational need to conduct the maneuver. An aircraft conducting an overhead maneuver is considered to be VFR and the IFR flight plan is canceled when the aircraft reaches the initial point on the initial approach portion of the maneuver. (See FIG 5-4-22.) The existence of a standard overhead maneuver pattern does not eliminate the possible requirement for an aircraft to conform to conventional rectangular patterns if an overhead maneuver cannot be approved. Aircraft operating to an airport without a functioning control tower must initiate cancellation of an IFR flight plan prior to executing the overhead maneuver. Cancellation of the IFR flight plan must be accomplished after crossing the landing threshold on the initial p! ortion of the maneuver or after landing. Controllers may authorize an overhead maneuver and issue the following to arriving aircraft: Enjoy, Mike Do not archive this again -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > The 180 overhead landing is not standard. I do formation flying, > takeoff, approach and landing, including 180 overheads, however you > have to be aware that you will startle other pilots and folks on the > ground with mass arrivals and military patterns. Some bystanders love it, >and my RV buddies think everyone should love the show. They don't all love >it. May be it is jealousy, but just be sensitive to that. Also this could > be actionable by the FAA. Patterns are not specified by the FARs except > "all turns must be made to the left unless noted otherwise." However US > Government Vs. Joe Pilot, in appeals court, has shown the AIM, which > is not regulations, does show a standard pattern and has been upheld as > de-facto law. Meaning pilots not flying the pattern per the AIM can > get the FAA shaft. Now for the other side of the story. Flying a standard pattern behind a Piper Cub flying at 35 knots and doing a Bomber Pattern! , (that is 5 miles downwind, 2 miles crosswind and another 5 miles on final with a 5 minute taxi on the runway before turn off on a taxiway) is sheer frustration for even a Citabria Pilot. My philosophy is if you are going to land, then land. Do not joy ride in the pattern. Bob RV6 NightFighter _____ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:10 AM PST US From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Sources for electrical system design --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht I did some reading. I think I will go with the B&C alternator. I think I will need the 60A too which is $600 - ouch!! --- LARRY ADAMSON wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Folbrecht > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Sources for electrical system design > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com > > > This alternator debate has been a tough one. I have a 60 internally regulated > alt. from Van's. A few years ago, I installed the O.V, protection that opened > the main cable from the alt. to battery. Turns out, that removing the alt > field voltage won't shut down an internally regulated alternator, and > disconnecting from the battery can cause a load dump. Haven't yet flown the > plane, but it looks like I'm taking out the O.V. (over voltage) setup. There > is a good discussion of this on the Matronics Aeroelectric list during the > last month. > > > Seriously? I thought all the hard decisions had been made. Damn! > > Is it that big a deal? I admit I'm not expert, but I've never had an > alternator failure (Ok, in my measly 300 hours) or heard of one firsthand > even > on airplanes with very old alternators. Which I think are all externally > regulated.. I guess it's another point to research.. and I guess there is > probably a reason why a B&C alternator costs 2x what the one Mattituck > supplies > does. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:37 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Lycoming O-360 A1A for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: I have a Lycoming 0-360 A1A for sale. $8500 1700 TTSN 1000 since TOH. Has carburator and starter, no other accessories. Set up for constant speed with a govenor pad and line from govenor to prop. Wide Deck. This engine came out of a piper navajo that had the O-360 conversion done. I bought both engines. One for my rv-6a project and one for my wifes rv-4. She had decided that she wants a new XP-360 instead so I am selling her engine. Buyer has to pay shipping and crating costs or come and pick it up. Contact Tom Velvick in Peoria, AZ at 623-261-2906 cell, 623-979-2519 home phone. My email is tomvelvick@cox.net ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:51 PM PST US From: "Bob Hodgson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Mufflers on Rv's --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hodgson" "Prop noise is loudest" - not necessarily, and it's very 'peaky' in line with the plane of the prop. Keep helical tip speed below around 800 fps and you avoid the annoying T6 blare. Not a problem on fixed pitch props unless they're very fine, and on a CS prop that allows 2700 rpm on take-off, just get back to 25/25 as soon as safely possible after take-off. Exhaust noise remains the dominant factor for most of the time an aeroplane is overflying, and as for mufflers, the Swiss type in Tony Bingelis' books works well for damping out the high frequencies. However the Lycoming sound spectrum shows highest powers under 800Hz. An expansion chamber muffler of adequate volume (say over 270 cu in) should work better for these low frequencies. Even treating the ends of the exhaust pipes as per the Wicks 'piccolo' takes some of the 'bite' out of the sound. Some German