---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/21/05: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:10 AM - Re: Black Liquid glue/sealer (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com) 2. 06:48 AM - Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (Jamie Painter) 3. 07:52 AM - Van's Fuel Valve (George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR) 4. 08:51 AM - Re: Governor bracket (Mike Robertson) 5. 10:20 AM - *EFIS / INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE* (Bill VonDane) 6. 10:46 AM - Sedona (Wheeler North) 7. 10:49 AM - lycoming lift ring (Wheeler North) 8. 12:34 PM - Re: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion (Ron Lee) 9. 12:35 PM - Re: Firewall control cable hole locations (John B. Szantho) 10. 12:43 PM - Re: Sedona (Paul Besing) 11. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Firewall control cable hole locations (Pat Hatch) 12. 01:56 PM - Tail for RV6/6A (FLYNBYK@cs.com) 13. 02:32 PM - Re: Sedona (John Huft) 14. 02:39 PM - Re: Tail for RV6/6A (Dan DeNeal) 15. 03:08 PM - Re: Sedona (Larry Pardue) 16. 03:12 PM - Re: *EFIS / INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE* (Bill VonDane) 17. 03:22 PM - Re: Sedona (Doug Rozendaal) 18. 03:53 PM - Re: Sedona (Larry Pardue) 19. 05:22 PM - Re: Sedona (Paul Besing) 20. 05:22 PM - RV-4 air vent (Doug Weiler) 21. 05:25 PM - Re: Tail for RV6/6A (Darrell Reiley) 22. 05:58 PM - Spinner Help () 23. 06:23 PM - Re: Sedona (John Huft) 24. 06:28 PM - Re: RV-4 air vent (Randy Lervold) 25. 06:53 PM - Re: Sedona (Paul Besing) 26. 07:52 PM - Re: RV-4 air vent (Doug Weiler) 27. 07:58 PM - Re: Tail for RV6/6A (Mark Grieve) 28. 08:41 PM - Re: Spinner Help (Brian Alley) 29. 08:51 PM - bakerocb@cox.net (Brian Alley) 30. 09:27 PM - Re: RV-4 air vent (H.Ivan Haecker) 31. 09:27 PM - Spinner bulkhead indexing (Larry Bowen) 32. 10:07 PM - Re: Sedona (Tom Gummo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:32 AM PST US From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Black Liquid glue/sealer --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey, Scotchweld 286 is somewhat fluid and can probably be extended with an epoxy solvent - would need to do some tests though. When it sets it is hard but flexible - not at all brittle. Michle > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:54 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Black Liquid glue/sealer > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > I'm looking for something that may not exist, but > thought I'd check here. I need a sealer or glue > that will flow pretty well when wet, but will > dry kind of like hard rubber. My fallback is > to mix up some epoxy and try to put some pigment > in it, but I'd prefer it if the result had just > a bit of flexibility. Does anyone know if such a > product exists, and where I can buy it? > > Thanks, > Mickey > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 Canopy > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion From: "Jamie Painter" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" Hmm...if you generally keep the tanks as full as possible...do you really need to worry about corrosion prevention in the tanks? If fuel is in there...O2 isn't getting to anything (except a little around the highest-points on the outboard end of the tank) so nothing's oxidizing, right? - Jamie do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > I would think it wiser to Alodine the parts before assembly. > > 1) ProSeal would likely stick better. > 2) No residue in seams, nooks, and crannies. > 3) No possible damage to the ProSeal. > 4) You can properly prep the surfaces for the Alodine application. > > Bill Dube' -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A fuselage N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:21 AM PST US From: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR Subject: RV-List: Van's Fuel Valve --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR Listers - I received my fuselage kit last month and have some excess parts that I'd like to move. A current-production Van's brass fuel selector valve with the plastic (Teflon?) insert. I'll throw in a set of shiny new tail wheel steering chains and springs with attach links. $30, shipped CONUS. Off-list at neal@appaero.com or 334-546-2033 Neal Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:21 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Governor bracket --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Van's sells two different governor brackets. One for the Woodward and the other for the Jihostroj. Just tell them which one you want. They are not interchangable. Mike Robertson >From: "Ted D. Hultzapple" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Governor bracket >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:40 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ted D. Hultzapple" > > >Can anyone tell me if the bracket that Van's sells (VA-153-PC) will fit the >Jihostroj governor? >Thanks, >Ted > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:40 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: RV-List: *EFIS / INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE* --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" I have some stuff for sale that some of you might be interested in... NEW: Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS w/GPS Module - $9000 USED: Airspeed - $100 Altimeter - $150 VSI - $95 G-Meter - $240 Needle & Ball - $195 More info and photos here: http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm -Bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:43 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Well, having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us neophytes. I do have to tell a story on myself though. Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above the runway. I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the fuel farm. But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying skills. I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but 1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? W do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:32 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: lycoming lift ring --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Wow, after reading this I gotta comment. The Lycoming case was never designed to be a lifting point for the entire aircraft. I would be very cautious using this for anything other than lifting the engine, sans an aircraft and propeller. W ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:23 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Sloshing fuel tanks w/alodine after completion --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee While you may be correct this is an unrealistic solution. You just can't keep the fuel tanks full while flying and many folks will not immediately fill the tank after every flight. Ron Lee do not archive >Hmm...if you generally keep the tanks as full as possible...do you really need >to worry about corrosion prevention in the tanks? > >If fuel is in there...O2 isn't getting to anything (except a little around the >highest-points on the outboard end of the tank) so nothing's oxidizing, right? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:03 PM PST US From: "John B. Szantho" Subject: RV-List: Re: Firewall control cable hole locations --> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" I am ready to install the engine mount and engine on my RV9-A (O-320 D1A, standard Lycoming, no special additions); however I would like to drill the firewall holes for the Throttle, Carbheat, and Mixture cables. Van's suggested that I should install the engine first, because the DWG 19 depicted hole locations might change. It sure would be a big pain to drill these holes once the engine is installed. Van's suggested solution is to remove the engine with the mount, drill the holes and reinstall the engine/mount combo. This might be even more fun! Did any of you run into any problems with the hole locations (did you have to move any of them to a different location) once the engine is installed? In an earlier conversation with Van's I suggested moving the Mixture firewall cable hole a bit to the left to clear the Facet pump backing plate, but they told me not to do that. So what is a poor first time builder to do? Help guys. I purchased the control cables from Van's in the Firewall Forward Kit. John RV9-A N3294C Firewall Forward ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:31 PM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude is 1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold Kitlog Builder's Software www.kitlog.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Well, having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us neophytes. I do have to tell a story on myself though. Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above the runway. I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the fuel farm. But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying skills. I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but 1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? W do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:14 PM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Firewall control cable hole locations --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" John, Have you considered using a Greenlee hole punch? You will probably get away with not having to remove the engine this way. However, removing the engine/mount combination in not a big deal if you have an engine hoist. I would recommend not torqueing the engine mount nuts until you're sure you won't be removing the engine any more. Pat Hatch -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B. Szantho Subject: RV-List: Re: Firewall control cable hole locations --> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" I am ready to install the engine mount and engine on my RV9-A (O-320 D1A, standard Lycoming, no special additions); however I would like to drill the firewall holes for the Throttle, Carbheat, and Mixture cables. Van's suggested that I should install the engine first, because the DWG 19 depicted hole locations might change. It sure would be a big pain to drill these holes once the engine is installed. Van's suggested solution is to remove the engine with the mount, drill the holes and reinstall the engine/mount combo. This might be even more fun! Did any of you run into any problems with the hole locations (did you have to move any of them to a different location) once the engine is installed? In an earlier conversation with Van's I suggested moving the Mixture firewall cable hole a bit to the left to clear the Facet pump backing plate, but they told me not to do that. So what is a poor first time builder to do? Help guys. I purchased the control cables from Van's in the Firewall Forward Kit. John RV9-A N3294C Firewall Forward ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:45 PM PST US From: FLYNBYK@cs.com Subject: RV-List: Tail for RV6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: FLYNBYK@cs.com Does anyone out there have a tail for an RV6 or 6A for sale. Bob Gorman/CA flynbyk@cs.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:51 PM PST US From: John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Wrong! Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. John Paul Besing wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude is >1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >Kitlog Builder's Software >www.kitlog.