Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up (Dan Checkoway)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: oil drain valve (Brian Denk)
4. 05:21 AM - Re: Starter not disengaging (linn walters)
5. 05:30 AM - Beaded end on aluminum tube (Ron Schreck)
6. 05:45 AM - Re: Starter not disengaging (LarryRobertHelming)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: Starter not disengaging (Kelly McMullen)
8. 07:27 AM - Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) (Darwin N. Barrie)
9. 07:28 AM - Re: Starter not disengaging (sportav8r@aol.com)
10. 07:31 AM - Re: Front baffles. (Karen and Robert Brown)
11. 09:08 AM - Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up (lancenewman)
12. 09:48 AM - Re: Starter not disengaging (John Danielson)
13. 09:54 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 10/24/05 (LClark6372@aol.com)
14. 10:30 AM - Re: Front baffles. (HCRV6@comcast.net)
15. 10:53 AM - rare, self-serving commercial announcement (sportav8r@aol.com)
16. 12:37 PM - Infinity Stick Grip (jim & terri truitt)
17. 12:47 PM - Re: Oil cooler types. (HCRV6@comcast.net)
18. 12:58 PM - Starter not disengaging (HCRV6@comcast.net)
19. 01:06 PM - Re: Oil cooler types. (Larry Bowen)
20. 01:20 PM - Re: Infinity Stick Grip (Scott Bilinski)
21. 01:40 PM - electric vs manual (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
22. 02:36 PM - Re: Front baffles. (Kevin Horton)
23. 02:51 PM - Re: electric vs manual (LarryRobertHelming)
24. 03:10 PM - Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) (linn walters)
25. 03:32 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Dan Checkoway)
26. 04:25 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
27. 04:35 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Ron Lee)
28. 04:35 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Albert Gardner)
29. 04:40 PM - Re: electric vs manual (LarryRobertHelming)
30. 05:25 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
31. 05:29 PM - Tools (John Furey)
32. 06:12 PM - Re: electric vs manual (James H Nelson)
33. 07:15 PM - Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) (Charlie England)
34. 08:11 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Dave Nellis)
35. 08:33 PM - Re: electric vs manual (Vanremog@aol.com)
36. 08:59 PM - Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up (sarg314)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Dean,
If I were doing it over again, I would mount the oil cooler on the ENGINE
MOUNT right behind/slightly below #4, with the exit facing as downward as
possible. I would fabricate a fiberglass duct off the baffles, to a short
length of 4" SCAT, to a reverse duct (diffuser?) on the front/top of the oil
cooler.
By doing this you remove the weight of the oil cooler from the baffles,
which I personally believe reduces the stress on the baffles immensely. I'm
speaking from theory, not experience, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also read your previous email about oil cooler types, and I usually
recommend the Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler for any Lycoming variant up to
180hp. It works on a 200hp angle valve engine, but it's on the verge of
being slightly too small. Cools absolutely great when LOP, cools tolerably
when ROP, doesn't cool so great at slow airspeeds. On a 180hp parallel
valve engine, the 8406R should be plenty, assuming you've got a reasonably
tight baffle setup or a plenum. Just my 2 cents.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (651 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
>
> Having read the Checkoway oil cooler saga, his recommendations and looking
> at his pictures...I see he has NOT used the flimsy mounting template that
> Van's provides. He also mentions that several people he's talked to have
had
> problems with the Van's set up. So (I hope the folks he's referring to
are
> on this list) should I beef up the cooler mounting using the heavy
channels
> that Dan used (where'd you get those channels Dan)? Or something else? I
> have an RV-6A and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clearance behind the
> cooler (oil cooler flange to engine mount clearance) to add much width
> between the back baffle and the cooler mounting flange. Suggestions?
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Dodged the hurricane bullet again...
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
This is same style I use. Works great. No leaks after 74 hours. I bought
mine from Vans however. I reviewed other prices and overall with some
exceptions they have fine pricing. The oil drain is PMA'ed and FAA
approved. For the price, I would buy it.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy@comcast.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html
>
> Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick oil
> drain valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true but I'm not
> sure price is a good indicator here.
