Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:50 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (BPA)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: OAT Probe location ()
3. 09:15 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
4. 09:39 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
5. 09:48 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (Vic Jacko)
6. 10:01 AM - Re: OAT Probe location (sportav8r@aol.com)
7. 10:06 AM - Re: OAT Probe location (sportav8r@aol.com)
8. 10:09 AM - Rivet gun, c-arm, RV-6 wing tips and wheel pants and scoop on E-bay. (David Leonard)
9. 10:43 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (BPA)
10. 10:57 AM - Re: fresh engines and new airplanes (BPA)
11. 01:02 PM - I wonder ?? (Jerry Springer)
12. 01:32 PM - Re: OAT Probe location (Kevin Horton)
13. 02:07 PM - Re: OAT Probe location (Scott Bilinski)
14. 04:25 PM - Re: I wonder ?? (Mike Robertson)
15. 05:09 PM - Re: I wonder ?? (Jerry Springer)
16. 05:10 PM - Re: OAT Probe location (Kevin Horton)
17. 05:57 PM - Re: OAT Probe location (Walter Tondu)
18. 06:41 PM - RV Forum Oswego NY Sept 10-12, 2005 (RV6160hp@AOL.COM)
19. 07:12 PM - aviation activities/museums in the NYC area? (Charlie England)
20. 07:15 PM - Kevin Horton was OAT (Tom Gummo)
21. 07:31 PM - RV-6 ACCIDENT NEAR MONTREAL,QUEBEC (Bruno)
22. 07:57 PM - Re: I wonder ?? (Jeff Dowling)
23. 08:23 PM - Re: I wonder ?? (Jerry Springer)
24. 08:40 PM - And another crash at Oshkosh? (Tim Bryan)
25. 08:59 PM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (Jerry Springer)
26. 09:10 PM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (Henry Hochberg)
27. 09:18 PM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (Henry Hochberg)
28. 09:26 PM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (Jerry Springer)
29. 09:27 PM - Re: OAT Probe location (sarg314)
30. 09:40 PM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (Henry Hochberg)
Message 1
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| Subject: | fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop. Other
shops have different criteria, but this works pretty darn well.
After the engine is pre-oiled and gage pressure of minimum requirements
(45 PSI) is met, the engine is started and operated at 1000-1200 rpm and
13-16 in MP for 5 minutes or until 100 degrees Oil temp.
Then, 1500 rpm and 15 inches for 5 minutes, quick mag check,
1700/16-17 until 140 oil temp is achieved,
then 2000 rpm and 19-20 inches and wait for vernathern to close (usually
189 F), perform a mag check
then 65-75% which is usually 24/24 maintain 200 F oil temps, and 390-400
F HOTTEST CHT. Lean to .53-.54 BSFC or 1400 F EGT for 30-45 minutes, oil
pressure is set at this time. This is when you start seeing your MP
rise, thus rings are STARTING to seat. The CHT's are cooled down and a
full power run is done for 3-5 minutes leaned to best power. This
ensures the engine makes rated power. The engine is slowly cooled down
and RPM reduced to 2000 and another mag check is done. The power is then
reduced to 1000-1200 rpm and 13-15 MP, then slowed to 650-750 long
enough to show hot oil pressure at idle. From this point the engine is
properly shut down and a hot differential compression check is
accomplished. If all systems are go, the engine is preserved and ready
for post dyno inspection. At this time, the computer is downloading the
test data that is delivered with the engine. We get a copy, and you get
a copy.
This in no way means the rings are seated. On nitrided cylinders, it
usually requires approximately 10 hours for oil consumption to
stabilize. When oil consumption stabilizes, the rings are seated the
best they are going to.
I don't think there are too many folks who want to pay the additional
costs of 8-10 more hours of dyno time to get the rings seated.
The best thing for you to do is once the engine is installed,(don't
forget to add oil)! Start and run the engine on the ground to let the
CHT's get up a LITTLE bit. The cylinders are still susceptible to
glazing if the temps get to high. Shut the engine down, check for
installation leaks, cowl it up and go fly for a minimum 1 hour at 24-25
Square. The whole key is consistent RPM/MP.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Having been reading up on this with lyco articles and so forth, it is
>the manifold pressures not the rpm that seats the rings. It was not
>semantics you were discussing, rather RPM vs MP. With FP your stuck
with
>high rpm to get the MP. What you do not want is a c/s prop at 2700rpm
>pulling 18".
>
>Lyco says run 75% power.
>
Yeah, Mike, but they don't want even a hint of having to fix something
on warranty. 75% is a great warranty.
> Engine shops say Max MP, rpm as high as you can stand it.
>
And I agree. Although engine shops will LOVE to fix your engine ..... I
doubt they see any problems relating to 100% power.
My experience with 100% power (or more) has been really good ..... never
had to pull a cylinder to rehone..
Linn
do not archive
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>rvpilot@access4less.net wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <rvpilot@access4less.net>
>>
>>Linn is correct here. It's not necessarily high RPM that seats the
>>
>>
>rings, it"s
>
>
>>high manifold pressure. The higher MP forces the rings tighter against
>>
>>
>the cylinder walls
>
>
>>and wears them in quicker. The object is to have the rings form their
>>
>>
>best seal before a
>
>
>>layer of varnish forms on the Cyl. walls, at which point, further ring
>>
>>
>seating effectively ceases.
>
>
>>For this reason, you should not go to high altitudes until break in is
>>
>>
>complete. With
>
>
>>steel or Cerminil Cyls., break in is usually complete within 1 Hr. as
>>
>>
>evidenced by a
>
>
>>stabilized oil consumption.
>>
>>
>
>
>Granted. But those of us with fixed-pitch props have to resort to
higher
>
>rpm in order to pull more manifold pressure.
>
>I think we are getting hung up on semantics. The point I was making is
>the engine should not be flown gingerly, it needs to develop a lot of
>power (rpm or MP, whatever your particular engine/prop requires) in
>order to rapidly and reliably seat the rings. You guys with the CS
props
>
>can load the engine at lower rpm, us folks with the cheap props have to
>wind up our engines (2400-2600 rpm) to get high MP unless we are flying
>at sea level.
