Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:20 AM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Mickey Coggins)
2. 03:39 AM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Stewart, Michael \(ISS Atlanta\))
3. 06:41 AM - Tire Rotation (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Bobby Hester)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Larry Pardue)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (flynlow)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Dan Checkoway)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
9. 08:38 AM - Re: Elevator misalignment (mark phipps)
10. 08:52 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
11. 09:35 AM - Auto Spark Plugs for Bendix/Slick Mag-ed RV's (Condon,Philip M.)
12. 09:42 AM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Wentz, Don)
13. 10:51 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Pat Hatch)
14. 10:52 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Jeff Dowling)
15. 10:54 AM - Re: Tire Rotation (Larry Bowen)
16. 12:14 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Ron Lee)
17. 12:18 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (HCRV6@aol.com)
18. 01:48 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Doug Weiler)
19. 01:48 PM - Re: Tire Rotation (Kyle Boatright)
20. 04:49 PM - computer glitch (SCOTT SPENCER)
21. 04:51 PM - Discolored wing skins (Joe Larson)
22. 05:41 PM - Re: Discolored wing skins (Dale Ensing)
23. 06:06 PM - Re: Discolored wing skins (LarryRobertHelming)
24. 06:07 PM - Fuel Flow Anomoly (Duane Bentley)
25. 06:39 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly (Alex Peterson)
26. 06:40 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly (Ed Anderson)
27. 06:54 PM - Re: Discolored wing skins (Jason Newburg)
28. 07:00 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly (Mark Burns)
29. 07:07 PM - Land Of Enchantment RV Fly-In October 15-17, 2005 (jacklockamy)
30. 07:22 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly (Dan Checkoway)
31. 07:35 PM - Re: Discolored wing skins (Jim Jewell)
32. 08:06 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Kevin Horton)
33. 08:13 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly (Duane Bentley)
34. 08:17 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (gert)
35. 08:49 PM - Re: Tire Rotation (Vanremog@AOL.COM)
36. 09:23 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Anomaly (Marty)
37. 09:26 PM - Cowl Louver/Enlarged exhaust cutout area pic (Ron Lee)
38. 09:34 PM - Vertical card compass (William Gill)
39. 10:06 PM - Re: Elevator misalignment (Rob Prior (rv7))
40. 11:34 PM - Re: Vertical card compass (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Good suggestions. If going to 1/4" is not enough, you could
take the elevators to a *good* welding shop and weld up the
holes, and install a small plate on the outboard parts of the
horns. As Dan said, best to check with Van's to get a blessed
course of action.
Mickey
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Assuming the horns have already been drilled, you might consider going from
> 3/16" to 1/4". That would allow you to bias one elevator one way in the
> process, and the other elevator the other way -- to eliminate or at least
> reduce the difference in incidence. You'd have to change the rod end
> bearing from 3/16" to 1/4", but that's not a big deal.
>
> I remember hearing one case where Van's approved enlarging the hole in the
> control horns from 3/16" to 1/4", but definitely give them a call before
> committing to that!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator misalignment
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>>
>>I didn't build an 8 and it has been awhile, but can't you align the
>>elevators before drilling the two horns together? I would want the
>>elevators to be aligned properly.
>>
>>Tim
>>RV-6
>>
>>-------Original Message-------
>>
>>From: DAVID REEL
>>Date: 09/07/05 22:49:32
>>To: rvlist
>>Subject: RV-List: Elevator misalignment
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>>
>>My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ
>>by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a tolerance
>>you find acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new elevator half
>>so the control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics search server timed
>>out
>>so I haven't been able to research this issue.
>>
>>Dave Reel - RV8A
>>
>>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael \(ISS Atlanta\)" <mstewart@iss.net>
1 degree? Wow you did good. Id not loose much sleep over 1 degree. You
will find a large pool of rv's with much more than that flying quite
nicely.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID REEL
Subject: RV-List: Elevator misalignment
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that
differ by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a
tolerance you find acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new
elevator half so the control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics
search server timed out so I haven't been able to research this issue.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy List-
What is the conventional wisdom on just flipping tires due to wear on one
side as opposed to switching R to L? I only have one wing jack and need to do
one at a time if possible. (can only lift one leg at a time!)
Thanks!
Mark Phillips
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Oh, I forgot to tell you. I start a new job Monday.
Drum roll please, get this .........
I am going to be a Blackhawk mechanic at Ft. Campbell working with a
Gov . contract company called DynCorp.
I'll have play money again!!!
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote...
