Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Urgent Bunny Page Safety Update Request (Vincent Himsl)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (gert)
3. 05:46 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Ed Anderson)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Canopy Crack Fix (linn walters)
5. 07:40 AM - Re: Alternate FAB box install pics (rv6fly)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO (bertrv6@highstream.net)
7. 08:09 AM - Re: RV8QB flap attachment (David Leonard)
8. 09:01 AM - Builders Wanted (Dave Saylor)
9. 09:20 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Jeff Point)
10. 09:21 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Rob Prior (rv7))
11. 09:49 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Bob)
12. 10:07 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
13. 10:10 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Larry Pardue)
14. 10:23 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Ed Holyoke)
15. 10:50 AM - Builders tools for sale (MStudio828@aol.com)
16. 11:00 AM - Annual & Maintanence Tools for Sale (MStudio828@aol.com)
17. 11:06 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Jeff Point)
18. 11:18 AM - engine import fees? ()
19. 11:18 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Jeff Point)
20. 11:28 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
21. 11:37 AM - LOE fuel stops (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
22. 11:39 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Mike Robertson)
23. 11:39 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Greg Young)
24. 11:42 AM - Re: engine import fees? (Mike Robertson)
25. 12:07 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
26. 12:53 PM - Re: RV8QB flap attachment (Craig)
27. 02:02 PM - Re: LOE fuel stops (Ron Lee)
28. 02:25 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (wskimike)
29. 02:39 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Alex Peterson)
30. 02:56 PM - Follow-up - BPE Engine Rebuild Seminar (Matthew Brandes)
31. 03:06 PM - First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors (Daniel Snow)
32. 03:22 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (linn walters)
33. 03:30 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Darrell Reiley)
34. 03:31 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Rob Prior (rv7))
35. 03:48 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Terry Watson)
36. 04:12 PM - Re: Annual & Maintanence Tools for Sale (Mauri Morin)
37. 05:28 PM - Re: First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors (D.Bristol)
38. 05:56 PM - Re: engine import fees? (Doug Weiler)
39. 06:44 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Ed Holyoke)
40. 06:47 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
41. 07:27 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Ron Lee)
42. 07:48 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Vanremog@aol.com)
43. 08:21 PM - Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO (Bill Schlatterer)
44. 08:28 PM - Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO (Jerry Springer)
45. 08:38 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Robin Marks)
46. 09:22 PM - Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO (JOHN STARN)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Urgent Bunny Page Safety Update Request |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
Hello,
I am sending this email to you as the email link on the bunny list is not
correct.
In the section on 'spars and ribs', under 'Wings', is a list of items to
purchase with a recommendation from me to buy a cheap $12.00 flaring tool. I
have sent a lot of email to the RV list (including this one) correcting this
statement as it is not only wrong (I tossed the cheap one and bought the
Avery one), but if followed dangerous! Dangerous in that builders might
possibly miss the fact that an automotive 45degree flaring tool is not
correct for the aircraft fuel line fittings. This is pointed out in the
plans too.
I had sent an email a year or so ago requesting this change to the bunny
pages and you (Matt Draille) corrected it immediately. So I was extremely
surprised and distressed to see that somehow the old uncorrected reference
returned.
Please either correct statement #11 to say; "I wound up ordering the
official flaring tool from Avery as the cheap one was neither suitable nor
safe" or remove my name from the bunny list.
As the bunny list now stands, I am recommending that people hook up their
fuel lines with a cheap unsafe (45degree) tool.
Needless to say I am extremely worried about this as over a thousand people
have visited this page.
Please reply when the change has been made.
Thanks!
Vince Himsl
RV8 - Finish
Moscow, ID. USA
Below is taken from Bunny's Guide..
A Bunny with Wings
Part 1: Spars and Rib Preparation
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 17:16:44
Visitors=
_____
Part 2: A Bunny with Wings
The big day dawned; my wing kit arrived. Two big boxes, (14' 4" x 10" x 8",
255lbs and 96" x 31" x 10", 260lbs) each needing two blokes to lift.
<http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/bunnys-guide/rv/photos/2a/01.jpg> Wing kit
arrives
I'd decided beforehand to do the ailerons first, since they're more or less
the same construction technique as the empennage control surfaces. I'll
leave the spars, etc until later; ie until I've got some courage together!
:-) This also delays the day when I need to move my workshop out of my spare
room and into the garage (hopefully until after winter!).
Van's manual for wing building is not as good as for the empennage; I'd say
that Frank Justice's manual is a must-have. Generally, I refer to this
manual as FJ. However, since it was all written for non-prepunched, some
doesn't apply. Even more useful is Will Cretsinger's notes... I refer to
these as WC.
RV-List message posted by: Vince Himsl <vhimsl@turbonet.com>: Below are some
'extras' that I have bought while working on the wings.
1. Special #30 X 1/2 CounterSink Bit from Avery for the gas tank bolt
attach points on the spar. Check their catalogue first but I think this is
the correct description.
2. The tube type fluorescent light and telescoping mirror for looking
inside the leading edge (often).
3. An offset 470AD4 rivet gun head with one side flattened for the leading
edge ribs to spar attachment. I had an offset and flattened it on one side.
4. A hole saw or knock out punch @ 14mm to make a hole in each rib for the
plastic conduit from Van's. Makes the hole just big enough to allow you to
pull the conduit through and then hold it in place when you let it go.
5. Some sort of jack arrangement to keep centre of spar/rib assembly from
sagging prior to installation of skins. I used the 1/4" bolts and blocks
from the empennage inserted into each end of a wooden dowel (closet size,
@1.5"). cost= $0.00
6. #6 and #8 dimple dies if you don't already have them. I also bought the
#6 and #8 Counter Sink Bits. Used for access plates, gas tanks.
7. A rivet shaver for the 'crappy' gas tank rivet job. Don't ask me how I
know (:>))
8. An inch-lb torque wrench. Used for tie down assembly and aileron
control, empennage, etc.
9. #D, #19, #21(I think) drill bitts. Used on tanks, access plates.
10. I bought some NAS1097(?) 'ooops' rivets from Vans. I used them for
426AD3 spar holes that I had countersunk too deep.
11. A flaring tool for the vent, gas, and pitot line (cheap one will
do...@$12.00 US).
12. Angles, brackets, etc for modifying the empennage jig to hold the wing.
13. rose coloured glasses...self explanatory. (:>))
14. Paint booth/area. Mine is 4 x 6 x 7 feet made with 1x2 framing and
cheap plastic($4.00 from Wal-Mart0.