>
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: oil drain valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html
>
>Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick oil
>drain valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true but I'm not
>sure price is a good indicator here.
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
They should be fine. Rather odd how the advert describes it as made of
aluminum and stainless in the long description then says it's made of brass
as you read down to the bulleted specifications. It's probably solid brass
and steel as mine was. Mine did start leaking so I replaced it with a
Fumoto valve that is excellent. http://fumotovalve.com/
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Why not go to the source? Contact Les Staples at lstaples@itexas.net.
The email support at Sky-Tec is superb.
Linn
do not archive
HCRV6@comcast.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
>
>Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the
Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started
to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any
insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is.
>
>--
>Harry Crosby
>RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
>Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the Sky
Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started
to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any
insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is.
>
>--
>Harry Crosby
>RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Beaded end on aluminum tube |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck@alltel.net>
Here's another solution: Put a compression fitting on the end of the tube. After
you torque down the fitting, the little brass ring is swaged onto the tube
and is going nowhere. Just remove the compression nut from the other end and
leave the brass ring in place. It does the same job as a beaded end.
Ron Schreck
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
Dwight Frye Wrote: I had a friend with an RV-4 who had a similar
problem. He noticed that
some safety-wire holding some baffles had started to saw a nice little
slot in an oil return line. We fabricated another one (with slightly
different routing) and then wanted to put a bead on the end of the tube.
There seem to be two choices (three if you decide, as another list member
suggested, to simply not worry about it). One is getting one of the really
nice Parker-style beading tool sets. They apparently do a beautiful job
but are NOT economical for one or two uses. Or, you can do what we did
and get an Earls EZ-Beader. See http://www.amstreetrod.com/011ERL.php4
for details. One for the tubing we needed was less than $20 and gave him
some extra peace of mind knowing that the bead was on there.
The tool is about as simple as it gets ... and does a fairly good job. The
bead is a bit "thinner" than what was on the original, but does fulfill
the task of making it extremely unlikely that the tubing would slip out
of the little rubber hose.
Honestly, I don't see how it could slip out anyway given the geometry of
the whole setup .... but since there was a bead there originally, we felt
best adding one to the new piece of tubing if we could. So we did
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
My starter instructions on my TMX-O360 says I should spray some silicone on
the gears every 50 hours.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 74 hours of grinning and
the lines are setting in.............
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6@comcast.net>
<Engines-List@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging
> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
>
> Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours
> the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A
> has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure
> appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and
> what the fix is.
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
That instruction is for starters with a Bendix gear. Skytecs do not have a
Bendix gear and require no external lubrication.
Do Not Archive
KM
A&P
LarryRobertHelming said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> My starter instructions on my TMX-O360 says I should spray some silicone
> on
> the gears every 50 hours.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <HCRV6@comcast.net>
> To: "RV-List" <RV-list@matronics.com>; "engines-list"
> <Engines-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
At 146
>> hours
>> the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A
>> has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Don't get too worked up over the temperature issues with epoxy. I have a friend
that makes parts for several of the NASCAR teams and he uses West Systems and
EZ Poxy. These are standard over the counter products. If they don't have temp
issues I don't think we will.
Also a plenum has a constant source of air movement. The key is to make sure the
epoxy is mixed properly.
Good luck.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
A search of the AeroElectric-list archives, under "PM Starter & Run-on" might be
most enlightening. Prolonged gear engagement due to auto-generation of voltage
in the starter is a well-known phenomenon, with a straightforward fix that
involves rewiring your starter relay circuit. It's all in the 'Connection book
as well.
Strangely, even though I have a Sky-Tec and a panel indicator light to tell me
if the relay stays engaged, it's never been an issue on my particular ship, even
with conventional wiring scheme. Obviously, "mileage varies" with this problem.
-Stormy
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6@comcast.net>
<Engines-List@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging
> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
>
> Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours
> the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A
> has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure
> appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and
> what the fix is.
