Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 04:09 AM - Re: Photo for presentation (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
3. 05:31 AM - Re: Large static port error (Dale Ensing)
4. 05:32 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Chuck Jensen)
5. 05:42 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
6. 06:25 AM - Re: TASKEM altimeter (SCOTT SPENCER)
7. 06:29 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Rhonda Bewley)
8. 06:58 AM - Anyone flying with a BMA/EFIS one? (n223rv@wolflakeairport.net)
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Large static port error (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
10. 07:18 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Alex Peterson)
11. 07:21 AM - Re: Photo for presentation (LarryRobertHelming)
12. 07:51 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Dwight Frye)
13. 08:02 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Jeff Dowling)
14. 08:05 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Bob)
15. 08:34 AM - Re: First Flight Video (BBreckenridge@att.net)
16. 08:39 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Dan Checkoway)
17. 09:03 AM - Re: Large static port error (Chuck Weyant)
18. 09:12 AM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (Skylor Piper)
19. 09:30 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Kevin Horton)
20. 10:11 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Darrell Reiley)
21. 10:13 AM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (Rick Galati)
22. 10:38 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Ron Lee)
23. 10:52 AM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Chuck Jensen)
24. 11:04 AM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR)
25. 11:16 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Konrad L. Werner)
26. 11:18 AM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Bill VonDane)
27. 11:55 AM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (Mickey Coggins)
28. 12:10 PM - Re-engineering (was Large static port error) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
29. 12:16 PM - Fly-In Saturday Aug20 Polson, MT 8S1 (Tony Marshall)
30. 12:44 PM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Kevin Horton)
31. 01:07 PM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (LarryRobertHelming)
32. 01:20 PM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights (George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR)
33. 01:21 PM - Re: Visit to Airflow Performance (Chuck Jensen)
34. 01:28 PM - Re: Mixture cable too short? (Steve Struyk)
35. 01:43 PM - New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale (Bill VonDane)
36. 01:43 PM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA (Skylor Piper)
37. 02:16 PM - Re: New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale (Walter Tondu)
38. 02:28 PM - Loans (John Furey)
39. 02:29 PM - Loans (John Furey)
40. 02:41 PM - 2005 Twin Cities fly-in/camp-in (Alex Peterson)
41. 03:08 PM - Re: Loans (Cory Emberson)
42. 03:08 PM - Re: New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale (Bill VonDane)
43. 03:10 PM - Re: Loans (Walter Tondu)
44. 04:06 PM - circuit breaker installation ()
45. 04:58 PM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (RV6 Flyer)
46. 05:54 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Charlie England)
47. 06:27 PM - Re: Photo for presentation (Bill VonDane)
48. 07:39 PM - Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep (Ron Lee)
49. 11:44 PM - Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
That's correct Ron.
They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be a safe and
proficient formation pilot.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
Is that correct?
Ron Lee
Message 2
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| Subject: | Photo for presentation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Nope. I was at about 50' when the photo was taken. She snapped the
picture at the exact moment of a 4 point roll. That's what made it so
neat.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV-List: Photo for presentation
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> my all time favorites. You might also look closely and see the
ailerons
> are neutral, stick is neutral in my lap and I don't have inverted oil.
> So all you geniuses... How can that be?
Sounds like the top of a loop to me.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Large static port error |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
AND it is a whole lot cheaper and easier to just install the Van's static
port pop rivets, than it is to try to simulate it with fancy machined parts
later.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Couldn't agree more Larry! But, I thought I was upgrading years ago when I
spent extra money on the Cleveland static ports.
Do you (or anyone) know if there is enough wall thickness in the Cleveland
ports to drill out the hole to allow a press fit insertion of the rivet?
Dale Ensing
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
A few weeks ago, after posting a request for a recommendation on getting injectors
in an IO-540 balanced on the Reflector (Velocity website). Based on two or
three recommendations, I contacted Air Flow Performance, Spartanburg, SC (SPA).
I related to Don that I had done the GAMI routine, but after a year, the
lowest spread achieved was 1.5 gph. One of the best, if still not great, settings
after multiple GAMI injectors change outs was to run #3 and #6 LOP and the
other four ROP. Not ideal but it kind of worked. When pressed about why the
tuned injectors weren't tuned after innumerable lean test runs and injector
change outs, GAMI said "huh, that's odd" but never solved the problem.
After a couple missed appointments due to schedule and weather, we hooked up on
Saturday (yes, they volunteered to come in on Saturday to accommodate my schedule).
From the baseline flight of 1.5 gph spread, the next set of restrictors
dropped it to 1.2, then 0.8, then less than 0.4--done!
In 4-5 hours, I'd resolved the issue that I'd been piddling with for over a year.
Now, in all fairness to GAMI, they were very patient and persistent. Over
the year, they sent a LOT of injectors. Of course, each required cowl removal,
injector change out, then a new set of lean tests, just to find out they really
didn't change anything.
After the second flight at Airflow, a 5 minute explanation finally made sense of
why the GAMI injector change outs never changed anything. It turns out the
Flow Divider opening pressure is around 1.5 PSI. Since our test points were around
12 GPH that resulted in a nozzle back pressure of around 1.7 PSI. What
was happening was that even though a larger nozzle was being installed in cylinder
#6 the Flow Divider was influencing the division of flow to the nozzles.
The solution was counter intuitive, but eminently sensible when understood.
To make #6 rich, the other cylinders were 'cinched down' with smaller restrictors,
which caused the nozzle back pressure to increase driving the Flow Divider
more open so that it would not influence the division of flow to the nozzles.
With more fuel being pushed to #6 and they dialed right in.
Now, I assume GAMI is probably that smart also, but the advantages of hands-on
problem analysis and immediate retesting are inestimable, something that GAMI,
due to geography couldn't do.
More important than the 0.5-0.8 gph fuel savings was the smoothness factor. The
canard, which is an excellent tell-tale for vibration, was dead calm throughout
the ROP area and displayed only a small vibration when I went into the LOP
region. That small vibration vibration is still less than anything I'd achieved
with the GAMI injectors in either ROP/LOP operations.
