Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:06 AM - Re: Re:Auto Fuel/Fuel Injection ()
2. 04:49 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
3. 05:48 AM - Sealer on Whelen strobe lights (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Ron Lee)
5. 06:32 AM - Re: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (D.Bristol)
7. 07:30 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Richard Dudley)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (LessDragProd@aol.com)
9. 07:42 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
10. 08:09 AM - Re: Fuel Caps (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
11. 08:11 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (LessDragProd@aol.com)
12. 08:12 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Ron Lee)
13. 08:17 AM - New MT prop (Karen and Robert Brown)
14. 08:22 AM - Re: Canopy Part Numbers (Karen and Robert Brown)
15. 09:44 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Rob Prior (rv7))
16. 10:40 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Larry Pardue)
17. 11:07 AM - Re: Zero Thrust (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
18. 02:18 PM - Re: Zero Thrust (Kevin Horton)
19. 03:09 PM - Re: Zero Thrust (Tim Bryan)
20. 03:48 PM - Re: anodizing engine baffles ()
21. 05:31 PM - Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip (Bryan Hooks)
22. 05:39 PM - Re: Wing tip com antenna (DWAIN HARRIS)
23. 06:09 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip (Ed Anderson)
24. 06:13 PM - Re: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights (Dick DeCramer)
25. 06:33 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip (LarryRobertHelming)
26. 06:40 PM - Re: Wing tip com antenna (LarryRobertHelming)
27. 07:19 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip (Dan Checkoway)
28. 07:46 PM - Re: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights (David Burton)
29. 07:54 PM - Re: Zero Thrust (D.Bristol)
30. 08:04 PM - Re: Wing tip com antenna (GMC)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re:Auto Fuel/Fuel Injection |
--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
> > I agree that the gascolator may be un-needed (as long as you have
> > good tank drains).
>
> Unless you're building in Canada, in which case not installing a
Gascolator
> is not an option. Every Amateur-Built aircraft in Canada requires a
> Gascolator as per the CARs.
>
That's interesting. I know you guys are talking about fuel injected
engines, vapor locking, etc.; but, my factory built AA-5A Grumman-American
Cheetah did not have a gascolator.
In fact, I used that information to not install a gascolator in my RV. I
had one in my C172
and had no trouble with it; but, others had leak problems. I do have the
same type fuel
pump as in the Cheetah, that being the round type Facet with a small screen
in the bottom.
That is inspected at each annual. Rarely do I find so much as a drop of
water in the pump.
Never do I find junk in the screen. I also use auto gas.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Tech Counselor
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Since an actual engine out would put most c/s props to fine pitch, why
would anyone care where zero thrust is since you cant get it in an
engine out condition anyway?
And isn't a fp prop producing thrust at any speed at which the engine is
turning?
Guess I just don't see the point.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I guess I am with Ron. What does zero thrust mean?
Zero thrust is the condition where the thrust from the prop (under very
slight power) is equal to the drag of the prop disc. It is meant to
simulate a dead engine/ stopped prop condition. It is used often in
multi-engine training to simulate an engine out, without actually
shutting down the engine. If one were to simply shut down the engine,
the drag from the windmilling prop would be much more than the drag of a
stopped prop, so just killing the engine is not "zero-thrust."
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sealer on Whelen strobe lights |
--> RV-List message posted by:
Listers,
I just received my Whelen strobe lights. They are sealed with some white
ProSeal like, Sikaflex like substance which is quite rubbery and which seems
perfect for preserving wires from chaffing against each other as they come
out of connectors or pass through grommets. Any of you guys have an idea as
to what Whelen might have used ? Or could you recommend a similar product ?
Thanks,
Michele
RV8 - Fuselage
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Can someone explain what relevance "zero thrust" has
to flying an aircraft?
What practical application does it have?
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Sealer on Whelen strobe lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
E6000, Goop, ShoGoo will do the job just as well.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: RV-List: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights
--> RV-List message posted by:
Listers,
I just received my Whelen strobe lights. They are sealed with some white ProSeal
like, Sikaflex like substance which is quite rubbery and which seems perfect
for preserving wires from chaffing against each other as they come out of connectors
or pass through grommets. Any of you guys have an idea as to what Whelen
might have used ? Or could you recommend a similar product ?
