Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:25 AM - RV-6 Emp Kit for Sale (Bradley Kidder)
2. 10:25 AM - Re: AOA indicator? (Paul Folbrecht)
3. 10:25 AM - Odyssey battery hold-down in an RV-8 (czechsix@juno.com)
4. 12:30 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (sportav8r@aol.com)
5. 06:52 PM - Rotary engine Seminar May 27-29 (Charlie England)
6. 10:45 PM - Oil Canning On Aft Fuse (Jamie Painter)
7. 10:48 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Charles Rowbotham)
8. 10:52 PM - Re: Odyssey battery hold-down in an RV-8 (Douglas P. Gardner)
9. 10:53 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (linn walters)
10. 11:03 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Ron Brown)
11. 11:17 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Paul Folbrecht)
12. 11:28 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Larry Bowen)
13. 11:31 PM - endorsement (Wheeler North)
14. 11:33 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Mickey Coggins)
15. 11:37 PM - Glare shield covering (Steve Struyk)
16. 11:39 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (Sam Buchanan)
17. 11:39 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 11:39 PM - Re: AOA indicator? (RobHickman@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV-6 Emp Kit for Sale |
Z-USANET-MsgId: XID043JeXNN20333X36
--> RV-List message posted by: Bradley Kidder <sparksnmagic@usa.net>
RV-6 Empenage Kit for sale. Some riveting done, perhaps 20% complete.
$950.00
All parts, no damage.
479-474-8777
><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
Brad Kidder .=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One"
AOPA (ASN/KSLG) - EAA - Angel Flight
.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>
. , . .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Here's a bit of devil-advocating on this issue. Seems to me that ppl that die
in a stall/spin stalled because *they weren't paying attention*. They weren't
expecting a stall and weren't paying attention to ANY of the tools they had.
If they had an AOA indicator, it's quite likely they wouldn't have been paying
attention to that, either.
That said, I do think I'll get one, or at least I'll look for a deal on one
when I'm building.
do not archive
--- Barry Chapman <bcrnfnps@swoi.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Barry Chapman" <bcrnfnps@swoi.net>
>
> Linn,
>
> Why not have one? I am new to this sort of thing and would like to hear
> what rationale you may have for this decision. TIA
>
> Barry Chapman
> Student
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>
>
> > I, for one, won't have a stall warning horn nor an AOA indicator. Just
> > my viewpoint. IMHO, and YMMV.
> > Linn
> > do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Odyssey battery hold-down in an RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
Guys,
I just got my Odyssey PC680 battery and am trying to figure out how to strap it
down to the battery tray on the firewall of my -8A. Vans plans show to use a
U-shaped extrusion across the top of the battery with two long bolts that go
through each end of the extrusion and down through the sides of the battery tray.
Looks like it would work fine for a bigger Concorde battery but the tall/skinny
PC680 is a different story. I can sorta fit the extruded bar across the
aft part of the battery with enough clearance to stay away from the terminals,
but I'm wondering if I also need to secure the battery in some way to keep
it from tipping or sliding forward.
What have others done? Any pics out there?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring almost done...!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Larry, you shoulda' spent your avionics budget on an auto-landing device. We have
you on video ;-)
-Stormy
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: AOA indicator?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I reference mine all the time. No regrets getting it. You can't take it
with you, so spend it on avionics.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8, AOA Sport.
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
> <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I'm wondering if an AOA indicator is something I'm really
> going to want
> >or
> not.
> > My thoughts are that $800 is a bit of a large chunk of
> change for this
> >functionality. I have not ever felt a problem flying by ASI
> and feel -
> never
> >relied on a spam-can stall-horn to keep me out of trouble anyway.
> >
> >Are there people that think it would be foolish to equip an aircraft
> >with
> no
> >stall-warning system at all save my own senses?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rotary engine Seminar May 27-29 |
1.30 UNDISC_RECIPS Valid-looking To "undisclosed-recipients"
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
For those interested in rotary engine power for aircraft, there will be
a rotary event here at Slobovia Outernational (MS71) just north of
Jackson MS beginning Friday afternoon, May 27. If you are driving to
Jackson a brochure & map of how to get here can be found on Tracy
Crook's web site at http://www.rotaryaviation.com/new_page_3.htm.
Flying info can be found at http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71.
'Scheduled to Appear,' either with presentations or to be available for
Q&A are several folks who are already flying or manufacture & sell
accessories for rotary conversions:
Ed Anderson
Tracy Crook
Bill Eslick
Bernie Kerr
Ed Klepeis
We've got plenty of space in the house and a couple of our neighbors
have offered hangar apartments for additional lodging. Just throw a
bedroll & towel (& tent if you if you prefer) in the car/plane & we will
find a place for you to sleep.
Spouses are welcome; it's looking like they may have more fun than us
rotorheads. Possible activities include antiquing/sightseeing in a
historic town near Slobovia.
If you are thinking about coming, drop me a line at
ceengland@bellsouth.net or call at 601-879-9596 so we can be sure no one
goes hungry. :-)
Tupper's having the time of her life getting the house & meals prepped,
& I've got a clean hangar for the 1st time in almost a decade. Ya'll Come!
