Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:10 AM - Re: Hangar Rental (Doug Cook)
2. 08:39 AM - Subject: Re: Hangar Rental (rv6n6r@comcast.net)
3. 08:43 AM - Re: New transponder certification - check (rv6n6r@comcast.net)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) ()
5. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Exhaust wrap (rv6n6r@comcast.net)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: RV4 N3074T Crash (bertrv6@highstream.net)
7. 02:16 PM - Re: Hangar Rental (Jim Bean)
8. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) (bill shook)
9. 04:30 PM - Re: Exhaust wrap (Martin Hone)
10. 06:27 PM - Re: RV4 N3074T Crash (Jeff Dowling)
11. 07:02 PM - Re: RV4 N3074T Crash (Ed Anderson)
12. 09:26 PM - Off Topic (Bugs) (Bob Perkinson)
13. 11:28 PM - lockwashers on Odyssey battery terminals? (czechsix@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Rental |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Cook" <Dugcook@cox.net>
Nigel,
I've put in about 250 hours on my Q-build RV-7 since the fuse & wings arrived.
I'm getting to the point where the wings need to go on for the first time. Maybe
50 hr more at the most. Of course if I knew what I was doing, that could
easily be cut in half.
Doug - RV-7A in progress in San Diego
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Rental |
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net
I agree, its usually better to do as much as possible at home.
If hangars are hard to come by in your area, and if the hangar rules allow subleasing,
then you might think about grabbing one when it comes up and subleasing
it to someone until you're ready for it. Bonus is that you have a place to store
components as they're completed.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Oregon
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New transponder certification - check |
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net
> I heard that the FAA is planing to change the requirenments for
> our transponder biannnual test & inspection. Does anybody
> know any details ?
No. Heard it where?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Michele:
Makes sense, ceramic coating should keep the pipe cooler from the inside. However
as you point out what is the metallurgical factors, AND there are thermal factors.
If the ceramic coating is not evenly applied (or bare spots) over the whole surface,
than you will have hot spots. These hot spots will cause high stress due
to uneven heating. I am only guessing here from my engineering and structures
experience. I don't know how hard it is to coat pipes in ceramics or its metallurgical
factors.
I don't know for a fact that exhaust pipes are more prone to cracks from ceramic
coating, but this is new stuff for (experimental) airplanes. Like anything there
is no free lunch. I am sure there can be some potential down side but don't
have any specific facts, only that you have two different materials, metal
and ceramic bonded together.
Since this is used more in cars and racing and have more experience with ceramic
coated exhaust may be the info could be found there? Comments?
Cheers George
Just my 02$'s worth - If you put a heat barrier on the outside of the
exhaust pipe, the metal will run hotter than not putting a heat barrier
since the heat barrier prevents radiation and convection cooling. This is
a
good case against wrapping.
If you put a heat barrier on the inside of the pipe, i.e. ceramic coat the
inside, then the hot gases will have a harder time transferring heat to the
metal - hence the pipe will run cooler. This would plead in favor of ceramic
coating the inside, not the outside because if you do, you are offsetting
the pipe's ability to cool down.
Only case against ceramic coating the inside would be metallurgical factors
- does the ceramic coating process introduce elements into the metal which
weaken it in some way?
As to holding your hand near a ceramic coated pipe inside an out to witness
the fact that it is running cool - this is not necessarily good. You are
witnessing the fact that heat is not getting out due to the external ceramic
coating. In fact, the metal just behind the ceramic coat could be very hot,
hotter than without the ceramic coat.
Having said the above, additional weight could be an issue.
That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
Michele Delsol
RV8 - Fuselage
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net
> Just my 02$'s worth - If you put a heat barrier on the outside of the
> exhaust pipe, the metal will run hotter than not putting a heat barrier
[snip]
> That's it - if anyone would care to comment?