Thanks,
Michele
RV8 - Fuselage
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
A C/S prop is still controllable to some degree as long as you have oil
pressure. If you don't have oil pressure, then the prop will be stopped
shortly anyway, so it makes little difference.
If you're going fast enough, any prop will drive the engine when the
power is off. It's like letting off the throttle in your car when the
car is moving, you get engine braking. The prop does the same thing.
Zero thrust is the point where the prop is not pulling or braking the
airplane.
Dave
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Since an actual engine out would put most c/s props to fine pitch, why
>would anyone care where zero thrust is since you cant get it in an
>engine out condition anyway?
>
>And isn't a fp prop producing thrust at any speed at which the engine is
>turning?
>
>Guess I just don't see the point.
>
>Mike
>Do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>I guess I am with Ron. What does zero thrust mean?
>
>Zero thrust is the condition where the thrust from the prop (under very
>slight power) is equal to the drag of the prop disc. It is meant to
>simulate a dead engine/ stopped prop condition. It is used often in
>multi-engine training to simulate an engine out, without actually
>shutting down the engine. If one were to simply shut down the engine,
>the drag from the windmilling prop would be much more than the drag of a
>
>stopped prop, so just killing the engine is not "zero-thrust."
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6
>Milwaukee
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Listers,
Thanks for the many responses.
This was not intended as a trick question.
My apologies for not expanding on the reasons for the question.
The CAFE report on the -6A described the use of microswitches to detect
when the force on the crankshaft shifted from "tractoring" to
"windmilling". They considered that transition to be "zero thrust" and
that the plane simulated a pure glider without securing the engine.
Years ago in Navy flight training in the SNJ (T6) there was a power
setting that was considered neither drag or thrust from the propeller.
This was used for engine out practice (assuming that the propeller could
be stopped from windmilling in the real case).
In the recent past on this list there was a thread about engine out
glide performance with and without a windmilling prop where some had
actually done the experiment with the engine secured. (Kevin's comment:
" isn't for the faint at heart".)
So, my question was intended to ask if anyone had determined a condition
(with the engine running) at which the glide performance was similar to
that with engine out and non-windmilling prop.
There seems to be a common belief that the sink rate with a constant
speed prop at idle is higher than a similar plane with a fixed pitch
prop. This suggests higher drag from the constant speed prop and that
some increase in manifold pressure short of adding thrust would result
in eliminating the effect of the prop.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
Ron Lee wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>
>
>
>
>>Has anyone done the testing to determine a power setting for zero thrust
>>in an RV-6 or -6A?
>>
>>
>
>Maybe this is a trick question but sounds like engine off.
>
>Ron Lee
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
Zero thrust is normally used to determine the total aircraft drag.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 10/05/2005 6:33:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ronlee@pcisys.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Can someone explain what relevance "zero thrust" has
to flying an aircraft?
What practical application does it have?
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Ok I get what Zero thrust is. But again:
Whats the point of caring what it is? What does knowing it do for me?
What change in decisioning would I make if I knew it?
And as a note:
On my c/s prop at best glide engine off, I can not make my prop change
pitch. Moving blue knob does nothing while prop is windmilling.
Mike
S8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Bristol
Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
--> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
A C/S prop is still controllable to some degree as long as you have oil
pressure. If you don't have oil pressure, then the prop will be stopped
shortly anyway, so it makes little difference.
If you're going fast enough, any prop will drive the engine when the
power is off. It's like letting off the throttle in your car when the
car is moving, you get engine braking. The prop does the same thing.
Zero thrust is the point where the prop is not pulling or braking the
airplane.
Dave
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Since an actual engine out would put most c/s props to fine pitch, why
>would anyone care where zero thrust is since you cant get it in an
>engine out condition anyway?
>
>And isn't a fp prop producing thrust at any speed at which the engine
is
>turning?
>
>Guess I just don't see the point.
>
>Mike
>Do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>I guess I am with Ron. What does zero thrust mean?