Finally, I note there is a difference between GAMI and Airflow for making injector
adjustments. GAMI changes out the whole injector whereas Airflow uses an
injector body, then they just swaps out the restrictor inserts, which only requires
removal of the fuel line nut, relatively easy to do even when we have to
work around/through the Velo plenum. With the GAMIs, I was never enthused about
screwing multiple injectors into the cylinders. The odds of cross-threading
and screwing up the injector or cylinder is low, but still there.
Whether you bring the plane to Spartanburg (SPA) or do it remotely, I'm guessing
you'll come away smarter and with as good or better results than from some of
their competitors. The office walls are plastered with all the show pilots
they tune, including Patty Wagstaff, Tucker, et al.
And the best part; the total cost for the Airflow injector balancing, including
new injectors, was about the cost of the GAMIs...and I didn't have to do all
the work.
So, as you might guess, I'm sold. Without reservation on cost, service or results,
Airflow gets my vote. This is one instance where we don't have to whine
about over-priced and under-served in the aviation business.
Chuck
Disclosure: I don't own or have an interest in Airflow...but I wish I did.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Chuck, could u give us a name and contact number for AFP.
Thanks,
Doug Preston
BHM
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: TASKEM altimeter |
--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
I have one and have used it for several years / hundreds of hours as a backup altimeter
and primarily a rate of climb... and find it works well -once it's set
up and calibrated with the proper offset (which took some time). It does have
a bit of an annoying warm up period but seems to be dead-on with the steam guage
altimeter at every glance. I haven't had luck getting the encoder to work
(I wanted to use it as a back-up encoder as well) -but haven't invested much
effort in trying to figure out why the encoder function isn't working.
It makes an awesome R.O.C. and I find it's very easy to see small trends before
the altitude changes at all -which along with my primary steam guage altimeter
makes holding an altitude very easy.
I have just purchased a Dynon and will have essentially 3 altimeters after installing
it -because I'm keeping my steam guage altimeter for the forseeable future
to backup the Dynon (I fly for a living and have learned to appreciate steam
guage backups even in EFIS equipped corporate aircraft -those darn tubes get
really black when they go out... nothing like flying along seeing your reflection
in a dark screen in IMC)
Anyway -I might consider selling it 'cause 2 altimeters is enough. One electric...
one not.
Scott
N4ZW
RV-4
Message 7
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda@BPAENGINES.com>
You may contact Don or Colleen Rivera at (864)576-0201.
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Visit to Airflow Performance
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Chuck, could u give us a name and contact number for AFP.
Thanks,
Doug Preston
BHM
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Anyone flying with a BMA/EFIS one? |
--> RV-List message posted by: n223rv@wolflakeairport.net
I am interested in talking with people flying with the Blue Mountain
EFIS/One. I am having a hard time deciding what I want to use in my RV-10
and was hoping to get some real users input.
Please contact me offline at n223rv@wolflakeairport.net. I'd really like
to talk with people who are flying with them.
Thank you
Mike
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 building
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Large static port error |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
I tried the rivet thing with unsatisfactory results and did this instead:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4987
another look:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4989
Roll yer own or let me know if ya want some...
Mark Phillips - Columbia, TN
RV-6A N51PW
Message 10
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| Subject: | Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
I made a little clip which holds the pushbutton in on the vernier throttle.
It is easy to manually hold the button in for a few minutes with the palm of
the hand, but it gets tiring after 20 minutes or so. Another thing which I
deem essential for a center throttle and formation flying is an armrest for
the throttle arm. Very precise movements are possible with the throttle
knob in the hand and a finger against the panel.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
Maple Grove, MN
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> --> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> That's correct Ron.
> They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be
> a safe and proficient formation pilot.
> Mike
> Do not archive.
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>
> I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> Ron Lee
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Photo for presentation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
50' !! AGL or 50' above another plane? Either way is amazing.
Please do not attempt this any more, especially when I am around the area.
And is your insurance carrier Falcon at EAA.
Thank you Mike for the picture however. ONe for the scrap book to keep. do
not archive.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
(((((((((((())))))))))))))))
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Nope. I was at about 50' when the photo was taken. She snapped the
> picture at the exact moment of a 4 point roll. That's what made it so
> neat.
>
> Mike
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
With all the praises being heaped upon Airflow Performance, I thought I'd
chime in with my (extremely good) experience. I was in the middle of fitting
my fuel pump and found that the fitting on the manifold was angled such
that the tubing coming off the "T" hit the filter that was to be mounted
right beside it. This kept me from orienting the pump in the upright position
and would have had the top end of the manifold hitting the side plate. It
just didn't want to fit the way that "T" was oriented. See the following
links for details .. if the way I described it above is confusing. :)
http://www.openweave.org/RV7/showpic.php?picture=Fuselage/PumpInterference.pic
http://www.openweave.org/RV7/showpic.php?picture=Fuselage/PumpInterference1.pic
Anyway ... before I broke something trying to re-clock the fitting myself (and
after talking to other builders) I called Don at AFP. The discussion was a
bit unreal. I explained my situation, and asked if I could re-clock it myself.
He said that I shouldn't do it myself as I would void a warranty, but that they
could do it for me. I asked if I could just fly or drive down with the unit
and he said that would be fine. I asked when would be a good time .. and he
said any time, even over a weekend, just give him a few days advance notice.
Now we get to the unreal part ... I asked how much it would cost, and he seemed
confused and said "nothing". So, he was willing to see me on a weekend, fix my
problem, and not charge me a dime. Ok. Sure. I'll believe it when I see it.
We made a plan to have me visit on a Sunday, and he was already were there
at the shop. He took me back to their work area, quickly re-clocked the "T"
for me, re-fabricated the tubing that had to be replaced, ran the pump and
flow-checked it on their flow bench ... *and* gave me a tour of their faciliy
*and* chatted non-stop about airplanes and fuel injection. He was gracious and
helpful and ... didn't charge me a dime.
I came away from AFP sold. What customer service! What an good impression this
experience left with me! It seems that my experience was not an isolated one,
either, if this thread of discussion on the list is to be believed.
I had been inclined to sign up for their "Fuel Injection 101" class and after
this experience with them am more convinced it is a good idea than ever.
Anyway ... just thought I'd share.
-- Dwight
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Study a bit? Study a ton for my pee size memory!! I hope I can find the
time.