For the tanks:
A wire brush bit for your cordless drill. (to sc....
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
yes, never the less, when Van's started looking into anodizing the
spars, the spars did have a reduced fatigue life.
so rather than outliving us by two lives the now outlive us by one life ;-)
pretty much any time you introduce a hard surface on a flexible material
you decrease the fatigue life because the hard material will form the
initial cracks which will eventually propagate.
>
>============================
>
>Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO, the
>cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My wing spars are
>also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that Van's ships. They are a
>thing of beauty and I guarantee you that those spars will outlive us all.
>
>GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
You are correct. As best I recall, the article in RvAtor indicated that the
reduced life of the spar limited it to approx 25,000 hours of flight and
that included a very heavy percentage of acrobat stress hours. I could only
hope to live and fly long enough for a spar to fail due to Anodizing {:>)
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "gert" <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles
> --> RV-List message posted by: gert <gert.v@sbcglobal.net>
>
> yes, never the less, when Van's started looking into anodizing the
> spars, the spars did have a reduced fatigue life.
> so rather than outliving us by two lives the now outlive us by one life
> ;-)
>
> pretty much any time you introduce a hard surface on a flexible material
> you decrease the fatigue life because the hard material will form the
> initial cracks which will eventually propagate.
>
>
>>
>>============================
>>
>>Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO, the
>>cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My wing
>>spars are
>>also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that Van's ships. They are
>>a
>>thing of beauty and I guarantee you that those spars will outlive us all.
>>
>>GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Crack Fix |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
John Erickson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Erickson" <Droopy@ericksonjc.com>
>
> Ok, the question I hoped I'd never have to ask... And no, this isn't a
>"my canopy cracked while I was drilling it" question... Almost...
>
>There I was... Beautiful Nevada day (hot as hades) descending at about
>200kts to beat a Baron into North Las Vegas. Soft muffled pop sounds and
>a little extra wind noise... Can't see anything and the rest of the
>arrival/landing are uneventful. Post-flight I find a crack in the canopy
>of my RV-8 on the right side about 18 inches forward of the back end of
>it. Crack goes from the skirt up about 3/4's of the way to the top of
>the canopy (straight up). I'm thinking of trying to fix it by wicking
>some Weld-On #3 into it and stop drilling the end. (I know it won't be
>pretty, but it is WAY outta the line of sight unless some F-16 is
>gunning me, and I don't really have the time yet to fit a new canopy.
>(Hopefully can do that next year...))
>
>Questions are...
>
>Am I out to lunch thinking I may be able to fix this without making a
>new canopy (at least temporarily)?
>
No. My Pitts canopy cracked almost 6 years ago (head hit in outside
snap!) and when I spread it to get the Weldon in there real good, a
piece the size of a dinner plate came loose. Because the canopy is
stressed a little, the piece didn't fit very well, but I glued it back
in, sanded the 'bump' down and polished it out. You're right, it's
ugly, but it's been there ever since.
>Would you try to stop-drill this or just wick in the Weld-On (ie am I
>going to cause even more stress areas by stopdrilling)?
>
I didn't stop drill mine because the whole chunk came out. I'd stop
drill it with a small drill. There is still stress there and it
probably will propagate. Fill the small hole with silicone.
>What size and type of drill to use?
>
Ideally, a drill with a 'plastic point. You can use a std. drill if you go slow
and don't press hardly at all. If you drill 1/2 way from the inside and then
finish the hole from thhe outside (easier) then you lessen the drillcracking
syndrome a lot. The stop drill hole also gives you a good place to start witcking
the Weldon down into the crack. Get a syringe like diabetics use to apply
the Weldon. It's runnier (less viscous?) than water so it doesn't take much
to flow.
Now, for some unasked advice. When you attach the canopy to a rigid frame with
a point-contact fastener like a rivet or screw, drill a really large hole so
that the fastener doesn't even come close to the side of the hole. It's that pressure
on the side of the hole that causes most of the cracks. Tightening the
fastener down snug is also going to cause problems later on. Ideally, if the
canopy could 'float' a little that would be better. those folks that are using
Sikaflex or other flexible 'glues' are headed in the right direction. Our
canopies are acrylic, and over time will shrink as the plasticisers in the acrylic
boil off. That's what makes canopies (and windows) to become brittle over
time and crack from the mechanical pressure of the fasteners.
I am, by no means, an expert. This just comes from experience.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
>RV-10 #40208
>Flying RV-8 (Bought not built...)
>
>
>
>
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate FAB box install pics |
--> RV-List message posted by: rv6fly <rv6fly@bresnan.net>
Ed,
Thanks for the link to the pics! That's what I was looking for.
Thanks Dick for chiming in as well.
I was having a bit of a problem understanding what my builder was
telling me about the FAB box. I was also very curious how Van designed
the alternate air source. Then it dawned on me. Van's changed the
design of the FAB! My builder was talking about cutting and changing
angles on the inlet and this had me baffled. For the guys with new
kits, the old FAB box had space between the fiberglass bottom and the
bottom of the K&N filter. You used a metal plate to close off the
bottom of the filter. I didn't do any "cutting or bending" of the FAB
box on my plane or the 6AS in Gillette that I helped build and don't
know why you have to do it now. Maybe it would make sense if I could
look at the installation.
Thanks, Bob Skinner
do not archive
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
>Hey Bob,
>
>Try this:
>
>http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5296
>
>I've been looking at it lately and he credits you. Van's has an
>alternate air flap setup that they'll supply free. Give them a call.
>
>Pax
>
>Ed Holyoke
>
>
>
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
>
> I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
> pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
> to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
> but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
> cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
> I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
> From: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
> I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
> $119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
> kills someone.
> John Ciolino
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >
> > All,
> > Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
> > per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
> > concerned it is just a pile of junk.
> >
> > Bob Perkinson
> > Hendersonville, TN.
>
>
> I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
> pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
> to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
> but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
> cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
> I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
>
>
> --Mark Navratil
>
>
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>
>
> RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
>
>
> From: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
>
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
>
>
> I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
>
>
> $119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
>
>
> kills someone.
>
>
> John Ciolino
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
>
>
> All,
>
>
> Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
>
>
> per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
>
>
> concerned it is just a pile of junk.
>
>
> Bob Perkinson
>
>
> Hendersonville, TN.
>
Bob: When I was building, from the very first day, I got Construction" Policy
whcih covers your project, for the amount you paid, and liability, believe
It I know, in any policy, Liability is a major concern...Just like auto
or Home....trust me...I got it thru Avemco, very good service and it was
cheap...