>
>That's why a lot of us fly our new planes with new engines without the
>pants and fairings so breaking in the cylinders won't result in higher
>than desired airspeed.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Walt,
You might want to insulate the sensor. Otherwise solar heating of the wing skins
will heat the sensor while the plane sits out on the ramp in summer. Of course,
this would only be an issue until the wings cooled down in flight.
Charlie Kuss
---- rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net>
>
> Well, after getting many more responses about OAT probe location than I
> ever dreamed, I've finally decided to mount it under the right wing. I'm
> planning to attach it to the inside of the 2nd inspection panel, with just the
> eighth inch diameter probe sticking out into the airstream. The threaded
> base of the probe will be screwed into a small piece of aluminum which I'll
> thread for the 1/4" base.
>
> Thanks for the many good ideas.....
>
> Walt Shipley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DonVS <dsvs@comcast.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: OAT Probe location
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
>
> Also it can not be in direct sunlight. Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Why not behind the canopy on the top of the plane?
>
> The slipstream spirals over the plane. You'd inevitably have some sort of
> mix of heated air and exhaust back there.
>
> Why take a shortcut when the alternative is so simple? Just put your probe
> out on the bottom of the wing...it's the lesser of all evils.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
In a message dated 7/28/2005 8:52:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
BPA@bpaengines.com writes:
Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop.
THANKS FOR SHARING THIS INFO.
DOUG PRESTON
BHM
Message 4
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| Subject: | fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Allen,
A most excellent post from a reputable shop.
My question is this.
Can we on our airplanes on the ground on out first start up do the exact
same thing you are reliably? Is there anything special about the test
set up you have? Big fans running for cooling? These are nice simple
steps below and I have a first run coming this month on my plane and
plan to print this and have it in the cockpit with me during the first
runs.
I wondered if I could keep cht's down enough on the ground to get the
oil temp to 189 while getting these run times.
Thanks
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Subject: RE: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop. Other
shops have different criteria, but this works pretty darn well.
After the engine is pre-oiled and gage pressure of minimum requirements
(45 PSI) is met, the engine is started and operated at 1000-1200 rpm and
13-16 in MP for 5 minutes or until 100 degrees Oil temp.
Then, 1500 rpm and 15 inches for 5 minutes, quick mag check,
1700/16-17 until 140 oil temp is achieved,
then 2000 rpm and 19-20 inches and wait for vernathern to close (usually
189 F), perform a mag check
then 65-75% which is usually 24/24 maintain 200 F oil temps, and 390-400
F HOTTEST CHT. Lean to .53-.54 BSFC or 1400 F EGT for 30-45 minutes, oil
pressure is set at this time. This is when you start seeing your MP
rise, thus rings are STARTING to seat. The CHT's are cooled down and a
full power run is done for 3-5 minutes leaned to best power. This
ensures the engine makes rated power. The engine is slowly cooled down
and RPM reduced to 2000 and another mag check is done. The power is then
reduced to 1000-1200 rpm and 13-15 MP, then slowed to 650-750 long
enough to show hot oil pressure at idle. From this point the engine is
properly shut down and a hot differential compression check is
accomplished. If all systems are go, the engine is preserved and ready
for post dyno inspection. At this time, the computer is downloading the
test data that is delivered with the engine. We get a copy, and you get
a copy.
This in no way means the rings are seated. On nitrided cylinders, it
usually requires approximately 10 hours for oil consumption to
stabilize. When oil consumption stabilizes, the rings are seated the
best they are going to.
I don't think there are too many folks who want to pay the additional
costs of 8-10 more hours of dyno time to get the rings seated.
The best thing for you to do is once the engine is installed,(don't
forget to add oil)! Start and run the engine on the ground to let the
CHT's get up a LITTLE bit. The cylinders are still susceptible to
glazing if the temps get to high. Shut the engine down, check for
installation leaks, cowl it up and go fly for a minimum 1 hour at 24-25
Square. The whole key is consistent RPM/MP.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Having been reading up on this with lyco articles and so forth, it is
>the manifold pressures not the rpm that seats the rings. It was not
>semantics you were discussing, rather RPM vs MP. With FP your stuck
with
>high rpm to get the MP. What you do not want is a c/s prop at 2700rpm
>pulling 18".
>
>Lyco says run 75% power.
>
Yeah, Mike, but they don't want even a hint of having to fix something
on warranty. 75% is a great warranty.
> Engine shops say Max MP, rpm as high as you can stand it.
>
And I agree. Although engine shops will LOVE to fix your engine ..... I
doubt they see any problems relating to 100% power.
My experience with 100% power (or more) has been really good ..... never
had to pull a cylinder to rehone..
Linn
do not archive
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>rvpilot@access4less.net wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <rvpilot@access4less.net>
>>
>>Linn is correct here. It's not necessarily high RPM that seats the
>>
>>
>rings, it"s
>
>
>>high manifold pressure. The higher MP forces the rings tighter against
>>
>>
>the cylinder walls
>
>
>>and wears them in quicker. The object is to have the rings form their
>>
>>
>best seal before a
>
>
>>layer of varnish forms on the Cyl. walls, at which point, further ring
>>
>>
>seating effectively ceases.
>
>
>>For this reason, you should not go to high altitudes until break in is
>>
>>
>complete. With
>
>
>>steel or Cerminil Cyls., break in is usually complete within 1 Hr. as
>>
>>
>evidenced by a
>
>
>>stabilized oil consumption.
>>
>>
>
>
>Granted. But those of us with fixed-pitch props have to resort to
higher
>
>rpm in order to pull more manifold pressure.
>
>I think we are getting hung up on semantics. The point I was making is
>the engine should not be flown gingerly, it needs to develop a lot of
>power (rpm or MP, whatever your particular engine/prop requires) in
>order to rapidly and reliably seat the rings. You guys with the CS
props
>
>can load the engine at lower rpm, us folks with the cheap props have to
>wind up our engines (2400-2600 rpm) to get high MP unless we are flying
>at sea level.
>
>That's why a lot of us fly our new planes with new engines without the
>pants and fairings so breaking in the cylinders won't result in higher
>than desired airspeed.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Allen, would you please tell us where is the correct connection on the Lyc
0-320 E2D to pre-oil the engine? In other words "how do you do it"?