>
>Zero thrust is the condition where the thrust from the prop (under very
>slight power) is equal to the drag of the prop disc. It is meant to
>simulate a dead engine/ stopped prop condition. It is used often in
>multi-engine training to simulate an engine out, without actually
>shutting down the engine. If one were to simply shut down the engine,
>the drag from the windmilling prop would be much more than the drag of
a
>
>stopped prop, so just killing the engine is not "zero-thrust."
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6
>Milwaukee
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by:
I thought that people who hang around GA airplanes were a fine lot. In our
little airport in France, we have approximately 100 airplanes, 40 of which
are homebuilts. People tend to know each other as there are a lot of old
pilots. Things were fine in the best of possible worlds 'till one day,
someone, while fueling up, discovered some white crystalline stuff at the
fuel tank entrance on a DR400. Upon closer examination, it turned out to be
sugar. Believe or not, we found three airplanes with over a pound of sugar
in the gas tanks, one of which flew for an hour - mercifully, sugar does not
seem to disolve in gazoline, and the filters got it. Of coures, this is
criminal and there is an investigation by our local Gendarmerie to uncover
who did this. Believe me, we were p?"&x@ed.
Furthermore, the price of gazoline is bound to go up some.
These two facts convinced me that there is definite valu in installing
lockable gas caps.
I installed Van's deluxe caps on my RV8, they look great, a lot better than
the standard offering. I have not flown with them but they passed the tank
leaks test with flying colors.
That's my two cents worth.
Michele
RV8 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed OConnor
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Caps
--> RV-List message posted by: Ed OConnor <Edwardoconnor@mac.com>
I installed them on my RV-8 and they were simple to install (used
Proseal) and they sealed with no problem. Very high quality. Only down
side is they do restrict the size of the opening slightly but no problem for
normal nozzle or gas can spout. They look great and with the price of 100LL
it is good you can lock them up.
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
G'day all,
Does anyone have experience with the Deluxe Fuel Caps available from Vans.
I am interested in knowing how they look and how well they seal in
comparison to the standard caps. I wouldn't mind the ability to lock my
tanks.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
Hi All,
I believe it takes about 1300 RPM for the governor to have control of the
propeller.
I believe you will see the propeller windmilling at around 1000 RPM in low
pitch.
So it isn't going to work to try to reduce the RPM with coarse pitch on a
standard CS propeller.
The counterweighted blade CS propeller operates from coarse pitch (low RPM),
instead of fine pitch (high RPM). With the same best glide engine off
situation, the counterweighted blades automatically go towards coarse pitch (low
RPM) providing a 67% decrease in propeller drag (on MT propellers).
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 10/05/2005 7:43:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Ok I get what Zero thrust is. But again:
Whats the point of caring what it is? What does knowing it do for me?
What change in decisioning would I make if I knew it?
And as a note:
On my c/s prop at best glide engine off, I can not make my prop change
pitch. Moving blue knob does nothing while prop is windmilling.
Mike
S8
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
I am a bit slow with some concepts so bear with me.
It seems like this zero thrust issue may be relevant to
determining engine out glide path. I am still unclear
on the real world implication. Assume you lose power
and lower the nose to near best glide speed. Won't the
prop continue to turn? If so, how is that tied to zero thrust?
I have a fixed pitch prop.
Ron Lee
Do not archive since I don't want my ignorance recorded for posterity.
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
I am so stoked, I just installed the new MT 2 blade prop on my RV7A (MTV15B).
Wow, what a thing of beauty. It came with a beautiful spinner, backing plate,
all cut and fitted and painted. No RPM restriction on a Lyc, blended airfoil,
all aluminum hub and blades, lighter than a Hartzell. It looks fast just sitting
there!
Bob Brown
RV7A - fitting cowl
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Part Numbers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
Hey John-
I know exactly what you're talking about. In my case, I am lucky that there are
about 35 RV's on the field here. After I had spent about...20 hrs messing with
the frame and finally ready to give up and modify the plane so I just used
a windscreen, one of my neighbors showed up, got western with the frame and in
10 minutes it was fitted.
I used adhesive on the canopy and skirts and am real happy with the fit. Keep
after it and see if you can find another builder to look it over and give you
an opinion and some support.
Bob Brown
RV-7A - fitting cowl - the last 99%
do not archive
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 8:10:46 2005-10-05 Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net> wrote:
> I am a bit slow with some concepts so bear with me.