Now, when flying and I want to insured my plane, that is another matter, still
they have good rates...
Bert
rv6a
flying my 40hrs..
do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV8QB flap attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
I had a similar experience to that of Dick's. Worse, on the same side I was
having the problem, in the down position part of that upper flap skin was
able to work up around the wing skin - but I didn't see it. Then when I
raised the flap with the motor it tweaked both the flap skin and the wing
skin. It has never been quite right since. I ended up using some safety wire
to "stitch" the upper flap skin in the proper place to prevent it from
hitting the rear spar or popping out above the wing skin (in the down
position).
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
On 9/27/05, Dick DeCramer <diesel@rconnect.com> wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
>
> I had the problem with my RV6. I bought a tube of Prussian Blue from NAPA
> and spread it on the flap to determine where the curved portion of the
> flap
> skin actually hit. The forward bent portion of the skin had to be reformed
> so the flap could be moved up more. I ended up bending with my seamers the
> inboard 12" to 16" of the flap skin into fairly tight radius where it had
> run into something on the rear spar. I also had the bottom skin of the
> flap hang up on the bottom of the fuselage preventing the flap from
> assuming a fully retracted, in trail position. This required careful
> trimming of the inboard trailing edge of the flap to allow it to travel up
> the side of the fuselage into the in trail position while leaving enough
> of
> the bottom forward inboard skin to cover the hole cut in the fuselage for
> the flap push rod when the flap is retracted. I also joggled the inboard
> 4" or so of the remaining bottom lower flap skin to get more flap movement
> in the up direction. This entire process took some careful thought and
> cautious trimming as the flaps would first bottom on the top curl of the
> top flap skin and the rear spar then, alternately, the bottom skin would
> hang up on the fuselage meaning I had to work two problems at once.
> Eventually, I got the flaps bent and trimmed correctly. Hope this helps.
>
> Dick DeCramer
> N500DD RV6 slide
> 87 hours to date
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Paul Rice <rice737@msn.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/27/2005 10:01:54 PM
> > Subject: RV-List: RV8QB flap attachment
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Rice" <rice737@msn.com>
> >
> > HI all,
> >
> > I'm just about ready to install my flaps on the wings. With the aileron
> in
> > its neutral position, it seems that when I line the trailing edges of
> the
> > flap and aileron, (yes I will need the wider -4 hinge), the upper flap
> skin
> > hits the aft wing spar. Has anyone run into this problem before, do I
> need
> > to tighten the radius of the curve that slides under the upper wing
> skin?
> >
> > Thank you
> > Paul
> >
> >
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
Hello All,
AirCrafters LLC is looking for help! We need builders experienced with
avionics, airframe construction, powerplant installation, maintenance, and
repair. We work on all types of experimental aircraft from ultralights to
turboprops. We're located at Watsonville Airport (WVI) near Monterey,
California. Starting wages are $20-$25/hr. If you love building airplanes,
please email a cover letter and resume to jobs@AirCraftersLLC.com. Please
see www.AirCraftersLLC.com for more information.
Thanks,
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
831-722-9141
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I'll do some looking, but IIRC the fatigue life of the annodized spar
was more like 8-9,000 hours. Still a lot, but not unattainable.
Jeff Point
>You are correct. As best I recall, the article in RvAtor indicated that the
>reduced life of the spar limited it to approx 25,000 hours of flight
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO,
> the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My
> wing spars are also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that
> Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty and I guarantee you that
> those spars will outlive us all.
Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
Alodyning is a chromic acid conversion process that leaves a corrosion
resistant film on aluminum surfaces. I am not familiar enough with the
process to know what effect it has on fatigue life, but if Vans is putting
it on my spars, i'm confident it won't hurt me.
Anodizing is a hard coating applied to aluminum surfaces to protect the
finish from wear, corrosion, etc. It could significantly affect the
fatigue life of the part, as it makes a much harder surface on the shell of
the unit. If flexed (like a wing spar), that hard surface could crack due
to it's hardness, leading to any number of corrosion or fatigue problems.
For baffles in the engine compartment though, I suspect you would easily be
able to detect problems before they became serious. Just make inspecting
for cracks part of your regular 100-hour or Annual inspection. As they
say, "it's not structural".
-Rob Prior
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pricing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and
leave the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 12
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| Subject: | anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Umm, don't know about other RV's but the -10 main spar is most certainly anodized
NOT alodined.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Ailerons
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Prior (rv7)
Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO,
> the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My
> wing spars are also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that
> Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty and I guarantee you that
> those spars will outlive us all.
Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
Alodyning is a chromic acid conversion process that leaves a corrosion resistant
film on aluminum surfaces. I am not familiar enough with the process to know
what effect it has on fatigue life, but if Vans is putting it on my spars, i'm
confident it won't hurt me.
Anodizing is a hard coating applied to aluminum surfaces to protect the finish
from wear, corrosion, etc. It could significantly affect the fatigue life of
the part, as it makes a much harder surface on the shell of the unit. If flexed
(like a wing spar), that hard surface could crack due to it's hardness, leading
to any number of corrosion or fatigue problems.
For baffles in the engine compartment though, I suspect you would easily be able
to detect problems before they became serious. Just make inspecting for cracks
part of your regular 100-hour or Annual inspection. As they say, "it's not
structural".
-Rob Prior
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On 9/28/05 10:20 AM, "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
> On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
>> Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO,
>> the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My
>> wing spars are also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that
>> Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty and I guarantee you that
>> those spars will outlive us all.
>
> Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
>
Well, not according to Van's. This is from the website at URL
http://vansaircraft.com/public/kit-std.htm
"Complete, gold anodized main spars are standard on the RV-3, RV-7/7A,
RV-8/8A and RV-9A. A gold anodized fuselage center section bulkhead,
precision matched to the main spars, is standard on those kits as well. RV-4
and RV-6/6A spars are a pre-drilled kit and require assembly, but complete
anodized spars are available as an option."
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Rob,
I think you're mistaken about the spars not being anodized. Here's a
quote from Van's website:
Complete, gold anodized main spars are standard on the RV-3, RV-7/7A,
RV-8/8A and RV-9A. A gold anodized fuselage center section bulkhead,
precision matched to the main spars, is standard on those kits as well.
RV-4 and RV-6/6A spars are a pre-drilled kit and require assembly, but
complete anodized spars are available as an option.
You can see it for yourself at:
https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/kit-std.htm
under wing kits.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Prior (rv7)
Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO,
> the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My
> wing spars are also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that
> Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty and I guarantee you that
> those spars will outlive us all.
Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
Alodyning is a chromic acid conversion process that leaves a corrosion
resistant film on aluminum surfaces. I am not familiar enough with the
process to know what effect it has on fatigue life, but if Vans is
putting
it on my spars, i'm confident it won't hurt me.
Anodizing is a hard coating applied to aluminum surfaces to protect the
finish from wear, corrosion, etc. It could significantly affect the
fatigue life of the part, as it makes a much harder surface on the shell
of
the unit. If flexed (like a wing spar), that hard surface could crack
due
to it's hardness, leading to any number of corrosion or fatigue
problems.
For baffles in the engine compartment though, I suspect you would easily
be
able to detect problems before they became serious. Just make
inspecting
for cracks part of your regular 100-hour or Annual inspection. As they
say, "it's not structural".
-Rob Prior
Message 15
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| Subject: | Builders tools for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: MStudio828@aol.com
Having completed building my RV, these tools necessary for building any RV
are for sale at a great savings. The tools were bought new from Cleveland tools,
Avery Tools and Spruce Aircraft for over $1100.00. Will sell for $750. plus
shipping. You can e-mail me at MStudio828@aol.com or call 602-252-0208 or
602-276-1630.
ROLO-FLAIR TUBE FLAIRING TOOL
CLEAVLAND DEEP THROAT HAND RIV\ETING & DIMPLING TOOL
DIMPLE DIE 1/8" RIVET
DIMPLE DIE #8 SCREW
DIMPLE DIE #6 SCREW
CUPPED SQUEEZER 1/8" AN-470
CUPPED SQUEEZER 3/16" AN-470
FLUSH SQUEEZER 1/2" DIA
FLUTING PLIERS
HAND SEAMER 3 1/2" JAW
BUCKING BAR
BUCKING BAR
BUCKING BAR
COMPACT AIR DRILL
RIGHT ANGLE DRILL ATTACHMENT
MINIATURE CHUCK FOR RIGHT ANGLE DRILL ( ABOVE)
DRILL BITS FOR ABOVE 9 EA
DRILL BITS (NEW) #30 6ea
DRILL BITS (NEW) #40 6ea
DRILL STOP SET
MICRO-STOP COUNTERSINK CAGE
STOP COUNTERSINK CUTTER 6EA #10-30
DEBURRING TOOL
DEBURRING BIT
CLECOS #40 350 ea
CLECOS #30 170 ea
CLECOS #20 18 ea
CLECOS #10 24ea
CLECO PLIERS
SIDE GRIP CLECO CLAMPS 1/2" & 1" REACH 14ea
6" DIAL CALIPERS
PRECISION DRILL GAUGES
AN BOLT GAUGE
SAFETY WIRE TWISTERS
INSTRUMENT GAUGE HOLE TEMPLATE
Larry Mcconnell
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Annual & Maintanence Tools for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: MStudio828@aol.com
These tools necessary for maintanence and annuals are for sale. Items were
bought new for over $280. and used once. Will sell for $200. Plus shipping.You
can e-mail me at MStudio828@aol.com or call 602-252-0208 or 602-276-1630.
DIFFERENTIAL COMPRESSION PRESSURE TESTER #E2A
INDUCTION DUAL MAGNETO SYNCHRONIZER
OIL FILTER CUTTER
SPARK PLUG CLEANER
SPARK PLUG GAPPING TOOL
AVIATION SPARK PLUG SOCKET
AVIATION SPARK PLUG GAP GAUGE
BRAKE LINING RIVET TOOL
Larry Mcconnell
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
This is not correct. They are anodized.
Jeff
>
>Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | engine import fees? |
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
Greetings
I am about ready to order an engine for my RV-7A project, but still havent decided
between Aerosport Power, Mattituck or Superior. Seems like any of these will
pretty much build whatever you want, no?
Anyway, I checked the archives, but am still not clear on whether there is any
signficant disadvantage associated with Aerosport being located in Canada. I
am in California, if that makes any difference. I know the tax man will cometh
eventually, but will I have signficant import charges or anything else to worry
about that I wont have with Superior or Mattituck?
thanks. Feel free to chime in with additional opinions/experiences on these companies
as you wish
regards
Erich Weaver
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
OK, I found it. It is an article titled "Tired Wings? Anodized Spars
and Fatigue Strength," on page 25 of 18 Years of the RVator. The
fatigue life of the anodized Phlogiston spar was calculated at 12,000
hours, which was half the life of a primered spar.
Jeff Point
Jeff Point wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>I'll do some looking, but IIRC the fatigue life of the annodized spar
>was more like 8-9,000 hours. Still a lot, but not unattainable.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Don't know how things are in WV but many states have caps on how much auto fuels
can be raised in a certain amount of time. Might also apply to Avgas. This
might fall under other laws that deal with gouging but in many cases those only
apply when a disaster has been declared. Best thing to do is report it to
your DA. Of course just telling the manager BS and the threat of reporting it
may knock him back into reality. Worse case the laws won't apply to avgas and
he can do whatever he wants. Then you just exercise your consumer rights and
go elsewhere. You can probably go a ways from your home port to get gas and
a burger for that extra $1.16 a gallon.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Ailerons
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport KLWB (Lewisburg
WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager bumped the fuel
price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and leave
the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 21
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Would love to fly to LOE but not if it's gonna cost twice as much by RV as by
SWA! 8-(
Can anyone recommend some good stops between, say, Little Rock & Lubbock
where they have held prices down? Autogas would be most acceptable- have checked
Airnav but know there's more out there somewhere...
Thanks in advance!
Mark Phillips, N51PW, Columbia, TN
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Sorry Rob, but the spars are anodized, not alodined.
Mike Robertson
Do Not ARchive
>From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles
>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:20:32 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
>On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> > Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2. IMO,
> > the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly exaggerated. My
> > wing spars are also anodized as are all the Phlogiston spars that
> > Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty and I guarantee you that
> > those spars will outlive us all.
>
>Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
>
>Alodyning is a chromic acid conversion process that leaves a corrosion
>resistant film on aluminum surfaces. I am not familiar enough with the
>process to know what effect it has on fatigue life, but if Vans is putting
>it on my spars, i'm confident it won't hurt me.
>
>Anodizing is a hard coating applied to aluminum surfaces to protect the
>finish from wear, corrosion, etc. It could significantly affect the
>fatigue life of the part, as it makes a much harder surface on the shell of
>the unit. If flexed (like a wing spar), that hard surface could crack due
>to it's hardness, leading to any number of corrosion or fatigue problems.
