---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/09/05: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (Don VS) 2. 05:59 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (sheldon barrett) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (Alex Peterson) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (linn walters) 5. 07:09 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler () 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (WFACT01@aol.com) 7. 08:31 AM - Re: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at onceBrainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once (elsa-henry) 8. 10:53 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (Marty) 9. 11:12 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (Kyle Boatright) 10. 11:33 AM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler () 11. 11:50 AM - Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A (Terry Mortimore) 12. 12:21 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (linn walters) 13. 12:29 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (linn walters) 14. 12:41 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (linn walters) 15. 01:43 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 16. 01:47 PM - pneumatic squeezer (Richard Leach) 17. 01:55 PM - Re: Metal bandsaw for QB kit? (Robert St.Denis) 18. 02:44 PM - Re: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once (Alison and Neil) 19. 03:05 PM - Re: Metal bandsaw for QB kit? (Paul Folbrecht) 20. 03:13 PM - Re: Glare shield (bertrv6@highstream.net) 21. 03:38 PM - Re: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A (RV6 Flyer) 22. 04:34 PM - Re: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 (Terry Mortimore) 23. 05:34 PM - Blasphemy or what? (Chuck) 24. 05:51 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (c.ennis) 25. 06:01 PM - Re: pneumatic squeezer (Gary L. Gembala) 26. 06:02 PM - Re: Blasphemy or what? (c.ennis) 27. 06:45 PM - Re: Blasphemy or what? (Mark Grieve) 28. 06:48 PM - Re: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once (Walter Tondu) 29. 06:52 PM - Re: Blasphemy or what? (Walter Tondu) 30. 06:54 PM - Re: pneumatic squeezer (David Burton) 31. 07:00 PM - Re: pneumatic squeezer (Mark Grieve) 32. 07:35 PM - Re: Blasphemy or what? (Jerry Springer) 33. 08:16 PM - Re: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A (james frierson) 34. 09:44 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (H.Ivan Haecker) 35. 09:48 PM - Re: Blasphemy or what? (JOHN STARN) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:09 AM PST US From: "Don VS" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "Don VS" Exhaust heat muffs are very inefficient because there is very little "heated area" and therefore very little contact time between the air and the heated part. An oil cooler on the other hand has huge surface area that the air contacts at a slower velocity allowing a large amount of heat transfer. Most people stuff steel wool or other metal into their exhaust muffs in an attempt to slow the air flow and give larger surface area for the transfer to occur on. The large heat transfer capability of an oil cooler should put out the same type of heat levels as an automotive heater as long as the oil entering it remains at a high enough temperature. For very cold operations an adjustable restrictor could be used on the air input side of the oil cooler. Just my thoughts, I have not tried these. Don RV7 Finish Kit N12VS Reserved -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust heat > muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in efficiency. > Hope this helps. As you said, there are huge differences in how you get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or if it is 200F. I think the only way to make this work would be to do it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over the boiling point of water. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:39 AM PST US From: "sheldon barrett" Subject: RV-List: RE: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "sheldon barrett" I have the large oil cooler firewall mounted (right side) with Van's kit... 3" scat tube air supply from the baffle back... (RV6A..0-360)... Made a diverter box on the bottom of the oil cooler to divert the warm air into the cockpit... WORKS GREAT! Keeps my wife's tootsies nice and warm... She plays with the push-pull cable knob to set the airflow/temp just as she wants it... (She thinks she is helping me flying the plane).. Oil temps with my set-up have always been right on.. never had a hot oil temp problem... During the winters here in the high Arizona country, I had to finally install a cockpit control to open/close the amount of cooling air into the cooler...This allowed me to warm up the oil quicker... The heat from the oil cooler seems to always work giving us some heat in the cockpit... The volume from the heat valve can blow warm air filling the cabin too much sometimes... (Yes, the engine has to warm up first.) I think it's how it's implemented if it works or not... Sheldon RV6A 0360 350 hours... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:43 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "sheldon barrett" > > > I have the large oil cooler firewall mounted (right side) with Van's > kit... 3" scat tube air supply from the baffle back... (RV6A..0-360)... > Made a diverter box on the bottom of the oil cooler to divert the warm air > into the cockpit... WORKS GREAT! Keeps my wife's tootsies nice and warm... > She plays with the push-pull cable knob to set the airflow/temp just as > she wants it... (She thinks she is helping me flying the plane).. > Oil temps with my set-up have always been right on.. never had a hot oil > temp problem... During the winters here in the high Arizona country, I had > to finally install a cockpit control to open/close the amount of cooling > air into the cooler...This allowed me to warm up the oil quicker... The > heat from the oil cooler seems to always work giving us some heat in the > cockpit... The volume from the heat valve can blow warm air filling the > cabin too much sometimes... (Yes, the engine has to warm up first.) I > think it's how it's implemented if it works or not... > Sheldon RV6A 0360 350 hours... Sheldon, what is the coldest OAT you have flown this setup in? My experience is that keeping the cockpit warm down to about 15 to 20 F is easy. Keeping it warm in the 0 to minus 10 F range is when one will really tell how effective the heater is. Alex Peterson RV6A N66AP 635 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:26 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated ...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough to cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. However, for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters ....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant installation. Just my thoughts. Linn do not archive Don VS wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Don VS" > > > Exhaust heat muffs are very inefficient because there is very little >"heated area" and therefore very little contact time between the air and the >heated part. An oil cooler on the other hand has huge surface area that the >air contacts at a slower velocity allowing a large amount of heat transfer. >Most people stuff steel wool or other metal into their exhaust muffs in an >attempt to slow the air flow and give larger surface area for the transfer >to occur on. The large heat transfer capability of an oil cooler should put >out the same type of heat levels as an automotive heater as long as the oil >entering it remains at a high enough temperature. For very cold operations >an adjustable restrictor could be used on the air input side of the oil >cooler. Just my thoughts, I have not tried these. > Don > RV7 Finish Kit > N12VS Reserved >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > >>The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust >> >> >heat > > >>muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in >> >> >efficiency. > > >>Hope this helps. >> >> > >As you said, there are huge differences in how you >get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or >if it is 200F. > >I think the only way to make this work would be to do >it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger >into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is >circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over >the boiling point of water. > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 finishing > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:36 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: Linn, Could you steer me towards one of these electric heaters you referr to? A web site maybe? TIA Charlie Kuss ---- linn walters wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don > came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated > ...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough to > cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. However, > for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters > ....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant > installation. Just my thoughts. > Linn > do not archive > > Don VS wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Don VS" > > > > > > Exhaust heat muffs are very inefficient because there is very little > >"heated area" and therefore very little contact time between the air and the > >heated part. An oil cooler on the other hand has huge surface area that the > >air contacts at a slower velocity allowing a large amount of heat transfer. > >Most people stuff steel wool or other metal into their exhaust muffs in an > >attempt to slow the air flow and give larger surface area for the transfer > >to occur on. The large heat transfer capability of an oil cooler should put > >out the same type of heat levels as an automotive heater as long as the oil > >entering it remains at a high enough temperature. For very cold operations > >an adjustable restrictor could be used on the air input side of the oil > >cooler. Just my thoughts, I have not tried these. > > Don > > RV7 Finish Kit > > N12VS Reserved > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins > >To: rv-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > > > > > >>The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust > >> > >> > >heat > > > > > >>muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in > >> > >> > >efficiency. > > > > > >>Hope this helps. > >> > >> > > > >As you said, there are huge differences in how you > >get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or > >if it is 200F. > > > >I think the only way to make this work would be to do > >it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger > >into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is > >circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over > >the boiling point of water. > > > >-- > >Mickey Coggins > >http://www.rv8.ch/ > >#82007 finishing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:58 AM PST US From: WFACT01@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com HI-THE OIL COOLER DOESN'T WORK, WHEN YOU NEED THE HEAT THE MOST THE OIL COOLER IS USUALLY THE COLDEST CIRCULATION STARTS WHEN ENGINE OIL TEMP GETS TO 170 DEGREES-TOM THOMAS M WHELAN WHELAN FARMS AIRPORT 249 HARD HILL RD NORTH POBOX426 BETHLEHEM CT 06751 TEL 203-2665300 WFACT01@AOL.COM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:20 AM PST US From: "elsa-henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at onceBrainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once --> RV-List message posted by: "elsa-henry" Right from the first priming parts session, I "Bit the Bullet" and made about 2 dozen heavy duty hooks out galvanized fence wire and formed them into circles about 2" dia. I bent the ends so that they could be hooked together after threading them through holes in the small parts near their edges or sides. So I finish up with a daisy chain of parts which I then proceed to hang between 2 - 2x6 "L" brackets clamped to a long table. BUT in order to turn the parts while spraying, the daisy chain was connected at each end, next to the "L" brackets, to sections of ball-link key chain. This allows easy swiveling of the parts without twisting any wires or hangers. Worked Great! I primed larger parts by hanging them from the shop ceiling, again using the swivel link to allow easy turning. Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:41 AM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" |--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters | |I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don |came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated |...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough |to |cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. |However, |for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters |....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant |installation. Just my thoughts. |Linn |do not archive Not correct. The only setting on most American cars that recirculates interior air is the 'Max' setting on the air-conditioner. Most imports have a dedicated switch/lever/button to set whether air is fresh or recirculated, although recommended practice is to leave it on Fresh the majority of the time to prevent the air from becoming stale. On newer Freightliner semi-trucks (and maybe other makes as well, but I can't say for sure) there is an alarm that sounds after about 20 minutes if you leave the climate controls set to recirculate. Marty ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:40 AM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Think about the amps you'll need to pull to get a meaningful amount of heat. Lots of the guys with EZ's and other pushers have tried these heaters, and the consensus is that they are ineffective unless all you're interested in is keeping your toes warm while the rest of you slowly freezes. If having meaningful heat in your airplane is important, I'd stick with the tried and true design using a heat muff around the exhaust pipe. It works and there are off the shelf solutions that bolt right on... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Linn, > Could you steer me towards one of these electric heaters you referr to? A > web site maybe? > TIA > Charlie Kuss > > ---- linn walters wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >> >> I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don >> came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated >> ...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough to >> cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. However, >> for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters >> ....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant >> installation. Just my thoughts. >> Linn >> do not archive >> >> Don VS wrote: >> >> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Don VS" >> > >> > >> > Exhaust heat muffs are very inefficient because there is very little >> >"heated area" and therefore very little contact time between the air and >> >the >> >heated part. An oil cooler on the other hand has huge surface area that >> >the >> >air contacts at a slower velocity allowing a large amount of heat >> >transfer. >> >Most people stuff steel wool or other metal into their exhaust muffs in >> >an >> >attempt to slow the air flow and give larger surface area for the >> >transfer >> >to occur on. The large heat transfer capability of an oil cooler should >> >put >> >out the same type of heat levels as an automotive heater as long as the >> >oil >> >entering it remains at a high enough temperature. For very cold >> >operations >> >an adjustable restrictor could be used on the air input side of the oil >> >cooler. Just my thoughts, I have not tried these. >> > Don >> > RV7 Finish Kit >> > N12VS Reserved >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler >> > >> > >> >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >> > >> > >> > >> >>The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust >> >> >> >> >> >heat >> > >> > >> >>muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in >> >> >> >> >> >efficiency. >> > >> > >> >>Hope this helps. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >As you said, there are huge differences in how you >> >get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or >> >if it is 200F. >> > >> >I think the only way to make this work would be to do >> >it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger >> >into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is >> >circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over >> >the boiling point of water. >> > >> >-- >> >Mickey Coggins >> >http://www.rv8.ch/ >> >#82007 finishing >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:17 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: Thanks Mickey, Yes, I am too lazy to put two brain cells together and calculate the heat requirement myself. My gut feel is it is not enough heat to be comfortable and other factors make this idea impractical. I do have the engineering back ground to figure it out heat transfer, but there are so many variables and I don't have enough data. When you are talking HVAC (heating ventilation & air-conditioning) there are many variables that equal comfort to a human. An experiment with a typical RV in winter that has plenty of cabin heat (using exhaust heat muffs) would be in order, measuring the effective BTU's the system is capable of. Calculation of the BTU's for the oil cooler would be possible. However you would need to have a blower fan (to get the proper mass flow) which complicates it. Also if it is real cold the vernatherm will just cut the oil cooler out of the loop. The exhaust heat exchanger is going to end up lighter and simpler. The obvious advantage is less chance of CO getting into the cabin. The bad part is oil line or core leaks could get hot oil into cabin. As far as comparing an auto heater core and airplane oil cooler as a cabin heater, my gut feel is auto heat exchangers put out more heat due to high volume of coolant flow vs. the that of an airplane oil cooler. Airplane oil coolers will flow much less oil than a car's heat exchanger is my guess. Also, cars are easier to heat because they are air tight and have better insulation, even if the volume of air to heat is larger. One thing that is holding me back from an analytical estimate of the BTU's needed to heat the cabin of a RV are the variables. Some RV's have more air leaks for example. I would not want to even think of this mod if there was no chance it would work, and that is my guess right now, it won't work, despite the long-EZ guys. Also you would have to run oil lines into the cabin or have a large firewall penetrations of the oil cooler air. Back to my and Van's mantra: "Keep it simple, keep it light & build it to plans". -OR- "Changing anything from plans usually adds cost, weight and build time" Think I talked myself out of it, and no ceramic coating to my RV-7 headers, If I am wrong and someone is heating their RV successfully with just an oil cooler let me know. Cheers George. From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Cabin heat from oil cooler > The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust heat > muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in efficiency. > Hope this helps. As you said, there are huge differences in how you get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or if it is 200F. I think the only way to make this work would be to do it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over the boiling point of water. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:40 AM PST US From: Terry Mortimore Subject: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A --> RV-List message posted by: Terry Mortimore Hi Gang: I've come across an older O-320 here in town and I'd like to try and use it for my RV-6A. A fellow from Leavens (rebuild shop) told me that I had to watch the older O-320 because the carb mounting location was to the rear of the engine and could interfere with the RV-6A Nose Gear assembly. Any one have any experience with this? Are there oil pans (newer versions?) that move the carb forward to clear the 6A gear? The data plate on the engine just has O-320 on it, no letters following it. It is a conical mount. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Tailwinds, Terry. Terry Mortimore, 426 McNabb Street Apt #4, Sault Ste Marie, Ontario Canada P6B-1Z3 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:11 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Sorry, I don't have a web site ...... or remember where I came across the info. I do remember that it was in relation to a homebuilt though. And it was a 4 place ..... maybe a Velocity???? I'll ask around. Linn chaztuna@adelphia.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > > Linn, > Could you steer me towards one of these electric heaters you referr to? A web site maybe? >TIA >Charlie Kuss > >---- linn walters wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >> >>I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don >>came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated >>...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough to >>cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. However, >>for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters >>....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant >>installation. Just my thoughts. >>Linn >>do not archive >> >>Don VS wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Don VS" >>> >>> >>>Exhaust heat muffs are very inefficient because there is very little >>>"heated area" and therefore very little contact time between the air and the >>>heated part. An oil cooler on the other hand has huge surface area that the >>>air contacts at a slower velocity allowing a large amount of heat transfer. >>>Most people stuff steel wool or other metal into their exhaust muffs in an >>>attempt to slow the air flow and give larger surface area for the transfer >>>to occur on. The large heat transfer capability of an oil cooler should put >>>out the same type of heat levels as an automotive heater as long as the oil >>>entering it remains at a high enough temperature. For very cold operations >>>an adjustable restrictor could be used on the air input side of the oil >>>cooler. Just my thoughts, I have not tried these. >>>Don >>>RV7 Finish Kit >>>N12VS Reserved >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins >>>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler >>> >>> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>The oil cooler only gives temps. in the 250 degree range. An exhaust >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>heat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>muff gets heat in the 1200 - 1400 degree range. No comparison in >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>efficiency. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>As you said, there are huge differences in how you >>>get heat into the cabin if your source is 1200F or >>>if it is 200F. >>> >>>I think the only way to make this work would be to do >>>it like in autos - that is to bring a small heat exchanger >>>into the cabin. Of course, in cars the heater core is >>>circulating engine coolant, which never gets much over >>>the boiling point of water. >>> >>>-- >>>Mickey Coggins >>>http://www.rv8.ch/ >>>#82007 finishing >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:47 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Well, I'm not familiar with all the cars ..... but my old cars recirculated and my Jeep ('96) has both controls for vent or recirculate .... in heat an air cond mode. On the other hand, my wife's Lincoln ('97) has a 'vent' mode OR air cond. Go figure. Just MY data points. Linn Marty wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" > >|--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >| >|I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don >|came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated >|...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough >|to >|cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. >|However, >|for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters >|....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant >|installation. Just my thoughts. >|Linn >|do not archive > > >Not correct. >The only setting on most American cars that recirculates interior air >is the 'Max' setting on the air-conditioner. Most imports have a >dedicated switch/lever/button to set whether air is fresh or >recirculated, although recommended practice is to leave it on Fresh >the majority of the time to prevent the air from becoming stale. On >newer Freightliner semi-trucks (and maybe other makes as well, but I >can't say for sure) there is an alarm that sounds after about 20 >minutes if you leave the climate controls set to recirculate. >Marty > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:25 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters I Googled "12 ceramic car heater" and got 69,700 hits. Far too many for me to look through. Thinking back on my original info, it seems like the heaters were used in the back seats of a 4-place ..... but the front seats may have had muff heat. I dunno, just trying to help. Linn ..... sorry for the multiple posts. I'm outta here! linn walters wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > >Well, I'm not familiar with all the cars ..... but my old cars >recirculated and my Jeep ('96) has both controls for vent or recirculate >.... in heat an air cond mode. On the other hand, my wife's Lincoln >('97) has a 'vent' mode OR air cond. Go figure. >Just MY data points. >Linn > >Marty wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" >> >>|--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >>| >>|I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don >>|came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated >>|...