Charlie & Tupper
Message 6
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| Subject: | Oil Canning On Aft Fuse |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Listers:
I got my wife out in the garage tonight and we started banging rivets
on the aft fuse. Before I drilled the fuse I checked to make sure it
was straight. I also checked again after I clecoed it back together.
It seems like everything is straight...but I have some major oil
canning going on between the 707 and 708 bulkheads, and also between
the 708 and 710. Has anyone else seen this?
I've searched the archives and it seems that other people have had oil
canning on the bottom skins, so I'm not too surprised it's happening.
It just seems that in my case the oil canning is quite severe. I've
made a video to demonstrate. You can download it here:
http://rv.jpainter.org/oil_canning.mpg
What would you all recommend? Should I just continue riveting then
deal w/ the oil canning later by possibly adding more j-channels, or
should I stop now and take corrective action?
Any thoughts appreciated.
- Jamie
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Paul,
We installed Advanced Flight Systems (Formally Jim Frantz's) AOA Pro in our
RV-8A, almost 4 years ago. It is mounted in a small mounting bracket on top
of the glare shield in the pilot's left peripheral vision area and the audio
is hard wired to the pilot's headset jack.
While the AOA was a good size investment at approximately $1500, I consider
it my number one priority purchase. The priority is/was based on safety.
When one considers that stall speed is a factor of AOA, gross weight, angle
of bank and the fact that airspeed indicators lag actual airspeed it was an
easy decision. The fact that the Navy cut fleet fatalities approximately in
half, following their transition to AOA gave added credence to the decision.
While some will disagree, I doubt few have the instrumentation, to determine
what their aircraft's exact stall speed is at any point in time and have to
rely on an approximation. Which to many of us means faster approaches, etc.
The other factor is emergencies. I have had one and it sure was reassuring
to have the AOA. It alerted me in plenty of time, that I was getting close
to stalling. I know you are always suppose to fly the airplane but until you
have been there it's hard to imagine how easy it is to get distracted with
finding the nearest airport/landing site, troubleshooting your problem,
setting for and making your landing.
IMHO the AOA system is a very wise purchase and significantly improves your
safety.
Good building and safe flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (300+ hours)
>From: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
>
>I'm wondering if an AOA indicator is something I'm really going to want or
>not.
> My thoughts are that $800 is a bit of a large chunk of change for this
>functionality. I have not ever felt a problem flying by ASI and feel -
>never
>relied on a spam-can stall-horn to keep me out of trouble anyway.
>
>Are there people that think it would be foolish to equip an aircraft with
>no
>stall-warning system at all save my own senses?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey battery hold-down in an RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas P. Gardner" <seabearfl@netzero.com>
Mark,
I used a 1/4 X 8 X 1.5 bar stock w/ .063 angles (Qty 2) about 1" long that sits
on top of the battery. The angles keep the battery secure from sliding, and then
I used Van's long bolts drilled thru the bar stock down to the battery tray.
Cheap and easy to do.
Douglas P. Gardner
-8A In Painting
Palm Harbor, Florida 34683
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Barry Chapman wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Barry Chapman" <bcrnfnps@swoi.net>
>
>Linn,
>
>Why not have one? I am new to this sort of thing and would like to hear
>what rationale you may have for this decision. TIA
>
>Barry Chapman
>Student
>
I guess I feel that I've got enough time in enough airplanes to know
approximately where in the flight envelope a plane is. I don't need
flashing lights or a horn to let me know that an airplane is getting
near stall. The feel of the airplane and the wind noise will tell you a
lot. I'm nothing special as a pilot and don't have any abilities that
others don't have. You're a student, and learning to fly ....... most
likely in a certified airplane with a stall horn. The only time the
stall horn goes off when I'm flying is when I'm making a full-stall
landing ...... but the noise isn't what I'm waiting for ..... it's the
feel of the airplane as the airspeed bleeds off and then the flight is
over. I can do the same thing with or without the horn. My Pitts
doesn't have a horn nor an AOA ..... and yes, I've dropped it in a few
times ..... but by the time the horn goes off ..... you're not going to
change a whole lot about what you're doing.
So, in a training environment ...... yes, it's nice to hold altitude
with the horn blaring ..... you're learning what the airplane feels and
sounds like ..... it's a 'tool' ..... but it won't save your butt (OK,
IMHO) because by the time the horn goes off, you've already lost the
energy you need and the momentum ..... so it's mostly too late. And I
ask the question ..... why were you flying on the edge anyway? That's
not smart. An AOA will, if calibrated properly allow you to fly on that
thin edge between bird and rock ..... and you have to ask yourself ....
am I good enough to control my angle of attack so fine that I can milk
the last bit of climb out of this airplane???
So, I'd rather put my money into a good GPS that will get me safely
somewhere ..... or apply it to an instrument rating ..... or something
that will make my flight safer. I don't look at flying on the edge as a
safe thing to do, but if you do, then maybe an AOA or stall horn will be
part of your investment in your plane.
BTW, the AOA will also let you fly on the edge in a descent as well as a
climb ....... but, again, why would you do that???
