Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Jim Oke)
2. 12:41 AM - Checklists, was: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Kevin Horton)
3. 12:46 AM - Re: Checklists, was: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Kevin Horton)
4. 04:07 AM - silicone or proseal release agent (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
5. 05:42 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (David Burton)
6. 06:08 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Bob Collins)
7. 06:10 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
8. 06:48 AM - Re: Checklists, was: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Doug Rozendaal)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Dale Ensing)
10. 07:32 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Larry Bowen)
11. 07:33 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Steve Eberhart)
12. 07:43 AM - Re: RV-8 Canopy Skirt (Crosley, Rich)
13. 08:50 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Walter Tondu)
14. 08:52 AM - Heating and Shaping Fiberglass ()
15. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Re: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab ()
16. 09:08 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (SCOTT SPENCER)
17. 09:17 AM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Dan Checkoway)
18. 09:41 AM - Battery charge (bertrv6@highstream.net)
19. 10:00 AM - Slick mag wiring (Doug Weiler)
20. 12:02 PM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? ()
21. 12:11 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (linn walters)
22. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
23. 12:53 PM - RV-4 Checklist (Robin Marks)
24. 01:01 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (GMC)
25. 01:29 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Dale Ensing)
26. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (flynlow)
27. 01:36 PM - Re: Battery charge (AYRES, JIMMY L)
28. 01:54 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Walter Tondu)
29. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Rob Prior (rv7))
30. 02:20 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Steve Eberhart)
31. 02:56 PM - Re:Battery charge (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
32. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Doug Rozendaal)
33. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
34. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Rob Prior (rv7))
35. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
36. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Ron Lee)
37. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Ron Lee)
38. 04:59 PM - Re: RV-4 Checklist (Ron Lee)
39. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
40. 05:11 PM - Re: Battery charge (Bill Dube)
41. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
42. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Rob Prior (rv7))
43. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (cecilth@juno.com)
44. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Rob Prior (rv7))
45. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Bob Collins)
46. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Bob Collins)
47. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Bob Collins)
48. 06:44 PM - Bellcrank washers (Bob Collins)
49. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (gert)
50. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Bob Perkinson)
51. 08:52 PM - Re: silicone or proseal release agent (Vanremog@aol.com)
52. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Jerry Springer)
53. 10:20 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Marty)
54. 11:06 PM - Re: Bellcrank washers (Jim Jewell)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
The aircraft involved was a DHC-4 Caribou. See
http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Transport/269Tp55.htm for more details. The
aircraft type saw a fair bit of use by the Australian Air Force and the US
Army (in its pre-rotary wing days).
The mishap occurred 27 Aug 1992 at Gimli, Manitoba. The aircraft was
reportedly converted to turbo prop power using PT-6 engines and was on a
test flight by a civil company. See
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1 for a few more
details. I seem to recall that the accident investigation found the flight
control gust locks had not be fully disengaged accounting for the loss of
control on takeoff but I may be wrong on this.
The three crew members on the flight tragically lost their lies in the
clearly unsurvivable crash.
I fly into Gimli occasionally. It is also well known as the place where an
Air Canada 767 which ran out of fuel due to a fuelling error made a
successful power off landing - becoming known as the Gimli Glider in the
process.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A C-GKGZ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: August 29, 2005 11:44 PM
> To: dralle@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the
> crash? Almost looks like an RC model especially given the
> cameraman's rather unemotional comment following the crash.
> Kind of looks like the elevator may have been hooked up
> backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com
> Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products
> For Aircraft
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 30 Aug 2005, at 24:44, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
This looks like a video of the crash of the DHC-4T prototype. As I
recall, the control locks were inadvertently left connected.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1
The turbine conversion program languished following the accident, but
it was eventually resurrected:
http://www.penturbo.com/
http://oc-kahuna.com/Turbo.html
To bring this back to RVs - a lot of accidents have been caused by
crews not following checklists. This accident would have been
prevented if the crew had done a flight control check before take-
off. It is easy to get distracted during flight testing and either
forget to do checklists, or miss items in the checklist.
Slow down and take the time to methodically use a checklist. The
life you save may be your own.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 30 Aug 2005, at 03:35, Kevin Horton wrote:
> On 30 Aug 2005, at 24:44, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>>
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash?
>> Almost
>> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
>> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
>> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>>
>> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>>
>> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>>
>>
>
> This looks like a video of the crash of the DHC-4T prototype. As I
> recall, the control locks were inadvertently left connected.
>
> http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1
>
> The turbine conversion program languished following the accident,
> but it was eventually resurrected:
>
> http://www.penturbo.com/
> http://oc-kahuna.com/Turbo.html
>
> To bring this back to RVs - a lot of accidents have been caused by
> crews not following checklists. This accident would have been
> prevented if the crew had done a flight control check before take-
> off. It is easy to get distracted during flight testing and either
> forget to do checklists, or miss items in the checklist.
>
> Slow down and take the time to methodically use a checklist. The
> life you save may be your own.
>
Of course I found a good description of the accident 30 seconds after
sending the original message. It is the last accident described in
the following document, and the part of interest starts about half-
way through.
http://www.asasi.org/papers/2001/Four%20Unrelated%20Accidents.pdf
do not archive
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I have some access panels that I would like to seal up. 2 fwd of the
windscreen on an RV-8.
I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
a release agent for silicone.
The archives did not help and actually frustrated me more reading all
the junk that people archive.
Gone are the days where a quick search gets you the answers you need.
Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
Thanks
Mike
Do not archive
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Hi Mike,
If you remember, Dan used Teflon tape on his...
http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
The thing looks like a Flight Simulator rendering when it passes. Note that
the turning propellors don't have a "strobe effect" as you'd normally see
with filmed images of a propellor.
Then the "coincidental" moving of the camera from the debris...tot eh
ground..and then back to the scene to capture the flaming wreckage seems
odd.
And then wehen you look at the "flaming wreckage," there are no airplane
parts outside of the burning ring of fire. In fact, the area outside of the
ring is spotless...manicured almost.
Notice also the perfect circular fashion of the fire itself. Almost as if
someone had taken gasoline and made a ring around a predetermined area.
Fake.
