---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/03/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:26 AM - Re: Advance Angle of Attack (Old PSS System) (Charles Rowbotham) 2. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: What's a "VOR" ???(Homebuilts must have Ground based NAV equip) NOT (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 3. 06:31 AM - GMA340 Installation manual (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: GMA340 Installation manual (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 5. 07:11 AM - Anyone in Marengo IL (Jeff Dowling) 6. 08:01 AM - Re: CHT's....... how high is high? (Vision micro) 7. 09:23 AM - Filler durability (DAVID REEL) 8. 09:42 AM - Re: Advance Angle of Attack (Old PSS System) (RobHickman@aol.com) 9. 11:13 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Matthew Brandes) 10. 11:29 AM - Re: High CHT's caused by excess flashing on cylinders (LarryRobertHelming) 11. 11:37 AM - Dynon AOA (Doug Rozendaal) 12. 12:49 PM - Re: Question Re: Tru Trak (rv6n6r@comcast.net) 13. 01:11 PM - Re: Dynon AOA (RobHickman@aol.com) 14. 02:47 PM - Re: Filler durability (Mike Robertson) 15. 04:11 PM - Re: Filler durability (Walter Tondu) 16. 04:19 PM - Dynon EFIS-D10 update 6/03/05 () 17. 04:28 PM - Re: CHT's....... how high is high? (Michael Hilger) 18. 05:16 PM - Re: Filler durability (Chris Good) 19. 06:08 PM - Re:CHT's....... how high is high? (Rick Galati) 20. 06:33 PM - Re: Dynon AOA (Chris W) 21. 06:50 PM - Re: Re:CHT's....... how high is high? (Alex Peterson) 22. 07:19 PM - Re: Filler durability (Bob C.) 23. 08:28 PM - Re: CHT's....... how high is high? (jacklockamy) 24. 09:43 PM - Re: Dynon AOA (Doug Rozendaal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:19 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: Advance Angle of Attack (Old PSS System) --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Mickey, You may want to call Rob Hickman, manufacturer, for his confirmation. He has been been reachable. Chuck >From: Mickey Coggins >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv8-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Advance Angle of Attack (Old PSS System) >Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:59:24 +0200 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >Hi Ed, > >I think your 6" from the wing skin break is correct. > >Here is a link to the location information from their >website: > >http://advanced-control-systems.com/AOAsupport/aoasupport.htm > >RV-4, RV-6, RV-7,RV-8 > >6" forward of the wing skin break at the spar >about 12" aft of the leading edge > > >The #60 hole is only to let air pressure in or out, so >it should not matter if it is not perfectly centered. > >Hope that helps, >Mickey > > >Ed OConnor wrote: > > --> RV8-List message posted by: Ed OConnor > > > > For those of you who have already installed the PSS system on your > > RV-8, the manual states to install the wing ports 12 inches from the > > leading edge, which is 6 inches from the trailing edge of the wing skin > > break line. The instructions say to maintain the same % cord for top > > and bottom. Anybody, whose system is working, how far from the aft > > skin edge of the skin is the lower port. Is it also 6 inches? Not > > sure this is the same cord % as measured that way. I think measuring > > from the aft edge of the skin line is easier then figuring from a line > > from the leading edge. But maybe its not that critical. Also, how > > critical is the #60 drill being centered on the piece mounted on the > > inner wing skin? > > I read the archives and understand it is a straight line from the > > leading edge if you use that method of locating the port. Just looking > > for an easier method then finding 12 inches from the leading edge > > since that will require finding a 90 degree line from the cord at the > > leading edge. > > RV-8 N366RV. Panama City FL > > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 Wiring > > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: What's a "VOR" ???(Homebuilts must have Ground based NAV equip) NOT From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Actually, WAAS is computed on the ground from reference stations but the correction signal is transmitted from two satellites in geosync orbit. Either way I don't agree with the interpretation that it has to be ground based and I'm willing to bet the feds would be hard pressed to actually bust someone for it. Now using a non-TSO'd GPS for area or approach nav as a primary source you would probably get busted, experimental or not. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Nafsinger Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: What's a "VOR" ???(Homebuilts must have Ground based NAV equip) NOT --> RV-List message posted by: "Nick Nafsinger" Coming in a little late here, BUT.... The GNS480 is a WAAS Certified GPS, and WAAS signals come from the GROUND. How does that play into the whole scheme of things? Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: What's a "VOR" ???