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >Subject: RV-List: Sedona > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >Well, > >having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >neophytes. > >I do have to tell a story on myself though. > >Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above >the runway. > >I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the fuel >farm. > >But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >skills. > >I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but >1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? > >W > >do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:54 PM PST US From: Dan DeNeal Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail for RV6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal I have most of the empanage pieces but not all. What are you looking for? Dan FLYNBYK@cs.com wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: FLYNBYK@cs.com Does anyone out there have a tail for an RV6 or 6A for sale. Bob Gorman/CA flynbyk@cs.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:48 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > > Wrong! > > Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an > instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. > > John > What is your reference? The chart here https://aviationtoolbox.org/Members/kyler/tools/map_explorer?image=-1055751%2C-219899%2C50&scale=50&selected.y=556&selected.x=266 shows no surface based class E at Sedona. It is not unusual for an airport with instrument approaches to have the Class E stop at 700 feet as at Sedona. Flagstaff, on the other hand, does show surface based Class E. Clear of clouds would be legal at Sedona. The question would be if surface clearances could be maintained. There is the subjective question of whether or not that area is congested enough that one needs to be 1,000 feet above obstacles or just 500 feet or maybe that does not apply because one is in the process of landing. do not archive Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:23 PM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: *EFIS / INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE* --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Sorry, I was off on the price of the EIFS... I will take $8500... http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: RV-List: *EFIS / INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE* --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" I have some stuff for sale that some of you might be interested in... NEW: Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS w/GPS Module - $9000 USED: Airspeed - SOLD Altimeter - SOLD VSI - $95 G-Meter - $240 Needle & Ball - $195 More info and photos here: http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm -Bill ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:28 PM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" This should be on a Private pilot training website, not on the RV list, but I will jump in. I do not have a sectional here at work, but I looked at an online chart at Aeroplanner.com website. It looks to me like Sedona is under class E airspace. I don't see a Class E surface area magenta segmented circle, which would take class E to the ground, nor do I see a shaded magenta circle which would take class E down to 700 AGL. So I think that Paul is correct, and you are mistaken. Based on what I see, and I am not sure of anything except death and taxes, The airspace at Sedona below 1200 ft AGL is class G airspace. That makes VFR 1 mile Clear of clouds. All that said, unless I was looking at a current sectional, I would not bet my ticket on it. And then of course I would still be skeptical. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal CFII Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona > --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > > Wrong! > > Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an > instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. > > John > > > Paul Besing wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >> >>Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude >>is >>1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >>you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. >> >>Paul Besing >>RV-6A Sold >>Kitlog Builder's Software >>www.kitlog.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >>To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >>Subject: RV-List: Sedona >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North >> >>Well, >> >>having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >>commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >>neophytes. >> >>I do have to tell a story on myself though. >> >>Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >>much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >>realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft >>above >>the runway. >> >>I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the >>fuel >>farm. >> >>But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >>skills. >> >>I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but >>1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? >> >>W >> >>do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:18 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > > > This should be on a Private pilot training website, not on the RV list, > but > I will jump in. > > I do not have a sectional here at work, but I looked at an online chart at > Aeroplanner.com website. It looks to me like Sedona is under class E > airspace. I don't see a Class E surface area magenta segmented circle, > which would take class E to the ground, nor do I see a shaded magenta > circle > which would take class E down to 700 AGL. So I think that Paul is > correct, > and you are mistaken. Based on what I see, and I am not sure of anything > except death and taxes, The airspace at Sedona below 1200 ft AGL is class > G > airspace. That makes VFR 1 mile Clear of clouds. > Doug is correct of course. The class E at Sedona starts at 1200 feet instead of 700 as I said. Moral is if you are on an instrument approach