Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Van's Tach Doctor Needed (Greg Grigson)
2. 02:27 AM - Re: W&B calculator (james frierson)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: W&B calculator (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
4. 04:47 AM - Re: 6/6A Partial Kit (Jim Cole)
5. 05:03 AM - Re: The engine breather (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
6. 05:32 AM - Re: The engine breather (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
7. 05:44 AM - Re: Devil's advocate (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
8. 06:09 AM - Painting (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 06:14 AM - Question for Grove Gear users (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
10. 06:56 AM - Re: Painting (linn walters)
11. 07:02 AM - Re: Painting (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
12. 07:29 AM - Re: Painting (Bob Collins)
13. 08:00 AM - Re: The engine breather (Kenneth Ward)
14. 08:02 AM - Weight and Balance (Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta)
15. 08:10 AM - Re: Painting (Paul Folbrecht)
16. 08:49 AM - Re: The engine breather (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
17. 08:57 AM - Re: What's a "VOR" ??? (SCOTT SPENCER)
18. 09:10 AM - Re: What's a "VOR" ??? (SCOTT SPENCER)
19. 09:32 AM - Re: The engine breather ()
20. 09:32 AM - Re: The engine breather (JOHN STARN)
21. 10:02 AM - Newbie Dimpling Question (Brad Oliver)
22. 10:26 AM - Re: Newbie Dimpling Question (David E. Nelson)
23. 10:37 AM - Re: Newbie Dimpling Question (Larry Pardue)
24. 10:43 AM - Re: Newbie Dimpling Question (Joe Larson)
25. 10:47 AM - Re: Newbie Dimpling Question (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
26. 12:05 PM - Re: Newbie Dimpling Question (Brad Oliver)
27. 12:29 PM - F O R S A L E - RV-6 Empennage Kit (Bradley Kidder)
28. 06:02 PM - brake pad part number ?? (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Van's Tach Doctor Needed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2@yahoo.com>
I've got .5 hours on the 2 1/4" tach and tach
generator that Van sells. My mechanic buddy found the
generator loose during first-flight inspection and
tightened it with a big wrench. Soon after the tach
died.
I get 12+ volts from I to GND, and 8.68 volts from S
to GND (whether my drill is revving the drive or not).
Now I'm wondering if my drill should be set to
reverse, not forward.
Any ideas on how to diagnose this thing(s)?
Thanks.
Greg
Honolulu
__________________________________
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: W&B calculator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "james frierson" <tn3639@hotmail.com>
My -6A nose wieght came out at 256. That is with a O-320, wood prop and a
standard six pak panel.
L main 393, R main 379
Scott
N162RV
Flying
>From: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B calculator
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:43:39 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>
>On 06/07 9:08, Mark Burns wrote:
>
> > Can you (or someone) post some (average?) main and nose gear weights?
>
>Mine came out to 294 lbs or 26.2% of the total weight. Unfortunately,
>I don't have any other weights to compare it too.
>
>Perhaps some other nose dragger folks will post that information for you.
>Mine is a bit light due to the Whirlwind 200RV prop and very light
>EFIS panel. Some of it is countered by the Ram Air and associated
>fiberglass work. I'm guessing my nose gear weight to be about 10-15
>pounds less than the average nose dragger with a standard config.
>--
>Walter Tondu
>http://www.rv7-a.com
>
>
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Mine at 299 o-360 c/s
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/michael/rv/finishing/assembly/weightnbalan
ce/weightbalance.htm
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of james frierson
Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B calculator
--> RV-List message posted by: "james frierson" <tn3639@hotmail.com>
My -6A nose wieght came out at 256. That is with a O-320, wood prop and
a
standard six pak panel.
L main 393, R main 379
Scott
N162RV
Flying
>From: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B calculator
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:43:39 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>
>On 06/07 9:08, Mark Burns wrote:
>
> > Can you (or someone) post some (average?) main and nose gear
weights?
>
>Mine came out to 294 lbs or 26.2% of the total weight. Unfortunately,
>I don't have any other weights to compare it too.
>
>Perhaps some other nose dragger folks will post that information for
you.
>Mine is a bit light due to the Whirlwind 200RV prop and very light
>EFIS panel. Some of it is countered by the Ram Air and associated
>fiberglass work. I'm guessing my nose gear weight to be about 10-15
>pounds less than the average nose dragger with a standard config.