Thanks,
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "BPA" <BPA@bpaengines.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
>
> Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop. Other
> shops have different criteria, but this works pretty darn well.
>
> After the engine is pre-oiled and gage pressure of minimum requirements
> (45 PSI) is met, the engine is started and operated at 1000-1200 rpm and
> 13-16 in MP for 5 minutes or until 100 degrees Oil temp.
>
> Then, 1500 rpm and 15 inches for 5 minutes, quick mag check,
>
> 1700/16-17 until 140 oil temp is achieved,
>
> then 2000 rpm and 19-20 inches and wait for vernathern to close (usually
> 189 F), perform a mag check
>
> then 65-75% which is usually 24/24 maintain 200 F oil temps, and 390-400
> F HOTTEST CHT. Lean to .53-.54 BSFC or 1400 F EGT for 30-45 minutes, oil
> pressure is set at this time. This is when you start seeing your MP
> rise, thus rings are STARTING to seat. The CHT's are cooled down and a
> full power run is done for 3-5 minutes leaned to best power. This
> ensures the engine makes rated power. The engine is slowly cooled down
> and RPM reduced to 2000 and another mag check is done. The power is then
> reduced to 1000-1200 rpm and 13-15 MP, then slowed to 650-750 long
> enough to show hot oil pressure at idle. From this point the engine is
> properly shut down and a hot differential compression check is
> accomplished. If all systems are go, the engine is preserved and ready
> for post dyno inspection. At this time, the computer is downloading the
> test data that is delivered with the engine. We get a copy, and you get
> a copy.
>
> This in no way means the rings are seated. On nitrided cylinders, it
> usually requires approximately 10 hours for oil consumption to
> stabilize. When oil consumption stabilizes, the rings are seated the
> best they are going to.
>
> I don't think there are too many folks who want to pay the additional
> costs of 8-10 more hours of dyno time to get the rings seated.
>
> The best thing for you to do is once the engine is installed,(don't
> forget to add oil)! Start and run the engine on the ground to let the
> CHT's get up a LITTLE bit. The cylinders are still susceptible to
> glazing if the temps get to high. Shut the engine down, check for
> installation leaks, cowl it up and go fly for a minimum 1 hour at 24-25
> Square. The whole key is consistent RPM/MP.
>
>
> Allen Barrett
> BPE, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>>Having been reading up on this with lyco articles and so forth, it is
>>the manifold pressures not the rpm that seats the rings. It was not
>>semantics you were discussing, rather RPM vs MP. With FP your stuck
> with
>>high rpm to get the MP. What you do not want is a c/s prop at 2700rpm
>>pulling 18".
>>
>>Lyco says run 75% power.
>>
> Yeah, Mike, but they don't want even a hint of having to fix something
> on warranty. 75% is a great warranty.
>
>> Engine shops say Max MP, rpm as high as you can stand it.
>>
> And I agree. Although engine shops will LOVE to fix your engine ..... I
>
> doubt they see any problems relating to 100% power.
> My experience with 100% power (or more) has been really good ..... never
>
> had to pull a cylinder to rehone..
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>rvpilot@access4less.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <rvpilot@access4less.net>
>>>
>>>Linn is correct here. It's not necessarily high RPM that seats the
>>>
>>>
>>rings, it"s
>>
>>
>>>high manifold pressure. The higher MP forces the rings tighter against
>>>
>>>
>>the cylinder walls
>>
>>
>>>and wears them in quicker. The object is to have the rings form their
>>>
>>>
>>best seal before a
>>
>>
>>>layer of varnish forms on the Cyl. walls, at which point, further ring
>>>
>>>
>>seating effectively ceases.
>>
>>
>>>For this reason, you should not go to high altitudes until break in is
>>>
>>>
>>complete. With
>>
>>
>>>steel or Cerminil Cyls., break in is usually complete within 1 Hr. as
>>>
>>>
>>evidenced by a
>>
>>
>>>stabilized oil consumption.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Granted. But those of us with fixed-pitch props have to resort to
> higher
>>
>>rpm in order to pull more manifold pressure.
>>
>>I think we are getting hung up on semantics. The point I was making is
>>the engine should not be flown gingerly, it needs to develop a lot of
>>power (rpm or MP, whatever your particular engine/prop requires) in
>>order to rapidly and reliably seat the rings. You guys with the CS
> props
>>
>>can load the engine at lower rpm, us folks with the cheap props have to
>
>>wind up our engines (2400-2600 rpm) to get high MP unless we are flying
>
>>at sea level.
>>
>>That's why a lot of us fly our new planes with new engines without the
>>pants and fairings so breaking in the cylinders won't result in higher
>>than desired airspeed.
>>
>>Sam Buchanan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
I think I'm following you, here, but is that warming effect from friction, a-la
spaceship re-entry fireball stuff, or compression of the air, as in ideal gas
laws (Boyle's?). My physics is a bit rusty.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
The air that is touching the probe will be at zero velocity with
respect to the probe, so it will be warmer than the ambient
temperature. <snip>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Agree that will fix the probe accuracy problem, but you're still cooling yourself
with warm air from the NACA duct :-(
I'd be curious to see what the CO measurements and airflow velocities were from
the aft of canopy location...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: chaztuna@adelphia.net
Subject: RE: RV-List: OAT Probe location
--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Walt,
You might want to insulate the sensor. Otherwise solar heating of the wing
skins will heat the sensor while the plane sits out on the ramp in summer. Of
course, this would only be an issue until the wings cooled down in flight.
Charlie Kuss
---- rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net>
>
> Well, after getting many more responses about OAT probe location than I
> ever dreamed, I've finally decided to mount it under the right wing. I'm
> planning to attach it to the inside of the 2nd inspection panel, with just the
> eighth inch diameter probe sticking out into the airstream. The threaded
> base of the probe will be screwed into a small piece of aluminum which I'll
> thread for the 1/4" base.
>
> Thanks for the many good ideas.....
>
> Walt Shipley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DonVS <dsvs@comcast.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: OAT Probe location
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
>
> Also it can not be in direct sunlight. Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Why not behind the canopy on the top of the plane?
