Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - RV9 leading edges to spar (Chenoweth)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Sender float (PGLong@aol.com)
3. 06:10 AM - EAA690 LZU Lawrenceville, GA (Frank)
4. 07:01 AM - air gizmo (John Huft)
5. 07:06 AM - RV7A Project for sale (Trainnut01@aol.com)
6. 07:24 AM - Re: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable (sportav8r@aol.com.version=3.0.3)
7. 07:33 AM - Re: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable (Jamie Painter)
8. 08:23 AM - Re: RV9 leading edges to spar (LarryRobertHelming)
9. 08:47 AM - Re:Bolt Torque Question... (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
10. 09:14 AM - Re: RV9 leading edges to spar (Joseph Larson)
11. 09:39 AM - Re: RV9 leading edges to spar (Bob)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Re:Bolt Torque Question... (LarryRobertHelming)
13. 11:03 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Question... (not processed: message from valid local sender) (Dean Van Winkle)
14. 11:40 AM - Re: RV7A Project for sale (Weasel)
15. 12:26 PM - Re: Re:Bolt Torque Question... (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
16. 02:34 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Question... (not processed: message from valid local... (DAVID REEL)
17. 03:12 PM - Re: air gizmo (SteinAir, Inc.)
18. 05:06 PM - Re: RV9 leading edges to spar (Chenoweth)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV9 leading edges to spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I've checked the archives but can't find much but lamentations about the difficulty
of riveting the middle rib on the RV9 leading edge assembly to the spar.
Van's authorizes LP pulled rivets as needed but I'm hoping someone can give some
help with the technique for using all solid rivets on this assembly including
on the very hard to reach middle rib.
For example, are there specific bucking bars (Avery part numbers) that people use?
How does one coach a novice bucker (one with the proper size hand to fit thru the
hole in the spar (likely a wife)) or does one take a different tack?
Bill
Albion, Maine
91037
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sender float |
--> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com
I have a couple of Stewart Warner float assemblies I no longer need.
1 D-385-B
1 D-385-C
Pat Long
PGLong@aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | EAA690 LZU Lawrenceville, GA |
--> RV-List message posted by: Frank <frv6a@yahoo.com>
I'm Frank Reed of Pelham, NH.
A few years ago I bought Charlie Patterson's supurb
RV-6A, N89PC. I'm now forced to sell because my
flying days are over (Cancer) and I would like to see
this airplane go back to LZU where it was born. Many
of you may remember that Charlie spent 4000 hours
building this airplane and his meticulous workmanship.
The airplane has 210 tach hours, (250 Hobbs) since
brand new airframe, brand new O-320 Lycoming and brand
new Hartzell CS prop. All plans, builders logs,
pictures and everything Charlie had from the time he
orderded the kit is included. Day/night VFR.
TAS of 160 knots at altitude on 8.6 gph. Lower
altitudes and power will get 140 knots at about 7gph.
A very fuel efficient airframe, engine and prop
combination.
Just completed a very extensive condition
inspection/annual by the same AI that has done it
since I bought it. He treats it like a standard
airworthyness airplane, nothing experimental fwf.
Stock Lycoming. 3 new tires, brake pads. Much more.
Please contact me offline for more information. I'll
offer a good deal to see this airplane back at LZU but
I do intend to put it in Trade-A-Plane and others who
may be interested are welcome to contact me.
__________________________________
Message 4
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TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
I saw a mount for the 296 that goes in the radio stack at OSH called
"Air Gizmo"...now I can't find it.
Anyone have the contact info for them?
Thanks, John
Message 5
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| Subject: | RV7A Project for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
I've managed to delete Walt Shipley's e-mail address. Can someone on the
list give it to me.
Carroll Jernigan
RV7A Finishing (for sale)
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable |
version=3.0.3
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com version=3.0.3
I bought mine from JA Air Center via eBay. Nice unit. Pricey at 100 bucks, but
it would take a year for me to make anything similar that wouldn't look half
as good. Given the small market and development costs, I guess he has it priced
about right. IIRC, there is a web page; try google.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
Subject: RV-List: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
I saw a mount for the 296 that goes in the radio stack at OSH called
"Air Gizmo"...now I can't find it.
Anyone have the contact info for them?
Thanks, John
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable |
version=3.0.3
--> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jamie@jpainter.org>
http://www.airgizmos.com/
do not archive
John Huft wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
>
>I saw a mount for the 296 that goes in the radio stack at OSH called
>"Air Gizmo"...now I can't find it.