>--
>Walter Tondu
>http://www.rv7-a.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: 6/6A Partial Kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Cole <jcole@rangroup.com>
I am new to this list because I am trying to help a good friend of mine
who died unexpectedly in March. (34 years old).
I've been cleaning out his shop for his Mom and one of the things we
found was an empennage and wing kit, with completed gold anodized
spars for a 6 or 6A. I've done a little research and believe at current
prices it would be over $7500 Canadian and I think it around $5,000
Canadian would be a good deal for someone. It's still in the shipping
boxes and we have the builder certificate and # from Vans. If anyone is
interested or knows someone who might be, the kit is near Barrie,
Ontario and you can reach me at 705-458-9669.
Thanks
Jim Cole
Jim Cole
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Linn,
Makes sense to me. Fortunately, I'm a high time flyer, so I shouldn't see
that kind of problem. On the first RV, I put the 2008 Hs on in less than 9
years. So far on this one, I've got almost 400 Hrs in just 20 months. And
that includes a 3 month down time for another unrelated problem....
With the Lycoming issue of usually blowing out the first quart of oil out
the breather (assuming 8 Qts at start), I'm finding that I have
significantly less oil on the belly, and use only 1-2 Qts per 25 Hrs
(depending on how hard I push the engine). I partly attribute the oil return
technique to this kind of oil usage....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
395 Hrs
Second Offender!
-----Original Message-----
From: linn walters [mailto:lwalters2@cfl.rr.com]
Subject: Re: The engine breather
Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR wrote:
I can't say scientifically what problems returning the oil can cause.
But I ran one engine
(using this return technique) over 2000 Hrs without any problems. I've now
run a second
engine 395 Hrs with no issues....
Assuming the return oil is more acidic (which I wouldn't know until I test
it), what does
that really mean relative to engine performance or life??????
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
395 Hrs
Second Offender!
Not a bad (engine) lifetime. Flying often and for an hour or so each time
will be the best treatment for longevity. However, a lot of owners don't
fly often .... and the engine sits with that acidic water/oil mix in the
sump. Normal temperature cycles sitting on the ramp or in a hangar will
cause that to condense in the upper areas of the engine, and that causes
etching of the valve followers and the cam lobes. Lycomings are more
subject to this failure mode than Continentals. The rough followers chew up
the cam lobes requiring a teardown way before TBO. This is why buying an
older airplane with low time will usually result in an early engine major.
Think how many of your fellow owners on the airport come down, fly a few
laps around the pattern and then put the airplane to bed!
Other components ..... cylinder walls and rings are also etched in the same
way, but cam lobes get the worst beating.
Linn
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/05 9:58:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
ceengland@bellsouth.net writes:
> >I don't recommend (actually strongly oppose) returning the reclaimes
> >junk to the crankcase. I've seen the 'output' run through a long loop
> >of plastic hose to contain the crud, and the hose is periodically
> >emptied. this is in lieu of a small jar to catch the drippings which
> >can also be periodically emptied.
>>>>>
I like the litmus test idea too- very interesting, have to get some strips!
For anyone interested, I've created a website though the excellent services
of Rob Riggen at Expercraft- see:
http://www.expercraft.com/index.php
Amazing service- sign up today!
Regarding breather tubes, this is what I did and it has worked quite nicely
for almost 200 hours so far- virtually NO oil on the belly, just the lightest
of films so thin that I can hardly detect it. I will pull the pot scrubbers
and inspect for crud accumulation at 200 hour oil change and report findings.
I'd imagine rinsing the stuff would suffice, but replacement would be even
easier- See:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5172
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5173
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5174
(Click on the images for higher res.)
This entry shows oil drained at 100 hours- it's about 3 times the usual
amount due to many bad attempts to do decent aileron rolls, and still very little
oil on bottom. Engine has about 1000 hours on it at this time.
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5261
My new home page is:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
Y'all come visit & please sign the Guestbook!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - N51PW
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Devil's advocate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Dan,
I too did not respond to your original post. I fly a LOT of IFR in my
-6A.