Bob
St. Paul
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost looks
like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather unemotional comment
following the crash. Kind of looks like the elevator may have been hooked
up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Problem is that this solution only works on smooth surfaces.
My access panels have dimples and screws and I need something that can
follow tight contours of screws and dimples.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: David Burton [mailto:dburton@nwlink.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: silicone or proseal release agent
Hi Mike,
If you remember, Dan used Teflon tape on his...
http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Kevin Horton wrote:
Snip
> Of course I found a good description of the accident 30 seconds after
> sending the original message. It is the last accident described in
> the following document, and the part of interest starts about half-
> way through.
>
> http://www.asasi.org/papers/2001/Four%20Unrelated%20Accidents.pdf
>
> do not archive
>
There were some other good accident stories there. My favorite was the
airplane that was shooting a single engine landing and a gear light did not
come on. Recycling the gear solved the gear light problem, but that made
them high on an approach which meant an unsuccessful single-engine go-around
at night in the mountains.
How many of us have small seemingly insignifcant maintenace problems that we
defer because we can't, or don't get them fixed. "No big deal" is the
common response, "I know how to deal with it." In this case it was probably
a microswitch slightly out of rig and possibley a known problem that no one
could or did get fixed. These little problems are not a big deal until
something else goes wrong and then they can be the straw that broke the
camels back.
Tailwinds,
Doug
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
a release agent for silicone.
Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
Mike Stuart
Suggested techniques for getting silicone adhesives to release from one of
the surfaces when making silicone sealant formed in place gaskets around
panels
1. Apply the sealant in a nicely formed bead to one surface that is clean
and dry. Allow it to skin over. In the hot humid ATL weather it will not
take long. Then carefully close the panel and allow the silicone sealant
bead to reform to fit the space between the panel and the airplane skin. If
the panel is attached with screws, do not tighten the screws all the way but
allow for a bit of extra thickness that will compress after the sealant has
cured and you later tighten the screws completely.
2. Another method is to use a silicone spray on the surface you want to
release. Follow the steps above but spray a light coating of silicone fluid
on to the surface you want to release. If you need to control the silicone
fluid, a must if you have not yet painted the airplane, spay the fluid onto
a clean cloth and then carefully wipe the fluid on to the surface.
Application hints:
It much easier to get nicely formed beads if you use a caulking gun rather
than a squeeze tube.
Saran Wrap can also be used to prevent adhesion. Just lay a sheet over the
panel opening before you put the panel in place.
If your panels are hinged, there may be a little scuffing of the bead near
the hinge side as you close it. Using the fluid will lubricate the formed in
place gasket and prevent distortion while it cures.
Give the sealant a full 24 hours to cure before opening panel if the beads
are 1/8 inch or less. More for thicher cross sections.
Dale Ensing
retired silicone peddler
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Car wax or Pam cooking spray?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> I have some access panels that I would like to seal up. 2 fwd of the
> windscreen on an RV-8.
>
> I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
> a release agent for silicone.
>
> The archives did not help and actually frustrated me more reading all
> the junk that people archive.
>
> Gone are the days where a quick search gets you the answers you need.
>
>
> Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart <steve@newtech.com>
Dale Ensing wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
[snip]
> 2. Another method is to use a silicone spray on the surface you want to
> release. Follow the steps above but spray a light coating of silicone fluid
> on to the surface you want to release. If you need to control the silicone
> fluid, a must if you have not yet painted the airplane, spay the fluid onto
> a clean cloth and then carefully wipe the fluid on to the surface.
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
good paint job on those parts.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A - fuselage scheduled for Oct delivery
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Canopy Skirt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
The canopy skirt on the "8" is a pain. I fit mine the best I could and then
started cutting. I used a 2" cutting wheel in a die grinder and spilt the
skirt in two at the back and horizontally near the top in the radius area
forward about two feet from the rear. I also had to cut vertically at the
bottom of the curve where it starts the straight bottom edge going forward.
Basically you cleco it down where it fits and cut where you have to get the
best fit. Put wax paper against the fuselage and using fiberglass paste it
back together while taping it against the fuselage, then, when setup,
fiberglass the back side. Then sand and file and sand and fill and grind
and sand and when you fly your wife will still complain about cold air
coming forward from the back. Give her a towel to put back there to stop it
and do a roll, it won't stop the air coming in, the towel does that, but
you'll feel better. The cold air doesn't get up to you anyway.
Rich Crosley
N948RC RV-8 80 hours
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/30 7:00, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> I have some access panels that I would like to seal up. 2 fwd of the
> windscreen on an RV-8.
>
> I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
> a release agent for silicone.
>
> The archives did not help and actually frustrated me more reading all
> the junk that people archive.
>
> Gone are the days where a quick search gets you the answers you need.
>
>
> Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
I used saran wrap with great success. I placed the sw around the
covers and screwed them into place.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Heating and Shaping Fiberglass |
--> RV-List message posted by: <flyingrv@cox.net>
Hi Mickey,
Thanks for your question on this matter. I've put together my thoughts from years
of experience.
Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc bob@fairings-etc.com
Heating and Shaping Fiberglass
OK Gang, heres the deal on heating and shaping fiberglass. This is always
true with ester resins (more or less) and somewhat true with epoxy (most of
the time.)
When resins harden they form a molecular, 3 dimensional fishnet looking
structure. This fishnet is wrapped, wound, in, over and throughout the fiberglass
strands.
The fiberglass strands are about the same as the window you are gazing
out of wondering why you are reading this. Chemically there are differences,
but I dont have a clue just how that works.
If you got way down in the strands you would find teeny tiny fibers that
look like a barb wire fence made by a guy that went insane putting the barbs
on.
When you heat this thing up, the molecular bonds weaken in the fishnet
and as you bend/reshape the part the fishnet tears apart and the fibers in the
glass break because they cannot slide past each other like they could when the
resin was a fluid.
If you have been following along here, you can see that you just broke
the part. You probably cant see it because its more or less on the molecular
level, but it is broken.
Now the question is are you ever going to care. If it is a no or low stress
area it probably isnt going to cause a problem. If its a stressed or vibrated
area it will crack after you put that 1OK paint job on.