>
> The slipstream spirals over the plane. You'd inevitably have some sort of
> mix of heated air and exhaust back there.
>
> Why take a shortcut when the alternative is so simple? Just put your probe
> out on the bottom of the wing...it's the lesser of all evils.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rivet gun, c-arm, RV-6 wing tips and wheel pants and scoop on |
E-bay.
--> RV-List message posted by: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Hi gang, I have just moved and decided to put some of this stuff to better
use (sell it on e-bay). Thanks.
Rivet Gun 3x Van's
Vans<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4565263704&ssPageNameSTRK:MESE:IT>
C-frame C-arm Riveting and dimpling tool Van's
Vans<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4565262082&ssPageNameSTRK:MESE:IT>
Vans RV6 Wheel Fairing Fiberglass Van's
RV-6<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4565259744&ssPageNameSTRK:MESE:IT>
Vans RV6 Wing Tip Fiberglass Van's
RV-6<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4565257318&ssPageNameSTRK:MESE:IT>
Vans RV6 Fiberglass Intake Scoop Van's
RV-6<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item4565253814&ssPageNameSTRK:MESE:IT>
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/vp4skydoc/index.html
Message 9
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| Subject: | fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
Thanks Mike, for the kind words. Our dynamometer is a water break system
meaning we can simulate a prop load. The engine sits on a test bed and
is fully enclosed, except for where our test lines(fuel metering, oil
pressure, etc) are fed to the engine, and the exhaust is exited.
Therefore we have a cooling tower to force air into and over the engine
and cylinders to keep the engine in operating temps while we test the
engine. We also have the capability of testing practically every
perimeter of the engine, so technically, yes, there are a lot of special
test equipment used during testing.
When ground running an engine, there is not a way I know of to keep the
cylinder head temps under control because of the lack of airflow to the
engine. The CHT's would hit orbit before the oil temp could get to 189.
Even aircraft taxiing tests can be detrimental to the engine if done for
extended periods. I would not advise copying the test in the airframe.
If you guys are interested, we would be more than happy to run your
engines on the dyno. We run other engine shops engines here as well as a
few owner assembled engines. We do have to cover labor and fuel costs,
but it's well worth the costs involved. It's under a grand for an hours
run. Good Insurance IMO. I know, maybe you guys are thinking 'here
comes the sales pitch'. That's not it at all. But The first breath of a
babies life is it's most important, and at the cost of engines these
days, it really IS important to know there are no issues with the engine
when it's installed in your plane, isn't it? You even get to sit side by
side with the test operator and see your engine running. If you've never
witnessed a dyno run, you will be intrigued, for sure.
On a side note, if anyone is interested in an owner assist engine build
seminar in Sept. (24) send me your address off line, and I'll get you a
registration form mailed. We will be building an O-320 with Matt Brandes
of K.C. for his RV-9 project. It will be a 1 day build that will explain
the do's and don'ts of building your own engine and some of the pitfalls
as well. The seminar will be at Lee's Summit MO. EAA chapter 91 hanger.
All are welcome but space is limited so if you're interested, I need to
get your form to you pretty fast. Email me at bpa@bpaengines.com and
I'll snail mail you a form.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart,
Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RE: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Allen,
A most excellent post from a reputable shop.
My question is this.
Can we on our airplanes on the ground on out first start up do the exact
same thing you are reliably? Is there anything special about the test
set up you have? Big fans running for cooling? These are nice simple
steps below and I have a first run coming this month on my plane and
plan to print this and have it in the cockpit with me during the first
runs.
I wondered if I could keep cht's down enough on the ground to get the
oil temp to 189 while getting these run times.
Thanks
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Subject: RE: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop. Other
shops have different criteria, but this works pretty darn well.
After the engine is pre-oiled and gage pressure of minimum requirements
(45 PSI) is met, the engine is started and operated at 1000-1200 rpm and
13-16 in MP for 5 minutes or until 100 degrees Oil temp.
Then, 1500 rpm and 15 inches for 5 minutes, quick mag check,
1700/16-17 until 140 oil temp is achieved,
then 2000 rpm and 19-20 inches and wait for vernathern to close (usually
189 F), perform a mag check
then 65-75% which is usually 24/24 maintain 200 F oil temps, and 390-400
F HOTTEST CHT. Lean to .53-.54 BSFC or 1400 F EGT for 30-45 minutes, oil
pressure is set at this time. This is when you start seeing your MP
rise, thus rings are STARTING to seat. The CHT's are cooled down and a
full power run is done for 3-5 minutes leaned to best power. This
ensures the engine makes rated power. The engine is slowly cooled down
and RPM reduced to 2000 and another mag check is done. The power is then
reduced to 1000-1200 rpm and 13-15 MP, then slowed to 650-750 long
enough to show hot oil pressure at idle. From this point the engine is
properly shut down and a hot differential compression check is
accomplished. If all systems are go, the engine is preserved and ready
for post dyno inspection. At this time, the computer is downloading the
test data that is delivered with the engine. We get a copy, and you get
a copy.
This in no way means the rings are seated. On nitrided cylinders, it
usually requires approximately 10 hours for oil consumption to
stabilize. When oil consumption stabilizes, the rings are seated the
best they are going to.
I don't think there are too many folks who want to pay the additional
costs of 8-10 more hours of dyno time to get the rings seated.
The best thing for you to do is once the engine is installed,(don't
forget to add oil)! Start and run the engine on the ground to let the
CHT's get up a LITTLE bit. The cylinders are still susceptible to
glazing if the temps get to high. Shut the engine down, check for
installation leaks, cowl it up and go fly for a minimum 1 hour at 24-25
Square. The whole key is consistent RPM/MP.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Having been reading up on this with lyco articles and so forth, it is
>the manifold pressures not the rpm that seats the rings. It was not
>semantics you were discussing, rather RPM vs MP. With FP your stuck
with
>high rpm to get the MP. What you do not want is a c/s prop at 2700rpm
>pulling 18".
>
>Lyco says run 75% power.
>
Yeah, Mike, but they don't want even a hint of having to fix something
on warranty. 75% is a great warranty.