Shemp
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Jeff,
>
> The hand signals in the T-34 manual are alot like the ones we used in the
> military but there are some differences. If you are going you will need
> to
> find a T-34 manual to study a bit.
>
> Tom - using Kabongs computer.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
>> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I dont remember what manual I used 16 years ago but I assume it was part
>> of
>> the T-37 "dash one" (operating manual). I dont have a good memory
>> though,
>> I
>> think.
>>
>> Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>> RV-6A, N915JD
>> 235 hours
>> Chicago/Louisville
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> The T-34 Formation Flight Manual is THE only manual that will do. It is
>>> the
>>> STANDARD adopted by all FAA Approved Formation flight agencies.
>>>
>>> I never saw a T-37 formation fight manual. Is there such a thing?
>>>
>>> Gary A. Sobek
>>> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>>> 1,749 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>>> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----Original Message Follows----
>>> From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:04:26 -0500
>>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
>>> <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Would a t-37 manual be ok or are there a lot of differences due to the
>>> prop?
>>>
>>> Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>>> RV-6A, N915JD
>>> 235 hours
>>> Chicago/Louisville
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <sturdy@att.net>
>>> To: "RV-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
>>>
>>>
>>> > --> RV-List message posted by: sturdy@att.net
>>> >
>>> > The Abilene Airfest Formation Flying Clinic will be conducted at
>>> > Abilene
>>> > Regional Airport (KABI) on 23-25 Sep. The clinic is being conducted
>>> > by
>>> > Stu McCurdy and Mike Stewart and will follow the sequence previously
>>> > used
>>> > at our other successful formation clinics. The clinic targets RV type
>>> > aircraft, but aircraft of similar configuration and airspeeds will be
>>> > considered. The clinic is held for pilots of all formation
>>> > backgrounds
>>> > from no experience to highly experienced, but all registrants should
>>> > have
>>> > excellent stick and rudder skills. We generally like a mix of 1/3
>>> > no/little experience, 1/3 medium experience, 1/3 highly experienced.
>>> > Please note we expect participants to be prepared by obtaining and
>>> > studying referenced materials. To read clinic info, to register, as
>>> > well
>>> > as to make your motel reservations, go here
>>> > http://bigcountryairfest.org/html/formation_flight_clinic.html. We
>>> > will
>>> > limit total participation. Also, please note the block of rooms will
>>> > be
>>> > held only until
>>> > 8 Sep, so early registration is encouraged.
>>> >
>>> > Stu McCurdy
>>> > Falcon Flight
>>> > FFI
>>> > RV-8
>>> >
>>> > <!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The Abilene Airfest Formation Flying Clinic will be conducted at
>>> > Abilene
>>> > Regional Airport (KABI) on 23-25 Sep. The clinic is being conducted by
>>> Stu
>>> > McCurdy and <st1:PersonName>Mike Stewart</st1:PersonName> and will
>>> > follow
>>> > the sequence previously used at our other successful formation
>>> > clinics.
>>> > The clinic targets RV type aircraft, but aircraft of similar
>>> configuration
>>> > and airspeeds will be considered. The clinic is held for pilots of all
>>> > formation backgrounds from no experience to highly experienced, but
>>> > all
>>> > registrants should have excellent stick and rudder skills. </
>>> > SPAN>We generally like a mix of 1/3 no/little experience, 1/3 medium
>>> > experience, 1/3 highly experienced. Please note we expect participants
>>> > to
>>> > be prepared by obtaining and studying referenced materials. To read
>>> clinic
>>> > info, to register, as well as to make your motel reservations, go here
>>> > http://bigcountryairfest.org/html/formation_flight_clinic.html. We
>>> > will
>>> > limit total participation. Also, please note the block of rooms will
>>> > be
>>> > held only until 8 Sep, so early registration is encouraged.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Stu McCurdy
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Falcon Flight
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > FFI
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > RV-8
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
At 05:18 PM 8/18/05, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
>
>What's the money for the system?
I went through the numbers with Don on this. The price is about $3100 for
a complete system RV system, which is a little less than a complete Bendix
system. Don will sell either system. Now the complete system includes the
purge valve and fuel pump with filter. Make sure when you do a comparison,
you include those items. Note: the AFP auxiliary fuel pump is a lot less
expensive than any other FI fuel pump that I know of.
Also Don told me that the AFP will produce more HP than the Bendix, I did
not question him on this, so I can not defend his claim. But, I think the
AFP is bigger, therefore provides more air and fuel. For those that
disagree, talk to Don.
If all you will ever do is fly right side up, I would not recommend Fuel
Injection. In my case FI is harder to start and real hard to start when it
is hot, also I get engine surging on hot days while taxiing. These are not
complaints, just a trade off to get good inverted fuel flow to the engine.
For those still building and getting all that FAA educational and
recreational experience (occasional frustration), the educational and
recreational experience does not stop once the airplane is flying.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight Video |
1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
--> RV-List message posted by: BBreckenridge@att.net
Walter;
Excellent quality video. Loved the "video in video" aspect of take off & landing.
I admit, watching the take off roll & rotation made me think that you were
going to retract your gear at any moment!! Maybe it was the music! Thanks
for a real treat. Enjoy!
Bruce
40018
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Walter;
Excellent quality video. Loved the "video in video" aspect of take off landing.
I admit, watching the take off roll rotation made me think that you were going
to retract your gear at any moment!! Maybe it was the music! Thanks for a
real treat. Enjoy!
Bruce
40018
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Also Don told me that the AFP will produce more HP than the Bendix, I did
> not question him on this, so I can not defend his claim. But, I think the
> AFP is bigger, therefore provides more air and fuel. For those that
> disagree, talk to Don.
I can tell you that I get higher manifold pressure (and a heck of a fast
plane) using AFP injection on my RV-7. Don't know if the higher available
manifold pressure is due to AFP, extremely efficient induction/exhaust, or
what. Probably all of the above.
> If all you will ever do is fly right side up, I would not recommend Fuel
Don't forget about the ability to run LOP (lean of peak) when running
balanced FI. Hey, I don't know about you, but with fuel prices going nuts,
I run LOP on almost every flight, regardless of mission. The fuel savings
is getting bigger and bigger as fuel prices go up. Yes, the expense is
higher up front, but it pays for itself quickly. And more and more quickly
as fuel prices rise.