Of the 208 Hrs in the first RV (in 9 years) I'd guess that at least 5%-10%
was
in hard IFR conditions. So far, in almost 400 Hours on the new -6A, I've
logged almost 20 Hrs of IFR (not during the 40 Hr test period). I've got
dual
batteries, single alternator, dual electronic ignitions (Electroair), dual
NAV/COMM/ILS with a single IFR approach certified GPS, WX-950 Storm
Scope, Dynon EFIS as a backup to the Manifold Aux Vacuum backup,
and an STEK System30 auto pilot with Alt hold. It's a serious traveling
machine!
And with four more weeks of vacation time, That's just what I'm planning
on doing! I'll be in Ames Iowa over July forth, with stops in Minnesota and
Michigan. In August, I'm planning a trip to new Mexico to visit a sister.
I'll
be in Florida over the week of Thanksgiving and over the
Christmas/New years break I'll be in Key West. All from the home base of
7B6 in CT.....
In order to not have to worry too much about the weather, IFR capabilities
are necessary for this type of travel....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
400Hrs
Second Offender!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <
paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com <mailto:paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com> >
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <
dan@rvproject.com <mailto:dan@rvproject.com> >
>
>Wow, not too many replies to this thread! Either people aren't
flying IFR,
>or they just don't want to admit how little IFR they really do fly
despite
>their fancy electrical systems.
>
>
Interesting topic. I meant to respond to the original poster and
didn't
get around to it. In hte last 2 months I've logged about 31 hours
with
5 actual but benign IMC (>2000' cigs).
>Given all the RV builders I know who have or are installing backup
>alternators and all sorts of fancy whizbang electronic toys, I doubt
any of
>them will actually ever make use of it! It's interesting, at least
to me.
>I see a LOT of money being spent on toys for peace of mind, and then
the
>pilot never flies in the clouds, or even at night!
>
>
I'm still pretty new to the experimental/RV community, so I'll have to
take your word for that, but I do know 2nd-hand of several local RVers
that do a lot of IFR in their birds. Maybe they are the exception.
As for me, I just got my IFR ticket in January, but now that it's not
freezing at 5-6000' anymore I've already started racking up the actual
time and do plan on lots of it. Even if you're only a 1,000' descent
away from VFR you still have to have some backup. It's insurance -
rarely - quite possibly never - used, but necessary nonetheless.
>It's so easy for us to get caught up in much more complex
installations than
>are actually required. Just because it's "affordable" doesn't mean
you
>should use it!
>
>
What's affordable? :-> It's crazy what a lot of this stuff costs
(avionics). Of course. I am planning on keeping my panel under $20K,
but just barely, and yet still have a very capable and dependable IFR
panel. It would not be difficult to spend double that, which does
strike me as pretty crazy unless you're flying serious IFR weekly or
better.
(As of now I plan a GRT EFIS Sport, GNS 300XL GPS/com, SL-30 nav/com
(dang that's a nice piece of equipment), Garmin 327 xponder, backup
electric TC, analog ASI and alt, and single-axis AP and that's about
it. Flying IFR with this setup will be pure heaven compared to my
current bare-bones C-152. I think it is a sane IFR panel for the
amount
and type of flying I plan and am currently doing.)
>Bob's recent replies on the "Z-19 vs. Z-14" thread have validated my
>thoughts (thanks, Bob). Keep it simple. Z-11, while simple,
lightweight,
>and inexpensive, is more than sufficient 99.999% of the time for
99.999% of
>us pilots...even the ones flying IFR.
>
>
With a 2nd battery, I completely agree. Possibly even without the 2nd
battery. :-> (Or perhaps just two batts in parallel instead of on
another bus which negates the slim open-cell risk.)
>Keep the stress off the battery terminals, keep a healthy battery,
and
>proceed as usual... Enjoy looking at what's *outside* the plane, and
put
>the $$$ into gas for your travels. Probably not a popular sentiment
among
>all these electrophiles, but oh well.
>
>do not archive
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com <http://www.rvproject.com/>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Checkoway" < dan@rvproject.com <mailto:dan@rvproject.com>
>
>To: < aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
<mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Devil's advocate
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
>>
>>
>< dan@rvproject.com <mailto:dan@rvproject.com> >
>
>
>>Homebuilt fliers out there who are instrument rated and keep current
and
>>really do fly IFR in your plane...here is a poll of sorts:
>>
>>- What % of your flying is IFR?
>>- What % of your flying is in solid IMC without a VFR "out"?