> Engine shops say Max MP, rpm as high as you can stand it.
>
And I agree. Although engine shops will LOVE to fix your engine ..... I
doubt they see any problems relating to 100% power.
My experience with 100% power (or more) has been really good ..... never
had to pull a cylinder to rehone..
Linn
do not archive
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>rvpilot@access4less.net wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <rvpilot@access4less.net>
>>
>>Linn is correct here. It's not necessarily high RPM that seats the
>>
>>
>rings, it"s
>
>
>>high manifold pressure. The higher MP forces the rings tighter against
>>
>>
>the cylinder walls
>
>
>>and wears them in quicker. The object is to have the rings form their
>>
>>
>best seal before a
>
>
>>layer of varnish forms on the Cyl. walls, at which point, further ring
>>
>>
>seating effectively ceases.
>
>
>>For this reason, you should not go to high altitudes until break in is
>>
>>
>complete. With
>
>
>>steel or Cerminil Cyls., break in is usually complete within 1 Hr. as
>>
>>
>evidenced by a
>
>
>>stabilized oil consumption.
>>
>>
>
>
>Granted. But those of us with fixed-pitch props have to resort to
higher
>
>rpm in order to pull more manifold pressure.
>
>I think we are getting hung up on semantics. The point I was making is
>the engine should not be flown gingerly, it needs to develop a lot of
>power (rpm or MP, whatever your particular engine/prop requires) in
>order to rapidly and reliably seat the rings. You guys with the CS
props
>
>can load the engine at lower rpm, us folks with the cheap props have to
>wind up our engines (2400-2600 rpm) to get high MP unless we are flying
>at sea level.
>
>That's why a lot of us fly our new planes with new engines without the
>pants and fairings so breaking in the cylinders won't result in higher
>than desired airspeed.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | fresh engines and new airplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
List,
We establish oil pressure by pulling the top plugs (or bottom) from the
cylinders and motor the engine until oil pressure is established on the
gage. We use a dedicated starter NOT turning the engine, but the dyno.
But, you need to make certain that at assembly the engine parts are
properly lubed, because if they aren't, everyone knows what happens!!!
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Jacko
Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Allen, would you please tell us where is the correct connection on the
Lyc
0-320 E2D to pre-oil the engine? In other words "how do you do it"?
Thanks,
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "BPA" <BPA@bpaengines.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
>
> Okay you guys, here is how we break an engine in at our shop. Other
> shops have different criteria, but this works pretty darn well.
>
> After the engine is pre-oiled and gage pressure of minimum
requirements
> (45 PSI) is met, the engine is started and operated at 1000-1200 rpm
and
> 13-16 in MP for 5 minutes or until 100 degrees Oil temp.
>
> Then, 1500 rpm and 15 inches for 5 minutes, quick mag check,
>
> 1700/16-17 until 140 oil temp is achieved,
>
> then 2000 rpm and 19-20 inches and wait for vernathern to close
(usually
> 189 F), perform a mag check
>
> then 65-75% which is usually 24/24 maintain 200 F oil temps, and
390-400
> F HOTTEST CHT. Lean to .53-.54 BSFC or 1400 F EGT for 30-45 minutes,
oil
> pressure is set at this time. This is when you start seeing your MP
> rise, thus rings are STARTING to seat. The CHT's are cooled down and a
> full power run is done for 3-5 minutes leaned to best power. This
> ensures the engine makes rated power. The engine is slowly cooled down
> and RPM reduced to 2000 and another mag check is done. The power is
then
> reduced to 1000-1200 rpm and 13-15 MP, then slowed to 650-750 long
> enough to show hot oil pressure at idle. From this point the engine is
> properly shut down and a hot differential compression check is
> accomplished. If all systems are go, the engine is preserved and ready
> for post dyno inspection. At this time, the computer is downloading
the
> test data that is delivered with the engine. We get a copy, and you
get
> a copy.
>
> This in no way means the rings are seated. On nitrided cylinders, it
> usually requires approximately 10 hours for oil consumption to
> stabilize. When oil consumption stabilizes, the rings are seated the
> best they are going to.
>
> I don't think there are too many folks who want to pay the additional
> costs of 8-10 more hours of dyno time to get the rings seated.
>
> The best thing for you to do is once the engine is installed,(don't
> forget to add oil)! Start and run the engine on the ground to let the
> CHT's get up a LITTLE bit. The cylinders are still susceptible to
> glazing if the temps get to high. Shut the engine down, check for
> installation leaks, cowl it up and go fly for a minimum 1 hour at
24-25
> Square. The whole key is consistent RPM/MP.
>
>
> Allen Barrett
> BPE, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>>Having been reading up on this with lyco articles and so forth, it is
>>the manifold pressures not the rpm that seats the rings. It was not
>>semantics you were discussing, rather RPM vs MP. With FP your stuck
> with
>>high rpm to get the MP. What you do not want is a c/s prop at 2700rpm
>>pulling 18".
>>
>>Lyco says run 75% power.
>>
> Yeah, Mike, but they don't want even a hint of having to fix something
> on warranty. 75% is a great warranty.
>
>> Engine shops say Max MP, rpm as high as you can stand it.
>>
> And I agree. Although engine shops will LOVE to fix your engine .....
I
>
> doubt they see any problems relating to 100% power.
> My experience with 100% power (or more) has been really good .....
never
>
> had to pull a cylinder to rehone..
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: fresh engines and new airplanes
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>>
>>rvpilot@access4less.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <rvpilot@access4less.net>
>>>
>>>Linn is correct here. It's not necessarily high RPM that seats the
>>>
>>>
>>rings, it"s
>>
>>
>>>high manifold pressure. The higher MP forces the rings tighter
against
>>>
>>>
>>the cylinder walls
>>
>>
>>>and wears them in quicker. The object is to have the rings form their
>>>
>>>
>>best seal before a
>>
>>
>>>layer of varnish forms on the Cyl. walls, at which point, further
ring
>>>
>>>
>>seating effectively ceases.
