---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/17/05: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:59 AM - Re: Bending Rivets (alan@reichertech.com) 2. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Bending Rivets (Bob Collins) 3. 06:48 AM - Re: Bending Rivets (Bob Perkinson) 4. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Predator Corvette (Albert Gardner) 5. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: RV-Linst: Predator Corvette (Skylor Piper) 6. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: RV-Linst: Predator Corvette (ogoodwin@comcast.net) 7. 11:10 AM - Fw: engine problem (Scott Jackson) 8. 11:27 AM - Re: solo riveting of leading edges (Jim Oke) 9. 02:33 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Richard McBride) 10. 03:34 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Scott Jackson) 11. 03:39 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Scott Jackson) 12. 03:40 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Knicholas2@aol.com) 13. 04:27 PM - Re: solo riveting of leading edges (Denis Walsh) 14. 05:23 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Richard McBride) 15. 05:56 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Alex Peterson) 16. 07:10 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 17. 07:23 PM - V-List: Fw: engine problem (Robin Marks) 18. 07:41 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (Brian Alley) 19. 07:41 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (james frierson) 20. 07:41 PM - Re: Cabin heat from oil cooler (was: Exhaust Wrap Ceramic coating) (Mike Kraus) 21. 07:50 PM - Re: Fw: engine problem (linn walters) 22. 09:53 PM - Vans Vent Kit on RV-4 (Ted Lumpkin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:36 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Bending Rivets From: alan@reichertech.com --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com Thanks for the inputs on this so far. A lot of folks mentioned the possibility of the rivet being too long. I had checked this... they are just under 1.5 diameter when inserted into the hole. Others mentioned angles on the bucking bar and difficulty using the offset rivet set. Since I now have a very nice practice piece (ahem!), I'll go drill a bunch of holes and see if I can get some to drive straight. -- Alan Reichert Prepping Horizontal Stabilizer for Assembly; ordered new parts for Vertical Stabilizer :-( Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:06 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Bending Rivets --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Are these "4" rivets. For a 3X gun, I find a PSI of close to 60 to be optimal for *_me_ . I use a 40-43 for the "3" rivets. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Can't disagree with any of the other suggestions, however. *YMMV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of alan@reichertech.com Subject: RV-List: RE: Bending Rivets --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com Thanks for the inputs on this so far. A lot of folks mentioned the possibility of the rivet being too long. I had checked this... they are just under 1.5 diameter when inserted into the hole. Others mentioned angles on the bucking bar and difficulty using the offset rivet set. Since I now have a very nice practice piece (ahem!), I'll go drill a bunch of holes and see if I can get some to drive straight. -- Alan Reichert Prepping Horizontal Stabilizer for Assembly; ordered new parts for Vertical Stabilizer :-( Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:30 AM PST US From: "Bob Perkinson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bending Rivets --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" I dont recall having to use an offset to get these 3 pieces together, there was enough flex in there to use a straight set. You might want to give Van s a call and see if you could use a bolt in the one hole that is too large, unless of course the edge clearance is not large enough. That might save you some $$$ plus shipping and handling. Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9A N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes Looks like I get to order some new pieces next week. :-( While trying to assemble V-702/V-704/V-705 on an RV-8 emp, I keep peening over the rivets rather than making a nice level shop head. Any clues what I"m doing wrong? Gun is a 3X, 45PSI, offset. It sure looks like I'm driving it straight, but I'm obviously not doing something properly. Drilling out the last one ended up putting a badly oblong hole in the pieces, so they are now trash. -- Alan Reichert Priv, Inst, SEL RV-8 N927AR (reserved) Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly (I thought....) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:16 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-List: Predator Corvette --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" This outfit was in the Phoenix area (Chandler or Mesa maybe) but when we were talking about it at the Cactus Flyin (Casa Grande) somebody from Phoenix said he had packed up and went back to Boise. Sounded like they thought he was quitting the project-for now at least. Albert Gardner RV-9A N872RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:40 AM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-Linst: Predator Corvette --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper --- ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net > >...snip > > The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since > the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower > burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. > >snip... Unfortunately, most real world evidence indicates that "computer controlled" auto engines do not produce better brake specific fuel consumption numbers than fuel injected aicraft engines in steady state aircraft operation. The only real advantage that they have is variable timing. Computer control of the fuel mixture is really only an advantage in the constantly varying speed and power environment that typically exists in an automobile. Both the high speed required to maked reasonable power and the speed reduction units required to turn a prop rob efficiency from auto engines. Skylor RV-8 QB Mounting Wings...Engine install to follow! Do not archive > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole > > > > Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. > > > > After reading their material, I have doubts about > the validity of their claims. > > > > HRII