>
>Anyone have the contact info for them?
>
>Thanks, John
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV9 leading edges to spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Bill in Maine, you asked about coaching a bucker. Well, the only important
thing is that the bucker (and the riveter too for that matter) stay on the
rivet and not get vibrated off. How to do that? I assume you can do it if
you have room and can hold it firmly with two hands.
I like to have the riveter feather in the rivet gun, I mean to slowly pull
the trigger to full on rather than just jerk to full on. The bucker does
not get caught off guard this way. There needs to be good communication
between the riveter and bucker. The riveter puts the rivet in and puts the
gun on the rivet holding pressure on it to keep it in place and says
"READY." The bucker then moves to put the bar on the rivet. Sometimes it
helps to have the bucker tapping the rivet so the riveter can feel that the
bar is on the rivet when it cannot been seen. Bad things happen if the
bucker is not on the rivet or supply sufficient force to stay there. Too
much force by the bucker against the rivet could push the rivet out of the
hole so the riveter needs to hold firm pressure to prevent this. When space
is limited, or bucker is working with one hand, or there is need to protect
surrounding or opposing aluminum from receiving unwanted dings, you should
tape some material around some parts of the bucking bar. I like to use a
piece of a scotch brite pad and keep it on with duct tape. You can hold the
bar with the taped part firmly against the skin with the uncovered part of
the bar on the rivet head. Having it resting against something really helps
control the bar so it doesn't move off the rivet. This is perhaps the most
important part of what I am advising.
When the bucking bar is in place, the word to "GO" is given by the bucker.
A one second burst is usually enough to set the rivet. If for any reason
the bucker does not feel the full force of the rivet gun coming through to
the bar when the gun starts up, the word to "STOP" is given immediately to
stop the harm that will be done otherwise. If the bucker is not sure of
being on the rivet, a tippy tap feathering action by the riveter should be
requested by the bucker that will allow the bucker to feel if the bar is on
the rivet. DO NOT rivet if the bar is not on the rivet or bad things will
happen. Using this technique has reduced my errors to near zero. Better to
use blind/pulled rivet if you cannot get a bucking bar of some sort on the
rivet. Look around at every bucking bar and piece of steel metal you have
if you think you can't buck it. Search the archives for more. People have
used some very interesting things to buck with. Hope this helps.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
is always beyond our grasp, but which,
if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
Nathanial Hawthorn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV9 leading edges to spar
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> I've checked the archives but can't find much but lamentations about the
> difficulty of riveting the middle rib on the RV9 leading edge assembly to
> the spar.
>
> Van's authorizes LP pulled rivets as needed but I'm hoping someone can
> give some help with the technique for using all solid rivets on this
> assembly including on the very hard to reach middle rib.
>
> For example, are there specific bucking bars (Avery part numbers) that
> people use?
>
> How does one coach a novice bucker (one with the proper size hand to fit
> thru the hole in the spar (likely a wife)) or does one take a different
> tack?
>
> Bill
> Albion, Maine
> 91037
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re:Bolt Torque Question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
I was torqueing rear spinner bolts to hub and for some reason decided to
check calibration of clicker type torque wrench. Found it was off by 8 ft lbs.
on the low side yet. In other words, it would click 8 lbs lo. YMMV, but yeah,
on the spinner I'd like the right torque. I might be anal...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Subject: RE: RV-List: Bolt Torque Question...
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
I use a hand squeezer because I don't want to spent the money on a pneumatic
squeezer.
I used a plumbbob and bubble level to be sure the fuselage because I didn't
want to spend the money on the digital levels ($3.69 vs $129 as I recall)
I've read all the messages over the years about torque bolts and
stuff....basically
considering the degree of axis of the earth, the wildcard situation in the
American League, and divide by the Gross National Product of Zimbabwe(g). And
I KNOW I could always buy a better and more expensive tool....but what I've
always done is take the old-fashioned (and cheap) torque wrench (that seems
to
be calibrated properly because my method achieved the same torque as a fellow
RV builder's fancy torque wrench.)......
...put it on the nut and turn. Since Van's chart says the AN3 should be
20-25 inch
pounds, I just leave it at that and align the indicator on the CTW (cheapie
torque wrench) to the midpoint between 0 and 50 on the CTW and stop turning
(using the high end).
Should I plan for this thing to fall from the sky?
Bob
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV9 leading edges to spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
I like to develop a standard set of words. Assume you have a riveter
and a bucker.
The riveter inserts the rivet into the hole, then holds the gun in
place so the rivet stays where it belongs. He then says "Ready".
