Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:12 AM - Re: Left elevator rib (LarryRobertHelming)
     2. 07:13 AM - Re [4] (Colin Dodd)
     3. 07:40 AM - E 703 rib missmatch and other (Trevor)
     4. 09:41 AM - Popped Alternator Breaker (Leland)
     5. 10:21 AM - Poor Handling RV (Larry Pardue)
     6. 10:54 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Ron Lee)
     7. 10:55 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Mickey Coggins)
     8. 11:48 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Larry Pardue)
     9. 12:27 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Jamie Painter)
    10. 02:32 PM - Re: Left elevator rib (Frank Stringham)
    11. 02:37 PM -  (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
    12. 02:48 PM - 8-32 Close Quarters dimple die substitute (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
    13. 03:31 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Ron Lee)
    14. 04:33 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Vanremog@aol.com)
    15. 04:48 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (GMC)
    16. 04:54 PM - New RV8A Vetterman Exhaust for Sale (David Schaefer)
    17. 04:57 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (RV6 Flyer)
    18. 05:02 PM - Garmin GNC250XL & GTX327 Installation Manuals (David Schaefer)
    19. 06:16 PM - Tinted Canopy and UV light (Richard Scott)
 
 
 
Message 1
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Left elevator rib | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
      
      With the blind rivet you have a smoother surface exposed to the air/wind. 
      It could be a bit more efficient that way.  You could do it either way 
      however.  I did it with pop rivet.  No real concern about strength here I 
      think.
      
      Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up  SunSeeker 64 hours and still grinning
      
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued,
          is always beyond our grasp, but which,
          if one sits quietly, may light upon you."
      
      Nathaniel Hawthorne
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: <MLWynn@aol.com>
      Subject: RV-List: Left elevator rib
      
      
      > --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I have read a few notes and seen a picture or two of people who cannot get
      > the left elevator tabs to bend properly replacing the bend with a small 
      > rib.
      > After an agonizing weekend trying to get the bend right, I am thinking 
      > about
      > cutting it off and going the rib route.
      >
      > So, question one: my bends are not horrible.  The bottom one is about
      > perfect.  The top one has a slight ridge.  I think I hit it too hard with 
      > the rivet
      > gun and not at quite the right angle.  In truth, it is probably okay, but 
      > not
      > perfect.  I don't think the structure or function is threatened.  Forget 
      > it and
      > move on?
      >
      > The only pictures I have seen of a rib at the trim cut out shows the rib 
      > with
      > the flanges facing in.  Hence, it has to be blind riveted.  Any reason it
      > couldn't face out and get the regular squeezed rivets?
      >
      > Thoughts?
      >
      > Michael Wynn
      > RV-8, (Still on the) Empennage
      > San Ramon, California
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 2
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  | 
      
      
      FCC: mailbox://ywqbzla@hotmail.com/Sent
      DNA: do not archive
      Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
      
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Message 3
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | E 703 rib missmatch and other | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
      
      1)   I thank those who responded re my problem with the E703 rib not mating with
      the elevator skin.  I had to add shims to try and get the curve out of the skin
      as well as filing and squashing the top of the rib to follow the skin line.
      The suggestion that it is not the rib but the pre-bend in the skin that's at
      fault does not apply here as the left rib fitted perfectly on both sides.  Michael
      Wynn seemed to have the same problem with his -8
      
      2)   I am having a thing with Van's at the moment as they sent me two left aileron
      skins!!  But wait, thats not the end. .....
      
      3)   Today, while assembling the flaps, I discovered that in order to get the top
      skin to fit, a hefty tug is needed on the underside to get the bottom holes
      to line up.  The net result is that the flap has a drooping trailing edge!  Deceided
      to sit back and re-read and re-check my steps.  Tried the right flap which
      had exactly the same problem.  I must admit, I am at a loss as to how to
      go about fixing this.  I don't know why Van's pre-drilled the bottom skin where
      the two skins overlap - there would not be a problem if one could match drill
      the holes after lining everything up first - without the "droop". 
      