>>
>>
>>>For this reason, you should not go to high altitudes until break in
is
>>>
>>>
>>complete. With
>>
>>
>>>steel or Cerminil Cyls., break in is usually complete within 1 Hr. as
>>>
>>>
>>evidenced by a
>>
>>
>>>stabilized oil consumption.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Granted. But those of us with fixed-pitch props have to resort to
> higher
>>
>>rpm in order to pull more manifold pressure.
>>
>>I think we are getting hung up on semantics. The point I was making is
>>the engine should not be flown gingerly, it needs to develop a lot of
>>power (rpm or MP, whatever your particular engine/prop requires) in
>>order to rapidly and reliably seat the rings. You guys with the CS
> props
>>
>>can load the engine at lower rpm, us folks with the cheap props have
to
>
>>wind up our engines (2400-2600 rpm) to get high MP unless we are
flying
>
>>at sea level.
>>
>>That's why a lot of us fly our new planes with new engines without the
>>pants and fairings so breaking in the cylinders won't result in higher
>>than desired airspeed.
>>
>>Sam Buchanan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Was this RV a electronic ignition only? Why else would there be a forced
landing with a total electrical failure?
I suppose the cockpit could have filled with smoke.
Congratulations to the pilot for a no damage landing.
do not archive
********************************************************************************
** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 4 **
********************************************************************************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 609DM Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
Date: 07/27/2005 Time: 2000
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: None
LOCATION
City: PENDLETON State: OR Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT WHILE ENROUTE, EXPERIENCED TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE AND MADE A FORCED
LANDING IN A FIELD, PENDLETON, OR
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: NOT REPORED
OTHER DATA
Departed: WALLA WALLA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: KLAMATH FALLS Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 07/28/2005
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Both the OAT probe and the space vehicle reentry temp rises can be
looked at as heating due to compression. The equations are different
for supersonic speeds though, as the shock wave has a major effect.
Kevin
On 28 Jul 2005, at 13:00, sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> I think I'm following you, here, but is that warming effect from
> friction, a-la spaceship re-entry fireball stuff, or compression of
> the air, as in ideal gas laws (Boyle's?). My physics is a bit rusty.
>
> -Stormy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> The air that is touching the probe will be at zero velocity with
> respect to the probe, so it will be warmer than the ambient
> temperature. <snip>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
So, Mr. Horton, what exactly do you do for a living? You sound like a test
pilot extrordinair?
At 04:32 PM 7/28/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>Both the OAT probe and the space vehicle reentry temp rises can be
>looked at as heating due to compression. The equations are different
>for supersonic speeds though, as the shock wave has a major effect.
>
>Kevin
>
>On 28 Jul 2005, at 13:00, sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
> >
> > I think I'm following you, here, but is that warming effect from
> > friction, a-la spaceship re-entry fireball stuff, or compression of
> > the air, as in ideal gas laws (Boyle's?). My physics is a bit rusty.
> >
> > -Stormy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
> >
> > The air that is touching the probe will be at zero velocity with
> > respect to the probe, so it will be warmer than the ambient
> > temperature. <snip>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 14
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Jerry,
It jsut so happens I know about this one. It is a Chevy V-6 4.3 liter
engine with it's stock electronic ignition. He lost all electrical power
during cruise, thereby losing engine power. He put it into a wheat field
with NO damage. Last I talked to him he was planning on pulling the plane
over to the farmer's brn, figuring out what broke, fix it and flying it out
of the field. The sad part is he had bought it just one hour before up in
Walla Walla.
Mike Robertson
>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: I wonder ??
>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:01:01 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>Was this RV a electronic ignition only? Why else would there be a forced
>landing with a total electrical failure?
>I suppose the cockpit could have filled with smoke.
>Congratulations to the pilot for a no damage landing.
>
>do not archive
>
>********************************************************************************
>** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 4
> **
>********************************************************************************
>
>IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 609DM Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
> Date: 07/27/2005 Time: 2000
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: None
>
>LOCATION
> City: PENDLETON State: OR Country: US
>
>DESCRIPTION
> ACFT WHILE ENROUTE, EXPERIENCED TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE AND MADE A
>FORCED
> LANDING IN A FIELD, PENDLETON, OR
>
>INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>Unk:
>
>WEATHER: NOT REPORED
>
>OTHER DATA
>
> Departed: WALLA WALLA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> Destination: KLAMATH FALLS Flt Plan: Wx
>Briefing:
> Last Radio Cont:
> Last Clearance:
>
> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 07/28/2005
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Thanks Mike that explains it.
Jerry
do not archive
Mike Robertson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>
>Jerry,
>
>It jsut so happens I know about this one. It is a Chevy V-6 4.3 liter
>engine with it's stock electronic ignition. He lost all electrical power
>during cruise, thereby losing engine power. He put it into a wheat field
>with NO damage. Last I talked to him he was planning on pulling the plane
>over to the farmer's brn, figuring out what broke, fix it and flying it out
>of the field. The sad part is he had bought it just one hour before up in
>Walla Walla.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>
>
>>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: I wonder ??
>>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:01:01 -0700
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>
>>Was this RV a electronic ignition only? Why else would there be a forced
>>landing with a total electrical failure?
>>I suppose the cockpit could have filled with smoke.
>>Congratulations to the pilot for a no damage landing.
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>********************************************************************************
>>** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 4
>> **
>>********************************************************************************
>>
>>IDENTIFICATION
>> Regis#: 609DM Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
>> Date: 07/27/2005 Time: 2000
>>
>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
>> Damage: None
>>
>>LOCATION
>> City: PENDLETON State: OR Country: US
>>
>>DESCRIPTION
>> ACFT WHILE ENROUTE, EXPERIENCED TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE AND MADE A
>>FORCED
>> LANDING IN A FIELD, PENDLETON, OR
>>
>>INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
>> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>>
>>WEATHER: NOT REPORED
>>
>>OTHER DATA
>>
>> Departed: WALLA WALLA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
>> Destination: KLAMATH FALLS Flt Plan: Wx
>>Briefing:
>> Last Radio Cont:
>> Last Clearance:
>>
>> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 07/28/2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 28 Jul 2005, at 17:05, Scott Bilinski wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-
> wireless.com>
>
> So, Mr. Horton, what exactly do you do for a living? You sound like
> a test
> pilot extrordinair?