> It seems like this zero thrust issue may be relevant to
> determining engine out glide path. I am still unclear
> on the real world implication. Assume you lose power
> and lower the nose to near best glide speed. Won't the
> prop continue to turn? If so, how is that tied to zero thrust?
> I have a fixed pitch prop.
Unless you have a wooden prop or some kind of catastrophic failure within
your engine case, your prop is likely to keep turning unless you actively
try to stop it. A wooden prop has a lot less momentum in it, if you apply
almost *any* back pressure on the stick with the engine stopped, the prop
will stop turning very quickly. A metal prop will take more of a nose-up
attitude to get the blades to stop turning.
If you are reasonably high when you have an engine failure, you will be
better off stopping the prop first before starting your glide. You may
increase your range considerably. The trade-off is that you will first
lose some airspeed while you're stopping the prop, then some altitude when
you regain your glide speed.
I haven't run the numbers on an RV, but I did do it for a Cessna 150 (with
a metal prop) a while ago, and my recollection was that the "break even"
point was very near 2000'. Over 2000', I could stretch my glide by
stopping the prop. Under 2000', I get a longer glide by riding it down.
And it's a lot safer to try these things than people think. Take your
plane up to 5000' sometime, and pull the mixture. Engine stops. Push it
in again. Engine starts. Prop keeps turning either way. Do it again, and
this time pull the nose up until the prop stops. Then you can either push
the nose down to get the prop to start spinning, or flick your starter, and
push the mixture back in. The engine will start right up.
-Rob
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On 10/5/05 8:27 AM, "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley@att.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
> Listers,
> Thanks for the many responses.
> This was not intended as a trick question.
> My apologies for not expanding on the reasons for the question.
> The CAFE report on the -6A described the use of microswitches to detect
> when the force on the crankshaft shifted from "tractoring" to
> "windmilling". They considered that transition to be "zero thrust" and
> that the plane simulated a pure glider without securing the engine.
> Years ago in Navy flight training in the SNJ (T6) there was a power
> setting that was considered neither drag or thrust from the propeller.
> This was used for engine out practice (assuming that the propeller could
> be stopped from windmilling in the real case).
> In the recent past on this list there was a thread about engine out
> glide performance with and without a windmilling prop where some had
> actually done the experiment with the engine secured. (Kevin's comment:
I did a very rough experiment at one speed where I compared engine at idle,
engine shut off but propeller windmilling and propeller stopped. There were
the expected differences, but they were not of a large magnitude. Should be
in the archives somewhere.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying, Fixed Pitch Sensenich
http://n5lp.net
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
The difference between stopped and the slow windmill at my best glide
was negligible on my fat blade hartzell c/s prop. I agree with the
previous post about stopping the prop. I decided if I have over 3k'agl,
I would pitch up to stop the prop then resume best glide. Requires stick
nearly in my lap on the 8 do it and not something I would be comfortable
doing below 3k'.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On 10/5/05 8:27 AM, "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley@att.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
> Listers,
> Thanks for the many responses.
> This was not intended as a trick question.
> My apologies for not expanding on the reasons for the question.
> The CAFE report on the -6A described the use of microswitches to
detect
> when the force on the crankshaft shifted from "tractoring" to
> "windmilling". They considered that transition to be "zero thrust" and
> that the plane simulated a pure glider without securing the engine.
> Years ago in Navy flight training in the SNJ (T6) there was a power
> setting that was considered neither drag or thrust from the propeller.
> This was used for engine out practice (assuming that the propeller
could
> be stopped from windmilling in the real case).
> In the recent past on this list there was a thread about engine out
> glide performance with and without a windmilling prop where some had
> actually done the experiment with the engine secured. (Kevin's
comment:
I did a very rough experiment at one speed where I compared engine at
idle,
engine shut off but propeller windmilling and propeller stopped. There
were
the expected differences, but they were not of a large magnitude.
Should be
in the archives somewhere.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying, Fixed Pitch Sensenich
http://n5lp.net
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 5 Oct 2005, at 10:41, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Ok I get what Zero thrust is. But again:
> Whats the point of caring what it is? What does knowing it do for me?
> What change in decisioning would I make if I knew it?