Epoxy is a little different deal, sometimes and sort of. It is more a
temperature cure where -ester resin is more related to time. Most -ester laminates
will be cured in 24 to 72 hours. The epoxy we use will be hard when it
has been to 150 to 175 degrees F. What this says is, if you make a part and it
has been to, say 80 degrees you can heat it to 120 degrees and reform it some.
The resin will reharden but the glass strands my not like it much.
Now experts and engineers dont argue with me! Im old, crotchety, and dont
want to be confused by facts. Nevertheless, do feel free to add your thinking
to the discussion.
>
> From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 01:30:13 EDT
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> What should we not do with a heat gun? I'm close to fitting my
> fairings, and I was about to attack it with a heat gun!
>
> Mickey
>
> > Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
> > appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
> > consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
> > what not to do with a heat gun!
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Dave Burton
> > RV6
> >
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab |
--> RV-List message posted by: <flyingrv@cox.net>
> Dave,
Thanks for coming to the seminar. Arlington is my old stomping grounds and I always
like to go back for a visit.
Glad you felt seminar was of value to you.
Bob Snedaker
Fairings-Etc
> From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> Date: 2005/08/23 Tue PM 11:07:28 EDT
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
> appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
> consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
> what not to do with a heat gun!
>
> Thanks again,
> Dave Burton
> RV6
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <flyingrv@cox.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <flyingrv@cox.net>
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > Thanks for passing on the location of my web site: www.fairings-etc.com.
> >
> > Bob
> > Fairings-Etc
> > bob@fairings-etc.com
> > >
> > > From: alan@reichertech.com
> > > Date: 2005/08/21 Sun PM 01:11:45 EDT
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com
> > >
> > > http://www.fairings-etc.com
> > >
> > > - Alan
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Gang,
> > >
> > > Exactly where is the "fairings-etc" website referenced below?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pedro
> > >
> > > RV-4 N562PW
> > >
> > > << Alternately, I've looked at the fairings-etc site. From the pics, it
> > > looks
> > > like they have their own mounting screw locations, so these 10 places
> > > aren't even
> > > being used, correct?>>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alan Reichert
> > > Priv, Inst, SEL
> > > RV-8 N927AR (reserved)
> > > Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
Got your answer Matt. Asked our resident airline/airplane/aviation trivia guru,
and this is his reply and my reply to him...
Scott
N4ZW RV-4
>>>Some guys on the RV list thought it was a computer spoof/simulation or R/C model
-I (strongly) didn't think so... too real in too many ways. I did notice
no control deflection... thought control lock might be it... or I thought mabye
C/G. Interesting. Explains guy's comments too -although he seems more disappointed
that the hard work is down the drain than that someone died.
Zachary Grant <l1011jock@sbcglobal.net> wrote: This was a test flight of the turbine
conversion for the DHC Buffalo that somebody was working on. The control
lock was still found engaged in the wreckage. Continuous pitch up with accelleration,
Classic VMC roll to the right, crash. If you look real close there
is no noticable control deflection.
-Zach
SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
any idea what happened here?
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Mike,
Look more closely. My access panels have dimples and screws. The tape
follows the contour when screwed down.
http://www.rvproject.com/20040211.html
http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
Not a single drop leaks through here. Much thanks to Tom Emery.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: silicone or proseal release agent
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Problem is that this solution only works on smooth surfaces.
> My access panels have dimples and screws and I need something that can
> follow tight contours of screws and dimples.
> Mike
> Do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Burton [mailto:dburton@nwlink.com]
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: silicone or proseal release agent
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> If you remember, Dan used Teflon tape on his...
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
I have to charge the battery on my rv6a. it is a RG25xc Concord...
this is the first time for me on this.
Best way to do this, what type of charger, I mean, is best to charge
6amps, or 10 amps..or...
I was reading recently, on one of the aviation magazines, that you cannot
or should not use auto charger, for our batteries...then what...
Would like to hear the comments on this, hope with true experience...
I have not called Concord, Home Office as yet....
I have not flown, for the past three months...why the battery is now 9Volts?
A car battery last forever in comparisson.. no? my car was in the garage
for 2 1/2 yrs. and the battery started right way, after the car was fixed...
Thanks
Bert
rv6a
Do Not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Slick mag wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@mnwing.org>
Here is probably a dumb question.
I have Slick 4370 mags on my Aerosport 0-360-A1A on my RV-4. I am doing the
annual and after flying this airplane for 2 years I wonder whether I have
the P-lead/ground wiring correct (now it has been running OK all this time).
On this mag, right next to the P lead terminal is a screw to which I have
attached the shield of my wires going to the ignition switches. BUT.. next
to this location is a tapped hole marked GRD. Should I have the shield wire
connected here? Or does it matter??
Doug Weiler
RV-4
Hudson, WI
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Dear Matt, Mr. Suspicious:
It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in Canada on
date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people died, OK.
Time: 10:31:05 PM PST US
Subject: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
From: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Looks to me like a CG (Computer Graphics) event. I have no idea what
type of plane this is but of you pause the player to take a close look
at the plane it is just too smooth, no windows, no doors, nothing looks
right (to me). If you also notice right at impact the POV camera drops
down and then returns to the crash where there is fire. From my limited
experience it is much easier to place the "fire" plugin's in motion vs.
having to start the CG fire from scratch.
Mr. Suspicious
RV-4
200 Hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
---------------------------------
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Why not a few good coats of paste wax??
Linn
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Problem is that this solution only works on smooth surfaces.
>My access panels have dimples and screws and I need something that can
>follow tight contours of screws and dimples.
>Mike
>Do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Burton [mailto:dburton@nwlink.com]
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: silicone or proseal release agent
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>If you remember, Dan used Teflon tape on his...
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
>
>
>
>
--
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
> It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in Canada
on
> date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people died, OK.
You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never seen one
quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost perfectly circular
ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
Given the other artifacts of this film as already outlined, it's hard to conclude
it's real, especially since they haven't been explained by anyone who insists
it's real. There's no way -- no way -- the movement of the propellors, for
example, is captured perfectly and smoothly by the video camera.
Look inside the cockpit when the plane goes by. It's daylight. You should be able
to see the light out the windshield. You don't.
Do you see any exhaust coming out the back of the engines? Nope.
I'm sure there really was an accident on this day and it may well be the one that
has been claimed. But it's unlikely this is the video of it.
