---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/23/05: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:14 AM - Re: Aux tanks (Jeff Dowling) 2. 07:53 AM - Re: LASAR and CHT Probe (Randy Lervold) 3. 08:20 AM - Re: Aux tanks (Ron Lee) 4. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Condition Maintenance Inspection (Mike Robertson) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: RvAtor Receipt? (Marty) 6. 09:34 AM - Re: RvAtor Receipt? (Mickey Coggins) 7. 11:31 AM - E-Mag and P-Mags (D Paul Deits) 8. 01:43 PM - The Ultimate Online Pharmaceutical (Doctor) 9. 05:07 PM - Re: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans (JOHN STARN) 10. 10:53 PM - Left elevator rib (MLWynn@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:33 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Aux tanks --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Just an opinion here, but I would love to have another 10 gallons of fuel in my 6. I plan for a 3 hour trip now and think a 4 hour duration would be a good max. do not archive Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Subject: Re: RV-List: Aux tanks > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > After flying -4's for about 9 years, I'm working hard to find storage > volume anywhere I can in the -7 & the wingtips make nice lockers for > stuffable items like sleeping bags or multiple small items like oil, > tools, etc. > I used a technique similar to Todd's to add aux fuel to the leading > edges of my -7 wings (under construction). Added weight is about 2-3 lbs > per tank with around 13-14 gal per side (3 wet bays). This is more added > capacity than really needed (& a lot of work), & in retrospect I might > have used a fabricated tube through the lightening holes if I were > starting today. > > Email me direct if you want more details. > > Charlie > > > Allen Fulmer wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" >> >>Interesting stuff here: >> >>http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm >> >>Go to Fuel Systems and scroll down the page for link to ". . .written >>procedures for converting wing tip tanks" >> >>This is what I am planning to do. >> >>Allen Fulmer >>RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand) >>Eggenfellner Subaru H6 on order >>N808AF reserved >>Alexander City, AL >>256-329-2001 >> >>DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Trevor Mills >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RV-List: Aux tanks >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor Mills" >> >>I am thinking of turning the standard Van's wing tips into aux fuel >>tanks. >> >>Has anybody else done this ? or is there something that would make it >>impractical. >> >>I have seen the Australian tip tanks that van's is re-selling, but cant >>manage them on my budget. >> >>Also does anyone know if the standard tips are epoxy or polyester, or how >>to pick the difference, as I have been told I need to use epoxy to make >>them >>fuel proof. >> >>Thanks >> >>Trevor Mills 80605 >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:30 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR and CHT Probe --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Guys, unfortunately you can't just tie it off and put it under the panel, or just short the wires together. It needs to see some certain minimum temperature (can't remember what the number is) or it takes some other precautionary action. Also, see additional message from Walter Tondu for info on how it manages retarding the timing. And he's correct, just send it back and swap it for a brain w/o the circuit... it's required for a certified installation but NOT for an experimental. IMHO you dont' need it IF you have a good 4-channel engine monitor with temp warnings. If your alams sound due to high CHTs just turn it off and run on the two mags. That's one reason why it should always be installed with a pilot switchable power supply... either a switch or a breaker/switch. John, would love to debate LASAR merits over a beer, and maybe LOE next year when I have my RV-3B flying. This year I need to focus on getting the darned thing flying! Oh, I should probably mention that I have LASAR on my XP320 going in the -3B as well . Randy Lervold www.rv-3.com www.rv-8.com > Jim > > You will find a write up about the CHT probe on Randy Lervold's > website www.rv-8.com > > I also had the LASAR system on my RV-8, with the probe. As I understand > things, if you want to disable it as Randy suggests, you could just tie > it on to something under the panel. Since it would never get hot, it > wouldn't do anything. > > However, it is my opinion that it is a good thing. I talked to Harry > Fenton about it (back in the good-old-days when Harry was still there). > He told me that it begins to roll back the timing advance when the TIT > goes above 435 degrees F. That sounds like a good thing to me. The > timing advance does produce higher CHTs, and you don't want to damage > your engine. This function may well give you a limit of 435 until you > really force a climb on a hot day. > > My further opinion is that LASAR sucks, which is another area that Randy > and I disagree. I hope to meet him one day and have a talk over a couple > of beers :o) < Randy, how about LOE next month?> > > http://lazy8.net/EI.htm > > John Huft > RV8 "Nuisance" > > > Jim Gray wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Gray >> >>I'm just beginning installation of LASAR electronic ignition on my RV-8 >>and noticed it came with a cylinder head temperature probe, which I >>believe is an option with the LASAR system. I seem to remember some >>issues in past postings concerning the CHT probe. I'd appreciate any >>words of wisdom from current LASAR users that you might pass along to >>help me out during my installation. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jim Gray >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:14 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Aux tanks --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee I have 5 hours of fuel in a stock 6A as it is. I think my longest flight was just over 4 hours and I had adequate fuel left when I landed. LSE ignition in place of one mag may contribute to this plus I fly around 2550 rpm on a fixed pitch prop. Ron Lee Do not archive >Just an opinion here, but I would love to have another 10 gallons of fuel in >my 6. I plan for a 3 hour trip now and think a 4 hour duration would be a >good max. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:55 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Condition Maintenance Inspection --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Vince, Good question. Now you will have to bear with me for the answer. The problem is there is not a single FAR to go to for the answer. You have to look at several FAR to get a picture of what is required. Lets start with FAR 1 for the definition of "maintenance". It states "maintenance means inspection, overhaul, repair, preservation, and the replacement of parts, but excludes preventative maintenance". Subpart E of FAR 91 deals with maintenance, preventative maintenance, and alterations. If you look at 91.401 about the applicability of this subpart you will notice that is says that it covers "U.S.-registered civil aircraft". That means all of us including experimentals. Now lets go to FAR 91.405. Firstly you will notice that 91.405 does NOT exclude experimental aircraft. 91.405 has 4 subparagraphs, (a), (b), (c), and (d). (a) states that you will inspect the aircraft IAW subpart E (in this case it would be your operating limitations), and between inspections you will have discrepancies fixed as prescribed in FAR 43 (NOTE: While 43.1 says that part 43 is not applicable to experimental aircraft, FAR 91 and your operating limitations make certain parts of it applicable). (b) says that you will ensure that whoever does the maintenance will make appropriate entries in the aircrafts maintenance records indicting the aircraft has been approved for return to service. (c) and (d) talks about inoperative equipment and how they need to be properly placarded if left broke during flight, and that they need to be fixed no later than the next required inspection. Now on to 91.407. 91.407(a) is not applicable because it leads you to FAR 43, but 43.9 is the only guideline we have for what is needed for a maintenance log entry. (b) and (c) discuss if and when a test flight is needed after maintenance. Now lets jump to FAR 91.417, which covers maintenance records.(a) is the real meat of your question. It discuses what records are to be kept and what they include. You will notice that (a)(1) says that you must keep a record for each aircraft (including the airframe), each engine, propeller, rotor and appliance. It does not say that you must have a separate record or even that it must be in a book form, just that a record must be kept. Below (a)(1) it even tells you what items must be included on a record entry. 91.417(2) goes on to tell you what other information must also be kept. 91.417(b) then tells you how long you must keep records (log entries). And, finally, FAR 91.419 describes what records must be transferred with the aircraft when it is sold. SOOOOOOO, your answer is..........there is no requirement to kept separate logbooks....or even a logbook at all, but rather maintenance record entries. Separate logbooks are more of a convenience rather than a requirement. Because of the requirement to transfer records at the time of sale it has become easier to keep separate logbooks for the engine and propeller because they could go away if a new prop or engine was installed, and you have to keep maintenance records for these items because of the requirements of FAr 91.417. And even though 91.417(b) states that the record entries only need to be kept for one year or until superseded, keeping all the records enhances the value of the items. Now.....one last word. Over the years I have come across numerous experimental aircraft owners that say they don't make logbook entries except for the yearly condition inspection because they don't want to give the FAA ammunition in the event something should happen. I disagree with that viewpoint, but not because I am with the FAA. Because we, as amateur aircraft builders, may use any materials we want, and because anybody may do the maintenance, there is no logbook entry that could hurt you, but rather, because of the requirements of FAr 91 to make record entries, you can only get in trouble for NOT making entries. I know this has been a lengthy answer, but sometimes a simple question is not so simple. I hope I have helped. Mike Robertson Das Fed >From: "Vincent Welch" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Condition Maintenance Inspection >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:48:49 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" > >Mike, > >Just for my own education, can you tell me where I can find a listing of >the >entries that are required in the airframe, engine, and prop log books? >Specifically, what routine maintenance items are required to be noted? > >Vince > > > >From: "Mike Robertson" > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >To: rv-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Condition Maintenance Inspection > >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:31:32 -0700 > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > > >Duane, > > > >Again the condition inspection entry is not required in the engine >logbook > >by the regulations or, more properly, the Operating Limitations given to > >the > >aircraft at the time of the initial certification. Many people put and > >entry in the engine logbook as to the findings and inspection results, >but > >it is NOT required. > > > >If you have any questions please feel free to call me at (503) 615-3237. > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > > >From: "Duane Bentley" > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: RV-List: RE: Condition Maintenance Inspection > > >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:18:45 -0400 > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Duane Bentley" > > > > > >Thanks for your responses, but let me clarify. I taxied my prop into > > >the tip of a taxiway light on Saturday. One blade tip has small impact > > >and will need rework/repair. The