---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/29/05: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:23 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Jeff Point) 2. 02:47 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (RAS) 3. 04:48 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (sportav8r@aol.com) 4. 04:48 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (sportav8r@aol.com) 5. 05:32 AM - Re: First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors (John Huft) 6. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Chuck Jensen) 7. 06:06 AM - Re: Builders tools for sale (Bill and Tami Britton) 8. 07:14 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 (Mark Frederick) 9. 07:39 AM - LOE 2005 Discount Fuel and FREE parking at Las Cruces (KLRU) (Lockamy, Jack L) 10. 07:56 AM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Ed Holyoke) 11. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 (linn walters) 12. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 (Bob J) 13. 08:23 AM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Rob Prior (rv7)) 14. 08:47 AM - Fuel pricing (Ron Lee) 15. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuel pricing (Joseph Larson) 16. 10:20 AM - Re: Fuel pricing (Bill VonDane) 17. 10:34 AM - Fuel prices (Mickey Coggins) 18. 10:35 AM - Re: fuel prices (Terry Watson) 19. 11:30 AM - Re: Fuel prices (Scott Bilinski) 20. 12:21 PM - Re: Fuel prices (Mickey Coggins) 21. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: fuel prices (James Ochs) 22. 12:57 PM - Web site change?? (PGLong@aol.com) 23. 01:27 PM - Re: Web site change?? (Chuck Jensen) 24. 01:42 PM - Re: Fuel pricing (Bob) 25. 01:53 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Chris W) 26. 01:58 PM - Re: Fuel prices (Ron Lee) 27. 02:02 PM - Re: Web site change?? (Chris W) 28. 02:18 PM - Re: Web site change?? (RV6 Flyer) 29. 02:19 PM - Re: Fuel pricing (Ron Lee) 30. 03:40 PM - Re:Fuel Pricing (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 31. 03:54 PM - Re:Fuel Pricing (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 32. 03:57 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 33. 04:08 PM - Re: Fuel Pricing (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 34. 04:48 PM - Re: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO (Bill Schlatterer) 35. 08:29 PM - Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? (Dan DeNeal) 36. 09:03 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles (Vanremog@aol.com) 37. 09:03 PM - Re: Fuel prices (Vanremog@aol.com) 38. 09:05 PM - Re: Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? (Vanremog@aol.com) 39. 09:19 PM - Re: Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? (Vanremog@aol.com) 40. 09:57 PM - Anodizining engine baffles (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 41. 10:10 PM - Re: Anodizining engine baffles (Vanremog@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:05 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point Yes. The RV-6 wing kit is still available at $4,710. You have to drill a bunch of holes, and set all the spar rivets yourself, but the spars are not anodized. Jeff Point RV-6 w/ spar AZKO epoxy primered do not archive Rob Prior (rv7) wrote: >But still... I wonder if you can order a set of spars non-anodized? > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:22 AM PST US From: "RAS" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" That's called percieved demand and supply. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport > KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager > bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at > $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel > and > leave the airport without any! > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:16 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Stormy and wife just trekked to Nashville, and found (relatively) cheap fuel on AirNav before we left the house... $3.00/gal (incl. all taxes) at Jamestown, TN (2A1). Guy says he figures he has enough for three weeks at that price. At 2 in the afternoon, I was the second purchaser he'd had all day. I guess the moral is Location, location, location. We'll be home Sunday, and plan to stop there on the way to get some more 100LL, if it's still cheaper than I can buy my hi-test mogas that I usually burn. Bob, if you care to get in on a deal where you can get 100LL down my way at cost, after buying a share in an above ground tank, e-mail me privately. Gil Perky in Eagle Rock is planning just such a venture very soon. -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: RAS Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" That's called percieved demand and supply. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport > KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager > bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at > $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel > and > leave the airport without any! > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:17 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Stormy and wife just trekked to Nashville, and found (relatively) cheap fuel on AirNav before we left the house... $3.00/gal (incl. all taxes) at Jamestown, TN (2A1). Guy says he figures he has enough for three weeks at that price. At 2 in the afternoon, I was the second purchaser he'd had all day. I guess the moral is Location, location, location. We'll be home Sunday, and plan to stop there on the way to get some more 100LL, if it's still cheaper than I can buy my hi-test mogas that I usually burn. Bob, if you care to get in on a deal where you can get 100LL down my way at cost, after buying a share in an above ground tank, e-mail me privately. Gil Perky in Eagle Rock is planning just such a venture very soon. -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: RAS Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" That's called percieved demand and supply. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport > KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager > bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at > $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel > and > leave the airport without any! > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:34 AM PST US From: John Huft Subject: Re: RV-List: First-Flight Insurance and Tech Counselors --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft Daniel, I was able to get first flight coverage without the tech inspections. I live 50 miles away from the local EAA chapter, and I wasn't that aware of the program. However, my next door hangar neighbor had built 4 or 5 RVs himself, and helped on others, so I had an excellent source of advise around. He was not an official EAA tech counselor, but I would not consider building a plane without the advise of someone with knowledge and experience to look at my work once in a while (once a month worked well for me!). John Daniel Snow wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Daniel Snow" > >I called EAA insurance and asked about the requirement to have 3 inspections >by a Tech Counselor. The representative confirmed that it is required in >order to be covered on the first flight. I got the impression that it was a >requirement of the underwriters. However, I talked with an independent >broker specializing in homebuilts and this was the first he had heard of >that requirement. Is this a requirement imposed by EAA or only certain >underwriters? Have a lot of builders been able to get affordable >first-flight insurance without Tech Counselor involvement? I'm not opposed >to using a Tech Counselor if needed, but it could be unnecessary if the >builder is sufficiently competent. > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing From: "Chuck Jensen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Ed, You wrote that you didn't think the FBO was playing fair to take fuel he had in inventory and mark it up before it was gone, thus gaining windfall profit. Well, the flip side of that is if the FBO buys a truckload of fuel, and the next day the price drops, is he then entitled to a windfall loss? The same problem exists for your local gas station. In many instances, they have to raise and lower prices in concert with competitors down the street or the nearby FBO. Retail price changes are unlinked in the short term with the cost of supply, but come back into synch in the long term. So, I'm suggesting a little forbearance with the small local FBO. Not many of them are getting filthy rich and independently wealthy running the local operations. Most do it for love of aviation (except for the guy charging $5/gallon). Where the real disconnected between supply and demand is is with the oil companies. The cost of a barrel of oil has gone up 23% this last year, but the wholesale cost of fuel has gone up 73%. Huh? Now you know where the record profits are coming from. If things work like they've been working, a big chunk of the proposed $250B LA bailout will be earmarked for those poor little struggling energy companies. Chuck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:53 AM PST US From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV-List: Builders tools for sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" Larry, will you split up the tools. I'm interested in the right angle drill attachment, chuck, bits, #30 and #40 clecos and the #30 and #40 bits, side grip clecoes and possibly even the rolo-flair tool. Let me know. I would like to see some pics if possible. Bill Britton. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Builders tools for sale > --> RV-List message posted by: MStudio828@aol.com > > Having completed building my RV, these tools necessary for building any RV > are for sale at a great savings. The tools were bought new from Cleveland tools, > Avery Tools and Spruce Aircraft for over $1100.00. Will sell for $750. plus > shipping. You can e-mail me at MStudio828@aol.com or call 602-252-0208 or > 602-276-1630. > > ROLO-FLAIR TUBE FLAIRING TOOL > CLEAVLAND DEEP THROAT HAND RIV\ETING & DIMPLING TOOL > DIMPLE DIE 1/8" RIVET > DIMPLE DIE #8 SCREW > DIMPLE DIE #6 SCREW > CUPPED SQUEEZER 1/8" AN-470 > CUPPED SQUEEZER 3/16" AN-470 > FLUSH SQUEEZER 1/2" DIA > FLUTING PLIERS > HAND SEAMER 3 1/2" JAW > BUCKING BAR > BUCKING BAR > BUCKING BAR > COMPACT AIR DRILL > RIGHT ANGLE DRILL ATTACHMENT > MINIATURE CHUCK FOR RIGHT ANGLE DRILL ( ABOVE) > DRILL BITS FOR ABOVE 9 EA > DRILL BITS (NEW) #30 6ea > DRILL BITS (NEW) #40 6ea > DRILL STOP SET > MICRO-STOP COUNTERSINK CAGE > STOP COUNTERSINK CUTTER 6EA #10-30 > DEBURRING TOOL > DEBURRING BIT > CLECOS #40 350 ea > CLECOS #30 170 ea > CLECOS #20 18 ea > CLECOS #10 24ea > CLECO PLIERS > SIDE GRIP CLECO CLAMPS 1/2" & 1" REACH 14ea > 6" DIAL CALIPERS > PRECISION DRILL GAUGES > AN BOLT GAUGE > SAFETY WIRE TWISTERS > INSTRUMENT GAUGE HOLE TEMPLATE > > Larry Mcconnell > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:57 AM PST US From: Mark Frederick Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Frederick It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you had 5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the next truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted to stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above replacement cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce the price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price you thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be willing to give up the return on your investment. Wrong, and unethical, at least. Personally, I would use the same multiplier I always use to cover overhead and make a reasonable profit. Remember, the margins increase as the wholeale cost of the goods to be sold goes up. It's possible to actually use a smaller multiplier as wholesale costs go up! Business rule #1: If what I sell costs me $X, I have to charge X x 1.4 or so to stay in business, depending on my overhead costs. Now, if my next load of product costs more, my X x 1.4 also goes up! Ain't life grand! This assumes that the product continues to be available, which in this case it is. Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is just my opinion! Carry on! Mark ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:53 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: LOE 2005 Discount Fuel and FREE parking at Las Cruces (KLRU) From: "Lockamy, Jack L" --> RV-List message posted by: "Lockamy, Jack L" Adventure Aviation FBO at Las Cruces (KLRU) will be giving ALL RVers who stop by a 20 cents per gallon discount off the posted fuel price during the weekend of 14-16 OCT. They will also be giving FREE overnight 'paved ramp' parking/tiedowns to all RVs attending the LOE 2005 Fly-In at nearby Santa Theresa Airport. Want more? You can also get a discount on a Hertz Rental car from Adventure Aviation for the weekend. Lots of nice hotels and restaurants near KLRU and Santa Theresa Airport is only a few minutes drive by car or hop in the RV and get there even faster :-). Be sure to say "Thanks" to Doug and Jo at Adventure Aviation FBO. They are two of the nicest people you will ever meet (IMHO). Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA RV-7A Flying N174JL www.jacklockamy.com 'Hope the LOE Fly-In organizers will move the fly-in back to KLRU next year, and the next....' ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:32 AM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Hey Chuck, Bob (the NightFighter) posted that the manager at an airport in West Virginia bumped the price $1.36 overnight to $4.91/gal to keep it from being bought up. That would be enough to keep me from buying it up for sure. Do you really think this guy would drop the price more than a dollar as quickly? You don't see a lot of gas wars at FBOs. Charging big city FBO prices in rural WV may well be "fair". After all, everybody is entitled to make a profit. Perhaps he thinks that it's too far to go elsewhere to "vote with your feet". AirNav is showing 2 airports within 45 miles with prices much lower. I'd go elsewhere to get gas if I could and I might keep doing so even after the prices in the area even out. That's my idea of forbearance. If we reward FBOs for unreasonable price increases, there's no reason for them to compete. We have to make it a point to buy the lowest price gas we can find so there's an incentive to price it competitively. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" >Ed, >You wrote that you didn't think the FBO was playing fair to take fuel he had in inventory and mark it up before it was gone, thus gaining windfall profit. Well, the flip side of that is if the FBO buys a truckload of fuel, and the next day the price drops, is he then entitled to a windfall loss? >The same problem exists for your local gas station. In many instances, they have to raise and lower prices in concert with competitors down the street or the nearby FBO. Retail price changes are unlinked in the short term with the cost of supply, but come back into synch in the long term. >So, I'm suggesting a little forbearance with the small local FBO. Not many of them are getting filthy rich and independently wealthy running the local operations. Most do it for love of aviation (except for the guy charging $5/gallon). >Where the real disconnected between supply and demand is is with the oil companies. The cost of a barrel of oil has gone up 23% this last year, but the wholesale cost of fuel has gone up 73%. Huh? Now you know where the record profits are coming from. If things work like they've been working, a big chunk of the proposed $250B LA bailout will be earmarked for those poor little struggling energy companies. >Chuck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:55 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters I beg to differ. I'm no businessman, but supply and demand drive the cost of goods ..... not goodwill, not because I'm a nice guy ..... plain and simple supply and demand. Just to take your Homey Depot example ..... I'll use the cost of plywood ..... it's gone up tremendously ...... for a number of reasons. The Gov't, in their infinite wisdom bought up huge quantities of plywood and shipped it to Iraq to help them rebuild. Supply dropped, but the demand stayed the same. Prices rose. Everywhere, not just Home Depot. Their pricing was in line with everyone else's to stay competitive ..... but prices went up. Once up there, the price didn't fluctuate much after the supply cought up either. Demand keeps it up there. I think it'd be great if they would sell plywood just over cost, just to be friendly. would have saved a bundle on my new house. China bought up all the steel they could get their hands on ..... and since we don't produce much in this country anymore ..... supply dropped but demand stayed the same .... prices went up. Gouging? We'd have to compare a lot of 100LL retailers to find out their cost basis and then decide if they're getting too much profit ..... but it's just easier and more efficient to get on Airnav, compare prices, and shop for your gas. The FBO that's 'gouging' loses more income than just gas profit when people go elsewhere to do their business. IMHO, of course. Linn do not archive Mark Frederick wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Frederick > >It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you had >5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the >distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the next >truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted to >stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above replacement >cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce the >price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price you >thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be >willing to give up the return on your investment. > > >Wrong, and unethical, at least. Personally, I would use the same multiplier >I always use to cover overhead and make a reasonable profit. Remember, the >margins increase as the wholeale cost of the goods to be sold goes up. It's >possible to actually use a smaller multiplier as wholesale costs go up! > >Business rule #1: If what I sell costs me $X, I have to charge X x 1.4 or so >to stay in business, depending on my overhead costs. Now, if my next load of >product costs more, my X x 1.4 also goes up! Ain't life grand! > >This assumes that the product continues to be available, which in this case >it is. > >Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because >their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight >to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. > >This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is >just my opinion! > >Carry on! >Mark > > > > -- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:54 AM PST US From: Bob J Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 09/28/05 --> RV-List message posted by: Bob J I agree. Three of the cheapest fuel stops in Indiana where I live base their fuel prices on what they paid for the load. No jacking around with the price until the next load is delivered. Well guess what? They sell a bunch of fuel, the pilots get fair fuel prices, and everyone's happy. And I am more than happy to give them my business since they essentially support us in a fair manner. Smart airport operators have more than enough storage capacity to take on a tanker load, so that they have some wiggle room as to when they call the distributor for another delivery, if prices are fluctuating. One FBO I buy fuel from has shown me the distributor price fax he paid and simply tacks on $.50/gallon. There is a HUGE discount for the FBO for being able to take on 8000 gallons (a tanker load.) Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 in the oven do not archive On 9/29/05, Mark Frederick wrote: > > > Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because > their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight > to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. > > This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this > is > just my opinion! > > Carry on! > Mark > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:24 AM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" On 0:17:33 2005-09-29 Jeff Point wrote: > Yes. The RV-6 wing kit is still available at $4,710. You have to > drill a bunch of holes, and set all the spar rivets yourself, but the > spars are not anodized. Hmm... Interesting, but unfortunately not much help for my -7. Unless I want to build a "small wing" version of the -7. :) I guess i'll be going with the anodized spars when I get to that point. -Rob ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:47 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is >just my opinion! As I mentioned, there is an airport 39 miles away that charges $3.55 a gallon. Fly there. I do that to avoid high prices at my field. If most people did that the FBO would again be part of supply and demand as consumers exercise their options to go elsewhere. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:19 AM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson I take a pretty Libertarian view on issues like this. If you don't like his prices, go somewhere else. He's free to charge what he wants, and you're free to buy your fuel from someone else. Now, if he has in any way advertised a price, then he should give due notice before changing the price. You shouldn't call him on Thursday and ask, "What's your price?" then fly there Friday to find out he dramatically increased the price. But other than the surprise factor, he's free to charge whatever he wants. And that's how it should be. In my rarely-humble opinion. -J do not archive On Sep 29, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Ron Lee wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > >> This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of >> course, this is >> just my opinion! >> > > As I mentioned, there is an airport 39 miles away that charges $3.55 a > gallon. > > Fly there. I do that to avoid high prices at my field. If most > people did > that the FBO would again be part of supply and demand as consumers > exercise their options to go elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:49 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Ron, you can get 100LL for $3.50 at ML... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lee" Subject: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is >just my opinion! As I mentioned, there is an airport 39 miles away that charges $3.55 a gallon. Fly there. I do that to avoid high prices at my field. If most people did that the FBO would again be part of supply and demand as consumers exercise their options to go elsewhere. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:48 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins If there is competition, I really don't care what one guy charges. The problem comes in when there is no competition. If the airport will allow another "FBO" on the field, or there are no restrictions to bringing in your own fuel, then I say let the knuckleheads charge whatever they want. They are just begging for a competitor to come onto the field. Flying to another field to gas up is always an option, but can be a pain. > I agree. Three of the cheapest fuel stops in Indiana where I live base their > fuel prices on what they paid for the load. No jacking around with the price > until the next load is delivered. Well guess what? They sell a bunch of > fuel, the pilots get fair fuel prices, and everyone's happy. And I am more > than happy to give them my business since they essentially support us in a > fair manner. Smart airport operators have more than enough storage capacity > to take on a tanker load, so that they have some wiggle room as to when they > call the distributor for another delivery, if prices are fluctuating. One > FBO I buy fuel from has shown me the distributor price fax he paid and > simply tacks on $.50/gallon. There is a HUGE discount for the FBO for being > able to take on 8000 gallons (a tanker load.) > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying F1 in the oven > > do not archive > > On 9/29/05, Mark Frederick wrote: > >> >>Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because >>their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight >>to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. >> >>This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this >>is >>just my opinion! >> >>Carry on! >>Mark > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:09 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RV-List: RE: fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Wrong right back at you, Mark. Your example of plywood prices is a good one. I am in the homebuilding (housing) industry. House prices here in the Seattle area are on their way up because lumber and plywood prices are on their way up because of the ANTICIPATED shortage of supply due to the recent hurricanes. If new home prices are on the way up, existing home prices are increasing too. Why? Because an existing home is the alternative to a new home, and if new homes become higher priced, the demand for existing homes increases, increasing their price. No one is gouging anyone, unless you define gouging as charging more than you want to pay. The alternative to higher prices is lower supply. Remember gas lines and being able to buy gas on alternate days? That was because supplies were reduced and politics wouldn't let prices increase because some people where afraid the economy would come to a halt if gas prices reached a dollar a gallon. Higher prices reduce demand and increase supply. Even without increased production, if I can't afford the gas and you can, the supply available to you has effectively increased. The most basic lesson of Adam Smith is that people acting in their own self-interest, without force or fraud, will benefit society as a whole with their actions. Our responsibility as consumers is to find the best price or to make our decisions on our own values. If your brother-in-law owns an FBO, maybe you will be willing to pay him a nickel a gallon more than someone else, but that's your choice, not his nor mine nor the governments. Call it unethical to raise prices in the face of shortages if you want, but I would call it unethical to call your DA under those same circumstances. Ironically, the local news reporting on the increase in the cost of plywood because of the anticipated shortage of supply went to Home Depot to get the story. Better call your DA. Terry do not archive --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Frederick It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you had 5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the next truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted to stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above replacement cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce the price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price you thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be willing to give up the return on your investment. Wrong, and unethical, at least. Personally, I would use the same multiplier I always use to cover overhead and make a reasonable profit. Remember, the margins increase as the wholesale cost of the goods to be sold goes up. It's possible to actually use a smaller multiplier as wholesale costs go up! Business rule #1: If what I sell costs me $X, I have to charge X x 1.4 or so to stay in business, depending on my overhead costs. Now, if my next load of product costs more, my X x 1.4 also goes up! Ain't life grand! This assumes that the product continues to be available, which in this case it is. Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is just my opinion! Carry on! Mark ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:21 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Then you get the local competition working together and then your really screwed. At 07:33 PM 9/29/2005 +0200, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >If there is competition, I really don't care what one guy >charges. The problem comes in when there is no competition. >If the airport will allow another "FBO" on the field, or >there are no restrictions to bringing in your own fuel, >then I say let the knuckleheads charge whatever they want. >They are just begging for a competitor to come onto the >field. Flying to another field to gas up is always an >option, but can be a pain. > > > I agree. Three of the cheapest fuel stops in Indiana where I live base > their > > fuel prices on what they paid for the load. No jacking around with the > price > > until the next load is delivered. Well guess what? They sell a bunch of > > fuel, the pilots get fair fuel prices, and everyone's happy. And I am more > > than happy to give them my business since they essentially support us in a > > fair manner. Smart airport operators have more than enough storage capacity > > to take on a tanker load, so that they have some wiggle room as to when > they > > call the distributor for another delivery, if prices are fluctuating. One > > FBO I buy fuel from has shown me the distributor price fax he paid and > > simply tacks on $.50/gallon. There is a HUGE discount for the FBO for being > > able to take on 8000 gallons (a tanker load.) > > > > Regards, > > Bob Japundza > > RV-6 flying F1 in the oven > > > > do not archive > > > > On 9/29/05, Mark Frederick wrote: > > > >> > >>Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because > >>their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight > >>to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. > >> > >>This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this > >>is > >>just my opinion! > >> > >>Carry on! > >>Mark > > > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 finishing > > >do not archive > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:10 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > Then you get the local competition working together and then your really > screwed. True, but that is called collusion, and is illegal. Of course, we all know that it happens, and is difficult to prove in many cases. It is interesting that while cartels are illegal in most places, we seem to tolerate the OPEC cartel, and the De Beers diamond cartel. Unless they figure out a way to have diamonds power an airplane, I've got no use for them. Now oil, on the other hand... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:57 PM PST US From: James Ochs Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: James Ochs Hrm. While I think that the vendors need to take account what it is going to cost to replace stock in their pricing models, I think in practice the oil and fuel industry tend to take that to its limit and beyond. A 25% increase in prices as noted at the beginning of this thread, overnight, becuase it *might* cost more to replace (and if I understand the reports correctly the impact to the flow of oil was actually much lower than expected). A clear example of this is here in California. Auto gas prices went up significantly due to Katrina. Since California gets *all* of its oil from places *other* than the gulf coast and the emissions standards are such that you can't even sell fuel refined out of state here then the link there is weak at best. You often see the fuel prices reacting to percieved threats to the supply, you rarely, if ever, see them drop because of increased supply. I would bet, that at this FBO (without a boycott), the prices would drop by a lot less than the 25% that they increased. This is why we are pushing over $3.00 / gallon for auto gas, and over $4.00 gallon for avgas. It wasn't so long ago that gas was less than a dollar per gallon. In your example below from the 70's you will also notice that after the oil embargo was over, prices never went back down to the level they were at before. This is what the oil industry does, use an excuse such as this to raise prices, then never quite get back to where they were when the excuse was valid. To be fair, most of this is the supplier and not the gas station owner himself. So we live in a free market (sort of) and I fully support the vendors ability to price their product at whatever level they want. What I don't support is the BS excuses they give us when they do it. If they said "we are raising prices because we feel like it" then thats one thing. If they are saying "we are only doing it because supply is getting tight" then we should occasionaly hear "prices are dropping because of a higher supply" and see the prices drop just as significantly as they went up. That said, my uncle (a petroleum engineer) brought up a good point... It's still cheaper than some bottled water. James #40400 Do Not Archive Terry Watson wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > >Wrong right back at you, Mark. > >Your example of plywood prices is a good one. I am in the homebuilding >(housing) industry. House prices here in the Seattle area are on their way >up because lumber and plywood prices are on their way up because of the >ANTICIPATED shortage of supply due to the recent hurricanes. If new home >prices are on the way up, existing home prices are increasing too. Why? >Because an existing home is the alternative to a new home, and if new homes >become higher priced, the demand for existing homes increases, increasing >their price. > >No one is gouging anyone, unless you define gouging as charging more than >you want to pay. The alternative to higher prices is lower supply. Remember >gas lines and being able to buy gas on alternate days? That was because >supplies were reduced and politics wouldn't let prices increase because some >people where afraid the economy would come to a halt if gas prices reached a >dollar a gallon. Higher prices reduce demand and increase supply. Even >without increased production, if I can't afford the gas and you can, the >supply available to you has effectively increased. > >The most basic lesson of Adam Smith is that people acting in their own >self-interest, without force or fraud, will benefit society as a whole with >their actions. Our responsibility as consumers is to find the best price or >to make our decisions on our own values. If your brother-in-law owns an FBO, >maybe you will be willing to pay him a nickel a gallon more than someone >else, but that's your choice, not