Fuel injection is not just about inverted fuel delivery. It's about saving
money, running your engine in a more healthy fashion, extracting more power
from the same displacement, etc. It's a thing of beauty!!
> Injection. In my case FI is harder to start and real hard to start when
> it
Do you use the purge valve? My engine is by no means as easy to start when
hot as a carb'd setup is, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.
Every once in a while I booger a hot start, but it's always due to something
I screwed up in the process. When done correctly, it's easy.
I'm kind of a fuel injection fanatic, so take what I say with a grain of
salt.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Large static port error |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
I'm flying a RV9A since last October. Let me say this about
'reengineering'. Think twice about it. I didn't alter anthing on my 9A.
Built it just the way Van's instructions and plans say to do. I've now got
about a hundred and ten hours on my beauty and nothing, and I mean nothing
has gone wrong. It flies beautifully and I wasn't slowed down in the
building process by having to redo something that didn't work out to be an
improvement after all. If you read and study the plans thoroughly before
cutting, pounding, bending, or riveting; get the firewall forward kit and
don't pick some weird powerplant, you'll save time (and money) in the long
run and go flying sooner with far fewer headaches and discouragements.
I enjoyed the building process more than I'd dreamed, but my motivation was
to build something to fly. That's why I didn't alter a thing from the
plans. To do so adds time to the building process. I get gobs of
compliments too. Oh yes, and my static ports work just fine!
Chuck Weyant
N8058V --- RV9A
I'll email a pic on request
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Large static port error
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> I tried the rivet thing with unsatisfactory results and did this instead:
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4987
>
> another look:
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4989
>
> Roll yer own or let me know if ya want some...
>
> Mark Phillips - Columbia, TN
> RV-6A N51PW
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Am I the only one who is scared to death by the
washer/bolt idea shown below? If that bolt backs out
in flight, it will lead to a locked elevator! In my
opinion, that thing absolutely needs to be safety
wired!
Skylor
RV-8 QB
Under Construction
--- Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver
> <brad@rv7factory.com>
>
> Yes, exactly!!!
>
> I thought I was being clever... guess not. ;-)
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Shaping the elevator counter
> weights
> > From: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR
> <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
> > Date: Thu, August 18, 2005 11:22 am
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt
> AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
> >
> > Brad -
> > Like this?
> >
>
http://www.appaero.com/Pictures/Emp%20Pics/Elev%20Pics/MoreWeight.JPG
> >
> >
>
http://www.appaero.com/Pictures/Emp%20Pics/Elev%20Pics/CBalance.JPG
> >
> > Neal
> > RV-7 N8ZG (Center Fuselage)
> > RV-8 N998GM (Skinning Wings)
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > What if... and I am just thinking out loud here...
> before installing the
> > tip, you install a nutplate on the forward tooling
> hole (on the ribs)?
> > This would give you a place to bolt additional
> weight if needed down
> > the road (after paint). My only concern there
> would be the potential
> > that the screw would back out even though it is in
> a nutplate, and the
> > weight would come loose, but I guess a good amount
> of loctite might
> > mitigate the chances of that happening?
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Brad
> > RV-7 Livermore, CA
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Aug 2005, at 11:38, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>
>> Also Don told me that the AFP will produce more HP than the
>> Bendix, I did
>> not question him on this, so I can not defend his claim. But, I
>> think the
>> AFP is bigger, therefore provides more air and fuel. For those that
>> disagree, talk to Don.
>>
>
> I can tell you that I get higher manifold pressure (and a heck of a
> fast
> plane) using AFP injection on my RV-7. Don't know if the higher
> available
> manifold pressure is due to AFP, extremely efficient induction/
> exhaust, or
> what. Probably all of the above.
I'd love to see the data from testing with AFP and Bendix on the same
plane, with the same MP gauge, air filter, exhaust, etc. There are
so many variables if you try to compare data from AFP on one plane
against Bendix on another it is hard to know to which variable to
attribute any differences.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 20
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
For a complete system that's a Great Price! I think it's time to call Don.
Thanks for the info...
Darrell
Bob <panamared3@brier.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob
At 05:18 PM 8/18/05, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley
>
>What's the money for the system?
I went through the numbers with Don on this. The price is about $3100 for
a complete system RV system, which is a little less than a complete Bendix
system. Don will sell either system. Now the complete system includes the
purge valve and fuel pump with filter. Make sure when you do a comparison,
you include those items. Note: the AFP auxiliary fuel pump is a lot less
expensive than any other FI fuel pump that I know of.
Also Don told me that the AFP will produce more HP than the Bendix, I did
not question him on this, so I can not defend his claim. But, I think the
AFP is bigger, therefore provides more air and fuel. For those that
disagree, talk to Don.
If all you will ever do is fly right side up, I would not recommend Fuel
Injection. In my case FI is harder to start and real hard to start when it
is hot, also I get engine surging on hot days while taxiing. These are not
complaints, just a trade off to get good inverted fuel flow to the engine.
For those still building and getting all that FAA educational and
recreational experience (occasional frustration), the educational and
recreational experience does not stop once the airplane is flying.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Darrell Reiley
Round Rock, Texas
RV 7A "Reiley Rocket"
N622DR (reserved)
Message 21
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| Subject: | RE: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Personally, I'd be more concerned about the lack of minimum acceptable thread protrusion.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 68 hours
RV-8A empennage complete
Am I the only one who is scared to death by the
washer/bolt idea shown below? If that bolt backs out
in flight, it will lead to a locked elevator! In my
opinion, that thing absolutely needs to be safety
wired!
Skylor
RV-8 QB
Under Construction
Message 22
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| Subject: | Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
If you want precise movements that is what a vernier allows. Seems silly
to me so I just won't go.
Ron Lee
At 08:17 AM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>I made a little clip which holds the pushbutton in on the vernier throttle.
>It is easy to manually hold the button in for a few minutes with the palm of
>the hand, but it gets tiring after 20 minutes or so. Another thing which I
>deem essential for a center throttle and formation flying is an armrest for
>the throttle arm. Very precise movements are possible with the throttle
>knob in the hand and a finger against the panel.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> > --> <mstewart@iss.net>
> >
> > That's correct Ron.