>
>
Scott,
I don't claim to be a test pilot extrordinair, but I am a test
pilot. I had the good fortune to go to Test Pilot School in France
for a year, way back in 87-88, and have worked full time as a test
pilot since then.
For more info, see:
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/staticpages/index.php?page=Kevin_Horton
Kevin Horton
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 07/28 8:09, Kevin Horton wrote:
> I don't claim to be a test pilot extrordinair, but I am a test
> pilot. I had the good fortune to go to Test Pilot School in France
> for a year, way back in 87-88, and have worked full time as a test
> pilot since then.
>
> For more info, see:
>
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/staticpages/index.php?page=Kevin_Horton
Damn Kevin, you are da Man! That's a life I can only dream of.
And I plan on dreaming even more after reading your story.
But using LaTex and Perl for document templates and data gathering!
You are a GOD! Keep the data coming, I'm enjoying this way too
much.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | RV Forum Oswego NY Sept 10-12, 2005 |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
RV listers.....11th Annual RV Forum
KFZY Oswego NY
Sept 10 through 12th 2005.
GO to _WWW.eaachapter486.com_ (http://www.eaachapter486.com)
for details.
Regards
David McManmon
RV6 builder, pilot
Message 19
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| Subject: | aviation activities/museums in the NYC area? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Hi guys,
My wife & I will be in the NYC area from Aug 4 through 13. We are
staying somewhere in mid Manhattan (friends in high places :-) ) with at
least one or two trips over to Hoboken while we are there.
Can anyone in the area suggest any aviation related activities, sites,
museums, etc. that are within reach of mass transit while we are there?
It looks like I've been given a ration of at least one or two aviation
days while I'm there, but they will probably be around Wednesday-Friday.
Any suggestions for good jazz, blues or rock&roll clubs would also be
welcome. I want to be prepared to fend off any karaoke proposals.
Feel free to reply off list.
Thanks,
Charlie
(Suthun boy viztin' the City)
ceengland@bellsouth.net
do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Kevin Horton was OAT |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Walter,
He is even a nice guy in person.
Hey Kevin, when are you coming back to SoCal for a Rocket Ride. Something
has got to get you in garage to finish that "8". You could ship that
project to Jack, AKA Kabong, and let him finish it for you. :-)
Tom "GummiBear" Gummo
Wild Weasel #1573
Apple Valley, CA
N561FS
Harmon Rocket-II (test pilot for this plane ONLY).
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter@tondu.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT Probe location
> --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>
> On 07/28 8:09, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> > I don't claim to be a test pilot extrordinair, but I am a test
> > pilot. I had the good fortune to go to Test Pilot School in France
> > for a year, way back in 87-88, and have worked full time as a test
> > pilot since then.
> >
> > For more info, see:
> >
> > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/staticpages/index.php?page=Kevin_Horton
>
> Damn Kevin, you are da Man! That's a life I can only dream of.
> And I plan on dreaming even more after reading your story.
>
> But using LaTex and Perl for document templates and data gathering!
> You are a GOD! Keep the data coming, I'm enjoying this way too
> much.
>
> --
> Walter Tondu
> http://www.rv7-a.com
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | RV-6 ACCIDENT NEAR MONTREAL,QUEBEC |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Good evening Gentlemen
Early this morning RV-6 C-GAPF
crashed in the Richelieu river while doing circuits at the St-Jean Airport
(CYJN). The aircraft had been purchased 2 weeks ago from a friend of mine
(not the builder) and the new owner was receiving training due to his lack
of confidence in his abilities with his new aircraft.
In this accident, I loss a good
friend of mine, the passenger, Robert Riendeau, a true gentleman and RV
builder. Robert, was in the final preparation toward a flight next year in
his RV-4. In the mean time, he was flying a KR-1, which he bought a few
years ago and totally refurbished.
The RV-6 (Mazda Powered) had been
very well maintained and had been worked on extensively last winter. From
initial reports, the aircraft appeared to have suffered an engine failure
and crashed almost strait in the river (most likely stalled).
We should know a little more in the next few days.
Robert, blue skies my friend..
Bruno
Message 22
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
I was at OshKosh yesterday talking about the auto conversions and I brought
up the fact that it seems like a disproportionate amount of
incidents/accidents due to engine failure are coming from the auto
conversions these days. The guy I was speaking with said he was an a&p and
has seen plenty of lycoming problems ie crank.... I dont know but they sure
seem more reliable in rvs than auto engines. Just my opinion. I love the
idea of putting a car engine in an airplane. Im just chicken.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
220 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: I wonder ??
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>
> Jerry,
>
> It jsut so happens I know about this one. It is a Chevy V-6 4.3 liter
> engine with it's stock electronic ignition. He lost all electrical power
> during cruise, thereby losing engine power. He put it into a wheat field
> with NO damage. Last I talked to him he was planning on pulling the plane
> over to the farmer's brn, figuring out what broke, fix it and flying it
> out
> of the field. The sad part is he had bought it just one hour before up in
> Walla Walla.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
>>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: I wonder ??
>>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:01:01 -0700
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>
>>Was this RV a electronic ignition only? Why else would there be a forced
>>landing with a total electrical failure?
>>I suppose the cockpit could have filled with smoke.
>>Congratulations to the pilot for a no damage landing.
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>********************************************************************************
>>** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 4
>> **
>>********************************************************************************
>>
>>IDENTIFICATION
>> Regis#: 609DM Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
>> Date: 07/27/2005 Time: 2000
>>
>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
>> N
>> Damage: None
>>
>>LOCATION
>> City: PENDLETON State: OR Country: US
>>
>>DESCRIPTION
>> ACFT WHILE ENROUTE, EXPERIENCED TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE AND MADE A
>>FORCED
>> LANDING IN A FIELD, PENDLETON, OR
>>
>>INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
>> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>Unk:
>>
>>WEATHER: NOT REPORED
>>
>>OTHER DATA
>>
>> Departed: WALLA WALLA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
>> Destination: KLAMATH FALLS Flt Plan: Wx
>>Briefing:
>> Last Radio Cont:
>> Last Clearance:
>>
>> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 07/28/2005
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
And now the post Bruno in Canada that just lost a friend in a RV-6 Mazda
powered, it apparently
experienced an engine failure. I agree that Lycomings seem to quit
frequently also, but there are
thousands and thousand flying while there are reality few auto powered
aircraft.