and break out at 700 feet or so, don't be surprised to encounter legal VFR traffic. do not archive Larry Pardue ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:00 PM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I'm sorry, John, no it is not class E. If you look at a sectional, you will see that there is no dashed magenta line, which means class E to the surface. The vignette that Sedona is located in is within a blue shaded vignette, which denotes class E begins at 1200' AGL. Since the original poster was talking about 500 AGL (above the airport) the airspace at 500 feet AGL is class G, which during the day, is 1 mile clear of clouds. Had it been at night, then standard cloud clearances would apply. Now, if you take the argument to the valley below, one would have to look at the contour lines to see if the area around the airport (not directly above) to see if in fact 500' above the airport was actually 1200' above the valley. I don't have a topo map available currently, but I would guess it is about 500-700' lower than the airport. Unless we can determine that at any point he was at least 1200' agl, he remained in Class G. Paul Besing CFII do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Wrong! Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. John Paul Besing wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude is >1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >Kitlog Builder's Software >www.kitlog.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >Subject: RV-List: Sedona > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >Well, > >having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >neophytes. > >I do have to tell a story on myself though. > >Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above >the runway. > >I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the fuel >farm. > >But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >skills. > >I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but >1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? > >W > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:44 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV-4 air vent From: Doug Weiler --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler Greetings Listers: For the RV-4 folks (there must be a couple still around): I really need to increase the fresh air ventilation in my -4. Right now I am taking fresh air off the back baffle and running it through Van's mixing box into the cabin. Plenty of fresh air when in the "cold" mode, but since the air flows through the top of the cowling first, it is about 10 degrees above ambient. Not good on a hot day. I want to install a NACA vent under the right cheek venting up to a fresh air eyeball mounted under the right lower portion of the panel. I have a fair amount of experience in knowing that there are a lot of weird pressure areas around the RV-4 cowl and canopy. Have any of you mounted a NACA vent in this area on the RHS?? Does it work OK??? BTW, I have one of Larry Vetterman's little rotating scoop things for the rear seat pax and it works very well on the RHS of the canopy skirt. But mounting a similar vent for the front pilot is useless (I had one located here on a previous RV-4 and it suck air out!!) Thanks Doug Weiler N722DW, 200hrs ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:13 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail for RV6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley I've got misc small pieces and most of the fiberglass... Darrell FLYNBYK@cs.com wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: FLYNBYK@cs.com Does anyone out there have a tail for an RV6 or 6A for sale. Bob Gorman/CA flynbyk@cs.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:31 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Spinner Help --> RV-List message posted by: 6/21/2005 Hello RV Listers, I am seeking your help. I want to purchase a replacement carbon fiber spinner for my KIS TR-1 airplane. In the past I have visited the web site for a company that manufactures such replacement spinners for type certificated airplanes. I feel that I can adapt one of them to my needs. My problem is that I cannot relocate that web site. Several hours of googling comes up empty because the word spinners is so commonly used. If any of you can come up with that web site I would appreciate it. Please email me directly as I do not subscribe to the RV list. Many thanks for your help and I apologize for the off subject posting. OC <> ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:22 PM PST US From: John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Well, you are all right, and I am wrong. Paul, I apologize. Interesting lesson for me. After 36 years of flying, and 12 years a CFII, I find that I do not fully understand one of the rules. Though, I must admit that I let the instructor stuff expire two years ago. But, a good lesson none-the-less. I am a little distressed that I might be on an instrument approach, and barely break out of the clouds, and encounter VFR traffic. I thought I understood the theory of the rules, but clearly I was wrong. Sorry for a bad posting. John Huft Paul Besing wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >I'm sorry, John, no it is not class E. If you look at a sectional, you will >see that there is no dashed magenta line, which means class E to the >surface. The vignette that Sedona is located in is within a blue shaded >vignette, which denotes class E begins at 1200' AGL. Since the original >poster was talking about 500 AGL (above the airport) the airspace at 500 >feet AGL is class G, which during the day, is 1 mile clear of clouds. Had >it been at night, then standard cloud clearances would apply. > >Now, if you take the argument to the valley below, one would have to look at >the contour lines to see if the area around the airport (not directly above) >to see if in fact 500' above the airport was actually 1200' above the >valley. I don't have a topo map available currently, but I would guess it >is about 500-700' lower than the airport. Unless we can determine that at >any point he was at least 1200' agl, he remained in Class G. > >Paul Besing >CFII > >do not archive > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona > > >--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > >Wrong! > >Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an >instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. > >John > > >Paul Besing wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >> >>Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude >> >> >is > > >>1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >>you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. >> >>Paul Besing >>RV-6A Sold >>Kitlog Builder's Software >>www.kitlog.