his nor mine nor the governments. Call it >unethical to raise prices in the face of shortages if you want, but I would >call it unethical to call your DA under those same circumstances. > >Ironically, the local news reporting on the increase in the cost of plywood >because of the anticipated shortage of supply went to Home Depot to get the >story. Better call your DA. > >Terry > >do not archive > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Frederick > >It makes sense to me. If you were in the business of selling gas and you had >5000 gallons that you paid the distributor $4.00 a gallon for and the >distributor told you he was going to charge you $5.00 a gallon for the next >truckload, what would you price the fuel in your tank at? If you wanted to >stay in business, you would price it at the highest price above replacement >cost that you were confident you could get for it. You might well reduce the >price to something between the replacement cost and the highest price you >thought you could get for reasons of goodwill, but you would have to be >willing to give up the return on your investment. > > >Wrong, and unethical, at least. Personally, I would use the same multiplier >I always use to cover overhead and make a reasonable profit. Remember, the >margins increase as the wholesale cost of the goods to be sold goes up. It's >possible to actually use a smaller multiplier as wholesale costs go up! > >Business rule #1: If what I sell costs me $X, I have to charge X x 1.4 or so >to stay in business, depending on my overhead costs. Now, if my next load of >product costs more, my X x 1.4 also goes up! Ain't life grand! > >This assumes that the product continues to be available, which in this case >it is. > >Now, if Homey Depot decided to charge $100 per sheet of plywood (because >their NEXT batch will cost 'em more), I think most of us would go straight >to the DA. Thankfully, the Homey folks have ethics, and use them. > >This unethical gouging FBO bum should be run out of town. Of course, this is >just my opinion! > >Carry on! >Mark > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:43 PM PST US From: PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com I've become accustomed to checking on the weather on the following web site for a quick go/no go. Anyone know what happened to this web site? Have not been able to get the decoded weather in the past few days, nor any other goodies found here. _http://www.rvproject.com/wx/_ (http://www.rvproject.com/wx/) Hope it will be up again soon. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:40 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Web site change?? From: "Chuck Jensen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Dan Checkoway occasionally takes the site down for improvements/enhancements. The last time it was down for a couple days, I was going to demand my money back! Then I remembered what I paid for it and kept my mouth shut--and just thanked Dan for a great site when he got it back on line. Chuck Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com I've become accustomed to checking on the weather on the following web site for a quick go/no go. Anyone know what happened to this web site? Have not been able to get the decoded weather in the past few days, nor any other goodies found here. _http://www.rvproject.com/wx/_ (http://www.rvproject.com/wx/) Hope it will be up again soon. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:34 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Bob At 12:09 PM 9/29/05, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Joseph Larson > >I take a pretty Libertarian view on issues like this. If you don't >like his prices, go somewhere else. He's free to charge what he >wants, and you're free to buy your fuel from someone else. I agree I can fly 28 miles and get gas for $1.21 cheaper. I believe in the free market concept if there is a free market. But, at LWB the airport has the sole source fuel contract. No free market competition allowed. I would like to support the local airport and in the past even though fuel was $.25 gal higher, I would buy it at the home field. I would like to think that the airport is not making a huge profit and maybe their latest shipment of fuel is pricey. When I talked to the airport manager he told me that he has priced the fuel competitively. I have no idea what that means? LWB's fuel is the most expensive in the state and within a 100 mile radius. However it is cheaper than a high of $6.00+ a gallon that is reported by AirNav in other parts of the country. After the airport raised the price to $4.91 they have received a new shipment of fuel. It just might be that the current wholesale price is close to $4.00/gal, which might be a wake up call for the rest of the country. LWB claims they mark up their fuel $1.00/gal to meet their overhead costs. This is really not a free or fair market. The consumer does not know the wholesale cost, nor the actual overhead costs and in some cases does not have an option to shop elsewhere. If the County Airport was a for profit business, then maximizing profits is the way to go, but I don't think that a government entity's sole purpose should be to make a profit (nor should they operate in the red). FYI, LWB is a towered Class D airport. I have sat in the control tower for over 4 hours on a sunny Sunday afternoon and have watched a total of 4 airplanes land or take off. None bought fuel. A vision of things to come? Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:49 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> >Phlogiston spars . . . > What? The spars are made from "A hypothetical substance formerly thought to be a volatile constituent of all combustible substances, released as flame in combustion." I thought they were made from aluminum :) do not archive -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:02 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee At 12:28 PM 9/29/2005, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >Then you get the local competition working together and then your really >screwed. That sounds like something that is illegal. Can't remember the term. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:36 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> PGLong@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com > >I've become accustomed to checking on the weather on the following web site >for a quick go/no go. Anyone know what happened to this web site? Have not >been able to get the decoded weather in the past few days, nor any other >goodies found here. > > Dan runs this site from his home high speed Internet connection. If he is out of town or busy at work/flying and a problem with the computer or network connection comes up, it may take him some time to get around to fixing it. -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:20 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Guys: I am one of Dan's many friends. You have my word that Dan is working the issue and will have the site back up as soon as possible. If the site is not working by October 9th, Dan can install his backup software on my SPARE computer and hard drive to get the server back up. (Dan knows the combo code on my hangar can can get the hardware (AMD XP 3000 1GB RAM, 120 GB HD and 160 GB HD) any time he wants.) Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,776 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com (also down due to the server issue.) ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chuck Jensen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Dan Checkoway occasionally takes the site down for improvements/enhancements. The last time it was down for a couple days, I was going to demand my money back! Then I remembered what I paid for it and kept my mouth shut--and just thanked Dan for a great site when he got it back on line. Chuck Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Web site change?? --> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com I've become accustomed to checking on the weather on the following web site for a quick go/no go. Anyone know what happened to this web site? Have not been able to get the decoded weather in the past few days, nor any other goodies found here. _http://www.rvproject.com/wx/_ (http://www.rvproject.com/wx/) Hope it will be up again soon. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:37 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >I agree I can fly 28 miles and get gas for $1.21 cheaper. I believe in the >free market concept if there is a free market. But, at LWB the airport has >the sole source fuel contract. Bob, one source of fuel at 00V charges $3.90 a gallon. The other $3.73. Not far away is an airport that charges $3.00 and twice the distance the county airport is $2.80 self-serve. Not everything makes sense but I do have options as a consumer. I am curious if fuel prices cuts down on the number of planes that go to LOE in NM. I have cut down my hours some because of fuel prices but I was at 250 hours/year. I can drop 100 hours and still fly a lot. I just cut out the "round the patch" flights. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:45 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Mike, I have a Superior XP-IO360, and they say 91 octane mogas is fine, and in fact they encourage it. I plan to use at home airport for those $$$ burgers. Cross country, where it could pay off better, mostly unavailable. Totally legal to use mogas in experimental, btw, IINM... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR In a message dated 9/29/2005 12:03:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes: Time: 02:25:35 PM PST US From: "wskimike" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "wskimike" It sounds like I need to look at automotive fuel STC in my decision on which engine to order. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:25 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com List, Back in the days dinosaurs walked the earth, I had some gas stations, and here's the rationale the FBO *might* be using..... Typically, he would buy a tanker load of 10,000 gal. to get the best price. Let's say he paid 2.50/gal, or $25K. for the load in his tank. Being a good guy, he only marks it up to $3.00/gal for retail. During the course of selling his tank out, the wholesale price goes up to $3.00 gal. So next tanker will cost $30,000. Where does he get the additional $5,000? He can borrow it, take it out of profits, or raise price to cover replacement cost. What would you do? Food for thought, thas' all... BTW, current price at my and Van's home airport KUAO, is $3.29 for 100LL at S. end Jet Center... Not for long, I bet... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville OR In a message dated 9/29/2005 12:03:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport > KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager > bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at > $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel > and > leave the airport without any! > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:41 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: anodizing engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Only if you prove you're going to pull 10G's... Sorry... Do not archive... But still... I wonder if you can order a set of spars non-anodized? ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:03 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com List... Here's another thing... A lot of us use _www.airnav.com_ (http://www.airnav.com) to check fuel pricing on cross-country flying. I try to keep track and update pricing for them when wandering the country, but I see lots of places that haven't had an update for 3-6 months, so would beg fellow aviators to update fuel pricing as they go. This applies to locals too, especially as current prices are all over the map. I promise to do my part at KUAO... Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Pricing From: "Greg Young" --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Sounds like a really poor rationalization for price gouging. Greg Young ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pricing --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Can anyone explain aviation fuel pricing? It is now $4.91 at my airport KLWB (Lewisburg WV), before Katrina it was at $3.55. Airport manager bumped the fuel price up because he was worried if he left the price at $3.55 everyone on the east coast would in his words tanker out the fuel and leave the airport without any! Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:27 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Oops, missed the garage part :-( Bill S do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer A pile of parts in the garage is probably no likely to run over anything. :) do not archive Jerry Bill Schlatterer wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" > >Just out of curiosity, why would you NOT want liability insurance for only >$119? I assume that would be liability for things like running over or >chopping folks up, passenger injuries, hitting another airplane on the >ground, etc. ?? Is it a coverage or limits issue, must be missing >something? > > >Thanks Bill S >7a Ark fuse / panel > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of >czechsix@juno.