      My previous kit, an RV-6 had a darn side more  work attached but turned out to
      be perfect.  In this case it is obviously in the bend of the skin not being accuratly
      done
      
      Has anyone else had this problem and if so what was done to remedy it.  The way
      I see it is
      
          a.  get new skins and hope the problem doesn't re-occur
          b.  re-drill the bottom holes oversize thus allowing the skin to "slide back"
      a bit and use AD426-4 or pop rivets 
          c.  Ignore the pre-drilled and drill new holes between the existing, as ugly
      as it may be!
      
      Thanks in anticipation
      
      Trevor Davis RV-6 now building RV-7
      Cape Town S. Africa
      
      Do not archive
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 4
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Popped Alternator Breaker | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Leland <federigo@pacbell.net>
      
      The 60 amp breaker for my 60 amp alternator pops when all the lights are 
      on and the battery is a bit low. Total current draw for the lights and 
      everything else is less than 40 amps. No problem when the battery is 
      fully charged. The 60 amp breaker is from Van's and the alternator is 
      Van's internally regulated unit. Unfortunately I did not install an 
      ammeter so my trouble shooting is limited.  I see that Spruce sells a 70 
      amp breaker but I cannot find a 60 amp shunt ( Van's sells a 40 amp shunt).
      
      Has anybody else had a problem with this combination? If so, how did you 
      solve it?
      Leland
      38 hours on an RV9A
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 5
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      
      Greetings,
      
      A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a 
      few times.  For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a 
      lot of concentration to fly well.  On one landing attempt I even briefly 
      PIO'd.  Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally very 
      sweet handling RV's.  The contrast between my airplane, that seems to do 
      whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my 
      friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge.
      
      What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends 
      airplane has been cut off way too short.  Now I had to cut mine some to 
      clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that when I am 
      on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh.  That is not 
      what causes the problem though.  The problem is the increased sensitivity 
      combined with the increased forces required.  It also seems to amplify the 
      small amount of free play in the control system.
      
      I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons that 
      were not clear to me.  If anyone asked for my advice I would say give it a 
      lot of thought.
      
      The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable.  There is a 
      new stick on order from Van's.
      
      Larry Pardue
      Carlsbad, NM
      
      RV-6 N441LP Flying
      http://n5lp.net 
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 6
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
      
      
      >What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends
      >airplane has been cut off way too short.
      
      
      I find this hard to believe.  Mine is cut off such that it may be 3 inches 
      higher
      than my upper thigh and I fly with my fingers that far below the top of the
      stick.
      
      Mine flies fine and my landings are typically very good.  I will measure from
      the linkage and provide a better measurement later.
      
      Personally I cannot imagine flying with my hand not resting on my leg using
      fingertip control. And I am no Chuck Yeager.
      
      Ron Lee
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 7
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
      
      > What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends 
      > airplane has been cut off way too short. ... 
      
      Please let us know how this turns out.  If you had asked
      me to guess what the problem is I would have thought some
      kind of W&B issue.
      
      -- 
      Mickey Coggins
      http://www.rv8.ch/
      #82007 finishing
      
      
      do not archive
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 8
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      
      
      > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
      >
      >> What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends
      >> airplane has been cut off way too short. ...
      >
      > Please let us know how this turns out.  If you had asked
      > me to guess what the problem is I would have thought some
      > kind of W&B issue.
      >
      
      The stick on the right side is normal length.  The airplane flies fine from 
      that side.
      
      Larry Pardue 
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 9
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
      
      Larry.
      
      This is very interesting.  Wouldn't you be able to compare the handling 
      of your RV against your friend's by holding onto your stick a little 
      lower?  I would measure his stick, put a mark on yours at the same 
      height and try to fly from there.  Would be an interesting test.
      