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >>To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >>Subject: RV-List: Sedona >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North >> >>Well, >> >>having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >>commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >>neophytes. >> >>I do have to tell a story on myself though. >> >>Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >>much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >>realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above >>the runway. >> >>I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the >> >> >fuel > > >>farm. >> >>But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >>skills. >> >>I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but >>1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? >> >>W >> >>do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:05 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 air vent --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > I really need to increase the fresh air ventilation in my -4. Right now I > am taking fresh air off the back baffle and running it through Van's mixing > box into the cabin. Plenty of fresh air when in the "cold" mode, but since > the air flows through the top of the cowling first, it is about 10 degrees > above ambient. Not good on a hot day. Doug, I've seen a couple of installations where they run the 2" scat tube up the center of the engine and capture air close to the cooling inlets. I wonder if this would reduce the 10 degree increase you're getting. I can send you a pic of such an install if you like, I plan to copy it myself. > I want to install a NACA vent under the right cheek venting up to a fresh > air eyeball mounted under the right lower portion of the panel. I have a > fair amount of experience in knowing that there are a lot of weird pressure > areas around the RV-4 cowl and canopy. Have any of you mounted a NACA vent > in this area on the RHS?? Does it work OK??? Would like to hear responses on this as well. > BTW, I have one of Larry Vetterman's little rotating scoop things for the > rear seat pax and it works very well on the RHS of the canopy skirt. But > mounting a similar vent for the front pilot is useless (I had one located > here on a previous RV-4 and it suck air out!!) Heard that before from many builders. Cheers, Randy Lervold RV-3 #11375, finish kit www.rv-3.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:57 PM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Don't sweat it. I quite often find myself giving out not so correct information to my students. I'll get Army regs mixed up with civilian regs, etc, etc. You had the right idea. There are provisions in place for separating IFR traffic from VFR traffic, which is why you have transition areas from 1200, down to 700, then to the surface, for airports that have more IFR traffic. But in this case, Sedona doesn't apply. When the FAA does surveys, they look at the number of IFR operations, terrain, etc, to determine if what kind of controlled airspace (e.g. Class E) needs to be implemented. Unfortunately, it requires a close call or even a mid air to determine that they need to make a change (sometimes). Das Fed, no offense as usual. My guess is there are not enough IFR operations into Sedona to justify the airspace. Other than tourism, there isn't much commerce in Sedona. I guess they figure 90% of all flights in there are by fair weather $100 hamburger flights. Personally, I like flying IMC, but into Sedona isn't my idea of enjoyable IMC flying. The whole reason why we go there is the scenery is so spectacular. So, to keep this RV related, for those of you have not made the trek, next time you are in AZ you need to go there. Paul Besing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Well, you are all right, and I am wrong. Paul, I apologize. Interesting lesson for me. After 36 years of flying, and 12 years a CFII, I find that I do not fully understand one of the rules. Though, I must admit that I let the instructor stuff expire two years ago. But, a good lesson none-the-less. I am a little distressed that I might be on an instrument approach, and barely break out of the clouds, and encounter VFR traffic. I thought I understood the theory of the rules, but clearly I was wrong. Sorry for a bad posting. John Huft Paul Besing wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >I'm sorry, John, no it is not class E. If you look at a sectional, you will >see that there is no dashed magenta line, which means class E to the >surface. The vignette that Sedona is located in is within a blue shaded >vignette, which denotes class E begins at 1200' AGL. Since the original >poster was talking about 500 AGL (above the airport) the airspace at 500 >feet AGL is class G, which during the day, is 1 mile clear of clouds. Had >it been at night, then standard cloud clearances would apply. > >Now, if you take the argument to the valley below, one would have to look at >the contour lines