>>
>>I consider myself more active than the average private pilot who
flies for
>>fun. In the past 12 months, I flew 405 hours, 13.5 of which were
actual
>>instrument...3% of my flying. Approximately 3 of those hours were
in
>>
>>
>solid
>
>
>>IMC with no VFR "out." That's less than 1% of my flying. Zero
hours IFR
>>
>>
>at
>
>
>>night in the past year.
>>
>>Has anybody out there ever actually used a standby alternator in
IMC?
>>
>>How about in VMC...has anybody had a primary alternator fail, and
then
>>
>>
>flew
>
>
>>multiple legs home (more than just a local hop, i.e. a real cross
country
>>trip) using the standby alternator?
>>
>>Just curious.
>>
>>do not archive
>>)_( Dan
>>RV-7 N714D
>> http://www.rvproject.com <http://www.rvproject.com/>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Didn't get much of a response over on the -10 list so I thought I
would try over here.
So, the recent conversation on alodining skins over on the RV-10 List
has me wondering about something else. When painting aircraft most
paint shops will acid wash, alodine, and then go through the painting
steps, right? This brings up the questions:
1) How do they keep acid and alodine out of cracks and crevices
2) How can they make sure they reasonably get every bit of acid and
alodine off
3) What kind of damage would either do if wicked inside of a skin for
instance
4) How do they capture and dispose of the alodine when spraying it on.
Also, I have been considering filling my rivet lines with filler for
that nice flush appearance. I know it's not necessary, and I can hear
some people gasping at this moment, but, ignoring any weight issues from
the filler, it would look slick and I know other people have done it.
So ignoring all of the usual "why would you do that" stuff, does anyone
have any real reasons that someone shouldn't? I know it would be much
more difficult to remove a skin if necessary, but that would suck either
way.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352
Elevators
Message 9
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| Subject: | Question for Grove Gear users |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I have installed the fairings over my grove gear on my 8 and the piano
hinge is under a great deal of stress due to the thickness of the gear
and the very tight wrap of the fairing over them.
My experience tells me that the flush rivets holding the piano hinge in
the fiberglass will pull through eventually due to stress. For those
flying for a couple hundred hours or more on their grove gear with the
main fairings attached with piano hinge, are the rivets holding up? I
used 1" spacing and Im thinking of doubling up to prevent them from
pulling through.
Thanks
Mike
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
The reason you didn't get a response was that you asked what paint shops
do, and I'd guess 99% of us don't know what they do! I'll answer your
questions from a personal perspective:
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Didn't get much of a response over on the -10 list so I thought I
>would try over here.
>
> So, the recent conversation on alodining skins over on the RV-10 List
>has me wondering about something else. When painting aircraft most
>paint shops will acid wash, alodine, and then go through the painting
>steps, right? This brings up the questions:
>
>1) How do they keep acid and alodine out of cracks and crevices
>
You don't. It'll go everywhere.
>2) How can they make sure they reasonably get every bit of acid and
>alodine off
>
You can't. You wash with copious amounts of water and that should
dilute any left in the cracks and crevices.
>3) What kind of damage would either do if wicked inside of a skin for
>instance
>
Really don't have a clue, but it's minimal. I haven't seen any ongoing
damage that I could attribute to either acid wash or alodine.
>4) How do they capture and dispose of the alodine when spraying it on.
>
Good question. For Alodine I wipe on with a rag or spray it with an old
windex bottle and wipe it around. For the acid wash, I just use an old
plastic soda bottle with small holes drilled in the cap to sprinkle it
on and spread with a rag. Old rags and gloves go in the trash. Maybe
not so environmentally sensitive, but what else can you do ..... burn
the rags? Toxic smoke? I dunno.
> Also, I have been considering filling my rivet lines with filler for
>that nice flush appearance. I know it's not necessary, and I can hear
>some people gasping at this moment, but, ignoring any weight issues from
>the filler, it would look slick and I know other people have done it.
>So ignoring all of the usual "why would you do that" stuff, does anyone
>have any real reasons that someone shouldn't?
>
Cracking and peeling issues later on in life? Hard to say.
It's a little off topic, but let me relate a short story. When I
built my Pitts (fabric covered), I sprayed and sanded silver to make the
tapes invisible. A lot of hard work. When asked 'why'd you do that?',
my answer was the same as yours ... I wanted a sleek paint job. His
comment was that 'all fabric airplanes have tapes and it's normal to see
them' ..... and he's right. Aluminum airplanes (with the exception of
Grummans that are glued together) have rivets ..... and a nice rivet job
isn't a detraction in my mind. Hard to cover up one boo boo in a line
of rivets without making it stand out like a sore thumb though.
