Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - Re: Cowl mounting (Alex Peterson)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Trio Avionics Altitude Hold Report (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Beautiful RV-6 for sale (Jeff Dowling)
4. 05:53 AM - Re: Beautiful RV-6 for sale (Jeff Dowling)
5. 06:12 AM - Re: Cowl mounting (Dan Checkoway)
6. 06:20 AM - Hangar Rental (Nigel Goad)
7. 06:28 AM - Re: Cowl mounting (linn walters)
8. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
9. 12:47 PM - New transponder certification - check (LML Klingmuller)
10. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (Mickey Coggins)
11. 01:15 PM - Re: Hangar Rental (Mickey Coggins)
12. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (BPA)
13. 01:21 PM - Re: Any RVers in Italy or Germany? (d-heun@web.de)
14. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (Scott Bilinski)
15. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (Nuffer, Chuck)
16. 02:57 PM - Re: Hangar Rental (LarryRobertHelming)
17. 04:00 PM - Re: New transponder certification - check (Mike Robertson)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> You are right about allowing about 3/16" for the engine sag.
>
Not always the case - I have 633 hours in four years with no measurable sag.
Alex Peterson
RV6A N66AP
Maple Grove, MN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Trio Avionics Altitude Hold Report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Great report Wheeler.
I have been hold out waiting for this to come out. Their roll axis unit
is quite remarkable and I own 2 of them.
Keep us posted on the testing. These guys are delivering cool units that
the certified guys wish they had.
Best,
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North
'"@roxy.matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Trio Avionics Altitude Hold Report
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
Folks,
I have been doing some alpha and beta testing for the dynamic trio at
Trio
Avionics with their new altitude hold.
This unit seems to be very nice, doing much the same as the AltTrac, but
with many more feedback and control options.
One really nice feature it has the ability to rotate an encoder knob and
change the altitude by about 5' per click.
The LCD display is also the engage button and provides various data such
as
"ready", "alt hold", "alt adj up","alt adj dwn", "first floor -
bluelight
special", etc.
The unit has some safety features that are stunning. It will kick out
the
servo and give you an aural and visual alarm if you exceed servo travel,
clutch slip for more than a few seconds, 1 g either way (ie +2 or 0) and
in
the plans for model 2 with VS capacity it will monitor airspeed and will
warn you and then kick out if min or max AS is exceeded.
The VS models will have VS mode and travel to altitude mode eventually.
After some time playing with trim filters it seems to be dialed in for
the
RVs. As such it will drop about 30 ft going into a 30 deg bank turn then
regain that quickly and stabilize through the rest of the turn, with
almost
no rise coming out of the turn. This is equal to the AlTrac's
performance.
As well the engage overshoot is very nicely limited, but this will vary
depending on rate of VS at the time of engaging. The dampening is
usually
within one cycle unless its bumpy outside. I haven't yet flown it in
really
rough conditions, but in moderate conditions, like the AlTrac, it seems
to
hang in there in keeping things well within +- 20ft.
This is a little tough to tell in the RV6s with small tails as they tend
to
wiggle wag away the bump energy a lot.
If you are out of trim it will tell you two ways, one the display will
tell
you "adj trm up" or "dn", and two, if its out enough, it will start
acting
noticeably more abrupt as it corrects. Nothing scary, but it does let
you
know its time to look at it and adjust. Instead of a smooth correction
that
you don't really notice, it makes a correction that you notice as a
positive
input change.
In the future models the design goal will be to have it be able to
automatically adjust trim if you have the electric servo type.
The clutch slip is identical to the clutch slip felt in the Navaid.
Servo mounting looks to be just aft of the midship pitch bellcrank, and
they
are working on supplying a predrilled mount tray for this. The bonus
here is
about 2 lbs as this servo weighs a lot less than the Trutrac servos.
All in all, I have flown several manufacturer's products, and this one
has
the most features for about the same price. The rotary encoder that can
set
altitude adjustments while engaged is way cool. I may wear that puppy
out
playing with it on approaches. This knob will also be used to adjust
things
like VS, briteness, contrast, gain, etc.
My only whine is that the rotary encoder and the LCD display switch
won't
both fit into one 2.25 inst bezel. But, according to the guru, its
really
hard to fit that much magic into such a little space.