companies have done successful work on certificated mufflers and will be happy to sell you a couple (for enormous piles of euros!) They are much smaller / lighter than the Swiss muffler in Tony's book. Have a Google for Gomolzig and Liese for starters. Our Popular Flying Association takes noise reduction seriously, and some info can be found on their website: http://www.pfa.org.uk/engineering_services/silencing_papers.asp Performance loss may be less than feared using these new free-breathing mufflers. If the length of pipe is tuned to say 2500rpm, it may not even happen, according to some reports. My RV is not yet flying, so I can't quote actual figures yet. I do however intend to take before and after readings when playing around with mufflers. You can still legally fly an 'experimental' without any muffler over here in the UK, but for how long?? We've lost a lot of airfields to noise complaints, so have to disarm the critics before they shut us down completely. Just my 2c /pence worth, YMMV etc Bob (RV3B - still starting 'finishing') ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:52 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > --> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" > > Mike, so you are telling us that everytime you do an overhead break to a > landing you have been on an IFR flight plan? I seriously doubt it, > especially when you are in formation flight. According to the source you > quote, that is the only time it is allowed. > Don Don: How do you get that interpretation? The source says, "Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) may request ATC authorization for an overhead maneuver." It says nothing whatsoever about when an overhead may not be used. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:25 PM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" 09":39:05.A...@roxy.matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 09:39:05 A... 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 03:08:39 PM, Serialize by Router on MailServ58-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December 15, 2004) at 05/11/2005 03:08:41 PM, Serialize complete at 05/11/2005 03:08:41 PM --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" Thanks Mark, I've got an better idea/vision of what you are talking about. Thanks, /\/elson On Wed, 11 May 2005 Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote: > Yep- maybe $10-12 down at the local hardware store, WallyWorld or Lowes > Depot. These come kind of rough- you'll need one good surface on both sides down > near the pointy end. As purchased, mine had too much radius along the side > near the point, so I ground it flatter (on the side) until I could get a fairly > square edge, then polished both sides and dulled the original cutting edge to > avoid scratching any metal it might contact. What you're shooting for is a > good bucking surface close to the very end of the wedge on both sides so you can > flip it over to get 'em from both directions. Sorry, but don't think I ever > took a foto of it... > > And if it don't work, it still makes a nice doorstop, or you can even split > farwood with it! > > Mark ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:23 PM PST US From: "son hoang" Subject: RV-List: plane flew into restricted airspace --> RV-List message posted by: "son hoang" C 152 w/ 2 men on board violated no fly zone White House and Congress evacuated red level alert stock market dived because of the security scare this incident made me angry, frustrated and very sad I just shook my head in disbelief there was much over reaction to the real threat but if we GA pilots keep doing this we will lose any freedom we have to fly who do we have to blame but ourselves ( or a few rotten ones among us) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hodgson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Mufflers on Rv's > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hodgson" > > "Prop noise is loudest" - not necessarily, and it's very 'peaky' in line > with the plane of the prop. Keep helical tip speed below around 800 fps and > you avoid the annoying T6 blare. Not a problem on fixed pitch props unless > they're very fine, and on a CS prop that allows 2700 rpm on take-off, just > get back to 25/25 as soon as safely possible after take-off. > > Exhaust noise remains the dominant factor for most of the time an aeroplane > is overflying, and as for mufflers, the Swiss type in Tony Bingelis' books > works well for damping out the high frequencies. However the Lycoming sound > spectrum shows highest powers under 800Hz. An expansion chamber muffler of > adequate volume (say over 270 cu in) should work better for these low > frequencies. Even treating the ends of the exhaust pipes as per the Wicks > 'piccolo' takes some of the 'bite' out of the sound. Some German companies > have done successful work on certificated mufflers and will be happy to sell > you a couple (for enormous piles of euros!) They are much smaller / lighter > than the Swiss muffler in Tony's book. Have a Google for Gomolzig and Liese > for starters. > > Our Popular Flying Association takes noise reduction seriously, and some > info can be found on their website: > http://www.pfa.org.uk/engineering_services/silencing_papers.asp > > Performance loss may be less than feared using these new free-breathing > mufflers. If the length of pipe is tuned to say 2500rpm, it may not even > happen, according to some reports. > > My RV is not yet flying, so I can't quote actual figures yet. I do however > intend to take before and after readings when playing around with mufflers. > You can still legally fly an 