Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (linn walters)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (JOHN STARN)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (Tim Coldenhoff)
4. 09:19 AM - DAR (Kevin Shannon)
5. 02:38 PM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (Brad Oliver)
6. 05:31 PM - Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (Bill Dube)
7. 07:05 PM - Governor bracket (Ted D. Hultzapple)
8. 07:28 PM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (Brett Morawski)
9. 07:52 PM - Re: Governor bracket (John Furey)
10. 08:38 PM - Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. (glaesers)
11. 10:15 PM - Re: Governor bracket (Terry Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Brad Oliver wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com>
>
>Since starting my empennage about a few weeks ago, I set out today to do my
>first batch of priming. Unfortunately the results were less than stellar...
>
>I am using the AFS Water-based 1-Part Primer/Sealer, sprayed by a Harbor
>Freight HVLP Detail Gun. My process was a simple one used by several other
>builders... wipe down parts with lacquer thinner, wash with dawn, clean/etch
>with AFS etcher/cleaner, wash parts with clean water, dry, then spray the
>primer. What I ended up with was a combination of orange peel, fish eyes,
>and splattered primer. Caused by... I don't know... me, my process, my
>equipment, or a combination???
>
>My understanding is that the fish eyes are caused by surface contamination.
>I scrubbed the parts with a soapy scotchbrite, rinsed them, then cleaned
>with AFS Cleaner/Etch, rinsed again, dried them using air, and sprayed the
>primer only minutes after etching. I am baffled because I never touched the
>parts with my bare hands and the rinse water always sheeted... the parts
>*appeared* to be clean, obviously they were not. Any suggestions on how to
>avoid the fish eyes or improve my process? Would wiping the parts with a
>tack rag prior to spraying the primer be advisable? Could the fish eyes
>have been caused my contaminants in the air supply or spray gun?
>
Bingo! That was my first thought! I was amazed at how much 'junk' came
along with my 'clean' air! I added a 'toilet paper' filter to my
system, at the end of my feed hose to my paint booth. I use a small,
light hose from the filter to the gun.
>What I am less clear on is the orange peel and splattered primer (almost
>like texture). I sprayed outside on a sunny day with temps in the high 70s
>(maybe a little higher). Could the outside temp or the temp of the parts
>have anything to do with the orange peel or splattered primer?
>
Maybe. My experience with paint in general, but not the AFS stuff, is
that splatter is due to too low air pressure or too thick paint. I also
have my pressure regulator at the end of my feed hose next to the TP
filter. Regulators leak sometimes, and the hose makes a neat reservoir
for the excess pressure. If you have a long hose, then it may take a
second or two for the pressure to get down to the regulated point ....
after you've already started laying paint down. If you squeeze the gun
a little and bleed the air pressure down before squeezing to get the
paint, you'll get rid of that problem. It's just harder to get it right.
>Any idea what is going wrong and what I can do to resolve these issues?
>
See above.
>On a side note, I am not impressed with the Harbor Freight HVLP gun... it
>seems to either spray little to no primer or too much primer, but never in
>between. The primer getting lower in the cup seems to create a vacuum above
>the primer which prevents primer from feeding into the gun, then upon
>releasing the vacuum by opening the lid on the cup the gun sprays
>excessively until it eventually builds up a vacuum again and stops
>altogether.
>
Hmmm. This could be another problem. Spray guns either have vented
cans or pressurized cans. I have a couple of HF guns .... they're cheap
and I'm not as good a painter to get the value out of an expensive one.
I do have a $300 professional gun but I get the same results with the
cheap guns. Anyway, the HVLP guns will either have a hole in the lid to
prevent the vacuum, or a hose going from the lid to the top of the gun.
Most have the hose. At the top of the gun is a valve. Loosening the
valve will allow pressure to flow to the can giving the paint a boost up
to the nozzle. Regulate that pressure for coarse adjustments in paint
flow. Fine adjustments at the nozzle.
>Thanks,
>Brad Oliver
>RV-7 Livermore, CA
>
>PS - Those self-etching rattle can primers are sounding better every minute.