Do not archive
It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in Canada
on
date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people died, OK.
You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never seen one
quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost perfectly circular
ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
Given the other artifacts of this film as already outlined, it's hard to conclude
it's real, especially since they haven't been explained by anyone who insists
it's real. There's no way -- no way -- the movement of the propellors, for
example, is captured perfectly and smoothly by the video camera.
Look inside the cockpit when the plane goes by. It's daylight. You should be able
to see the light out the windshield. You don't.
Do you see any exhaust coming out the back of the engines? Nope.
I'm sure there really was an accident on this day and it may well be the one that
has been claimed. But it's unlikely this is the video of it.
Do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Does anyone have a -4 check list handy? I am creating one from scratch
and am not 100% about some of the speeds etc... Having a guide would
definitely help. Email or Fax would be great.
Thanks,
Robin
RV-4
200 Hours
Robin@MrMoisture.com
805-541-9517 Fax
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Silicone does not stick to Saran wrap / Cling wrap and it can be used as
a release agent on one side of the gasket. It's hard to get the cling
wrap positioned without wrinkles.
George in Langley BC
>
>Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) said:
>
>
>>
>>Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
good paint job on those parts.
Steve Eberhart
Steve,
First, it is silicone that you need to worry about. Silicon is no problem.
Even some silicones are paintable.
Second, there are silicone paint additives that you can add to the paint to
over come the low surface tension of the dimethyl silicone which causes the
fisheye type problems. Auto body shops repaint cars all the time that have
been polished with silicone containing products.
Would diffentently not recommend using silicone sprays as release agents for
molding fiberglas parts. The resin will pick up someof the free fluid. But
keeping the silicone totally out of the hangar is not necessary.
If you ever repaint your parts, go to the your paint supplier and purchase a
paint additive. It should cure your painting problem. The paint store can
recommend which additive to use.
Dale Ensing
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "flynlow" <flynlow@usaviator.net>
My two cents:
If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on the
cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right. I do not
see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it is a very large
model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a real aircraft that
crashed in the same manner on the date indicated, however I believe the
video is a fake.
Bud Silvers
Colorado Springs, CO
Worken on an 8.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Dear Matt, Mr. Suspicious:
It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in
Canada on date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people
died, OK.
Time: 10:31:05 PM PST US
Subject: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
From: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Looks to me like a CG (Computer Graphics) event. I have no idea what
type of plane this is but of you pause the player to take a close look
at the plane it is just too smooth, no windows, no doors, nothing
looks
right (to me). If you also notice right at impact the POV camera drops
down and then returns to the crash where there is fire. From my
limited
experience it is much easier to place the "fire" plugin's in motion
vs.
having to start the CG fire from scratch.
Mr. Suspicious
RV-4
200 Hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
---------------------------------
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES@entergy.com>
I'm just a lowly electrical engineer and certainly not a battery expert but here
is my opinion: The car battery chargers that I have seen put out around 14
VDC (about the same as your alternator). Your alternator has much more current
capacity than your typical 6/10 amp charger. I have charged my aircraft battery
many times with a standard Walmart charger and have never had any problems.
If there is a concern for overheating the battery with a high capacity charger,
you may want to use a lower capacity charger like a 2 amp. I would use
one that has a trickle charge feature or one that stops charging after the charging
current reduces a certain level to indicate that the battery is charged.
As far as you car battery lasting longer than you aircraft battery - I don't
know about that. I have had to replace many car batteries over the years. Extreme
temperatures are really tough on a battery. Car batteries are larger in
current capacity so it stands to reason that they !
are not being cycled as deep or worked as hard, which may explain car batteries
lasting longer. You may want to check and make sure that you don't have any
high resistance paths to ground on your aircraft which will drain your battery
down over time, especially if you don't run it very often. I hope this helps
a little, only my opinions.
Jimmy Ayres
RV7AQB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertrv6@highstream.net
Subject: RV-List: Battery charge
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
I have to charge the battery on my rv6a. it is a RG25xc Concord...
this is the first time for me on this.
Best way to do this, what type of charger, I mean, is best to charge
6amps, or 10 amps..or...
I was reading recently, on one of the aviation magazines, that you cannot
or should not use auto charger, for our batteries...then what...
Would like to hear the comments on this, hope with true experience...
I have not called Concord, Home Office as yet....
I have not flown, for the past three months...why the battery is now 9Volts?
A car battery last forever in comparisson.. no? my car was in the garage
for 2 1/2 yrs. and the battery started right way, after the car was fixed...
Thanks
Bert
rv6a
Do Not archive
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/30 1:02, GMC wrote:
> Silicone does not stick to Saran wrap / Cling wrap and it can be used as
> a release agent on one side of the gasket. It's hard to get the cling
> wrap positioned without wrinkles.
I learned that if I use the "sticky" cling wrap that they sell
now you can get it on the bottom side of the cover plate very
smoothly and it sticks to it so you don't have to worry about
it shifting/bunching.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 13:24:36 2005-08-30 "flynlow" <flynlow@usaviator.net> wrote:
> If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on
> the cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right.
> I do not see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it
> is a very large model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a
> real aircraft that crashed in the same manner on the date indicated,
> however I believe the video is a fake.
The plane:
If you look closely at the video you can see daylight through the cockpit
windows as it passes by the camera. It looks like you might even be able
to make out the pilot for a couple of frames, but i'm not certain of that.
As it lifts off you can see through the fuselage and out the other side
through the side windows. You can also see what looks like a strobe or
beacon on the underside of the fuselage. The gear legs are to scale, and
you can even see the scissors on them.
That's an awful lot of detail to go to to make a model.
Also, an RC model would accelerate faster, and be more jerky in it's
movements, during the takeoff run and what little flight time it had.
The scene:
The perspective from the camera is correct for an average video camera
shooting a Caribou on takeoff. If it were a model filmed to look like it
was real, the perspective wouldn't be right.
If you watch the impact as the airplane hits the ground (just before the
camera drops away from view), you can see a crash and dust cloud that
matches in scale with what you would expect from a large airplane hitting
the ground, not with a model hitting the ground.
The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect from a
large fire, not a burning RC model.
Sorry, but the video is real.