The bucker then gets set up. When he's ready, he says "Go".
When riveting, I tend to use short bursts of the gun. I'll then say
"Done" when I'm done pulling the trigger.
The bucker then eyeballs the rivet and says "Good". If the rivet is
too smooshed, he needs to tell the riveter. I don't drill out one
bad rivet unless it's really bad, but you need to know if you over-
hammered the rivet. If it's not flat enough, the bucker can say
something like "one more quick burst" followed by "Go" when the
bucking bar is in place again.
The words themselves don't matter. What matters is a flow of
communication at each step. It's kind of frustrating to insert a
rivet and have the bucker push it back out before you can put the gun
in place. Having short words, and using the same words consistently,
keeps things moving smoothly. You get a real good rhythm going.
"Ready, go, done, good.... Ready, go, done, good."
The bucker needs to know how to use feeler gauges to verify a
properly-smooshed rivet as well as an unsmooshed rivet is of the
proper length. Clearly when riveting the wing skins, you use
different length rivets at some points, so the bucker needs to
recognize when the riveter inserted the wrong size rivet. "Oops,
that one's too short."
-J
On Sep 13, 2005, at 10:21 AM, LarryRobertHelming wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Bill in Maine, you asked about coaching a bucker. Well, the only
> important
> thing is that the bucker (and the riveter too for that matter) stay
> on the
> rivet and not get vibrated off. How to do that? I assume you can
> do it if
> you have room and can hold it firmly with two hands.
>
> I like to have the riveter feather in the rivet gun, I mean to
> slowly pull
> the trigger to full on rather than just jerk to full on. The
> bucker does
> not get caught off guard this way. There needs to be good
> communication
> between the riveter and bucker. The riveter puts the rivet in and
> puts the
> gun on the rivet holding pressure on it to keep it in place and says
> "READY." The bucker then moves to put the bar on the rivet.
> Sometimes it
> helps to have the bucker tapping the rivet so the riveter can feel
> that the
> bar is on the rivet when it cannot been seen. Bad things happen if
> the
> bucker is not on the rivet or supply sufficient force to stay
> there. Too
> much force by the bucker against the rivet could push the rivet out
> of the
> hole so the riveter needs to hold firm pressure to prevent this.
> When space
> is limited, or bucker is working with one hand, or there is need to
> protect
> surrounding or opposing aluminum from receiving unwanted dings, you
> should
> tape some material around some parts of the bucking bar. I like to
> use a
> piece of a scotch brite pad and keep it on with duct tape. You can
> hold the
> bar with the taped part firmly against the skin with the uncovered
> part of
> the bar on the rivet head. Having it resting against something
> really helps
> control the bar so it doesn't move off the rivet. This is perhaps
> the most
> important part of what I am advising.
>
> When the bucking bar is in place, the word to "GO" is given by the
> bucker.
> A one second burst is usually enough to set the rivet. If for any
> reason
> the bucker does not feel the full force of the rivet gun coming
> through to
> the bar when the gun starts up, the word to "STOP" is given
> immediately to
> stop the harm that will be done otherwise. If the bucker is not
> sure of
> being on the rivet, a tippy tap feathering action by the riveter
> should be
> requested by the bucker that will allow the bucker to feel if the
> bar is on
> the rivet. DO NOT rivet if the bar is not on the rivet or bad
> things will
> happen. Using this technique has reduced my errors to near zero.
> Better to
> use blind/pulled rivet if you cannot get a bucking bar of some sort
> on the
> rivet. Look around at every bucking bar and piece of steel metal
> you have
> if you think you can't buck it. Search the archives for more.
> People have
> used some very interesting things to buck with. Hope this helps.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
> is always beyond our grasp, but which,
> if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
>
> Nathanial Hawthorn
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV9 leading edges to spar
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>>
>> I've checked the archives but can't find much but lamentations
>> about the
>> difficulty of riveting the middle rib on the RV9 leading edge
>> assembly to
>> the spar.
>>
>> Van's authorizes LP pulled rivets as needed but I'm hoping someone
>> can
>> give some help with the technique for using all solid rivets on this
>> assembly including on the very hard to reach middle rib.
>>
>> For example, are there specific bucking bars (Avery part numbers)
>> that
>> people use?
>>
>> How does one coach a novice bucker (one with the proper size hand
>> to fit
>> thru the hole in the spar (likely a wife)) or does one take a
>> different
>> tack?
