---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/30/05: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:13 AM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? Eyewitness account (Tim Bryan) 2. 09:21 AM - Re: And another crash at Oshkosh? (jsflyrv@comcast.net) 3. 11:02 AM - Firewall forward for sale (Edward Cole) 4. 02:17 PM - Garmin 396 In-Flight Report (sturdy@att.net) 5. 03:32 PM - Re: Garmin 396 In-Flight Report (Larry Pardue) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:39 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: Re: RV-List: And another crash at Oshkosh? Eyewitness account --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Nels, We are glad you were there also. Thanks for your part in helping out. It is unfortunate situation, but I can certainly understand how a pilot might let circumstances dictate the flying. I was there myself once with a gear up landing. Take Care Tim DNA -------Original Message------- From: Nels Hanson Subject: Re: RV-List: And another crash at Oshkosh? Eyewitness account --> RV-List message posted by: Nels Hanson I was sitting in the grass at the approach end of "9" at OSH with my engine off waiting for my chance to get out of there last Sat. evening in my RV-6. I listened and watched planes coming in on 9 for about 15 minutes. The tower was telling this particular RV to "land on the numbers". He mentioned this 2-3 times. It was busy and the traffic was heavy. I thought this RV was coming in a little low and slow so I watched the whole thing unfold. I feel(personal opinion only)that this gentlemen started to let the tower "fly" his airplane. The plane was approx.15-20 ft. high above the runway when the left wing dropped quickly and struck the runway. The plane came down on it's gear and left wing. The nosewheel quickly collapsed and the plane started skidding down Runway 9 at an angle. It slid off the runway and plowed sod for about 30-40 ft. before the combination of the nosewheel and propeller dug in the sod. The plane flipped over on it's back very slowly. It did not "cartwheel".The pilot was trapped in the plane,that was easy to tell the way it lay. I radioed the tower to send the EMTs and crash squad. I unbuckled and climbed out of my plane. I was on the south side of the runway and the crashed RV was on the north side. I probably should not have done what I did next but I did it anyway. I looked at the incoming planes and saw them climbing. Assuming the tower had told them to go around I sprinted across the runway toward the RV. I did not want to see this plane go up in flames with someone(s)inside. About the time I got to the plane a couple of other guys got there too. Don't know where they came from. We dove under the wing to see how many people were inside. The pilot(only passenger)was conscious and alert. About 3-4 of us lifted the tail and wing while two other guys pulled the pilot out of the plane and moved him 30-40ft. away. The pilot sat up and had a couple of cuts and bruises but was very aware. I was so happy to see that he wasn't seriously injured. About that time the "officals" got there and hurried us out of there. I was glad to get back to my plane. Of course,now the runway was closed and I had to taxi back to 18 to take off. Again,just my opinion,but here's the lesson: You are the pilot of your plane. You need to fly it and not let the busyness of OSH get into your head. I feel the intensity of the close arrivals and intensity of the controller's voice had a very large part to play in this accident. However,we MUST remember to keep flying the plane. I've been waiting to see if this accident made the list. It has taken almost a week. When I flew home I thought of it often. We are the only ones that should be flying our planes,not the tower. This could have been a monumental tragedy if fire had broken out. I had already make my mind up as I ran across the runway to take some burns if it came to that. The other guys who showed up never hesitated for an instance before diving down to the broken cockpit to get that guy out of there ASAP. I have no idea who they were,but I want to thank them for being there. So,there it is,a very closeup eyewitness account from someone who flies an RV and saw the whole thing unfold. I'm just glad it turned out the way it did. --- Randy Lervold wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > > >> I just heard from a friend and -9A builder who > was at Oshkosh and told me > >> a > >>RV-6 (A) crashed on landing on Saturday evening. > Anybody have details of > >>what caused this? Apparently landed short and > then cartwheeled. > >> > >>Tim > >>RV-6 > >> > >> > > No details yet other than he lives in Eugene, OR I > believe it was Ross > > Mickey who has in the past > > posted to this list. I have seen his airplane a > few times. According to > > the NTSB prelim report there was > > minor damage and no injuries thankfully. > > > I can confirm that this was Ross Mickey. I spoke > with him directly at a > restaurant on Wednesday night in OSH and got the > whole story. Here's the > scoop as he relayed it to us at dinner... he was on > short final for 27 after > holding for about an hour over the lake. Once they > started landing again > they stuffed a cherokee in front of him on short > final. Spacing was too > tight and speeds were slow. I forget the exact > altitude, but he got hit with > some sort of down draft or wake