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Front baffles. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
just as an FYI to the rest of the list, the glass plenum we put on the 8A took
less than 8 hrs of work time to complete(excluding epoxy cure), including nut
plates and AL angle fitting...(this assumes the AL baffle structure in place)
do not archive
Bob Brown
RV7A Gear leg fairings
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lancenewman" <lancenewman@comcast.net>
Dan,
This may seem a bit un-orthodox, but works great for my installation.
Both Oil cooler and cabin heat box
mounted on right side of firewall. Oil cooler above cabin air box. During
the warm 6 months of the year, my exhaust heat muff is removed for lack of
use. A 3 inch scat tube feeds cool air to my oil cooler giving me temps in
the 190-194F range most of the time with slide on the bottom of the oil
cooler closed off 3/4. In the winter, heat muff is hooked back up. Warm
bypass air from the heat box flows up past the oil cooler keeping my oil
temps again in the 185-190F range most of the winter months. Oil cooler
slide is wide open.
Seems to work real well on my 0320engine. No undue stress on the baffling.
Enjoy your web site by the way. Keep up the good work.
Lance
Newman
Seattle
RV6
110
hours and still having fun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Dean,
>
> If I were doing it over again, I would mount the oil cooler on the ENGINE
> MOUNT right behind/slightly below #4, with the exit facing as downward as
> possible. I would fabricate a fiberglass duct off the baffles, to a short
> length of 4" SCAT, to a reverse duct (diffuser?) on the front/top of the
> oil
> cooler.
>
> By doing this you remove the weight of the oil cooler from the baffles,
> which I personally believe reduces the stress on the baffles immensely.
> I'm
> speaking from theory, not experience, so take this with a grain of salt.
>
> I also read your previous email about oil cooler types, and I usually
> recommend the Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler for any Lycoming variant up
> to
> 180hp. It works on a 200hp angle valve engine, but it's on the verge of
> being slightly too small. Cools absolutely great when LOP, cools
> tolerably
> when ROP, doesn't cool so great at slow airspeeds. On a 180hp parallel
> valve engine, the 8406R should be plenty, assuming you've got a reasonably
> tight baffle setup or a plenum. Just my 2 cents.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (651 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
> <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>>
>>
>> Having read the Checkoway oil cooler saga, his recommendations and
>> looking
>> at his pictures...I see he has NOT used the flimsy mounting template that
>> Van's provides. He also mentions that several people he's talked to have
> had
>> problems with the Van's set up. So (I hope the folks he's referring to
> are
>> on this list) should I beef up the cooler mounting using the heavy
> channels
>> that Dan used (where'd you get those channels Dan)? Or something else?
>> I
>> have an RV-6A and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clearance behind the
>> cooler (oil cooler flange to engine mount clearance) to add much width
>> between the back baffle and the cooler mounting flange. Suggestions?
>>
>> Dean Psiropoulos
>> RV-6A N197DM
>> Dodged the hurricane bullet again...
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
I remember reading that Ken with Vans had a similar issue of starter
staying engaged for a second or two. I believe the fix was to install
resistor on starter relay.
Check past issues of the RViator, like 1999.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Subject: Re: RV-List: Starter not disengaging
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
That instruction is for starters with a Bendix gear. Skytecs do not have
a
Bendix gear and require no external lubrication.
Do Not Archive
KM
A&P
LarryRobertHelming said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> My starter instructions on my TMX-O360 says I should spray some
silicone
> on
> the gears every 50 hours.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <HCRV6@comcast.net>
> To: "RV-List" <RV-list@matronics.com>; "engines-list"
> <Engines-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
At 146
>> hours
>> the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360
A1A
>> has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 10/24/05 |
--> RV-List message posted by: LClark6372@aol.com
looking for a rv8 (tailwheel) project nearing completion lclark6372@aol.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Front baffles. |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
Dean: I did just as you described, trimmed the baffles to follow the inlet ramp
contour and started with a baffle seal overlap of about 1 inch on the baffles
and 1 to 11/4 in. on the cowl. I used several sections of seal material in
the ramp area because of the rather sharp curves. I soon found that there was
too much overlap in the ramp area and started trimming the seals a little at
a time to just eliminate the excess that was curling over. My non-plenum arrangement
cools very well.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
>
Did you just follow the contour of the inlet ramp (trimming the aluminum to provide
a 3/8 gap like the inlet floors) and have the airseal flap sit against the
ramp? Also, how wide of a strip of airseal rubber did you use?