abuilding slowly > > > > Gary Cole > > > > Barkeley, CA > > > > ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: > ogoodwin@comcast.net > > > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > > > Do not archive > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: > rv6n6r@comcast.net > > > > > > > Any of you guys know what became of the > corvette conversion engine > > > > that was out there for a while? > > > [snip] > > > > > > I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I > know pretty much nothing about > > auto > > > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > beautiful > > > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage > (I know "beautiful Seabee" > > > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The > engine is a Robinson Conversion > > LS-6 > > > Corvette with 405 HP and a four bladed MT > propeller. Sounds like too much for > > an > > > RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just > offering the info. Anyway I found > > a > > > website that has some in-progress photos, > > > http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. > Not too much there but they say > > > will be updated soon. Just FYI. > > > > > > Randall Henderson > > > RV-6 > > > www.edt.com/rhproject > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > > > Do not archive > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net > > > > Any of you guys know what became of the corvette > conversion engine > > that was out there for a while? > > [snip] > > > > I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I know > pretty much nothing about auto > > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > beautiful > > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I > know "beautiful Seabee" > > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine > is a Robinson Conversion LS-6 > > Corvette with 405 HP and a four bladed MT > propeller. Sounds like too much for an > > RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just > offering the info. Anyway I found a > > website that has some in-progress photos, > > http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. Not > too muc > > h there but they say > > will be updated soon. Just FYI. > > > > Randall Henderson > > RV-6 > > www.edt.com/rhproject > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm curious what claims you doubt? The power claims > seem pretty reasonable, since lots of dynamometer > data exists for various configurations of the > LS1/LS2/LS6 engines, and it doesn't seem too hard to > get well over 300 horsepower at the wheels (most > figure about 12 to 15% more at the flywheel) for the > LS1 and more from the larger versions. The new LS7 > is externally identical and is 427 cubic inches and > obviously more powerful. > > I don't know about their PSRU, but I think it's > based on the Geschwender chain drive that's been > around for 30 years or so and seems to work quite > well. > > The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since > the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower > burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. > > A standard LS with all accesories weighs about 400 > pounds (no psru or radiator). > > Another source for LS1/LS6 conversions is > www.fighterescortwings.com > Do not archive > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole > > > Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. > > After reading their material, I have doubts about > the validity of their claims. > > HRII abuilding slowly > > Gary Cole > > Barkeley, CA > > ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > -- RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > Do not archive > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net > > Any of you guys know what became of the corvette > conversion engine > that was out there for a while? > [snip] > < > BR> I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I > know pretty much nothing about > auto > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > beautiful > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I > know "beautiful Seabee" > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine > is a Robinson Conversion > LS-6 > === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:15 AM PST US From: ogoodwin@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-Linst: Predator Corvette --> RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net And the variable timing is a real advantage, as is the continuous compensation for varying air density and temperature while climbing and descending as well as idling on the ground. Quite a bit of aircraft operation isn't in stable cruise flight. A question: what do you consider to be high speed to make reasonable power? I'm curious because these engines vary widely in displacement, cam timing, and tuning. Some require higher RPM than others, but if smaller higher revving engines are more fuel ineffecient than large slow ones, I'd think the auto industry would be making 540 CI engines with transmissions to keep the speed low. Instead, they're making smaller engines that make far more power than the old style engines of even 10-15 years ago. The LS7 at 427 CI could be built into an engine that will put out large amounts of torque from 2500 rpm up and should easily (well) exceed 350 horsepower at 4500 rpm for takeoff and over 250 at 3400 or so cruise. These are not high rpm numbers especially since piston speed is more important than RPM for engine longevity. The relatively short stroke keeps piston speeds down even if the RPM is higher than we're used to seeing in aircraft engines. Since the LS1, LS2, LS6, and LS7 all weigh the same and are outwardly identical, the larger displacement engines can be flat rated if all the power isn't necessary or desirable and maintain usable power at much higher altitudes than normally aspirated engines not flat rated. A further benefit of flat rating is the reduction of stress on the engine. Marine V8s are run much harder than that, and generally don't receive the care of an engine installed in aircraft. -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper > > > --- ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net > > > >...snip > > > > The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since > > the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower > > burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. > > > >snip... > > Unfortunately, most real world evidence indicates that > "computer controlled" auto engines do not produce > better brake specific