>
>For baffles in the engine compartment though, I suspect you would easily be
>able to detect problems before they became serious. Just make inspecting
>for cracks part of your regular 100-hour or Annual inspection. As they
>say, "it's not structural".
>
>-Rob Prior
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Sounds like a really poor rationalization for price gouging.
Greg Young
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and
leave the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | engine import fees? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Don't have to worry about import fees for an engine from Aero Sport, just
shipping fees. And Bart has a very good deal going with his local shipping
company. We only paid $110.00 to get oour engine to Portland, OR.
Mike Robertson
Do Not Archive
>From: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: engine import fees?
>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:16:45 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
>
>Greetings
>
>I am about ready to order an engine for my RV-7A project, but still havent
>decided between Aerosport Power, Mattituck or Superior. Seems like any of
>these will pretty much build whatever you want, no?
>
>Anyway, I checked the archives, but am still not clear on whether there is
>any signficant disadvantage associated with Aerosport being located in
>Canada. I am in California, if that makes any difference. I know the tax
>man will cometh eventually, but will I have signficant import charges or
>anything else to worry about that I wont have with Superior or Mattituck?
>
>thanks. Feel free to chime in with additional opinions/experiences on
>these companies as you wish
>
>regards
>
>Erich Weaver
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pricing |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I'd be surprised if raising it that much at once would be legal. Considering what
he said and when he said it, it comes across to me as a thinly veiled price
gouge cover up.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob
>
> Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
> KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
> bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
> $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and
> leave the airport without any!
>
> Bob
> RV6 NightFighter
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'd be surprised ifraising it that much at once would belegal. Considering what
he said and when he said it, it comes across to me as a thinly veiled price gouge
cover up.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Bob <PANAMARED3@BRIER.NET>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and
leave the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
nd much much more:
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV8QB flap attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Craig <craigtxtx@yahoo.com>
Paul,
I had a similar problem. I also had to use the wider hinge to match up the aileron
and flap trailing edges. The longer hinge helped the top of flap to wing
spar/wing skin interference some, but not completely. I called Vans and was
told there is not much that can be done and that is the way it is supposed to
be. In an informal survey of 8's and 7's (they use the same wing and similar
flaps) in my area, I saw that most had little to no gap between the flap and top
wing skin. Note that Van's recommends UHMW tape in that location to deal with
the wing to flap rubbing. I ended up manually massaging the curve of the
flap front and the wing trailing edge wing top wing skin to minimize the rubbing.
Its still not perfect, but it is less noticeable.
Craig
RV8AQB Fuselage front baggage compartment
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: LOE fuel stops |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Check the fuel section of www.airnav.com
Your best option may be SWA.
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pricing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "wskimike" <wskimike@mchsi.com>
It sounds like I need to look at automotive fuel STC in my decision on which
engine to order.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>
> Sounds like a really poor rationalization for price gouging.
>
> Greg Young
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>
> Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
> KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
> bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
> $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel
> and
> leave the airport without any!
>
> Bob
> RV6 NightFighter
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> >Tom, anodizing removes about half the fatigue life on
> aluminum. Hard to
> >tell what an individual's experience will be on the baffles,
> lots of other
> >variables.
> >
> You wouldn't have good, hard, factual data that you can point
> me to, do you?
> Linn
> do not archive
Lynn,
I sense more than a little skepticism in your question. Within the field of
study of mechanical engineering there is a lot of material devoted to
fatigue failures of various metals, including aluminum, of course. There
are people who study this field for their whole lives, in fact. I'd
recommend Shigley's Machine Design textbook for the fundamentals, and Metal
Fatigue in Engineering by Stephens for a more comprehensive look.
One aspect of mechanical engineering deals with how to design things that
won't break unintentionally. All of the empirical data in this area is
obtained through testing. For example, tables are generated for such and
such a condition as to how many cycles can typically be obtained prior to
fatigue failure. It is impossible to state with any certainty when a given
piece of metal will fail, only what the probability of failure is at so many
cycles.
Aluminum is somewhat unique in that there is no cyclic stress below which
the metal can endure an infinite number of cycles (steel has an infinite
endurance limit below some cyclic stress level). What this means literally
is that given enough stress cycles, even very low ones, aluminum will crack.
A hard surface added to aluminum, such as anodizing, will absolutely reduce
the fatigue life. Aluminum oxide, which is what anodizing is, is extremely
hard and brittle. It will form micro cracks quite early on, and these
cracks in turn cause stress risers in the underlying metal. It is these
stress risers which lead to a reduced fatigue life. Van stated that this
reduction is about 50% on the anodized spars. I have seen various other
papers which would indicate that 50% is a reasonable number.
I stand by the original statement - anodizing will reduce the fatigue life
by about half. Whether or not it matters in the case of the baffles is
unknown.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 667 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 30
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| Subject: | Follow-up - BPE Engine Rebuild Seminar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
This past Saturday, in front of 27 fellow aviators and with the assistance
of Allen and Mike from Barrett Precision Engines
(http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com), I rebuilt my Lycoming O-320-D2J.
I purchased this engine almost two years ago and decided that it needed an
overhaul before flying. I tossed out the idea of an engine rebuild seminar
for our local EAA chapter members to Allen Barrett at BPE and he bit. I
wanted to be involved in the tear down and rebuild of the engine but didn't
feel comfortable doing it myself. Allen saw an opportunity to share his
wealth of knowledge and get some exposure out of the deal. It was a perfect
match.
On Friday, May 13th, my wife and I drove down to Tulsa, OK (from Kansas
City) and we took the engine apart with the assistance of their lead shop
tech Mike. It went very smoothly and only took a couple of hours. The
other shop people got a kick out of some farm boy from Kansas tearing an
engine apart. (Pictures at: http://n523rv.com/engine). We were generally
pleased with the condition of the engine, however, things took a bad turn
for the worse when the crank was rejected for pitting, the pistons had
cracks and the mags were shot. We moved forward with the overhaul and set a
date of September 24th for the seminar. I promoted the seminar in various
places, primarily among our local EAA chapters.
Saturday, September 24th arrived and it was a perfect day. Allen and Mike
arrived the night before with all the pieces of the engine and had it all
setup in EAA Chapter 91's hangar ready to go. We started the day at 8:00
with some coffee and donuts while Allen talked about the process we were
about to through. We also talked about how to purchase engine cores and
what to watch for. (The city decided that it would be a good day to repave
the only road leading to the airport, so we gave attendee's a little extra
time to arrive.)