> > They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be
> > a safe and proficient formation pilot.
> > Mike
> > Do not archive.
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> >
> > I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
> >
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Ron Lee
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Kevin,
You're exactly correct in that such a side by side comparison is rife
with subjective, qualitative assessments. What I can tell you is after
Air Flow did injector balancing on a Bendix FI system, that the fuel
flow for the same power was 0.5 gph less, the peak EGT spread was
reduced to 0.3 gph from 1.5 gph (quantitative/factual) and the engine
ran markedly smoother through all power regimes
(qualitative/subjective).
A before-after is quite easy to compare. A side by side between two
different systems is significantly more difficult. I don't know if an
Air Flow FI is better than a Bendix FI, but I know an Air Flow injector
tuning took 1 year and several hundred dollars less than GAMI, which
never got there. So...
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Visit to Airflow Performance
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Aug 2005, at 11:38, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>
>> Also Don told me that the AFP will produce more HP than the
>> Bendix, I did
>> not question him on this, so I can not defend his claim. But, I
>> think the
>> AFP is bigger, therefore provides more air and fuel. For those that
>> disagree, talk to Don.
>>
>
> I can tell you that I get higher manifold pressure (and a heck of a
> fast
> plane) using AFP injection on my RV-7. Don't know if the higher
> available
> manifold pressure is due to AFP, extremely efficient induction/
> exhaust, or
> what. Probably all of the above.
I'd love to see the data from testing with AFP and Bendix on the same
plane, with the same MP gauge, air filter, exhaust, etc. There are
so many variables if you try to compare data from AFP on one plane
against Bendix on another it is hard to know to which variable to
attribute any differences.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Good eye Skylor -
In the text on the web site, you'll read that I wasn't satisfied with the
first draft and opted to move the bolt and weights to the outboard side of
the counterbalance rib. Though not specifically mentioned, it will also get
safety wire.
Brad and I have been discussing this very topic off-list.
Full page view here: http://www.appaero.com/emp_fiberlass.htm
Neal --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
Am I the only one who is scared to death by the
washer/bolt idea shown below? If that bolt backs out
in flight, it will lead to a locked elevator! In my
opinion, that thing absolutely needs to be safety
wired!
Skylor
RV-8 QB
Under Construction
<
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Precise yes, but not quick enough a response when in very close proximity of another
A/C.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
If you want precise movements that is what a vernier allows. Seems silly
to me so I just won't go.
Ron Lee
At 08:17 AM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>I made a little clip which holds the pushbutton in on the vernier throttle.
>It is easy to manually hold the button in for a few minutes with the palm of
>the hand, but it gets tiring after 20 minutes or so. Another thing which I
>deem essential for a center throttle and formation flying is an armrest for
>the throttle arm. Very precise movements are possible with the throttle
>knob in the hand and a finger against the panel.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> > --> <mstewart@iss.net>
> >
> > That's correct Ron.
> > They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be
> > a safe and proficient formation pilot.
> > Mike
> > Do not archive.
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> >
> > I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
> >
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Ron Lee
>
>
--
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
It's more of a speed thing then precision... You need to be able to make
changes to the throttle, large or small, without any obstruction or delay...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
If you want precise movements that is what a vernier allows. Seems silly
to me so I just won't go.
Ron Lee
At 08:17 AM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>I made a little clip which holds the pushbutton in on the vernier throttle.
>It is easy to manually hold the button in for a few minutes with the palm
of
>the hand, but it gets tiring after 20 minutes or so. Another thing which I
>deem essential for a center throttle and formation flying is an armrest for
>the throttle arm. Very precise movements are possible with the throttle
>knob in the hand and a finger against the panel.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> > --> <mstewart@iss.net>
> >
> > That's correct Ron.
> > They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be
> > a safe and proficient formation pilot.
> > Mike
> > Do not archive.
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> >
> > I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
> >
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Ron Lee
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Neal,
>
> Brad and I have been discussing this very topic off-list.
>
> Full page view here: http://www.appaero.com/emp_fiberlass.htm
>
Quick question on the elevator lead - I was thinking of just
cutting more space on the HS and then building up using
fiberglass over the lead counterweight to make it smooth.
Does this seem like it would work ok?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re-engineering (was Large static port error) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy Chuck-
Absolutely no offense, but please see imbeds below:
>>Let me say this about 'reengineering'.=A0 Think twice about it.=A0
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call using an easy-to-make, install and
connect static port to the same dimensions as the pop-rivet thing as
"reengineering"- especially since it works just fine- I'd call that an "improvement".
Yes, many have used the pops successfully, but my incentive was to make sure I
never had to crawl back in to re-connect or re-attach a loose/leaky hose. I'm
positive I "thought" about it more than twice- I s'pose I just think too much-
my bad... 8-)
>>I didn't alter anthing on my 9A. Built it just the way Van's instructions
and plans say to do.=A0
That's terrific- and you got a great airplane to show for it. FWIW, I
altered a bunch of stuff, just nothing affecting structural or aerodynamic
qualities, and always got Vans Tech input if I thought it might. Mostly cosmetic,
ease-of-build or maintenance stuff, which is one of the great advantages of
building an experimental. (You didn't DARE use any pop-rivets where solids=20were
called out, did you?)
>>I've now got about a hundred and ten hours on my beauty and nothing, and I
mean nothing has gone wrong.=A0
Congratulations, and I mean it! Pretty much the same for my plane after
twice the hours- helluva bird, ain't they?
>>It flies beautifully and I wasn't slowed down in the building process by
having to redo something that didn't work out to be an improvement after all.=A0
Ditto on both counts, and I spent a TON of time on mods & redos. (3000 hrs
to first flight, over 4000 & counting to date, but hey- it was a SLO build
without all them holes already installed!) But if something didn't work out, you
can bet it was redone! Probably spent 2-300 hours just making my steps
retract, with no ill effects to airframe, safety or performance, but VERY
"educational & recreational" and entertaining to boot! 8-)
>>If you read and study the plans thoroughly before cutting, pounding,
bending, or riveting; get the firewall forward kit and don't pick some weird
powerplant, you'll save time (and money) in the long run and go flying sooner with
far fewer headaches and discouragements.