fuel consumption numbers than > fuel injected aicraft engines in steady state aircraft > operation. The only real advantage that they have is > variable timing. Computer control of the fuel mixture > is really only an advantage in the constantly varying > speed and power environment that typically exists in > an automobile. > > Both the high speed required to maked reasonable power > and the speed reduction units required to turn a prop > rob efficiency from auto engines. > > Skylor > RV-8 QB > Mounting Wings...Engine install to follow! > > > Do not archive > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole > > > > > > Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. > > > > > > After reading their material, I have doubts about > > the validity of their claims. > > > > > > HRII abuilding slowly > > > > > > Gary Cole > > > > > > Barkeley, CA > > > > > > ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: > > ogoodwin@comcast.net > > > > > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: > > rv6n6r@comcast.net > > > > > > > > > Any of you guys know what became of the > > corvette conversion engine > > > > > that was out there for a while? > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I > > know pretty much nothing about > > > auto > > > > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > > beautiful > > > > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage > > (I know "beautiful Seabee" > > > > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The > > engine is a Robinson Conversion > > > LS-6 > > > > Corvette with 405 HP and a four bladed MT > > propeller. Sounds like too much for > > > an > > > > RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just > > offering the info. Anyway I found > > > a > > > > website that has some in-progress photos, > > > > http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. > > Not too much there but they say > > > > will be updated soon. Just FYI. > > > > > > > > Randall Henderson > > > > RV-6 > > > > www.edt.com/rhproject > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net > > > > > > Any of you guys know what became of the corvette > > conversion engine > > > that was out there for a while? > > > [snip] > > > > > > I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I know > > pretty much nothing about auto > > > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > > beautiful > > > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I > > know "beautiful Seabee" > > > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine > > is a Robinson Conversion LS-6 > > > Corvette with 405 HP and a four bladed MT > > propeller. Sounds like too much for an > > > RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just > > offering the info. Anyway I found a > > > website that has some in-progress photos, > > > http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. Not > > too muc > > > h there but they say > > > will be updated soon. Just FYI. > > > > > > Randall Henderson > > > RV-6 > > > www.edt.com/rhproject > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm curious what claims you doubt? The power claims > > seem pretty reasonable, since lots of dynamometer > > data exists for various configurations of the > > LS1/LS2/LS6 engines, and it doesn't seem too hard to > > get well over 300 horsepower at the wheels (most > > figure about 12 to 15% more at the flywheel) for the > > LS1 and more from the larger versions. The new LS7 > > is externally identical and is 427 cubic inches and > > obviously more powerful. > > > > I don't know about their PSRU, but I think it's > > based on the Geschwender chain drive that's been > > around for 30 years or so and seems to work quite > > well. > > > > The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since > > the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower > > burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. > > > > A standard LS with all accesories weighs about 400 > > pounds (no psru or radiator). > > > > Another source for LS1/LS6 conversions is > > www.fighterescortwings.com > > Do not archive > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > -- RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole > > > > > > Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. > > > > After reading their material, I have doubts about > > the validity of their claims. > > > > HRII abuilding slowly > > > > Gary Cole > > > > Barkeley, CA > > > > ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: > > -- RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net > > > > Try www.v8seabee.com > > > > Do not archive > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net > > > > Any of you guys know what became of the corvette > > conversion engine > > that was out there for a while? > > [snip] > > < > > BR> I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I > > know pretty much nothing about > > auto > > engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a > > beautiful > > 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I > > know "beautiful Seabee" > > sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine > > is a Robinson Conversion > > LS-6 > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > And the variable timing is a real advantage, as is the continuous compensation for varying air density and temperature while climbing and descending as well as idling on the ground. Quite a bit of aircraft operation isn't in stable cruise flight. A question: what do you consider to be high speed to make reasonable power? I'm curious because these engines vary widely in displacement, cam timing, and tuning. Some require higher RPM than others, but if smaller higher revving engines are more fuel ineffecient than large slow ones, I'd think the auto industry would be making 540 CI engines with transmissions to keep the speed low. Instead, they're making smaller engines that make far more power than the old style engines of even 10-15 years ago. The LS7 at 427 CI could be built into an engine that will put out large amounts of torque from 2500 rpm up and should easily (well)exceed 350 horsepower at 4500 rpm for takeoff and over 250 at 3400 or so cruise. These are not high rpm numbers especially since piston speed is more important than RPM for engine longevity. The relatively short stroke keeps piston speeds down even if the RPM is higher than we're used to seeing in air craft engines. Since the LS1, LS2, LS6, and LS7 all weigh the same and are outwardly identical, the larger displacement engines can be flat rated if all the power isn't