-Rob
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart <steve@newtech.com>
Dale Ensing wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
> silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
> to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
> molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
> good paint job on those parts.
>
> Steve Eberhart
>
> Steve,
> First, it is silicone that you need to worry about. Silicon is no problem.
> Even some silicones are paintable.
> Second, there are silicone paint additives that you can add to the paint to
> over come the low surface tension of the dimethyl silicone which causes the
> fisheye type problems. Auto body shops repaint cars all the time that have
> been polished with silicone containing products.
> Would diffentently not recommend using silicone sprays as release agents for
> molding fiberglas parts. The resin will pick up someof the free fluid. But
> keeping the silicone totally out of the hangar is not necessary.
> If you ever repaint your parts, go to the your paint supplier and purchase a
> paint additive. It should cure your painting problem. The paint store can
> recommend which additive to use.
> Dale Ensing
Thank you.
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Battery charge |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I dumped my gel-cel battery and put in an Odyssey battery to enable a start
EVERY time in my RV-4. The gel-cel would run down if it didn't start in 10
- 12 revolutions. The odyssey has never quit cranking , even while I was
learning hot-start procedures.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
While this real vs fake conversation is interesting, we are missing the
point. Whether the video is real or not is immaterial, those of us who read
the excellent stuff on the link that Kevin Horton posted learned that some
highly experienced pilots with lots of experience climbed in an airplane and
departed with the controls locked. They made a mistake and paid for it with
their lives.
Now the standard pilot response to this and the "Never Again' articles is,
"that guy was an idiot, I am not an idiot, I don't have a problem." Great
theory, but the problem is, highly experienced pilots with good judgement
and skills do idiodic things and get killed in this business with great
regularity.
The point of this is to cause us to pause and think.
Is there anyone on this list with more than 100 hours TT who will swear they
have never taken off with out doing a control check? If there is, I would
like to meet them. We all make mistakes, once in a great while the stars
line up wrong and a small mistake gets us. You say, "forgetting the control
lock is a big mistake." True. But Cockpit Resource Management says that we
acknowledge that we make mistakes and employ procedures to trap those
errors. The real mistake here was the failure to check the control freedom
before take-off. Good CRM or Standard Operating Procedures would have
trapped the error.
Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle hours
thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in our normal
flying and the standard operating procedures that we should use to trap
them? .
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
BTW my vote is real.
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
> Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle hours
> thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in our normal
> flying and the standard operating procedures that we should use to trap
> them? .
Sure. But we weren't asked to do that. We were asked for informationon THIS crash.
> BTW my vote is real.
Any explanation for the rather odd facets of the video?
Do not archive
Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle hours
thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in our normal
flying and the standard operating procedures that we should use to trap
them? .
Sure. But we weren't asked to do that. We were asked for informationon THIS crash.
BTW my vote is real.
Any explanation for the rather odd facets of the video?
Do not archive
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 14:55:12 2005-08-30 "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com> wrote:
> Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle
> hours thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in
> our normal flying and the standard operating procedures that we
> should use to trap them?
Good points, Doug.
I prefer to have redundant checks, to reduce the likelihood that i'll miss
something. To that end, when I first get in the aircraft, before belting
up, I do a control check. Ailerons, elevators, rudder. If something is
amiss, I can get out easily to fix it since i'm not belted up yet.
After my startup and post start-up checks are completed, I do another
controls check to confirm that i'm still free and clear now that the belts
are secure, the engine is running, and i'm ready to move.
Finally, after i've taxiied to my run-up area and completed my run-up, I do
a third check to see that nothing has shaken loose along the way and jammed
something.
I was taught this procedure as part of my PPL, and to the best of my
memory, I have yet to make a flight where I haven't made a full controls
check before takeoff. I know that I have missed one of the three on more
than one flight, and maybe two of the three on a couple of flights.
Two things keep me on my toes in this regard. One, since i'm still
building my RV, I fly a variety of aircraft right now, and i'm not the only
pilot on any of them... So I want to be sure that someone else hasn't left
it with an unmarked snag. Two, i've also read about crashes that could
have been avoided with a pre-flight controls check, most notably an RV that
crashed at the Arlington show a few years ago. Say what you will about
morbid fascinations with accident reports, but I think I learn something
from each one I read.
-Rob
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
> The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect from a
> large fire, not a burning RC model.
the flames are a perfect circle.... They are even throughout the circle...as they
would be if someone had, say, poured gasoline and then lit a mtach. And, again,
there is no debris field outside the fire.
A full loaded airplane would spill fuel everywhere and it wouldn't be in a perfect
pattern and, hence, the fire would not be in such a perfect, circular -- and
more important -- small -- area. While much of the debris of the plane would
be pulverized, much of it would not, and it would hit the ground and bounce...adn
bounce...and bounce...and be scattered everywhere.
This video was created to depict the crash in question. But this is not a video
of THAT crash
And, frankly, it's hardly debateable.
Plane crashes aren't this neat and tidy.
do not archive.
The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect from a
large fire, not a burning RC model.
the flames are a perfect circle.... They are even throughout the circle...as they
would be if someone had, say, poured gasoline and then lit a mtach. And, again,
there is no debris field outside the fire.
A full loaded airplane would spill fuel everywhere and it wouldn't be in a perfect
pattern and, hence, the fire would not be in such a perfect, circular -- and
more important -- small -- area. While much of the debris of the plane would
be pulverized, much of it would not, and it would hit the ground and bounce...adn
bounce...and bounce...and be scattered everywhere.
This video was created to depict the crash in question. But this is not a video
of THAT crash
And, frankly, it's hardly debateable.
Plane crashes aren't this neat and tidy.
do not archive.
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
>seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
>perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
was very small.
Ron Lee
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>Is there anyone on this list with more than 100 hours TT who will swear they
>have never taken off with out doing a control check?
I always do a control check which includes visual verification of the proper
response to control stick/rudder movement.
Ron Lee
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Checklist |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
These sites had RV-6 manuals so finding RV-4 items should be easy:
http://www.vansairforce.org/POH/RV-6_1/poh.html
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~anderson/RV6-POH.html
http://www.vansairforce.org/POH/
Ron Lee
>Does anyone have a -4 check list handy? I am creating one from scratch
>and am not 100% about some of the speeds etc... Having a guide would
>definitely help. Email or Fax would be great.