insurance company sent out their > > >standard form, including a request for a copy of the Engine Logbook >page > > >and Aircraft Logbook Page that shows the last Annual Inspection. I've > > >recorded the Condition Maintenance Inspection wording in the Aircraft > > >Logbook each time, as recommended by the FAA, but never duplicated the > > >wording in the Engine Logbook. > > > > > > > > >Duane > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:53 AM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" Thanks for the encouragement Frank! I am definitely taking the plunge, but I'm under a fairly strict self-imposed timeline/budget. With a Bedroom remodel to complete and a shop to build before I can start, I'm looking at spring of 2007 before I can order the Emp kit, but I WILL DO IT!! Marty in Indiana RV-8A Preview plans in Hand do not archive >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stringham >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:16 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" > > >Marty > >It is a great read. Especially the round the world flight. Last year >at this >time I ahd the preview in hand. Emp in the box and juyst finished the >practice kit. Since then....emp complete...wings done except for >wiring and >trio wing leveler servo install, and the fuse has the center and aft >connected. >It has been great fun, hard work, and frustratinjg at >times................but progress non the less. Go for >it............................ > >Frank @ sgu and slc > > >>From: "Marty" >>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >>To: >>Subject: RE: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? >>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:38:12 -0500 >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" >> >>Ok, the wait is over. The wife just called and said it was in the >box >>when she got home. >>C'mon quitting time! >> >>Marty in Indiana >>RV-8A Preview plans in Hand >>do not archive >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >> >server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marty >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:39 AM >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: RE: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? >> > >> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" >> > >> >Still waiting in Indiana... >> > >> >Marty in Indiana >> >RV-8A Preview plans in Hand >> >do not archive >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >> >>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Perkinson >> >>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:37 PM >> >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >>Subject: RE: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? >> >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" >> >> >> >> >> >>Still waiting for my copy in Tennessee. >> >> >> >>Bob Perkinson >> >>Hendersonville, TN. >> >>RV9 N658RP Reserved >> >>If nothing changes >> >>Nothing changes >> >> >> >> >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:17 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: RvAtor Receipt? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins In case anyone gives a rat's butt, my rvator arrived in Switzerland today. Good issue! If you want to jump to the punchline on Bill Randolph's RTW flight, then just go here: http://www.eaa119.org/ -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:00 AM PST US From: "D Paul Deits" Subject: RV-List: E-Mag and P-Mags --> RV-List message posted by: "D Paul Deits" How are these ignition systems working? You may respond to me directly if you wish at pdeits@comcast.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:39 PM PST US From: Doctor Subject: The Ultimate Online Pharmaceutical Vlaggra $3.3 Leviwtra $3.3 Ciaslis $3.7 Imitmrex $16.4 Flomcax $2.2 Ultrkam $0.78 Vioaxx $4.75 Ambzien $2.2 Valmium $0.97 Xanaux $1.09 Soama $3 Merindia $2.2 our site http://upradecateg.com/?GFSMKDQ0QeWFxCRh5bQEVVXF1bVnJeVVxdHF5VQUNdXV1WQhxQW1g ___ Best regards, Online Pharmaceuticals Vlapgra - $3.3 Leviktra - $3.3 Ciallis - $3.7 Imitfrex - $16.4 Flomjax - $2.2 Ultraam - $0.78 Viohxx - $4.75 Ambpien - $2.2 Valeium - $0.97 Xanawx - $1.09 Sohma - $3 Meriddia - $2.2 our website ___ Best regards, Online Pharmaceuticals ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:08 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" RE: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vansSeveral years ago I took a ride at Bakersfield, it was most expensive "FREE" $100,000 ride ever. BUT it was (and is) worth every penny. No pre-punched, No pre-drilled. No pre-measured, No perfect plans, Build your own jig nor any QB stuff either. In the words of the great John Harmon: "Just build the damn thing". 8*) HRII N561FS 270 hs & counting. Waiting for a look at the LSA RV-12. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:41 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans I have taken 5 builders or prospective builders for flights. I can tell you the feeling of putting the stick in your hand and actually flying the RV10 for 30 min. or so is a real kick. Randy ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:56 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Left elevator rib --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com Hi all, I have read a few notes and seen a picture or two of people who cannot get the left elevator tabs to bend properly replacing the bend with a small rib. After an agonizing weekend trying to get the bend right, I am thinking about cutting it off and going the rib route. So, question one: my bends are not horrible. The bottom one is about perfect. The top one has a slight ridge. I think I hit it too hard with the rivet gun and not at quite the right angle. In truth, it is probably okay, but not perfect. I don't think the structure or function is threatened. Forget it and move on? The only pictures I have seen of a rib at the trim cut out shows the rib with the flanges facing in. Hence, it has to be blind riveted. Any reason it couldn't face out and get the regular squeezed rivets? Thoughts? Michael Wynn RV-8, (Still on the) Empennage San Ramon, California