> How much over lap on the baffle? On the cowl? Thanks.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Lots of baffle questions tonight...
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dean: I did just as you described, trimmed the baffles to follow the inlet ramp
contour and started with a baffle seal overlap of about 1 inch on the baffles
and 1 to 11/4 in.on the cowl. I used several sections of seal material in the
ramp area because of the rather sharp curves.I soon found thatthere was too much
overlap in the ramp areaand started trimming the seals a little at a time
to just eliminate the excess that was curling over. My non-plenum arrangement
cools very well.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <DEAN.PSIROPOULOS@VERIZON.NET>
Did you just follow thecontour of the inlet ramp (trimming the aluminum to provide
a 3/8 gap like the inlet floors) and have the airseal flap sit against the
ramp? Also, how wide of a strip of airseal rubber did you use?
How much over lap on the baffle? On the cowl? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Lots of baffle questions tonight...
Message 15
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| Subject: | rare, self-serving commercial announcement |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Hit delete now if you don't want to know what I've listed on eBay...
AirMap 500 GPS, Cessna Turn Coordinator, ACS Magneto/starter keyswitch; & will
be adding some used but serviceable REM40E plugs soon, as well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4584867183&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
do not archive, and thanks for the one-time use of the bandwidth. We now return
you to your regular programming.
-Stormy
Message 16
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| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grip |
--> RV-List message posted by: jim & terri truitt <jimteri1@earthlink.net>
I thought I submitted a post on this before. If you are worried about hitting
the starter button when you have the starter on the stick - try what I did. Remove
the red trigger button (it comes off) and wire your starter to that switch.
The switch itself is recessed in the stick. The red trigger is just a cover
over the switch. You have to push your finger into the grip to push the switch.
Neither your finger or the fleshy part of your hand can engage the switch
without a deliberate action. 228 hours and no problem.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler types. |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
I use the Aero Classic 7 row cooler mounted on the rear baffle behind cylinder
#4 and it works better than OK. I have to install a full cover plate on the back
of the cooler when the ambient gets to 85 degrees or below in order to keep
my oil temp up in the 180 degrees range. I mounted mine as high as possible
after reinforcing the heck out of that area, as long as the cooler is not sticking
above the baffle at any point there is no way for the cowl to hit it. The
wimpy reinforcing suggested by Van's is barely a good starting point in my
opinion. I also made the cutout in the baffle the full size of the cooler with
no apparent effect on cooling since that cylinder is the coolest running.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
>
> My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This appears
> to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the welded
> aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for PA-28-180
> and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and
> fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it
> before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone
> have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW or
> POS?
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Finishing baffles
>
>
>
>
>
>
I use the Aero Classic 7 row cooler mounted on the rear baffle behind cylinder
#4 and it works better than OK. I have to install a full cover plate on the back
of the cooler when the ambient gets to 85 degrees or below in order to keep
my oil temp up in the180 degrees range.I mounted mine as high as possible after
reinforcing the heck outof that area, as long as the cooler is not sticking
above the baffle at any point there is no way for the cowl to hit it. The wimpy
reinforcing suggested by Van's is barely a good starting point in my opinion.
I also made the cutout in the baffle the full size of the cooler with no apparent
effect on cooling since that cylinder is the coolest running.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <DEAN.PSIROPOULOS@VERIZON.NET>
My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This appears
to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the welded
aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for PA-28-180
and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and
fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it
before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone
have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW or
POS?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Finishing baffles
==================
Message 18
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| Subject: | Starter not disengaging |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@comcast.net
Thanks everyone who offered comments and suggestions. I also called SkyTec this
morning and they told me that is normal to take a few seconds for the starter
to disengage. Only thing that really still bothers me is why I never noticed
it before.