About 9:00am we moved to the hangar area to start the build. All of the
parts had been previously checked and dimensioned, so it was merely a task
of assembling the parts. Since this was my engine, I worked with Mike to do
the assembly while Allen narrated and fielded questions. We broke for lunch
around 12:00 at which point we had the case halves on and the accessory had
just been bolted on. My wife served us a wonder lunch of lasagna, salad and
garlic bread. After lunch we went back out and finished assembling the
engine with completion coming around 5:15 or so. We stopped several times
throughout the day to let people come up and get a closer look at what we
had done. (Can't have 27 people standing around you at once.)
It's actually quite amazing that we ran into no major issues. Allen and
Mike brought every part and every tool we needed to assemble the engine.
Early in the day, they realized that we were missing a castle nut for the
oil pump housing. The plan was to continue with the build and they would
remove the accessory case from the engine when they got the engine back to
Tulsa and replace the nut. Just as we were finishing up installing the
accessory case, Mike pulled out the fittings for the oil cooler lines to
install and found the castle nut nicely sitting inside one of them!
Obviously be careful where nuts and bolts can fall. During lunch, Mike and
Allen pulled the accessory case off and installed the nut and safetied the
oil pump housing. The other small issue that came up at the very wend was
not having a push-rod the correct length to bring one of the rockers into
tolerance. I was no big deal as they installed one as soon as they got back
to Tulsa.
FINAL ANALYSIS:
The engine seminar was a great idea and it came together very well. All of
the participants were extremely appreciative of the opportunity. Mike,
Allen and the crew at BPE were fantastic to work with. I'm certainly glad
that I did not attempt the overhaul on my own, the engines are pretty basic
but there are a lot of things you need to know. I'll never again purchase a
used engine!
If you need an engine or an engine overhaul, give Allen a call... you won't
be sorry. (918-835-1089)
Thanks go out to my wife for making lunch and the members of EAA Chapter 91
for allowing us to use their beautiful hangar!
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Wiring)
#90569
<http://www.n523rv.com/> http://www.n523rv.com
EAA Chapter 1329 President
EAA Chapter 868 Web Editor
Message 31
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| Subject: | First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Daniel Snow" <daniel.snow@earthlink.net>
I called EAA insurance and asked about the requirement to have 3 inspections
by a Tech Counselor. The representative confirmed that it is required in
order to be covered on the first flight. I got the impression that it was a
requirement of the underwriters. However, I talked with an independent
broker specializing in homebuilts and this was the first he had heard of
that requirement. Is this a requirement imposed by EAA or only certain
underwriters? Have a lot of builders been able to get affordable
first-flight insurance without Tech Counselor involvement? I'm not opposed
to using a Tech Counselor if needed, but it could be unnecessary if the
builder is sufficiently competent.
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Alex, thanks for your info. I agree that anodizing reduces the fatigue
life ..... I didn't think it was near 50% though. I've done some
anodizing myself (love that red!!!) on some parts that see a lot of
vibration. Being an Electrical Engineer Vs. a mechanical one, I never
got deep into fatigue failures. However, I rarely thought that the
reduced fatigue life would impact the WAG on the natural life of the
machine. The 25,000 hours figure quoted a while back would place the
un-anodized spar life at 50,000 hours ..... which, in my mind would not
be attainable anyway. 25,000 hours in a homebuilt is probably 6 times
what a really well-used homebuilt would ever achieve.
Linn ..... still learning
Alex Peterson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>
>
>
>>>Tom, anodizing removes about half the fatigue life on
>>>
>>>
>>aluminum. Hard to
>>
>>
>>>tell what an individual's experience will be on the baffles,
>>>
>>>
>>lots of other
>>
>>
>>>variables.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>You wouldn't have good, hard, factual data that you can point
>>me to, do you?
>>Linn
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>
>Lynn,
>
>I sense more than a little skepticism in your question. Within the field of
>study of mechanical engineering there is a lot of material devoted to
>fatigue failures of various metals, including aluminum, of course. There
>are people who study this field for their whole lives, in fact. I'd
>recommend Shigley's Machine Design textbook for the fundamentals, and Metal
>Fatigue in Engineering by Stephens for a more comprehensive look.
>
>One aspect of mechanical engineering deals with how to design things that
>won't break unintentionally. All of the empirical data in this area is
>obtained through testing. For example, tables are generated for such and
>such a condition as to how many cycles can typically be obtained prior to
>fatigue failure. It is impossible to state with any certainty when a given
>piece of metal will fail, only what the probability of failure is at so many
>cycles.
>
>Aluminum is somewhat unique in that there is no cyclic stress below which
>the metal can endure an infinite number of cycles (steel has an infinite
>endurance limit below some cyclic stress level). What this means literally
>is that given enough stress cycles, even very low ones, aluminum will crack.
>A hard surface added to aluminum, such as anodizing, will absolutely reduce
>the fatigue life. Aluminum oxide, which is what anodizing is, is extremely
>hard and brittle. It will form micro cracks quite early on, and these
>cracks in turn cause stress risers in the underlying metal. It is these
>stress risers which lead to a reduced fatigue life. Van stated that this
>reduction is about 50% on the anodized spars. I have seen various other
>papers which would indicate that 50% is a reasonable number.
>
>I stand by the original statement - anodizing will reduce the fatigue life
>by about half. Whether or not it matters in the case of the baffles is
>unknown.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A N66AP 667 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
Van's has done the research many years ago. I agree with Van's and Alex 100%...
Darrell
(do not archive)
Alex Peterson <alexpeterson@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
> >Tom, anodizing removes about half the fatigue life on
> aluminum. Hard to
> >tell what an individual's experience will be on the baffles,
> lots of other
> >variables.
> >
> You wouldn't have good, hard, factual data that you can point
> me to, do you?
> Linn
> do not archive
Lynn,
I sense more than a little skepticism in your question. Within the field of
study of mechanical engineering there is a lot of material devoted to
fatigue failures of various metals, including aluminum, of course. There
are people who study this field for their whole lives, in fact. I'd
recommend Shigley's Machine Design textbook for the fundamentals, and Metal
Fatigue in Engineering by Stephens for a more comprehensive look.
One aspect of mechanical engineering deals with how to design things that
won't break unintentionally. All of the empirical data in this area is
obtained through testing. For example, tables are generated for such and
such a condition as to how many cycles can typically be obtained prior to
fatigue failure. It is impossible to state with any certainty when a given
piece of metal will fail, only what the probability of failure is at so many
cycles.
Aluminum is somewhat unique in that there is no cyclic stress below which
the metal can endure an infinite number of cycles (steel has an infinite
endurance limit below some cyclic stress level). What this means literally
is that given enough stress cycles, even very low ones, aluminum will crack.