>Howdy List-
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
autolearn=ham version=3.0.2
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Usually either the inside or outside is wearing. If you switch left to
right either the inside or outside worn part is still inside or outside as
it was originally.
I have been flipping the tire using a single wing jack for years and the
tires haven't exploded yet.
On 9/8/05 7:39 AM, "Fiveonepw@aol.com" <Fiveonepw@aol.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Howdy List-
>
> What is the conventional wisdom on just flipping tires due to wear on one
> side as opposed to switching R to L? I only have one wing jack and need to do
> one at a time if possible. (can only lift one leg at a time!)
>
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "flynlow" <flynlow@usaviator.net>
(can only lift one leg at a time!)
Hummmm, does that give anyone else a rather unsavory picture? I knew this
dog once......... Hummmmm......
Seriously Mark, you can jack up one wing and place a saw horse with a pillow
on top under that wing, then go to the other side and jack up the other
wing. Just a thought, I am certainly no expert.
Bud Silvers
RV8 almost have a fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Tire Rotation
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy List-
What is the conventional wisdom on just flipping tires due to wear on one
side as opposed to switching R to L? I only have one wing jack and need to
do
one at a time if possible. (can only lift one leg at a time!)
Thanks!
Mark Phillips
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> What is the conventional wisdom on just flipping tires due to wear on one
> side as opposed to switching R to L? I only have one wing jack and need
> to do
> one at a time if possible. (can only lift one leg at a time!)
Lower one axle onto a block of wood, then jack up the other side.
Photo here:
http://rvproject.com/images/2005/20050209_tires_and_brakes.jpg
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't change
anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
Doug
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: mark phipps <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
I agree with Michael Stewart. I don't think one degree will cause you any problems.
Mark Phipps, N242RP, RV6A
DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL"
My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ by 1
degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a tolerance you find
acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new elevator half so the control
horn can be redrilled? The Matronics search server timed out so I haven't been
able to research this issue.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 9/8/05 10:31:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes:
> If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't change
>
> anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
>
>>>
Yah, it took some head-scratchin' but I already figgered that one out- the
left is worn much more than the right, so rather than take both wheels off, tear
'em apart & re-assemble, I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side and
was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
problems...
Mark do not archive
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Auto Spark Plugs for Bendix/Slick Mag-ed RV's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Auto spark plugs for standard mag equipped RV's question
Using the available aviation plug-to-auto plug thread conversion
(Heli-coil looking thingies), has anyone made or found the
top-of-the-plug converters so we can use the standard aviation
slick/bendix wire harness-plug-ends on auto spark plugs ? Has this
been done before and I slept thru those discussions? The reason to do
this is cost, availability of exotic metal auto plugs, general
availability and other reasons that escape me.......
Message 12
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| Subject: | Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz@intel.com>
What about putting a 'doubler' where the hole that attaches the horns to
the control rod is and relocating the hole slightly?
Not sure now but before pre-punch it was common to have the
counterweights not line up if you lined-up the trailing edges of the
elevators.
However, we always felt the trailing edge alignment was more important
so we lined them up, and the only time you could tell the counterweights
didn't align was if the elevator was in trail with the Horz stab, which
is very seldom anyway (unless maybe you use a control lock at the
elevators. We usually use the pilots seat belt to hold the ailerons and
elevators when parked outside).
As to the original question ;-), not sure 1 degree will make a
difference....
Dw RV-6 905hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark phipps
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator misalignment
--> RV-List message posted by: mark phipps <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
I agree with Michael Stewart. I don't think one degree will cause you
any problems.
Mark Phipps, N242RP, RV6A
DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL"
My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that
differ by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a
tolerance you find acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new
elevator half so the control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics search
server timed out so I haven't been able to research this issue.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Mark,
I think you will find that a lot of people in RVs do this...flip the tire on
the wheel after the wear on the outside becomes significant. Makes the
tires last twice as long! Sounds like you are landing on the left
side--like I do. Or maybe I tend to turn more to the left on the ground, no
idea, but my left tires always seem to wear slightly more than the right.
Pat Hatch
RV-6
RV-7
> If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't change
>
> anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
>
>>>
Yah, it took some head-scratchin' but I already figgered that one out- the
left is worn much more than the right, so rather than take both wheels off,
tear
'em apart & re-assemble, I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side and
was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
problems...
Mark do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Might be tough to get air in there.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire Rotation
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/8/05 10:31:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
> DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes:
>
>> If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't
>> change
>>
>> anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
>>
>
>>>>
>
> Yah, it took some head-scratchin' but I already figgered that one out- the
> left is worn much more than the right, so rather than take both wheels
> off, tear
> 'em apart & re-assemble, I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side
> and
> was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
> problems...
