Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:28 AM - Who was hot? (John Lawson)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Ed Anderson)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: Rudder Leading edge ()
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Rudder Leading edge (Rick Galati)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Scott Bilinski)
6. 07:06 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Larry Pardue)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: long power out glide question (sportav8r@aol.com)
8. 07:45 AM - Balance (John Furey)
9. 08:02 AM - Re: long power out glide question (charlie heathco)
10. 08:07 AM - Re: Balance (charlie heathco)
11. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Leading edge (Rob Prior (rv7))
12. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Leading edge (Terry Watson)
13. 09:13 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Ed Anderson)
14. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Leading edge (Jim Jewell)
15. 09:42 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Scott Bilinski)
16. 10:10 AM - Re: Oil Separator (Jeff Dowling)
17. 10:27 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Ed Anderson)
18. 10:31 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Jeff Dowling)
19. 10:32 AM - Stanley Ehlinger (J.T. Helms)
20. 10:32 AM - Re: long power out glide question (Ed Anderson)
21. 10:58 AM - Re: long power out glide question (sportav8r@aol.com)
22. 11:17 AM - Re: Oil Separator (Terry Watson)
23. 12:20 PM - oil lube (Wheeler North)
24. 12:33 PM - Re: Balance (Jeff Point)
25. 12:39 PM - Re: long power out glide question (Jeff Dowling)
26. 01:25 PM - Re: long power out glide question (Tom Gummo)
27. 02:05 PM - More Hinge Pin Hell (Cowling) (Stein Bruch)
28. 02:44 PM - Re: long power out glide question (Hull, Don)
29. 03:40 PM - Re: long power out glide question (Ed Anderson)
30. 03:49 PM - Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? (Kevin Horton)
31. 04:19 PM - Re: oil lube (Larry Bowen)
32. 04:27 PM - Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? (Robert Cutter)
33. 04:29 PM - Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? (Brian Alley)
34. 05:07 PM - Re: Balance (glaesers)
35. 07:43 PM - Re: Oil Separator (charlie heathco)
36. 08:03 PM - Auto pilot disconect control in stick question (charlie heathco)
37. 08:45 PM - Re: Auto pilot disconect control in stick question (Sam Buchanan)
38. 08:45 PM - Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? (Joe Hine)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: John Lawson <rv6builder48138@yahoo.com>
> Time: 09:49:45 AM PST US
> From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine hick up at a bad time
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
> I was running full rich, but I dropped someone off
> after
> a 2 hour flight just minutes before. She was
> definitely hot.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..."She was definitely hot"...that has
some interesting implications :)
do not archive the above innuendo
John
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Charlie,
Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>
> I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
> pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage and
> smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
> get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think it
> was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10 mi
> out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
> remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
> if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
> heathco
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading edge |
--> RV-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Rick,
The rudder leading edge can not been seen when installed. Look at the rear spar/skin
area of your vertical stabilizer to see why. Don't worry about this and
move on. If it really bugs you, you can fill the gap with ProSeal while you build
your fuel tanks. That will ensure that water doesn't enter the rudder (from
that area) while flying in rain.
Charlie Kuss
---- Richard Leach <papadaddyo@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>
> I just finished rolling and riveting the leading edge of the rudder
> tonight. Wow, wasn't squeezing g that thing together fun. It turned
> out pretty good with the top section nearest the counterbalance rib and
> the bottom section are very good with the riveted edge very tight. The
> center section is not quite as tight. There are about three places
> where I could not get a good bend on the edge and after riveting, there
> is a slight gap between the two skins. The gap is very slight in all
> three places but wanting to be a perfectionist, I thought I would get
> some thoughts from the group. Is there a problem if the two skins are
> not perfectly tight at the edges, should I drill the section out and try
> and tighten them up, or should I let it go and deal with it when I
> paint? Y the way, the roll is very equal and symmetrical these small
> gaps seem to be the only problem.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> Rick Leach
> 40397
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading edge |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Hi Rick,
Having completed an empennage group recently, I am aware of your situation. Strictly
speaking, it matters not if the seam is uneven, it will not show and it
does not compromise aerodynamics. I assume you used the "broomstick" method
to roll the skins but even then I was not happy with the end result on two occasions.
The builders manual cautions about the difficulty of drilling out those
AD-41-ABS rivets so you would not do it lightly. Still, I am a highly experienced
ex-production sheet metal worker and did just that...with no real difficulty.
Once I had a chance to rework the skins partly by "massaging" them by
hand and partly by applying the broomstick again, it occured to me....roll a very
slight bend into the overlapping skin much as you would any overlapping or
abutting skin anywhere on the airframe surface to discourage gaps at the joint.
This helped significantly. After reriveting the skins together the verdict
was in......in the first instance it improved the
seam
noticably, the other time the end result was only marginally better. I would
say leave well enough alone.....only you will ever know the condition exists.
When you get to the elevators however, try slightly bending the edges of the
upper (overlapping) skins first before you roll the skins as I mentioned before.
You should see at least some improvement.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 65 hours
RV-8A empennage complete
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
What was the AGL?
At 09:02 AM 8/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Hi Charlie,
>
>Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
>touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
>altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
>couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
> >
> > I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
> > pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage and
> > smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
> > get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think it
> > was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10 mi
> > out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
> > remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
> > if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
> > heathco
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
autolearn=ham version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Ed,
Nice job on getting the plane down safely.
I am curious about the statement "best glide was 87 MPH." Is this something
you determined before hand? It sounds like you determined it during the
event.
Remember that best glide is not the same as minimum descent rate.
On 8/10/05 7:02 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Ed's numbers suggest a glide ratio of no better than 7.6:1 if we can assume nautical
miles and airport at sea level (which Winchester TN isn't, I'm certain),
or 6.7:1 if he's using statute miles. RV's are supposed to glide a bit better
than that, so the "extra altitude" isn't surprising. Charlie's data does surprise
me, since a 10 mile glide from 5000 feet is 12:1 glide ratio if miles are
nautical, 10.6:1 if statute, and I thought our planes did no better than about
9:1 with their stubby little Hershey bar wings. To have extra altitude after
a glide like that suggests that idle power helps considerably in stretching
the glide.
I'd like to research this a but in my own plane, but the shock cooling issues worry
me a bit. I simply flight plan for 9:1 at 90 mph IAS for "safe" overwater
cruising altitude calcualtions. This is always plus or minus the winds, when
figuring whether to press on or turn back halfway out over the water.
I try to make 10 overhead landings at my home strip for every one conventional
pattern I fly, so I will be current on how to handle the excess altitude/speed
in a forced landing. I'm pretty confident now that if I can dive down to the
key point ("perch") at anything less than Vne, I can nail a spot-landing without
power after a 360 overhead with progressive use of flaps and slips. That's
reassuring, but I've never done it with the engine off.
Just tossing numbers out for consideration...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Charlie,
Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>
> I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
> pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage and
> smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
> get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think it
> was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10 mi
> out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
> remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
> if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
> heathco
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I checked the archives but did not come away with much help. Can anyone
describe how they have balanced their nose gear and main fairings. My nose
gear pulses about 1/2" in level flight. Also any advice on how to
effectively balance the tires?
Thanks
John
RIVA 425 hrs
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
Re glide power out VS ideling there is a noticable diff in decent rate (also
a noticable diff in pucker factor,right Ed? :-). When I was training in
cherokees mid 60's
simulated power loss'es were done by killing the engine with the mixture,
then restoring to richwhen instructor was satisfied that you could make your
target. I think the reason they quit that method was due to engines not
restarting. Charlie Heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Ed's numbers suggest a glide ratio of no better than 7.6:1 if we can assume
nautical miles and airport at sea level (which Winchester TN isn't, I'm
certain), or 6.7:1 if he's using statute miles. RV's are supposed to glide
a bit better than that, so the "extra altitude" isn't surprising. Charlie's
data does surprise me, since a 10 mile glide from 5000 feet is 12:1 glide
ratio if miles are nautical, 10.6:1 if statute, and I thought our planes did
no better than about 9:1 with their stubby little Hershey bar wings. To
have extra altitude after a glide like that suggests that idle power helps
considerably in stretching the glide.
I'd like to research this a but in my own plane, but the shock cooling
issues worry me a bit. I simply flight plan for 9:1 at 90 mph IAS for
"safe" overwater cruising altitude calcualtions. This is always plus or
minus the winds, when figuring whether to press on or turn back halfway out
over the water.
I try to make 10 overhead landings at my home strip for every one
conventional pattern I fly, so I will be current on how to handle the excess
altitude/speed in a forced landing. I'm pretty confident now that if I can
dive down to the key point ("perch") at anything less than Vne, I can nail a
spot-landing without power after a 360 overhead with progressive use of
flaps and slips. That's reassuring, but I've never done it with the engine
off.
Just tossing numbers out for consideration...
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Charlie,
Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>
> I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
> pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage and
> smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
> get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think it
> was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10 mi
> out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
> remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
> if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
> heathco
>
>
Message 10
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version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
John, I dont think nose gear fairings have enough area in the front section
to have much effect, but I used a method given here to ballance mains buy
adding fish line weights to the front to get a balance over a stick placed
at wheel center, then epoxying them in. Charlie heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RV-List: Balance
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I checked the archives but did not come away with much help. Can anyone
describe how they have balanced their nose gear and main fairings. My nose
gear pulses about 1/2" in level flight. Also any advice on how to
effectively balance the tires?
Thanks
John
RIVA 425 hrs
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading edge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 6:12:48 2005-08-10 Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com> wrote:
> it occured to me....roll a very slight bend into the overlapping skin
> much as you would any overlapping or abutting skin anywhere on the
> airframe surface to discourage gaps at the joint. This helped
> significantly.
This reminds me, I saw at Arlington one year someone selling a device for
"tweaking" the edge of a piece of sheet aluminum in this manner. If I
recall clearly, it looked like two rollers with matching bevels on them,
that you simply roll down the edge of the sheet, and you end up with about
a 3/16" to 1/4" bend or lip on the edge of the sheet. The bend wasn't more
than about 15 degrees or so, but it looked like it would be just enough for
this rudder leading edge.
Anyone know what this tool is called, or where to buy one?
-Rob
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading edge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Avery calls it an Edge Rolling Tool, part # 1042, $14.00 in their 2001
catalog.
Terry
This reminds me, I saw at Arlington one year someone selling a device for
"tweaking" the edge of a piece of sheet aluminum in this manner. If I
recall clearly, it looked like two rollers with matching bevels on them,
that you simply roll down the edge of the sheet, and you end up with about
a 3/16" to 1/4" bend or lip on the edge of the sheet. The bend wasn't more
than about 15 degrees or so, but it looked like it would be just enough for
this rudder leading edge.
Anyone know what this tool is called, or where to buy one?
-Rob
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Scott, Terran elevation was on the average around 1500 feet as best I recall
(I was 12 miles SE of Winchester,TN) on the Alabama/TN border. Don't have a
map handy to look up the terrain elevation. But, if you have a Sectional of
that area, the engine quite over a tiny little burg by the name (of all
things) Anderson! So you could say the spot the engine quit had my name on
it. Hummmmm. I believe I was approx 1500 or so AGL over Winchester,TN
airport - at Least enough altitude to do a 360 turn and a couple of S turns
and still came over the fence close to 100 mph - fortunately had 4000 ft
plus runway to get it on the ground.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> What was the AGL?
>
> At 09:02 AM 8/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>>Hi Charlie,
>>
>>Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
>>touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
>>altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
>>couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>Matthews, NC
>>eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>> >
>> > I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores
>> > sans
>> > pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage
>> > and
>> > smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider
>> > and
>> > get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think
>> > it
>> > was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10
>> > mi
>> > out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
>> > remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just
>> > wondered
>> > if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
>> > heathco
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Leading edge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Rob,
Try Avery tools or Cleavland tools.
The top of Page 54, Part no. 1042 edge rolling tool, in the 2002 Avery
catalog for instance is the tool I have used with success.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Rudder Leading edge
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
> On 6:12:48 2005-08-10 Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> it occured to me....roll a very slight bend into the overlapping skin
>> much as you would any overlapping or abutting skin anywhere on the
>> airframe surface to discourage gaps at the joint. This helped
>> significantly.
>
> This reminds me, I saw at Arlington one year someone selling a device for
> "tweaking" the edge of a piece of sheet aluminum in this manner. If I
> recall clearly, it looked like two rollers with matching bevels on them,
> that you simply roll down the edge of the sheet, and you end up with about
> a 3/16" to 1/4" bend or lip on the edge of the sheet. The bend wasn't
> more
> than about 15 degrees or so, but it looked like it would be just enough
> for
> this rudder leading edge.
>
> Anyone know what this tool is called, or where to buy one?
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Thanks for the info. I was just trying to equate altitude, to distance, so
roughly, 8k AGL = 12 and maybe as much as 15 miles, depending on wind. That
could be key when hitting the nearest button on the GPS, and knowing you
can or cannot make the airport and start looking for someplace else safe to
land.
At 12:13 PM 8/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Scott, Terran elevation was on the average around 1500 feet as best I recall
>(I was 12 miles SE of Winchester,TN) on the Alabama/TN border. Don't have a
>map handy to look up the terrain elevation. But, if you have a Sectional of
>that area, the engine quite over a tiny little burg by the name (of all
>things) Anderson! So you could say the spot the engine quit had my name on
>it. Hummmmm. I believe I was approx 1500 or so AGL over Winchester,TN
>airport - at Least enough altitude to do a 360 turn and a couple of S turns
>and still came over the fence close to 100 mph - fortunately had 4000 ft
>plus runway to get it on the ground.
>
>Ed
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > What was the AGL?
> >
> > At 09:02 AM 8/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> >>
> >>Hi Charlie,
> >>
> >>Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
> >>touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
> >>altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
> >>couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
> >>
> >>Ed Anderson
> >>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> >>Matthews, NC
> >>eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
> >>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
> >> >
> >> > I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores
> >> > sans
> >> > pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage
> >> > and
> >> > smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider
> >> > and
> >> > get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think
> >> > it
> >> > was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10
> >> > mi
> >> > out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
> >> > remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just
> >> > wondered
> >> > if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
> >> > heathco
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 305
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Somewhat related.....
Ive noticed when doing my oil changes that putting 6 qts in brings my
dipstick reading to 8. Even after running the engine and getting it warm
enough to get to the filter, it still reads very near 8. Hmmmm.
There were some c-172's on the field with io360's and I tried their
dipsticks but they were way too long.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Jim Cimino wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>>
>>The rods and crankshaft are pressure fed in a Lycoming Engine and the
>>crankshaft is in the middle of the engine. If you drop the sump, there is
>>no direct access from there to the rods or crankshaft, so I don't
>>understand
>>how keeping the sump full adds to the possibility of the rods coming in
>>contact with the oil?
>>
> If you do drop the pan and look closely at the case parting liine,
> you'll see some oval holes that the oil drains down through to the sump
> after it's done it's job lubricating things.
>
>> I know that can happen in a car engine, but I don't
>>see that having any bearing on an aircraft engine.
>>
> It really doesn't. I believe that if you put all 8 quarts (or whatever
> is 'full' for your engine) in, the level will rise above the level of
> the sump into the crank cavity where it's whipped a little and goes out
> the crankcase vent. I also think that when the level gets down to 6
> qts, the oil level is down in the sump. It would be easy to check by
> comparing the level of the 8 qt mark on the dipstick to the level of the
> dipstick tube. The next time I have the cowl off, I'll check. Y'all
> can do the same and report back.
>
>> I think what causes most oil loss is just simple blow-by.
>>
> I think you're right!
>
>> These engine get a lot of oil to the tops
>>of the cylinders and some is going to get past the guides and seals and
>>into
>>the combustion chamber, the more oil you put up there, the more gets by.
>>
> I don't think this is true. There is some oil pumped to the rocker area
> through the pushrods ..... and that oil really aids in cooling ....
> especially the exhaust valve. Keep an eye on CHTs for #3, as it's
> typically the hottest .... and has the lowest amount of oil flow due to
> it being at the end of the oil gallery.
>
>> By flipping a plane around, you may increase it.
>>
> Nah. Almost all the oil goes out the breather or your inverted oil
> system if you have one. On a tight engine, (read good cylinders and
> rings) the amount burned is negligible compared to what you'll dump
> overboard doing akro ..... unless you're really good and only pull + Gs.
>
>> Lycoming also states that it is safe to fly an IO-360 on as little as
>> two quarts, but the additional oil helps provide cooling.
>>
> True. However, if you fill the oil to the 'full' mark (8 qts), you'll
> lose the first two rapidly out the breather. Bill Gunn has already
> covered WHY it says fill to 8 qts!!!
> Linn
>
>>Jim
>>
>>Jim Cimino
>>N7TL
>>RV-8 S/N 80039
>>150+ Hours
>>http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Separator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
>>>><alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I had an interesting conversation with a Lycoming engineer several
>>>>>years
>>>>>ago. Q: why does a full (8 quarts in most 4 cylinder engines, 12 quarts
>>>>>in
>>>>>most 6 cylinder engines) sump either burn or blow out oil? Why mark the
>>>>>dip stick to a quantity that will not remain in the engine? Is there
>>>>>any
>>>>>harm is running less oil in the sump on a routine basis? Answer:
>>>>>regulations !
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>The regulations maybe explain some of it, but I'd still be curious why
>>>>the
>>>>sump level would cause oil to go to the very top of the engine and out
>>>>the
>>>>breather.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I have the Christen system and never have any oil overboard, and I
>>>>fill
>>>>it to 8 qts. I consider those last two quarts as insurance.
>>>>
>>>>Alex Peterson
>>>>RV6A N6AP 651 hours
>>>>Maple Grove, MN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>The answer is that the oil doesn't "go to the very top of the engine and
>>>out
>>>the breather"... What happens is that the higher oil level means the oil
>>>is
>>>that much closer to the crankshaft and rods, which means the
>>>reciprocating
>>>parts are that much more likely to come into contact with the oil in the
>>>pan during any uncoordinated turns, climbs, or unusual attitude
>>>maneuvers.
>>>When that happens, the oil splashes around, and some is turned into
>>>droplets
>>>and goes out the breather.
>>>
>>>By the way, I notice that I get far less oil on the belly if I keep the
>>>greasy side down. My Oshkosh trip this year was Atlanta to Minneapolis
>>>to
>>>Oshkosh to Chicago to Ann Arbor and back to Atlanta. With my wife along,
>>>I
>>>was under a strict edict to fly smooth, and as level as possible. I
>>>don't
>>>have the hours handy, but I'm guessing 12-14 or so for the total trip. I
>>>didn't add any oil and the belly was relatively clean when I got home.
>>>In
>>>the same number of hours of local flying, I'd probably do 25 rolls, a
>>>number
>>>of wing overs, some lazy 8's, and several other positive G maneuvers.
>>>Over
>>>that span, I'd need to add at least a quart of oil and the airplane's
>>>belly
>>>would be a mess...
>>>
>>>Kyle Boatright
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Larry
Thanks, it was a long 8 minutes or so.
I should rephrase my statement - yes, I did have time to experiment with
airspeed. So I should state that my minimum descent rate was obtained on
that day with that gross weight (approx 1550 lbs) at 87 mph (prop stopped).
Any faster airspeed and the sink rate went up and any slower and it went up.
I also found the prop would stop rotating at 110 mph. So it was not best
glide, as you point out, but minimum sink rate. Fortunately, when I punch
up the nst on my Garmin 195 it showed the two closest airports both 12
miles away - one slightly to my right was up wind and the other over my
left rear quarter was down wind. Recalling from my old days of flying an
Aronica Champ, I knew that downwind would buy me much more distance so made
a 120 deg turn to Winchester and needless to say it turn out OK.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> Ed,
>
> Nice job on getting the plane down safely.
>
> I am curious about the statement "best glide was 87 MPH." Is this
> something
> you determined before hand? It sounds like you determined it during the
> event.
>
> Remember that best glide is not the same as minimum descent rate.
>
>
> On 8/10/05 7:02 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a
>> safe
>> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with
>> excess
>> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
>> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>>
>
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
I was able to keep from shock cooling my engine during a practice engine out
by running rich and slowing down way early, from 10k. It was tough to get
the prop to stop and took a lot of speed to get it back going again. I
didnt pull the prop out so my numbers arent good. I'll try again later.
do not archive
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Ed's numbers suggest a glide ratio of no better than 7.6:1 if we can
> assume nautical miles and airport at sea level (which Winchester TN isn't,
> I'm certain), or 6.7:1 if he's using statute miles. RV's are supposed to
> glide a bit better than that, so the "extra altitude" isn't surprising.
> Charlie's data does surprise me, since a 10 mile glide from 5000 feet is
> 12:1 glide ratio if miles are nautical, 10.6:1 if statute, and I thought
> our planes did no better than about 9:1 with their stubby little Hershey
> bar wings. To have extra altitude after a glide like that suggests that
> idle power helps considerably in stretching the glide.
>
> I'd like to research this a but in my own plane, but the shock cooling
> issues worry me a bit. I simply flight plan for 9:1 at 90 mph IAS for
> "safe" overwater cruising altitude calcualtions. This is always plus or
> minus the winds, when figuring whether to press on or turn back halfway
> out over the water.
>
> I try to make 10 overhead landings at my home strip for every one
> conventional pattern I fly, so I will be current on how to handle the
> excess altitude/speed in a forced landing. I'm pretty confident now that
> if I can dive down to the key point ("perch") at anything less than Vne, I
> can nail a spot-landing without power after a 360 overhead with
> progressive use of flaps and slips. That's reassuring, but I've never
> done it with the engine off.
>
> Just tossing numbers out for consideration...
>
> -Stormy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>>
>> I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
>> pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage
>> and
>> smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
>> get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think
>> it
>> was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10
>> mi
>> out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
>> remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
>> if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
>> heathco
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Stanley Ehlinger |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J.T. Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Any one know new contact info for Stanley? Or Stanley are you out there?
If so, please email me at jhelms@nationair.com or call us toll free at 877
475 5860.
Contact numbers we have for you are all disconnected, and WWW search has
turned up empty.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
Light Aircraft Office
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Stormy,
I did sit down at one point and calculated out the glide ratio given the
altitude of Winchester, TN and my arrival altitude at Winchester and it came
out to around 9.2:1. Giving that I varied my airspeed during that glide as
well using a minimum rate of descent which I erroneously called my "best
glide". So fudging in for those factors and I would not be surprised if the
actual glide ratio was pretty close to 10:1. I for one was quite happy to
have glided 12 miles and arrived with "altitude to spare".
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Ed's numbers suggest a glide ratio of no better than 7.6:1 if we can
> assume nautical miles and airport at sea level (which Winchester TN isn't,
> I'm certain), or 6.7:1 if he's using statute miles. RV's are supposed to
> glide a bit better than that, so the "extra altitude" isn't surprising.
> Charlie's data does surprise me, since a 10 mile glide from 5000 feet is
> 12:1 glide ratio if miles are nautical, 10.6:1 if statute, and I thought
> our planes did no better than about 9:1 with their stubby little Hershey
> bar wings. To have extra altitude after a glide like that suggests that
> idle power helps considerably in stretching the glide.
>
> I'd like to research this a but in my own plane, but the shock cooling
> issues worry me a bit. I simply flight plan for 9:1 at 90 mph IAS for
> "safe" overwater cruising altitude calcualtions. This is always plus or
> minus the winds, when figuring whether to press on or turn back halfway
> out over the water.
>
> I try to make 10 overhead landings at my home strip for every one
> conventional pattern I fly, so I will be current on how to handle the
> excess altitude/speed in a forced landing. I'm pretty confident now that
> if I can dive down to the key point ("perch") at anything less than Vne, I
> can nail a spot-landing without power after a 360 overhead with
> progressive use of flaps and slips. That's reassuring, but I've never
> done it with the engine off.
>
> Just tossing numbers out for consideration...
>
> -Stormy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a safe
> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with excess
> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>>
>> I just watched the reinactment of the airbuss coming into the azores sans
>> pwer and I admit It brought tears to my eyes to experience the courage
>> and
>> smarts to bring that huge plane down for such a long way as a glider and
>> get her down safly. I remember posting a question back in March I think
>> it
>> was abouit trying to bring my 6a down on Jeff county Ga at idle from 10
>> mi
>> out at 5000'. I ended up overshooting in spite of slips and stuff. I
>> remember quite a few responses re trying something simular. Just wondered
>> if anyone had tried a long gluide successfully since then?? Charlie
>> heathco
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
I'm glad you did, Ed. Always better to have too much than too little. Knowing
how to arrive hot by diving to the runway when necessary, followed by a tight
360 to burn off the energy and arrive back at the numbers is a skill to be cherished
but hopefully never needed :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Stormy,
I did sit down at one point and calculated out the glide ratio given the
altitude of Winchester, TN and my arrival altitude at Winchester and it came
out to around 9.2:1. Giving that I varied my airspeed during that glide as
well using a minimum rate of descent which I erroneously called my "best
glide". So fudging in for those factors and I would not be surprised if the
actual glide ratio was pretty close to 10:1. I for one was quite happy to
have glided 12 miles and arrived with "altitude to spare".
Ed
Message 22
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I used to fly with a friend quite a bit in his Cessna 185 on amphibious
floats. I wanted to bring the oil up to the full mark; he didn't. When we
did fill it up, it seemed to get blown back on the belly. It occurred to me
that the 185 is designed as a tail-wheel airplane, and maybe the dipstick
would have read different with a tailwheel than it did sitting level on the
floats. Could that apply to nose wheel vs. tail wheel RV's?
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dowling
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Somewhat related.....
Ive noticed when doing my oil changes that putting 6 qts in brings my
dipstick reading to 8. Even after running the engine and getting it warm
enough to get to the filter, it still reads very near 8. Hmmmm.
There were some c-172's on the field with io360's and I tried their
dipsticks but they were way too long.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
Actually,
in the four cyl lycs, number 3 tappet oil comes right off the very beginning
of the oil feed gallery, which is what feeds the oil to the cyl heads via
the push rods.
But that said, that gallery that feeds the tappets is very large so I would
expect that they all see the same amount of flow at 50+ psi.
Since clearing my cooling fin flashing on the fins between the spark plugs
on all cylinders, number 3 is only hottest during full power ops, at all
other time 1, 2, & 3 all remain close and will vary as to which is hottest.
Number 4 is always colder, probably due to being a carbureted engine which
is also probably what causes 3 to be hot during full power. The whole idea
of a pressure air plenum is to keep delta P across each cylinder equal.
RE Piston spray nozzles, these are used on most of the injected engines and
or high compression helo engines where they are extracting slightly more
horsepower out of each cylinder. In the parallel valve group they use the
same or similar cylinders so to reject the extra heat they install piston
spray nozzles off the gallery that carries oil to the tappets and to the cam
spray holes. If I remember correctly these nozzles have a pressure valve
that opens above 37 psi so that under low RPM/oil flow conditions they
remain closed ensuring adequate flow to other areas during operating times
where high heat is not being developed.
They actually don't spray much but rather shoot a stream across the case
onto the bottom of the opposing piston. But I imagine stream this gets
fairly blasted as the piston trucking right along.
That said, the cam spray nozzles also rain oil down upon the crank, along
with all the oil the crank is throwing from the mains and con rod bearings.
So foam and oil vapor is very prevalent regardless of oil sump contents.
I would expect its more of an issue about condensation and defoaming area as
well as the route case gasses flow. If the sump is full there is very little
oil pool surface area to condensate the vapor, nor is there much volume for
the foam to degas. As well the internal case flow for air/bypass gasses is
going to be out the two back slots, and down the three sump slots with lower
a oil level, but if those lower slots are full of oil/foam, the gasses, and
possibly foam has to go out the back slots, and up into the accessory case.
W
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Are you looking to balance the tires, or the wheel pants? For wheel
pants, here's how I did it, and it worked out quite well. Reduced main
gear shimmy to nothing.
http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/wheel%20pants.htm
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Has anyone come up with a good "high key", engine out?
do not archive
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> I'm glad you did, Ed. Always better to have too much than too little.
> Knowing how to arrive hot by diving to the runway when necessary, followed
> by a tight 360 to burn off the energy and arrive back at the numbers is a
> skill to be cherished but hopefully never needed :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi Stormy,
>
> I did sit down at one point and calculated out the glide ratio given the
> altitude of Winchester, TN and my arrival altitude at Winchester and it
> came
> out to around 9.2:1. Giving that I varied my airspeed during that glide
> as
> well using a minimum rate of descent which I erroneously called my "best
> glide". So fudging in for those factors and I would not be surprised if
> the
> actual glide ratio was pretty close to 10:1. I for one was quite happy to
> have glided 12 miles and arrived with "altitude to spare".
>
> Ed
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
200 miles, worked for the Space Shuttle, it came down engine out. :-)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>
> Has anyone come up with a good "high key", engine out?
>
> do not archive
>
> Shemp/Jeff Dowling
> RV-6A, N915JD
> 235 hours
> Chicago/Louisville
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sportav8r@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>>
>> I'm glad you did, Ed. Always better to have too much than too little.
>> Knowing how to arrive hot by diving to the runway when necessary,
>> followed
>> by a tight 360 to burn off the energy and arrive back at the numbers is a
>> skill to be cherished but hopefully never needed :-)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>>
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>> Hi Stormy,
>>
>> I did sit down at one point and calculated out the glide ratio given the
>> altitude of Winchester, TN and my arrival altitude at Winchester and it
>> came
>> out to around 9.2:1. Giving that I varied my airspeed during that glide
>> as
>> well using a minimum rate of descent which I erroneously called my "best
>> glide". So fudging in for those factors and I would not be surprised if
>> the
>> actual glide ratio was pretty close to 10:1. I for one was quite happy
>> to
>> have glided 12 miles and arrived with "altitude to spare".
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | More Hinge Pin Hell (Cowling) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
So, there I was yesterday ready to pull the cowl off the ole RV6 for an oil
change an general checkup. Went to pull the bottom pins (down by the
exhaust) and to my surprise, one pin came out VERY easily, except there was
only half of it there!
Now I'm in a pickle. Half of the hinge pin is still in the hinge, but
completely ubstructed by the landing gear on the outside so I can't push it
out from there.
I'm looking for any neat suggestions....
My plan - I'm going to drill out those #@$#%
$ pins on the bottom and put in
camlocks or nutplates like I should have to begin with (like I did on the
new RV6).
Just a reminder for everyone out there. You might seriously consider
installing either camlocks or nutplates at least on those bottom pins from
the get go. I did on my later RV and I'll never use pins for the entire
cowling again, especially around the firewall.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
Message 28
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| Subject: | long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull@nasa.gov>
Ed,
Congratulations on your successful landing and Thank You for sharing the
experience with us.
I'm sure you had a lot on your mind but if your engine-out had been on the
first Saturday morning of the month between apx. 7:30 and 9:00, you would
have been just in time for a delicious breakfast served up by the Winchester
EAA Chapter and the local high school band boosters. The identifier is BGF
so if any of you guys and gals want a good breakfast destination, put this
one on your calendar.
One other thought...if your engine out had coincided with the EAA breakfast
at BGF, your pucker factor would probably have been higher due to all the
traffic in the pattern. :
o Yikes!
Anyway, thanks again for sharing your data with us.
Don Hull
Decatur, Al
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Larry
Thanks, it was a long 8 minutes or so.
I should rephrase my statement - yes, I did have time to experiment with
airspeed. So I should state that my minimum descent rate was obtained on
that day with that gross weight (approx 1550 lbs) at 87 mph (prop stopped).
Any faster airspeed and the sink rate went up and any slower and it went up.
I also found the prop would stop rotating at 110 mph. So it was not best
glide, as you point out, but minimum sink rate. Fortunately, when I punch
up the nst on my Garmin 195 it showed the two closest airports both 12
miles away - one slightly to my right was up wind and the other over my
left rear quarter was down wind. Recalling from my old days of flying an
Aronica Champ, I knew that downwind would buy me much more distance so made
a 120 deg turn to Winchester and needless to say it turn out OK.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> Ed,
>
> Nice job on getting the plane down safely.
>
> I am curious about the statement "best glide was 87 MPH." Is this
> something
> you determined before hand? It sounds like you determined it during the
> event.
>
> Remember that best glide is not the same as minimum descent rate.
>
>
> On 8/10/05 7:02 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
>> --> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a
>> safe
>> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with
>> excess
>> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
>> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>>
>
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: long power out glide question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi Don,
Yes, as best I recall this was on a Thursday morning - no traffic at all.
Some of your local chapter showed up to watch me pull the cowl off and
ascertain that there was nothing wrong with the engine (nor the left full
tank). Turns out my flop tube had fallen off of its bulkhead fitting in the
right tank - and I (stupidly) decided that since I knew I had 3 gallons left
in the right tank (that much was true) that availability of fuel was not the
problem (that much was wrong). I convinced myself that my coarse fuel
filter (common to both tanks) had plugged up with some of that slosh
compound we used to use to seal the tanks. Soooo, did not turn the fuel
select handle over to the left tank (started to - then talked myself out of
it, should never have listened {:>)). Had I simply switched fuel tanks like
my old instructor always hammered into my head - there would have been no
glide.
I had flow over 200 hours before the flop tube backed off its fitting, so
can only assume I must have screwed it on only hand tight and vibration
eventually worked it loose - its on tight now.
I do intend to drop back in on your guys one of these days - with power.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull@nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: RV-List: long power out glide question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull@nasa.gov>
>
> Ed,
> Congratulations on your successful landing and Thank You for sharing the
> experience with us.
>
> I'm sure you had a lot on your mind but if your engine-out had been on the
> first Saturday morning of the month between apx. 7:30 and 9:00, you would
> have been just in time for a delicious breakfast served up by the
> Winchester
> EAA Chapter and the local high school band boosters. The identifier is
> BGF
> so if any of you guys and gals want a good breakfast destination, put this
> one on your calendar.
>
> One other thought...if your engine out had coincided with the EAA
> breakfast
> at BGF, your pucker factor would probably have been higher due to all the
> traffic in the pattern. :
> o Yikes!
>
> Anyway, thanks again for sharing your data with us.
>
> Don Hull
> Decatur, Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi Larry
>
> Thanks, it was a long 8 minutes or so.
>
> I should rephrase my statement - yes, I did have time to experiment with
> airspeed. So I should state that my minimum descent rate was obtained on
> that day with that gross weight (approx 1550 lbs) at 87 mph (prop
> stopped).
>
> Any faster airspeed and the sink rate went up and any slower and it went
> up.
>
> I also found the prop would stop rotating at 110 mph. So it was not best
> glide, as you point out, but minimum sink rate. Fortunately, when I punch
> up the nst on my Garmin 195 it showed the two closest airports both 12
> miles away - one slightly to my right was up wind and the other over my
> left rear quarter was down wind. Recalling from my old days of flying an
> Aronica Champ, I knew that downwind would buy me much more distance so
> made
> a 120 deg turn to Winchester and needless to say it turn out OK.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: long power out glide question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> Nice job on getting the plane down safely.
>>
>> I am curious about the statement "best glide was 87 MPH." Is this
>> something
>> you determined before hand? It sounds like you determined it during the
>> event.
>>
>> Remember that best glide is not the same as minimum descent rate.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/05 7:02 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
>>> --> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Hi Charlie,
>>>
>>> Glided my RV-6A 12 miles from 9500 MSL engine-out (prop stopped) to a
>>> safe
>>> touch down at Winchester, TN. Best glide was 87 MPH. Ended up with
>>> excess
>>> altitude (if there is any such thing {:>)) ) and had to do a 360 and a
>>> couple of hard "S" turns to get it down.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Larry Pardue
>> Carlsbad, NM
>>
>> RV-6 N441LP Flying
>> http://n5lp.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
I backed myself in a corner (long story), and now I need two Cherry
Max CR3214-4-4 rivets (plus one spare just in case I screw up putting
one in). These are the 1/8" dia ones, but with the NAS1097 reduced
size heads. I can buy 100 of them for $52 from General Aircraft
Hardware, but I wonder if anyone knows of a place where I could
purchase three of them.
Any pointers?
Thanks,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Did you happen to take before and after pics of the cylinder head
flashing? I'll probably do the same to my engine when down for annual.
Pictures would help me understand exactly what I'm trying to achieve...
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Wheeler North said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
>
> Actually,
>
> in the four cyl lycs, number 3 tappet oil comes right off the very
> beginning
> of the oil feed gallery, which is what feeds the oil to the cyl heads via
> the push rods.
>
> But that said, that gallery that feeds the tappets is very large so I
> would
> expect that they all see the same amount of flow at 50+ psi.
>
> Since clearing my cooling fin flashing on the fins between the spark plugs
> on all cylinders, number 3 is only hottest during full power ops, at all
> other time 1, 2, & 3 all remain close and will vary as to which is
> hottest.
> Number 4 is always colder, probably due to being a carbureted engine which
> is also probably what causes 3 to be hot during full power. The whole idea
> of a pressure air plenum is to keep delta P across each cylinder equal.
>
> RE Piston spray nozzles, these are used on most of the injected engines
> and
> or high compression helo engines where they are extracting slightly more
> horsepower out of each cylinder. In the parallel valve group they use the
> same or similar cylinders so to reject the extra heat they install piston
> spray nozzles off the gallery that carries oil to the tappets and to the
> cam
> spray holes. If I remember correctly these nozzles have a pressure valve
> that opens above 37 psi so that under low RPM/oil flow conditions they
> remain closed ensuring adequate flow to other areas during operating times
> where high heat is not being developed.
>
> They actually don't spray much but rather shoot a stream across the case
> onto the bottom of the opposing piston. But I imagine stream this gets
> fairly blasted as the piston trucking right along.
>
> That said, the cam spray nozzles also rain oil down upon the crank, along
> with all the oil the crank is throwing from the mains and con rod
> bearings.
> So foam and oil vapor is very prevalent regardless of oil sump contents.
>
> I would expect its more of an issue about condensation and defoaming area
> as
> well as the route case gasses flow. If the sump is full there is very
> little
> oil pool surface area to condensate the vapor, nor is there much volume
> for
> the foam to degas. As well the internal case flow for air/bypass gasses is
> going to be out the two back slots, and down the three sump slots with
> lower
> a oil level, but if those lower slots are full of oil/foam, the gasses,
> and
> possibly foam has to go out the back slots, and up into the accessory
> case.
>
> W
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert Cutter" <rcutter@cupower.com>
Kevin,
I went to my local FBO parts counter. I paid about $1 ea for them, but then
I didn't have to buy 100 either.
RVRC
Robert Cutter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01@rogers.com>
Subject: RV-List: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> I backed myself in a corner (long story), and now I need two Cherry
> Max CR3214-4-4 rivets (plus one spare just in case I screw up putting
> one in). These are the 1/8" dia ones, but with the NAS1097 reduced
> size heads. I can buy 100 of them for $52 from General Aircraft
> Hardware, but I wonder if anyone knows of a place where I could
> purchase three of them.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley <n320wt@yahoo.com>
Try Skybolt. The company that makes 1/4 turn camloc fasterners, not the kit company!!!
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
304-562-6800 home
304-395-4932 cell
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
Message 34
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "glaesers" <glaesers@wideopenwest.com>
I haven't done it, and I don't remember where I saw the description, but the
process is simple:
- Epoxy weight (i.e. lead shot) in the LE area of the fairing so that it
balances about the axle point.
Can't help with tire balance...
Dennis Glaeser
RV7A - Wings just arrived today
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>I checked the archives but did not come away with much help. Can anyone
>describe how they have balanced their nose gear and main fairings. My nose
>gear pulses about 1/2" in level flight. Also any advice on how to
>effectively balance the tires?
>
>Thanks
>John
>RIVA 425 hrs
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil Separator |
version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
Jeff, something amiss here, the filter taked about 1/2 qt, should show a
diff on stick, Charlie heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Somewhat related.....
Ive noticed when doing my oil changes that putting 6 qts in brings my
dipstick reading to 8. Even after running the engine and getting it warm
enough to get to the filter, it still reads very near 8. Hmmmm.
There were some c-172's on the field with io360's and I tried their
dipsticks but they were way too long.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Jim Cimino wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>>
>>The rods and crankshaft are pressure fed in a Lycoming Engine and the
>>crankshaft is in the middle of the engine. If you drop the sump, there is
>>no direct access from there to the rods or crankshaft, so I don't
>>understand
>>how keeping the sump full adds to the possibility of the rods coming in
>>contact with the oil?
>>
> If you do drop the pan and look closely at the case parting liine,
> you'll see some oval holes that the oil drains down through to the sump
> after it's done it's job lubricating things.
>
>> I know that can happen in a car engine, but I don't
>>see that having any bearing on an aircraft engine.
>>
> It really doesn't. I believe that if you put all 8 quarts (or whatever
> is 'full' for your engine) in, the level will rise above the level of
> the sump into the crank cavity where it's whipped a little and goes out
> the crankcase vent. I also think that when the level gets down to 6
> qts, the oil level is down in the sump. It would be easy to check by
> comparing the level of the 8 qt mark on the dipstick to the level of the
> dipstick tube. The next time I have the cowl off, I'll check. Y'all
> can do the same and report back.
>
>> I think what causes most oil loss is just simple blow-by.
>>
> I think you're right!
>
>> These engine get a lot of oil to the tops
>>of the cylinders and some is going to get past the guides and seals and
>>into
>>the combustion chamber, the more oil you put up there, the more gets by.
>>
> I don't think this is true. There is some oil pumped to the rocker area
> through the pushrods ..... and that oil really aids in cooling ....
> especially the exhaust valve. Keep an eye on CHTs for #3, as it's
> typically the hottest .... and has the lowest amount of oil flow due to
> it being at the end of the oil gallery.
>
>> By flipping a plane around, you may increase it.
>>
> Nah. Almost all the oil goes out the breather or your inverted oil
> system if you have one. On a tight engine, (read good cylinders and
> rings) the amount burned is negligible compared to what you'll dump
> overboard doing akro ..... unless you're really good and only pull + Gs.
>
>> Lycoming also states that it is safe to fly an IO-360 on as little as
>> two quarts, but the additional oil helps provide cooling.
>>
> True. However, if you fill the oil to the 'full' mark (8 qts), you'll
> lose the first two rapidly out the breather. Bill Gunn has already
> covered WHY it says fill to 8 qts!!!
> Linn
>
>>Jim
>>
>>Jim Cimino
>>N7TL
>>RV-8 S/N 80039
>>150+ Hours
>>http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Separator
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Separator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
>>>><alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I had an interesting conversation with a Lycoming engineer several
>>>>>years
>>>>>ago. Q: why does a full (8 quarts in most 4 cylinder engines, 12 quarts
>>>>>in
>>>>>most 6 cylinder engines) sump either burn or blow out oil? Why mark the
>>>>>dip stick to a quantity that will not remain in the engine? Is there
>>>>>any
>>>>>harm is running less oil in the sump on a routine basis? Answer:
>>>>>regulations !
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>The regulations maybe explain some of it, but I'd still be curious why
>>>>the
>>>>sump level would cause oil to go to the very top of the engine and out
>>>>the
>>>>breather.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I have the Christen system and never have any oil overboard, and I
>>>>fill
>>>>it to 8 qts. I consider those last two quarts as insurance.
>>>>
>>>>Alex Peterson
>>>>RV6A N6AP 651 hours
>>>>Maple Grove, MN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>The answer is that the oil doesn't "go to the very top of the engine and
>>>out
>>>the breather"... What happens is that the higher oil level means the oil
>>>is
>>>that much closer to the crankshaft and rods, which means the
>>>reciprocating
>>>parts are that much more likely to come into contact with the oil in the
>>>pan during any uncoordinated turns, climbs, or unusual attitude
>>>maneuvers.
>>>When that happens, the oil splashes around, and some is turned into
>>>droplets
>>>and goes out the breather.
>>>
>>>By the way, I notice that I get far less oil on the belly if I keep the
>>>greasy side down. My Oshkosh trip this year was Atlanta to Minneapolis
>>>to
>>>Oshkosh to Chicago to Ann Arbor and back to Atlanta. With my wife along,
>>>I
>>>was under a strict edict to fly smooth, and as level as possible. I
>>>don't
>>>have the hours handy, but I'm guessing 12-14 or so for the total trip. I
>>>didn't add any oil and the belly was relatively clean when I got home.
>>>In
>>>the same number of hours of local flying, I'd probably do 25 rolls, a
>>>number
>>>of wing overs, some lazy 8's, and several other positive G maneuvers.
>>>Over
>>>that span, I'd need to add at least a quart of oil and the airplane's
>>>belly
>>>would be a mess...
>>>
>>>Kyle Boatright
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Auto pilot disconect control in stick question |
autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
I am waivering on the value of haveing the servo disconect in the stick, would
also need one for the alt hold disc if I were to do so. One I would have to buy
and install a multi button thingy on the handle,two at my age I suffer from
CRS, and am afraid I will be pushing one of the disconects while trying to transmit,
thand ree I spent the entire afternoon just reinstalling the aileron bellcrank
(pesky spacers). Would apreciate input as to usefulness of this feature,
(I have a trio but info on your brand will work.)
Charlie heathco, Boerne Tx
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Auto pilot disconect control in stick question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
charlie heathco wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" <cheathco@gvtc.com>
>
> I am waivering on the value of haveing the servo disconect in the
> stick, would also need one for the alt hold disc if I were to do so.
> One I would have to buy and install a multi button thingy on the
> handle,two at my age I suffer from CRS, and am afraid I will be
> pushing one of the disconects while trying to transmit, thand ree I
> spent the entire afternoon just reinstalling the aileron bellcrank
> (pesky spacers). Would apreciate input as to usefulness of this
> feature, (I have a trio but info on your brand will work.) Charlie
> heathco, Boerne Tx
I have a servo disconnect switch (which also is used to enter Pilot
Command Steering mode) located on the panel just above the throttle. I
can hit the switch (or hold it for the Steering mode) with my hand on
the throttle. In my opinion the remote switch isn't a high priority,
just one of those things you can add if it is convenient.
Since the AlTrak switch is large, located on the panel in front of me
under the main power switch for the unit, I haven't felt the need to
install a remote disconnect switch.
The setup can be seen on this page:
http://thervjournal.com/panel_photo_8-05.html
Altrak activate and power switch are on left end of panel, and EZ-Pilot
disconnect is the red push-button right above the throttle.
Sam Buchanan
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Cherry CR3214-4-4? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joe Hine <rv4flyer@gmail.com>
Kevin
I have a large box of Cherry Max rivits I acquired a while ago. There
is a variety of sizes, but I have no idea if the size you need is
there. I am away until sunday evening. If you don't have a solution
by then, I can check and see if I can find what you need. If I there
are any there, you can have them.
Joe
On 8/10/05, Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> I backed myself in a corner (long story), and now I need two Cherry
> Max CR3214-4-4 rivets (plus one spare just in case I screw up putting
> one in). These are the 1/8" dia ones, but with the NAS1097 reduced
> size heads. I can buy 100 of them for $52 from General Aircraft
> Hardware, but I wonder if anyone knows of a place where I could
> purchase three of them.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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