'experimental' without any muffler over here in > the UK, but for how long?? We've lost a lot of airfields to noise > complaints, so have to disarm the critics before they shut us down > completely. > > Just my 2c /pence worth, YMMV etc > > Bob > > (RV3B - still starting 'finishing') > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:57 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee I believe that the original post used an IFR scenario to justify all uses of this approach. Ron Lee > > Mike, so you are telling us that everytime you do an overhead break to a > > landing you have been on an IFR flight plan? I seriously doubt it, > > especially when you are in formation flight. According to the source you > > quote, that is the only time it is allowed. > > Don > >Don: > >How do you get that interpretation? The source says, "Pilots operating in >accordance with an IFR flight plan in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) >may request ATC authorization for an overhead maneuver." It says nothing >whatsoever about when an overhead may not be used. > >Tedd McHenry >Surrey, BC, Canada > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:28 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: RV-List: Heavy Wing --> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley Read this for starters www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf Darrell Reiley Round Rock, Texas RV 7A #70125 N622DR (reserved) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:50 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: New pitot/ static offerings --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson Those really ARE beautiful. Now if you only offered a Heated version...... I've been waiting for the Gretz GA-1000, but unfortunately it's getting closer to the time I'm just going to have to buy what's currently available. -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > > > A few months ago there was a thread about the poor choices available > for pitot tubes and static port kits. We have just received our first > batch of CNC machined pitot tubes and they look beautiful! Please > have a look http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm > The pitot kit comes complete with the mast and all of the hardware > you need for a super clean installation. I believe this is the only > kit available right now as a complete package....most others require > you to go searching for the components from different sources. You > will find a significant cost savings with the kit as well as really > nice hardware. We are currently prototyping a heated version, but it > is still a bit down the road. Cheers, Evan Johnson > www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:52 PM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Hi Ron. How is the EASTER EGG doing? Wish we had kept it. Flying a 7 right now and hope to come to LOE 5. Are u suggesting a change of dates for LOE to coincide with the balloon activities? Regards, Doug ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:36 PM PST US From: rv6n6r@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Re: Rude RVers --> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net Well I know some of those guys too and I think they're RUDE. Imagine taking off for the Caribbean and leaving me behind! I don't care that it's my fault I didn't go. They should have stayed rather than leave me behind. Rude b@$#ards! ;-) Randall Henderson RV-6 do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:26 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: RE: RV-List: Joy Riding in the Pattern --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > > I believe that the original post used an IFR scenario to justify all uses > of this approach. If I'm reading the posts in the right order, that's true. But, unless I missed the post, there so far hasn't been any reference presented that suggests overhead breaks are for IFR flights only. Can someone provide such a reference? Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:20 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Decided to cheat and ordered a custom interior from Abby at Flightline Interiors for my 7a. Having a golf club compartment and lower baggage access panels complicated that area immensely. Also wanted something a little different on the seats. All the stuff came today, some 30 separate pieces and I am totally amazed at the workman(woman)ship and detail. Won't have it installed for a while but simply had to put in a plug for Abby after having the finished product in my hand! Now that she is not working on mine, I would highly recommend her operation! You will not be disappointed. Thanks Bill S 7a Ark fuse/panel ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:38 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Albuquerque, NM?