Do not archive
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
Thanks everyone who offered comments and suggestions. I also called SkyTec this
morning and they told me that is normal to take a few seconds for the starter
to disengage. Only thing that really still bothers me is why I never noticed
it before.
Do not archive
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler types. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Mine's been working great so far. 130 Hrs of 180-185 degrees on my O-360
with vernatherm.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
DEAN PSIROPOULOS said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
> <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
> My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This
> appears
> to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the
> welded
> aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for
> PA-28-180
> and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and
> fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it
> before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone
> have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW
> or
> POS?
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Finishing baffles
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grip |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I used the green button as the starter button and just machined a counter
sunk ring to go over it. Have to stick your thumb in to the ring to
activate the starter and it works great.
At 03:28 PM 10/25/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: jim & terri truitt <jimteri1@earthlink.net>
>
>I thought I submitted a post on this before. If you are worried about
>hitting the starter button when you have the starter on the stick - try
>what I did. Remove the red trigger button (it comes off) and wire your
>starter to that switch. The switch itself is recessed in the stick. The
>red trigger is just a cover over the switch. You have to push your finger
>into the grip to push the switch. Neither your finger or the fleshy part
>of your hand can engage the switch without a deliberate action. 228 hours
>and no problem.
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 21
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| Subject: | electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by:
I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking
fundamentals.
Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have a
safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric?
_
/Bjorn.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Front baffles. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 25 Oct 2005, at 10:29, Karen and Robert Brown wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown"
> <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
>
> just as an FYI to the rest of the list, the glass plenum we put on
> the 8A took less than 8 hrs of work time to complete(excluding
> epoxy cure), including nut plates and AL angle fitting...(this
> assumes the AL baffle structure in place)
>
> do not archive
That's encouraging. What did you put on top of the engine to lay up
the fiberglass on? Do you have any pictures you can share?
I'm still trying to decide whether to use AL or FG for my plenum cover.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
It is one way or the other. The electric trim is not sensitive enough and
it is hard to get it just right IMO. YMMV.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: electric vs manual
> --> RV-List message posted by:
>
> I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking
> fundamentals.
>
> Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have
> a
> safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric?
> _
> /Bjorn.
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
This is only from memory so it may be flawed. Polyester resin is really
susceptible to heat damage. Vinylester is less susceptible than
polyester. Most epoxies are pretty resistant to heat, but will still
soften with heat. High temperature prepreg is still better, but must be
cured in an oven and gets stronger over time with added heat .... like
y'all out in the deserts. Darwin has a point .... you'll probably not
have heat related problems with a plenum, but when you shut down that
engine temp just bakes under the cowl. Hot air will rise up from under
the cowl, through cylinder fins, getting hotter, and up into the
plenum. That's where the damage could be done. Maybe facing the
airplane tail into the wind would force cooling air backwards through
the engine compartment and out the intakes. Who knows?
Linn
do not archive
Darwin N. Barrie wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
>Don't get too worked up over the temperature issues with epoxy. I have a friend
that makes parts for several of the NASCAR teams and he uses West Systems and
EZ Poxy. These are standard over the counter products. If they don't have temp
issues I don't think we will.
>
>Also a plenum has a constant source of air movement. The key is to make sure the
epoxy is mixed properly.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Darwin N. Barrie
>Chandler AZ
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> It is one way or the other. The electric trim is not sensitive enough and
> it is hard to get it just right IMO. YMMV.
I must be the only one out there who is happy with my electric trim. I'm
starting to think it's due to the way I wired it. I'm not using the
standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a coolie hat on my stick,
wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I believe the "delay"
inherent in using a relay allows me to make much smaller adjustments with
just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap, and I'm there.