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
Oh, one other thing. Again, check the props. Video can't shoot props right. I'm
sure you've all seen video of a REAL prop. The frame rate of the camera or film
"freezes" the prop and creates -- momentarily -- a strobe effect.
Push pause at any point in this "film." See the props. They stay the same. Nice
smooth renditions of what a prop would look like on flight simulator. If this
had been actual video, you would be able to get at least one section of the prop
circle that was more defined than another.
You will also note, especially if you freeze the presentation on impact, that the
debris is instantly -- once you get past the convenient shot of the ground...replaced
by the fire, which is already blazing. Moreover, the smoke is already
well into the sky.
Under a typical timetable, you'd have been able to see the top of the smoke cloud.
But you don't, indicating that the fire had been burning longer than the split-second
the video would have you believe..
Do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "flynlow"
>
> My two cents:
>
> If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on the
> cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right. I do not
> see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it is a very large
> model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a real aircraft that
> crashed in the same manner on the date indicated, however I believe the
> video is a fake.
>
Oh, one other thing. Again, check the props. Video can't shoot props right. I'm
sure you've all seen video of a REAL prop. The frame rate of the camera or film
"freezes" the prop and creates -- momentarily -- a strobe effect.
Push pause at any point in this "film." See the props. They stay the same. Nice
smooth renditions of what a prop would look like on flight simulator. If this
had been actual video, you would be able to get at least one section of the prop
circle that was more defined than another.
You will also note, especially if you freeze the presentation on impact, that the
debris is instantly -- once you get past the convenient shot of the ground...replaced
by the fire, which is already blazing. Moreover, the smoke is already
well into the sky.
Under a typical timetable, you'd have been able to see the top of the smoke cloud.
But you don't, indicating that the fire had been burning longer than the split-second
the video would have you believe..
Do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "flynlow" <FLYNLOW@USAVIATOR.NET>
My two cents:
If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on the
cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right. I do not
see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it is a very large
model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a real aircraft that
crashed in the same manner on the date indicated, however I believe the
video is a fake.
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery charge |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
Ouch, 9 volts is VERY discharged. You will need to cycle this
battery a couple of times to get it working correctly.
(I know just a bit about batteries. See http://www.KillaCycle.com)
Lead-acid batteries of all types can be damaged by leaving them
discharged for extended periods. Absorbed glass mat (AGM) lead-acid
batteries are especially sensitive to being left discharged. You probably
have lost some capacity in your battery if you have left it discharged for
awhile.
You need to get a charger that is set up for sealed batteries, NOT
flooded batteries. I have a Sears charger that seems to run the correct AGM
profile when set to "gel cell".
My preferred AGM charger is a 15 volt Toshiba laptop power supply.
(I bought about 100 of them surplus awhile back and I discovered that they
deliver just about the perfect profile for charging AMG batteries.) They
put out just over 15 volts at the end of the charge, which is just about
perfect. The only drawback is that I must remember to disconnect this power
supply not long after the battery charges up. I can't just leave it
connected and forget about it, because it does not drop down to 13.4 volts
when the charge is complete, like a quality automatic charger would.
After you have charged up the battery, run it down to about 11
volts with a landing light or some other modest load. Charge it back up,
discharge it again, then charge it. This should make the battery happy.
Bill Dube'
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
//737 that crashed in Fountain CO
The impact areas usually are very small. But the debris field, while concentrated,
are not necessarily this limited.
This "plane" was not travelling very fast. And as you can see by the video, there
isn't a large crater. In the split second when the cameraman, for some unexplained
reason, takes a shot of the ground (he wasn't running...he didn't appear
to move...he didn't drop the camera), where did all the debris go?
Answer? It was never there in the first place.
Just the fuel alone would "splash" in a crash like that. And it would splash everywhere.
It obviously ignited. But it's impossible to believe that the fuel
was confined to this small an area, that all the debris stopped bouncing, the
flame ignited completely (as opposed to still being in the process of developing),
the smoke plume was fully matured in the approximately 1/4 second we didn't
get to see.
There were, what, 4 propellors (or was it 2?) spinning rapidly at the time of the
crash. Where'd they go?
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee
>
>
> >You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
> >seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
> >perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
>
> If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
> was very small.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
//737 that crashed in Fountain CO
The impact areas usually are very small. But the debris field, while concentrated,
are not necessarily this limited.
This "plane" was not travelling very fast. And as you can see by the video, there
isn't a large crater. In the split second when the cameraman, for some unexplained
reason, takes a shot of the ground (he wasn't running...he didn't appear
to move...he didn't drop the camera), where did all the debris go?
Answer? It was never there in the first place.
Just the fuel alone would "splash" in a crash like that. And it would splash everywhere.
It obviously ignited. But it's impossible to believe that the fuel was
confined to this small an area, that all the debris stopped bouncing, the flame
ignited completely (as opposed to still being in the process of developing),
the smoke plume was fully matured in the approximately 1/4 second we didn't
get to see.
There were, what, 4 propellors (or was it 2?)spinning rapidly at the time of the
crash. Where'd they go?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <RONLEE@PCISYS.NET>
You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
was very small.
Ron Lee
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 16:44:34 2005-08-30 bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net wrote:
> > The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect
> > from a large fire, not a burning RC model.
>
> the flames are a perfect circle.... They are even throughout the
> circle...as they would be if someone had, say, poured gasoline and then
> lit a mtach. And, again, there is no debris field outside the fire.
Interesting. What frame of the video has an overhead view of this fire
showing a perfect circle? I must have missed that. It looks to me like
the flames are just roughly centered on the place where the plane hit,
which is reasonable. I'll give you that the flames appear to be in one
contiguous region, but that isn't very unexpected for a near-vertical
impact.
> A full loaded airplane would spill fuel everywhere and it wouldn't be
> in a perfect pattern and, hence, the fire would not be in such a
> perfect, circular -- and more important -- small -- area. While much
> of the debris of the plane would be pulverized, much of it would not,
> and it would hit the ground and bounce...adn bounce...and bounce...and
> be scattered everywhere.