>
>
> And as a note:
> On my c/s prop at best glide engine off, I can not make my prop change
> pitch. Moving blue knob does nothing while prop is windmilling.
>
> Mike
> S8
It is useful to know how to simulate a zero thrust condition if you
have a multi-engined aircraft where you would feather the prop after
an engine failure. For training, you would put the simulated failed
engine in a zero thrust condition, rather than shut it down and
feather the prop.
For single-engined aircraft, people generally do the training with
the engine at idle. If the prop stops in a real engine failure, the
glide performance will be a bit different than it was during training
with engine at idle. But, the real problem is what happens if the
engine fails and the prop keeps windmilling. A windmilling constant-
speed prop will create a lot more drag than was seen during training
with engine at idle.
I can see the value in finding a condition that will simulate a
windmilling prop (e.g. with partial flaps and power, to simulate
flaps up with failed engine and windmilling prop). I don't
immediately see the value in simulating a zero thrust condition. But
maybe I am missing something.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
Another thought.
I was taught during primary training in a fixed pitch prop airplane to set
the throttle to zero thrust when abreast of the runway for landing. The
theory, I guess, was that if the airplane was in landing configuration with
zero thrust then if the engine quit you wouldn't have much change in your
approach for landing. Like I said, I guess, because I certainlyh didn't
understand much at that stage of the game. I been flying mostly constant
speed since then so it isn't as relavant.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Zero Thrust
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 5 Oct 2005, at 10:41, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Ok I get what Zero thrust is. But again:
> Whats the point of caring what it is? What does knowing it do for me?
> What change in decisioning would I make if I knew it?
>
>
> And as a note:
> On my c/s prop at best glide engine off, I can not make my prop change
> pitch. Moving blue knob does nothing while prop is windmilling.
>
> Mike
> S8
It is useful to know how to simulate a zero thrust condition if you
have a multi-engined aircraft where you would feather the prop after
an engine failure. For training, you would put the simulated failed
engine in a zero thrust condition, rather than shut it down and
feather the prop.
For single-engined aircraft, people generally do the training with
the engine at idle. If the prop stops in a real engine failure, the
glide performance will be a bit different than it was during training
with engine at idle. But, the real problem is what happens if the
engine fails and the prop keeps windmilling. A windmilling constant-
speed prop will create a lot more drag than was seen during training
with engine at idle.
I can see the value in finding a condition that will simulate a
windmilling prop (e.g. with partial flaps and power, to simulate
flaps up with failed engine and windmilling prop). I don't
immediately see the value in simulating a zero thrust condition. But
maybe I am missing something.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: anodizing engine baffles |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Anodized can cause cracking if not done properly. It is called hydrogen embittlment.
If done properly the change in fatigue life is small, but it is not the
ideal finish. It all depends on the surface and material. If you bead shot blast
a surface you can improve fatigue and crack resistance, but that does not make
sense for a clad aluminum material. Bare aluminum yes you can peen the surface.
However we are talking about sheet metal and there is not a lot you can
do because shot blasting can warp it.
In a message dated 9/27/2005 5:04:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
sarg314@comcast.net writes:
I am just starting on my engine baffles. I saw another builder's plane
which had the baffles blue anodized and it looks good. However,
anodizing hardens the surface and might make it more prone to crack.
I'm just guessing here.
Does any one have any experience with this? Are there planes with
hundreds of hours on them with anodized baffled that haven't cracked?
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Searched the archives with no luck so I thought I'd toss this out to
everyone -
The roll bar on my 7A tip-up is not terrible, but it's not a work of art
either. So, I am considering putting a strip of fiberglass over the aft
end of the tip-up canopy to 'hide' it. It would be about 2-3 inches
wide, overhang the aft window by about a half and inch, and would only
be attached to the tip up portion. I was thinking that this might also
prevent leaks between the aft window and the tip up, as well as
eliminate or reduce wind noise since there is a small gap between the
two halves.
A friend did this, and it blew off in-flight fairly quickly. As a
result, he suggests using screws to ensure a permanent attachment.
Anyone have any recommendations regarding this, or reasons not to use
the glass at all?