There's a ton of stuff about ceramic coating and exhaust wrap in the archives,
going back to '95. Personally after reading all of that I think KISS is the best
principle. I'm happy with my vetterman SS exhaust system -- did have a crack
once in 670 hrs but it was easy to get off and get welded, no other complaints.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R
Oregon
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV4 N3074T Crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>
> If the assumption is that he ran out of gas....what could anyone learn
> from this. It is unfortunate but you cannot teach common sense.
>
> People die as a result of flying and always will. A significant portion
> of those deaths are and will be due to pilot error. This also applies to
> driving, boating, skiing, hiking, etc.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
> At 06:22 AM 6/28/2005, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: WALTER B KERR <jbker@juno.com>
> >
> >
> >The NTSB preliminary report of theMay 28 crash of this RV4 does not give
> >much info, but I feel that we should all learn some basic lessons from
> >this accident.
> >
> >The pilot left FL37 , Treasure Coast Airpark, to go get fuel at
> >Indiantown Airport, X58 about 12 miles to the SE. On arrival it is
> >reported that there were several airplanes in front of him and possibly
> >the self serve pumps were having a problem.
> >
> >He departed without fuel and was apparently headed back to FL37 when he
> >was reported to say over the local 122.9 freq that the engine had
> >stopped. Someone suggested to him to switch fuel tanks and start the
> >boost pump. He reported it was running again.
> >
> >Upon arrival at FL37 it is reported that he did between 2 & 4 touch and
> >goes and when in a low wide downwind position for 27 the engine started
> >running ragged and then quit. The position was over a large mature orange
> >grove and was reported to start a steep bank back to the field when the
> >prop stopped, ie very low speed to stop prop. The nose fell thru and the
> >prop restarted windmilling before impact. The pilot suffered severe head
> >injuries (no buffer on the glare shield) and has been in a coma now for
> >almost a month. The original report from the hospital said if he came out
> >of coma within 2 weeks , he would probably fully recover.
> >
> >I was not at home here at FL37 when this occurred so none of this is
> >eyewitness reporting, but at least 4 neighbors , all pilots and 2 with
> >their radios on heard and saw this develop. I think we should all try to
> >learn from other's accidents and learning from them is the only reason I
> >post this.
> >
> >Bernie Kerr, RV9A with 13B rotary 40 hours
> >
> >Not that this makes any difference, but I can never understand, why Rv
builders, never put any protection, padding on the glare-shield...I have
watched
rv's where ever I go, to see how many do this.. I sayu a very few, if I recall.
Tony Bengalis book,(one of them) mention this and even shows how to do this
very inexpensive, which I did on my RV6a.
Bert
Do NOt archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar Rental |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
I logged about 2800 hours on my quickbuild RV-8, over about 5 years.
Jim Bean
Signed off
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) |
--> RV-List message posted by: bill shook <billshook2000@yahoo.com>
I chimed in earlier about how the exhaust wrap on my race car caught on fire with
some
oil soaking. On the ceramic coating I have some experience as well. A few details,
the
car is a turbo charged GT-3 racer running 26lbs of boost. That translates into
an awful
lot of heat as in exhaust glowing red hot after a race..hence the need for keeping
the
heat in the exhaust and out of the engine bay. Anyway, the wrap turned out to
be a bad
idea when it caught on fire, but the need for a thermal bearier is still there,
so I
turned to ceramic coating. The exhaust on my car is stock from porsche with a
lot of
racing miles on it and yet the ceramic coating has been on there for 4 years now
with no
ill effects. The exhaust is hot enough to ignite unspent fuel during shifting
or engine
braking (4 foot flame thrower out the rear of the car) and yet the engine bay remains
cool. Keep in mind a race car and an aircraft have different cooling extremes
to be
sure. However, I thought with all the talk about ceramics good and bad I thought
I
should throw in that my experience with ceramic coating both on race cars and
motorcycles has been trouble free.