to see if the area around the airport (not directly above) >to see if in fact 500' above the airport was actually 1200' above the >valley. I don't have a topo map available currently, but I would guess it >is about 500-700' lower than the airport. Unless we can determine that at >any point he was at least 1200' agl, he remained in Class G. > >Paul Besing >CFII > >do not archive > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona > > >--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > >Wrong! > >Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an >instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. > >John > > >Paul Besing wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >> >>Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude >> >> >is > > >>1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >>you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. >> >>Paul Besing >>RV-6A Sold >>Kitlog Builder's Software >>www.kitlog.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >>To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >>Subject: RV-List: Sedona >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North >> >>Well, >> >>having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >>commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >>neophytes. >> >>I do have to tell a story on myself though. >> >>Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >>much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >>realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft above >>the runway. >> >>I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the >> >> >fuel > > >>farm. >> >>But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >>skills. >> >>I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl but >>1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? >> >>W >> >>do not archive >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 air vent From: Doug Weiler --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler Yes, send me the photo. I'd be curious. Doug On 6/21/05 8:24 PM, "Randy Lervold" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > >> I really need to increase the fresh air ventilation in my -4. Right now I >> am taking fresh air off the back baffle and running it through Van's > mixing >> box into the cabin. Plenty of fresh air when in the "cold" mode, but > since >> the air flows through the top of the cowling first, it is about 10 degrees >> above ambient. Not good on a hot day. > > Doug, I've seen a couple of installations where they run the 2" scat tube up > the center of the engine and capture air close to the cooling inlets. I > wonder if this would reduce the 10 degree increase you're getting. I can > send you a pic of such an install if you like, I plan to copy it myself. > >> I want to install a NACA vent under the right cheek venting up to a fresh >> air eyeball mounted under the right lower portion of the panel. I have a >> fair amount of experience in knowing that there are a lot of weird > pressure >> areas around the RV-4 cowl and canopy. Have any of you mounted a NACA > vent >> in this area on the RHS?? Does it work OK??? > > Would like to hear responses on this as well. > >> BTW, I have one of Larry Vetterman's little rotating scoop things for the >> rear seat pax and it works very well on the RHS of the canopy skirt. But >> mounting a similar vent for the front pilot is useless (I had one located >> here on a previous RV-4 and it suck air out!!) > > Heard that before from many builders. > > Cheers, > Randy Lervold > RV-3 #11375, finish kit > www.rv-3.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:40 PM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail for RV6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve I have most skins and some ribs. I believe that a friend has a spare HS that is already built. Mark FLYNBYK@cs.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: FLYNBYK@cs.com > >Does anyone out there have a tail for an RV6 or 6A for sale. > >Bob Gorman/CA >flynbyk@cs.com > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:56 PM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: RV-List: Spinner Help --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley I own and operate Carbon Fiber Composites and manufacture aircraft parts for experimentals using carbon fiber. I have several molds for spinners and back plates. Let me know what you need and I'll quote you a price. BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 304-562-6800 home How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:27 PM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: RV-List: bakerocb@cox.net --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley I own and operate Carbon Fiber Composites and manufacture aircraft parts for experimentals using carbon fiber. I have several molds for spinners and back plates. Let me know what you need and I'll quote you a price. BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 304-562-6800 home How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:32 PM PST US From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 air vent --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" Doug, I get my air for the front seat from the front of the cowling as Randy described. I measure about 3 degrees higher than outside using this method. Much improved over the rear baffle pickup point. For the rear seat, I retrofitted an under the wing naca style similar to the rv-8. Very nice air flow and little extra noise. Pictures if needed. Ivan Haecker -4 1155 hrs. S. Cen. TX (where it's hot) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: RV-List: RV-4 air vent > --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler > > Greetings Listers: > > For the RV-4 folks (there must be a couple still around): > > I really need to increase the fresh air ventilation in my -4. Right now I > am taking fresh air off the back baffle and running it through Van's mixing > box into the cabin. Plenty of fresh air when in the "cold" mode, but since > the air flows through the top of the cowling first, it is about 10 degrees > above ambient. Not good on a hot day. > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:32 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RV-List: Spinner bulkhead indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" My Hartzell prop came back from a reseal job today. When I went to reinstall the spinner, the screw holes in the forward bulkhead no longer ling up with those in the spinner. Can the forward part of the prop hub, where the bulkhead is mounted, be re-indexed so things line up again? How? Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:29 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Class G or Class E or IFR or VFR Sure sounds a like case where a simpler set of rules are required so we don't need a FAA lawyer to fly into a airport. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sedona > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > > Don't sweat it. I quite often find myself giving out not so correct > information to my students. I'll get Army regs mixed up with civilian > regs, > etc, etc. > > You had the right idea. There are provisions in place for separating IFR > traffic from VFR traffic, which is why you have transition areas from > 1200, > down to 700, then to the surface, for airports that have more IFR traffic. > But in this case, Sedona doesn't apply. When the FAA does surveys, they > look at the number of IFR operations, terrain, etc, to determine if what > kind of controlled airspace (e.g. Class E) needs to be implemented. > Unfortunately, it requires a close call or even a mid air to determine > that > they need to make a change (sometimes). Das Fed, no offense as usual. > > My guess is there are not enough IFR operations into Sedona to justify the > airspace. Other than tourism, there isn't much commerce in Sedona. I > guess > they figure 90% of all flights in there are by fair weather $100 hamburger > flights. Personally, I like flying IMC, but into Sedona isn't my idea of > enjoyable IMC flying. The whole reason why we go there is the scenery is > so > spectacular. > > So, to keep this RV related, for those of you have not made the trek, next > time you are in AZ you need to go there. > > Paul Besing > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona > > > --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > > Well, you are all right, and I am wrong. Paul, I apologize. > > Interesting lesson for me. After 36 years of flying, and 12 years a > CFII, I find that I do not fully understand one of the rules. Though, I > must admit that I let the instructor stuff expire two years ago. But, a > good lesson none-the-less. > > I am a little distressed that I might be on an instrument approach, and > barely break out of the clouds, and encounter VFR traffic. I thought I > understood the theory of the rules, but clearly I was wrong. > > Sorry for a bad posting. > > John Huft > > > Paul Besing wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >> >>I'm sorry, John, no it is not class E. If you look at a sectional, you > will >>see that there is no dashed magenta line, which means class E to the >>surface. The vignette that Sedona is located in is within a blue shaded >>vignette, which denotes class E begins at 1200' AGL. Since the original >>poster was talking about 500 AGL (above the airport) the airspace at 500 >>feet AGL is class G, which during the day, is 1 mile clear of clouds. Had >>it been at night, then standard cloud clearances would apply. >> >>Now, if you take the argument to the valley below, one would have to look > at >>the contour lines to see if the area around the airport (not directly > above) >>to see if in fact 500' above the airport was actually 1200' above the >>valley. I don't have a topo map available currently, but I would guess it >>is about 500-700' lower than the airport. Unless we can determine that at >>any point he was at least 1200' agl, he remained in Class G. >> >>Paul Besing >>CFII >> >>do not archive >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Sedona >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft >> >>Wrong! >> >>Sedona is in Class E airspace, as usual when the airport has an >>instrument approach. That means the VFR minimums are 1000 ft and 3 miles. >> >>John >> >> >>Paul Besing wrote: >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >>> >>>Yes, you were VFR, because the airspace is Class G. VFR at that altitude >>> >>> >>is >> >> >>>1 mile clear of clouds. So as long as you had at least one mile vis, and >>>you stayed clear of the clouds, you were VFR. >>> >>>Paul Besing >>>RV-6A Sold >>>Kitlog Builder's Software >>>www.kitlog.com >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wheeler North >>>To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' >>>Subject: RV-List: Sedona >>> >>> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North >>> >>>Well, >>> >>>having landed at SEZ a bunch of times I do have to agree with Paul, the >>>commuters always land uphill and takeoff downhill, which messes up us >>>neophytes. >>> >>>I do have to tell a story on myself though. >>> >>>Landing there a few years ago, it was such a pretty day, I was having so >>>much fun enjoying the scenery there I got to mid-short final before >>>realizing that I needed some more downhill as I was still at '1000 ft > above >>>the runway. >>> >>>I still landed short of the '2k marker and made the turnoff just by the >>> >>> >>fuel >> >> >>>farm. >>> >>>But that is only a testiment to the RV's abilites... not of my flying >>>skills. >>> >>>I have also been there when the ceiling above the runway was 500ft agl >>>but >>>1400 agl of the surrounding terrain. So, was it VFR legal to land there? >>> >>>W >>> >>>do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >