---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/15/05: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:13 AM - (Thomas Lukasczyk) 2. 04:16 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! (Jerry Springer) 3. 04:42 AM - Re: Mixture cable too short? (Jack Fromm) 4. 05:53 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! (Gary Zilik) 5. 06:10 AM - (Thomas Lukasczyk) 6. 06:37 AM - (Thomas Lukasczyk) 7. 06:43 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! (linn walters) 8. 07:00 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! (Bob Collins) 9. 07:10 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... (David) 10. 07:10 AM - Re: Turbine Engines for RVs (Kevin Williams) 11. 07:13 AM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! (cecilth@juno.com) 12. 07:59 AM - Re: Turbine Engines for RVs (Marty) 13. 08:07 AM - Re: Turbine Engines for RVs (Scott Bilinski) 14. 08:57 AM - Re: Turbine Engines for RVs (Doug Rozendaal) 15. 09:06 AM - Re: Turbine Engines for RVs (Ed Anderson) 16. 09:17 AM - Canopy - Enough Already (John B. Szantho) 17. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Congrats Walter (Charles Rowbotham) 18. 09:33 AM - Re: Canopy - Enough Already (linn walters) 19. 10:25 AM - Painting Class (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 20. 11:43 AM - Re: Sliding Canopy fitting tip (Ed Holyoke) 21. 11:43 AM - Re: Canopy - Enough Already (Ed Holyoke) 22. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: HS and Wing stands (Rick Leach) 23. 01:04 PM - Re: Sliding Canopy fitting tip ---Eureka! (Marty) 24. 01:08 PM - Re: Canopy-Enough Already (John B. Szantho) 25. 01:25 PM - Re: HS and Wing stands (Larry Rosen) 26. 01:36 PM - Manual Flaps?, RV-7 (Bill Dube) 27. 02:07 PM - Re: Sliding Canopy fitting tip (Ed Holyoke) 28. 02:44 PM - Re: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 (RAS) 29. 02:49 PM - Re: Canopy - Ed Holyoke's Rant (Skylor Piper) 30. 03:16 PM - Re: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 (Bill Dube) 31. 03:38 PM - Mixture cable too short? (George Inman) 32. 03:40 PM - Re: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 (Bob J) 33. 06:02 PM - Re: Ed Holyoke's Rant/QB FOD (Jim Robinette) 34. 06:02 PM - Photo for presentation (Joe Larson) 35. 06:24 PM - Re: Canopy - How many more times? ... (JOHN STARN) 36. 06:29 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Dan Checkoway) 37. 06:33 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Sam Buchanan) 38. 06:59 PM - Re: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 39. 07:08 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Joe Larson) 40. 07:15 PM - Re: Mixture cable too short? (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 41. 07:23 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Alex Peterson) 42. 08:01 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (sportav8r@aol.com) 43. 08:04 PM - Cross-Country Route SF to SEA (Piavis) 44. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Ed Holyoke's Rant/QB FOD (Tim Olson) 45. 09:07 PM - Re: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA (Henry Hochberg) 46. 09:29 PM - EZ-Pilot problem (charlie heathco) 47. 09:36 PM - Re: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA (Dean Van Winkle) 48. 10:49 PM - Re: Aileron pushrod and wing mounting (HCRV6@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:48 AM PST US From: "Thomas Lukasczyk" --> RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" Hi Dean You might want to take a look at what I did. http://www.rv-4.de/Detaillsungen.htm I am sorry it is all in german but there are many good english webpages already out there.... I filed a gap into the head of a stainless-steel-socket-head-bolt. The bent end of the Cowl-pin rests inside the gap and is secured by a small lock-pin. The bolt itself screws into a rivnut that is held by piece of 0.040-2024 epoxied to the inside of the cowl. I do only have 65 hours on my RV-4 but the design has worked great so far. Good luck finishing your project soon do not archieve Thomas, RV-4 D-EXTL -- 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse fr Mail, Message, More +++ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:30 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer JTAnon@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: JTAnon@aol.com > >Wow Jerry. > >Give me a break. I've seen your posts before, some informative, some >helpful, some opinionated, some potentially offensive..... > > > What is so funny it was not your commentsa that I was refering to it was Nic. He wants to have Van increase the price of the kits so he does not have to do any work figuring out how to build an airplane Once again this is a educational process. What is to learn if all we do is snap together an airplane. >Guess I should have known better and should have read all the responses >before I fired off a reply to the first post I read. (And probably before Miller >Time which I am well into at this point after yet another day of wrestling with >this frame in 97 degree heat.) > > > Simple solution, build a tip up :-) >I was just so relieved to find at least one other builder who agrees with me >that I needed to continue to vent. > >Please don't characterize my post as whining. If some want to do the slow >build; Hell, if some want to smelt their own aluminum, God bless. That's not >me. > >No, I don't want Vans to come build the plane for me. > >In my area of expertise I did great in my life. But I wouldn't expect that >somebody new to my field would understand all the nuance of what I know after a >lifetime in the field. In fact, in my area (teacher) my main task is to show >the new student the joy of what I love, and help them to gain skills. To a >really great teacher challenge is part of the process, frustration never is. > > > I admire your occupation as a teacher that is an area that takes a special type of person and I am sure an area that I would not do well in, although I never have any of my flight students complain. :-) Jerry do not archive PS One more pet peeve is people that do not use "do not archive" when it should be used. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:09 AM PST US From: "Jack Fromm" Subject: RV-List: RE: Mixture cable too short? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Fromm" Steve, I posted on this subject about a year and a half ago but I think it might have been to the old Yahoo RV-8 list and I can't find it now. Anyway, you did mention that you are talking about the deluxe quadrant and Van's cable. If you are also talking about the Precision MA4-5 carb, then the problem is with both the cable and the quadrant. On my quadrant, the hole in the mixture lever was not drilled as high up on the lever as the throttle. You need to drill another hole in the lever at least as high as, and preferably a little higher than the one in the throttle lever. The cable is an issue too. The full stroke of the cable is just a little over 2", if you're lucky, after taking out the backlash. That's barely enough to move the mixture arm stop to stop. So you've got to make sure you are getting every bit of that travel out of the cable by adjusting things at the quadrant. That means drilling that hole higher, moving the cable as far forward in the anchor bracket as possible, and, in my case, even notching the lever a little---whatever it takes to make sure that you are hitting full travel on the cable and not having the lever stopped by the slots in the top plate of the quadrant. Hope that helps. Jack Fromm RV-8 N138JF Flying - 95 hours Time: 08:59:08 AM PST US From: "Steve Struyk" Subject: RV-List: Mixture cable too short? --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" I started the engine yesterday for the first time. Big event, and it went pretty well. I knew before the start that my mixture arm was not quite making it to the idle cutoff stop but that was a compromise I had to make in order to reach the full rich stop. I would say the idle stop was short by about 1/8 inch, just enough to cause the engine to continue to run with the mixture lever off. Prior to the start, and months ago while rigging the control cables I spent hours trying to adjust the cable/rod ends to achieve full travel to both stops but in the end had to compromise. It appears that the cable, or maybe the quadrant, does not have enough travel to accomplish both. I've been in the archives and have seen similar problems but no clues as to the fix. My thoughts are to perhaps move the attach point up on the mixture lever (Van's deluxe quadrant, and Cable too), thus providing more travel for any given lever movement and hopefully attain the little extra needed to hit both stops. I realize this fix will only work if the quadrant is the problem. But what if it's the cable that does not have the necessary travel? Your thoughts, comments, and suggestions please. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO 90% done....90% to go! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:13 AM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik I have to stand with Jerry on this one. I have built both slow and quick build kits and have enjoyed every minute spent building. There are builders, and there are flyers and then there are those that enjoy building and flying. I guess I am the latter. Gary > Terry Watson wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > > > >C'mon Jerry, take the high road for once in your life. > > > >I am in the middle of building my second filtered air box (F.A.B.). The > >instructions say you have to cut and splice the fiberglass part to take some > >of the bend out of it. I look at that and wonder why the subcontract > >supplier didn't correct his mold in the several years between when my first > >one was built and the second one I just received a week or so ago. I > >understand that every custom built kit airplane is going to be a little > >different, but does this fiberglass F.A.B. fit ANY of them? I don't know. > > > >Then I look at the canopy skirt and wonder why such a nicely molded part > >doesn't even come close to matching the contour of the fuselage. I wonder if > >there is a good reason for it that I don't understand or maybe I did > >something wrong, or if it doesn't fit because nobody has gotten around to > >correcting it in the last 7 years. > > > >And then there is this new trap door air filter bypass, which is the reason > >I am building a new filtered air box. I literally finished the first one the > >day the problems with the bypass door staying open were documented here on > >this list. And if I call Van's and ask them about it, I'll bet you a dollar > >the answer I get is some variation of "no one else has any problem with it." > > > >Unlike Nic, I think I am more of a builder than a flyer so I don't mind as > >much as he does that it takes a long time. But I can understand his > >frustration. > > > >I LIKE Van's as a company and for the kits they produce. I am constantly > >reminded of what a lucky but good decision it was for me to go with one of > >their kits when I made my decision seven years ago, but that doesn't mean > >they couldn't do some things better, and it doesn't mean that anyone who > >complains here on the list deserves to get a shovel of crap from you. > > > >Be nice. > > > >Terry > > > > > > > > > You answered your own question, each one is built different. I guess I > can express my opinion > same as you or Nic can. That is all I am/was doing is expressing my > opinion about whinners. > Did you call Van's and ask them about the problem with the bypass trap > door or is that just your > opinion that they have not heard of the problem.? Is that a "shovel of > crap" I am getting from you? :-) > > Jerry > do not archive > > > -- Gary Zilik, Sr. Geophysicist zilik@excelgeo.com Excel Geophysical Services, Inc. phone: 303.694.9629 5690 DTC Blvd, Suite 330W fax: 303.771.1641 Greenwood Village, CO 80411 http://www.excelgeo.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:36 AM PST US From: "Thomas Lukasczyk" --> RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" Hi Dean You might want to take a look at what I did. http://www.rv-4.de/Detaillsungen.htm I am sorry it is all in german but there are many good english webpages already out there.... I filed a gap into the head of a stainless-steel-socket-head-bolt. The bent end of the Cowl-pin rests inside the gap and is secured by a small lock-pin. The bolt itself screws into a rivnut that is held by piece of 0.040-2024 epoxied to the inside of the cowl. I do only have 65 hours on my RV-4 but the design has worked great so far. Good luck finishing your project soon do not archieve Thomas, RV-4 D-EXTL -- 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse fr Mail, Message, More +++ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:45 AM PST US From: "Thomas Lukasczyk" --> RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" > --- Ursprngliche Nachricht --- > Von: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > An: > Betreff: RV-List: Cowl Pins (Glenn Gordon) > Datum: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:43:25 -0400 > > --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > > > Glenn Gordon you still on this list? I ran across an old post from you. > In > that post you mention you "came up with a pretty slick way of securing the > horizontal cowl pins". You didn't have any description but said to email > you directly and you would send pics. I would really like to see those > pics. Could you please send to me at this email address? Thanks. > If anyone else has good ideas for this let me know. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Finally getting to the end!! > > > > > > Hi Dean You might want to take a look at what I did. http://www.rv-4.de/gallerie/rv4_img/tn_P6061586.jpg I am sorry it is all in german but there are many good english webpages already out there.... I filed a gap into the head of a stainless-steel-socket-head-bolt. The bent end of the Cowl-pin rests inside the gap and is secured by a small lock-pin. The bolt itself screws into a rivnut that is held by piece of 0.040-2024 epoxied to the inside of the cowl. I do only have 65 hours on my RV-4 but the design has worked great so far. Good luck finishing your project soon do not archieve Thomas, RV-4 D-EXTL -- Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:58 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters It's been a long dry spell from when I built my Pitts (tube and fabric and wood) and I start on my -10. There was a BD-5 in there somewhere, never finished, of course. But read on for MY comments. JTAnon@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: JTAnon@aol.com > >OK, I started this whole thread as a joke, and trying to relieve my >frustration, but really .... > >... Now I'm on a rant! > Confession is good for the soul. Please remember that in this one, you're not alone. Help is available although it may be remote and not immediate. >The reason I picked Vans was because it is the best kit out there in so, so >many ways. > >Where else (certified or not) can you get a plane that will fly like this at >this cost? Where else can you find such a clear builders manual aided by >readily available tech support? (Thank you Tom Green et al for your patience with >an idiot like me.) BUT!!!... > Probably the most common reasons for all builders. >Right from the outset I realized that I was not one of these guys that builds >the first one then suffers from "builders withdrawal" and immediately starts >building another. I DO NOT enjoy the building process. It's a means to an >end for me. I will never do this again. I just want to fly the thing, and I >want it to be right when I do, > I hate to say this, but my experience is that a lot of those that DO NOT enjoy (or at least accept) the building process fail to finish. This is work. If you thought you were busy before you started this project, you're surely in over your head (work level wise) now. A lot of things are going to slip ..... you don't mow the yard as often, or wash the car, or socialize ..... whatever you did after working all week ..... just doesn't get the attention they used to. >There is a certain satisfaction from following the (usually) clear >directions, taking the time to understand the (usually) accurate drawings (the biggest >aggregate time in my builder's log will be the looking at the drawings, head >scratching process. OK, my problem, my bad.), lining up the holes, being >precise, riveting the thing and finally saying, "Wow! I built a rudder, and it's a >real quality job, thank you, thank you Vans for your design and the technical >support you provide to newbies like me." Tedium and patience is part of the >process to get it right, and you start to think, "OK, I can do this, I can >build an airframe if I just follow directions." > This is true, 99% of the time. >But then you run into things like this (the canopy) and all good will goes >out the window. Frustration doesn't need to be a part of the process if it can >be avoided. > Since your particular project has been lost in the shuffle, I don't know anymore which plane you're building, (just got to the end and found it's an RV-7) but it doesn't