Speaking of magic, the system comes with four magic components, the
rotary
encoder, the LCD display/switch, the queen bee brain, which has ports
for
static and eventually pitot, and a very newly designed servo. This servo
has
some exterior similarities to the old navaid type, but the magic inside
is
completely different. As these things talk to each other they are
constantly
testing each other. If they suspect bad mojo the system kicks out an
error
and you get the alarms and pitch control back in your lap.
The aural alarm is a feature they just worked out so that it will feed
into
the audio panel if desired. This is very nice and loud as it will wake
you
up if you are getting control tossed back at you.
I have suggested several features, one - that when you change lanes onto
a
new victor airway that it have a speed bump simulation feature, another
-
autoland, a third - autotaxi, but I'm thinking they aren't going to put
these high on their priority lists. In fact it is not their goal to
replace
the pilot, and in fact they are not recommending this to be an IFR tool
in
spite of what you may use it for.
I will get worried though when it starts refering to itself as HAL, and
you
as DAVE. If you notice this feature I would suggest that you cut the
wires
to your ejection seat and any airlocks you may have installed.
Not sure when they are going to market with it, but it should be
sometime
soon. I know they will be at the NWEAA flyin in AWO next week with a
cool
demo board. As well, WX permitting, I'll be there, as well as at OSH for
any
looky loos who want to drool.
Otherwise try www.trioavionics.com
W aka - not employed in any way by anybody other than Governor Arnie.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Beautiful RV-6 for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
I hope you're right. Wouldn't it be nice if our planes appreciate like real
estate?
do not archive
Shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Beautiful RV-6 for sale
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
> Jeff Dowling wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
>><shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Very pretty but awfully expensive for a vfr a/c.
>>
>>Shemp
>>
>>
>>
> Not true, it is WELL within the price range, infact if that airplane is
> as nice as the description and
> pictures depict it is a good deal.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Beautiful RV-6 for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
You can ask anything you want. I think that may be just a bit high but I
hope Im wrong. He's sure putting in all the goodies though.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Beautiful RV-6 for sale
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Go back to this site & look at the one for sale at the bottom of the
> site.......... KABONG Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Beautiful RV-6 for sale
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
>> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Very pretty but awfully expensive for a vfr a/c.
>>
>> Shemp
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@mnwing.org>
>> To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV-List: Beautiful RV-6 for sale
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
>>>
>>> Fellow Listers:
>>>
>>> One of our local RV club members has put his RV-6 up for sale. This is
>>> a
>>> very nice aircraft, 180 hp, Sensenich prop, only 330 hours TT.
>>>
>>> Details are here at our website:
>>>
>>> http://www.mnwing.org/ForSale.htm
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Doug Weiler
>>> Pres, MN Wing
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cowl mounting |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> > You are right about allowing about 3/16" for the engine sag.
>
> Not always the case - I have 633 hours in four years with no measurable
sag.
>
> Alex Peterson
Alex, do you pull 3+Gs on a regular basis? Do much acro?
I don't know for sure, but I would think doing acro and pulling Gs would
accelerate any sag effects.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (536 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: Nigel Goad <sirlegin@sbcglobal.net>
My quickbuild fuselage and wings have arrived, I need a rough idea as to the amount
of working hours until the wings are final attached so I can sort out timing
for hangar rental.
Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cowl mounting |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>
>
>>>You are right about allowing about 3/16" for the engine sag.
>>>
>>>
>>Not always the case - I have 633 hours in four years with no measurable
>>
>>
>sag.
>
>
>>Alex Peterson
>>
>>
>
>Alex, do you pull 3+Gs on a regular basis? Do much acro?
>
>I don't know for sure, but I would think doing acro and pulling Gs would
>accelerate any sag effects.
>
After wringing the hell out of my Pitts for 24 years, I can say that
akro doesn't affect sag. At all. Zip. Nada. The percentage of time
that you're doing akro is terribly small compared to the time it sits
(hopefully in the hangar) with the engine hanging on it! All isolation
mounts aren't created equal either. Some are harder than others ....
Sag and engine alignment are easily corrected with shim washers between
isolation mount and engine, so if you set the cowl up for the proper
alignment (some airplanes have a lot of offset, usually built into the
mount) then you can shim the engine to match the cowl.
Linn
>
>do not archive
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (536 hours)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by:
Just my 02$'s worth - If you put a heat barrier on the outside of the
exhaust pipe, the metal will run hotter than not putting a heat barrier
since the heat barrier prevents radiation and convection cooling. This is a
good case against wrapping.