turbulence at maybe > 50-100' and pancaked > just short of the runway, then rolled up onto the > runway but veered to the > left. When he went off the left edge into the very > soggy grass (from all the > rain) the nosewheel caught and he flipped over > instantly. He has an AOA Pro > and said it never screamed at him ("angle, angle, > push") which is how he > knew it was wake turbulence and not a stall. He was > taken to the hospital > with a bruised sternum and other bruises and > released a day or two later. > > He was insured and has already met with the > adjusters. The plane will likely > be totaled and he plans to buy the salvage back and > rebuild it. He credits > his Hooker harness with preventing serious injury > and especially the fact > that he had a crotch strap (5-point harness). The > anchor for the crotch > strap was seriously deformed. > > Wally Anderson, also from Eugene, flew back to help > him disassemble the > plane and get it back here. He'll likely drop the > engine off at Bart > Lalonde's shop on the drive back to Oregon from OSH. > Yes, the prop struck, > in fact he said he could see the bent tips still > rotating in front of him as > he rolled up onto the runway before he tipped over. > Once he gets back > perhaps he can add some detail, but due to the drive > back don't expect that > for a few days. > > The good news is that Ross is just fine, and also > was insured, whew! I have > never understood why Van's doesn't design a crotch > strap anchor into ALL the > models. If you don't have one please consider adding > it. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-3.com > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:07 AM PST US From: jsflyrv@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: And another crash at Oshkosh? --> RV-List message posted by: jsflyrv@comcast.net What is even stranger is that when I looked up the N# it says it is a Bonanza which would make more sense Jerry do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > On 29 Jul 2005, at 24:24, Jerry Springer wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > > > URL that are long like that make me really appreciate Dan's URL > > shortner > > try it this way. > > http://checkoway.com/url/?s=6a4795b9 > > > > > > And for anyone that is not familier with a URL shortner here is Dan's > > > > http://checkoway.com/url/ > > > > I want to learn more about the first accident on that page - the PTS > S-1 with three people on board - is that a Pitts S-1?. There has got > to be a good story there. > > Kevin Horton > do not archive > > > > > > What is even stranger is that when I looked up the N# it says it is a Bonanza which would make more sense Jerry do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 29 Jul 2005, at 24:24, Jerry Springer wrote: -- RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer URL that are long like that make me really appreciate Dan's URL shortner try it this way. http://checkoway.com/url/?s=6a4795b9 And for anyone that is not familier with a URL shortner here is Dan's http://checkoway.com/url/ I want to learn more about the first accident on that page - the PTS S-1 with three people on board - is that a Pitts S-1?. There has got to be a good story there. Kevin Horton &g t; do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:45 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Firewall forward for sale From: Edward Cole --> RV-List message posted by: Edward Cole Listers, I have 1 too many RV's (1 flying and 1 under construction). I plan on retiring next year so I'm slowly selling off the unfinished RV6A kit. The following items are for sale. I'd like to sell everything as a package But I will sell the cowl, plenum prop and governor as a set. For those of you who have been around RV's for a while you will recognize the Barnard "Howl Cowl" or "Holy Cowl" as they used to call it. This cowl was one of the last that Steve built before he got out of the RV parts business. Steve's RV6A was the RV featured in one of the first CAF evaluations. If you are unfamiliar with Steve Barnard check the Matronic RV list archives. For sale: * Factory Zero time remanufactured 200 hp IO-360A1B6 with new engine log book, yellow tags and all paperwork. * Dynafocal Engine Mount * Isolator Mounts and bolts * Baffle Kit * Vetterman Custom Exhaust * Positech Oil Cooler * Rapco Vacuum system- complete kit, filters fittings, etc. * Cable mounts * Airflow performance Fuel Pump * Andair fuel valve $25,000 * Original Steve Barnard "Howl Cowl" with turned aluminum intake rings carbon induction air box and K&N filter Complete mechanical drawings for the Cowl assembly * Sam James fiberglass Plenum chamber * Hartzell HC-M2YR-1BF/F7666A-2/SM8 Constant speed propeller Special order prop to go with cowl (still in sealed box) * Woodward Governor $7500 The engine is bolted to the mount and mounted on a new engine stand Which I'll include along with a case of Phillips Mineral oil. I'm located near San Jose, CA. (RHV) 408*257*3281 Ed Cole RV6A N2169D Do not archive Do not archive Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:44 PM PST US From: sturdy@att.net Subject: RV-List: Garmin 396 In-Flight Report 1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO --> RV-List message posted by: sturdy@att.net Last week I reported on first impressions of my Garmin 396. Now I will give my impressions of it in flight. I located it in the same