---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/25/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:32 AM - For Sale Prop and Vac System (linda) 2. 11:09 AM - Subject: [FlyLycoming] Brake Line Incident Photos () 3. 11:51 AM - Re: Tapping holes in the canopy frame (HCRV6@aol.com) 4. 01:42 PM - Re: Fuel vapors in cockpit (Bob) 5. 02:49 PM - Re: Dynon (Duane Bentley) 6. 02:55 PM - AN470AD4 "oops" (alan@reichertech.com) 7. 03:13 PM - Re: AN470AD4 "oops" (Charlie Kuss) 8. 03:14 PM - Re: Dynon not for IFR? (Hal Kempthorne) 9. 03:42 PM - Re: AN470AD4 "oops" (David Burton) 10. 06:07 PM - Re: AN470AD4 "oops" (alan@reichertech.com) 11. 06:13 PM - Transition Training (Jim Bean) 12. 06:30 PM - Re: AN470AD4 "oops" (alan@reichertech.com) 13. 07:54 PM - Intercoms (Doug Weiler) 14. 10:27 PM - Compass Swinging (Vincent Welch) 15. 11:25 PM - Re: Low oil pressure event (sarg314) 16. 11:43 PM - Brake line incident. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:28 AM PST US From: "linda" Subject: RV-List: For Sale Prop and Vac System --> RV-List message posted by: "linda" I have a "Props Inc" wood prop [68X67] with spinner, spacer, bolts etc. Prop was on a RV6A with O320-E2A [150 hp], prop has less than 20 hours and is in new condition, I fly in the Pacific NW in the rain so I needed to replace with metal. Price $900 OBO Vac system, pump, filters, 2 DGs, VSI, AI, etc. Price $700 OBO Call 541.826.5973 or email for details Thanks Mike ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:42 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Subject: [FlyLycoming] Brake Line Incident Photos --> RV-List message posted by: I would never use plastic or aluminum break lines near the caliper. I used a #2 hose like this. http://www.raceplumbing.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=213 I ran the braided line all the way from the caliper to the firewall. You could run a shorter piece of braided hose than transition half way up the gear leg to aluminum, but less joints and connections are better. The down side if any is a little more weight and cost. I had mine made up at an industrial hose house that had the proper 37deg fittings. The cost for the two lines was not much. Also before the fittings where installed I slipped a short piece of clear vinyl over the braided line. This was to avoid any abrasion of the hose rubbing the wheel pants or bottom of the gear leg fairing. Going for 1000 hours and 7 years and no problem. Also for maintenance when you move your caliper, the flex line allows the caliper to set it a side without disconnecting it. Also people who know more about the subject state the Mobile 1 synthetic ATF works well and has double the flash point temp. Check archives under Re : Brake Fluid. The down side is there are other additives that are not really needed for a brake system, however they have no negative affect on the brakes, as some claim it worked well for them for years. There is better Mil spec brake fluid, MIL-H 83282 as reported on this list, but only comes in 4 gal quantities. It has twice the flash point of the older MIL-H5606 fluid. It would be nice if Van or someone who sells parts would buy MIL-H 83282 to sell in small amounts to builders. We can always make our RV's better and safer. No need to use 65 year old MIL-H5606 brake fluid formulas when MIL-H 83282 is available (kind of). I don't know if the two MIL specs are compatitable. Last DON'T ride the BRAKES!. The best way to do it is check speed to a crawl than let them go *completely* (feet off) and let the speed build up, than check speed again, repeat as necessary. Just dragging the brakes continuously will give you a brake fire real fast. The process of brake / release allows some brake cooling. It is all energy and it has to go some where. Remember, also those cool looking low drag wheel fairings are not letting the brakes get much cool air. Cheers George >Subject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer David Carter wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ed Anderson >To: Rotary motors in aircraft >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos > > >Yes, John - luck and a quick acting nephew {:>). The only answer I can come up with is that the aluminum line suffered a fatigue fracture which weakened the tube and the hydraulic pressure finally blew out the chunk. The line has a loop to provide flexing as the caliper moves in and out - but, flexing aluminum is not know for a long life. In all fairness, there are many RVs flying with this configuration - so the break might be attributed to my installation (stressing the line when I put the loop in it), material weakness, some damage I did not notice, etc. Had over 300 landings before the failure. > >Ed > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Slade > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:09 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Line Incident Photos > > > Wow, Ed! > You're luck the airplane wasn't consumed. > My question - how did that