>
> Mark do not archive
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I switched/reversed/swapped mine recently with no known problems
afterwards. They are wearing evenly after 125 hours.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Fiveonepw@aol.com said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/8/05 10:31:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
> DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes:
>
>> If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't
>> change
>>
>> anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
>>
>
>>>>
>
> Yah, it took some head-scratchin' but I already figgered that one out- the
> left is worn much more than the right, so rather than take both wheels
> off, tear
> 'em apart & re-assemble, I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side
> and
> was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
> problems...
>
> Mark
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ
>by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause?
As I put my elevators back on after alignment I noticed that mine are not
perfect. How much off I can't say but it is obvious when you look in the
right place.
I still fly OK. Well, I am basically safe. If anything it masks my inherent
poor flying skills.
I often have greaser landings so that is not affected.
My altitude excursions from desired are normal so that is not affected.
As others noted, I suspect no real impact.
Ron Lee
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 9/7/2005 10:48:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, dreel@cox.net
writes:
My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ
by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause
I noticed the same thing after I had carefully aligned the elevator
counterweight horns before drilling the control arms, also 1 degree difference
BTW,
on my slow build (pre-predrilled) -6. I stewed around worrying about it for a
long time and finally decided to fly it to see if there was any problem
before starting on some difficult and perhaps risky fix. Bottomline is that she
flew nearly hands off on the first flight and trims out perfectly. I doubt
that you will ever notice any effect of that slight misalignment.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 128 hours
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
>
> DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL"
>
> My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ by
> 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a tolerance you find
> acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new elevator half so the
> control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics search server timed out so I
> haven't been able to research this issue.
On my RV-4, the trailing edge of my elevators are misaligned by at least
1/4" or more in order to get the counter balances to line up nice with the
horz stab. It had no effect on the trim of the airplane. I wouldn't worry
about 1 degree
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
N722DW, 230 hrs
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire Rotation
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/8/05 10:31:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
> DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes:
>
>> If both tires are wearing on outside and u swap L to R that doesn't
>> change
>>
>> anything. Tire has to flipped on the rim. BTDT.
>>
>
>>>>
>
> Yah, it took some head-scratchin' but I already figgered that one out- the
> left is worn much more than the right, so rather than take both wheels
> off, tear
> 'em apart & re-assemble, I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side
> and
> was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
> problems...
>
> Mark do not archive
>
Many (most?) RV's wear their left tire more than the right tire. Why?
Because of propellor torque on takeoff...
KB
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
I have no idea what is going on here, but several messages posted by me some months
back have been re-submitted to the list this week. Sorry. I'm in the process
of setting up a new computer and something happened...
--> RV-List message posted by: <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
>Cut a piece of aluminum, making a disk about 3 inches wide and 6 inches
long.
How does one make a disk 3" wide and 6" long? A disk is 2 dimensional. Am
I
missing something here? does he mean a cylinder?
Scott
N4ZW
do not archive
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Discolored wing skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
My project sat for several years while I went through a house sale,
move, and building a new garage / workshop. I left the plastic wrap on
the wing skins all this time.
I've taken the plastic off, and I have a discoloration along some of
the skin edges. It's spotty and never more than about an inch from the
edges. I'm presuming water seeped in under the edge or something along
those lines.
The discoloration is basically milky, perhaps as if a little acid ate
the surface of the alclad. The skins in this area are now very
slightly rough -- a fingertip doesn't notice anything, but I can feel a
slightly different texture with the back of my fingernail.
Is this surface corrosion? I don't know what light corrosion looks
like.
Should I just prime the affected areas and keep going? Or do I have to
buff it out or something?
Or maybe it's nothing to worry about?
-Joe
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Discolored wing skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Joe,
It sounds like filigree corrosion. Had the same thing on my panel piece that
I left the plastic on for 5 years. Suggest you have someone - maybe local
Tech Councilor - look at it since it is wing skins.
Dale Ensing
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Discolored wing skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Yes, it is corrosion. Clean it with scotchbrite pad to remove the powdery
stuff, and spray with primer lightly. That will stop it and protect it.
Look at the edges also. You probably need to clean those as well before
priming.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
is always beyond our grasp, but which,
if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
Nathanial Hawthorn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> My project sat for several years while I went through a house sale,
> move, and building a new garage / workshop. I left the plastic wrap on
> the wing skins all this time.
>
> I've taken the plastic off, and I have a discoloration along some of
> the skin edges. It's spotty and never more than about an inch from the
> edges. I'm presuming water seeped in under the edge or something along
> those lines.