(Homebuilts must have Ground based NAV equip) NOT --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Since y'all want to get so literal, then read it carefully. It says: > 91.205(d)(2)- navigational equipment appropriate to the ground > (GROUND) facilities <>. (emphasis mine) If you aren't using any facilities, then NOT having any nav equipment is perfectly appropriate. I don't have a dog in this fight since I've got an approach certified GPS and Nav/Com... Just stirring the pot. Greg > > Whether the GPS is IFR (TSOed) or not has nothing to do with it. If > you read the operating limitations for an experimental it MUST meet > Part 91.205 to fly IFR, including 91.205(d)(2), which states what KIND > of NAV equipment we must have. There is no mention of GPS or away > around this, unless you have your limitation modified or waived for > your installation. > > > 91.205(d)(2)- navigational equipment appropriate to the ground > (GROUND) facilities to be used. The point is experimental aircraft are > not certified but specifically have an operating limitation to meet > 91.205 (d)(2) limitation. > There is no way around this, unless you get a waiver issued to amend > or delete part of the 91.205 requirement. > -- -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:31 AM PST US From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Subject: RV-List: GMA340 Installation manual --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Does anybody have an electronic copy of the GMA340 Audio Panel installation manual? I've looked on the Garmin site, but can only find the Pilots users guide...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: GMA340 Installation manual From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR Subject: RV-List: GMA340 Installation manual --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Does anybody have an electronic copy of the GMA340 Audio Panel installation manual? I've looked on the Garmin site, but can only find the Pilots users guide...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:53 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: RV-List: Anyone in Marengo IL --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Do not archive Does anyone on the list live in or near Marengo. Im heading up there for a fund raiser tomorrow morning. I looked at AirNav and found 8 airports. I'll be leaving early afternoon. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 200 hours Chicago/Louisville ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:17 AM PST US From: "Vision micro" Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: "Vision micro" Hello Rick, I wouldn't discount the readings that the VM1000 is giving you. I have seen a couple FACTORTY NEW engines running hotter due to a carb jetting issue. The first thing I would do is check your carb and see if it is a 10-3878. If it is, its my understanding there is a kit for the carb. I also have this Bulletin A11-62 number written down as a reference. Best Regards David McCluskey support@visionmicrosystems.com From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati Phase One flight testing is underway. My factory new O-320-D1A equipped RV-6A now has 11 hours on the Hobbs, "Darla" flies very, very well but I am a little concerned about percieved high CHT numbers. The VM-1000 engine monitor consistently indicates CHT's at the higher end of the range. Cylinder #3 runs the hottest and on one occasion the temperature reached 482 degrees generating an audio alert. What baffles me is that the oil temperature has yet to surpass 170 degrees. Todays flight indicated an OAT of 64 degrees at 4500' yet #3 cylinder was running at 434 degrees at cruise with the oil temperature at 160 degrees. I have not leaned the mixture on any flights yet and I'm told this should reduce CHT's somewhat. My Lycoming operating manual indicates 500 degrees as the max acceptable cylinder head temperature. Of course, I am running mineral oil for the first 25 hours.....can this partly account for the temperatures I am getting? Is it possible the VM-1000 is reporting bogus numbers? Is this post much ado about nothing? Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:25 AM PST US From: "DAVID REEL" Subject: RV-List: Filler durability --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" I'd like to hear from anyone with experience of the durability of filler on aluminum. The Imron paint my painter wants to use won't cover the small gap between rivet head and dimpled skin reliably so we intend to fill the rivets before painting. The plane will be yellow and stored outside so I'm anticipating a pretty severe shrink/expand movement in the aluminum. The documents I've seen don't address the coefficient of expansion of the filler relative to aluminum or the strength of the bond so I'm hoping your experiences, good and bad, can shed some light to help us pick a good filler that won't crack around the rivets. We're considering All-Metal, Superfil, Aeropoxy light, Everglass, Feather Fill, Sterling Primer/filler, and Dynalite. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:20 AM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Advance Angle of Attack (Old PSS System) --> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com Ed, 1. Port location is not that critical. 6" forward of the wing skin break at the spar about 12" aft of the leading edge this should be for the top and the bottom. If you put a tape measure from the leading edge to the Aileron tip double check that the ports are approx 12" from the leading edge. 2. The #60 hole needs to go into the opening of the plastic port. As long as it is +/- 1/8" it should be fine. If you need any more help give me a call, I am almost always reachable. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems Work (503) 598-7727 Cell (503) 701-5042 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:47 AM PST US From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: RE: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" See my entry on this subject. I left the flange but trimmed the bottom. http://www.n523rv.com/fuselage/2004/02/lots-of-center-section-work.html Matthew Brandes, Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) #90569 http://www.n523rv.com EAA Chapter 1329 President EAA Chapter 868 Web Editor ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:57 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: High CHT's caused by excess flashing on cylinders --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I experienced high CHT on one cylinder (#3) and attributed it to my plenum rather than using Van's baffle/baffle seal method. After I got into removing the plenum and looking things over closely (new TMX-O360 engine) I found the closed casting problem described in the article on only #3. I removed what I could easily (used a drill bit and small file) and changed my cooling to the Vans method. I no longer have a cooling problem on that cylinder. Incidentally, the cooling for the remaining cylinders all improved a bit with the baffle seals. I apparently obstructed the air flow coming into the top of the plenum which caused the higher temps in general. But the excess flash was a problem I had not suspected to look for on a new engine. That cylinder was originally 50 degrees higher than the others. I also put in a air dam in front of #1 to move more air to #3. All cyls are happy now... Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's own money." Alexis de Toqueville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: High CHT's caused by excess flashing on cylinders > --> RV-List message posted by: Matthew Brandes > > I'd > be curious to find out how many people have excess flash on their cylinder > heads and if they removed it, what difference it made. > > http://www.eaa1000.av.org/newsletr/0408nltr.pdf > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:51 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: RV-List: Dynon AOA --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" I have a Dynon D-10 and routinely fly IFR. I would love to have AOA info mostly for gee whiz, but I also recognize the value of that information. Even if Dynon had their heated pitot, I will be slow to give up a my "real" heated pitot tube because the dynon is a pitot static instrument for pitch and roll as well as alt/AS info. So here is my question. Has anyone experimented with using the standard pitot tube pressure and comparing that to a leading edge hole on the top of the wing like the AFS system???? My guess is that it would work, but I really don't want to drill a bunch of holes in the wing to find out. I could care that it is not heated and would freeze over. Flying IFR I never plan to be anywhere near the range of the AOA instrument. This would be used only for dogfighting and short field landings. Anyone have any ideas if that would work? If someone had a Dynon and a AFS system, they could hook the top of the wing port to the Dynon AOA port and check it out. Thanks and Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:42 PM PST US From: rv6n6r@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: RE: Question re: Tru Trak 1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO --> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net Okay my curiosity is piqued. I installed mine in the wing per the instructions at that time. Also a while back there was discussion regarding the Navaid and the possibility of the cockpit location contributing some pitch deviation due to the geometry of the pushrods, etc. Is that not an issue? Why/why not? BTW mine was a retrofit installation in my right RV-6 wing (!!!!) I was only able to manage it with the help of my flex-angle drill and the fact that I'd made the access hole about 3" larger than spec when I built it (yes I was thinking ahead). Even so, it was a bi+@h! Randall Henderson RV-6 --- John, Do not install anything at this time. The installation is done in the fuselage of the RV-6. When you get to the fuselage, I would recommend that you at least run the wiring to the servo. If you would like to talk about your options, please give me a call. I am pretty much always here. Andrew Barker General Manager TruTrak Flight Systems PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222 Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak www.trutrakap.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:45 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon AOA --> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com 'Has anyone experimented with using the standard pitot tube pressure and comparing that to a leading edge hole on the top of the wing like the AFS system???? My guess is that it would work, but I really don't want to drill a bunch of holes in the wing to find out." My guess is that it would not work. The Dynon AOA port reads the pressure difference between the AOA port and the static pressure, this should be a positive value. If you connect it to the top wing port you are going to get a negative pressure differential. If it was to work it would also violate the Patents on the AFS AOA System. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:14 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Filler durability --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" If you make sure you sure epoxy based filler then it should hold up fine. Do NOT use regular bondo polyester-based fillers. They will not hold up. MIke Robertson >From: "DAVID REEL" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: "rvlist" >Subject: RV-List: Filler durability >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:23:22 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" > >I'd like to hear from anyone with experience of the durability of filler on >aluminum. The Imron paint my painter wants to use won't cover the small >gap between rivet head and dimpled skin reliably so we intend to fill the >rivets before painting. The plane will be yellow and stored outside so I'm >anticipating a pretty severe shrink/expand movement in the aluminum. The >documents I've seen don't address the coefficient of expansion of the >filler relative to aluminum or the strength of the bond so I'm hoping your >experiences, good and bad, can shed some light to help us pick a good >filler that won't crack around the rivets. > >We're considering All-Metal, Superfil, Aeropoxy light, Everglass, Feather >Fill, Sterling Primer/filler, and Dynalite. > >Dave Reel - RV8A > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:14 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: Filler durability --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 06/03 12:23, DAVID REEL wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" > > I'd like to hear from anyone with experience of the durability of filler on aluminum. The Imron paint my painter wants to use won't cover the small gap between rivet head and dimpled skin reliably so we intend to fill the rivets before painting. The plane will be yellow and stored outside so I'm anticipating a pretty severe shrink/expand movement in the aluminum. The documents I've seen don't address the coefficient of expansion of the filler relative to aluminum or the strength of the bond so I'm hoping your experiences, good and bad, can shed some light to help us pick a good filler that won't crack around the rivets. > > We're considering All-Metal, Superfil, Aeropoxy light, Everglass, Feather Fill, Sterling Primer/filler, and Dynalite. What about Hysol? I've heard good things about it but have no personal experience with it. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:57 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 update 6/03/05 --> RV-List message posted by: DYNON EFIS-D10 update now on Dynon web site Improved: The serial data output now supports an EFIS display on our EMS-D10 engine monitor. See the "Serial Data Output" section of our updated user manual here. Improved: The G-Meter maximum and minimum values are now updated when not displayed. Fixed: A problem causing bugs to be turned off ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:11 PM PST US From: "Michael Hilger" Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: "Michael Hilger" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vision micro" Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: "Vision micro" Hello Rick, I wouldn't discount the readings that the VM1000 is giving you. I have seen a couple FACTORTY NEW engines running hotter due to a carb jetting issue. The first thing I would do is check your carb and see if it is a 10-3878. If it is, its my understanding there is a kit for the carb. I also have this Bulletin A11-62 number written down as a reference. Best Regards David McCluskey support@visionmicrosystems.com Rick, When I first flew my RV-6 (O-360-A1A, Sensenich, carbureted), the CHT's were very high, and the EGT's peaked as soon as the mixture was pulled back at all. My engine was overhauled and the carb was new, the same part number as the original, and as specified on the TC for the engine (I forget what that was). When I mentioned it to the accessories guy at our local engine shop, he said to put a service kit in it to move the fuel schedule one step richer. I had that done and that fixed the problem. I was told this mod was meant for carbureted Mooneys, some of which had the same problem. I'm sorry but I don't know the kit number. The shop was Bolduc Specialized Aviation Services in Minnesota. Mike Hilger RV-6, N207AM, 700 hours Inver Grove Hgts, MN ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:33 PM PST US From: "Chris Good" Subject: Re: RV-List: Filler durability --> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Good" Filling all the rivets seems a bit extreme. My painter didn't have any problem using Imron. Five years & 900 flying hours later the paint is in excellent condition. Has anyone actually seen a problem with Imron adhesion around the rivet heads? Regards, Chris Good, West Bend, WI RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Tondu" Subject: Re: RV-List: Filler durability > > --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu > > On 06/03 12:23, DAVID REEL wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone with experience of the durability > of filler on