I would agree except for the fact that the plane hits the ground almost
perfectly vertical. With lateral movement parts could bounce and continue
laterally. But since it hits straight on, it's not surprising that parts
could just bounce in place and stay there. And the plane wasn't fully
loaded, it was the prototype aircraft, on it's first test flight. It's
reasonable to assume that it had only a partial fuel load and no cargo.
> And, frankly, it's hardly debateable.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. This sounds a lot like the debates
about whether the Pentagon was hit with a plane or a missle on 9/11.
> Plane crashes aren't this neat and tidy.
If you have ever seen the footage of the Mig that crashed at the Paris Air
Show many years ago, you would agree that a large aircraft can make a very
small, clean hole. The Mig just disappears into the ground.
> do not archive.
Quite.
-Rob
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com
Do not archive
Now I see how the word got out that Kennedy was shot from more than one
direction.
Cecil
My vote says its real. If it was a model hitting the ground, the right
wing would not have crumpled that way.
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:00:31 -0700 "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca> writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
> On 13:24:36 2005-08-30 "flynlow" <flynlow@usaviator.net> wrote:
> > If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows
> on
> > the cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look
> right.
> > I do not see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe
> it
> > is a very large model and not a real aircraft. There may have been
> a
> > real aircraft that crashed in the same manner on the date
> indicated,
> > however I believe the video is a fake.
>
> The plane:
>
> If you look closely at the video you can see daylight through the
> cockpit
> windows as it passes by the camera. It looks like you might even be
> able
> to make out the pilot for a couple of frames, but i'm not certain of
> that.
> As it lifts off you can see through the fuselage and out the other
> side
> through the side windows. You can also see what looks like a strobe
> or
> beacon on the underside of the fuselage. The gear legs are to
> scale, and
> you can even see the scissors on them.
>
> That's an awful lot of detail to go to to make a model.
>
> Also, an RC model would accelerate faster, and be more jerky in it's
> movements, during the takeoff run and what little flight time it
> had.
>
> The scene:
>
> The perspective from the camera is correct for an average video
> camera
> shooting a Caribou on takeoff. If it were a model filmed to look
> like it
> was real, the perspective wouldn't be right.
>
> If you watch the impact as the airplane hits the ground (just before
> the
> camera drops away from view), you can see a crash and dust cloud
> that
> matches in scale with what you would expect from a large airplane
> hitting
> the ground, not with a model hitting the ground.
>
> The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect from
> a
> large fire, not a burning RC model.
>
> Sorry, but the video is real.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 16:54:28 2005-08-30 bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net wrote:
> If this had been actual video, you would be able to get at
> least one section of the prop circle that was more defined than
> another.
The video of the props as they pass the camera are consistent for an 8mm
film (this flight was being filmed with an 8mm film camera). Which
accounts for the low resolution of the images, and the poor framerate. The
whole airplane is out of focus for most of the flight, it's not surprising
that the props would be too.
> You will also note, especially if you freeze the
> presentation on impact, that the debris is instantly -- once you get
> past the convenient shot of the ground...replaced by the fire, which is
> already blazing. Moreover, the smoke is already well into the sky.
There is a definite cut in time between the camera dropping and then
cutting back to the film of the fire. Would you have been able to stand
there filming continuously? I know I couldn't. Chances are you'd have at
least dropped your arms to your sides in abject horror at what you'd seen.
This cameraman was obviously rooted to the spot, and only after a few
seconds (minutes?) was able to pick the camera up and film some more,
capturing the fire already burning.
Anyway, that's my last post on the topic. If you want to believe it's
fake, then do so and drop it. Listen to Doug's advice instead and focus on
the details of the crash, why it happened, and how future pilots could
avoid it happening to them.
-Rob
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
//The video of the props as they pass the camera are consistent for an 8mm
film (this flight was being filmed with an 8mm film camera). Which accounts
for the low resolution of the images, and the poor framerate. The whole
airplane is out of focus for most of the flight, it's not surprising that
the props would be too.
I didn't find the props out of focus, I found the frame rate inconsistent.
But who filmed this? I'd like to talk to him, cuz that sure doesn't look
like 8 MM film and I'm interested in finding out how he could encode 8mm
film and actually get it this sharp.
//There is a definite cut in time between the camera dropping and then
cutting back to the film of the fire. Would you have been able to stand
there filming continuously? I know I couldn't. Chances are you'd have at
least dropped your arms to your sides in abject horror at what you'd seen.
Yeah, probably right. I probably would've been saying something as it
happened too.
//Anyway, that's my last post on the topic. If you want to believe it's
fake, then do so and drop it. Listen to Doug's advice instead and focus on
the details of the crash, why it happened, and how future pilots could avoid
it happening to them.
We all know how it can be avoided. What's to discuss?
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
//My vote says its real. If it was a model hitting the ground, the right
wing would not have crumpled that way.
It wasn't a model either. It was computer generated.
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
//Interesting. What frame of the video has an overhead view of this fire
showing a perfect circle? I must have missed that. It looks to me like the
flames are just roughly centered on the place where the plane hit, which is
reasonable.
That's the point. It's not reasonable. First of all, it wouldn't be
centered. Look at the video again. Stop it just efore impact. The tip of
right wing hit first, the the nose....then the left wing, indicating -- if
anything -- movement from left to right as you look at the film.
In a crash like that, you'd have cartwheeling of the tail.
But look what "actually" happens to the table. It collapses toward the
photographer, rather than toward the momentumof the plane which was left to
right.
In either one of those, debris should have emanated either to theright of
the nose impact area or forward of the impact area.
As for the fire, you can see it's circular in nature. But note where the
wing hit. See that black line across the runway? (probably a filled-in crack
of some sort). See where the wing strikes? To the left of that line. The
nose strikes right on the line. The other wing to the right of the line. But
the fire is confined to the center and right of that line.
He might very well have been rooted in fear and dropped the camera. But the
"second scene" is shot EXACTLY where he was before he "dropped the camera."
What are the odds of that? And given his rather blaise comments, it doesn't
sound like the guy's heart was racing and the horror he just witnessed. And
yet he didn't make a move in any direction after he dropped the camera?
Nah.
//Funny, I was thinking the same thing. This sounds a lot like the debates
about whether the Pentagon was hit with a plane or a missle on 9/11.