> I know it would be much
>more difficult to remove a skin if necessary, but that would suck either
>way.
>
Absolutely. I've seen RVs that looked like fiberglas ..... smooth as a
baby's butt ...... but that's a lot of work and, as you said, extra
weight that you'll carry around ..... slowing you down (however
imperceptical) and wasting your hard-earned gas money..
Best of luck
Linn
do not archive
>
>Michael Sausen
> -10 #352
>Elevators
>
>
>
>
--
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 6/8/05 8:10:13 AM Central Daylight Time,
rvbuilder@sausen.net writes:
> When painting aircraft most
> paint shops will acid wash, alodine, and then go through the painting
> steps, right?
>>>>>
My painter (Bobby Potts @ TCL) has not done the above for many years (ever,
possibly, but didn't ask) for the reasons you've cited among other things, and
had done paint most of his life. He washes the skin thoroughly, then scrubs
with Scotchbrite and acetone, IIRC, then primes etc. Dupont Chromabase
color/clearcoat system. Excellent results and the rivets look pretty darn good,
IMHO... Ask again in 20 years for my $.02- may be different in 2025....
(well, inflation alone will probably push it over a dime by then!)
Mark
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
FYI, the last three issues of Kitplanes have had a series of articles on
painting aircraft. Very helpful.
Bob
St. Paul
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael
Sausen)
Subject: RV-List: Painting
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
--> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Didn't get much of a response over on the -10 list so I thought I would
try over here.
So, the recent conversation on alodining skins over on the RV-10 List has
me wondering about something else. When painting aircraft most paint shops
will acid wash, alodine, and then go through the painting steps, right?
This brings up the questions:
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kenneth Ward <kennethward@peoplepc.com>
Has anyone vented the breather to the intake as is done on cars, thereby burning
the blowby gasses?
Quantity of gasses shouldn't be enough to disturb the mixture, as most new vehicles
have the crankcase vent joining induction system downstream of mass air flow
sensor. Older cars with PCV had it entering just outside the air filter. Why
isn't this method OK for aircraft?
Since this is probably a stupid question,
do not archive
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta" <Stephen.Adams@HCAhealthcare.com>
I found a nice W+B calculator on-line. You can enter all the W+B info for you aircraft. You can change the load and fuel using little sliding graphs and it shows a W+B chart depicting you CG. It also shows the change in CG as fuel is burned off. It's hard to explain, but it is really handy for quickly exploring the entire W+B envelope, especially if you have an RV-10. The site is http://www.skybound.nl/cgi-bin/service/wb/login.cgi.
Steve Adams
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht <paulfolbrecht@yahoo.com>
Yes, very helpful in convincing me that I never want to do it.
do not archive
Bob Collins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>FYI, the last three issues of Kitplanes have had a series of articles on
>painting aircraft. Very helpful.
>
>Bob
>St. Paul
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 6/8/05 10:02:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
kennethward@peoplepc.com writes:
> Quantity of gasses shouldn't be enough to disturb the mixture, as most new
> vehicles have the crankcase vent joining induction system downstream of mass
> air flow sensor. Older cars with PCV had it entering just outside the air
> filter. Why isn't this method OK for aircraft?
>>>
I started a thread on this back in '03- check RV-list archives for
"Slimybellyosis" for the discussion. I wound up with the separator mentioned in
post
earlier today...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: What's a "VOR" ??? |
--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
From AIM chapter 1 "...For TSO-C129/129A users, any required alternate airport
must still have an approved instrument approach procedure other than GPS that
is anticipated to be operational and available at the estimated time of arrival,
and which the aircraft is equipped to fly..."
and...
"NOTE-
Coincident to the WAAS commissioning, the FAA will begin removing the 'A N/A' (Alternate
minimums not authorized) symbol from the select RNAV (GPS) and GPS approach
procedures so they may be used by approach approved WAAS receivers at
alternate airports. This does not change the above requirements for users of GPS
TSO-C129/129A Airborne equipment..."
So... I guess he answer lies in whether or not your specific piece of equipment
meets what TSO... if it's 129A then it's required you have a non-GPS alternate
-if an alternate is required.