Since the strip would not be attached to the aft window, would air
pressure or wind try to get underneath it from the back and try to rip
it off or crack of chunks and pieces?
Thanks in advance.
Bryan Hooks
RV-7A tip-up, finish kit, slow-build
Knoxville, TN
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip com antenna |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DWAIN HARRIS" <DJaerosports@msn.com>
Hey Jim ,My has worked great for the last 7yrs
Dwain Harris
RV-6 N164DH
Tehachapi, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: AYRES, JIMMY L<mailto:JAYRES@entergy.com>
To: 'rv-list@matronics.com'<mailto:'rv-list@matronics.com'>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wing tip com antenna
--> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES@entergy.com<mailto:JAYRES@entergy.com>>
Hey Guys,
I am conducting a survey. Does anyone out there flying have a wing tip installed
com antenna? If so does it work? Well?
Thanks for your feedback.
Jimmy Ayres
RV7AQB
<style>
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a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
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</style>
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hey Guys,
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am conducting a survey. Does anyone out there flying
have a wing tip installed com antenna? If so does it work? Well?
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks for your feedback.
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Jimmy Ayres
<span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>RV7AQB
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
For what its worth, Bryan. I installed an aluminum strip 3" wide of 0.032
2024T3 on the aft end of my tip-up. It overhangs the back part by approx 1
1/2", hides my not so even canopy cut and keeps the wind/rain out. I
installed mine before pop riveting the canopy to the frame, so could use the
same pop rivets as held the canopy. Have 300 hours on it with no problem.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
>
> Searched the archives with no luck so I thought I'd toss this out to
> everyone -
>
> The roll bar on my 7A tip-up is not terrible, but it's not a work of art
> either. So, I am considering putting a strip of fiberglass over the aft
> end of the tip-up canopy to 'hide' it. It would be about 2-3 inches
> wide, overhang the aft window by about a half and inch, and would only
> be attached to the tip up portion. I was thinking that this might also
> prevent leaks between the aft window and the tip up, as well as
> eliminate or reduce wind noise since there is a small gap between the
> two halves.
>
> A friend did this, and it blew off in-flight fairly quickly. As a
> result, he suggests using screws to ensure a permanent attachment.
> Anyone have any recommendations regarding this, or reasons not to use
> the glass at all?
>
> Since the strip would not be attached to the aft window, would air
> pressure or wind try to get underneath it from the back and try to rip
> it off or crack of chunks and pieces?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bryan Hooks
> RV-7A tip-up, finish kit, slow-build
> Knoxville, TN
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Sealer on Whelen strobe lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
I thought the sealer on the strobes was just silicon but I really don't
know. However, I have the good fortune of being based at an airport that
has a Cirrus approved warranty maintenance center and get to see how Cirrus
Aircraft are constructed. All wires and push/pull controls which pass
through the firewall have a stainless steel cover over a rubber grommet
covered with a healthy dab of red high temperature silicone. They also have
conduits to run wires through and they place a dab at the end of the
conduit enclosing the wires as well. I did that on my RV6 and found it
relieves strain on the wires, keeps chaffing down and it can be easily cut
away if need be to rewire if you wish.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD
90 hours
Northfield, MN
>
> Subject: RV-List: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights
>
> --> RV-List message posted by:
>
> Listers,
>
> I just received my Whelen strobe lights. They are sealed with some white
> ProSeal like, Sikaflex like substance which is quite rubbery and which
seems
> perfect for preserving wires from chaffing against each other as they come
> out of connectors or pass through grommets. Any of you guys have an idea
as
> to what Whelen might have used ? Or could you recommend a similar product
?
>
> Thanks,
> Michele
> RV8 - Fuselage
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
There is discussion in the archives on this. Search for targa strip.
It should be built as you describe. Attach with adhesive and use the screws
that hold the canopy glass on the roll over bar. You may need screws that
are about 1/8" longer than supplied with kit. Lots of tip ups have this
strip. Carefully done and finished it will enhance the looks of your plane
and be functional for keeping water and wind out. It will also hide any
unsightly damage or work. I for instance have both corners at the bottom
with cracks where the canopy glass edge has touched the metal skin while
closing. The targa strip will hide that.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 65 hours and still
grinning.........