Anyway, I'm tired of hearing people say that the "electric trim is too fast"
or this and that. Qualify that with the details of the system you're using,
so we can compare apples to apples.
Also, it would be interesting to see how much of this comes down to
coordination & quickness of your fingers -- i.e. "operator error." I don't
see what the fuss is all about with electric trim. Works for me!
In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I
straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising, literally) --
of course you're going to have some built-in sensitivity. An awareness of
this condition, combined with a system that is conducive to making small
adjustments, combined with a deft finger is going to yield success imho.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (651 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/2005 4:33:54 PM Central Standard Time,
dan@rvproject.com writes:
I must be the only one out there who is happy with my electric trim. I'm
starting to think it's due to the way I wired it. I'm not using the
standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a coolie hat on my stick,
wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I believe the "delay"
inherent in using a relay allows me to make much smaller adjustments with
just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap, and I'm there.
>>>
My experience exactly (except I do have the indicator), so that makes two of
us...
Mark Phillips RV-6A, 240ish hours
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I
>straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising, literally) --
>of course you're going to have some built-in sensitivity.
Dan...get a pitch autopilot! (Just kidding of course. Please don't
block your
winds program from me. I like it)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ron Lee
Message 28
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| Subject: | electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
I'm happy as a clam with the electric trim in my RV-9A. I have the older
style Ray Allen stick grip (4 separate buttons for trim) and I wired a micro
switch to my flap positioning arm. With flaps even slightly down I get full
voltage but with them up the voltage is reduced and so is trim speed. I'm
thinking about adding another voltage adjusting module because the aileron
seem much less sensitive than the elevators.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A N872RV 605 hrs.
Yuma, AZ
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>> LarryRobertHelming posted:
>> It is one way or the other. The electric trim is not sensitive enough
>> and
>> it is hard to get it just right IMO. YMMV.
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Anyway, I'm tired of hearing people say that the "electric trim is too
> fast"
> or this and that. Qualify that with the details of the system you're
> using,
> so we can compare apples to apples.
>
>
Dan, I am using the standard electric elevator trim system the way it was
presented in the install manuals. All standard Van's equipment. I have no
play/slop in the trim so I doubt if it's that.
>
> Also, it would be interesting to see how much of this comes down to
> coordination & quickness of your fingers -- i.e. "operator error." I
> don't
> see what the fuss is all about with electric trim. Works for me!
Granted, my coordination is 63 years old. I tap the rocker switch on my
panel with a one millisecond touch. It is just a bit to high and climbing.
Another tap in the other direction, it is descending. A bit longer tap in
the other direction followed by a short tap in the other. And the beat goes
on.
>
> In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I
> straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising, literally) --
> of course you're going to have some built-in sensitivity. An awareness of
> this condition, combined with a system that is conducive to making small
> adjustments, combined with a deft finger is going to yield success imho.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (651 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
I think an altitude hold system is in my future with the knees I have.
Thanks.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker (74 hours and still
grinning....) do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by:
>
>I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking
>fundamentals.
>
>Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have a
>safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric?
> _
>/Bjorn.
>
>
I am real happy with my electric trim. I am using a common old on-off-on
momentary bat handle toggle switch. No special circuits or anything
special....
Phil in Illinois............. Painting parts and pieces.....
>
>
Message 31
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
A builders dream collection. Highest quality MAC tools and box. Every tool
imaginable in a tool box 7' tall by 10' long, approx 2 ton. Shipping
available. Everything you could ever need for working on anything automotive
or aircraft related. Appraised at over $70,000 replacement value yours for
only $15,000. A friend retired after 40 years as a professional mechanic and
I am selling them. Contact me off list at john@fureychrysler.com for
details.
John Furey
2nd RV6A
F1 under construction
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Hi Dan,
I have put in the pitch trim circuit the "speed controller
module". Preset the speed for about half speed. I did this in my Europa
which has an all flying tail. It is very sensitive in pitch. So when I
did that, all smoothed out and I could trim it out to the nat's n... I'm
doing the same on my RV9-A.