A hard surface added to aluminum, such as anodizing, will absolutely reduce
the fatigue life. Aluminum oxide, which is what anodizing is, is extremely
hard and brittle. It will form micro cracks quite early on, and these
cracks in turn cause stress risers in the underlying metal. It is these
stress risers which lead to a reduced fatigue life. Van stated that this
reduction is about 50% on the anodized spars. I have seen various other
papers which would indicate that 50% is a reasonable number.
I stand by the original statement - anodizing will reduce the fatigue life
by about half. Whether or not it matters in the case of the baffles is
unknown.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 667 hours
Maple Grove, MN
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
Well, colour me red.
I thought all the sheet metal parts coming in the quick-build kits were
alodyned, and armed with my knowledge of anodizing I assumed that nobody
would anodize a critical structural component. But if Van's says it's
okay, then I guess it's okay...
But still... I wonder if you can order a set of spars non-anodized?
-Rob (learning something new every day on the RV-List...)
On 10:10:26 2005-09-28 Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> On 9/28/05 10:20 AM, "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca> wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
> >
> > On 21:55:01 2005-09-27 Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
> >> Yes. Mine are gold anodized per MIL-A-8625 Type II, Class 2.
> >> IMO, the cracking concern touted for anodizing is highly
> >> exaggerated. My wing spars are also anodized as are all the
> >> Phlogiston spars that Van's ships. They are a thing of beauty
> >> and I guarantee you that those spars will outlive us all.
> >
> > Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
> >
>
>
> Well, not according to Van's. This is from the website at URL
> http://vansaircraft.com/public/kit-std.htm
>
> "Complete, gold anodized main spars are standard on the RV-3, RV-7/7A,
> RV-8/8A and RV-9A. A gold anodized fuselage center section bulkhead,
> precision matched to the main spars, is standard on those kits as
> well. RV-4 and RV-6/6A spars are a pre-drilled kit and require
> assembly, but complete anodized spars are available as an option."
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
>
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and
leave the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you had
5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the
distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the next
truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted to
stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above replacement
cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce the
price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price you
thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be
willing to give up the return on your investment.
Or look at it this way. Your RV's tanks are full, which I think is 46
gallons in my RV-8A. You filled them for $3.55 a gallon. You don't expect to
use the fuel for the next month or so. How much would you charge me for 20
gallons out of your tanks, knowing that it was going to cost you $4.91 a
gallon to replace it?
Free markets work. If $4.91 a gallon is too much, he won't sell it, and
prices will trend downward. Just because we don't want to pay that much for
gas doesn't mean that someone else won't, and it doesn't mean that there is
a conspiracy to "gouge" the consumer, whatever that means. Today's Wall
Street Journal reports that the Return on Investment for the refining
industry is 5.5%, vs. 12.7% for the Dow Jones industrials. By way of
regulations and environmental concerns, we haven't allowed a new refinery to
be built in the U.S. since BEFORE Jimmy Carter was president. So, a greatly
INCREASED demand in the last 30 years and a REDUCED number of refineries:
maybe that's why the price of a specialty product like avgas is going
through the roof.
I don't mean to sound confrontational with this, but if we don't understand
how markets work, then every price increase looks like a conspiracy and
every price reduction just seems to prove it.
Terry
Do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Annual & Maintanence Tools for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mauri Morin" <maurv8@bresnan.net>
Larry,
If still available, mark sold. My zip code is 59860, tell me what the
shipping cost is and I'll send you a check.
Mauri Morin
----- Original Message -----
From: <MStudio828@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Annual & Maintanence Tools for Sale
> --> RV-List message posted by: MStudio828@aol.com
>
> These tools necessary for maintanence and annuals are for sale. Items were
> bought new for over $280. and used once. Will sell for $200. Plus
> shipping.You
> can e-mail me at MStudio828@aol.com or call 602-252-0208 or 602-276-1630.
>
> DIFFERENTIAL COMPRESSION PRESSURE TESTER #E2A
> INDUCTION DUAL MAGNETO SYNCHRONIZER
> OIL FILTER CUTTER
> SPARK PLUG CLEANER
> SPARK PLUG GAPPING TOOL
> AVIATION SPARK PLUG SOCKET
> AVIATION SPARK PLUG GAP GAUGE
> BRAKE LINING RIVET TOOL
>
> Larry Mcconnell
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Daniel,
You should look at it as an opportunity, not a requirement. The
inspections are free and no matter how competent you are, it never hurts
to have someone else look at your work.
I had a Tech Counselor look at my -6 when I was building, even though
I'm a Tech Counselor myself, and yes, he had some good suggestions that
I would have missed out on otherwise.
It's a great program and deserves the support of all builders.
Dave
Daniel Snow wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Daniel Snow" <daniel.snow@earthlink.net>
>
>I called EAA insurance and asked about the requirement to have 3 inspections
>by a Tech Counselor. The representative confirmed that it is required in
>order to be covered on the first flight. I got the impression that it was a
>requirement of the underwriters. However, I talked with an independent
>broker specializing in homebuilts and this was the first he had heard of
>that requirement. Is this a requirement imposed by EAA or only certain
>underwriters? Have a lot of builders been able to get affordable
>first-flight insurance without Tech Counselor involvement? I'm not opposed
>to using a Tech Counselor if needed, but it could be unnecessary if the
>builder is sufficiently competent.
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: engine import fees? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler <dcw@mnwing.org>
>
> Greetings
>
> I am about ready to order an engine for my RV-7A project, but still havent
> decided between Aerosport Power, Mattituck or Superior. Seems like any of
> these will pretty much build whatever you want, no?
>
> Anyway, I checked the archives, but am still not clear on whether there is any
> signficant disadvantage associated with Aerosport being located in Canada. I
> am in California, if that makes any difference. I know the tax man will cometh
> eventually, but will I have signficant import charges or anything else to
> worry about that I wont have with Superior or Mattituck?
>
> thanks. Feel free to chime in with additional opinions/experiences on these
> companies as you wish
>
> regards
>
> Erich Weaver
>
There are many great engine shops in the US, but I cannot recommend
Aerosport high enough just in terms of customer service. My Aerosport
engine was purchased in 1999 and finally put into service in spring of 2003
in my RV-4. Many of you know that Bart's engines are works of art and mine
runs like a sewing machine. However, if something does go wrong, he truly
stands behind his work. Case in point: after 230 hours my #1 cylinder
began to foul the bottom plug in just a manner of minutes. Oil was actually
pooling in the cylinder after shutdown. Although we have a local engine
shop that has a very good reputation, I called Bart to get his opinion. He
just said, pull it off, send it to him and he'd have it turned around in a
day. I was a little dubious, but I sent it to Kamloops via Fed Ex. It
arrived on a Friday afternoon. He had it finished and out the door on
Tuesday and I had it back on Thurs. It looked brand new.. Rehoned, new
piston, new rings, repainted... he even threw in 2 new pushrods and 2 gasket
and seal kits. He and Sue run one of the most customer-orientated
companies I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I guess I need to
build another RV so I can buy another engine from them!