If you put a heat barrier on the inside of the pipe, i.e. ceramic coat the
inside, then the hot gases will have a harder time transferring heat to the
metal - hence the pipe will run cooler. This would plead in favor of ceramic
coating the inside, not the outside because if you do, you are offsetting
the pipe's ability to cool down.
Only case against ceramic coating the inside would be metallurgical factors
- does the ceramic coating process introduce elements into the metal which
weaken it in some way?
As to holding your hand near a ceramic coated pipe inside an out to witness
the fact that it is running cool - this is not necessarily good. You are
witnessing the fact that heat is not getting out due to the external ceramic
coating. In fact, the metal just behind the ceramic coat could be very hot,
hotter than without the ceramic coat.
Having said the above, additional weight could be an issue.
That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
Michele Delsol
RV8 - Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:26 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
>
> Hi George,
>
> I've been following this exhaust wrap debate all morning and decided I
> would get a word in. Now, I am not an expert on exhaust systems, my
> specialty lies in the building of high performance Lycoming engines
> (certified also), but I have on more than one occasion eye witnessed two
> different engines being tested on dynamometer using the ceramic coated
> exhaust systems. One engine, a TSIO-520 running on a test cell at
> another engine shop down from ours and a High Performance highly
> modified IO-540 300 HP engine on our own dyno. On both occasions, the
> mild steel pipes were ceramic coated inside and out. I could literally
> hold my hand within 1 inch of the pipes before I could feel any radiant
> heat from the pipes, and this was at full power. The shop responsible
> for these systems is Forsling Aviation in Co. We are working on some
> stuff for the RV-10 together, and doing some different testing with
> different types of exhaust packages. If you would like to talk with
> them, I would be more than happy to pass his number along.
>
> Regards,
>
> Allen Barrett
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Here is the con of the Exhaust wrap as I understand it. I asked a two
> manufactures of custom aircraft aircraft exhaust and was warned not to
> use wrap. Apparently the exhaust pipe is put under more stress (thermal)
> and leads to early failure. Also wrap can collect oil and cause a fire.
> Apparently it is not an uncommon problem. Wrap at your own risk. I like
> the idea, but if it increases the fire danger or chance of an exhaust
> crack, I will pass for now.
>
> The other scheme to reduce heat under the cowl is ceramic coatings. I
> was told flat out buy one exhaust manufacture that he would not warranty
> my exhaust with ceramic. Again more likely to crack.
>
> It make sense. If you keep the exhaust super heated and unable to cool
> it may fail earlier. As far as ceramics there may be a whole different
> mechanism in causing cracks in exhaust pipes.Any technical data or
> experience with wrap. I am only going on what the people who make
> stainless steel exhaust say. Is thick walled mild steel better with
> wraps or coatings?
>
> Cheers George
>
>
> Time: 06:43:08 PM PST US
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> Subject: exhaust wrap
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Been using the stuff Aircraft Spruce sells since about 50 hours.
> I leave it
> natural in color. I have found that stainless steel hose clamps
> work best.
> Have tried the strap bands sold for the job and safety wire. The
> hose clamps
> do the best job.
>
> I have never wrapped any wield or joint so that these items can be
>
> inspected. When you wrap a join or get a break in the pipe, it
> will BLOW
> through the wrap. I have never had a break in my pipe yet but know
> on RV-3
> with an OLD Toole (spelling) exhaust that did.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,690 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
>
> Hi gang,
>
>
> I just removed the exhaust wrap that was applied by the builder of
> my RV-4,
> IO-360. After nearly 500 hours, the wrap had deteriorated and
> could be torn
> off by hand. I never liked the wrap because I always believed that
> it might
> be hiding underlying problems. BUT, now that it's been removed,
> I realize
> how effective it has been. Since there were no problems found
> after
> removal, I think I will replace it. So, does anyone have a
> suggestion
> concerning the best brand(s) to use and what color to use. All
> suggestions
> will be considered. Thanks.
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley, PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4, N180PF
> 190HP IO-360, C/S prop
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it
> out!
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | New transponder certification - check |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
I heard that the FAA is planing to change the requirenments for our transponder
biannnual test & inspection. Does anybody know any details?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ...