@roxy.matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Albuquerque, NM? > Are u suggesting a change of dates for LOE to coincide with the > balloon activities? >Regards, >Doug Absolutely not. This has nada to do with LOE. This is a possible new fly-in opportunity that offers different things to see and do than LOE Ron ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:53 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" I have to second this. Abby did my interior and I am verrrrrry happy with it. Tim RV6 - N616TB DNA -------Original Message------- From: Bill Schlatterer Subject: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Decided to cheat and ordered a custom interior from Abby at Flightline Interiors for my 7a. Having a golf club compartment and lower baggage access panels complicated that area immensely. Also wanted something a little different on the seats. All the stuff came today, some 30 separate pieces and I am totally amazed at the workman(woman)ship and detail. Won't have it installed for a while but simply had to put in a plug for Abby after having the finished product in my hand! Now that she is not working on mine, I would highly recommend her operation! You will not be disappointed. Thanks Bill S 7a Ark fuse/panel ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:07 PM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com OK. I wish the timing was such that I could make both in one trip. dp ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:47 PM PST US From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: Re: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht I'm lucky enough to live just a few miles from Abby and lucky enough to have flown in one of the 7s she did (and also flew in herself I undertand) and it is indeed impeccable. Interior's a no-brainer for me when I get to that stage! --- Tim Bryan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" > > I have to second this. Abby did my interior and I am verrrrrry happy with > it. > Tim > RV6 - N616TB > DNA > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Bill Schlatterer > Date: 05/11/05 18:19:03 > To: rv-list@matronics.com; RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" net> > > Decided to cheat and ordered a custom interior from Abby at Flightline > Interiors for my 7a. Having a golf club compartment and lower baggage > access panels complicated that area immensely. Also wanted something a > little different on the seats. All the stuff came today, some 30 separate > pieces and I am totally amazed at the workman(woman)ship and detail. Won't > have it installed for a while but simply had to put in a plug for Abby after > having the finished product in my hand! > > Now that she is not working on mine, I would highly recommend her operation! > You will not be disappointed. > > > Thanks Bill S > 7a Ark fuse/panel > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:25 PM PST US From: "Darwin N. Barrie" Subject: RV-List: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" I echo your sentiments. I had already chosen a material and wanted someone familiar with RV seats to use my stuff. She gladly accepted. I received my seats and everything fits great. FYI, I asked her how she liked the material. (White leather like material and blue microfiber for the center pieces.) She said it was refreshing from the usual tans and grays most people pick:) Darwin N. Barrie P19 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI > Decided to cheat and ordered a custom interior from Abby at Flightline > Interiors for my 7a. Having a golf club compartment and lower baggage > access panels complicated that area immensely. Also wanted something a > little different on the seats. All the stuff came today, some 30 separate > pieces and I am totally amazed at the workman(woman)ship and detail. Won't > have it installed for a while but simply had to put in a plug for Abby after > having the finished product in my hand! > > Now that she is not working on mine, I would highly recommend her operation! > You will not be disappointed. > > > Thanks Bill S > 7a Ark fuse/panel > > > Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's > 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/1yWplB/TM > > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing > www.vansaircraft.net > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:10 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" Since those devices restrict flow but don't drop the pressure, my theory is that the first hit from the rivet gun is at whatever the line pressure is and then the restricted flow keeps the pressure from building up on subsequent hits. As soon as you stop riveting, the line pressure will build up again ready for the next smile. I'd say throw those devices away and get a pressure regulator or better yet a combination regulator/oiler/water trap. You need to oil your tool from time to time. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ > --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" I don't have a pressure gage on the gun but one of > those little regulators with a numbered knob you can adjust. Setting has > stayed the same for wings and ailerons. By the time I reduced the > "regulator" on the gun back to where it had been the damage had been done > and I was too frustrated to be able to think straight anyway. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:22 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Those of us that have jobs and have to work are not able to make two trips to New Mexico in the same month. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,666 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:32 PM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: New pitot/ static offerings --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Save some cash and get a used one from the boneyard. I saved about 75%. Works just fine Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 190 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Subject: Re: RV-List: New pitot/ static offerings > --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Those really ARE beautiful. Now if you only offered a Heated > version...... I've been waiting for the Gretz GA-1000, but > unfortunately it's getting closer to the time I'm just going to > have to buy what's currently available. > > -- > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" >> >> >> A few months ago there