Condolences to the family and friends.
Jerry
do not archive
Jeff Dowling wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>
>I was at OshKosh yesterday talking about the auto conversions and I brought
>up the fact that it seems like a disproportionate amount of
>incidents/accidents due to engine failure are coming from the auto
>conversions these days. The guy I was speaking with said he was an a&p and
>has seen plenty of lycoming problems ie crank.... I dont know but they sure
>seem more reliable in rvs than auto engines. Just my opinion. I love the
>idea of putting a car engine in an airplane. Im just chicken.
>
>Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>RV-6A, N915JD
>220 hours
>Chicago/Louisville
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: I wonder ??
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Jerry,
>>
>>It jsut so happens I know about this one. It is a Chevy V-6 4.3 liter
>>engine with it's stock electronic ignition. He lost all electrical power
>>during cruise, thereby losing engine power. He put it into a wheat field
>>with NO damage. Last I talked to him he was planning on pulling the plane
>>over to the farmer's brn, figuring out what broke, fix it and flying it
>>out
>>of the field. The sad part is he had bought it just one hour before up in
>>Walla Walla.
>>
>>Mike Robertson
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RV-List: I wonder ??
>>>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:01:01 -0700
>>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>Was this RV a electronic ignition only? Why else would there be a forced
>>>landing with a total electrical failure?
>>>I suppose the cockpit could have filled with smoke.
>>>Congratulations to the pilot for a no damage landing.
>>>
>>>do not archive
>>>
>>>********************************************************************************
>>>** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 4
>>> **
>>>********************************************************************************
>>>
>>>IDENTIFICATION
>>> Regis#: 609DM Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
>>> Date: 07/27/2005 Time: 2000
>>>
>>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
>>>N
>>> Damage: None
>>>
>>>LOCATION
>>> City: PENDLETON State: OR Country: US
>>>
>>>DESCRIPTION
>>> ACFT WHILE ENROUTE, EXPERIENCED TOTAL ELECTRICAL FAILURE AND MADE A
>>>FORCED
>>> LANDING IN A FIELD, PENDLETON, OR
>>>
>>>INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
>>> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>>Unk:
>>> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>>Unk:
>>> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
>>>Unk:
>>>
>>>WEATHER: NOT REPORED
>>>
>>>OTHER DATA
>>>
>>> Departed: WALLA WALLA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
>>> Destination: KLAMATH FALLS Flt Plan: Wx
>>>Briefing:
>>> Last Radio Cont:
>>> Last Clearance:
>>>
>>> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 07/28/2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
Tim
RV-6
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>
>
> I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
>what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
>
>Tim
>RV-6
>
>
>
>
No details yet other than he lives in Eugene, OR I believe it was Ross
Mickey who has in the past
posted to this list. I have seen his airplane a few times. According to
the NTSB prelim report there was
minor damage and no injuries thankfully.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
Try this url:
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events
04/media/21_9PT.txt
Remember to include the whole url not just the underlined part.
Henry H.
Tim Bryan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>
>
> I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
>what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
>
>Tim
>RV-6
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
********************************************************************************
** Report created 7/28/2005 Record 21 **
********************************************************************************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 9PT Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
Date: 07/24/2005 Time: 0036
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: OSHKOSH State: WI Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT ON LANDING, LANDED SHORT AND FLIPPED OVER, OSHKOSH, WI
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: 0053Z 18010KT 10SM CLR 23/20 A2997
OTHER DATA
Departed: Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: OSHKOSH, WI Flt Plan: UNK Wx Briefing: Y
Last Radio Cont: ON FINAL
Last Clearance: CLRD TO LAND
FAA FSDO: MILWAUKEE, WI (GL13) Entry date: 07/25/2005
Henry Hochberg wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
>
>Try this url:
>
>http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events
>04/media/21_9PT.txt
>
>Remember to include the whole url not just the underlined part.
>
>Henry H.
>
>
>Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>>
>>
>>I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
>>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
>>what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
>>
>>Tim
>>RV-6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
URL that are long like that make me really appreciate Dan's URL shortner
try it this way.
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=6a4795b9
And for anyone that is not familier with a URL shortner here is Dan's
http://checkoway.com/url/
Jerry
Do not archive
Henry Hochberg wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
>
>Try this url:
>
>http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events
>04/media/21_9PT.txt
>
>Remember to include the whole url not just the underlined part.
>
>Henry H.
>
>
>Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>>
>>
>>I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
>>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
>>what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
>>
>>Tim
>>RV-6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: OAT Probe location |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
I actually looked into this once. Heating from air friction doesn't
become significant until you're well over 200mph, as I recall. It might
be detectable in a very energetic RV-8. Simplest is to just put the
probe behind some obstruction so it doesn't get the direct blast. My
RV-6A has a Lift Reserve Indicator probe which is a pretty stout piece
of aluminum sticking down from the underside of the wing. I mounted the
OAT probe just aft of that. At least it won't contribute much drag
there (I assume).
sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> I think I'm following you, here, but is that warming effect from friction, a-la
spaceship re-entry fireball stuff, or compression of the air, as in ideal gas
laws (Boyle's?). My physics is a bit rusty.
>
>-Stormy
>
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, cowl.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
Jerry:
That is just too cool. I should explore all of Dan's site to see what
other goodies he has for us computer challenged guys!
Henry
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>URL that are long like that make me really appreciate Dan's URL shortner
>try it this way.
>http://checkoway.com/url/?s=6a4795b9
>
>
>And for anyone that is not familier with a URL shortner here is Dan's
>
>http://checkoway.com/url/
>
>Jerry
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>Henry Hochberg wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc@comcast.net>
>>
>>Try this url:
>>
>>http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events
>>04/media/21_9PT.txt
>>
>>Remember to include the whole url not just the underlined part.
>>
>>Henry H.
>>
>>
>>Tim Bryan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who was at Oshkosh and told me a
>>>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. Anybody have details of
>>>what caused this? Apparently landed short and then cartwheeled.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>RV-6
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