> That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
Yes - Does anyone know if there are companies that
do ceramic coating in Europe? I've found lots in
the US, and one in the UK. The auto shops I've
contacted in my area have never even heard of this
process.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Rental |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Nigel,
Where I live hangers are very hard to find, and they are all
shared hangers. So, I'll be doing *everything* before I
bring mine to the airport. I've put the wings on once
to fit everything, and then removed them. My workshop
is big enough to put the wings on and leave them on, but
for convenience sake I'm leaving them off. I personally
believe that your productivity will be much higher
at home than in a hanger.
If you really want an hour number, I'd say about 1000.
Best regards,
Mickey
Nigel Goad wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Nigel Goad <sirlegin@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My quickbuild fuselage and wings have arrived, I need a rough idea as
> to the amount of working hours until the wings are final attached so
> I can sort out timing for hangar rental. Any suggestions welcome.
> Thanks
>
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
But, if the pipe is coated on both inside and outside surfaces, and you
can hold your hand that close to the pipe on the outside without having
to go see a burn specialist, where is the heat on the inside going?
Seems to me (again I'm no expert here) that the heat is being carried
out the end of the pipe.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
--> RV-List message posted by:
Just my 02$'s worth - If you put a heat barrier on the outside of the
exhaust pipe, the metal will run hotter than not putting a heat barrier
since the heat barrier prevents radiation and convection cooling. This
is a
good case against wrapping.
If you put a heat barrier on the inside of the pipe, i.e. ceramic coat
the
inside, then the hot gases will have a harder time transferring heat to
the
metal - hence the pipe will run cooler. This would plead in favor of
ceramic
coating the inside, not the outside because if you do, you are
offsetting
the pipe's ability to cool down.
Only case against ceramic coating the inside would be metallurgical
factors
- does the ceramic coating process introduce elements into the metal
which
weaken it in some way?
As to holding your hand near a ceramic coated pipe inside an out to
witness
the fact that it is running cool - this is not necessarily good. You are
witnessing the fact that heat is not getting out due to the external
ceramic
coating. In fact, the metal just behind the ceramic coat could be very
hot,
hotter than without the ceramic coat.
Having said the above, additional weight could be an issue.
That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
Michele Delsol
RV8 - Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:26 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
>
> Hi George,
>
> I've been following this exhaust wrap debate all morning and decided I
> would get a word in. Now, I am not an expert on exhaust systems, my
> specialty lies in the building of high performance Lycoming engines
> (certified also), but I have on more than one occasion eye witnessed
two
> different engines being tested on dynamometer using the ceramic coated
> exhaust systems. One engine, a TSIO-520 running on a test cell at
> another engine shop down from ours and a High Performance highly
> modified IO-540 300 HP engine on our own dyno. On both occasions, the
> mild steel pipes were ceramic coated inside and out. I could literally
> hold my hand within 1 inch of the pipes before I could feel any
radiant
> heat from the pipes, and this was at full power. The shop responsible
> for these systems is Forsling Aviation in Co. We are working on some
> stuff for the RV-10 together, and doing some different testing with
> different types of exhaust packages. If you would like to talk with
> them, I would be more than happy to pass his number along.
>
> Regards,
>
> Allen Barrett
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Here is the con of the Exhaust wrap as I understand it. I asked a two
> manufactures of custom aircraft aircraft exhaust and was warned not to
> use wrap. Apparently the exhaust pipe is put under more stress
(thermal)
> and leads to early failure. Also wrap can collect oil and cause a
fire.
> Apparently it is not an uncommon problem. Wrap at your own risk. I
like
> the idea, but if it increases the fire danger or chance of an exhaust
> crack, I will pass for now.
>
> The other scheme to reduce heat under the cowl is ceramic coatings. I
> was told flat out buy one exhaust manufacture that he would not
warranty
> my exhaust with ceramic. Again more likely to crack.
>
> It make sense. If you keep the exhaust super heated and unable to cool
> it may fail earlier. As far as ceramics there may be a whole different
> mechanism in causing cracks in exhaust pipes.Any technical data or
> experience with wrap. I am only going on what the people who make
> stainless steel exhaust say. Is thick walled mild steel better with
> wraps or coatings?
>
> Cheers George
>
>
> Time: 06:43:08 PM PST US
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> Subject: exhaust wrap
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Been using the stuff Aircraft Spruce sells since about 50 hours.