provided swivel socket I had my 196 in. I used the same power recepticle (except the 396 charges on ships power) and the same GPS antenna, which I have on the glare shield just behind the windscreen. The Smart Antenna I had to move around to locate as it has a magnetic base and would influence the compass, which I have mounted on the glare shield left on center. I found that I could put the Smart Antenna in the far right rear of the glare shield, just in front of the role bar (RV-8), and it had no effect on the compass. Then I used the audio input cable I had previously for a portable radio to connect the 396 XM Radio output to my audio panel jack. I left for Mason City on Friday and started getting used to the screen, setups, winds display, and radio. Screen is VERY readable, just a slight rotation to get rid of glare, but you can even read it with glare. Setup is personal according to where you want to start seeing things on the screen according to range, and to whether you want to see them on the Nav screen or go to the WX menu. Winds aloft are great and allows you to see surface, 3k, 6k, 9k, etc. By zooming in or out, you can go "in" to see wind barbs or go "out" to see flow patterns at various altitudes coming out of highs or into lows to help with decision making. You have almost 200 channels on the radio to select or scan through to use as background, which the audio panel mutes when there is a radio transmission. Easy to change volume (hit power button, use thumb button left or right, hit enter). After refueling at Iola KS (K88) I headed North. My course line went right through Kansas City airspace, and just to the North of it was a big mass of red, yellow, and green on the 396 nav screen showing NEXRAD. Echo Tops display showed them to be well above where I could fly. Using the winds aloft patterns I decided to go around to the East side of KC and then head for the Northeast corner of the colored mass. As I paralleled the weather, the red, yellow , and green areas on the screen were the same as I was seeing out the window. The greens were light enough rain that I would have gone through if I needed to, whereas the red and yellow had heavy rain falling out of them. Storm Cells showed the movement. An ocassional lightning bolt was soon registered on the screen. By going around the East side I had a tailwind as shown on the Winds Aloft, whereas the West side would have been a headwind. What I saw on the winds aloft screen was duplicated by my GPS groundspeed. By now I know I have made a GOOD investment. Also, the Airmets and Sigmets were displayed by colored dashed lines, and by running the cusor to the lines and getting a readout, I did not have to try to picture what Flight Watch might have been trying to tell me. Another benefit is the voice warning that accompanies the terrain and obstacle display. While flying at Mason City with a formation of 20 on the wing at 1000', it would visually warn me with an inset on the Nav screen of a tower and voice warn me through me through the audio system. Also in the steep final turn it would say "Rate of descent, Pull up". After the formation clinic on the leg from Mason City to OSH with 12 RVs there were some layered clouds and ceilings. Good chance to check out the METARS flags beside each airfield symbol which has weather reporting. I soon found the the flags and the coded display (when you put the cursor over the flag) is only as good as the time stamp in the display. The weather was moving in from the Northwest and the AWOS reporting into the system is usually only hourly, so it was well behind the voice report coming from the AWOS frequency. Something to take into consideration, but the TAFs displayed did forecast the trend. So as I got closer to OSH and listened to the AWOSs in range, I could tell it was not as good as the METARS display was telling me and I took the 12-ship down under through a hole early. On the way home to Texas I was able to take advantage of selecting the right altitude at the right time for the direction by checking the winds aloft patterns. There was a high over KC, and the display for each altitude showed the flow patterns to choose the right altitude. Then passing Dallas going to GTU I could see a big mass of colors South of Waco. By looking at the colors and lightning display I was able to choose where I wanted to go through. As I got closer, looking at the tops sticking up out the window agreeing with the screen display, I was able to select an area of light green between yellows and reds and I flew through the light rain with good vis and make it to the other side into the clear. Great system which paid off on the first trip. Now, if they would just have a turn on/turn off pay system rather than the monthly fee, I could only pay for it when I needed it. Stu McCurdy RV-8 Flying Falcon Flight Last week I reported on first impressions of my Garmin 396. Now I will give my impressions of it in flight. I located it in the same provided swivel socket I had my 196 in. I used the same power recepticle (except the 396 charges on ships power) and the same GPS antenna, which I have on the glare shield just behind the windscreen. The Smart Antenna I had to move around to locate as it has a magnetic base and would influence the compass, which I have mounted on the glare shield left on center. I found that I could put the Smart Antenna in the far right rear of the glare