>>
>> Bill
>> Albion, Maine
>> 91037
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV9 leading edges to spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>Van's authorizes LP pulled rivets as needed but I'm hoping someone can
>give some help with the technique for using all solid rivets on this
>assembly including on the very hard to reach middle rib.
If Van's authorizes it and it is easier to rivet and no one will ever see
it, do that way.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re:Bolt Torque Question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
You are right to want the right value on your torque. That is why it is
wise to have it checked and repaired/adjusted on a ever so routine basis. I
remember when Mattituck built my engine, they had two guys each with
seperate wrenches that set and double checked the critical torques. AND --
They had the wrenches tested and adjusted ever month or three. If it is
critical, it is important to do it right. I know with my sears torque
wrench they will, for a fee of course, recondition my wrench. We had one of
our EAA members rent a torque testing machine and everyone brought in their
wrenches to check them for accuracy at an EAA meeting. What a turn out!!.
That guy kept busy for hours. I brought in three and they all were right on
and one was even 20 years old.
I had a wrench once (I have thrown it away since) that required more force
than necessary. I found this out when it twisted off a bolt. I had to
replace some stuff that had been over stressed after I found out about it.
It is better to do it right with good, well maintained equipment. Some
people will on AN3 type fittings just snug it up and give it another 1/4
turn. Some times you are in a confined area and this is what you must do by
working with feel. The screws on the spinner are right there where they are
visible and can easily be looked at before each flight. It is one of the
things on my preflight checklist. do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
is always beyond our grasp, but which,
if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
Nathanial Hawthorn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re:Bolt Torque Question...
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>
> I was torqueing rear spinner bolts to hub and for some reason decided to
> check calibration of clicker type torque wrench. Found it was off by 8 ft
> lbs.
> on the low side yet. In other words, it would click 8 lbs lo. YMMV, but
> yeah,
> on the spinner I'd like the right torque. I might be anal...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Question... (not processed: message from valid |
local sender)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Matt and Kevin
The torque required to overcome the nutplate locking friction needs to be
added to the 25 inch pounds specified to give the proper installation
torque. The same requirement applies to installation of locking nuts.
Otherwise, you are applying insufficient clamp-up force with the bolt or
nut.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt Torque Question... (not processed: message from
valid local sender)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 11 Sep 2005, at 18:22, Matt Johnson wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Johnson" <matt@n559rv.com>
>>
>> Matronics website seems to be down so I cannot do a search...
>>
>> I am putting the AN3 bolts into the fuel tank Z-Brackets through
>> the main spar and according to the chart these should be torqued at 25
>> inch pounds. I know I mentioned this before, but it just feels like
>> it is not tight enough. I can go another half turn after the torque
>> wrench "clicks" with minimal amount of pressure. Just to make sure
>> it wasnt my calibration off I have used two torque wrenches.
>>
>> Anyway, has anyone else been concerned with how loose 25 in. pounds
>> seems to be on these bolts? I just have the urge to snug them
>> down... please advise.
>>
>> P.S. Should I use lock-tite on these bolts?
>>
>
> 25 in-lbs is the correct torque. This is the standard torque for AN3
> bolts, and it is compatible with the bolt strength and the design
> loads for AN3 bolted joints. The standard torque values take into
> account the fact that there is additional force put on the bolt once
> the design load is applied, in some joints. If you exceed the design
> torque, the bolts might be OK in a static condition, but they could
> yield if the design load is ever applied. If you decide to exceed
> the standard torques, you need to do a bunch of engineering analysis
> to determine the additional force on the joint once the design load
> is applied. I recommend we leave that task to Van's engineers.
>
> The nutplates should keep the bolts from loosening in service, so
> lock-tite shouldn't be needed, in my opinion.
>
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | RV7A Project for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Weasel" <smoothweasel@juno.com>
I tried emailin u direct about the -7A and my mail was returned could you contact
me. Weasel
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: "Trainnut01@aol.com"<Trainnut01@aol.com>
Sent: 9/13/05 9:05:51
To: "rv-list@matronics.com"<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV7A Project for sale
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
I've managed to delete Walt Shipley's e-mail address. Can someone on the
list give it to me.
Carroll Jernigan
RV7A Finishing (for sale)
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re:Bolt Torque Question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
Roger that. It just occurred to me as I looked at the $320 price for the torque
wrench that pretty soon the solution to how to finance construction of this
airplane is going to be "sell the tools" (g).