Your milage may vary, in my humble opinion only, run at your own risk, never swim
sooner
than 30 minutes after a meal, and my aircraft when finally finished will have ceramic
coated exhaust. Have a great 4th everyone
Bill
-4 wings
__________________________________
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
I think BPA has hit the nail on the head. By ceramic coating the pipes,
preferably on the inside, the exhaust gas retains its heat which means it
travels faster. This has been proven by myself and others with a gain in
horsepower on race engines.
For aircraft, the main benefit is in lower under-cowl temps. I have used
exhaust wrap to good effect on race stuff, but believe that ceramic coating
the inside is the best way to go. Doing the outside would seem to allow
possible overheating of the steel, as would the wrap, but doing the inside
would keep the heat away from the steel. The only downside I can see would
be in trying to repair a crack. Anybody tried to repair a ceramic-coated
pipe ?
Martin in Oz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV4 N3074T Crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
If you look in the archives you can find a couple of extremely easy ideas
for under 5 bucks.
Shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: <bertrv6@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 N3074T Crash
> --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
>
> Quoting Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>>
>> If the assumption is that he ran out of gas....what could anyone learn
>> from this. It is unfortunate but you cannot teach common sense.
>>
>> People die as a result of flying and always will. A significant portion
>> of those deaths are and will be due to pilot error. This also applies to
>> driving, boating, skiing, hiking, etc.
>>
>> Ron Lee
>>
>>
>> At 06:22 AM 6/28/2005, you wrote:
>> >--> RV-List message posted by: WALTER B KERR <jbker@juno.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >The NTSB preliminary report of theMay 28 crash of this RV4 does not give
>> >much info, but I feel that we should all learn some basic lessons from
>> >this accident.
>> >
>> >The pilot left FL37 , Treasure Coast Airpark, to go get fuel at
>> >Indiantown Airport, X58 about 12 miles to the SE. On arrival it is
>> >reported that there were several airplanes in front of him and possibly
>> >the self serve pumps were having a problem.
>> >
>> >He departed without fuel and was apparently headed back to FL37 when he
>> >was reported to say over the local 122.9 freq that the engine had
>> >stopped. Someone suggested to him to switch fuel tanks and start the
>> >boost pump. He reported it was running again.
>> >
>> >Upon arrival at FL37 it is reported that he did between 2 & 4 touch and
>> >goes and when in a low wide downwind position for 27 the engine started
>> >running ragged and then quit. The position was over a large mature
>> >orange
>> >grove and was reported to start a steep bank back to the field when the
>> >prop stopped, ie very low speed to stop prop. The nose fell thru and the
>> >prop restarted windmilling before impact. The pilot suffered severe head
>> >injuries (no buffer on the glare shield) and has been in a coma now for
>> >almost a month. The original report from the hospital said if he came
>> >out
>> >of coma within 2 weeks , he would probably fully recover.
>> >
>> >I was not at home here at FL37 when this occurred so none of this is
>> >eyewitness reporting, but at least 4 neighbors , all pilots and 2 with
>> >their radios on heard and saw this develop. I think we should all try to
>> >learn from other's accidents and learning from them is the only reason I
>> >post this.
>> >
>> >Bernie Kerr, RV9A with 13B rotary 40 hours
>> >
>> >Not that this makes any difference, but I can never understand, why Rv
> builders, never put any protection, padding on the glare-shield...I have
> watched
> rv's where ever I go, to see how many do this.. I sayu a very few, if I
> recall.
>
> Tony Bengalis book,(one of them) mention this and even shows how to do
> this
> very inexpensive, which I did on my RV6a.
>
> Bert
>
> Do NOt archive
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV4 N3074T Crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I split a 1/2" dia thickwall aluminum tube of length to cover the glare
shield edge and forced it over the aluminum sheet, wrapped than in some
substantial foam and put vinyl over that to provide a neat looking and safer
glare shield. Inexpensive and fairly easy to do.
Ed Anderson
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 N3074T Crash
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>
> If you look in the archives you can find a couple of extremely easy ideas
> for under 5 bucks.
