---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/24/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - Re: Left elevator rib (LarryRobertHelming) 2. 07:13 AM - Re [4] (Colin Dodd) 3. 07:40 AM - E 703 rib missmatch and other (Trevor) 4. 09:41 AM - Popped Alternator Breaker (Leland) 5. 10:21 AM - Poor Handling RV (Larry Pardue) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Ron Lee) 7. 10:55 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Mickey Coggins) 8. 11:48 AM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Larry Pardue) 9. 12:27 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Jamie Painter) 10. 02:32 PM - Re: Left elevator rib (Frank Stringham) 11. 02:37 PM - (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 12. 02:48 PM - 8-32 Close Quarters dimple die substitute (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 13. 03:31 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Ron Lee) 14. 04:33 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (Vanremog@aol.com) 15. 04:48 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (GMC) 16. 04:54 PM - New RV8A Vetterman Exhaust for Sale (David Schaefer) 17. 04:57 PM - Re: Poor Handling RV (RV6 Flyer) 18. 05:02 PM - Garmin GNC250XL & GTX327 Installation Manuals (David Schaefer) 19. 06:16 PM - Tinted Canopy and UV light (Richard Scott) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:04 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Left elevator rib --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" With the blind rivet you have a smoother surface exposed to the air/wind. It could be a bit more efficient that way. You could do it either way however. I did it with pop rivet. No real concern about strength here I think. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 64 hours and still grinning ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Happiness: like a butterfly, when pursued, is always beyond our grasp, but which, if one sits quietly, may light upon you." Nathaniel Hawthorne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Left elevator rib > --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com > > Hi all, > > I have read a few notes and seen a picture or two of people who cannot get > the left elevator tabs to bend properly replacing the bend with a small > rib. > After an agonizing weekend trying to get the bend right, I am thinking > about > cutting it off and going the rib route. > > So, question one: my bends are not horrible. The bottom one is about > perfect. The top one has a slight ridge. I think I hit it too hard with > the rivet > gun and not at quite the right angle. In truth, it is probably okay, but > not > perfect. I don't think the structure or function is threatened. Forget > it and > move on? > > The only pictures I have seen of a rib at the trim cut out shows the rib > with > the flanges facing in. Hence, it has to be blind riveted. Any reason it > couldn't face out and get the regular squeezed rivets? > > Thoughts? > > Michael Wynn > RV-8, (Still on the) Empennage > San Ramon, California > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:34 AM PST US FCC: mailbox://ywqbzla@hotmail.com/Sent From: Colin Dodd Subject: Re [4] DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:36 AM PST US From: "Trevor" Subject: RV-List: E 703 rib missmatch and other --> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" 1) I thank those who responded re my problem with the E703 rib not mating with the elevator skin. I had to add shims to try and get the curve out of the skin as well as filing and squashing the top of the rib to follow the skin line. The suggestion that it is not the rib but the pre-bend in the skin that's at fault does not apply here as the left rib fitted perfectly on both sides. Michael Wynn seemed to have the same problem with his -8 2) I am having a thing with Van's at the moment as they sent me two left aileron skins!! But wait, thats not the end. ..... 3) Today, while assembling the flaps, I discovered that in order to get the top skin to fit, a hefty tug is needed on the underside to get the bottom holes to line up. The net result is that the flap has a drooping trailing edge! Deceided to sit back and re-read and re-check my steps. Tried the right flap which had exactly the same problem. I must admit, I am at a loss as to how to go about fixing this. I don't know why Van's pre-drilled the bottom skin where the two skins overlap - there would not be a problem if one could match drill the holes after lining everything up first - without the "droop". My previous kit, an RV-6 had a darn side more work attached but turned out to be perfect. In this case it is obviously in the bend of the skin not being accuratly done Has anyone else had this problem and if so what was done to remedy it. The way I see it is a. get new skins and hope the problem doesn't re-occur b. re-drill the bottom holes oversize thus allowing the skin to "slide back" a bit and use AD426-4 or pop rivets c. Ignore the pre-drilled and drill new holes between the existing, as ugly as it may be! Thanks in anticipation Trevor Davis RV-6 now building RV-7 Cape Town S. Africa Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:56 AM PST US From: Leland Subject: RV-List: Popped Alternator Breaker --> RV-List message posted by: Leland The 60 amp breaker for my 60 amp alternator pops when all the lights are on and the battery is a bit low. Total current draw for the lights and everything else is less than 40 amps. No problem when the battery is fully charged. The 60 amp breaker is from Van's and the alternator is Van's internally regulated unit. Unfortunately I did not install an ammeter so my trouble shooting is limited. I see that Spruce sells a 70 amp breaker but I cannot find a 60 amp shunt ( Van's sells a 40 amp shunt). Has anybody else had a problem with this combination? If so, how did you solve it? Leland 38 hours on an RV9A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:58 AM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" Greetings, A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a few times. For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a lot of concentration to fly well. On one landing attempt I even briefly PIO'd. Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally very sweet handling RV's. The contrast between my airplane, that seems to do whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge. What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends airplane has been cut off way too short. Now I had to cut mine some to clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that when I am on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh. That is not what causes the problem though. The problem is the increased sensitivity combined with the increased forces required. It also seems to amplify the small amount of free play in the control system. I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons that were not clear to me. If anyone asked for my advice I would say give it a lot of thought. The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable. There is a new stick on order from Van's. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:58 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends >airplane has been cut off way too short. I find this hard to believe. Mine is cut off such that it may be 3 inches higher than my upper thigh and I fly with my fingers that far below the top of the stick. Mine flies fine and my landings are typically very good. I will measure from the linkage and provide a better measurement later. Personally I cannot imagine flying with my hand not resting on my leg using fingertip control. And I am no Chuck Yeager. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:35 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends > airplane has been cut off way too short. ... Please let us know how this turns out. If you had asked me to guess what the problem is I would have thought some kind of W&B issue. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:10 AM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >> What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends >> airplane has been cut off way too short. ... > > Please let us know how this turns out. If you had asked > me to guess what the problem is I would have thought some > kind of W&B issue. > The stick on the right side is normal length. The airplane flies fine from that side. Larry Pardue ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:09 PM PST US From: Jamie Painter Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter Larry. This is very interesting. Wouldn't you be able to compare the handling of your RV against your friend's by holding onto your stick a little lower? I would measure his stick, put a mark on yours at the same height and try to fly from there. Would be an interesting test. - Jamie do not archive On Sep 24, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Larry Pardue wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > > > Greetings, > > A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly > it a > few times. For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and > takes a > lot of concentration to fly well. On one landing attempt I even > briefly > PIO'd. Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally > very > sweet handling RV's. The contrast between my airplane, that seems to > do > whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my > friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge. > > What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends > airplane has been cut off way too short. Now I had to cut mine some to > clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that > when I am > on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh. That > is not > what causes the problem though. The problem is the increased > sensitivity > combined with the increased forces required. It also seems to amplify > the > small amount of free play in the control system. > > I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons > that > were not clear to me. If anyone asked for my advice I would say give > it a > lot of thought. > > The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable. > There is a > new stick on order from Van's. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP Flying > http://n5lp.net > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:50 PM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: RE: RV-List: Left elevator rib --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" Michael I too had some problems deciding what to do and just about did the rib vs bend. But I had a difficult time making an acceptable rib....But. after making a the wood plug to the exact angle / shape of the tab, putting two sided tape on the enterior of the skin to hold the wood in place, and clamping the edge securely I did the bend. It came out just fine. If I were to do it again I would probably use the gun with mushroom set on very low pressure to make the bend a little more crisp. Frank @ SGU and SLC. slow build just about to a quick build stage >From: MLWynn@aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Left elevator rib >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:52:49 EDT > >--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com > >Hi all, > >I have read a few notes and seen a picture or two of people who cannot get >the left elevator tabs to bend properly replacing the bend with a small >rib. >After an agonizing weekend trying to get the bend right, I am thinking >about >cutting it off and going the rib route. > >So, question one: my bends are not horrible. The bottom one is about >perfect. The top one has a slight ridge. I think I hit it too hard with >the rivet >gun and not at quite the right angle. In truth, it is probably okay, but >not >perfect. I don't think the structure or function is threatened. Forget it >and >move on? > >The only pictures I have seen of a rib at the trim cut out shows the rib >with >the flanges facing in. Hence, it has to be blind riveted. Any reason it >couldn't face out and get the regular squeezed rivets? > >Thoughts? > >Michael Wynn >RV-8, (Still on the) Empennage >San Ramon, California > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:17 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. So here it is for others to consider. Lucky http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. So here it is for others to consider. Lucky ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:37 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: 