Linn ..... hope you aren't sorry you asked :-)
do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>
>
>
>
>>I, for one, won't have a stall warning horn nor an AOA indicator. Just
>>my viewpoint. IMHO, and YMMV.
>>Linn
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
If you have got to spend $800, I would highly recommend the RMI uEncoder kit.
It has a stall horn included - along with:
Altimeter
Airspeed (IAS & TAS)
Vertical Speed
Density Altitude
Encoder output for your Transponder
Outside Air Temp
RS-232 output for data recording the above.
And what I have found VERY useful for cross country trips is an Altitude Alerter.
And for instrument approaches it also does Decision Height Alarming.
http://www.rkymtn.com/EncFeatures.htm
(Whoops, the kit is up to $879 and Assembled is $1179, but still an outstanding
investment!!!
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
--- Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
> You can't take it with you, so spend it on avionics.
Now there's a bumper sticker.
do not archive
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Ha. That was nothing!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sportav8r@aol.com [mailto:sportav8r@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:30 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Larry, you shoulda' spent your avionics budget on an
> auto-landing device. We have you on video ;-)
>
> -Stormy
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Bowen <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I reference mine all the time. No regrets getting it. You
> can't take it with you, so spend it on avionics.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8, AOA Sport.
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> Do not archive
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht
> > <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >I'm wondering if an AOA indicator is something I'm really
> > going to want
> > >or
> > not.
> > > My thoughts are that $800 is a bit of a large chunk of
> > change for this
> > >functionality. I have not ever felt a problem flying by ASI
> > and feel -
> > never
> > >relied on a spam-can stall-horn to keep me out of trouble anyway.
> > >
> > >Are there people that think it would be foolish to equip
> an aircraft
> > >with
> > no
> > >stall-warning system at all save my own senses?
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
You are grandfathered. You do not need a "new" endorsement. This new rule
is only about category and class ratings.
Mike Robertson
Damm, I'm grandfathered and I don't even have any kids yet.
Does this mean I have to put them through college after babysitting them for
18 years?
;{)
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ...
> I've looked critically at your AOA, and I'm impressed with it's
> abilities. I'm just not sure that it's a necessary item for me.
> ...
I've got one, not flying yet. I've flown with them, and I think
they are pretty cool. What impresses me the most is that of all
the pilots that I know that fly with one, they are happy they
have it, and would recommend one. I'm sure there are some out
there, but I've never met anyone that has flown with an AOA and
then said it was not worth the money or time to install.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
Message 15
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| Subject: | Glare shield covering |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
List,
I'm looking for a good fabric/material to cover the top of the glare shield. It
must be non-glare, easy to clean, and durable. Vinyl is way too shiny and I'd
rather not use paint. Any ideas out there?
Thanks in advance.
Steve Struyk
St. Charles, MO
RV-8, Finish
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Barry Chapman wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Barry Chapman" <bcrnfnps@swoi.net>
>
> Linn,
>
> Why not have one? I am new to this sort of thing and would like to hear
> what rationale you may have for this decision. TIA
I have no interest in resurrecting the old debate about which AOA system
is "best", but for new listers who may be researching angle of attack
systems, here is an article about my installation of the Lift Reserve
Indicator:
http://thervjournal.com/liftreserve.htm
After flying the LRI for several years, I consider it a valuable part of
the panel. Some pilots might mark it down because of the lack of aural
warning, but I have found it to be very adequate since it is now the
primary part of my instrument scan during take-off and landing.
Hundreds of RVs are flown safely without AOA indicators, but I think
once a pilot is accustomed to one, they will find it to be a valuable
confidence booster, especially when wringing out maximum take-off and
landing performance.
Sam Buchanan
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
May be true, but it's hard to ignore a bitching betty saying "Angle, Angle, Push".
I know it would get my attention.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Folbrecht
Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA indicator?
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Here's a bit of devil-advocating on this issue. Seems to me that ppl that die
in a stall/spin stalled because *they weren't paying attention*. They weren't
expecting a stall and weren't paying attention to ANY of the tools they had.
If they had an AOA indicator, it's quite likely they wouldn't have been paying
attention to that, either.
That said, I do think I'll get one, or at least I'll look for a deal on one when
I'm building.
do not archive
--- Barry Chapman <bcrnfnps@swoi.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Barry Chapman" <bcrnfnps@swoi.net>
>
> Linn,
>
> Why not have one? I am new to this sort of thing and would like to
> hear what rationale you may have for this decision. TIA
>
> Barry Chapman
> Student
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AOA indicator?
>
>
> > I, for one, won't have a stall warning horn nor an AOA indicator.
> > Just my viewpoint. IMHO, and YMMV.
> > Linn
> > do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com
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ZWQgYmVjYXVzZSAqdGhleSB3ZXJlbid0IHBheWluZyAgYXR0ZW50aW9uKi4gIFRoZXkgCndl
cmVuJ3QKZXhwZWN0aW5nIGEgc3RhbGwgYW5kIHdlcmVuJ3QgcGF5aW5nICBhdHRlbnRpb24g
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