Couldn't agree more! (except the part about the FWF kit) But if someone
decided they liked a throttle quadrant on the side of a -7 (ala Checkoway) and
it
worked for him, would you call this "reengineering" or just making an
intelligent decision to satisfy a personal preference?
VERY respectfully-
Mark Phillips - Columbia, TN
N51PW & do not archive
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Fly-In Saturday Aug20 Polson, MT 8S1 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
Join us for our 7th Annual Polson Fly-in. Numerous experimentals, antiques
and other planes. Breakfast begins at 0800 and is free for pilots. Plan to
spend the whole day.....and join us for our famous 'pitchfork fondue'
evening meal to be followed by our Soroptomist Wine Tasting Festival.....all
at the Polson airport. Camping and shower on field...great motels nearby.
If you need further information, call me on my cell 406-249-0835. THANKS!
Tony Marshall
RV6 (and loving every single flying minute)
Polson, MT
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Chuck,
I'm very glad you posted your experience. I hadn't realized that AFP
sold nozzles that were compatible with Bendix FI systems. I've got a
Bendix FI system, and I'm glad there is another option than GAMI in
case I want to fine tune it. I'm not yet flying, but I plan to check
the curve of EGT vs fuel flow for each cylinder eventually.
How much did it cost to switch to the AFP nozzles? Are they pretty
much a bolt-in replacement, or did you have to make any changes to
the lines to the nozzles, etc?
Thanks,
Kevin Horton
On 19 Aug 2005, at 13:47, Chuck Jensen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Kevin,
>
> You're exactly correct in that such a side by side comparison is rife
> with subjective, qualitative assessments. What I can tell you is
> after
> Air Flow did injector balancing on a Bendix FI system, that the fuel
> flow for the same power was 0.5 gph less, the peak EGT spread was
> reduced to 0.3 gph from 1.5 gph (quantitative/factual) and the engine
> ran markedly smoother through all power regimes
> (qualitative/subjective).
>
> A before-after is quite easy to compare. A side by side between two
> different systems is significantly more difficult. I don't know if an
> Air Flow FI is better than a Bendix FI, but I know an Air Flow
> injector
> tuning took 1 year and several hundred dollars less than GAMI, which
> never got there. So...
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
This should one of the preflight checks to be sure the lead weights on each
side is solidly in place.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up It Flies
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Skylor Piper" <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA
> --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
> Am I the only one who is scared to death by the
> washer/bolt idea shown below? If that bolt backs out
> in flight, it will lead to a locked elevator! In my
> opinion, that thing absolutely needs to be safety
> wired!
>
> Skylor
> RV-8 QB
> Under Construction
>
> --- Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com> wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver
>> <brad@rv7factory.com>
>>
>> Yes, exactly!!!
>>
>> I thought I was being clever... guess not. ;-)
>>
>>
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Shaping the elevator counter
>> weights
>> > From: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR
>> <Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil>
>> > Date: Thu, August 18, 2005 11:22 am
>> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt
>> AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>> >
>> > Brad -
>> > Like this?
>> >
>>
> http://www.appaero.com/Pictures/Emp%20Pics/Elev%20Pics/MoreWeight.JPG
>> >
>> >
>>
> http://www.appaero.com/Pictures/Emp%20Pics/Elev%20Pics/CBalance.JPG
>> >
>> > Neal
>> > RV-7 N8ZG (Center Fuselage)
>> > RV-8 N998GM (Skinning Wings)
>> >
>> > Do Not Archive
>> >
>> > What if... and I am just thinking out loud here...
>> before installing the
>> > tip, you install a nutplate on the forward tooling
>> hole (on the ribs)?
>> > This would give you a place to bolt additional
>> weight if needed down
>> > the road (after paint). My only concern there
>> would be the potential
>> > that the screw would back out even though it is in
>> a nutplate, and the
>> > weight would come loose, but I guess a good amount
>> of loctite might
>> > mitigate the chances of that happening?
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Brad
>> > RV-7 Livermore, CA
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Shaping the elevator counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Hey Mickey -
I hit your site and looked at your emp pages trying to better understand the
question. Do you propose wrapping the forward end of the counterbalance
skin/fiberglass tip in a few layers of glass and relieving the aft end of
the HS skin flange/fiberglass tip to provide the needed clearance?
Seems like it would work. Given the differences in flexibility and
expansion coefficients, in a lamination of this sort will West 105/205 stay
stuck to the aluminum over the long haul? (I don't know - I have no
experience to support or refute.)
I'm not exactly surrounded by RVs here in the bowels of Alabama, but the few
that I've been able to give more than a passing glance have had a common
problem. If the counterbalance tips are pop-riveted and then
glassed/bondoed/filled smooth, cracks develop along the joint line where the
fiberglass tip meets the aluminum skin.
The two that I have been able to go look at when I get stumped (old-style
-8A and -6A) have riveted tips and un-filled joints.
Errors or shortcomings in the application? Wrong product? Maybe. I'm not
a glass wizard, and it seemed easier to avoid than prevent. And I wanted
the tips removable. So I chose to attach the tips with screws and stop the
bondo at the joint line.
neal
RV-7 N8ZG (71771, center fuse)
RV-8 N998GM (85224, skinning wings)
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Neal,
Quick question on the elevator lead - I was thinking of just
cutting more space on the HS and then building up using
fiberglass over the lead counterweight to make it smooth.
Does this seem like it would work ok?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
Message 33
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| Subject: | Visit to Airflow Performance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Kevin,
Since I had a mixed bag of injectors and had no way of knowing what they
were doing, we started out with a new set of his injectors ($16/ea--very
fair price). The injectors are an exact swap out. The fuel line and
nut attaches right to the new injector.
Thereafter, you only have to swap out the restrictors that are precisely
sized and slide right into the injector body. Swapping out restrictors
is a LOT faster than changing injectors when the engine is hot. After
completing a test flight, a fan blowing on the engine will cool the fuel
line nut enough to remove it bare handed after a few minutes. If you
are changing out the whole injector, they'll stay hot until the whole
engine cools down.
The cost of the restrictors, no matter how many you test and swap out,
is built into the $300 tuning fee. Air Flow even sent one of their
fellows along on the flight and he logged all the numbers as I read them
out--not an inconsequential convenience.