big chunk get blown out of the brake line? > Regards, > John > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:58 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Brake Line Incident Photos > > > For those interested (and may not have seen them) , here are a few photos of my brake line fire incident. > > Big chunk got blown out of brake line as can be seen from Brakelines.jpg photo. Effect of resin burning seen on wheel pant photos. Once the line broke, the next time I depressed the brake pedal, a fireball from the wheel to over the wing resulted from spraying the hydraulic fluid over the hot brake assembly. The flash point of the fluid is only 240F! I am going to investigate some stuff with a bit higher flash point {:>) > > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > Do you have a wb site were the photos are? I don't see a link to them, maybe I just missed it. As you know attached photos will be stripped form the RV-List. I would like to see them as I have been using aluminum brakes lines for 16 year on my RV-6. Jerry --------------------------------- Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:40 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Tapping holes in the canopy frame --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Mark: I used a #36 drill and a taper tap, the taper tap is easier to start and the #36 drill gives a very slightly snugger fit for the screws. At least that's my impression. I also felt that the 5/32 hole was not adequate for expansion of the plexi over a wide range of temperatures so I used 1/4 inch holes and inserted a spacer of soft 1/4" OD plastic tubing in each hole. I also dipped each screw in Lexol as I inserted them to hopefully prevent water leaks. If you choose to go this route you will need to use #6 Tinnerman countersunk washers. I'm no expert so you'll probably get better advice from the list. No cracks in the first 97 hours however (KNOCK ON WOOD!) Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 97.6 hours ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:28 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel vapors in cockpit --> RV-List message posted by: Bob I have a matt finish on my RV and I use Lemon Pledge to clean it up with out having to use water. But, the Pledge comes off as soon as avgas hits it. Then I have light spots were the Pledge is gone. I have noticed that after aerobatics, I have streaks from both vents from the bottom fuselage to the top of the wing where fuel has been vented out of the vent lines. Of course, I can smell avgas during aerobatics. Why this happens I don't know? Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:33 PM PST US From: "Duane Bentley" Subject: RV-List: Re: Dynon --> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" I have about 110 hrs on my RV6, and around 10 hrs IMC with the Dynon. I flew back from Cape Cod to Cincinnati, Ohio last month, with half of that either between solid cloud layers or IMC. I have the STec 30 AP which displays turn and bank plus slip along with altitude hold, a regular analog airspeed gage, and the Rocky Mountain microencoder. My scan includes constant cross check between the Dynon attitude and the STec. I've not had any surprises. I basically have triple redundancy on airspeed and double on altitude. Without question, I find I have to stay current to fly IFR in this plane, and fly a couple of 1-2 hours a month under the hood. I also wouldn't fly IMC if the STec wasn't functioning. I added the chart view function to my MX20 / GX 60 / SL30 package which works well, although it was pricey. Make sure you have the right chart loaded, because trying to fly and change approaches at the last minute can be a major challenge. I also put in the WSI satellite weather into my MX20 and find it to be absolutely great for long Xcntry in IMC. I was telling NY center where I wanted to go and when I wanted to turn, and found it to be right on the money working around storms. Cruising between 8000 and 10000 feet out and back, with 170 - 175 KTAS, I had several controllers in the North East asking to tell them again what type equipment I was flying. After saying RV6 / G, I frequently got the question asking how many engines it had. Duane Bentley N515DB West Chester, OH ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:05 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: AN470AD4 "oops" From: alan@reichertech.com --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com Working on the VS skeleton for my -8, I managed to end up with an air gap between the main spar and top rib. Drilling out the two rivets (AN470AD4-4) resulted in holes that are a bit larger than an AD4 rivet. Is it acceptable to redrill these two holes and use AD6 rivets? -- Alan Reichert Priv, Inst, SEL RV-8 N927AR (reserved) Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:12 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: AN470AD4 "oops" --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Alan, Are your holes to large to use AD470-5 (5/32" dia) rivets? I would try using the -5 rivets if possible. Using a -6 rivet will leave you with less than 2 D hole to edge distance on the rib flange. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com > > >Working on the VS skeleton for my -8, I managed to end up with an >air gap between the main spar and top rib. Drilling out the two >rivets (AN470AD4-4) resulted in holes that are a bit larger than >an AD4 rivet. Is it acceptable to redrill these two holes and use >AD6 rivets? > >-- >Alan Reichert >Priv, Inst, SEL >RV-8 N927AR (reserved) >Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:39 PM PST US From: Hal Kempthorne Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon not for IFR? --> RV-List message posted by: Hal Kempthorne A long time ago in the '80s I was flying a rented cherokee and the attitude indicator began showing a sharp left bank. I double checked with my Dynon and it said I was level. No, wait a moment, I checked with my turn coordinator and it said I was level. Spinning wheel gauges are like leisure suits, way out of style but some folks still just love them. In time we'll see that gauges fail about 100 times more frequently than Dynons. hal ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:56 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: AN470AD4 "oops" --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" You might try squeezing a longer rivet in your squeezer a tad to fatten it up some before you install it, for a good fit. Depends on how much larger the hole is of course... Good luck, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: AN470AD4 "oops" > --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com > > > Working on the VS skeleton for my -8, I managed to end up with an > air gap between the main spar and top rib. Drilling out the two > rivets (AN470AD4-4) resulted in holes that are a bit larger than > an AD4 rivet. Is it acceptable to redrill these two holes and use > AD6 rivets? > > -- > Alan Reichert > Priv, Inst, SEL > RV-8 N927AR (reserved) > Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:46 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: AN470AD4 "oops" From: alan@reichertech.com --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com Charlie, The -5 would work, but I have not been able to find a source for them. The -5s I've found are flush head, all others jump from 4 to 6. Do you have a source for these? Another fellow suggested fattening up a longer rivet, but the holes ended up enlarged to a point that I'm not comfortable with this method. I apparently was a bit hamfisted with the rivet removal tool and elongated the holes slightly, so they will have to be redrilled to the next size up. I believe 5s will work if I can get them. - Alan Subject: Re: AN470AD4 "oops" From: Charlie Kuss (chaztuna@adelphia.net) --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Alan, Are your holes to large to use AD470-5 (5/32" dia) rivets? I would try using the -5 rivets if possible. Using a -6 rivet will leave you with less than 2 D hole to edge distance on the rib flange. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com > > >Working on the VS skeleton for my -8, I managed to end up with an >air gap between the main spar and top rib. Drilling out the two >rivets (AN470AD4-4) resulted in holes that are a bit larger than >an AD4 rivet. Is it acceptable to redrill these two holes and use >AD6 rivets? > >-- >Alan Reichert >Priv, Inst, SEL >RV-8 N927AR (reserved) >Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:30 PM PST US From: Jim Bean Subject: RV-List: Transition Training --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Bean Does anyone know how to reach the instructor who gives RV transition training in the Conn/NY area? I have finished my -8 and am chicken to fly it without some training. I am based on Long Island New York. Jim Bean N99JA - signed off. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:33 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: AN470AD4 "oops" From: alan@reichertech.com --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com Ignore the previous request for source. Poking around and changing my search method, I found a few sources and have some AD5s on order. Thanks for your inputs, folks. Off to work on some other parts while I wait for this order to arrive! - Alan > > Charlie, > > The -5 would work, but I have not been able to find a source for them. > The -5s I've found are flush head, all others jump from 4 to 6. Do you > have a source for these? > > Another fellow suggested fattening up a longer rivet, but the holes ended > up enlarged to a point that I'm not comfortable with this method. I > apparently was a bit hamfisted with the rivet removal tool and elongated > the holes slightly, so they will have to be redrilled to the next size up. > I believe 5s will work if I can get them. > > - Alan > > > Subject: Re: AN470AD4 "oops" > From: Charlie Kuss (chaztuna@adelphia.net) > Date: Sat Jun 25 - 3:13 PM > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > Alan, > Are your holes to large to use AD470-5 (5/32" dia) rivets? I would try > using the -5 rivets if possible. Using a -6 rivet will leave you with less > than 2 D hole to edge distance on the rib flange. > Charlie Kuss > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com >> >> >>Working on the VS skeleton for my -8, I managed to end up with an >>air gap between the main spar and top rib. Drilling out the two >>rivets (AN470AD4-4) resulted in holes that are a bit larger than >>an AD4 rivet. Is it acceptable to redrill these two holes and use >>AD6 rivets? Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:59 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Intercoms From: Doug Weiler --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler Greetings all: My RV-4 currently has a Sigtronics SP-400N intercom installed. It supposedly is designed for high noise environments but I don't think it is as effective as some other intercoms I have flown with. I am using DC ENC headsets and my comm. transmission are reported loud and clear so I feel the microphone is not the problem. I have been impressed with the PS Engineering ICs in other RV aircraft. They have a high noise version (PM1200). Does anyone have any other experience with PS Intercoms? I am thinking about switching. Thanks Doug Weiler N722DW, RV-4 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:49 PM PST US From: "Vincent Welch" Subject: RV-List: Compass Swinging --> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" Gentlemen, I have a Precision vertical compass card. I need to swing my compass and have misplaced the documents that came with the compass. There are two adjustments at the bottom, one for N-S and the other for E-W. Can anyone tell me which is which? Vince ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:08 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: RV-List: Low oil pressure event --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I was not aware there is an oil pressure relief valve. Where is it? GMC wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: GMC > >Hi Rick > >Here is my guess, - Oil pressure relief valve opens to bypass oil during >T/O and you have a foreign object lodged in valve assembly causing the >valve to stick open or partially open bypassing oil when you reduce the >RPM to idle. This bypass causes abnormally low pressure. The valve must >be closing completely on shut down with zero pressure or the temperature >change so your idle pressure is normal on your next engine start. >Check & clean pressure relief valve. > >George in Langley BC > > -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:38 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Brake line incident. --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" I just had a discussion about this very thing with Mike Burlingham who's RV-6A has been flying for about 6 years now. He had some fatigue cracking on one side due to the line flexing and fixed it rather quickly and inexpensively as follows: 1) Go to your local autoparts store and pick up two flexible lines made for grease guns. These hoses are good for 3000 PSI and have male pipe thread fittings on each end. 2) Procure two elbows for the caliper end, one end of the elbow has female threads to connect with the grease gun hose and the other end has male threads that mate with the brake caliper. Checking Wicks catalog it looks like an AN914-2D fitting would work for this, check the grease gun end fittings for size before you order though (I haven't done this yet so I haven't checked to see exactly what the grease gun hose fittings are size wise). Mike mentioned something about the grease gun hose fittings being 1/8 inch so you might need a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer like an AN912-1D to put in the elbow that the grease gun hose fits into. 3) The last thing you need is a male flare fitting (aluminum tube end) to female pipe thread adapter (that the grease gun hose fits into). Wicks part number 2405-4-2 looks like it would work for this (if Mikes comment on the grease gun hose fittings being 1/8 inch are correct). So.....what he has done is bring the aluminum tube down the gear leg close to the bottom end....into the flared aluminum tube fitting-to-pipe fitting adapter for the grease gun hose... grease gun hose bridges the gap to the caliper and goes into an adapter fitting to the caliper. He didn't elaborate on how he fastened the aluminum tube and adapter to the gear leg (and I couldn't tell from looking cause he had his wheelpants installed when I saw the airplane) but I thought a hose clamp or something similar maybe. Mike has done one side of his airplane and had good luck with it so he plans to convert the other. I think I'll give it a try too, the fatiguing aluminum tube doesn't sound like something I want on my plane. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Finishing and Finishing and....Finishing!!!!