>;-)
>
Oh yeah! Expensive though!!! Think of the primer as a training aid
.... by the time you're ready to shoot paint on the outside, you'll be
an excellent painter!!!! Practice, Practice, Practice!!!
Another hint: Because you will use many small batches of paint
(speaking of 2-part stuff here), offload that gallon of paint into glass
mayonaise jars after you've mixed the paint thoroughly. Label the jars
with the paint number, the Mfgr., the name of the second part, and the
mixing ratio. You may be using a couple of paint Mfgr's and they need
to be kept separate. The jars allow you to pour paint into your
measuring cup easier and you don't waste paint.
Linn ..... sanded a lot of paint!!!!
do not archive
>
>
>
>
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
We have a problem with the water at APV. When painting of any type we wash
with the stuff from the end of the hose BUT give a "final" rinse with
bottled water. Water from the tap at APV will cause "fisheyes" in just about
anything we prime and/or paint. Your circumstances may vary but a coupla
bucks for the "final" rinse may save you some time & work. KABONG HRII
N561FS Do No Archive (GBA & GWB)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark A. Sedlacek" <Mark@sedlaceks.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please.
>> Hi Brad, I've been using the AFS primer for some time now and have had
>> pretty good luck with it. It appears your prep is sound. I'd look to
>> oil and or water in your compressed air line as the source of your "fish
>> eyes" and the aluminum was hot from spraying outside in the sun as the
>> source of the orange peel.
>
a few weeks ago, I set out today to do my
> first batch of priming. Unfortunately the results were less than
> stellar...
>
>
> My understanding is that the fish eyes are caused by surface
> contamination.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Coldenhoff <rv9a_000@deru.com>
Brad Oliver wrote:
> What I am less clear on is the orange peel and splattered primer (almost
> like texture). I sprayed outside on a sunny day with temps in the high 70s
> (maybe a little higher). Could the outside temp or the temp of the parts
> have anything to do with the orange peel or splattered primer?
>
> Any idea what is going wrong and what I can do to resolve these issues?
I have painted my plane with AFS and have gotten less than stellar
results because of the spray environment (too hot and dry in Arizona)
and my ability as a painter.
What I did learn is that your temps need to be below 80, and keep the
humidity as high as you can. Try spraying water on the ground around
the parts to help. If it warms up any more, coil up your air hose
and put it in a cold water bath. Temperature at the tip of the gun
makes a big difference also.
For the fish eye, check your hoses and make sure there is no oil
or water in the lines. Use clean hoses and a water trap/filter.
It sounds in your case like the gun setup is off. The AFS
paints require that you be able to spray a mist of paint. The
technique is that you put on a mist coat, wait till it gets tacky,
then spray another mist coat. Repeat until you get good coverage,
which may mean four or more passes. You can't spray on volume
or it will run & sag.
I used a HD gravity feed gun with good results. It only costs
about $40, and I used it to spray the whole plane. I would highly
recommend fixing or changing the gun until you can consistently
spray a nice mist from it. Use a box or some paper or something to
practice spraying on; don't continue with real parts until you are
ready. Trust me, sanding it all off back to bare metal is a lot
of work... I know!
- Tim Coldenhoff
RV9A N194TC - Flying!
http://rv9a.deru.com
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon@seanet.com>
Seattle area RVers,
I highly recommend the DAR that just did my -8, he was very
knowledgeable and helpful with getting through all the paperwork issues,
charged what I thought was a very reasonable fee ($200) and even came
out and did it on a Saturday. His contact info is
Charlie Cotton
360-893-6719
Kevin Shannon
Message 5
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| Subject: | Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
Thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions. Based on the
feedback I received I am making the following changes to my set-up
and/or process...
>>> Bring it inside, or wait until evening
The parts were probably too hot to be spraying primer. I also think
the sunlight reflecting off the parts made it hard for me to tell
how much primer I was spraying on them, and I think ended up
spraying too much.
>>> Thin primer a bit more
I had thinned it, using distilled water, to 25 secs. I may try to go
down to around 20 secs. IIRC the range for AFS is 20-25 secs.
>>> Install a small filter at the END of the air hose
My set-up has a 4' hose, a filter/regulator, a 25' hose, a desiccant
cartridge, then another regulator (on the gun). While my hope was that
the desiccant cartridge would remove any errant water in the line, I am
thinking a filter might be better (plus the desiccant).
>>> Final rinse or wipe down parts with bottled/distilled water
I will probably buy a few gallons of distilled water and use them along
with a lint free cloth to give the parts a final wipe down before
hanging them to dry.
>>> Drip (hang) dry parts
After the final rinse (wipe down), I will let the parts drip dry inside.
>>> Gun pressure
Experiment more.
>>> HVLP Gun
Poke a hole in the lid to allow the pressure to equalize in the cup.
>>> Technique
Spray a light fog coat first not worrying about getting it on the entire
part. I can always hit the area I missed the next time around.
Thanks! I will post my results here.
~Brad
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RV-List: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please.
> From: "Brad Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com>
> Date: Sun, June 19, 2005 10:34 pm
> To: "Rv-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com>
>
> Since starting my empennage about a few weeks ago, I set out today to do my
> first batch of priming. Unfortunately the results were less than stellar...
>
> I am using the AFS Water-based 1-Part Primer/Sealer, sprayed by a Harbor
> Freight HVLP Detail Gun. My process was a simple one used by several other
> builders... wipe down parts with lacquer thinner, wash with dawn, clean/etch
> with AFS etcher/cleaner, wash parts with clean water, dry, then spray the
> primer. What I ended up with was a combination of orange peel, fish eyes,
> and splattered primer. Caused by... I don't know... me, my process, my
> equipment, or a combination???
>
> My understanding is that the fish eyes are caused by surface contamination.
> I scrubbed the parts with a soapy scotchbrite, rinsed them, then cleaned
> with AFS Cleaner/Etch, rinsed again, dried them using air, and sprayed the
> primer only minutes after etching. I am baffled because I never touched the
> parts with my bare hands and the rinse water always sheeted... the parts
> *appeared* to be clean, obviously they were not. Any suggestions on how to
> avoid the fish eyes or improve my process? Would wiping the parts with a
> tack rag prior to spraying the primer be advisable? Could the fish eyes
> have been caused my contaminants in the air supply or spray gun?
>
> What I am less clear on is the orange peel and splattered primer (almost
> like texture). I sprayed outside on a sunny day with temps in the high 70s
> (maybe a little higher). Could the outside temp or the temp of the parts
> have anything to do with the orange peel or splattered primer?
>
> Any idea what is going wrong and what I can do to resolve these issues?
>
> On a side note, I am not impressed with the Harbor Freight HVLP gun... it
> seems to either spray little to no primer or too much primer, but never in
> between. The primer getting lower in the cup seems to create a vacuum above
> the primer which prevents primer from feeding into the gun, then upon
> releasing the vacuum by opening the lid on the cup the gun sprays
> excessively until it eventually builds up a vacuum again and stops
> altogether.
>
> Thanks,
> Brad Oliver
> RV-7 Livermore, CA
>
> PS - Those self-etching rattle can primers are sounding better every minute.
> ;-)
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
I would think it wiser to Alodine the parts before assembly.
1) ProSeal would likely stick better.
2) No residue in seams, nooks, and crannies.
3) No possible damage to the ProSeal.
4) You can properly prep the surfaces for the Alodine application.
Bill Dube'
Message 7
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| Subject: | Governor bracket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ted D. Hultzapple" <thultzap@rochester.rr.com>
Can anyone tell me if the bracket that Van's sells (VA-153-PC) will fit the
Jihostroj governor?
Thanks,
Ted
Message 8
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| Subject: | Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski" <brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
I got fish eyes in my first batch of primer. Turns out the problem had been
with my bright idea to transfer the primer components to the mixing
container using cheap squeeze bulb turkey basters. I found something in the
archives or somewhere else that said one of the primer components would
dissolve certain rubbers or plastics and contaminate the primer and result
in fish eyes. Since I still use plastic mixing cups with no problem then
I'm guessing the primer dissolved the rubber bulb material. Anyway, you
might want to think about everything your primer comes into contact with on
its way to the aluminum.
Brett
Toledo
8a wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Oliver
Subject: RV-List: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com>
Since starting my empennage about a few weeks ago, I set out today to do my
first batch of priming. Unfortunately the results were less than stellar...
I am using the AFS Water-based 1-Part Primer/Sealer, sprayed by a Harbor
Freight HVLP Detail Gun. My process was a simple one used by several other
builders... wipe down parts with lacquer thinner, wash with dawn, clean/etch
with AFS etcher/cleaner, wash parts with clean water, dry, then spray the
primer. What I ended up with was a combination of orange peel, fish eyes,
and splattered primer. Caused by... I don't know... me, my process, my
equipment, or a combination???
My understanding is that the fish eyes are caused by surface contamination.
I scrubbed the parts with a soapy scotchbrite, rinsed them, then cleaned
with AFS Cleaner/Etch, rinsed again, dried them using air, and sprayed the
primer only minutes after etching. I am baffled because I never touched the
parts with my bare hands and the rinse water always sheeted... the parts
*appeared* to be clean, obviously they were not. Any suggestions on how to
avoid the fish eyes or improve my process? Would wiping the parts with a
tack rag prior to spraying the primer be advisable? Could the fish eyes
have been caused my contaminants in the air supply or spray gun?
What I am less clear on is the orange peel and splattered primer (almost
like texture). I sprayed outside on a sunny day with temps in the high 70s
(maybe a little higher). Could the outside temp or the temp of the parts
have anything to do with the orange peel or splattered primer?
Any idea what is going wrong and what I can do to resolve these issues?
On a side note, I am not impressed with the Harbor Freight HVLP gun... it
seems to either spray little to no primer or too much primer, but never in
between. The primer getting lower in the cup seems to create a vacuum above
the primer which prevents primer from feeding into the gun, then upon
releasing the vacuum by opening the lid on the cup the gun sprays
excessively until it eventually builds up a vacuum again and stops
altogether.
Thanks,
Brad Oliver
RV-7 Livermore, CA
PS - Those self-etching rattle can primers are sounding better every minute.
;-)
Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
1:42:19 AM ET - 6/20/2005
Message 9
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| Subject: | Governor bracket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I got my bracket from vans but I had to cut it and re-weld it to make it fit
the way I wanted it to.
John
RV6A O-320
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Problems Spraying Primer (AFS)... suggestions please. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
Wow - I just primed a bunch of parts for my empennage this weekend - and
everything came out fine. I'm using the AFS primer (one part) - sounds
like Brett used a two-part primer. I'm using the small primer sprayer from
Vans catalog which uses 35mm canisters and had the same 'bright idea' about
using a turkey baster to fill the canister. Since the volume is small, I
only needed to fill the baster about half way. I never let the paint come
in contact with the bulb because I didn't want to hassle with cleaning it.
Being lazy pays off once in a while :-) Maybe the one-part primer doesn't
attack the bulb material (I'll have to test it), but it's not worth taking a
chance!
Dennis Glaeser
Rochester Hills, MI
7A Empennage
--------------------------------------------
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski"
<brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
I got fish eyes in my first batch of primer. Turns out the problem had been
with my bright idea to transfer the primer components to the mixing
container using cheap squeeze bulb turkey basters. I found something in the
archives or somewhere else that said one of the primer components would
dissolve certain rubbers or plastics and contaminate the primer and result
in fish eyes. Since I still use plastic mixing cups with no problem then
I'm guessing the primer dissolved the rubber bulb material. Anyway, you
might want to think about everything your primer comes into contact with on
its way to the aluminum.
Brett
Toledo
8a wings
------------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Governor bracket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I have an 8.5 x 11 sheet from Van's that is the "Installation/Orientation,
MT Governor/VA-183 Bracket. I am quite sure this is the Jihostroj governor
that I bought from Van's, but note the bracket number is different from the
one you mention.
Terry
RV-8A; Superior/Aero Sport Power IO-360-b1b
Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted D. Hultzapple
Subject: RV-List: Governor bracket
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ted D. Hultzapple"
<thultzap@rochester.rr.com>
Can anyone tell me if the bracket that Van's sells (VA-153-PC) will fit the
Jihostroj governor?
Thanks,
Ted
_
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