>
> The discoloration is basically milky, perhaps as if a little acid ate
> the surface of the alclad. The skins in this area are now very
> slightly rough -- a fingertip doesn't notice anything, but I can feel a
> slightly different texture with the back of my fingernail.
>
> Is this surface corrosion? I don't know what light corrosion looks
> like.
>
> Should I just prime the affected areas and keep going? Or do I have to
> buff it out or something?
>
> Or maybe it's nothing to worry about?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
I have an RV6 with 140 hrs, powered by an 0-360 with Airflow Perf. Fuel
injection. Flying back on a 2 hr x-country the other day, at 8500 ft, I
noticed fuel flow fluctuations bigger than normal. Normal is 0.1 gph
max, but usually no movement. It was oscillating 0.5 max to min (9.6 -
10.1). MP was also moving about 0.4 psi, and occasionally the RPM by
about 10 . No change when the electric pump was turned on. No change
when switching tanks.
I took the plane back up a couple days later, same response after
pulling the throttle back to cruise and leaning the mixture at 8500 ft.
I called Don Rivera at AFP, and he is a little stumped and recommended
more testing. Further flight test shows no fluctuation during take off
and climb out; same when throttling back for descent and landing - no
fluctuation. I repeated the same test today at 3100, 4500, 6500, 8500,
and 10500 ft. The problem still exists, but slightly less than before,
fuel flow .2 - .3 gph movement, MP about .3 psi delta. Perhaps a little
higher fluctuation at higher altitudes than lower. I asked Don if I
needed a new mechanical pump. He said that he thought that with no
change in the response when turning off the electric pump, it was
unlikely. He said the aux. pump fuel pressure should "push the
diaphragm aside" and pump directly to the fuel servo, when actuated. I
read 24-25 psi from the VM1000 at cruise altitude with the electric pump
on, 20 with it off, with an occasional momentary drop to 18 -19. He
thinks the fuel pressure transducer calibration is a little off, since
his electrical pump should put out 26 to 28 psi.
I pulled the AFP fuel filters (2) tonight and found them both clean, as
they were when I did the annual about 50 hours ago. I'll pull the
injectors Saturday, but don't expect to find anything new there. I
pumped fuel through the tanks, through the fuel valve and electric pump
and out through the firewall. No air bubbles other than when switching
through "OFF" between left and right tanks. I haven't checked the fuel
tank vents, but they seem to bleed fuel easily when the tank is full and
the fuel heats up with the plane in the hangar. The mechanical pump is
vented, no change here.
The only change made to the engine in the last month is the addition of
an air / oil separator instead of dumping over the exhaust pipe and
oiling the bottom of the plane. Can't see that this would affect the
fuel flow.
Any suggestions?
Duane Bentley
N 515DB
West Chester, OH
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
>
> I have an RV6 with 140 hrs, powered by an 0-360 with Airflow
> Perf. Fuel injection. Flying back on a 2 hr x-country the
> other day, at 8500 ft, I noticed fuel flow fluctuations
> bigger than normal. Normal is 0.1 gph max, but usually no
> movement. It was oscillating 0.5 max to min (9.6 - 10.1).
> MP was also moving about 0.4 psi, and occasionally the RPM
> by about 10 . No change when the electric pump was turned
> on. No change when switching tanks.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Duane Bentley
Fuel flow transducer?
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 667 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Anomoly
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
>
> I have an RV6 with 140 hrs, powered by an 0-360 with Airflow Perf. Fuel
> injection. Flying back on a 2 hr x-country the other day, at 8500 ft, I
> noticed fuel flow fluctuations bigger than normal. Normal is 0.1 gph
> max, but usually no movement. It was oscillating 0.5 max to min (9.6 -
> 10.1). MP was also moving about 0.4 psi, and occasionally the RPM by
> about 10 . No change when the electric pump was turned on. No change
> when switching tanks.
>
>
> I took the plane back up a couple days later, same response after
> pulling the throttle back to cruise and leaning the mixture at 8500 ft.
>
>
> I called Don Rivera at AFP, and he is a little stumped and recommended
> more testing. Further flight test shows no fluctuation during take off
> and climb out; same when throttling back for descent and landing - no
> fluctuation. I repeated the same test today at 3100, 4500, 6500, 8500,
> and 10500 ft. The problem still exists, but slightly less than before,
> fuel flow .2 - .3 gph movement, MP about .3 psi delta. Perhaps a little
> higher fluctuation at higher altitudes than lower. I asked Don if I
> needed a new mechanical pump. He said that he thought that with no
> change in the response when turning off the electric pump, it was
> unlikely. He said the aux. pump fuel pressure should "push the
> diaphragm aside" and pump directly to the fuel servo, when actuated. I
> read 24-25 psi from the VM1000 at cruise altitude with the electric pump
> on, 20 with it off, with an occasional momentary drop to 18 -19. He
> thinks the fuel pressure transducer calibration is a little off, since
> his electrical pump should put out 26 to 28 psi.