shield, just in front of the role bar (RV-8), and it had no effect on the compass. Then I used the audio input cable I had previously for a portable radio to connect the 396 XM Radio output to my audio panel jack. I left for Mason City on Friday and started getting used to the screen, setups, winds display, and radio. Screen is VERY readable, just a slight rotation to get rid of glare, but you can even read it with glare. Setup is personal according to where you want to start seeing things on the screen according to range, and to whether you want to see them on the Nav screen or go to the WX menu. Winds aloft are great and allows you to see surface, 3k, 6k, 9k, etc. By zooming in or out, you can go "in" to see wind barbs or go "out" to see flow patterns at various altitudes coming out of highs or into lows to help with decision making. You have almost 200 channels on the radio to select or scan through to use as background, which the audio panel mutes when there is a radio transmission. Easy to change volume (hit power button, use thumb button left or right, hit enter). After refueling at Iola KS (K88) I headed North. My course line went right through Kansas City airspace, and just to the North of it was a big mass of red, yellow, and green on the 396 nav screen showing NEXRAD. Echo Tops display showed them to be well above where I could fly. Using the winds aloft patterns I decided to go around to the East side of KC and then head for the Northeast corner of the colored mass. As I paralleled the weather, the red, yellow , and green areas on the screen were the same as I was seeing out the window. The greens were light enough rain that I would have gone through if I needed to, whereas the red and yellow had heavy rain falling out of them. Storm Cells showed the movement. An ocassional lightning bolt was soon registered on the screen. By going around the East side I had a tailwind as shown on the Winds Aloft, whereas the West side would have been a headwind. What I saw on the winds aloft screen was duplicated by my GPS groundspeed. By now I know I have made a GOOD investment. Also, the Airmets and Sigmets were displayed by colored dashed lines, and by running the cusor to the lines and getting a readout, I did not have to try to picture what Flight Watch might have been trying to tell me. Another benefit is the voice warning that accompanies the terrain and obstacle display. While flying at Mason City with a formation of 20 on the wing at 1000', it would visually warn me with an inset on the Nav screen of a tower and voice warn me through me through the audio system. Also in the steep final turn it would say "Rate of descent, Pull up". After the formation clinic on the leg from Mason City to OSH with 12 RVs there were some layered clouds and ceilings. Good chance to check out the METARS flags beside each airfield symbol which has weather reporting. I soon found the the flags and the coded display (when you put the cursor over the flag) is only as good as the time stamp in the display. The weather was moving in from the Northwest and the AWOS reporting into the system is usually only hourly, so it was well behind the voice report coming from the AWOS frequency. Something to take into consideration, but the TAFs displayed did forecast the trend. So as I got closer to OSH and listened to the AWOSs in range, I could tell it was not as good as the METARS display was telling me and I took the 12-ship down under through a hole early. On the way home to Texas I was able to take advantage of selecting the right altitude at the right time for the direction by checking the winds aloft patterns. There was a high over KC, and the display for each altitude showed the flow patterns to choose the right altitude. Then passing Dallas going to GTU I could see a big mass of colors South of Waco. By looking at the colors and lightning display I was able to choose where I wanted to go through. As I got closer, looking at the tops sticking up out the window agreeing with the screen display, I was able to select an area of light green between yellows and reds and I flew through the light rain with good vis and make it to the other side into the clear. Great system which paid off on the first trip. Now, if they would just have a turn on/turn off pay system rather than the monthly fee, I could only pay for it when I needed it. Stu McCurdy RV-8 Flying Falcon Flight ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:02 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 396 In-Flight Report --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" Subject: RV-List: Garmin 396 In-Flight Report > --> RV-List message posted by: sturdy@att.net > >Using the winds aloft patterns I decided to go > around to the East side of KC and then head for the Northeast corner of > the colored > mass. I have carefully studied all the manuals that are on line and find several things are ambiguous. One is the reference to winds aloft. Garmin does not say whether these are forecast or observed winds. They just call them winds aloft. I strongly suspect they are the forecast winds, which are sometimes right and often wrong. If they are forecast does it show the forecast time on the display? I can not find the valid time in the pictures that are available on line. Have mine on order anyway. Truly hard to believe what is available on the unit. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net