BTW, the RV12 seems to be a metal copy of the Europa tri gear. I
hope it is as efficient. I loved it but it was a it small inside.
Jim Nelson
N599RV (reserved)
Still wiring- my web site http://websites.expercraft.com/jimn/
a great web site for a beginner in that mode
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Karen and Robert Brown wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@ashcreekwireless.com>
>
>Do you have more information on high temperature epoxy? I've researched this
for quite a while and I'm stumped. TAP Plastics up here in OR is the epoxy place
around here and they only say that a marine vinyl ester resin has slighty
more heat resistance than epoxy resin. According to the spec sheet, using ASTM
D-648, Vinyl Ester Resin has a Heat Distortion temp rating of 240F. The spec
sheet notes that this is a "clear casting" rating. TAP was "not aware" of
high temperature epoxy. This may make sense, especially IF THEY DON'T SELL IT.
From an empirical standpoint, all the glass plenums people have made here (about
6, including some with several hundred hours) are using epoxy resin, (both
those using carbon fiber and regular glass). I don't observe any softening
or other degradation on these plenums, so....unless other specific info shows
up on this topic, I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and use (West Systems) epoxy
resin to do the carbon fiber plenum...which should be!
> soon.
>
>Bob Brown
>RV7A - cowl fitted!
>
Find someone who has a set of Rutan VariEze plans. VE's had FG baffles
bolted to the heads before high temp resins existed.
(It amazed me too, the 1st time I saw them.)
Charlie
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
I debated about electric trim. I had heard the Allen
servo was too fast. Now they have a speed reducer to
make it more sensitive, less overdrive.
Dave
--- Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/25/2005 4:33:54 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> dan@rvproject.com writes:
> I must be the only one out there who is happy with
> my electric trim. I'm
> starting to think it's due to the way I wired it.
> I'm not using the
> standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a
> coolie hat on my stick,
> wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I
> believe the "delay"
> inherent in using a relay allows me to make much
> smaller adjustments with
> just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap,
> and I'm there.
> >>>
> My experience exactly (except I do have the
> indicator), so that makes two of
> us...
>
> Mark Phillips RV-6A, 240ish hours
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/2005 3:33:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dan@rvproject.com writes:
Anyway, I'm tired of hearing people say that the "electric trim is too fast"
or this and that. Qualify that with the details of the system you're using,
so we can compare apples to apples.
==============================
I agree. My electric trim on elevator and aileron works perfectly with the
Matronics governors set at half speed. I wouldn't change a thing.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
There are 4 or 5 builders here in Tucson who have had successful oil
cooler installations on the baffle behind cyl. #3 as Van's baffle kit
shows. They added an additional brace and beefed up the bracket which
the oil cooler mounts to and I am told by one of them that they have had
no problems. I carefully examined one of these installations as I am
working on my baffles now and carefully duplicating it.
The extra brace is a piece of 6061 3/4"x 3/4" angle about a foot long
that goes from a tapped hole on the left side of the engine which is at
the top of the case between cyls 1 and 3, to the inboard flange of
baffle part #5. That's the one that the oil cooler is mounted to.
Baffle 5 is not well constrained against motion in the forward-aft
direction and this brace fixes that. Part of the angle has to be cut
away to get around the push rod tube of cyl #3. I have a photo of the
brace, if any one is interested.
They also beefed up the bracket that the oil cooler mounts to. Van's
drawing shows a little "picture frame" sort of thing. The Tucson
version is nearly as large as the entire baffle #5 itself. It has a
flanges on all 4 sides to stiffen it. The outboard, top and bottom
flanges are made by bending the edge of the plate 90 deg. so that it
extends aft. The flange on the inboard side extends forward and wraps
around the flange of baffle 5 where it overlays the flange of baffle 6.
It's about an inch long.
All these planes use the SW 8406R cooler. It's expensive, but I think
it's worth it. It gets hot in Tucson.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine
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