matter. The kits aren't perfect, and will never be. You're using this list to vent a little (no flame here, just an observation) and, hopefully, to get some guidance from those that have been there. I haven't got the 'van's experience' yet, but if you step back and look at the project, if the canopy is the only bump in the road, you're lucky. You need to remember that the purpose of the Experimental class is "for educational purposes" ..... and for some, the learning process is steeper than others. I truly believe that airplanes can be built by total morons. And I've seen some of their work. I wouldn't get in some homebuilts ..... but the builder did, and they fly. I do notice that builders with 'junk' projects never participated in the local EAA chapter, never sought advice, and 'did it their way'. Too bad, because there was a wealth of knowledge out there that may have helped. >I'm no engineer, but I'm reasonably intelligent, so can somebody tell me why >Vans couldn't put the welded canopy frame (and roll bar) in some kind of >factory jig to make it fit the rest of the airframe? I can visualize such an >apparatus but I have neither the skill, means, nor would it be practical for me to >build such a jig for a "one time" application. If you can match drill skins >and ribs surely you can match drill this section too. Just tell me what it >costs and I'll pay it. > Because of the 51% rule mostly, I would guess, and Van's points to the fact that you're supposed to learn to weld ...... I dunno. The real reason may be entirely different. I read a lot of emails about the canopies and problems/questions folks have. And I agree that maybe it should be easier and without angst. However, Van's seems to have trouble going back to 'existing' kits to fix drawings, fit parts better, improve parts etc. because they're working on getting their latest and greatest out the door. This isn't unlike any electronics production environment that I've been involved in. It's the nature of a a fast-moving company. >Right in Section 9 (Fitting the Canopy) page 1 of the manual it says this can >be "... one of the most disappointing, gumption-robbing experiences a >homebuilder can have." Got that right! > Well, that blows up my opinion. They knew, but for whatever reason can't or won't make it easier. That's the way it is. >Just can't wait until I get to (Vans words) "The black art" of fiberglass. >Why is it that several guys are making a buck with fairings better than what >Vans supplies? > Again, I don't know specifics here, but there's a lot of costs associated with making/modifying molds ..... which adds costs and consume time (Van's has to verify that the modification really does work) and ther's always more info that we don't have ..... that drove the original part. > Better yet, what a joy will wiring this sucker be? Why can't >Vans recommend a typical instrument panel and supply the components for the >same instead of me putting out $5K for someone to do this part? > This one is easy. There's far too many variables in a 'typical' panel for one wiring harness to fit. Even when a builder is faces with a typical harness, the first thing he does is make changes .... different radio ...... different ..... well, you name it. Now you've got a few (or a lot) of wires that don't go anywhere, and just add weight. And, depending on how you rout the wires, some may end up too short. Just think how that would frustrate you!!! >A while back in the RV ator Van himself questioned why he had sold xx,xxx >thousand empenage kits when there were only x,xxx thousand flying. He said, >"What happened to the other x,xxx thousand?" You want my answer to date? The >canopy! No skill one has acquired thus far in the process prepares you for this >mess. Is it possible to leave the damn thing off and just fly with goggles? > Hmm, now there's a thought. Also, someone pointed out that the canopies are blown, not molded, for clarity purposes, and that not all canopy plastics are created equal. >Hello Vans! Fix it! Let me do my 51% somewhere else! There must >be other builders like me! > You mean frustrated builders??? Yeah, they all are, at some point or other. I've been there, done that, and feel a special kinship to everybody that takes on the task of building an experimental airplane. We're a special breed of cat, and I'm proud to be a member of that group. >Please don't flame me. It would just add to my frustration at this point. > No flames John, just a little perspective. I'm sorry that you've (and others) have read all through my answer only to find that there isn't any help, no insight, no construction pearls of wisdon ..... I don't have answers to fix your canopy. What I hoped to do was offer you a step back and maybe give you some time to reflect on your special project with it's own special problems. I've never been prouder of myself or my project when it flew the first time. Funny, I know that when I was building my Pitts I had some really tough times ..... but now I can't remember any of them. Maybe that's just my failing memory!!!. But I still own that Pitts after 24 years, and it's still my favorite toy. I hope your experience goes along like mine. I know that pounding X,XXX,XXX rivets will get old real quick, but it's just what has to be done. But right now, I'm looking forward to smacking the first one ..... and the last one! >John McD (RV7A - @# >%$ Canopy - ARRGGHAAA) > >Don't care if you archive or not, but please, somebody at Vans read this!!! > I'll add 'do not archive' since there isn't anything here but emotion .... no facts ...... and I have a thought. Why not call Van's nd get a straight answer (if it's possible) WHY the canopy is such a pain??? Better than eliciting comments from folks like myself that really don't have the answers. >Rant over. Tomorrow is another day. Maybe the elves will finish the canopy >while I sleep. > Oh well, by now you know the elves are on vacation. But you might impose on another RV-7A builder nearby for help. I hope there is one!!! BTW, I hope you're still around when I get frustrates with the -10. I'll need some mental help too!!! Linn > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:12 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" //I have to stand with Jerry on this one. I have built both slow and quick build kits and have enjoyed every minute spent building. There are builders, and there are flyers and then there are those that enjoy building and flying. I guess I am the latter. C'mon guys. Let's step back from the cliff here. There are MANY flavors of MANY people. There's aren't just only an I ENJOY everything about building and I ENJOY nothing about building people. So the only camp that's really out there, is you. And unless you paid twice as much for the kit everyone else is building, ain't nobody better than the other... Just different. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:37 AM PST US From: "David" Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... --> RV-List message posted by: "David" It is important to remember that everything is relative. How many of you, who believe nothing should be improved, built a quick build instead of a slow build? How many built a slow build instead of using plans only? Be honest... How many of you would be willing to forego the improvements that have already been made over the years by Van's? There is always room for improvement. David Kirby RV-6AQB Griffin, Ga. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:48 AM PST US From: "Kevin Williams" Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" Looks very interesting. High HP low Weight. A bit higher fuel burn, but cheaper fuel. . . Not sure on the actual cost of the engine, though they claim the price is comparable to a piston engine. . . http://www.innodyn.com/index.html ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... I agree !! From: cecilth@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com Keep in mind Van can only do 49% of the job. FAA Rules. Cecil PS I understand you feel you are doing 85% Do not archive On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 22:26:50 +0100 0.37 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark "Nic" writes: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Nic" > > Why should anyone have to battle like this to make a simple > component of the > Vans kit fit properly ?? > > My quick build 8, has been anything but quick build, with fairings > to make > up, the canopy to cut and scribe, baggage door to bend, rollbar to > mangle, > undercarriage to make fit ... the list is endless, and much of it is > a > complete waste of time. > > I can only assume that Vans customers put up with this based on the > fact > that compared with the RV4 and the slow build kits we are much > better > placed. The reality is that like many builders, I am a flyer and > want to get > in the air and fly - fiddling with canopies and fairings and the > horrendous > cowls is dead time in anybody's life. > > We all know how John McD' feels. At the moment there seems to be an > "Emperor's new clothes" syndrome surrounding our kits, with very > little > dissent. Wake up Vans please and make life easier for your > customers - and > if needs be charge more for a better and more complete product. > > Nic > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:15 AM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" There are two things to keep in mind when considering this company. 