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Pres, MN Wing
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Terry,
The way most places have been doing it is to charge a reasonable markup
on what they have in stock and change the price upward when they get a
new load which costs them more. What you're saying to do is to raise the
price before you get a new load which makes for a higher profit margin
on the existing stock. What consumers complain about is that the prices
go up quickly on speculation and come down much more slowly than costs.
Oil companies have been making record profits in recent quarters and
everybody else has had to tighten their belts. It seems fair to pay more
if the cost of doing business rises, but it doesn't seem fair to jack
the price a bunch on stock bought at lower prices. When the hurricane is
coming and people start selling bottled water for $5/gallon that's
called gouging. When people make windfall profits by jacking prices on
avgas what do you call it? Are you suggesting that if the FBO sells out
his current stock and has to buy more, he will be driven out of
business? I say that if he keeps the price down as long as he can, his
local customers may well show a little loyalty later when he's a few
cents higher than neighboring airports. The ill will he is engendering
now is likely to lose him customers. People are slow to forget being
taken advantage of. If he truly is concerned about tankering, he should
put a gallon limit on sales and/or order more fuel from his supplier.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport
KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager
bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at
$3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel
and
leave the airport without any!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you
had
5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the
distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the
next
truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted
to
stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above
replacement
cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce
the
price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price
you
thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be
willing to give up the return on your investment.
Or look at it this way. Your RV's tanks are full, which I think is 46
gallons in my RV-8A. You filled them for $3.55 a gallon. You don't
expect to
use the fuel for the next month or so. How much would you charge me for
20
gallons out of your tanks, knowing that it was going to cost you $4.91 a
gallon to replace it?
Free markets work. If $4.91 a gallon is too much, he won't sell it, and
prices will trend downward. Just because we don't want to pay that much
for
gas doesn't mean that someone else won't, and it doesn't mean that there
is
a conspiracy to "gouge" the consumer, whatever that means. Today's Wall
Street Journal reports that the Return on Investment for the refining
industry is 5.5%, vs. 12.7% for the Dow Jones industrials. By way of
regulations and environmental concerns, we haven't allowed a new
refinery to
be built in the U.S. since BEFORE Jimmy Carter was president. So, a
greatly
INCREASED demand in the last 30 years and a REDUCED number of
refineries:
maybe that's why the price of a specialty product like avgas is going
through the roof.
I don't mean to sound confrontational with this, but if we don't
understand
how markets work, then every price increase looks like a conspiracy and
every price reduction just seems to prove it.
Terry
Do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pricing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/28/2005 3:26:23 PM Central Standard Time,
wskimike@mchsi.com writes:
It sounds like I need to look at automotive fuel STC in my decision on which
engine to order.
>>>>
Main reason I went with an E3D- 150 hp Lycs normally don't mind mogas one bit
& I burn a lot of it- STC not req'd. Problem is finding it "on the road"...
Mark do not archive
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Go to KBCB for $3.55 gasoline or others around that price.
That will help ensure that he does not run out of gas :)
Ron Lee
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 9/28/2005 9:23:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv7@b4.ca
writes:
Van's (and Phlogiston's) spars are ALODYNED, not ANODIZED.
==============================
You, sir are misinformed.
Do not archive.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Just out of curiosity, why would you NOT want liability insurance for only
$119? I assume that would be liability for things like running over or
chopping folks up, passenger injuries, hitting another airplane on the
ground, etc. ?? Is it a coverage or limits issue, must be missing
something?
Thanks Bill S
7a Ark fuse / panel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
czechsix@juno.com
Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO
--> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
From: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
kills someone.
John Ciolino
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> All,
> Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
> per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
> concerned it is just a pile of junk.
>
> Bob Perkinson
> Hendersonville, TN.
I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
From: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
-- RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
kills someone.
John Ciolino
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
-- RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
All,
Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
concerned it is just a pile of junk.
Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
A pile of parts in the garage is probably no likely to run over anything. :)
do not archive
Jerry
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Just out of curiosity, why would you NOT want liability insurance for only
>$119? I assume that would be liability for things like running over or
>chopping folks up, passenger injuries, hitting another airplane on the
>ground, etc. ?? Is it a coverage or limits issue, must be missing
>something?
>
>
>Thanks Bill S
>7a Ark fuse / panel
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>czechsix@juno.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
>
>I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
>pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
>to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
>but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
>cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
>I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
>From: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
>I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
>$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
>kills someone.
>John Ciolino
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>
>>All,
>>Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
>>per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
>>concerned it is just a pile of junk.
>>
>>Bob Perkinson
>>Hendersonville, TN.
>>
>>
>
>
>I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to
>pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused
>to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique
>but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was
>cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance.
>I think that was for $70K coverage on my project.
>
>
>--Mark Navratil
>
>
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>
>
>RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly...
>
>
>From: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
>
>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
>
>-- RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net
>
>
>I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge
>
>
>$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and
>
>
>kills someone.
>
>
>John Ciolino
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>
>From: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
>
>
>Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance
>
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net
>
>
> All,
>
>
> Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me
>
>
> per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are
>
>
> concerned it is just a pile of junk.
>
>
> Bob Perkinson
>
>
> Hendersonville, TN.
>
>
>
>
Message 45
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
The painful news is that we are trying to buy $3.55 / gallon gas. My
guess is the RV-Twin I no longer on the drawing board!
Robin Marks
RV-4 200 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Go to KBCB for $3.55 gasoline or others around that price.
That will help ensure that he does not run out of gas :)
Ron Lee
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
BUT........in the not too long ago post I read here on this list where
someone broke into the garage to steal the tools AND walked on some
completed RV parts. Homeowners Ins. covered the damage to the door, theft of
the tools but nada on the RV airplane parts. Someone out there should be
able to fill in the gaps in my memory. KABONG "C.R.S." 8*) Do Not
Archive.
Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
> A pile of parts in the garage is probably no likely to run over anything.
> :)
> do not archive
> Jerry
>
>
> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer"
>><billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, why would you NOT want liability insurance for only
>>$119?
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