>
>
> I pulled the AFP fuel filters (2) tonight and found them both clean, as
> they were when I did the annual about 50 hours ago. I'll pull the
> injectors Saturday, but don't expect to find anything new there. I
> pumped fuel through the tanks, through the fuel valve and electric pump
> and out through the firewall. No air bubbles other than when switching
> through "OFF" between left and right tanks. I haven't checked the fuel
> tank vents, but they seem to bleed fuel easily when the tank is full and
> the fuel heats up with the plane in the hangar. The mechanical pump is
> vented, no change here.
>
>
> The only change made to the engine in the last month is the addition of
> an air / oil separator instead of dumping over the exhaust pipe and
> oiling the bottom of the plane. Can't see that this would affect the
> fuel flow.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Duane Bentley
>
> N 515DB
>
> West Chester, OH
>
Duane, I always like to start with the last thing I did before something
started happening. Frequently there is a correlation (at least in my
cases). I am wondering whether the addition of your air/oil separator could
possibly added a bit more pressure build up inside the crankcase. Perhaps
there is a small increase in crankcase pressure that is causing the
combustion chamber pressure to vary a bit (perhaps through the blowby amount
being changed). If one cylinder is not sealing quite as well as the others,
this might effect the amount of mixture it can ingest when the valves open
causing the small variation in manifold pressure. At cruise I presume you
are at wide open throttle - I believe that would also be the time your back
pressure in the crankcase would be at its maximum, acerbating the effect.
One quick way to check would be to disconnect your air/oil separator - it
either will have an effect or it won't {:>)
Ed A
Message 27
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| Subject: | Discolored wing skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jason Newburg" <newburg@bellsouth.net>
Just curious, in general are the builder of the RV series of aircraft
using etch and alodine then prime prior to assembly.
If corrosion is starting prior to the build process, I would suggest it
will go down hill quickly if not prepared/protected properly.
The value of these aircraft have increased so much that the time to
prepare the parts and prime prior to assembly would be a minor time
expense in the scheme of the value of the whole project.
Jason Newburg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: RV-List: Discolored wing skins
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sigecom.net>
Yes, it is corrosion. Clean it with scotchbrite pad to remove the
powdery
stuff, and spray with primer lightly. That will stop it and protect it.
Look at the edges also. You probably need to clean those as well before
priming.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
is always beyond our grasp, but which,
if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
Nathanial Hawthorn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> My project sat for several years while I went through a house sale,
> move, and building a new garage / workshop. I left the plastic wrap
on
> the wing skins all this time.
>
> I've taken the plastic off, and I have a discoloration along some of
> the skin edges. It's spotty and never more than about an inch from
the
> edges. I'm presuming water seeped in under the edge or something
along
> those lines.
>
> The discoloration is basically milky, perhaps as if a little acid ate
> the surface of the alclad. The skins in this area are now very
> slightly rough -- a fingertip doesn't notice anything, but I can feel
a
> slightly different texture with the back of my fingernail.
>
> Is this surface corrosion? I don't know what light corrosion looks
> like.
>
> Should I just prime the affected areas and keep going? Or do I have
to
> buff it out or something?
>
> Or maybe it's nothing to worry about?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Burns" <burnsm@cox.net>
Duane,
I'd check the throttle cable linkage. You say MP was also moving.
Couldn't the MP movement be driving the fuel flow movement?
Could something be going on in the airbox that would vary MP?
Like that little Van's alternate air "trap door" I read so much about.
Just throwing out some ideas.
Mark Burns
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duane Bentley
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Anomoly
--> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
I have an RV6 with 140 hrs, powered by an 0-360 with Airflow Perf. Fuel
injection. Flying back on a 2 hr x-country the other day, at 8500 ft, I
noticed fuel flow fluctuations bigger than normal. Normal is 0.1 gph
max, but usually no movement. It was oscillating 0.5 max to min (9.6 -
10.1). MP was also moving about 0.4 psi, and occasionally the RPM by
about 10 . No change when the electric pump was turned on. No change
when switching tanks.
I took the plane back up a couple days later, same response after
pulling the throttle back to cruise and leaning the mixture at 8500 ft.