1. Caveat Emptor, and 2. Too good to be true. I was marginally interested when I first heard of them, however I've read some things that are making me look in other directions for powerplant choices. Read this thread on Doug Reeves site, some of the posts will open your eyes. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=1335 Keep in mind that I have not independently confirmed any of this, but I have read similar tales in more than one place. For Jet-a burning alternatives, I think the Deltahawk compression combustion engine looks promising. Marty in Indiana RV-8A Preview plans in Hand >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Williams >Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:10 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" > > >Looks very interesting. High HP low Weight. A bit higher fuel burn, >but >cheaper fuel. . . Not sure on the actual cost of the engine, though >they >claim the price is comparable to a piston engine. . . > >http://www.innodyn.com/index.html > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:12 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski To make a long story short, so far it is vaporware, and they have not published any real numbers. The RV-4 test bed is a dog. At 08:10 AM 8/15/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" > >Looks very interesting. High HP low Weight. A bit higher fuel burn, but >cheaper fuel. . . Not sure on the actual cost of the engine, though they >claim the price is comparable to a piston engine. . . > >http://www.innodyn.com/index.html > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:19 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" What follows is my opinion based on speaking to these guys at OSH and what I have read, and read between the lines in trade rags. I long for a time when I can afford to buy and feed an airplane where all the parts are turning continuiously in one direction. It is a great concept. This engine is really cool but they have some problems. #1 If the fuel economy they claim is correct, then Pratt & Whitney, GE, Williams, and everyother manufacturer would pay these guys MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars for the technology. #2 it appears from what I have read that the engine operates in an EXTREMLY narrow rpm range and the pilot controls prop pitch and the computer controls the power. This sounds simple enough but based on what I have read, the RV-4 is pretty challenging to fly with this setup. If you moved the prop control too quickly you could either cook or kill the engine in a heartbeat. Again, reading between the lines, it sounded to me like a go-around would either be hair-raising or impossible. #3 They have no means to measure torque output to the propellor. This is critical. There is no other way to determine the health of a turbine engine without a torque meter. They seemed totally unconcerned about it. It would compare roughly to flying a C/S airplane without a Manifold pressure gauge. #4 I questioned them about fuel flow on a dyno and they evaded my question. Anyone who can build a turbine engine can figure out a simple dyno. A generator or a water pump for a load, a bathroom scale, and an RPM gauge and you have a dyno. There is no reason why they cannot determine and publish some dyno info. My guess is that they have that info and choose not to share it. If they don't have it, that is even scarier, what other critical info are they ignoring? I wish them all the luck in the world and hope they are successful, but it looks to me like they are a LONG way from being ready to sell engines that fly. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:20 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I would be very cautious. Their quote of 7 gph/100HP just too wild for me to believe - especially for a turbine engine. 7gph on a VERY good piston automobile engine could produce power on the order of 90HP. Small turbines have thus far not been able to approach that figure. Ed A eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Williams" Subject: Re: RV-List: Turbine Engines for RVs > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" > > Looks very interesting. High HP low Weight. A bit higher fuel burn, but > cheaper fuel. . . Not sure on the actual cost of the engine, though they > claim the price is comparable to a piston engine. . . > > http://www.innodyn.com/index.html > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:41 AM PST US From: "John B. Szantho" Subject: RV-List: Canopy - Enough Already --> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" John McD, I agree with you 100%. The canopy is like trying to fit Jell-O over spaghetti, it can be done, but very frustrating. What I cannot understand is why we can't ask for improvement from the manufacturer of our kits without being criticized and berated. I thought that's how we improve everything we deal with in our everyday existence. Maybe even Van's needs some help from the pool of thousands of builders. On my part I came to the conclusion that with the canopy I will have to compromise with my perfectionist nature and do the best I can (one can always use shims in a few places). John RV9-A Canopy ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:13 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Congrats Walter --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Walter, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Walter Tondu >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com, >RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RV-List: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Congrats Walter >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:46:48 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu > >On 08/13 10:27, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > Just wanted to extend a big congratulations to Walter Tondu, who flew >his > > RV-7A for the first time today at Chino, CA. Nicely done!!! > > > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:28 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - Enough Already --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters John B. Szantho wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" > >John McD, I agree with you 100%. The canopy is like trying to fit Jell-O >over spaghetti, it can be done, but very frustrating. What I cannot >understand is why we can't ask for improvement from the manufacturer of our >kits without being criticized and berated. > Nobody did ..... to my knowledge. They voiced their frustration to the list, which has no more pull than anyone else. I guess you could use the term berated, but what I read was opinions expressed by others from the list. > I thought that's how we improve everything we deal with in our everyday existence. Maybe even Van's needs some help from the pool of thousands of builders. > Well, the complaints are misplaced. The list can't do anything. However, I (read ME, ME, ME) usually don't complain unless I can offer some constructive criticism (better way, lower cost etc.) towards the solution. > On my part I came to the >conclusion that with the canopy I will have to compromise with my perfectionist nature and do the best I can (one can always use shims in a few places). > And that's one way to get around the problem. Maybe the solution is for Vans to supply shim material??? If it's true, and the canopy is blown rather than molded, (and I don't know how they do that!) and the shape isn't totally fixed ..... then just how, other than shims, could the problem be aleviated??? I don't have a clue either. I just like responding with my perspective and my opinions ..... and apologize in advance because I can't offer real help. Linn do not achive > >John > >RV9-A Canopy > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:52 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: RV-List: Painting Class refid=0001.0A090202.4300CD4D.0074-A-, ip=209.107.238.85, so=2005-07-14 09:05:58, dmn=2005-05-20 17:56:59 --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Do not archive This could be an informative class for those who want to paint their plane and don't know where to start.... http://www.devilbiss.com/pdf/training/training_2005.pdf I am looking into buying a paint gun. It is going to be a Devilbiss GFG 670 ot JGA 670. Does anyone on the list have experience with these guns that use "plus" technology? Which do you like best, the gravity or the suction version? Please reply direct (off list) with your ideas.. I presently use MBC guns. I guess it is time I come into the 21st century on paint guns.. Phil in Illinois ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:07 AM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sliding Canopy fitting tip --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Having vented in another post, here's something that may actually help someone. The way I finally got the front bow of the slider frame to match up to the roll bar was this: I took a piece of 1/8" luaun plywood and laid it across the side rails behind the roll bar and scribed the shape of the roll bar onto it with a pencil. I tacked the ply to my workbench and set the slider frame onto it. I could then see exactly which parts of the front tube needed to be tweaked in which direction and by how much. Every time you bend one part, something else is affected, but I could see what was happening with each incremental bend and make the correct adjustments without fitting it to the airplane time after time. I did it all on the bench and when it looked good on the template, it looked good on the plane. Remember to make the bottom part where the rollers fit a little narrow because the canopy plastic will spring it out and make the rollers drag in the tracks if you don't. Happy canopying, Ed Holyoke ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:07 AM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy - Enough Already --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" I feel for everyone of us who has suffered through the canopy. It is (as has been said) the hardest part of any homebuilt project. It tests your building skills and innovation - sometimes to the breaking point. A good scream every now and then helps one to go on. I did my sliding canopy a little while back and was just as frustrated as a person could be. It got to where I couldn't even look at it and did other stuff for a year. Mine is the old round tube style going on a quickbuild. You would think that the quickbuild would be a known quantity and that a weldment could be made in a jig to fit it reasonably well, but no. In initial fittings, with the rear pins actually resting on the longeron decks (I know that's not the correct name for them, but the plans are not in front of me), the rear curve of the frame was well above the fuselage skin. The side rails of the canopy frame angled downwards to the rear. It was all wrong. I tried everything I could think of, but couldn't get it anywhere near right. Van's suggested cutting the frame. It wasn't until I committed to cutting the downtubes at the rear that I was able to get it anywhere close. I removed about 1 1/4" from one side and about 7/8" from the other. After the cuts were made, I was able to massage it into place and got a pretty good fit. It still caused a lot of frustration before it was over. The tandem canopies are blown bubbles. The side by side are stretched over forms. Mine is not symmetrical. Still, fitting the glass was not the hardest part once the frame fit the airplane. The rear skirts were a pain, but not near as bad as it could have been. If I hadn't cut the frame, it wouldn't have been possible. Let it be known that I still believe that the Vans aircraft kits are by far the best bang for the buck and that there's no better flying or performing airplane available near the same price point. I submit, however, that one of Van's selling points has always been that the welding and the tougher alum bending is done for you so you don't have to. One could reasonably expect that the weldments would fit without extreme measures. One could also expect that a jig-built quickbuild would be straight, but that's another rant for another day. Pax, Ed Holyoke Do not archive John B. Szantho wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" > >John McD, I agree with you 100%. The canopy is like trying to fit Jell-O >over spaghetti, it can be done, but very frustrating. What I cannot >understand is why we can't ask for improvement from the manufacturer of our >kits without being criticized and berated. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:44 AM PST US From: Rick Leach Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: HS and Wing stands --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Leach thanks Tim> From: Tim Olson >Date: Sun Aug 14 20:40:53 CDT 2005 >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: HS and Wing stands >--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson > >Hi Rick, > >This might not be what you want, since it doesn't take care of >the HS, but it might work well for the wings for you: > >http://www.myrv10.com/tips/wingtips.html > >See the bottom tip from Larry Rosen. > >Also, your question might be best addressed on the RV10-List >instead of the generic RV-List... I see you sent this to >owner-rv10-list-server, but it didn't make it to the >RV10-List proper. Might want to verifiy your address book. >Tim > >Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >Current project: Doors/Windows >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Richard Leach wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" >> >> Does anyone have plans or dimensions of stands for holding the >> horizontal stab and the wings for the -10? >> >> Rick Leach >> 40397 >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:49 PM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sliding Canopy fitting tip ---Eureka! --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" I knew if I kept shoveling through the rest of this thread that I would find a gem! Thanks Ed! Marty in Indiana RV-8A Preview plans in Hand Do not archive >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke >Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 1:42 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Sliding Canopy fitting tip > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > >Having vented in another post, here's something that may actually >help >someone. > >The way I finally got the front bow of the slider frame to match up >to >the roll bar was this: > >I took a piece of 1/8" luaun plywood and laid it across the side >rails >behind the roll bar and scribed the shape of the roll bar onto it >with a >pencil. I tacked the ply to my workbench and set the slider frame >onto >it. I could then see exactly which parts of the front tube needed to >be >tweaked in which direction and by how much. Every time you bend one >part, something else is affected, but I could see what was happening >with each incremental bend and make the correct adjustments without >fitting it to the airplane time after time. I did it all on the bench >and when it looked good on the template, it looked good on the plane. > >Remember to make the bottom part where the rollers fit a little >narrow >because the canopy plastic will spring it out and make the rollers >drag >in the tracks if you don't. > >Happy canopying, > >Ed Holyoke > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:59 PM PST US From: "John B. Szantho" Subject: RV-List: Re: Canopy-Enough Already --> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Szantho" Linn, May be I should not have use the word berated, but comments like: "I guess you must be flush with money to ask Van to charge more for his kit, actually that statement really pisses me off, once again if you can't build it go buy something else. If you had told anyone you were a flyer and not a builder then the advice would have been GO BUY SOMETHING..." from Jerry on 8/13/05 is not very helpful and I certainly not criticizing anyone just making a comment and I hope I am not misinterpreting Jerry. I wish VAN's would be more involved in these discussions. I heard they were, but there were too many problems and they quit. I don't know what the problems were. Perhaps others on the list do. I am a first time builder, love the process