aluminum. The Imron paint my painter wants to use > won't cover the small gap between rivet head and dimpled skin > reliably so we intend to fill the rivets before painting. The > plane will be yellow and stored outside so I'm anticipating a > pretty severe shrink/expand movement in the aluminum. The > documents I've seen don't address the coefficient of expansion of > the filler relative to aluminum or the strength of the bond so I'm > hoping your experiences, good and bad, can shed some light to help > us pick a good filler that won't crack around the rivets. > > > > We're considering All-Metal, Superfil, Aeropoxy light, > Everglass, Feather Fill, Sterling Primer/filler, and Dynalite. > > What about Hysol? I've heard good things about it but have no > personal experience with it. > > -- > Walter Tondu > http://www.rv7-a.com -- NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:02 PM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: Re:CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati Many, many thanks to all who responded. I took all the valuable suggestions seriously and armed with a fresh perspective redoubled my efforts at improving overall baffling efficiency. The only place where I could have done better originally was around the forward baffle area. With added bits of aluminum here and there, I RTV'ed the forward baffle to the engine case where it previously had an approximately 1/4" clearance gap all around it. Also, the constant speed oil return line (unused with my fixed pitch prop) required a large (3/4"?) hole in the baffle floor to allow its fluid fitting nut to pass through the floor during the initial baffle installation. Some people simply remove this line if using a fixed pitch prop but I left it in place. I used rubber baffle material and RTV to seal off the hole around the oil line as it passes through the floor. RTV was applied to every gap and pin hole I could detect. I observed no flash on any of the cylinders. Finally, I install ed a full size plate on the back side of the oil cooler in an attempt to raise the oil temperature. When I took off this morning the temperature was 84 degrees at the surface. I maintained a climb speed of about 120 MPH. It was with some chagrin that I watched the CHT's rise. #3 was (as usual) the hottest cylinder and attained a max temperature of 434 degrees before I leveled out. I hate to think what the temps would have been in a 100 MPH climb. After a time in stabilized level flight, the CHT's finally settled in at 377, 404, 418, 404. The oil temperature throughout the 1.5 hour flight up to an altitude of 5500' and 65 degrees OAT, settled into a range of 179-184, and on one occasion peaked at 191degrees. Before the next flight, I am going to install a dam on #1 as Stein suggested. Since #1 was by far the coolest running at 377 degrees, I think it can give up a bit of air to help out hothead #3 behind it. I'm told builders of other designs have been known to bond a cu rved piece of fiberglass or attach aluminum to the inside of the upper cowl aimed at directing air straight down onto #3. Has anyone done that with an RV? Again, thanks for all the advice. The forum is an invaluable resource. Now I have several areas to examine and work with if need be. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:41 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon AOA --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> RobHickman@aol.com wrote: >. . .it would also violate the >Patents on the AFS AOA System. > > Patents don't prevent me from building a patented design and using it for myself, it just prevents me from building it and selling it. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think so. do not archive -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:37 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re:CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati > > Many, many thanks to all who responded. I took all the valuable > suggestions seriously and armed with a fresh perspective redoubled my > efforts at improving overall baffling efficiency. The only place where I > could have done better originally was around the forward baffle area. With > added bits of aluminum here and there, I RTV'ed the forward baffle to the > engine case where it previously had an approximately 1/4" clearance gap Rick, you may well be onto the right track, but please do investigate fuel flow rates. It is a little hard to believe how much that affects CHT's on these planes. I can run the mixture at near peak EGT and see CHT's stabilize around 400, while 10 minutes later, after running the mixture to lean of peak, see 330. If you have a 160 hp, you should see something around 13 to 14 gph at near sea level, full throttle, full rich power setting. If you aren't seeing that, you may not be putting enough gas through. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 621 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:18 PM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: Filler durability --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " David, Filling rivet seem a little extreme unless you have a lot of dings . . . there are methods for cleaning the rivets so there is no oil residue, etc . . . if you get the clean the paint should be fine? I'm no expert but that my suggestion . . . good luck! Bob On 6/3/05, DAVID REEL wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" > > I'd like to hear from anyone with experience of the durability of filler > on aluminum. The Imron paint my painter wants to use won't cover the small > gap between rivet head and dimpled skin reliably so we intend to fill the > rivets before painting. The plane will be yellow and stored outside so I'm > anticipating a pretty severe shrink/expand movement in the aluminum. The > documents I've seen don't address the coefficient of expansion of the filler > relative to aluminum or the strength of the bond so I'm hoping your > experiences, good and bad, can shed some light to help us pick a good filler > that won't crack around the rivets. > > We're considering All-Metal, Superfil, Aeropoxy light, Everglass, Feather > Fill, Sterling Primer/filler, and Dynalite. > > Dave Reel - RV8A > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:36 PM PST US From: "jacklockamy" Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT's....... how high is high? --> RV-List message posted by: "jacklockamy" Rick, Your email report is very timely as I was preparing to report a similar situation with my RV-7A equipped with a certified Lycoming 0-320-B1B (160 hp). I don't know what cowl you have but here is my take on the problem with high CHT's on my aircraft: Van's gave me a 90235 cowl when I picked up my QB kit at their factory in May-03. This is the same cowl they send to their RV-9 customers who plan to install a Lycoming 0-235 engine. I called Van's on this once I got home, looked at the part number on the cowl halves when unloading the U-Haul and was told "... this is the recommended cowl for our RV-9 Lycoming 0-235 customers and RV-7/7A customer installing a Lycoming 0-320.... ". OKAY! Build on.... Van's knew I planned to install a Lycoming 0-320 in my RV-7A and everything is okay. During my first flight (3/17/05) (see http://www.yudavision.net/rv/#7), I noted HIGH CHT's (400-445 deg F) during the flight on a rather cold, blustery (65 deg F OAT) day in Southern CA. I contributed this to NEW rebuild, tight engine, and etc. After 25 hours on my engine, it STILL produces CHT's in the area of 398 degrees F at cruise and a high of 435 degrees F during climbs at 120 KTS. This concerned me as I was fairly certain my engine was 'broken in...' at this point. I re-read the Tony Bingelis book 'Firewall Forward' which stated that the cowl air exit should be approximately 1.5 times the inlet size in order to obtain good engine cooling. I measured my 90235 cowl inlets and determinded there was approx. 39" of inlet air total versus ONLY 42 inches of exit air (subtracting for the exhuast pipes and etc.)!!! The inlet on the 90235 is TOO SMALL for a 160 HP engine! Might be good for a 108 HP Lycoming 0-235 but not nearly enough inlet/cooling air for a Lycoming 0-320/160 HP engine. Also the exit was way too small for the inlet air. My oil temps are great (175-190 deg F), it's the CHTs that have me concerned. 5. At approx. 33 hrs of engine operating time, I added two (2), 4"x4", SeaFit Marine exhaust vents to my lower cowl in order to increase the exit air openings -versus- the inlets in order to get a bit closer to the 1.5 deg ratio. It helped a bit by lowering CHTs approx 15 degrees, but I'm still sure the inlets are TOO SMALL on my cowl for proper cooling of a 160 HP engine. I have also discovered that running at 2300 RPMs and WOT at 7500 FT MSL, leaned 50 degrees ROP, my CHTs are running approx 363 degrees. I can live with this and my CHTs are approx. 35 degrees lower than while running at 2400 RPMS and WOT (22 inches of MAP). My recommendation for anyone installing a 150 or 160 HP Lycoming on their RV.... ensure you get the Lycoming 0-360 cowl from Van's!!! The 90235 cowl is TOO small. My hangar mate has a Lycoming 0-360 (and cowl) and his inlets/exits are perfect for the engine. I test flew his aircraft for the first 25 hours on a brand new Suerior engine and the CHT's never got above 360 degrees with an OAT of 80 degs F. His inlets and exit air openings are considerably larger than mine. (Sorry... I don't have the actual measurements.). I think Van's got the 0-360 cowl right, but missed the boat sending 90235 cowlings to Lycoming 0-320/160 HP customers. If I could do it again, and I may, I would ENSURE I got an 0-360 cowl from Van's for ANY engine I was installing. The inlets/exits are better sized..... Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA N174JL at the paint shop! http://www.yudavision.net/rv/#7 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:55 PM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon AOA --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" My understanding is a patent prevents someone from building, selling or "using" a patented invention. The rub is, unless you build or sell the invention, the damages would be so small from infringement that the cost of enforcing the patent would far outweigh the damages. If I am correct, then you are practically right, but technically wrong. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal Do not archive > > RobHickman@aol.com wrote: > > Patents don't prevent me from building a patented design and using it > for myself, it just prevents me from building it and selling it. I > could be wrong about that, but I don't think so. >