I called Don Rivera at AFP, and he is a little stumped and recommended
more testing. Further flight test shows no fluctuation during take off
and climb out; same when throttling back for descent and landing - no
fluctuation. I repeated the same test today at 3100, 4500, 6500, 8500,
and 10500 ft. The problem still exists, but slightly less than before,
fuel flow .2 - .3 gph movement, MP about .3 psi delta. Perhaps a little
higher fluctuation at higher altitudes than lower. I asked Don if I
needed a new mechanical pump. He said that he thought that with no
change in the response when turning off the electric pump, it was
unlikely. He said the aux. pump fuel pressure should "push the
diaphragm aside" and pump directly to the fuel servo, when actuated. I
read 24-25 psi from the VM1000 at cruise altitude with the electric pump
on, 20 with it off, with an occasional momentary drop to 18 -19. He
thinks the fuel pressure transducer calibration is a little off, since
his electrical pump should put out 26 to 28 psi.
I pulled the AFP fuel filters (2) tonight and found them both clean, as
they were when I did the annual about 50 hours ago. I'll pull the
injectors Saturday, but don't expect to find anything new there. I
pumped fuel through the tanks, through the fuel valve and electric pump
and out through the firewall. No air bubbles other than when switching
through "OFF" between left and right tanks. I haven't checked the fuel
tank vents, but they seem to bleed fuel easily when the tank is full and
the fuel heats up with the plane in the hangar. The mechanical pump is
vented, no change here.
The only change made to the engine in the last month is the addition of
an air / oil separator instead of dumping over the exhaust pipe and
oiling the bottom of the plane. Can't see that this would affect the
fuel flow.
Any suggestions?
Duane Bentley
N 515DB
West Chester, OH
Message 29
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| Subject: | Land Of Enchantment RV Fly-In October 15-17, 2005 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "jacklockamy" <jacklockamy@verizon.net>
Adventure Aviation FBO at Las Cruces, NM is sponsoring the "Land of Enchantment
RV Fly-In" October 15-17. They have advertised the event in the
Experimental Aircraft Technology magazine and locally....
Not sure what the 'beef' was with the previous RV Fly-In at LOE Las Cruces
or the organizers, but Jo and Doug at Adventure Aviation will be hosting an RV
Fly-In
the same weekend as the RV Fly-In at Santa Teresa. I spoke at length with
Jo about the event and all I can say is there are always two sides to the
story and the previous event organizers may have been wearing their ego's on
their sleeves.... Jo explained they couldn't get the already prepared food
out of the kitchen fast enough for "Red" and they (Adventure Aviation)
bought SIX kegs of beer for the event out of their own pockets for all that
showed up. According to Jo, the organizers preferred cups from the
restaurant stock rather than using the beer cups that Budweiser supplied
with the six kegs of beer. Just relaying info as I was told.
I was actually at the LOE 2004 Fly-In. I was in Alamogordo, NM on business
and drove over to check out the planes and event. I was impressed by the
organization and number of folks that showed up. Jo's son Clint had
installed extra tiedowns for the event and there was plenty of parking (on
pavement) for all the planes that showed up. I bought a ticket to the
buffet dinner on Saturday evening but departed before dinner was served.
Santa Teresa is in the middle of nowhere and I doubt the parking will be
adequate if the same number of RVs show up as in the past.
Having just returned from Las Cruces after being hosted by Adventure
Aviation for the past week, they are OUTSTANDING host! I sincerely hope RV
pilots/owners will support the Las Cruces RV Fly-In and skip the Santa
Teresa event. The folks at KLRU and Las Cruces deserve our support.
My two cents!
Jack Lockamy
RV-7A N174JL
Camarillo, CA
www.jacklockamy.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
The fact that you had three separate indications fluctuating, and since
you're using a consolidated engine monitor, it suggests an electrical/wiring
issue to me. Does the problem vary with different RPM (i.e. different
vibration frequencies)? You mentioned it occurs after throttling back and
leaning...does it literally happen at a certain fuel flow, or at a
particular power setting?
I would check all the wiring connections (if possible), including battery
connections, to rule out a loose ground or something like that.
Just my 2 cents, it's a stab in the dark. Hope it helps!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Flow Anomoly
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
>
> I have an RV6 with 140 hrs, powered by an 0-360 with Airflow Perf. Fuel
> injection. Flying back on a 2 hr x-country the other day, at 8500 ft, I
> noticed fuel flow fluctuations bigger than normal. Normal is 0.1 gph
> max, but usually no movement. It was oscillating 0.5 max to min (9.6 -
> 10.1). MP was also moving about 0.4 psi, and occasionally the RPM by
> about 10 . No change when the electric pump was turned on. No change
> when switching tanks.