necessary or desirable and maintain usable power at much higher altitudes than normally aspirated engines not flat rated. A further benefit of flat rating is the reduction of stress on the engine. Marine V8s are run much harder than that, and generally don't receive the care of an engine installed in aircraft. -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper --- ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: -- RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net ...snip The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. snip... Unfortunately, most real world evidence indicates that "computer controlled" auto engines do not produce better brake specific fuel consumption numbers than fuel injected aicraft engines in steady state aircraft operation. The only real advantage that they have is variable timing. Computer cont rol of the fuel mixture is really only an advantage in the constantly varying speed and power environment that typically exists in an automobile. Both the high speed required to maked reasonable power and the speed reduction units required to turn a prop rob efficiency from auto engines. Skylor RV-8 QB Mounting Wings...Engine install to follow! Do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. After reading their material, I have doubts about the validity of their claims. HRII abuilding slowly Gary Cole Barkeley, CA ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: -- RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net Try www.v8seabee.com Do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net Any of you guys know what became of the corvette conversion engine that was out there for a while? [snip] I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I know pretty much nothing about auto engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a beautiful &g t; 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I know "beautiful Seabee" sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine is a Robinson Conversion LS-6 Corvette with 405 HP and a four bladed MT propeller. Sounds like too much for an RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just offering the info. Anyway I found a website that has some in-progress photos, http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. Not too much there but they say will be updated soon. Just FYI. Randall Henderson RV-6 www.edt.com/rhproject Try www.v8seabee.com Do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net Any of you guys know what became of the corvette conversion engine that was out there for a while? [snip] I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I know pretty much nothing about auto engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a beautiful 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I know "beautiful Seabee" sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine is a Robinson Conversion LS-6 Corve tte with 405 HP and a four bladed MT propeller. Sounds like too much for an RV-10 and I'm sure not recommending it, just offering the info. Anyway I found a website that has some in-progress photos, http://www.republicseabee.com/Seabeenews.html. Not too muc h there but they say will be updated soon. Just FYI. Randall Henderson RV-6 www.edt.com/rhproject I'm curious what claims you doubt? The power claims seem pretty reasonable, since lots of dynamometer data exists for various configurations of the LS1/LS2/LS6 engines, and it doesn't seem too hard to get well over 300 hor sepower at the wheels (most figure about 12 to 15% more at the flywheel) for the LS1 and more from the larger versions. The new LS7 is externally identical and is 427 cubic inches and obviously more powerful. I don't know about their PSRU, but I think it's based on the Geschwender chain drive that's been around for 30 years or so and seems to work quite well. The fuel burn figures do seem a bit low, but since the engine is computer controlled, I'd expect lower burns than a comparable air cooled aircraft engine. A standard LS with all accesories weighs about 400 pounds (no psru or radiator). Another source for LS1/LS6 conversions is www.fighterescortwings.com Do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Gary Cole Another one that I found is www.v8aircraft.com. After reading their material, I have doubts about the validity of their claims. HRII abuilding slowly Gary Cole Barkeley, CA ogoodwin@comcast.net wrote: -- RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net Try www.v8seabee.com Do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: rv6n6r@comcast.net Any of you guys know what became of the corvette conversion engine that was out there for a while? [snip] BR I don't know about the "Predator" (in fact I know pretty much nothing about auto engine conversions) but up at Arlington I saw a beautiful 'homebuilt' based on a Republic Seabee fuselage (I know "beautiful Seabee" sounds like an oxymoron but its true!) The engine is a Robinson Conversion LS-6 === message truncated === ?RV-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:59 AM PST US From: "Scott Jackson" Subject: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" Subject: engine problem Folks: I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle is brought back from full. It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a descent. The engine has about nine hours since overhaul, including three hours on the run-in stand, but has been sitting for quite a few years. It is equipped with two magnetos. It originally idled quite fast- about 800 rpm, but the idle speed adjusting screw was backed out until it idled around 550-600 rpm, but, after the last landing last week, the engine was shaking the airframe and we could see individual blades going by out front, it was idling so slowly, less than 300rpm. Don't know if this would contribute to anything, or if it indicates a temperature-related problem with the installation. The propellor is two-bladed wood. Other than those two characteristics, the engine runs very well, and puts out lots of power for takeoff. My first guess is something's wrong with the carburetor or its settings. It runs on 100LL only, and the entire firewall-forward is very traditional, with nothing exotic. SCott in VAncouver ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:18 AM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: RE: RV-List: solo riveting of leading edges --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Yes, it can be done with suitable care, caution, etc. Incidence of "smilies" should be no worse than elsewhere. I clecoed