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance--Go with AVEMCO > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" > >I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to >pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused >to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique >but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was >cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance. >I think that was for $70K coverage on my project. >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly... >From: "John Ciolino" >Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance >--> RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" >I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge >$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and >kills someone. >John Ciolino >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Perkinson" >Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" >> >> >>All, >>Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me >>per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are >>concerned it is just a pile of junk. >> >>Bob Perkinson >>Hendersonville, TN. >> >> > > >I got the same quote from AIG ($699) and thought it was ridiculous having to >pay $119 for liability, which I don't need and didn't want, but they refused >to write the policy without including it. Methinks it's a gouging technique >but I digress... Anyway, I went with AVEMCO which surprisingly was >cheaper....$583 if memory serves, without the pointless liability insurance. >I think that was for $70K coverage on my project. > > >--Mark Navratil > > >Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > >RV-8A N2D forever almost finished but never quite ready to fly... > > >From: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net > > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Project Insurance > > >-- RV-List message posted by: "John Ciolino" jbc2000@earthlink.net > > >I just paid Nationair $699 for AIG comprehensive and liability. They charge > > >$119 for liability in case it rolls out of my garage, down the street and > > >kills someone. > > >John Ciolino > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net > > >Subject: RV-List: Project Insurance > > > -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" bobperk@bellsouth.net > > > All, > > > Where can insurance be had to cover my project? How much will it cost me > > > per year?. Homeowners wont even talk to me about it, as far as they are > > > concerned it is just a pile of junk. > > > Bob Perkinson > > > Hendersonville, TN. > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:58 PM PST US From: Dan DeNeal Subject: RV-List: Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal A friend of mine is rebuilding his cowling from scratch on his Mustang II. He built the first one from scratch and did a great job but wants to build another one thats lighter. He has been looking over my cowls on my 6a and has asked me to find out if you can buy just the honeycomb somewhere? Dan DeNeal N256GD ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:28 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/29/2005 1:57:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net writes: >Phlogiston spars . . . > What? The spars are made from "A hypothetical substance formerly thought to be a volatile constituent of all combustible substances, released as flame in combustion." I thought they were made from aluminum :) ===================== Not "made from", "made by" Prometheus says do not archive ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:28 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel prices --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/29/2005 2:00:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ronlee@pcisys.net writes: >Then you get the local competition working together and then your really >screwed. That sounds like something that is illegal. Can't remember the term. ================================= It's called collusion. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:37 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/29/2005 8:31:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rv6apilot@yahoo.com writes: A friend of mine is rebuilding his cowling from scratch on his Mustang II. He built the first one from scratch and did a great job but wants to build another one thats lighter. He has been looking over my cowls on my 6a and has asked me to find out if you can buy just the honeycomb somewhere? ======================== Just a guess but I would try Hexcell. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:55 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Where to buy the honeycomb that is in our cowlings? --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/29/2005 9:06:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Vanremog@aol.com writes: A friend of mine is rebuilding his cowling from scratch on his Mustang II. He built the first one from scratch and did a great job but wants to build another one thats lighter. He has been looking over my cowls on my 6a and has asked me to find out if you can buy just the honeycomb somewhere? ======================== Just a guess but I would try Hexcell. ========================== Sorry, I misspelled Hexcel. Here's the link _http://www.hexcel.com/Products/Downloads/HexWeb+Honeycomb+Datasheets.htm_ (http://www.hexcel.com/Products/Downloads/HexWeb+Honeycomb+Datasheets.htm) GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:36 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Anodizining engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Ok guys, ya got my interest sparked. I'm finishing up engine baffling but have not yet riveted all the parts together. Will each piece have to be anodized prior to riveting or can the riveted assemblies be anodized as a unit? Are anodizing shops located in most large urban areas or would I have to send the parts off to Timbuktu? I understand and concur with the reduced fatigue life but would still like to see the engine compartment dressed up with something other than dull aluminum. Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Tampa bay Florida area ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:15 PM PST US From: Vanremog@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anodizining engine baffles --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/29/2005 9:59:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net writes: I'm finishing up engine baffling but have not yet riveted all the parts together. Will each piece have to be anodized prior to riveting or can the riveted assemblies be anodized as a unit? Are anodizing shops located in most large urban areas or would I have to send the parts off to Timbuktu? ============================ Anodizing shops are plentiful in industrialized areas and you must keep the parts in a disassembled state to have them anodized. The MIL-A-8625 Type II process uses sulfuric acid and all surfaces of the item must be fully exposed during the plating process and rinsed, dyed, sealed afterwards. About half of the final plated thickness occurs within the surface and about half is additive, so there is a slight dimensional change. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 765hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)