Seriously, I think the VERY hardest thing about building is knowing what's good
and what's good enough. Obviously everyone wants the "right torque" on stuff
and everyone wants the best tool but part of the process here -- and it's a difficult
one -- is figuring out what one can and cannot afford and/or does and
does not need in building the plane.
I laughed on Dan's site when he checked the fuselage with a bubble and plumb bob
and commented on how at one time, that's how old-timers built airplanes.
I get the whole engineering thing. I understand accounting for friction of the
nut and the phase of the moon and everything. But it still makes me scratch my
head and wonder how all of those planes got into the air before $300 torque wrenches
and digital gizmos.
One of these days, I'd like to see what tools they're using in the Van's "skunk
works."
Bob
Do Not Archive
> on the spinner I'd like the right torque. I might be anal...
Roger that. It just occurred to me as I looked at the $320 price for the torque
wrench that pretty soon the solution to how to finance construction of this airplane
is going to be "sell the tools" (g).
Seriously, I think the VERY hardest thing about building is knowing what's good
and what's good enough. Obviously everyone wants the "right torque" on stuff
and everyone wants the best tool but part of the process here -- and it's a difficult
one -- is figuring out what one can and cannot afford and/or does and
does not need in building the plane.
I laughed on Dan's site when he checked the fuselage with a bubble and plumb bob
and commented on how at one time, that's how old-timers built airplanes.
I get the whole engineering thing. I understand accounting for friction of the
nut and the phase of the moon and everything. But it still makes me scratch my
head and wonder how all of those planes got into the air before $300 torque wrenches
and digital gizmos.
One of these days, I'd like to see what tools they're using in the Van's "skunk
works."
Bob
Do Not Archive
on the spinner I'd like the right torque. I might be anal...
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Question... (not processed: message from valid |
local...
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
The inexpensive bar and pointer type torque wrench is ideal for reading the drag
due to nut tightening. I got a 0-50 in-lb one on ebay. Unfortunately, you
often have to torque things where the pointer cannot be seen. So, I just add
a standard amount that I have found to be typical of the type of fastener I'm
using when I could see the pointer and tighten with the click stop type torque
wrench.
AC43.13 Table 7-1 has recommended torque values for all the size bolts we use.
There are two ranges given depending on whether the bolt is loaded in shear
or stretched longitudinally. The latter value is usually twice the minimum shear
torque. For An3 bolts, it's 20-25 and 40. If the drag is 5 in-lb, you can
tighten the bolt anywhere between 25 and 45 in-lb without worrying about failure
of the bolt or looseness in a shear load. It's the cadmium plating that
makes the things so easy to turn but they're really quite tight. By the way,
don't lubricate the threads with anything, loctite included, as this could lead
to over-tightening and subsequent failure.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@steinair.com>
Hi John,
I have one of them in my Flying RV-6, but it's holding my now outdated 196.
They are VERY nice. They fit right into a conventional radio stack quite
easily, and still allow you to pop out the GPS to take it home. I just
mounted mine earlier this year when replacing my Skyforce III GPS.
Surprisingly when it was done, the swap is barely noticable!
Price is right around $100.00, which is a pretty fair deal. I had built my
own previously, and given the time it took to do a decent job, this is a
great little gizmo. Also, it makes the portable GPS look very nice mounted
in the panel. Contact me off list if you need more details.
Last but not least, they are created and made by a fellow RV builder (Mike
Schipper), and they're developing a whole line of panel mounts for "goodies"
in your plane. Great guys with a great idea, so I'm happy to support them.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:01 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: air gizmo TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=unavailable
> version=3.0.3
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <rv8@lazy8.net>
>
> I saw a mount for the 296 that goes in the radio stack at OSH called
> "Air Gizmo"...now I can't find it.
>
> Anyone have the contact info for them?
>
> Thanks, John
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV9 leading edges to spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Thanks very much to all of you who responded to my request for help with the
leading edge/spar riveting. Tomorrow's the day. I'm feeling much more
hopeful about it now.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Larson" <jpl@showpage.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9 leading edges to spar
> --> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson <jpl@showpage.org>
>
> I like to develop a standard set of words. Assume you have a riveter
> and a bucker.
>
> The riveter inserts the rivet into the hole, then holds the gun in
> place so the rivet stays where it belongs. He then says "Ready".
>
> The bucker then gets set up. When he's ready, he says "Go".
>
> When riveting, I tend to use short bursts of the gun. I'll then say
> "Done" when I'm done pulling the trigger.