My only complaints; the hangar wasn't air conditioned and there were no
dancing girls. Everything else was top notch.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Visit to Airflow Performance
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Chuck,
I'm very glad you posted your experience. I hadn't realized that AFP
sold nozzles that were compatible with Bendix FI systems. I've got a
Bendix FI system, and I'm glad there is another option than GAMI in
case I want to fine tune it. I'm not yet flying, but I plan to check
the curve of EGT vs fuel flow for each cylinder eventually.
How much did it cost to switch to the AFP nozzles? Are they pretty
much a bolt-in replacement, or did you have to make any changes to
the lines to the nozzles, etc?
Thanks,
Kevin Horton
On 19 Aug 2005, at 13:47, Chuck Jensen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Kevin,
>
> You're exactly correct in that such a side by side comparison is rife
> with subjective, qualitative assessments. What I can tell you is
> after
> Air Flow did injector balancing on a Bendix FI system, that the fuel
> flow for the same power was 0.5 gph less, the peak EGT spread was
> reduced to 0.3 gph from 1.5 gph (quantitative/factual) and the engine
> ran markedly smoother through all power regimes
> (qualitative/subjective).
>
> A before-after is quite easy to compare. A side by side between two
> different systems is significantly more difficult. I don't know if an
> Air Flow FI is better than a Bendix FI, but I know an Air Flow
> injector
> tuning took 1 year and several hundred dollars less than GAMI, which
> never got there. So...
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Mixture cable too short? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
After talking to Van's (Bruce, if I remember correctly) he told me that this
is "normal " for the cables provided with the FWF kit. He said to "adjust
the mixture to just reach the idle cutoff stop and accept whatever you get
at the rich end."
My fix was to do as he described, but first I drilled a new hole above the
old on the mixture lever, (further away from the pivot point) giving me more
cable travel per any given lever input. The end result is the ability to
reach the idle stop on the Carb. without running out of quadrant travel, and
falling just short (about 1/8 inch) from the full rich stop, also without
running out of quadrant travel.
The problem seems to be two fold. First, the cable just does not have the
length of travel to go stop to stop. The second is the quadrant. (Van's
deluxe) I needed to modify it as noted above to accomplish the necessary
amount of travel there.
Thanks to those who responded. This list is such a great resource.
I wanted to post this and get it into the archives so others my benefit in
the future.
Steve Struyk
RV-8, N842S
St. Charles, MO
Getting close!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture cable too short?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> It would be helpful to know whether it was the cable or the quadrant
> that is causing the problem. If it's the cable then you would need a
> shorter mixture arm on the carb / FI servo. If it's the quadrant then
> simply move the attach point further out (away from the rotation axis).
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
> George Inman wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "George Inman" <ghinman@mts.net>
>>
>>I started the engine yesterday for the first time. Big event, and it went
>>pretty
>>well. I knew before the start that my mixture arm was not quite making it
>>to
>>the idle cutoff stop but that was a compromise I had to make in order to
>>reach
>>the full rich stop. I would say the idle stop was short by about 1/8 inch,
>>just
>>enough to cause the engine to continue to run with the mixture lever off.
>>Prior to the start, and months ago while rigging the control cables I
>>spent hours
>>trying to adjust the cable/rod ends to achieve full travel to both stops
>>but
>>in the end had to compromise. It appears that the cable, or maybe the
>>quadrant,
>>does not have enough travel to accomplish both.
>>
>>I've been in the archives and have seen similar problems but no clues as
>>to the
>>fix. My thoughts are to perhaps move the attach point up on the mixture
>>lever
>>(Van's deluxe quadrant, and Cable too), thus providing more travel for any
>>given
>>lever movement and hopefully attain the little extra needed to hit both
>>stops.
>>I realize this fix will only work if the quadrant is the problem. But what
>>if it's the cable that does not have the necessary travel?
>>
>>Your thoughts, comments, and suggestions please.
>>
>>Steve Struyk
>>RV-8, N842S
>>
>>
>> Steve
>> I have the same problem with
>>my RV-8 with bendix fuel inj. In my case it is
>>the cables I got from Van's.they have only 2"
>>throw.Not enough for the throttle and just barely
>>enough for the mixture
>> The quadrant has a bit more than 2" throw
>>I think I might move the attach point up a bit
>>on the throttle arm.
>>
>>George Inman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
Hey all... I have discounted the price on my GRT Dual Display EFIS...
If you're interested check out the details and photos on my web site...
http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm
Thanks... -Bill
do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Shaping the elevator counter weights: BAD IDEA |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Glad to hear about change!
do not archive
--- George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR
<Neal.George@maxwell.af.mil> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt
> AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Good eye Skylor -
>
> In the text on the web site, you'll read that I
> wasn't satisfied with the
> first draft and opted to move the bolt and weights
> to the outboard side of
> the counterbalance rib. Though not specifically
> mentioned, it will also get
> safety wire.
>
> Brad and I have been discussing this very topic
> off-list.
>
> Full page view here:
> http://www.appaero.com/emp_fiberlass.htm
>
> Neal --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper
> <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
> >
> Am I the only one who is scared to death by the
> washer/bolt idea shown below? If that bolt backs
> out
> in flight, it will lead to a locked elevator! In my
> opinion, that thing absolutely needs to be safety
> wired!
>
> Skylor
> RV-8 QB
> Under Construction
> <
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/19 2:42, Bill VonDane wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
>
> Hey all... I have discounted the price on my GRT Dual Display EFIS...
>
> If you're interested check out the details and photos on my web site...
>
> http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm
Why are you selling?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I have been asked to find out where those of you financing your planes have
gotten your loans.
Thanks
John
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Let me clarify, I'm not taking a survey. A friend wants to finance a small
portion of his aircraft purchase and is looking for a recommendation on
financing.
Thanks
John
Message 40
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| Subject: | 2005 Twin Cities fly-in/camp-in |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Mark your calendars for September 10th, 2005! The Minnesota Wing is hosting
a flyin/campin at a beautiful private strip just east of the Minneapolis St.
Paul area. See:
http://www.mnwing.org/Picnic.htm
For details.
Hope to see you all there!