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
>
> Searched the archives with no luck so I thought I'd toss this out to
> everyone -
>
> The roll bar on my 7A tip-up is not terrible, but it's not a work of art
> either. So, I am considering putting a strip of fiberglass over the aft
> end of the tip-up canopy to 'hide' it. It would be about 2-3 inches
> wide, overhang the aft window by about a half and inch, and would only
> be attached to the tip up portion. I was thinking that this might also
> prevent leaks between the aft window and the tip up, as well as
> eliminate or reduce wind noise since there is a small gap between the
> two halves.
>
> A friend did this, and it blew off in-flight fairly quickly. As a
> result, he suggests using screws to ensure a permanent attachment.
> Anyone have any recommendations regarding this, or reasons not to use
> the glass at all?
>
> Since the strip would not be attached to the aft window, would air
> pressure or wind try to get underneath it from the back and try to rip
> it off or crack of chunks and pieces?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bryan Hooks
> RV-7A tip-up, finish kit, slow-build
> Knoxville, TN
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip com antenna |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
There should be some discussions in the archive on this. But a quick answer
based on my research before I installed a bent antenna on the bottom of my
plane was that the wing tip concealed antenna works nicely except sometimes
when the antenna is on the opposite side away from where you need to
communicate. This situation could be plane to plane communications (
hearing another plane near you making an announcement) or ATC that you are
required to communicate with when in controlled airspace. I liked the idea
of a concealed antenna, but I did not like the idea of the consequences of
what might happen if I missed a call or could not be heard when making a
broadcast.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
----- Original Message -----
From: "DWAIN HARRIS" <DJaerosports@msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing tip com antenna
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DWAIN HARRIS" <DJaerosports@msn.com>
>
> Hey Jim ,My has worked great for the last 7yrs
> Dwain Harris
> RV-6 N164DH
> Tehachapi, Ca
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AYRES, JIMMY L<mailto:JAYRES@entergy.com>
> To: 'rv-list@matronics.com'<mailto:'rv-list@matronics.com'>
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:06 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Wing tip com antenna
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L"
> <JAYRES@entergy.com<mailto:JAYRES@entergy.com>>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
>
> I am conducting a survey. Does anyone out there flying have a wing tip
> installed com antenna? If so does it work? Well?
>
>
> Thanks for your feedback.
>
>
> Jimmy Ayres
>
> RV7AQB
>
>
> <style>
> <!--
> /* Style Definitions */
> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;
> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:"Times New Roman";}
> a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;
> text-decoration:underline;}
> a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:#606420;
> text-decoration:underline;}
> span.EmailStyle17
> {font-family:Arial;
> color:windowtext;}
> @page Section1
> {size:8.5in 11.0in;
> margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
> div.Section1
> {page:Section1;}
> -->
> </style>
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Hey Guys,
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am conducting a survey. Does anyone out there flying
> have a wing tip installed com antenna? If so does it work? Well?
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for your feedback.
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Jimmy Ayres
>
>
> <span style'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>RV7AQB
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
If I recall, Van's construction manual for the -7 covers this pretty well --
maybe it's just the slider windshield joint thing that they cover, but the
principal is the same, right?
What they DO NOT say, which I believe would be helpful, is that you should
NOT countersink the plexi along the rear bow if you're going to use a targa
strip on a tip-up. (Keep in mind that on the -7 they went to screws/nuts
instead of pop rivets.)
Instead, I personally think it would be better to countersink through the
fiberglass strip -- and a bit of the plexi in the process, but not as much.
In my case, I built the canopy to the plans. If I want to install a targa
strip now, which I do plan on doing someday, then it will most likely cover
the screw heads. Not a huge deal really, but I think it would be better if
the strip were sandwiched in there with the screws. Yeah, I could install
new screws in between existing holes, and you'd never know the difference
from the outside, but that's a little funky imho. I'll probably just lay
the strip up over the bow and the screws will be in there for good (like
most of the rest of the canopy fasteners are anyway).
Next time I'd probably include the strip integrally from the get-go,
countersink the strip, and have the screws hold the strip on. Yes, I would
use epoxy to hold the strip on just like the construction manual describes,
but I think having the screws sandwich it in there would be a little added
assurance.