        - Jamie
      
      do not archive
      
      On Sep 24, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Larry Pardue wrote:
      
      > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" 
      > <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      >
      > Greetings,
      >
      > A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly 
      > it a
      > few times.  For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and 
      > takes a
      > lot of concentration to fly well.  On one landing attempt I even 
      > briefly
      > PIO'd.  Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally 
      > very
      > sweet handling RV's.  The contrast between my airplane, that seems to 
      > do
      > whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my
      > friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge.
      >
      > What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends
      > airplane has been cut off way too short.  Now I had to cut mine some to
      > clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that 
      > when I am
      > on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh.  That 
      > is not
      > what causes the problem though.  The problem is the increased 
      > sensitivity
      > combined with the increased forces required.  It also seems to amplify 
      > the
      > small amount of free play in the control system.
      >
      > I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons 
      > that
      > were not clear to me.  If anyone asked for my advice I would say give 
      > it a
      > lot of thought.
      >
      > The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable.  
      > There is a
      > new stick on order from Van's.
      >
      > Larry Pardue
      > Carlsbad, NM
      >
      > RV-6 N441LP Flying
      > http://n5lp.net
      >
      >
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 10
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Left elevator rib | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
      
      Michael
      
      I too had some problems deciding what to do and just about did the rib vs 
      bend. But I had a difficult time making an acceptable rib....But. after 
      making a the wood plug to the exact angle / shape of the tab, putting two 
      sided tape on the enterior of the skin to hold the wood in place, and 
      clamping the edge securely I did the bend. It came out just fine. If I were 
      to do it again I would probably use the gun with mushroom set on very low 
      pressure to make the bend a little more crisp.
      
      Frank @ SGU and SLC. slow build just about to a quick build stage
      
      
      >From: MLWynn@aol.com
      >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
      >To: rv-list@matronics.com
      >Subject: RV-List: Left elevator rib
      >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:52:49 EDT
      >
      >--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
      >
      >Hi all,
      >
      >I have read a few notes and seen a picture or two of people who cannot get
      >the left elevator tabs to bend properly replacing the bend with a small 
      >rib.
      >After an agonizing weekend trying to get the bend right, I am thinking 
      >about
      >cutting it off and going the rib route.
      >
      >So, question one: my bends are not horrible.  The bottom one is about
      >perfect.  The top one has a slight ridge.  I think I hit it too hard with 
      >the rivet
      >gun and not at quite the right angle.  In truth, it is probably okay, but 
      >not
      >perfect.  I don't think the structure or function is threatened.  Forget it 
      >and
      >move on?
      >
      >The only pictures I have seen of a rib at the trim cut out shows the rib 
      >with
      >the flanges facing in.  Hence, it has to be blind riveted.  Any reason it
      >couldn't face out and get the regular squeezed rivets?
      >
      >Thoughts?
      >
      >Michael Wynn
      >RV-8, (Still on the) Empennage
      >San Ramon, California
      >
      >
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 11
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  | 
      
      
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
      
      http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html
      
      I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to
      easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do.  This
      way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem
      on the thicker fuel tank material.  The instructions don't want you to
      countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great.
      
      So here it is for others to consider.
      
      Lucky
      
      http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html
      
      I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to
      easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This
      way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem
      on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to countersink
      the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great.
      
      So here it is for others to consider.
      
      Lucky
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 12
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | 8-32 Close Quarters dimple die substitute | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
      
      
      -------------- Original message -------------- 
      
      > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) 
      > 
      > http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html 
      > 
      > I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how
      to 
      > easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This
      
      > way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same 
      > problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to
      
      > countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. 
      > 
      > So here it is for others to consider. 
      > 
      > Lucky 
      > 
      > http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html 
      > 
      > I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how
      to 
      > easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This
      way 
      > beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem
      
      > on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to 
      > countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. 
      > 
      > So here it is for others to consider. 
      > 
      > Lucky 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      -------------- Original message -------------- 
      
       -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) 
      
       http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html 
      
       I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to
      
       easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This 
       way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same 
       problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to
      
       countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. 
      
       So here it is for others to consider. 
      
       Lucky 
      
       http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html 
      
       I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to
      
       easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way
      
       beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem
      
       on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to 
       countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. 
      