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Hi -
I did an article on financing homebuilt aircraft (and a follow-up on S-LSA)
in Kiplanes magazine (might be in the October 2004 issue).
Two companies that handle RVs are: NAFCO (www.airloans.com) and First
Pryority Bank in Oklahoma - don't have their contact info, but they're
searchable on Google. There are some newer entries into the field for
homebuilts that had booths at OSH as well, but I don't have their info
offhand. I can list them later on this evening.
best, Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Furey
Subject: RV-List: Loans
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
I have been asked to find out where those of you financing your planes have
gotten your loans.
Thanks
John
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
I decided to install the Blue Mountain Sport...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter@tondu.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: New Grand Rapids Dual Display EFIS For Sale
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/19 2:42, Bill VonDane wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
>
> Hey all... I have discounted the price on my GRT Dual Display EFIS...
>
> If you're interested check out the details and photos on my web site...
>
> http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm
Why are you selling?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/19 5:26, John Furey wrote:
> I have been asked to find out where those of you financing your planes have
> gotten your loans.
If it was the IRS, don't forward this info. Otherwise, see entry
dated 1/13/04 on
http://www.rv7-a.com/avionics.htm
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying, HA!
Message 44
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| Subject: | circuit breaker installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: <n1cxo320@peoplepc.com>
I was asked if it made any difference which way a circuit breaker was
installed in an RV, e.i., load/source reversed. My breakers are labeled that
way, and that's how I wired mine, but I expect that it would not make any
difference in the operation of the breaker. Does anyone have any
authoritative information?
John
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
I want this archived.
As a FLIGHT LEAD, I WILL NOT fly with someone on my wing that has a vernier
throttle.
What Mike Stewart said about vernier throttles stands. NO VERNIER
THROTTLES!!!
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,749 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Precise yes, but not quick enough a response when in very close proximity of
another A/C.
------- insert --------
the line that was here was removed.
------- end insert -------
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
If you want precise movements that is what a vernier allows. Seems silly
to me so I just won't go.
Ron Lee
At 08:17 AM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>I made a little clip which holds the pushbutton in on the vernier
throttle.
>It is easy to manually hold the button in for a few minutes with the
palm of
>the hand, but it gets tiring after 20 minutes or so. Another thing which
I
>deem essential for a center throttle and formation flying is an armrest
for
>the throttle arm. Very precise movements are possible with the throttle
>knob in the hand and a finger against the panel.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> > --> <mstewart@iss.net>
> >
> > That's correct Ron.
> > They do not allow for the speed and precision required to be
> > a safe and proficient formation pilot.
> > Mike
> > Do not archive.
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> >
> > I read that planes with vernier throttles are not allowed.
> >
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Ron Lee
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Photo for presentation |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Well I don't think it is an illusion as described in the web page.
>I read through all the Hering stuff, including all the secondary pages
>and it was a very interesting read. By the time I got done with all
>those effects I now wonder if everything I see is an illusion:)
>
>My wife Michelle took that picture from the beach. While our group from
>the Turks and Caicos trip last year (flight of 15 RV's) were sprawled
>out on the deck ducking Jimmy Backer and myself buzzing them and tearing
>the place up and having a ball. My wife, call sign 'Photo', had the
>presence of mind to take the shot and risk life and limb. It is one of
>my all time favorites. You might also look closely and see the ailerons
>are neutral, stick is neutral in my lap and I don't have inverted oil.
>So all you geniuses... How can that be?
>
>Answer later:)
>
>Mike
>Do not archive
>S8 first flight tomorrow if all the planets line up. Yipee!
>
top of a loop?
Charlie
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Photo for presentation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
Speaking of photos... I could use some flying photos of RV's for my new web
site(s)... If you want to contribute please drop me a line...
-Bill
bill@vondane.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
www.creativair.com
do not archive
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Abilene Formation Clinic, 23-25 Sep |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>It's more of a speed thing then precision... You need to be able to make
>changes to the throttle, large or small, without any obstruction or delay...
Thanks for the inputs. I know now that there is a way to override the vernier
function...unless some think that is unsafe.
That formation clinic sounds like a great opportunity for those who attend.
I should probably concentrate on finishing my instrument rating first anyway.
Ya'll have fun and get some pretty pictures of your graduating formation.
Ron Lee
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Shaping the elevator counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Neal,
Thanks for the info. I have not updated any of the pages on my
tail kit for a long while - I'm just now digging it out again
now that I'm trying to wrap things up.
I agree completely with you on using glass to "seal" the
tips. I think this is a bad idea. I saw this on another
builder's site, and it seemed like a good intro to glass
at the time. Too bad I can't undo it, so I kind of need
to make it work.
About the lead counterweights, I think you understand
exactly what I'm trying to do, based on your text
below.
Thanks again,
Mickey
George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Hey Mickey -
> I hit your site and looked at your emp pages trying to better understand the
> question. Do you propose wrapping the forward end of the counterbalance
> skin/fiberglass tip in a few layers of glass and relieving the aft end of
> the HS skin flange/fiberglass tip to provide the needed clearance?
>
> Seems like it would work. Given the differences in flexibility and
> expansion coefficients, in a lamination of this sort will West 105/205 stay
> stuck to the aluminum over the long haul? (I don't know - I have no
> experience to support or refute.)
>
> I'm not exactly surrounded by RVs here in the bowels of Alabama, but the few
> that I've been able to give more than a passing glance have had a common
> problem. If the counterbalance tips are pop-riveted and then
> glassed/bondoed/filled smooth, cracks develop along the joint line where the
> fiberglass tip meets the aluminum skin.
>
> The two that I have been able to go look at when I get stumped (old-style
> -8A and -6A) have riveted tips and un-filled joints.
>
> Errors or shortcomings in the application? Wrong product? Maybe. I'm not
> a glass wizard, and it seemed easier to avoid than prevent. And I wanted
> the tips removable. So I chose to attach the tips with screws and stop the
> bondo at the joint line.
>
>
> neal
> RV-7 N8ZG (71771, center fuse)
> RV-8 N998GM (85224, skinning wings)
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Neal,
>
>
> Quick question on the elevator lead - I was thinking of just
> cutting more space on the HS and then building up using
> fiberglass over the lead counterweight to make it smooth.
> Does this seem like it would work ok?
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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