>
> Shemp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bertrv6@highstream.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 N3074T Crash
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
>>
>> Quoting Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>:
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>>>
>>> If the assumption is that he ran out of gas....what could anyone learn
>>> from this. It is unfortunate but you cannot teach common sense.
>>>
>>> People die as a result of flying and always will. A significant portion
>>> of those deaths are and will be due to pilot error. This also applies
>>> to
>>> driving, boating, skiing, hiking, etc.
>>>
>>> Ron Lee
>>>
>>>
>>> At 06:22 AM 6/28/2005, you wrote:
>>> >--> RV-List message posted by: WALTER B KERR <jbker@juno.com>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >The NTSB preliminary report of theMay 28 crash of this RV4 does not
>>> >give
>>> >much info, but I feel that we should all learn some basic lessons from
>>> >this accident.
>>> >
>>> >The pilot left FL37 , Treasure Coast Airpark, to go get fuel at
>>> >Indiantown Airport, X58 about 12 miles to the SE. On arrival it is
>>> >reported that there were several airplanes in front of him and possibly
>>> >the self serve pumps were having a problem.
>>> >
>>> >He departed without fuel and was apparently headed back to FL37 when he
>>> >was reported to say over the local 122.9 freq that the engine had
>>> >stopped. Someone suggested to him to switch fuel tanks and start the
>>> >boost pump. He reported it was running again.
>>> >
>>> >Upon arrival at FL37 it is reported that he did between 2 & 4 touch and
>>> >goes and when in a low wide downwind position for 27 the engine started
>>> >running ragged and then quit. The position was over a large mature
>>> >orange
>>> >grove and was reported to start a steep bank back to the field when the
>>> >prop stopped, ie very low speed to stop prop. The nose fell thru and
>>> >the
>>> >prop restarted windmilling before impact. The pilot suffered severe
>>> >head
>>> >injuries (no buffer on the glare shield) and has been in a coma now for
>>> >almost a month. The original report from the hospital said if he came
>>> >out
>>> >of coma within 2 weeks , he would probably fully recover.
>>> >
>>> >I was not at home here at FL37 when this occurred so none of this is
>>> >eyewitness reporting, but at least 4 neighbors , all pilots and 2 with
>>> >their radios on heard and saw this develop. I think we should all try
>>> >to
>>> >learn from other's accidents and learning from them is the only reason
>>> >I
>>> >post this.
>>> >
>>> >Bernie Kerr, RV9A with 13B rotary 40 hours
>>> >
>>> >Not that this makes any difference, but I can never understand, why Rv
>> builders, never put any protection, padding on the glare-shield...I have
>> watched
>> rv's where ever I go, to see how many do this.. I sayu a very few, if I
>> recall.
>>
>> Tony Bengalis book,(one of them) mention this and even shows how to do
>> this
>> very inexpensive, which I did on my RV6a.
>>
>> Bert
>>
>> Do NOt archive
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Off Topic (Bugs) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
This Summer I am being run over by spiders in the shop area. In the past I
have used a bug bomb to blast away the varmints, but with all the aluminum
in there I question the sanity of blasting chemicals in the air which will
settle out on the aluminum. My question is whether the chemicals in a bug
bomb are going to set up any corrosion on the aluminum, and if it is what is
the next best thing to use?
Do Not Archive
Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
RV9A N658RP Reserved
If nothing changes
Nothing changes
Message 13
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| Subject: | lockwashers on Odyssey battery terminals? |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Ok, ignorant question....does anybody see a need to add a lockwasher to
the battery terminal bolts? My PC-680 battery just came with a plain
washer for each bolt, but no lockwasher. Seems like everything else on
an airplane uses some sort of lockwasher, cotter pin, or self locking
nut, so I'm wondering if this is an exception? No point in adding it if
it ain't needed though....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D....light's getting brighter at the end of the tunnel....moving
to the airport in two weeks....
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