In addition, the place to go for 'all you ever wanted to know about GPS but were afraid to ask for fear of flames' can be found in AC 90-94... just go to www.faa.gov and do a search for advisory circulars. Type 'GPS' in the search window for lots of results.
No flame wars about this regulatory stuff without quoting references please.
Scott
N4ZW
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: What's a "VOR" ??? |
--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
After reading TSO C146 at www.faa.gov I am led to believe that *even if * your unit is certified under this TSO then you still need to be in an area where WAAS applies to use it's capabilities. So your 430's and 530's will still need non-GPS alternates until WAAS is implemented. And FWIW you're always gonna have to have predictive RAIM *no matter what* to use one for approaches of any type.
...from TSO C146... "PURPOSE. This technical standard order (TSO) prescribes the
minimum performance standard that stand alone airborne navigation equipment
using the Global Positioning System (GPS) augmented by the Wide Area Augmentation
System (WAAS) must meet in order to be identified with the applicable TSO
marking."
Scott
N4ZW
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Despite all the claims of the air/oil separators it is hard getting pure oil out
of the separator drain. Go ahead and route the oil back to the engine in a clear
tube or collect it. I think you will be surprised how nasty it is. Also there
is very little oil, most of it is water. My clear bottle showed 3 layers.
Water 80%, milky oil 15% and a layer of yellow foam crud floating on top. The
amount of oil in my collection jar was may be 1oz of oil between oil changes.
My engine used about a 1 to 1.5 qt between 25 hour oil changes. My new projext
will not use a separator.
Even if you could get the 1oz of oil back to the engine without returning the other
stuff (water, combustion by-product) is it worth it?
I had a typo and meant to say the volume of stuff coming out of the air/oil separator
is small on a healthy engine. There really should not be much coming out
in the first place so forget it, it is not worth it.
Air/oil separator adds weight , cost and clutter to your airplane. No separator=Light-simple-works.
If you have lots of oil coming out of the breather there might be a problem.
One of the biggest killers of aircraft engines is dis-use and corrosion due to
moisture. That is why regular operations burn this off. Why return it to the engine.
BTW, Lycoming recommends a oil temp of approx 190F to burn the water off
in the engine. The temp in the valve area is about 20F higher which will boil
off the water (approx 212F @ sea level).
I guess if you run hot enough, long enough and fly often the moisture will eventually
be burned off, even if the air/oil separator is returning some water, but
again why feed it back into the engine at all.
If you must add the separator, try the little collection bottle method first. I
used a little plastic bottle I got at the sporting good store for back-packing.
It has a screw top. The throat of the bottle was just right to tap an screw
in plastic/nylon plastic with a barbed tube connector. I basically hug the bottle
under the separator from the tube, safety wiring the tube on both end. Since
it was a RV-4, the bottle rested on the nice little protruding firewall shelf.
I guess it made a little difference, but I think burning it off the eahust
would have been good enough.
Cheers George
From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The engine breather
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England
<ceengland@bellsouth.net>
linn walters wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>I don't recommend (actually strongly oppose) returning the reclaimes
>junk to the crankcase. I've seen the 'output' run through a long loop
>of plastic hose to contain the crud, and the hose is periodically
>emptied. this is in lieu of a small jar to catch the drippings which
>can also be periodically emptied. If you have access to litmus paper,
>test fresh oil and the recovered oil and see just how acidic the
>recovered oil is.
>Linn
>
>do not archive ..... already there somewhere!
>
This is why I read hundreds of emails every day. Occasionally I see
something I haven't seen before, & checking for acidity of the blowby
oil is something I've never thought of.
Now, to play devil's advocate. Have you ever tested the blowby oil &
then immediately tested the crankcase oil? I'm curious about how much
difference there would be.
On the related subject of accumulated water: has anyone proven that the
accumulated water is actually coming out of the engine & not being
drawn
into the catch can/tube out of the surrounding air as the system cools?
Charlie
---------------------------------
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: The engine breather |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
The really "older" cars vented direct, no PCV. no catch bottles, it was a
line that ran down under the car to the road surface from the oil filler
neck. (No, Virginia the really "older" cars didn't have oil inlet caps on
the valve covers. (but some did have "breather" caps there).
Most RV's, Rockets have a forced air intake systems, this IMNSHO, would
produce opposing pressures. Vented air trying to get out, forced intake air
trying to get in. Unless you install a restrictive device to eliminate
backflow.
Use the KISS method, (Keep It Simple Stupid) run the vent line onto or into
the hot exhaust and burn/vaporize the yuk stuff. Build as fancy a connector
as required to keep you happy just make sure you don't reduce the size
and/or restrict the flow.
Why I even know why Harley riders wear black.....The "older" Harleys had a
chain oiler (we called it a spit tube, it was powered by venting gases) that
sprayed oil directly onto a spinning drive chain, which then flung the oil
everywhere & the oil spots didn't show so bad on black things. They also had
"spark retarders" & "kick starters". If you didn't "retard" the spark you
soon found out what the "kick" in kick starter meant.
EE...Gads, I think I just gave away how many years I've been walking
around on the planet. KABONG 8*) Do Not Archive (GBA & GWB)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kenneth Ward <kennethward@peoplepc.com>
>
> Has anyone vented the breather to the intake as is done on cars, thereby
> burning the blowby gasses?
>
> Quantity of gasses shouldn't be enough to disturb the mixture, as most new
> vehicles have the crankcase vent joining induction system downstream of
> mass air flow sensor. Older cars with PCV had it entering just outside the
> air filter. Why isn't this method OK for aircraft?
Message 21
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| Subject: | Newbie Dimpling Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
I am pretty early on in my tail construction and am getting ready to
dimple my first holes. Last night I played around dimpling some scrap
and I was surprised to see how much larger the #30 hole I had just
drilled became after dimpling. I didn't measure, but I would estimate
the hole to be 1/64" larger in diameter after dimpling and the -4 rivet
really swam around in the dimpled hole. I took a SportAir sheet metal
class back in March, but all we did was -3 rivets and I don't recall
how much larger (if at all) the holes became after dimpling.
I also tried some -3 last night, and sure enough the holes became
larger, but it sure seems like a lot on those -4s.
In short... is this normal? I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
just fill up the void.
Thanks,
Brad Oliver
RV-7 | N609BC Reserved
Livermore, CA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Dimpling Question |
15, 2004) at 06/08/2005 12:25:15 PM,
Serialize by Router on MailServ59-US/AUS/H/NIC(Release 6.5.3FP1|December
15, 2004) at
06/08/2005 12:25:18 PM,
Serialize complete at 06/08/2005 12:25:18 PM
--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Brad,
Welcome to the RV building community. Yes, this normal. The rivet will expand
and fill the hole quite nicely.
Regards,
/\/elson
Austin, TX
Wings - Ailerons and Flaps
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Brad Oliver wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
>
> I am pretty early on in my tail construction and am getting ready to
> dimple my first holes. Last night I played around dimpling some scrap
> and I was surprised to see how much larger the #30 hole I had just
> drilled became after dimpling. I didn't measure, but I would estimate
> the hole to be 1/64" larger in diameter after dimpling and the -4 rivet
> really swam around in the dimpled hole. I took a SportAir sheet metal
> class back in March, but all we did was -3 rivets and I don't recall
> how much larger (if at all) the holes became after dimpling.
>
> I also tried some -3 last night, and sure enough the holes became
> larger, but it sure seems like a lot on those -4s.
>
> In short... is this normal? I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
> just fill up the void.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad Oliver
> RV-7 | N609BC Reserved
> Livermore, CA
>
>
--
~~ ** ~~ 4 out of 3 people have problems with fractions ~~ ** ~~
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Dimpling Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On 6/8/05 11:01 AM, "Brad Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com> wrote:
>
>I was surprised to see how much larger the #30 hole I had just
> drilled became after dimpling.
>
> In short... is this normal?
Yes
>I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
> just fill up the void.
Yes
Do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Dimpling Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
There tends to be some growth in the hole, which is why many of us
drill our holes very slightly undersized (#31 instead of a #30 drill
bit, for instance). There will be some filling of the hole,
depending on just how much rivet swimming is going on.
It's possible you're over-dimpling. If you're concerned, you can
probably find a tech advisor in your area who can check your technique.
-Joe
On Jun 8, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Brad Oliver wrote:
> I am pretty early on in my tail construction and am getting ready to
> dimple my first holes. Last night I played around dimpling some scrap
> and I was surprised to see how much larger the #30 hole I had just
> drilled became after dimpling. I didn't measure, but I would estimate
> the hole to be 1/64" larger in diameter after dimpling and the -4
> rivet
> really swam around in the dimpled hole. I took a SportAir sheet metal
> class back in March, but all we did was -3 rivets and I don't recall
> how much larger (if at all) the holes became after dimpling.
>
> I also tried some -3 last night, and sure enough the holes became
> larger, but it sure seems like a lot on those -4s.
>
> In short... is this normal? I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
> just fill up the void.
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie Dimpling Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 6/8/05 12:03:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
brad@rv7factory.com writes:
> In short... is this normal? I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
> just fill up the void.
>>>>>
Sounds pretty normal- look closely at the dimpled hole to make sure there are
no cracks radiating out from the edge- if the hole is deburred correctly,
this should not happen. As an experiment, you can take a riveted part and
carefully grind away to the center of the rivet to see the cross-section of the
joint for a look at what happens here. It should be a good tight fit with the
rivet filling the available space...
Mark Phillips
Message 26
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| Subject: | Newbie Dimpling Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
Thanks to all that have responsed.
Hmmm #31... that sounds like a good idea.
As far as over-dimpling goes, I have wondered about that concept. How
is it possible to over-dimple when the dies are fixed surfaces? If I
sit and ponder this for a minute... does over-dimpling squeeze aluminum
out from between the dies, resulting in a decrease in the thickness of
the aluminum (around the hole), thus making it weaker and suseptible to
cracking? Is that what happens when you over-dimple?
In my case I am using a DRDT-2 dimpling frame, so unless I were to
really bare down on the lever with all my weight, I imagine my chances
of over-dimpling are somewhat mitigated.
Regards,
Brad
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Newbie Dimpling Question
> From: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
> Date: Wed, June 08, 2005 10:40 am
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> There tends to be some growth in the hole, which is why many of us
> drill our holes very slightly undersized (#31 instead of a #30 drill
> bit, for instance). There will be some filling of the hole,
> depending on just how much rivet swimming is going on.
>
> It's possible you're over-dimpling. If you're concerned, you can
> probably find a tech advisor in your area who can check your technique.
>
> -Joe
>
> On Jun 8, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Brad Oliver wrote:
>
> > I am pretty early on in my tail construction and am getting ready to
> > dimple my first holes. Last night I played around dimpling some scrap
> > and I was surprised to see how much larger the #30 hole I had just
> > drilled became after dimpling. I didn't measure, but I would estimate
> > the hole to be 1/64" larger in diameter after dimpling and the -4
> > rivet
> > really swam around in the dimpled hole. I took a SportAir sheet metal
> > class back in March, but all we did was -3 rivets and I don't recall
> > how much larger (if at all) the holes became after dimpling.
> >
> > I also tried some -3 last night, and sure enough the holes became
> > larger, but it sure seems like a lot on those -4s.
> >
> > In short... is this normal? I assume if it is the squeezed rivet will
> > just fill up the void.
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | F O R S A L E - RV-6 Empennage Kit |
Z-USANET-MsgId: XID558JFHTdg0063X36
1.34 GAPPY_SUBJECT Subject: contains G.a.p.p.y-T.e.x.t
--> RV-List message posted by: Bradley Kidder <sparksnmagic@usa.net>
For Sale:
Pre-drilled RV-6/6A empennage kit. Includes construction manual, preview
plans, and optional electric trim kit.
Some riveting done, perhaps 15%.
Asking price is $950 (paid $1435 7/98).
Absolutely undamaged and safely stored.
Located in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Pictures available.
><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
Brad Kidder .=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA>
N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One"
AOPA (ASN/KSLG) - EAA - Angel Flight
.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>
. , . .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>
Message 28
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| Subject: | brake pad part number ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Anyone recall what brakes Van was selling & what the pad #'s are for
rv4 kits sold in the late '80s? I thought I had a spare set of pads but
I can't find them & the labels on both calipers have had their data
polished off almost completely. I can read the FAA tso # (30-9) & I've
got some Cleveland #44011 pads with 2 rivet holes that line up with the
originals (3 holes in the originals) but the 44011's width (inner radius
to outer radius) is about 1/4" bigger than the originals.
I'd like to order from a vender close enough to get them next day w/o
having to pay air freight charges.
Thanks,
Charlie
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