the ribs and skin together, set the assembly on end on the floor, and then sat in a chair to rivet. This way I could brace and/or support the gun with my knee and leg and squeeze the trigger with one hand while guiding the bar with the other hand. Some extra support to steady the gun really helps. I used a wooden box to adjust the height of the work when working at the end ribs. Solo riveting is quite satisfying when you get used to it. You go at your own pace, aren't worried about taking extra time for a particular rivet, develop some extra "feel" for the gun-to-bar pressure to apply, etc. Good luck and happy building. Jim Oke Wpg., MB RV-6A > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > David Fenstermacher > Sent: July 16, 2005 10:35 AM > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: solo riveting of leading edges > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" > --> > > Has anyone been successful in solo riveting the forward most > rivets of the leading edges. > My rivet partner is AWOL (Actually he is TDY for 3 months). > > I know it CAN be done, but has anyone done it without any > "happy faces". > If so, tips/tricks? > > Thanks all, > > Dave > > > David Fenstermacher > dfenstermacher@earthlink.net > > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:07 PM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride" Scott, The O320-E2G I had in my -6 did the exact same thing. Every now and again, at no particular common point in a flight the engine would just seem to hesitate for a split second. It never did it on take off or in low throttle descent. Adjustments to the carb made no difference. My engine had 1700 hours TT with no overhaul when I first flew the -6. It did the hesitation thing for the 300 hours I flew the airplane before I had the engine remanufactured. After the reman it still continued to do the same thing. I sold the plane after about 500 hours and never did find a solution. I also had a wood prop and only used 100LL. Rick McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Jackson To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > Subject: engine problem Folks: I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle is brought back from full. It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a descent. The engine has about nine hours since overhaul, including three hours on the run-in stand, but has been sitting for quite a few years. It is equipped with two magnetos. It originally idled quite fast- about 800 rpm, but the idle speed adjusting screw was backed out until it idled around 550-600 rpm, but, after the last landing last week, the engine was shaking the airframe and we could see individual blades going by out front, it was idling so slowly, less than 300rpm. Don't know if this would contribute to anything, or if it indicates a temperature-related problem with the installation. The propellor is two-bladed wood. Other than those two characteristics, the engine runs very well, and puts out lots of power for takeoff. My first guess is something's wrong with the carburetor or its settings. It runs on 100LL only, and the entire firewall-forward is very traditional, with nothing exotic. SCott in VAncouver ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:50 PM PST US From: "Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" That does not sound encouraging. Did you have the carb looked at? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McBride" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride" > > Scott, > > The O320-E2G I had in my -6 did the exact same thing. Every now and > again, at no particular common point in a flight the engine would just > seem to hesitate for a split second. It never did it on take off or in > low throttle descent. Adjustments to the carb made no difference. My > engine had 1700 hours TT with no overhaul when I first flew the -6. It > did the hesitation thing for the 300 hours I flew the airplane before I > had the engine remanufactured. After the reman it still continued to do > the same thing. I sold the plane after about 500 hours and never did find > a solution. I also had a wood prop and only used 100LL. > > Rick McBride > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Jackson > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:10 PM > Subject: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > > > > > Subject: engine problem > > > Folks: > I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with > an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. > The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every > single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying > circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle > is brought back from full. > It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a > descent. > The engine has about nine hours since overhaul, including three hours > on the run-in stand, but has been sitting for quite a few years. It is > equipped with two magnetos. > It originally idled quite fast- about 800 rpm, but the idle speed > adjusting screw was backed out until it idled around 550-600 rpm, but, > after the last landing last week, the engine was shaking the airframe and > we could see individual blades going by out front, it was idling so > slowly, less than 300rpm. Don't know if this would contribute to anything, > or if it indicates a temperature-related problem with the installation. > The propellor is two-bladed wood. > Other than those two characteristics, the engine runs very well, and > puts out lots of power for takeoff. > My first guess is something's wrong with the carburetor or its > settings. It runs on 100LL only, and the entire firewall-forward is very > traditional, with nothing exotic. > SCott in VAncouver > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:05 PM PST US From: "Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" What I'm wondering is what happens in the carburetor when the power is brought back from full; i.e. is there another circuit or pathway in the carburetor that comes into play? Perhaps that circuit is not as full of fuel as it should be, and it takes that moment-during which the engine stumbles-to get the fuel flowing. Coming back from full power shouldn't make any difference to the ignition system. I'll have to dive into my stack of LPM magazines, I think there's an article on the inner workings of the carbs we use somewhere. Maybe the Skyranch Engineering Manual, that's around here somewhere too. Scott Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McBride" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride" > > Scott, > > The