Sorry you feel that way. But again, the evidence that it's a fake is more
real than the evidence it isn't. You've got improper flicker rate o the
props, you've got no exhaust. At :07 you should be able to see light in the
cockpit from the right seat window. Nothing., you've got a nice depiction of
an actual accident. But it's not an actual accident.
Do not archive
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Bellcrank washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Now that we've moved past the black helicopters, I'd like to return to
building RVs for just a minute.
There are washer callouts for the elevator bellcrank assembly. These are
5702-95-30, which are used in the event of a bearing failure.
I believe these are STEEL plated. But I notice in fitting them today that
they rust fairly easily. I've stored mine in a plastic case since March and
given a fairly humid summer in fly-over country, they've already started to
rust.
I'd rather not put these on my plane.
Is there a reason why stell-plated washers are used here rather than, say,
an anodized aluminum washer/
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
ya know, i bet it was frickin real over the crew, right up to the last
moment.
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
I would have to go with Doug, in that the real story behind this crash was
the fact that 3 people were killed because of a simple oversight. Whether
the scene depicted in the video is real footage of the event or whether it
was computer generated, doesn't detract from the fact that we as humans can
and will do stuff that will kill us if not done properly. With that said my
vote is that it is a good computer generated video of an actual event.
Check the realism in these photos,
http://www.kgwings.com/caribou/caribou.html
Do Not Archive
Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
RV9A N658RP Reserved
If nothing changes
Nothing changes
-
While this real vs fake conversation is interesting, we are missing the
point. Whether the video is real or not is immaterial, those of us who read
the excellent stuff on the link that Kevin Horton posted learned that some
highly experienced pilots with lots of experience climbed in an airplane and
departed with the controls locked. They made a mistake and paid for it with
their lives.
Now the standard pilot response to this and the "Never Again' articles is,
"that guy was an idiot, I am not an idiot, I don't have a problem." Great
theory, but the problem is, highly experienced pilots with good judgement
and skills do idiodic things and get killed in this business with great
regularity.
The point of this is to cause us to pause and think.
Is there anyone on this list with more than 100 hours TT who will swear they
have never taken off with out doing a control check? If there is, I would
like to meet them. We all make mistakes, once in a great while the stars
line up wrong and a small mistake gets us. You say, "forgetting the control
lock is a big mistake." True. But Cockpit Resource Management says that we
acknowledge that we make mistakes and employ procedures to trap those
errors. The real mistake here was the failure to check the control freedom
before take-off. Good CRM or Standard Operating Procedures would have
trapped the error.
Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle hours
thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in our normal
flying and the standard operating procedures that we should use to trap
them? .
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
BTW my vote is real.
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/30/2005 8:36:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
steve@newtech.com writes:
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together.
===============================
Then how come you can easily paint over sand (virtually 100% silicon)? And
I defy you to keep it out of your hangar.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 758hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
With all this RC discussion though some of you might like this web site.
http://rob.com/matt/rc/rc_video/
Some of these are large files so would take a while to load for those of
you using dialup.
If you do have the patients to wait for the load pay attention to the
"b24.wmv" and the
"b52.wmv" while the b52 you cannot see the actual crash behind the trees
you can see the
resulting smoke from the fire. The b24 crash looks a lot like the crash
being discussed in this thread.
While the video does not look quite right to me because of some of the
reason already talked about
the thing that bothers me the most is the lack of emotion on the part of
the photographer. The guy
never moved a bit from filming the crash till he started filming again
when the fire was already started.
If it is real it is a sad, if it is fake it is a good fake.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" <martorious@earthlink.net>
My notes are spliced into the reply below...
Marty in Indiana
RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:18 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
>>
>> It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened
>in Canada on
>> date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people
>died, OK.
>
>You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've
>never seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an
>almost perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite
>concentrated).
Given that the plane crashes almost straight down at a relatively slow
velocity, I wouldn't expect a large debris field.
>
>Given the other artifacts of this film as already outlined, it's
>hard to conclude it's real, especially since they haven't been
>explained by anyone who insists it's real. There's no way -- no way
>-- the movement of the propellors, for example, is captured perfectly
>and smoothly by the video camera.
As far as the propeller is concerned, you would only see the strobe
effect if the rpm of the prop was close to a harmonic of the frame
rate of the video camera so that each frame caught the prop at or near
the same location. If however each frame caught the prop at an odd
position, relative to the last frame, say 25 degrees, where sequential
frames would not overlap the previous image, you would only see a
slight blur where the prop is, as we see in this video.
>
>Look inside the cockpit when the plane goes by. It's daylight. You
>should be able to see the light out the windshield. You don't.
Considering the height of the cockpit relative to the viewpoint, and
what appears to be a fairly wide bodied plane I wouldn't expect to see
sunshine, however, if you look close, just as it rotates, you can see
some sunshine through the forward windscreen. Also someone else
mentioned earlier that there were no windows in the sides, however
right after rotation you can see light shining through the side
windows as they line up with the windows on the opposite side.
>
>Do you see any exhaust coming out the back of the engines? Nope.
Considering the low quality of the video, and the fact that these were
new turbines, I'm not surprised that the exhaust would be
indiscernible
>
>I'm sure there really was an accident on this day and it may well be
>the one that has been claimed. But it's unlikely this is the video of
>it.
I disagree, I think this video is very authentic, to much texture and
detail (camera shake) to be faked (at least without Pixar studios and
a big budget). As far as the guys comments at the end, I agree that
they sound cold and distant, but different people react differently to
tragedies. Maybe this guy was really a true a**hole at heart.
>
>Do not archive
>
Message 54
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Bob,
Stainlees steel washers might be an alternative choice to the supplied
cadmium plated ones.
Jim in Kelowna
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
> Now that we've moved past the black helicopters, I'd like to return to
> building RVs for just a minute.
>
> There are washer callouts for the elevator bellcrank assembly. These are
> 5702-95-30, which are used in the event of a bearing failure.
>
> I believe these are STEEL plated. But I notice in fitting them today that
> they rust fairly easily. I've stored mine in a plastic case since March
> and
> given a fairly humid summer in fly-over country, they've already started
> to
> rust.
>
> I'd rather not put these on my plane.
>
> Is there a reason why stell-plated washers are used here rather than, say,
> an anodized aluminum washer/
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|