8-32 Close Quarters dimple die substitute --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html > > I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to > easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This > way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same > problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to > countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. > > So here it is for others to consider. > > Lucky > > http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html > > I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to > easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way > beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem > on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to > countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. > > So here it is for others to consider. > > Lucky > > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. So here it is for others to consider. Lucky http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html I'm almost ready to take the plane to the airport and just now I learned how to easily dimple 8/32 holes that I couldn't get my hand squeezer in to do. This way beat using a regular flush head screw and nutplate to overcome the same problem on the thicker fuel tank material. The instructions don't want you to countersink the holes if you can avoid it and this did the job great. So here it is for others to consider. Lucky ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:37 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee The distance from the welded "bend" in the control stick (below the seat and across from the fore-aft bolt) is 11.5 inches. I fly with my fingers 2-3 inches below the top of the stick. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:25 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/24/2005 10:56:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: > What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends > airplane has been cut off way too short. ... Please let us know how this turns out. If you had asked me to guess what the problem is I would have thought some kind of W&B issue. ================================ Or static friction in the system. I once (at the first condition inspection) thought I noticed just a little slop in the pivot bolt and tightened the castle nut on the pilot's side just one extra flat (1/6th of a turn) to reduce it. This destroyed the nice light handling of 6A that I liked so much. I landed and corrected it immediately. I find that prefer to have the very lightest control forces possible, as this makes for much more enjoyable flying plane for me. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765 hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:34 PM PST US From: GMC Subject: Re: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: GMC Hi Larry Check for friction in elevator bushings, this can make for poor handling especially with aft CofG. George in Langley BC >--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > >Greetings, > >A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a >few times. For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a >lot of concentration to fly well. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:09 PM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: New RV8A Vetterman Exhaust for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" Posted for Robert Lynch: I purchased the incorrect RV8A exhaust for my project. I have a brand new Vetterman EXH8A IO360M1B for sale $700.00 and I'll pay the shipping. The EGT holes are already drilled. Please email rv6lynch@earthlink.net or call 573-893-2291. Thank you. Robert Lynch Jefferson City, MO. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:45 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Larry: I trust your judgment. I learn something new every day. I would have guessed that it was TAIL HEAVY with an AFT CG first and second would have been the stick length. Both together would really be a hand full. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,776 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: RV-List: Poor Handling RV --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" Greetings, A friend recently bought an RV-6 and I have had the opportunity to fly it a few times. For me this airplane is marginally unpleasant to fly and takes a lot of concentration to fly well. On one landing attempt I even briefly PIO'd. Not something I would have ever expected to do in the normally very sweet handling RV's. The contrast between my airplane, that seems to do whatever I wish it to do, without conscious thought or effort, and my friends airplane, that I am not very comfortable in, is huge. What causes this large difference? Simply that the stick on my friends airplane has been cut off way too short. Now I had to cut mine some to clear all the engine controls, but this one is cut off so far that when I am on the end of the stick my arm still interferes with my thigh. That is not what causes the problem though. The problem is the increased sensitivity combined with the increased forces required. It also seems to amplify the small amount of free play in the control system. I have seen discussion of cutting the stick off on RV's for reasons that were not clear to me. If anyone asked for my advice I would say give it a lot of thought. The good thing is that this problem is fairly easily remediable. There is a new stick on order from Van's. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:36 PM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: Garmin GNC250XL & GTX327 Installation Manuals --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" Can some one please email me the Garmin GNC250XL and GTX327 installation manual .PDF? Regards, David W. Schaefer N142DS www.n142ds.com DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:44 PM PST US From: Richard Scott Subject: RV-List: Tinted Canopy and UV light --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott We had a UV meter at work & I measured the UV reduction on clear piece of canopy scrap. There was a 93% reduction in UV. However, I have no way of knowing what portion of the UV spectrum the meter was measuring vs. the most harmful portion of the spectrum.