O320-E2G I had in my -6 did the exact same thing. Every now and > again, at no particular common point in a flight the engine would just > seem to hesitate for a split second. It never did it on take off or in > low throttle descent. Adjustments to the carb made no difference. My > engine had 1700 hours TT with no overhaul when I first flew the -6. It > did the hesitation thing for the 300 hours I flew the airplane before I > had the engine remanufactured. After the reman it still continued to do > the same thing. I sold the plane after about 500 hours and never did find > a solution. I also had a wood prop and only used 100LL. > > Rick McBride > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Jackson > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:10 PM > Subject: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > > > > > Subject: engine problem > > > Folks: > I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with > an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. > The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every > single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying > circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle > is brought back from full. > It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a > descent. > The engine has about nine hours since overhaul, including three hours > on the run-in stand, but has been sitting for quite a few years. It is > equipped with two magnetos. > It originally idled quite fast- about 800 rpm, but the idle speed > adjusting screw was backed out until it idled around 550-600 rpm, but, > after the last landing last week, the engine was shaking the airframe and > we could see individual blades going by out front, it was idling so > slowly, less than 300rpm. Don't know if this would contribute to anything, > or if it indicates a temperature-related problem with the installation. > The propellor is two-bladed wood. > Other than those two characteristics, the engine runs very well, and > puts out lots of power for takeoff. > My first guess is something's wrong with the carburetor or its > settings. It runs on 100LL only, and the entire firewall-forward is very > traditional, with nothing exotic. > SCott in VAncouver > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:37 PM PST US From: Knicholas2@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2@aol.com In a message dated 7/17/2005 11:12:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jayeandscott@telus.net writes: Folks: I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle is brought back from full. I have the same problem in my 0-320 E2D. I posted a similar message here several months ago so you might do an archive search under my name or "engine hic-up" to read the responses. Several people did respond and nobody had a good answer. One of our fellow listers from Lycoming suggested that a different carb jet might fix the problem. I still get that "pucker" when my engine hic-ups and it is annoying as hell. I did notice that it seems to occur less often if I leave the fuel pump on through a climb and until level. I let the pump run at level for a moment before I turn it off and reduce throttle. Several people said that it is almost "normal" and not to worry about it. Easier said than when the darn thing burbs when I am over water.... Kim Nicholas RV9A Seattle (with lots of water around....) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:44 PM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: solo riveting of leading edges --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh I did most of the riveting on my six A solo. Certainly the tanks, and leading edge of wings, and the whole tail. I started getting some help with the flat skins on the wings, and a few places on the fuse. The secret to solo riveting is to first fix the piece. Don't ever try to rivet a tank (or anything else) which is loose. nail it down solid in a position where you can get at both sides. Good advice here from Jim Oke. So I can vouch that it can be done. That said, I have, in the 12 years since, helped a lot of people rivet RVs. It can go a lot faster, and is certainly a lot easier. Almost any riveting task is easier with help. If you can get to an EAA meeting or find another RV builder/flyer in your area, it is very easy to recruit a helper, and most who are builders or have built an RV will be adequate or at least easy to train. I was able to train all my kids, the neighbor and my wife well enough to get some of the tough fuse rivets and flat wing ones. Most builders benefit from forging on when the building urge is hot. Better to trip someone walking down the street, and train them to buck than to temporarily abandon the project. Just one man's opinion. Denis Walsh On Jul 17, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Jim Oke wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke > > Yes, it can be done with suitable care, caution, etc. Incidence of > "smilies" > should be no worse than elsewhere. > > I clecoed the ribs and skin together, set the assembly on end on > the floor, > and then sat in a chair to rivet. This way I could brace and/or > support the > gun with my knee and leg and squeeze the trigger with one hand > while guiding > the bar with the other hand. Some extra support to steady the gun > really > helps. I used a wooden box to adjust the height of the work when > working at > the end ribs. > > Solo riveting is quite satisfying when you get used to it. You go > at your > own pace, aren't worried about taking extra time for a particular > rivet, > develop some extra "feel" for the gun-to-bar pressure to apply, etc. > > Good luck and happy building. > > Jim Oke > Wpg., MB > RV-6A > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> David Fenstermacher >> Sent: July 16, 2005 10:35 AM >> To: rv-list >> Subject: RV-List: solo riveting of leading edges >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" >> --> >> >> Has anyone been successful in solo riveting the forward most >> rivets of the leading edges. >> My rivet partner is AWOL (Actually he is TDY for 3 months). >> >> I know it CAN be done, but has anyone done it without any >> "happy faces". >> If so, tips/tricks? >> >> Thanks all, >> >> Dave >> >> >> David Fenstermacher >> dfenstermacher@earthlink.net >> >> >> Photoshare, and much much more: >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:01 PM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride" When I got the engine, I had the carb overhauled. I received another carb as part of the reman job done by Lycoming. Both carbs did the same thing. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Jackson To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:33 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > That does not sound encouraging. Did you have the carb looked at? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McBride" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride" > > > Scott, > > The O320-E2G I had in my -6 did the exact same thing. Every now and > again, at no particular common point in a flight the engine would just > seem to hesitate for a split second. It never did it on take off or in > low throttle descent. Adjustments to the carb made no difference. My > engine had 1700 hours TT with no overhaul when I first flew the -6. It > did the hesitation thing for the 300 hours I flew the airplane before I > had the engine remanufactured. After the reman it still continued to do > the same thing. I sold the plane after about 500 hours and never did find > a solution. I also had a wood prop and only used 100LL. > > Rick McBride > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Jackson> > To: rv-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:10 PM > Subject: RV-List: Fw: engine problem > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" > >> > > > Subject: engine problem > > > Folks: > I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with > an 0-320-E2D, carburetted. > The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every > single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying > circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle > is brought back from full. > It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a > descent. > The engine has about nine hours since overhaul, including three hours > on the run-in stand, but has been sitting for quite a few years. It is > equipped with two magnetos. > It originally idled quite fast- about 800 rpm, but the idle speed > adjusting screw was backed out until it idled around 550-600 rpm, but, > after the last landing last week, the engine was shaking the airframe and > we could see individual blades going by out front, it was idling so > slowly, less than 300rpm. Don't know if this would contribute to anything, > or if it indicates a temperature-related problem with the installation. > The propellor is two-bladed wood. > Other than those two characteristics, the engine runs very well, and > puts out lots of power for takeoff. > My first guess is something's wrong with the carburetor or its > settings. It runs on 100LL only, and the entire firewall-forward is very > traditional, with nothing exotic. > SCott in VAncouver > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:16 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every > single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying > circuits, it will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle > is brought back from full. > It does not do it when power is further reduced, as in setting up for a > descent. Does it do it whenever the throttle is reduced from full, or just after a climb? Is the plane equipped with a fuel flow meter? Could there be any coupling between engine movement and throttle mechanism? I.e., when the throttle is reduced the torque drops, the engine moves slightly causing further unintended throttle reduction. Maybe a sticky throttle cable? Long shot, but worth ruling out. Alex Peterson RV6A N66AP 636 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:45 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 07/17/2005 6:24:31 PM Central Standard Time, rickrv8@msn.com writes: The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every > single flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. >>>> Ah, shoot- after takin' a loooong draw of 100LL, when ya give 'er a break, it's just how she relieves a bit o' pressure- same as what happens to you after guzzlin' a half can o' brew.... 8-) do NOT archive 8-) Mark ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:15 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: V-List: Fw: engine problem From: "Robin Marks" --> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" I am a non-builder of a 4 with a carb 0320 ~250 hours. Mine occasionally burps as I power back in the pattern and every so often while powering back during maneuvers. The builder, a 23 year NASCAR mechanic thought the issue was related to an air flow / air pressure change during this power setting and aircraft attitude. Robin RV-4 San Luis Obispo, CA ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:07 PM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley I would try leaning the mixture in the climb just before you level off and reduce power. See if the the problem is more pronounced. Try to determine if the engine is going excessively lean or rich. It sounds to me like you may have a bad accelerator pump check valve or an air leak around the throttle shaft or pump shaft. I've used starting fluid in a spray can to locate induction leaks. Spray a little around the induction tubes and throttle shaft with the engine running at idle and listen for the engine rpm to surge. Just stay clear of the prop!!!!! BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 304-562-6800 home How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:52 PM PST US From: "james frierson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: "james frierson" My O-320, 160hp, wooden prop -6A does the same thing. I just got use to it and pay it no mind.. My carb has some slack in the throttle shaft bushing making me think that my be the problem. I am going to replace them at the next annual and will keep you posted. Scott N162RV Flying >From: Knicholas2@aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem >Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:40:03 EDT > >--> RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2@aol.com > > >In a message dated 7/17/2005 11:12:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >jayeandscott@telus.net writes: > >Folks: >I've been riding the right-seat since first flight of a new RV-6 with an >0-320-E2D, carburetted. >The engine has displayed a momentary burp-not really a miss- every single >flight when the power is reduced from full throttle. Even flying circuits, >it >will do it at the top of every climb, as soon as the throttle is brought >back >from full. > > >I have the same problem in my 0-320 E2D. I posted a similar message here >several months ago so