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough >>|to >>|cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. >>|However, >>|for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters >>|....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant >>|installation. Just my thoughts. >>|Linn >>|do not archive >> >> >>Not correct. >>The only setting on most American cars that recirculates interior air >>is the 'Max' setting on the air-conditioner. Most imports have a >>dedicated switch/lever/button to set whether air is fresh or >>recirculated, although recommended practice is to leave it on Fresh >>the majority of the time to prevent the air from becoming stale. On >>newer Freightliner semi-trucks (and maybe other makes as well, but I >>can't say for sure) there is an alarm that sounds after about 20 >>minutes if you leave the climate controls set to recirculate. >>Marty >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" One other thing about those ceramic heater is they usually suck a whole lot of amps! Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters I Googled "12 ceramic car heater" and got 69,700 hits. Far too many for me to look through. Thinking back on my original info, it seems like the heaters were used in the back seats of a 4-place ..... but the front seats may have had muff heat. I dunno, just trying to help. Linn ..... sorry for the multiple posts. I'm outta here! linn walters wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > >Well, I'm not familiar with all the cars ..... but my old cars >recirculated and my Jeep ('96) has both controls for vent or >recirculate .... in heat an air cond mode. On the other hand, my >wife's Lincoln >('97) has a 'vent' mode OR air cond. Go figure. >Just MY data points. >Linn > >Marty wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" >> >>|--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >>| >>|I think the reason the 'oil cooler heater' doesn't work well, and Don >>|came close ..... is that in the car the 'cabin' air is recirculated >>|...... but in the oil cooler scenario the 'delta-T' isn't high enough >>|to cause a steady sream of really hot air like in the heat muff. >>|However, >>|for ya'll up in the frozen north ...... they make 12V ceramic heaters >>|....... that have their own fan and would be a more elegant >>|installation. Just my thoughts. >>|Linn >>|do not archive >> >> >>Not correct. >>The only setting on most American cars that recirculates interior air >>is the 'Max' setting on the air-conditioner. Most imports have a >>dedicated switch/lever/button to set whether air is fresh or >>recirculated, although recommended practice is to leave it on Fresh >>the majority of the time to prevent the air from becoming stale. On >>newer Freightliner semi-trucks (and maybe other makes as well, but I >>can't say for sure) there is an alarm that sounds after about 20 >>minutes if you leave the climate controls set to recirculate. >>Marty >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:56 PM PST US From: "Richard Leach" Subject: RV-List: pneumatic squeezer --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" I have placed a bid on ebay for a pneumatic squeezer but it is the alligator type with only a 1 =BD=94 max depth. Would this be worth the money or should I hold out for the other type? Do not archive Rick Leach N512RM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:40 PM PST US From: "Robert St.Denis" Subject: Re: RV-List: Metal bandsaw for QB kit? --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert St.Denis" I'm in the process of setting up my shop for my -10 and I ended up picking up a cheapy mastercraft air drill for all of 40cad ... figure itll do just as well as the sioux for 250usd Doug Cook wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Cook" > >Paul, > >I'm well into my RV-7A Q-Build and have gotten by quite well with a hand hacksaw. >I have also used a Sears 3/8 electric drill for the whole project. I attended an RV builders clinic and didn't see the benefit in a high speed, loud, and expensive air drill that I used there. The 3/8 drill is the way to go. > >Doug - RV-7A in progress in San Diego > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:39 PM PST US From: Alison and Neil Subject: Re: RV-List: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once --> RV-List message posted by: Alison and Neil I agree, except I will be priming the non alclad stuff. Hey Walter did you figure out the EIS tach problem? I'm have the same situation. I have the EIS wired into the E-mag tach sender and there is no indicaton of RPM. I hate to cut into my nice neat wiring to wire it to the conventional mag to see if the problem is the EIS or the E-mag. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Tondu" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once > --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu > > On 07/08 1:28, Paul Folbrecht wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht > > > > Don't most (many?) elect to not prime the alclad skins? I am not > > planning on doing the skins. > > > > Perhaps a long thread on priming is in order? (Ducking...) > > Ok, I just gotta leap in here with both feet and arms flailing. > If (when) I build the next plane (aluminum of course) I will > > NOT > > prime anything. There, I said it and I meant it. > > I could have built my plane several months earlier had I not > primed. It would have cost less. It would weigh less. I wouldn't > have cans of nasty primer mix sitting in my garage. I would > have one less HVLP paint gun, on and on and on and on. Do > you know how many hangers I could have saved? They never > had a chance. > > And the plane is still going to outlast my desire to fly it. > And it's resale value is going to be just as much as primed, > ok maybe a few percent less, Big Deal. We worry about that > but we consider the time (2000+ hrs.) we put into the plane > as free? Yeah, that makes sense. > > Don't Do It. Just, step away from the primer and walk back > into the house. Have a cold one and start riveting, without > priming. This is the only way to kill the primer war thread. > > :) > -- > Walter Tondu > http://www.rv7-a.com > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:09 PM PST US From: Paul Folbrecht Subject: Re: RV-List: Metal bandsaw for QB kit? --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Folbrecht Probably not. I got the chance to see the difference between a $75 air drill and the $200 Sioux myself at the EAA SportAir workshop I attended. I bought the Sioux. It has a much more sensitive trigger, allowing you to vary the speed, and is much quieter. --- "Robert St.Denis" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert St.Denis" > > I'm in the process of setting up my shop for my -10 and I ended up > picking up a cheapy mastercraft air drill for all of 40cad ... figure > itll do just as well as the sioux for 250usd > > Doug Cook wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Cook" > > > >Paul, > > > >I'm well into my RV-7A Q-Build and have gotten by quite well with a hand > hacksaw. > >I have also used a Sears 3/8 electric drill for the whole project. I > attended an RV builders clinic and didn't see the benefit in a high speed, > loud, and expensive air drill that I used there. The 3/8 drill is the way to > go. > > > >Doug - RV-7A in progress in San Diego > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:28 PM PST US From: bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Glare shield --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Quoting Jeff Dowling : > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" > > Fabric shops sell molding already made for this for just a couple of bucks. > Its all in the archives somewhere. > > Shemp/Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 200 hours > Chicago/Louisville > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glen Matejcek" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Glare shield > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Glen Matejcek > > > > Hi All- > > > > Ive put some thought into combing (SP?) the glare shield lip. Im > > concerned that if my fat head were to whack a non-metallic cover, the edge > > of the glare shield sheet metal would cut right through the padding and > > scalp me, or worse. My tentative plan is to split some copper water pipe > > or aluminum tube and mount it over the edge of the sheet metal. This in > > itself should cause the glare shield to buckle before my noggin got > > peeled, and Im also considering padding the tube before wrapping it in > > cloth. Likewise, I plan on cloth covered water pipe insulation on the > > seat back weldment of my -8 to protect the rear seater. Have any of you > > fine folks gone down this path? > > > > gm > > > > > > Glen Matejcek > > > > Glen: When I was ready to do that on my rv6a, I follow Tony Bingilis construction books... one of them has excellent ideas and drawings inexpensive too... I think is one volume one....Kook it up.. Good luck Bert rv6a do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:27 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Terry: Lycoming did make a O-320 with no numbers after it. Sounds like it is a NARROW DECK engine. The Narrow deck engine uses what looks like allen head nuts to hold the cylinders to the engine. I have an O-320 B2B narrow deck that I converted to constant speed operation. My engine would NOT work on an RV-6A as the cab sits very far back on the sump. About the only way you will be able to tell if it will work is to look at it and one mounted on a flying RV-6A. Measure with a ruler the distance from the carb to the back of the oil sump. I can tell just by looking that the engine in my -6 would not work in a -6A becasue of the location of the updraft carb on the sump. No way to tell if the one you found will work or not. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,694 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Terry Mortimore Subject: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A --> RV-List message posted by: Terry Mortimore Hi Gang: I've come across an older O-320 here in town and I'd like to try and use it for my RV-6A. A fellow from Leavens (rebuild shop) told me that I had to watch the older O-320 because the carb mounting location was to the rear of the engine and could interfere with the RV-6A Nose Gear assembly. Any one have any experience with this? Are there oil pans (newer versions?) that move the carb forward to clear the 6A gear? The data plate on the engine just has O-320 on it, no letters following it. It is a conical mount. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Tailwinds, Terry. Terry Mortimore, 426 McNabb Street Apt #4, Sault Ste Marie, Ontario Canada P6B-1Z3 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:37 PM PST US From: Terry Mortimore in a RV6A Subject: Re: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A --> RV-List message posted by: Terry Mortimore in a RV6A RV6 Flyer wrote: >Terry: > >Lycoming did make a O-320 with no numbers after it. Sounds like it is a >NARROW DECK engine. The Narrow deck engine uses what looks like allen head >nuts to hold the cylinders to the engine. > >I have an O-320 B2B narrow deck that I converted to constant speed >operation. My engine would NOT work on an RV-6A as the cab sits very far >back on the sump. > >About the only way you will be able to tell if it will work is to look at >it and one mounted on a flying RV-6A. Measure with a ruler the distance >from the carb to the back of the oil sump. > >I can tell just by looking that the engine in my -6 would not work in a -6A >becasue of the location of the updraft carb on the sump. No way to tell if >the one you found will work or not. > >Gary A. Sobek > Hi Gary, thanks for the reply. This engine is disassembled and I thought I would start looking for a oil pan that would move the carb location forward. I have seen a few pans on Ebay, but so far they look like the same carb location as the one on this engine. This assumes that all the pans would have the same bolt patterns which I'll have to confirm before long. I'll have to go down and have another look at the cylinder mounting method and get the serial number from the engine. My fuselage kit won't be ordered until this September so I have time to learn more about these things. Thanks again, Terry. Terry Mortimore, 426 McNabb Street Apt #4, Sault Ste Marie, Ontario Canada P6B-1Z3 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:54 PM PST US From: Chuck Subject: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck I know some will say this question is sacrilegious, but ... Has anyone used round head rivets to build an RV or are there any estimates on drag/lost performance with round verses flush rivets? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:14 PM PST US From: "c.ennis" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" Electric heater for your RV. Hi-tech compact heater draws 25 amps @ 12VDC. 1100BTU. Controls include fan, heat and thermostat. 5 1/4 x 7 3/4 x 8 1/4" unit installs easily. Weight; 6 lbs. Constant heat output at all altitudes, unlike heat muff. Currently flying in RV's for over 2 years. $99.00 plus $8.00 freight. AIRTECH,, 4480 Treat Blvd. #316, Concord, CA. 94521, USA, phone (510) 68504809 fax (510) 825-4755 There you go guys, this ad and a photo of the unit mounted between the rudder pedals of an RV4 have been in my files for several years...Back when I was finishing up the interior of my 6A I found Airtech on the internet..so they are most likely still in business. No I didn't install one but I was tempted, 25 amp draw scared me off. Charlie Ennis Test phase over now I need somewhere to go. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:29 PM PST US From: "Gary L. Gembala" Subject: Re: RV-List: pneumatic squeezer --> RV-List message posted by: "Gary L. Gembala" Go for the standard squeezer. Then buy a longeron yoke and a the largest no die yoke you can find. You will use all of these many times. The best part is the yokes will also fit your hand squeezer. Gary Gembala ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Leach" Subject: RV-List: pneumatic squeezer > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" > > I have placed a bid on ebay for a pneumatic squeezer but it is the > alligator type with only a 1 =BD=94 max depth. Would this be worth the > money or should I hold out for the other type? > > Do not archive > > Rick Leach > N512RM > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:41 PM PST US From: "c.ennis" Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" Could be an urban legend, but I remember a story I read some time ago about the RAF doing some studies on WWII fighters. Story goes they glued split peas to the fuselage over the flush rivits...As I remember they decided to continue with flush rivits on the leading edges and half way back the wing. If you have seen the AVIATOR movie, Howard Hughes seemed to have a facination with this concept and used flush rivits on the H1....2 more reasons for using flush rivits,.. they don't pick up as many thraeds when you wash your plane and round rivits are butt ugly. Just my opinion. Charlie Ennis ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:07 PM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve Chuck, It can be done but you would certainly see a loss of cruise speed. RVs have 20,000 rivets and a lot of those hold the skin on. Even a tiny bit of drag will amount so something when you multiply it by a number that large. The most objectionable thing to me is driving round head rivets. Sure, dimpling takes time but flush head rivets are sooo asy to drive. 1/8 inch universal rivets are OK to drive but the 3/32 are awful. While we're talking about alternate construction methods, what about assembling an RV with blind rivets as those Zenith builders are doing? I bet that one is in the archives. Do not archive Mark Chuck wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck > >I know some will say this question is sacrilegious, but ... Has anyone used round head rivets to build an RV or are there any estimates on drag/lost performance with round verses flush rivets? > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:34 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: Brainstorming - priming/drying a lot of parts at once --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 07/09 2:42, Alison and Neil wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Alison and Neil > > I agree, except I will be priming the non alclad stuff. Hey Walter did you > figure out the EIS tach problem? I'm have the same situation. I have the EIS > wired into the E-mag tach sender and there is no indicaton of RPM. I hate to > cut into my nice neat wiring to wire it to the conventional mag to see if > the problem is the EIS or the E-mag. If you have LASAR ignition, I'm assuming you don't since you mentioned E-mag, then there is a quick fix from GRT you can do. It involves cutting the lead to a resistor in the EIS box. Trust me, it's a simple 2 minute operation. Very easy. I'm not sure if that applies to E-mag or not. You'll have to call them. But my issues have been solved. :) -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:57 PM PST US From: Walter Tondu Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu On 07/09 5:33, Chuck wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck > > I know some will say this question is sacrilegious, but ... Has anyone used round head rivets to build an RV or are there any estimates on drag/lost performance with round verses flush rivets? Since you did not include "do not archive" in your post, this question will forever be linked solidly to your name. Over the years, I'm sure it will garner many a good laugh. DO NOT ARCHIVE :) -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:05 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: pneumatic squeezer --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > Go for the standard squeezer. Then buy a longeron yoke and a the largest no > die yoke you can find. You will use all of these many times. The best part > is the yokes will also fit your hand squeezer. I think that this is good advice from Gary. The only gotcha is that you must purchase the hand squeezer that works with the pneumatic squeezer yokes. Many do not... ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:21 PM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV-List: pneumatic squeezer --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve Rick, I would go for the C style squeezer. I have used each and currently have an alligator. I don't care for it! Adjustment is done by placeing washers under the sets which is not horribly convenient. It works well for dimpling but not for riveting. If the price is right then go for it, you can dimple up a storm. Clamp the fixed jaw in a vise and bring the work to the tool. Works great! For ease of riveting you want the C style. That said, a hand squeezer is fine for 3/32 rivets. We squeezed 300 rivets by hand one day. You can squeeze faster than your partner pulling clecos can do his job. What fun! That job goes faster with a pnumatic cleco tool but that's another thread. Another post gives advice for which head to buy on the other style of squeezer. The advice is sound. I think that a longeron yoke, a no hole yoke and deep yoke with a hole would be my order of choices. The deep yoke deflects a lot when squeezing 1/8 rivets but does the smaller ones OK. At $100 per yoke you can get some money wrapped up here. Make sure you get the adjustable plunger, many come with a fixed plunger that requires washers. You might as well buy an alligator if you want to deal with washers. With the adjustable plunger you can have precice control over the height of the shop head. Happy bidding Do not archive Mark Richard Leach wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" > >I have placed a bid on ebay for a pneumatic squeezer but it is the >alligator type with only a 1 =BD=94 max depth. Would this be worth the >money or should I hold out for the other type? > >Do not archive > >Rick Leach >N512RM > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:46 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Walter Tondu wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu > >On 07/09 5:33, Chuck wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck > > > > I know some will say this question is sacrilegious, but ... Has anyone used round head rivets to build an RV or are there any estimates on drag/lost performance with round verses flush rivets? > >Since you did not include "do not archive" in your post, >this question will forever be linked solidly to your name. >Over the years, I'm sure it will garner many a good laugh. > >DO NOT ARCHIVE :) > > I've seen it done on an RV-3, did not look bad at all and he was still fast, I don't think you would notice a whole of difference. Jerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:53 PM PST US From: "james frierson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 in a RV6A --> RV-List message posted by: "james frierson" I have the same engine in my -6A and I did have to find a sump with the carb in the middle. The sump also uses larger diameter induction tubes. Not sure what it came from but it works well and there was no problems with the bolt pattern. However, there are some internal deference's you need to be aware of. The original sump, rear carb, had a pickup tube for the oil pump that bolts to the accessory case. This will need to be disgarded and the mounting holes blocked off as the newer mid carb design uses a passage built into the sump as an oil pickup. This was done by fabricating a plate the size and shape of the pickup tube flange and using the original bolts and a new gasket. The accessory case has an allen head plug in the oil passage that will need to be removed to allow the oil to get to the oil pump. All in all the conversion was not a big problem and is working well. The biggest problem was finding the newer sump. Scott R162RV Flying >From: Terry Mortimore >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com.Netscape/7.1 (ax) >Subject: RV-List: Educate me please - Carb mounting location on older O-320 >in a RV6A >Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:48:18 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Terry Mortimore > >Hi Gang: > >I've come across an older O-320 here in town and I'd like to try and use it >for my RV-6A. A fellow from Leavens (rebuild shop) told me that I had to >watch the older O-320 because the carb mounting location was to the rear of >the engine and could interfere with the RV-6A Nose Gear assembly. > >Any one have any experience with this? Are there oil pans (newer versions?) >that move the carb forward to clear the 6A gear? > >The data plate on the engine just has O-320 on it, no letters following it. >It is a conical mount. > >Any thoughts would be appreciated. > > > Tailwinds, Terry. > > >Terry Mortimore, >426 McNabb Street Apt #4, >Sault Ste Marie, Ontario >Canada P6B-1Z3 > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:08 PM PST US From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler autolearn=no version=3.0.2 --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" I bought one of these years ago and mounted it in my -4 forward of the control stick and had it canted slightly upward. It had a switch that allowed you to run either 2 or all 3 of the coil heating elements. All it did was suck electricity and possibly raise the temperature of my crotch 1 degree. Nicely made but of little use in my plane. Free to anyone who wants it if I still have it. Ivan Haecker -4 1165hrs. S. Cen. TX p.s. I don't need a heater, I need an air conditioner!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "c.ennis" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler > --> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" > > Electric heater for your RV. Hi-tech compact heater draws 25 amps @ 12VDC. > 1100BTU. Controls include fan, heat and thermostat. 5 1/4 x 7 3/4 x 8 1/4" > unit installs easily. Weight; 6 lbs. Constant heat output at all altitudes, > unlike heat muff. Currently flying in RV's for over 2 years. $99.00 plus > $8.00 freight. AIRTECH,, 4480 Treat Blvd. #316, Concord, CA. 94521, USA, > phone (510) 68504809 fax (510) 825-4755 > > There you go guys, this ad and a photo of the unit mounted between the > rudder pedals of an RV4 have been in my files for several years...Back when > I was finishing up the interior of my 6A I found Airtech on the internet..so > they are most likely still in business. No I didn't install one but I was > tempted, 25 amp draw scared me off. > Charlie Ennis > Test phase over now I need somewhere to go. > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:06 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" RV with raised round head rivets ?. Sounds like one of the things I don't like about what I've heard about Van's investigating using all "pop" rivets on the -12. Went to a lot of extra work & costs to elimate "pop" rivets on N561FS. But then again who ever said the RV-12 would be much like the HRII. Just my opinion. KABONG 8*) (GBA & GWB) also Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Blasphemy or what? > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Walter Tondu wrote: >> > I know some will say this question is sacrilegious, but ... Has >> > anyone used round head rivets to build an RV or are there any estimates >> > on drag/lost performance with round verses flush rivets? > I've seen it done on an RV-3, did not look bad at all and he was still > fast, I don't think you would notice a whole of difference.