was a thread about the poor choices available >> for pitot tubes and static port kits. We have just received our first >> batch of CNC machined pitot tubes and they look beautiful! Please >> have a look http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm >> The pitot kit comes complete with the mast and all of the hardware >> you need for a super clean installation. I believe this is the only >> kit available right now as a complete package....most others require >> you to go searching for the components from different sources. You >> will find a significant cost savings with the kit as well as really >> nice hardware. We are currently prototyping a heated version, but it >> is still a bit down the road. Cheers, Evan Johnson >> www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:27 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flightline Interiors - Comments FYI --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" I will second this endorsement. I recently received my RV9A interior and was amazed by the number of pieces included. She provides precut pieces for just about every exposed surface in the cockpit area - including under the panel and the sidewalls under the instrument area. She covered Oregon Aero seats for my installation and they look great! The quality is top notch! She also provides pictorial directions for where each and every piece goes and in what order to install them. As Bill says, now that she is finished with mine I would highly recommend her work. Dick Tasker Bill Schlatterer wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" > >Decided to cheat and ordered a custom interior from Abby at Flightline >Interiors for my 7a. Having a golf club compartment and lower baggage >access panels complicated that area immensely. Also wanted something a >little different on the seats. All the stuff came today, some 30 separate >pieces and I am totally amazed at the workman(woman)ship and detail. Won't >have it installed for a while but simply had to put in a plug for Abby after >having the finished product in my hand! > >Now that she is not working on mine, I would highly recommend her operation! >You will not be disappointed. > > >Thanks Bill S >7a Ark fuse/panel > > > > -- ---- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. ---- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:58 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: RV-List: Just trashing my first flap!! --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" I agree. I started with one and almost immediately removed it and used a real regulator. Much better control. Dick Tasker Albert Gardner wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" > >Since those devices restrict flow but don't drop the pressure, my theory is >that the first hit from the rivet gun is at whatever the line pressure is >and then the restricted flow keeps the pressure from building up on >subsequent hits. As soon as you stop riveting, the line pressure will build >up again ready for the next smile. I'd say throw those devices away and get >a pressure regulator or better yet a combination regulator/oiler/water >trap. You need to oil your tool from time to time. >Albert Gardner >RV-9A 872RV >Yuma, AZ > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" >> >> >I don't have a pressure gage on the gun but one of > > >>those little regulators with a numbered knob you can adjust. Setting has >>stayed the same for wings and ailerons. By the time I reduced the >>"regulator" on the gun back to where it had been the damage had been done >>and I was too frustrated to be able to think straight anyway. >> >> > > > > -- ---- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. ---- ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:29 PM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: Re: RV-List: Noisy Airplanes and Altitude --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen Something about diminishing by the square of the distance... Finn Chris W wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> > >I was just curious how high you would have to be for the sound level on >the ground to be low enough that it probably wouldn't be hard in >someones house. Maybe there is a formula of x DB drop per 1000 feet of >altitude. Does anyone know? > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:31 PM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" Dear Ron, How well are you acquainted with the Albuquerque & Santa Fe areas and their respective airport activities? Just curious. Konrad / ABQ, NM do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee Albuquerque ; NM?@roxy.matronics.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Is there interest in an Oct fly-in to Albuquerque, NM? --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Albuquerque, NM? > Are u suggesting a change of dates for LOE to coincide with the > balloon activities? >Regards, >Doug Absolutely not. This has nada to do with LOE. This is a possible new fly-in opportunity that offers different things to see and do than LOE Ron ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:00 PM PST US From: Mark Schrimmer Subject: RV-List: Mufflers for RVs (Was Re: Noisy Airplanes) --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer Has anybody used the exhaust system from Aircraft Exhaust Technologies http://www.aircraftexhaust.net? According to their web site, they have a stainless steel crossover system that includes two mufflers that are small enough to fit inside the cowl of an RV-6, RV-6A, RV-7, RV-7A, RV-8, RV-8A, RV-9, or RV-9A. Besides reducing sound, they are supposed to increase cabin heat, too. Mark