you might do an archive search under my name or >"engine >hic-up" to read the responses. > >Several people did respond and nobody had a good answer. One of our >fellow >listers from Lycoming suggested that a different carb jet might fix the >problem. I still get that "pucker" when my engine hic-ups and it is >annoying as >hell. > >I did notice that it seems to occur less often if I leave the fuel pump on >through a climb and until level. I let the pump run at level for a moment >before I turn it off and reduce throttle. > >Several people said that it is almost "normal" and not to worry about it. >Easier said than when the darn thing burbs when I am over water.... > >Kim Nicholas >RV9A >Seattle (with lots of water around....) > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:59 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler (was: Exhaust Wrap Ceramic coating) --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" In my 160hp O-320 RV-4, I Have the oil cooler blocked completely off all winter, and I can barely get the oil temps up to 180F. I don't imagine it would work well in my scenario.... Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 Building -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat from oil cooler (was: Exhaust Wrap Ceramic coating) --> RV-List message posted by: Has anyone used the oil cooler to heat their RV cabin? (as a stand alone cabin heater with out an exhaust heat muff) As Michael Sausen stated the Long-EZ guys do this, but their cabin is smaller and may be better insulated. Is there enough heat coming off the oil cooler at altitude to heat the cabin. In cruise at altitude the oil temp is lower because the engine is at a lower power output and the ambient air temps are cooler. Cheers George Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> George, You're right about the heat muff. Not only is it probably not practical but I doubt they even could as it would probably be extremely difficult to "mask" an area inside the pipe. As far as the oil cooler for heating goes, most of the pusher crowd use this arrangement very well for cabin heat. With them you have to worry about getting the oil from the back of the aircraft to the front which introduces the possibility of a burst oil line in the cockpit. With us conventional crowd you could still keep the cooler in the engine compartment and build a shroud around it with a waste gate to divert overboard when not in use. Probably not practical for smaller engines but if you have an oil cooler anyway it might not be much more work and it is a lot safer than taking it off the exhaust. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Tailcone ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) --> RV-List message posted by: Glen: Your right, with ceramic coating will have little if any heat off the heat muff for cabin heat. This may be the single reason, if only one reason for not doing the coating thing, but it is very much an issue since we use exhaust heat to warm the cabin. Using oil cooler for heat, OK. How is that going to work thermodynamically BTU wise, not to mention the engineering of the system. My guess is the 1000F off the exhaust pipe has more heating capacity than the oil cooler at 200-250F. I would imagine having the coating start and stop in the heat muff area would be a no no. With the lack of continuity in coating you would have a hot spot and thermal stresses from different metal temps. Cheers George Match: #4 Message: #131849 Date: Jul 04, 2005 From: Glen Matejcek Subject: Exhaust Wrap (Ceramic coating) Hi All- I never took themro nor do I have any first hand experience with ceramic coatings, but something has occurred to me WRT the ceramic coated exhaust thread. What happens to your cabin heat if you put this coating on your exhaust? I understand that there is a difference between radiating IR and direct conduction / heat transfer, but I have no idea what this implies for keeping our toes warm in the wintertime. Thoughts? gm Glen Matejcek --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:22 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: engine problem --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Brian Alley wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley > >I would try leaning the mixture in the climb just before you level off and reduce power. See if the the problem is more pronounced. Try to determine if the engine is going excessively lean or rich. It sounds to me like you may have a bad accelerator pump check valve or an air leak around the throttle shaft or pump shaft. I've used starting fluid in a spray can to locate induction leaks. Spray a little around the induction tubes and throttle shaft with the engine running at idle and listen for the engine rpm to surge. Just stay clear of the prop!!!!! > A much safer method to detect induction (and exhaust) leaks is to force air (use a CLEAN shopvac connected to blow air) into the intake and spray everything with really soapy water. You'd be amazed at the bubbles!!! Linn > > >BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) >CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES >101 Caroline Circle >Hurricane, WV 25526 >304-562-6800 home > > >How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:49 PM PST US From: Ted Lumpkin Subject: RV-List: Vans Vent Kit on RV-4 --> RV-List message posted by: Ted Lumpkin I installed one of Van's little "barn door" RV-10 vents in my RV-4 this weekend. I am very impressed with how much air it moves. It moves a LOT of air even during taxi. I've never been a fan of NACA ducts because I don't like the way they look. These vents are nice because when they are closed you can barely tell they're there. They're very small; about 1.5" X 2 and I can't detect any increase in noise when they're open or reduction in airspeed. It seems to seal up well when its closed. The only drawback is you can't direct the air where you want as with an eyeball vent. At $18 bucks for two vents it's a pretty good deal to boot. For us early builders, you get to take advantage of Van's computer controlled punch technology. Everything goes together in a hurry. It took me about 4 hours to install one vent including figuring out where I wanted it to go, cutting the hole in the fuselage and priming the parts. I installed mine on the right side of the fuselage below the cowl cheeks about 10" aft of the firewall. I may add a second one for the passenger. Highly recommended. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1121658189-58-627&browse=heatvent&product=10vent_kit Ted Lumpkin