>
> The bucker then eyeballs the rivet and says "Good". If the rivet is
> too smooshed, he needs to tell the riveter. I don't drill out one
> bad rivet unless it's really bad, but you need to know if you over-
> hammered the rivet. If it's not flat enough, the bucker can say
> something like "one more quick burst" followed by "Go" when the
> bucking bar is in place again.
>
> The words themselves don't matter. What matters is a flow of
> communication at each step. It's kind of frustrating to insert a
> rivet and have the bucker push it back out before you can put the gun
> in place. Having short words, and using the same words consistently,
> keeps things moving smoothly. You get a real good rhythm going.
>
> "Ready, go, done, good.... Ready, go, done, good."
>
> The bucker needs to know how to use feeler gauges to verify a
> properly-smooshed rivet as well as an unsmooshed rivet is of the
> proper length. Clearly when riveting the wing skins, you use
> different length rivets at some points, so the bucker needs to
> recognize when the riveter inserted the wrong size rivet. "Oops,
> that one's too short."
>
> -J
>
> On Sep 13, 2005, at 10:21 AM, LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> > <lhelming@sigecom.net>
> >
> > Bill in Maine, you asked about coaching a bucker. Well, the only
> > important
> > thing is that the bucker (and the riveter too for that matter) stay
> > on the
> > rivet and not get vibrated off. How to do that? I assume you can
> > do it if
> > you have room and can hold it firmly with two hands.
> >
> > I like to have the riveter feather in the rivet gun, I mean to
> > slowly pull
> > the trigger to full on rather than just jerk to full on. The
> > bucker does
> > not get caught off guard this way. There needs to be good
> > communication
> > between the riveter and bucker. The riveter puts the rivet in and
> > puts the
> > gun on the rivet holding pressure on it to keep it in place and says
> > "READY." The bucker then moves to put the bar on the rivet.
> > Sometimes it
> > helps to have the bucker tapping the rivet so the riveter can feel
> > that the
> > bar is on the rivet when it cannot been seen. Bad things happen if
> > the
> > bucker is not on the rivet or supply sufficient force to stay
> > there. Too
> > much force by the bucker against the rivet could push the rivet out
> > of the
> > hole so the riveter needs to hold firm pressure to prevent this.
> > When space
> > is limited, or bucker is working with one hand, or there is need to
> > protect
> > surrounding or opposing aluminum from receiving unwanted dings, you
> > should
> > tape some material around some parts of the bucking bar. I like to
> > use a
> > piece of a scotch brite pad and keep it on with duct tape. You can
> > hold the
> > bar with the taped part firmly against the skin with the uncovered
> > part of
> > the bar on the rivet head. Having it resting against something
> > really helps
> > control the bar so it doesn't move off the rivet. This is perhaps
> > the most
> > important part of what I am advising.
> >
> > When the bucking bar is in place, the word to "GO" is given by the
> > bucker.
> > A one second burst is usually enough to set the rivet. If for any
> > reason
> > the bucker does not feel the full force of the rivet gun coming
> > through to
> > the bar when the gun starts up, the word to "STOP" is given
> > immediately to
> > stop the harm that will be done otherwise. If the bucker is not
> > sure of
> > being on the rivet, a tippy tap feathering action by the riveter
> > should be
> > requested by the bucker that will allow the bucker to feel if the
> > bar is on
> > the rivet. DO NOT rivet if the bar is not on the rivet or bad
> > things will
> > happen. Using this technique has reduced my errors to near zero.
> > Better to
> > use blind/pulled rivet if you cannot get a bucking bar of some sort
> > on the
> > rivet. Look around at every bucking bar and piece of steel metal
> > you have
> > if you think you can't buck it. Search the archives for more.
> > People have
> > used some very interesting things to buck with. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
> > is always beyond our grasp, but which,
> > if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
> >
> > Nathanial Hawthorn
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: RV9 leading edges to spar
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
> >>
> >> I've checked the archives but can't find much but lamentations
> >> about the
> >> difficulty of riveting the middle rib on the RV9 leading edge
> >> assembly to
> >> the spar.
> >>
> >> Van's authorizes LP pulled rivets as needed but I'm hoping someone
> >> can
> >> give some help with the technique for using all solid rivets on this
> >> assembly including on the very hard to reach middle rib.
> >>
> >> For example, are there specific bucking bars (Avery part numbers)
> >> that
> >> people use?
> >>
> >> How does one coach a novice bucker (one with the proper size hand
> >> to fit
> >> thru the hole in the spar (likely a wife)) or does one take a
> >> different
> >> tack?
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> Albion, Maine
> >> 91037
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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