>
>
> I took the plane back up a couple days later, same response after
> pulling the throttle back to cruise and leaning the mixture at 8500 ft.
>
>
> I called Don Rivera at AFP, and he is a little stumped and recommended
> more testing. Further flight test shows no fluctuation during take off
> and climb out; same when throttling back for descent and landing - no
> fluctuation. I repeated the same test today at 3100, 4500, 6500, 8500,
> and 10500 ft. The problem still exists, but slightly less than before,
> fuel flow .2 - .3 gph movement, MP about .3 psi delta. Perhaps a little
> higher fluctuation at higher altitudes than lower. I asked Don if I
> needed a new mechanical pump. He said that he thought that with no
> change in the response when turning off the electric pump, it was
> unlikely. He said the aux. pump fuel pressure should "push the
> diaphragm aside" and pump directly to the fuel servo, when actuated. I
> read 24-25 psi from the VM1000 at cruise altitude with the electric pump
> on, 20 with it off, with an occasional momentary drop to 18 -19. He
> thinks the fuel pressure transducer calibration is a little off, since
> his electrical pump should put out 26 to 28 psi.
>
>
> I pulled the AFP fuel filters (2) tonight and found them both clean, as
> they were when I did the annual about 50 hours ago. I'll pull the
> injectors Saturday, but don't expect to find anything new there. I
> pumped fuel through the tanks, through the fuel valve and electric pump
> and out through the firewall. No air bubbles other than when switching
> through "OFF" between left and right tanks. I haven't checked the fuel
> tank vents, but they seem to bleed fuel easily when the tank is full and
> the fuel heats up with the plane in the hangar. The mechanical pump is
> vented, no change here.
>
>
> The only change made to the engine in the last month is the addition of
> an air / oil separator instead of dumping over the exhaust pipe and
> oiling the bottom of the plane. Can't see that this would affect the
> fuel flow.
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Duane Bentley
>
> N 515DB
>
> West Chester, OH
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Discolored wing skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Joe,
If you plan to cover the areas involved with paint try this. Use a red
Scotchbrite pad and some acid etch solution (Alumiprep is the one I am
familiar with). scour and etch a test area as if preparing to paint. This
should remove the surface etching that you describe. During the prep for
paint sessions surfaces will have to be treated to some fairly serious
scouring etching etc. before the paint is applied. Talk to some paint shop
employees, maybe go in person to a shop or two to get a good feel for what
the Alclad skins will endure while being readied for paint. Maybe show them
a sample to get their opinion.
If a polished aluminium finish is you dream, wake up dude!..{[;-)!!
Jim in Kelowna, A lot of paint prep is being done here right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Subject: RV-List: Discolored wing skins
> --> RV-List message posted by: Joe Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> My project sat for several years while I went through a house sale,
> move, and building a new garage / workshop. I left the plastic wrap on
> the wing skins all this time.
>
> I've taken the plastic off, and I have a discoloration along some of
> the skin edges. It's spotty and never more than about an inch from the
> edges. I'm presuming water seeped in under the edge or something along
> those lines.
>
> The discoloration is basically milky, perhaps as if a little acid ate
> the surface of the alclad. The skins in this area are now very
> slightly rough -- a fingertip doesn't notice anything, but I can feel a
> slightly different texture with the back of my fingernail.
>
> Is this surface corrosion? I don't know what light corrosion looks
> like.
>
> Should I just prime the affected areas and keep going? Or do I have to
> buff it out or something?
>
> Or maybe it's nothing to worry about?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL"
>
> My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that
> differ by 1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a
> tolerance you find acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new
> elevator half so the control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics
> search
> server timed out so I haven't been able to research this issue.
>
>
According to the data in the CAFE RV-8A Aircraft Performance Report,
each elevator has an area of about 4.4 ft
2. So each elevator has
about one twelfth as much area as a wing. The rolling moment is
proportional to the area times the span, and the elevator span is
about 100 inches while the wing span is about 23 ft (depending on
which style wing tips you have.
Thus the rolling moment created by this one degree side-to-side
elevator misalignment would be about the same as if there was a side-
to-side difference in wing incidence of about 0.03 degrees. You
would have a very hard time finding a way to measure your wing
incidence well enough to measure that finely.
The elevator misalignment won't cause a handling, performance or
structural problem. It might be a cosmetic problem, but that is for
you to judge.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 33
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| Subject: | RE: Fuel Flow Anomoly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley@fuse.net>
Thanks for the responses.