       So here it is for others to consider. 
      
       Lucky 
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 13
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
      
      The distance from the welded "bend" in the control stick (below
      the seat and across from the fore-aft bolt) is 11.5 inches.  I
      fly with my fingers 2-3 inches below the top of the stick.
      
      Ron Lee
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 14
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
      
      
      In a message dated 9/24/2005 10:56:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
      mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes:
      
      
      >  What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends  
      > airplane has been cut off way too short. ... 
      
      Please let us  know how this turns out.  If you had asked
      me to guess what the  problem is I would have thought some
      kind of W&B  issue.
      
      
      ================================
      
      Or static friction in the system.  I once (at the first condition  
      inspection) thought I noticed just a little slop in the pivot bolt and  tightened
      the 
      castle nut on the pilot's side just one extra flat (1/6th of a  turn) to reduce
      
      it.  This destroyed the nice light handling  of 6A that I liked so much.  I 
      landed and corrected it  immediately.
      
      I find that prefer to have the very lightest control forces  possible, as 
      this makes for much more enjoyable flying plane for  me. 
      
      GV (RV-6A  N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765 hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) 
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 15
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
      
      Hi Larry
      
      Check for friction in elevator bushings, this can make for poor handling 
      especially with aft CofG.
      
      George in Langley BC
      
      >--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      >
      >Greetings,
      >
      >A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a 
      >few times.  For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a 
      >lot of concentration to fly well. 
      >  
      >
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 16
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | New RV8A Vetterman Exhaust for Sale | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
      
      Posted for Robert Lynch:
      
      I purchased the incorrect RV8A exhaust for my project.  I have a brand new
      Vetterman EXH8A IO360M1B for sale $700.00 and I'll pay the shipping. The EGT
      holes are already drilled.
      
      Please email rv6lynch@earthlink.net or call 573-893-2291.
      
      Thank you.
      
      Robert Lynch 
      Jefferson City, MO.
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 17
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| Subject:  | Poor Handling RV | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
      
      Larry:
      
      I trust your judgment.  I learn something new every day.
      
      I would have guessed that it was TAIL HEAVY with an AFT CG first and second 
      would have been the stick length.  Both together would really be a hand 
      full.
      
      Gary A. Sobek
      "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
      1,776 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
      http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
      
      
      ----Original Message Follows----
      From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      Subject: RV-List: Poor Handling RV
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
      
      Greetings,
      
      A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a
      few times.  For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a
      lot of concentration to fly well.  On one landing attempt I even briefly
      PIO'd.  Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally very
      sweet handling RV's.  The contrast between my airplane, that seems to do
      whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my
      friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge.
      
      What causes this large difference?  Simply that the stick on my friends
      airplane has been cut off way too short.  Now I had to cut mine some to
      clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that when I am
      on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh.  That is not
      what causes the problem though.  The problem is the increased sensitivity
      combined with the increased forces required.  It also seems to amplify the
      small amount of free play in the control system.
      
      I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons that
      were not clear to me.  If anyone asked for my advice I would say give it a
      lot of thought.
      
      The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable.  There is a
      new stick on order from Van's.
      
      Larry Pardue
      Carlsbad, NM
      
      RV-6 N441LP Flying
      http://n5lp.net
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 18
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  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Garmin GNC250XL & GTX327 Installation Manuals | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
      
      Can some one please email me the Garmin GNC250XL and GTX327 installation
      manual .PDF?
      
      
      Regards,
      
      
      David W. Schaefer
      
      N142DS
      
      www.n142ds.com <http://www.n142ds.com/> 
      
      
      DO NOT ARCHIVE
      
      
      
      
      
      
Message 19
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| Subject:  | Tinted Canopy and UV light | 
      
      --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
      
      We had a UV meter at work & I measured the UV reduction on  clear piece of 
      canopy scrap.  There was a 93% reduction in UV.  However, I have no way of 
      knowing what portion of the UV spectrum the meter was measuring vs. the 
      most harmful portion of the spectrum.
      
      
      
      
      
      
 
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