and like VAN's products (with the exception of the canopy, but I almost got it figured out). I know they will listen and improve the canopy product also (too late for me). But now I better get back to my canopy fitting. Sorry if I made anyone angry with my "berated" comment. I don't know what I would do without all the great suggestions on this list. I wish I was smart enough to help more. John RV9-A Canopy N3294C ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:49 PM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV-List: HS and Wing stands --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Link to my plans are here http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/tips.html Contact me if you have any questions LarryRosen@comcast.net RV10 #356 Wings Rick Leach wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Leach > >thanks Tim> > >From: Tim Olson > > >>Date: Sun Aug 14 20:40:53 CDT 2005 >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: HS and Wing stands >> >> > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson >> >>Hi Rick, >> >>This might not be what you want, since it doesn't take care of >>the HS, but it might work well for the wings for you: >> >>http://www.myrv10.com/tips/wingtips.html >> >>See the bottom tip from Larry Rosen. >> >>Also, your question might be best addressed on the RV10-List >>instead of the generic RV-List... I see you sent this to >>owner-rv10-list-server, but it didn't make it to the >>RV10-List proper. Might want to verifiy your address book. >>Tim >> >>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >>Current project: Doors/Windows >>DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >>Richard Leach wrote: >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" >>> >>>Does anyone have plans or dimensions of stands for holding the >>>horizontal stab and the wings for the -10? >>> >>>Rick Leach >>>40397 >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:28 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube Has anyone attempted to put in manual flaps in their RV-7? How difficult is it to rig up the flaps for manual operation? I prefer manual flaps for several reasons. The stock electric motor has a poor track record. I like to be able to "feel" the force on the flaps. You automatically know how far the flaps are extended. Bill Dube' (wings) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:56 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Sliding Canopy fitting tip --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" When I think about it, this will give you a reverse image. I probably cut it with a jigsaw before I put it on the bench. It's been a while. Sorry bout that. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Subject: RE: RV-List: Sliding Canopy fitting tip --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Having vented in another post, here's something that may actually help someone. The way I finally got the front bow of the slider frame to match up to the roll bar was this: I took a piece of 1/8" luaun plywood and laid it across the side rails behind the roll bar and scribed the shape of the roll bar onto it with a pencil. I tacked the ply to my workbench and set the slider frame onto it. I could then see exactly which parts of the front tube needed to be tweaked in which direction and by how much. Every time you bend one part, something else is affected, but I could see what was happening with each incremental bend and make the correct adjustments without fitting it to the airplane time after time. I did it all on the bench and when it looked good on the template, it looked good on the plane. Remember to make the bottom part where the rollers fit a little narrow because the canopy plastic will spring it out and make the rollers drag in the tracks if you don't. Happy canopying, Ed Holyoke ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:02 PM PST US From: "RAS" Subject: Re: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" Bill, you would just as well build it without flaps. there not strictly needed unless you fly into very short strips. The 100MPH limit is one to watch as the airplane takes a while to slow down, or alternatively accelerates that fast that it goes straight through the 100MPH. Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dube" Subject: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > Has anyone attempted to put in manual flaps in their RV-7? How > difficult is it to rig up the flaps for manual operation? > > I prefer manual flaps for several reasons. The stock electric > motor has a poor track record. I like to be able to "feel" the force on > the > flaps. You automatically know how far the flaps are extended. > > Bill Dube' (wings) > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:09 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy - Ed Holyoke's Rant --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper --- Ed Holyoke wrote: >>One could also expect that a > jig-built quickbuild > would be straight... Isn't that the truth! Skylor RV-8 QB, Under Construction Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:54 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube I do intend to fly into short strips. Also, the flaps act as speed brakes to help slow the airplane down, allowing a steeper approach. Of course, the flaps reduce the stall speed too. Bill Dube' At 03:42 PM 8/15/2005, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" > >Bill, > > you would just as well build it without flaps. there not strictly needed >unless you fly into very short strips. The 100MPH limit is one to watch as >the airplane takes a while to slow down, or alternatively accelerates that >fast that it goes straight through the 100MPH. > >Marcel >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Dube" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > > > Has anyone attempted to put in manual flaps in their RV-7? How > > difficult is it to rig up the flaps for manual operation? > > > > I prefer manual flaps for several reasons. The stock electric > > motor has a poor track record. I like to be able to "feel" the force on > > the > > flaps. You automatically know how far the flaps are extended. > > > > Bill Dube' (wings) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:23 PM PST US From: "George Inman" Subject: RV-List: Mixture cable too short? --> RV-List message posted by: "George Inman" I started the engine yesterday for the first time. Big event, and it went pretty well. I knew before the start that my mixture arm was not quite making it to the idle cutoff stop but that was a compromise I had to make in order to reach the full rich stop. I would say the idle stop was short by about 1/8 inch, just enough to cause the engine to continue to run with the mixture lever off. Prior to the start, and months ago while rigging the control cables I spent hours trying to adjust the cable/rod ends to achieve full travel to both stops but in the end had to compromise. It appears that the cable, or maybe the quadrant, does not have enough travel to accomplish both. I've been in the archives and have seen similar problems but no clues as to the fix. My thoughts are to perhaps move the attach point up on the mixture lever (Van's deluxe quadrant, and Cable too), thus providing more travel for any given lever movement and hopefully attain the little extra needed to hit both stops. I realize this fix will only work if the quadrant is the problem. But what if it's the cable that does not have the necessary travel? Your thoughts, comments, and suggestions please. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S Steve I have the same problem with my RV-8 with bendix fuel inj. In my case it is the cables I got from Van's.they have only 2" throw.Not enough for the throttle and just barely enough for the mixture The quadrant has a bit more than 2" throw I think I might move the attach point up a bit on the throttle arm. George Inman ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:58 PM PST US From: Bob J Subject: Re: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: Bob J Bill, I don't see why the manual flap weldment from the -6 couldn't be adapted. The floor ribs on the -7 are different than the 6, so the only thing that will likely be affected is the notched plate that the flap handle engages with. The flap handle would sit a little higher off the floor. I don't think this would take much work to accomplish. I have manual flaps in my -6 and love them, as you can control the flaps instantly. I have many times conspired on how to put manual flaps in my F1 which would be a bit more challenging to do since the flap arm behind the pax seat like the RV-8. If you have access to a tig welder you could fabricate your own flap arm. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 8/15/05, Bill Dube wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > Has anyone attempted to put in manual flaps in their RV-7? How > difficult is it to rig up the flaps for manual operation? > > I prefer manual flaps for several reasons. The stock electric > motor has a poor track record. I like to be able to "feel" the force on > the > flaps. You automatically know how far the flaps are extended. > > Bill Dube' (wings) > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:48 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Ed Holyoke's Rant/QB FOD From: "Jim Robinette" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Robinette" You would also expect a QB to be free from FOD! I bought my QB fuse and wings direct from Van's. Put the fuse on Jeff Bordeleon's rotisserie only find all kinds of items such as rusted clecos, pop rivets, regular rivets and some scrap aluminum to fall out. Not that significant, until there was more clanking beneath the floorboards that couldn't be stopped. Now I have to either deal with FOD under the seats or drill out the floorboards to remove it. Most people wouldn't find this FOD unless they flipped their QB fuse over. Seems there needs to be a little better quality control in the PI! Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skylor Piper Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy - Ed Holyoke's Rant --- Ed Holyoke wrote: >>One could also expect that a > jig-built quickbuild > would be straight... Isn't that the truth! Skylor RV-8 QB, Under Construction Do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:48 PM PST US From: Joe Larson Subject: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson On Wednesday, I'm giving a presentation titled, "Homebuilt Aviation: Cunning Plan or Proof of Insanity?" I am applying the final touches and am hoping for a few more photos. One photo I would like is an RV obviously engaged in some demonstration of "fun" such as aerobatics. I'm trying to show in a photo that an RV is more fun to fly than a Cessna, and the audience is NOT composed of pilots. If anyone has any photos I could use for this, please let me know. -Joe ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Good thought Dave..... IF Van's had perfected the perfect airplane & spent all his time, effort, money & profits getting everything perfect and snap together assembly without ANY problems........ We'd all ONLY be flying the latest version of the RV-3. I remember when GM reported that $7.00 more for each Corvette would have made it safer by increasing the flame resistant capabilities of the resin. Did they do it........NO....but they didn't increase the power from a max of 375 HP to 450 HP in four years (1963 to 1967). I voted for the HP. KABONG HRII 561FS 8*) Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy - How many more times? ... > --> RV-List message posted by: "David" > > It is important to remember that everything is relative. How many of you, > who believe nothing should be improved, built a quick build instead of a > slow build? How many built a slow build instead > of using plans only? Be honest... How many of you > would be willing to forego the improvements that have already been made > over > the years by Van's? > There is always room for improvement. > > David Kirby > RV-6AQB > Griffin, Ga. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:53 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" How about one of these? http://rvproject.com/images/2005/20050723_roll1.jpg http://rvproject.com/images/2005/20050723_dan_upside_down.jpg )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (592 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Larson" Subject: RV-List: Photo for presentation > --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson > > On Wednesday, I'm giving a presentation titled, "Homebuilt Aviation: > Cunning Plan or Proof of Insanity?" I am applying the final touches > and am hoping for a few more photos. > > One photo I would like is an RV obviously engaged in some > demonstration of "fun" such as aerobatics. I'm trying to show in a > photo that an RV is more fun to fly than a Cessna, and the audience > is NOT composed of pilots. > > If anyone has any photos I could use for this, please let me know. > > -Joe > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:18 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Joe Larson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson > > On Wednesday, I'm giving a presentation titled, "Homebuilt Aviation: > Cunning Plan or Proof of Insanity?" I am applying the final touches > and am hoping for a few more photos. > > One photo I would like is an RV obviously engaged in some > demonstration of "fun" such as aerobatics. I'm trying to show in a > photo that an RV is more fun to fly than a Cessna, and the audience > is NOT composed of pilots. Your making a presentation to non-pilots and the word "Insanity" is in your title?!? Wow.....bet Phil Boyer and the PR guys at AOPA would really get a charge out of this one.... I wish you the best with your presentation but hope you reconsider the title. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, trying for years to convince non-flying folks we aren't insane...) ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:16 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Manual Flaps?, RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 08/15/2005 3:45:15 PM Central Standard Time, deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com writes: The stock electric > motor has a poor track record. >>> Hi Bill- Not an attempt to dissuade you from manual, but pretty sure the "bad" motors was a somewhat limited run from 2000 or 2001 (not sure of dates- archive check to be sure). Mine was shipped around 2002 and has performed perfectly for 220+ hours, as have many others for far longer than that... Best wishes & do not archive Mark Phillips -6A N51PW ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:01 PM PST US From: Joe Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson LOL @ Sam! It's sort of a long story. I belong to Toastmasters. My first presentation was supposed to just be an introduction to me, so I titled it "Geek Coolness" and talked about my own personal style. When I mentioned I was building an airplane, I got a bunch of looks that could be interpreted as "do you know what you're doing?" or perhaps more accurately as "are you nuts?" So for my second talk, I'm going to explain why someone would want an RV (that's the first half) and why it's not as crazy as it sounds. One feature of my public speaking is a certain amount of tongue-in- cheek humor. For instance, I included baby pictures in my last talk -- Jennifer Grey from "Dirty Dancing" (her character's name was Baby) and the leopard from "Bringing Up Baby". In this presentation, when talking about the planes I currently rent from the airport, my wife found a photo from the Airplane Graveyard. You get the idea. The title is completely in line with my style of humor, and the nature of the talk is to attempt to convince people it's a cunning plan, NOT proof of insanity. -Joe do not archive On Aug 15, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Sam Buchanan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > Joe Larson wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson >> >> On Wednesday, I'm giving a presentation titled, "Homebuilt Aviation: >> Cunning Plan or Proof of Insanity?" I am applying the final touches >> and am hoping for a few more photos. >> >> One photo I would like is an RV obviously engaged in some >> demonstration of "fun" such as aerobatics. I'm trying to show in a >> photo that an RV is more fun to fly than a Cessna, and the audience >> is NOT composed of pilots. >> > > > Your making a presentation to non-pilots and the word "Insanity" is in > your title?!? > > Wow.....bet Phil Boyer and the PR guys at AOPA would really get a > charge > out of this one.... > > I wish you the best with your presentation but hope you reconsider the > title. > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, trying for years to convince non-flying folks we > aren't insane...) > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:04 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture cable too short? --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 08/15/2005 4:39:33 PM Central Standard Time, ghinman@mts.net writes: . But what if it's the cable that does not have the necessary travel? >>> This may not be relevant to your situation, just something I've noticed on mine- I also can't seem to get full idle cutoff every time, even though the mixture arm (O-320, MA-4 carb) appears to go all the way to the carb body when I'm looking at it (assuming is does so in flight!). But I've also noticed that I have to pull the knob out over one inch before mixture begins to lean enough to affect engine rpm above 3-4000', and EGTs don't start going up until the knob is pulled almost that far- about 3/4". Wondering if that first inch of travel is having no (or little) effect on mixture and could be re-rigged for more positive idle cutoff? In other words, re-rig so at full rich, the carb arm is not quite to its stop, allowing available travel to pull the mixture lever more into idle cutoff? Another suspicion is that some fuel is leaking past a worn mixture valve even when at full cutoff, or possibly idle mixture a bit too rich? Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:11 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > How about one of these? > > http://rvproject.com/images/2005/20050723_roll1.jpg > http://rvproject.com/images/2005/20050723_dan_upside_down.jpg > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (592 hours) > http://www.rvproject.com All right, Dan, that ain't being upside down. See: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/66AP%20inverted%20with%20Tom%203 .jpg The picture is a little crummy because it was taken from video. Alex Peterson RV6A N66AP 654 hours ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:39 PM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Title page of the OVRV Yahoo group shows an RV formation as pretty as you'll ever see ; I think it's on Doug Reeves' site as well. 5 or 6 vertical stabs all lined up perfectly... -Stormy not in the picture; wish I was that good :-) -----Original Message----- From: Joe Larson Subject: RV-List: Photo for presentation --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson On Wednesday, I'm giving a presentation titled, "Homebuilt Aviation: Cunning Plan or Proof of Insanity?" I am applying the final touches and am hoping for a few more photos. One photo I would like is an RV obviously engaged in some demonstration of "fun" such as aerobatics. I'm trying to show in a photo that an RV is more fun to fly than a Cessna, and the audience is NOT composed of pilots. If anyone has any photos I could use for this, please let me know. -Joe ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:55 PM PST US From: "Piavis" Subject: RV-List: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA --> RV-List message posted by: "Piavis" I'm looking at taking a low & slow biplane from the Bay Area to Seattle area in two weeks and was thinking of just following I-5 up north. Is it preferable to stay east of the Cascades until as far north as possible or just go IFR? Anyone have a good recommendation on an RON in the Portland Area or just south? Thanks, Jim -7 Fuse (Progress nil due to re-location) ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:20 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Ed Holyoke's Rant/QB FOD --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hey, it ain't all bad....they shipped me 3 free clecos, and a free #30 12" drill bit... One man's junk is another's treasure. ;) Tools from the Philippines...gotta love it. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Doors/Windows DO NOT ARCHIVE Jim Robinette wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Robinette" > > You would also expect a QB to be free from FOD! I bought my QB fuse and > wings direct from Van's. Put the fuse on Jeff Bordeleon's rotisserie > only find all kinds of items such as rusted clecos, pop rivets, regular > rivets and some scrap aluminum to fall out. Not that significant, until > there was more clanking beneath the floorboards that couldn't be > stopped. Now I have to either deal with FOD under the seats or drill > out the floorboards to remove it. > > Most people wouldn't find this FOD unless they flipped their QB fuse > over. Seems there needs to be a little better quality control in the > PI! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skylor Piper > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy - Ed Holyoke's Rant > > --- Ed Holyoke wrote: > > >>>One could also expect that a >> >>jig-built quickbuild >>would be straight... > > > > Isn't that the truth! > > Skylor > RV-8 QB, Under Construction > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:49 PM PST US From: Henry Hochberg Subject: Re: RV-List: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA --> RV-List message posted by: Henry Hochberg Weather permitting, take the coastal route, generally lower MEA's if you do have to file IFR and the views are superb. If not, again weather permitting, go west of the cascades and RON in McMinnville. Get a tour of the spruce goose museum. An IFR biplane.......couldn't be a Staggerwing, that would be too fast. Henry H. Piavis wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Piavis" > >I'm looking at taking a low & slow biplane from the Bay Area to Seattle area >in two weeks and was thinking of just following I-5 up north. Is it >preferable to stay east of the Cascades until as far north as possible or >just go IFR? Anyone have a good recommendation on an RON in the Portland >Area or just south? > >Thanks, > >Jim >-7 Fuse >(Progress nil due to re-location) > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:46 PM PST US From: "charlie heathco" Subject: RV-List: EZ-Pilot problem autolearn=no version=3.0.2 --> RV-List message posted by: "charlie heathco" Well It wasnt easy, but I finally got it together. had to take the servo back out and drill out the arm atach hole because somebody forgot to do it. Then on fire up it pulled the stick almost max left and ocilated like crazy, and corections were backward, no sweat, reading on I learned all I had to do was reverse the servo. Ok did that, still on turn on it pulled the stick near max left, in fact if I put that much control in it would have done a fast aileron roll. Called for help, Oh all you have to do is disasemble the control arm off the servo which instructions told you to glue on, then experiment with moveing the arm around, crawling back in the plane and turning it on, then keep trying till it might miraculisly center itelf. Wow! What a deal! for only $1800, you can get an almost working unit! All you have to do is spend couple hundred dollars worth of time and it might even work!!! What a peice of Shit!!! ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:59 PM PST US From: "Dean Van Winkle" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" Piavis If you want to RON in the Portland area, You might consider McMinnville, Or, about 40 miles SW of Portland. The Evergreen Aviation Museum is right across the road from the airport with the "Spruce Goose" and many other outstanding aircraft. We were there just last month and would highly recommend it if you haven't been there before. Have a safe journey! Dean Van Winkle RV-9A Fuselage/Finish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Piavis" Subject: RV-List: Cross-Country Route SF to SEA > --> RV-List message posted by: "Piavis" > > I'm looking at taking a low & slow biplane from the Bay Area to Seattle > area > in two weeks and was thinking of just following I-5 up north. Is it > preferable to stay east of the Cascades until as far north as possible or > just go IFR? Anyone have a good recommendation on an RON in the Portland > Area or just south? > > Thanks, > > Jim > -7 Fuse > (Progress nil due to re-location) > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:07 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron pushrod and wing mounting --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 8/14/05 8:11:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jorear@new.rr.com writes: > My plan has been to get the wings mounted and then make up my pushrods and > fish them through the wing via the lightening holes. I figure that once I > get them to the bellcrank, I can finish getting them into the fuselage by > grabbing them at the aileron bellcrank access. > That's exactly how I did it and it worked fine for me. Wrap them with masking tape to avoid scratching them as you feed them through the lightening holes. Don't cut the inboard end until the first trial fit, then you can see just how long they need to be. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 118 hours