Yes, I had the same fluctuations at 2500 rpm in cruise that I saw at
2400.
Don't think it's the fuel flow transducer, since the other two
parameters are also telling me there real engine response issue.
I have a throttle quadrant with a pretty good friction lock, so I don't
think I'm picking up a vibration that is moving one of the cables.
Again, why only at cruise with mixture reduction? By the way, I did
have those magnets drop off the FAB Box flapper door about a month ago.
(Not a great retention design). I got some new ones and glassed them in
place, so the door isn't flapping for sure.
An electrical problem . maybe, but I don't know how to isolate it as in
intermittent problem that doesn't appear during take off, climb, or
descent.
Don Rivera also tossed the CS prop governor as an issue into the ring.
Is the prop cycling the engine, causing the MP and therefore fuel to
cycle? That is also difficult to trouble shoot. Again, why only at
cruise?
The suggestion of reverting back to the old crankcase breather tube can
be done without a major problem. I'll give that one a try on Saturday
as well.
So you can see why I'm welcoming any input.
Thanks
Duane
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
direct quote from Van's: Life was sooo much easier before the digital levels
Doug Weiler wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
>
>
>
>
>>DAVID REEL <dreel@cox.net> wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL"
>>
>>My RV8A's left and right elevator halves have incidence angles that differ by
>>1 degree. What kind of problems will this cause? Is there a tolerance you find
>>acceptable? Is there a fix short of building a new elevator half so the
>>control horn can be redrilled? The Matronics search server timed out so I
>>haven't been able to research this issue.
>>
>>
>
>On my RV-4, the trailing edge of my elevators are misaligned by at least
>1/4" or more in order to get the counter balances to line up nice with the
>horz stab. It had no effect on the trim of the airplane. I wouldn't worry
>about 1 degree
>
>Doug Weiler
>Hudson, WI
>N722DW, 230 hrs
>
>
>
>
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Rotation |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message you write:
I just wanted to flip the tire on the left side and
was mostly curious if reversing the rotation of a tire could cause any
problems...
=====================
Only if you are running steel belted radials.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 761hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 36
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| Subject: | RE: Fuel Flow Anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" <martorious@earthlink.net>
>Again, why only at cruise with mixture reduction? By the way, I did
>have those magnets drop off the FAB Box flapper door about a month
>ago.
>(Not a great retention design). I got some new ones and glassed them
>in
>place, so the door isn't flapping for sure.
>
Don't be so quick here. Perhaps the door is flapping, that could be
the cause. Now stay with me here. Perhaps at cruise you're drawing
just enough of a vacuum to overpower the magnet (if you just glassed
it in, perhaps the glass is thick enough to have lessened the hold of
the magnet?) When the door opens the vacuum is relieved enough the
magnet catches and closes the door, thus the fluctuation. Why only at
cruise? Perhaps the particular cruise setting you use is on the edge
of the magnets performance envelope. At higher settings the MP is
such that the bypass door stays open, thus no fluctuations, and just
the opposite at lower throttle settings, i.e. the door stays closed.
Like others, I'm just shooting ideas into the dark! If you find a way
to test this, let us know the outcome.
Marty in Indiana
RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
Message 37
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| Subject: | Cowl Louver/Enlarged exhaust cutout area pic |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
The louvers were made locally by a hotrod guy (like louvers on the
hoods of some cars).
http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/Cowl_Louver_Small.jpg
Ron Lee
PS, manly blue isn't it !
Message 38
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| Subject: | Vertical card compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Hello All,
I=92m looking for a source for a panel mount 2 =BC=94 vertical card compass.
I=92ve scoured Spruce, Chief and others and have not found =93panel mount=94
in their description. Also, I=92d be interested in hearing about the
accuracy/reliability from those that have a vertical card compass.
Best regards,
Bill
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator misalignment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 13:17:42 2005-09-08 Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
> The elevator misalignment won't cause a handling, performance or
> structural problem. It might be a cosmetic problem, but that is for
> you to judge.
How much additional drag will it cause though? :)
Kevin's right, I would suggest that the only reasons to correct it are (a)
your perfectionist nature, or (b) you're going for the absolute fastest
airplane you can get.
-Rob
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical card compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I got mine from here:
http://www.steinair.com/instruments.htm
Not sure how well it works, since I'm not yet flying.
Mickey
> I=92m looking for a source for a panel mount 2 =BC=94 vertical card compass.
> I=92ve scoured Spruce, Chief and others and have not found =93panel mount=94
> in their description. Also, I=92d be interested in hearing about the
> accuracy/reliability from those that have a vertical card compass.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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