> I leave it
> natural in color. I have found that stainless steel hose clamps
> work best.
> Have tried the strap bands sold for the job and safety wire. The
> hose clamps
> do the best job.
>
> I have never wrapped any wield or joint so that these items can
be
>
> inspected. When you wrap a join or get a break in the pipe, it
> will BLOW
> through the wrap. I have never had a break in my pipe yet but
know
> on RV-3
> with an OLD Toole (spelling) exhaust that did.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,690 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig
<larywil@comcast.net>
>
> Hi gang,
>
>
> I just removed the exhaust wrap that was applied by the builder
of
> my RV-4,
> IO-360. After nearly 500 hours, the wrap had deteriorated and
> could be torn
> off by hand. I never liked the wrap because I always believed
that
> it might
> be hiding underlying problems. BUT, now that it's been
removed,
> I realize
> how effective it has been. Since there were no problems found
> after
> removal, I think I will replace it. So, does anyone have a
> suggestion
> concerning the best brand(s) to use and what color to use. All
> suggestions
> will be considered. Thanks.
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley, PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4, N180PF
> 190HP IO-360, C/S prop
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it
> out!
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Any RVers in Italy or Germany? |
--> RV-List message posted by: d-heun@web.de
Hi Dave!
We are living near Frankfurt and beginning to build an RV7 in august.
If you want to visit us, youre welcome!!
We can talk about RVs and show you around.
Detlef and Lili
rv-list@matronics.com schrieb am 29.06.05 17:20:03:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd@losrios.edu>
>
> Are there any RVers out there in northern Italy or southern Germany?
> I'll be vacationing in Tuscany Italy and near Bodensee in southern
> Germany in the last two weeks of July. I'd like to come visit any RVs in
> progress or flying.
>
> Micky - are you out there? What part of Switzerland are you in?
>
> Dave Clinchy
> 7 finishing... finishing...
> Sacramento, CA
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Try the local race shops.
At 10:04 PM 6/30/2005 +0200, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> > ...
> > That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
>
>Yes - Does anyone know if there are companies that
>do ceramic coating in Europe? I've found lots in
>the US, and one in the UK. The auto shops I've
>contacted in my area have never even heard of this
>process.
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Nuffer, Chuck" <CNuffer@it21.com>
A good friend has used two companies on his aircraft and seems to be the
most pleased with Performance Coatings - www.performancecoatings.com
He said the staff was very helpful. They work with several Reno air
race teams. I have seen his exhaust for the last 5 years and it still
looks great. As I understand it the exhaust manufacturers don't like
the stuff since it basically renders the exhaust system as unrepairable.
I don't think they could argue about the efficiency of removing heat
from under the cowling........ Call the Performance guys..... I'm not
an expert either..... They are!
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
--> RV-List message posted by:
Just my 02$'s worth - If you put a heat barrier on the outside of the
exhaust pipe, the metal will run hotter than not putting a heat barrier
since the heat barrier prevents radiation and convection cooling. This
is a good case against wrapping.
If you put a heat barrier on the inside of the pipe, i.e. ceramic coat
the inside, then the hot gases will have a harder time transferring heat
to the metal - hence the pipe will run cooler. This would plead in favor
of ceramic coating the inside, not the outside because if you do, you
are offsetting the pipe's ability to cool down.
Only case against ceramic coating the inside would be metallurgical
factors
- does the ceramic coating process introduce elements into the metal
which weaken it in some way?
As to holding your hand near a ceramic coated pipe inside an out to
witness the fact that it is running cool - this is not necessarily good.
You are witnessing the fact that heat is not getting out due to the
external ceramic coating. In fact, the metal just behind the ceramic
coat could be very hot, hotter than without the ceramic coat.
Having said the above, additional weight could be an issue.
That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
Michele Delsol
RV8 - Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:26 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
>
> Hi George,
>
> I've been following this exhaust wrap debate all morning and decided I
> would get a word in. Now, I am not an expert on exhaust systems, my
> specialty lies in the building of high performance Lycoming engines
> (certified also), but I have on more than one occasion eye witnessed
> two different engines being tested on dynamometer using the ceramic
> coated exhaust systems. One engine, a TSIO-520 running on a test cell
> at another engine shop down from ours and a High Performance highly
> modified IO-540 300 HP engine on our own dyno. On both occasions, the
> mild steel pipes were ceramic coated inside and out. I could literally
> hold my hand within 1 inch of the pipes before I could feel any
> radiant heat from the pipes, and this was at full power. The shop
> responsible for these systems is Forsling Aviation in Co. We are
> working on some stuff for the RV-10 together, and doing some different
> testing with different types of exhaust packages. If you would like to
> talk with them, I would be more than happy to pass his number along.