In any case, I'm just thinking out loud here. In your case, just rough that
plexi up really well before doing the layup. I suspect your friend's
"adhesion issue" was due to not roughing things up enough, or perhaps not
cleaning it well enough before doing the layup. Just food for thought.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip-up canopy aft end fiberglass strip
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> There is discussion in the archives on this. Search for targa strip.
>
> It should be built as you describe. Attach with adhesive and use the
> screws
> that hold the canopy glass on the roll over bar. You may need screws that
> are about 1/8" longer than supplied with kit. Lots of tip ups have this
> strip. Carefully done and finished it will enhance the looks of your
> plane
> and be functional for keeping water and wind out. It will also hide any
> unsightly damage or work. I for instance have both corners at the bottom
> with cracks where the canopy glass edge has touched the metal skin while
> closing. The targa strip will hide that.
>
> Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 65 hours and still
> grinning.........
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks@comcast.net>
>>
>> Searched the archives with no luck so I thought I'd toss this out to
>> everyone -
>>
>> The roll bar on my 7A tip-up is not terrible, but it's not a work of art
>> either. So, I am considering putting a strip of fiberglass over the aft
>> end of the tip-up canopy to 'hide' it. It would be about 2-3 inches
>> wide, overhang the aft window by about a half and inch, and would only
>> be attached to the tip up portion. I was thinking that this might also
>> prevent leaks between the aft window and the tip up, as well as
>> eliminate or reduce wind noise since there is a small gap between the
>> two halves.
>>
>> A friend did this, and it blew off in-flight fairly quickly. As a
>> result, he suggests using screws to ensure a permanent attachment.
>> Anyone have any recommendations regarding this, or reasons not to use
>> the glass at all?
>>
>> Since the strip would not be attached to the aft window, would air
>> pressure or wind try to get underneath it from the back and try to rip
>> it off or crack of chunks and pieces?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Bryan Hooks
>> RV-7A tip-up, finish kit, slow-build
>> Knoxville, TN
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Sealer on Whelen strobe lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> I just received my Whelen strobe lights. They are sealed with some white
> ProSeal like, Sikaflex like substance which is quite rubbery and which
seems
> perfect for preserving wires from chaffing against each other as they come
> out of connectors or pass through grommets. Any of you guys have an idea
as
> to what Whelen might have used ? Or could you recommend a similar product
?
Hi Michele,
It's called potting compound and you can find it at any electronics shop.
Here is a link to a bunch of different ones:
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/832tc.html
We buy it in disposable syringes that fit in a plier like tool that
dispenses the compound. As others have said already, silicone or E6000
might be just as good or better. I guess I vote for silicon since the other
two might be difficult to remove...
Good luck!
Dave,
RV6
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Jim,
I tried this is my 6/Hartzel just 2 days ago and found that at 75-80
mph indicated and idle power, there was a big change when I pulled the
prop to coarse pitch, it was actually quite dramatic. Also, if I leave
the prop at cruise setting while landing, the airplane will float, where
if it's all the way in, it just kerplunks on.
Empirical evidence for sure, but there is enough difference to be quite
noticeable well below 1300 rpm. Considering that with an engine out,
I'll probably be gliding at about 100 mph, pulling the prop should be
quite effective.
Dave B.
LessDragProd@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I believe it takes about 1300 RPM for the governor to have control of the
>propeller.
>I believe you will see the propeller windmilling at around 1000 RPM in low
>pitch.
>So it isn't going to work to try to reduce the RPM with coarse pitch on a
>standard CS propeller.
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip com antenna |
--> RV-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Hi Jim
I do not have wing tip Com antenna but have had problems twice in about
20 total hours when flying formation with a leader with wingtip antenna.
On 2 mile final and lead requests low and over - tower unable to
understand, garbled. Vic formation and aircraft on one side unable to
understand.
Otherwise OK.
do not archive
George in Langley BC
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L"
>><JAYRES@entergy.com<mailto:JAYRES@entergy.com>>
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>>
>> I am conducting a survey. Does anyone out there flying have a wing tip
>>installed com antenna? If so does it work? Well?
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback.
>>
>>
>> Jimmy Ayres
>>
>> RV7AQB
>>
>>
>>
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