>
> Regards,
>
> Allen Barrett
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Here is the con of the Exhaust wrap as I understand it. I asked a two
> manufactures of custom aircraft aircraft exhaust and was warned not to
> use wrap. Apparently the exhaust pipe is put under more stress
> (thermal) and leads to early failure. Also wrap can collect oil and
cause a fire.
> Apparently it is not an uncommon problem. Wrap at your own risk. I
> like the idea, but if it increases the fire danger or chance of an
> exhaust crack, I will pass for now.
>
> The other scheme to reduce heat under the cowl is ceramic coatings. I
> was told flat out buy one exhaust manufacture that he would not
> warranty my exhaust with ceramic. Again more likely to crack.
>
> It make sense. If you keep the exhaust super heated and unable to cool
> it may fail earlier. As far as ceramics there may be a whole different
> mechanism in causing cracks in exhaust pipes.Any technical data or
> experience with wrap. I am only going on what the people who make
> stainless steel exhaust say. Is thick walled mild steel better with
> wraps or coatings?
>
> Cheers George
>
>
> Time: 06:43:08 PM PST US
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> Subject: exhaust wrap
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Been using the stuff Aircraft Spruce sells since about 50 hours.
> I leave it
> natural in color. I have found that stainless steel hose clamps
> work best.
> Have tried the strap bands sold for the job and safety wire. The
> hose clamps
> do the best job.
>
> I have never wrapped any wield or joint so that these items can
> be
>
> inspected. When you wrap a join or get a break in the pipe, it
> will BLOW
> through the wrap. I have never had a break in my pipe yet but
> know on RV-3
> with an OLD Toole (spelling) exhaust that did.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,690 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: exhaust wrap
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig
> <larywil@comcast.net>
>
> Hi gang,
>
>
> I just removed the exhaust wrap that was applied by the builder
> of my RV-4,
> IO-360. After nearly 500 hours, the wrap had deteriorated and
> could be torn
> off by hand. I never liked the wrap because I always believed
> that it might
> be hiding underlying problems. BUT, now that it's been
> removed, I realize
> how effective it has been. Since there were no problems found
> after
> removal, I think I will replace it. So, does anyone have a
> suggestion
> concerning the best brand(s) to use and what color to use. All
> suggestions
> will be considered. Thanks.
>
>
> Louis I Willig
> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
> Penn Valley, PA 19072
> 610 668-4964
> RV-4, N180PF
> 190HP IO-360, C/S prop
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it
> out!
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hangar Rental |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I agree mostly with Mickey. You should stay working and building at home
until you the next thing you put together will be too big to take to the AP
or too hard to disassemble for the move and you are ready to put it all
together finally for your airworthiness certificate. Work is so much easier
at home and cheaper. Driving to the AP and back can be a real time waster.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying out of the box (phase 1 testing done). do
not archive
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hangar Rental
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
> Where I live hangers are very hard to find, and they are all
> shared hangers. So, I'll be doing *everything* before I
> bring mine to the airport. I've put the wings on once
> to fit everything, and then removed them. My workshop
> is big enough to put the wings on and leave them on, but
> for convenience sake I'm leaving them off. I personally
> believe that your productivity will be much higher
> at home than in a hanger.
>
> If you really want an hour number, I'd say about 1000.
>
> Best regards,
> Mickey
>
>
> Nigel Goad wrote:
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Nigel Goad <sirlegin@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> My quickbuild fuselage and wings have arrived, I need a rough idea as
>> to the amount of working hours until the wings are final attached so
>> I can sort out timing for hangar rental. Any suggestions welcome.
>> Thanks
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | New transponder certification - check |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
I have not heard anything at this time but that may not mean much as
sometimes us inspectors are the last to know.
Mike Robertson
Do Not Archive
>From: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: RV-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: New transponder certification - check
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:46:22 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller"
><l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
>
>I heard that the FAA is planing to change the requirenments for our
>transponder biannnual test & inspection. Does anybody know any details?
>
>
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