Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:16 AM - Re: ALODINE 1132 TOUCH-N-PREP on wing Spars? (Darrell Reiley)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: ADIZ NPRM - TOP SECRET (Frank Stringham)
3. 08:00 AM - Re: first flight (bertrv6@highstream.net)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: electric vs manual trim (Wentz, Don)
5. 09:40 AM - Re: electric vs manual trim (James H Nelson)
6. 10:00 AM - Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures? (Brad Oliver)
7. 10:04 AM - FAA Medical (Tim Bryan)
8. 10:14 AM - Re: Varsol (SCOTT SPENCER)
9. 12:32 PM - Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures? (Smitty)
10. 02:18 PM - Question about torquing bolts (Dan Charrois)
11. 03:44 PM - Re: electric vs manual trim (Rick Galati)
12. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: electric vs manual trim (Ed Holyoke)
13. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: electric vs manual trim (Mickey Coggins)
14. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: electric vs manual trim (Jerry Springer)
15. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: electric vs manual trim (Wentz, Don)
16. 06:55 PM - Re: Question about torquing bolts (Dean Van Winkle)
17. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: electric vs manual trim (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ALODINE 1132 TOUCH-N-PREP on wing Spars? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
I purchased one from Stein. It seems to do the job and might be nice to have around
for touch up down the road. The pen does have a shelf life though... I can't
see it being totally useless on that date. If I had it to do over, I would
just prime the areas and move on. The pen is not cheap!
Primer will do the job just fine. Many builders do not want to mess up the look
of that pretty spar. Well IMHO your not going to see most of the spar your priming
ever again.
Darrell
do not archive
MLWynn@aol.com wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com
Has anyone used the alodine touch-n-prep for the countersunk holes on the
wing spar? According to Boeing:
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/environmental/TechNotes/TechNote
s2003-02.pdf
and the manufacturer:
http://www.loctiteaero.com/Images/Datasheet_PDF/hst_tnpalodine1132.pdf
This is a simple and clean way to provide corrosion protection. Seems like a
lot less trouble than spot priming 4 gzillion little countersunk holes.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV-8, Wings
San Ramon, California
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | ADIZ NPRM - TOP SECRET |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
Greetings Bob and all you great American Aviators
Can we say Rosa Parks.....yes in justice especially by the governement can
only be corrected with civil (doing what is actuallyl correct) disobedience.
FAA user fees, unfair medical decisions, and now airspace limitations is a
govprocess to either knowingly or not is to eliminate our freedom to fly
when we want, where we want, and how we want......................I am
troubled.
Frank @ SGU and SLC
>From: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: ADIZ NPRM - TOP SECRET
>Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:44:19 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>
>
> >Just got my Notice for Proposed Certificate Action for my ADIZ violation.
> >
> >What diobolical act did I do you might ask?
> >
> >I filed my ADIZ flight plan, and departed from an airport within the
>ADIZ,
> >but didn't ask for my squaw until airborne. (The tower closed as I called
> >for taxi).
>
>The ADIZ was created as a tool to actually defend our borders, but now it
>is used to control our citizens. Too bad the Federal Government will not
>enforce strict compliance (ground and air) with our boarders as they do
>with the Washington ADIZ. I wonder if an undocumented alien violated the
>ADIZ airspace around Washington DC, if he would receive a violation!
>
> It is my opinion that the decision has already been made about a
>permanent ADIZ, the only question the Federal Government had about the
>temporary ADIZ was the size they were going to make for the permanent ADIZ.
>
>I am not a fan of civil disobedience, but in our country, whether it was
>women's rights or civil rights, civil disobedience led to the solution. I
>fear that someone will have to go to jail before this ADIZ is eliminated.
>
>We will sacrifice our youth so that some foreign country may gain their
>freedom, but we will do little or nothing when our own freedoms are taken
>away by our elected leaders. I have felt ever since the 9/11 disaster that
>the ultimate goal of our Federal Government was to use the 9/11 event as
>justification to attack and reduce the personal freedoms of our citizens.
>
>Osama Bin Laden must be having a field day with this ADIZ. Our Federal
>Government has done more to damage to our personal freedoms than his band
>of merry men could achieve in a 1000 years!
>
>Unfortunately even in the USA ; Freedom is not free, sometimes we must
>give up life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to pay for that Freedom
>that many of us have come to take for granted.
>
>If you have not commented on the ADIZ, please do so.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE. This email will self destruct in 5 seconds, if not, please
>delete before the Department of Homeland Security, FBI, ATF, FEMA, CIA,
>DIA, FAA, NTSB, Coast Guard, the Contra-Costa Dog Pound or some
>Presidential Advisor leaks this to the press.
>
>Bob
>RV6 NightFighter
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
>
> I have been on this list for about year and a half while building our RV
> 7A, There is so much information on this forum It gave me bits of
> information that helped, when I would have a problem or question during
> the build process Thanks to all of you!!!!!
>
> I wish to announce the first flight of N112B took place on October 17th
> at Leesburg Fl. (LEE) The plane has the Superior XP-IO-360 engine and a
> Hartzel C/S prop. We landed after 45 minutes, and no squawks.
>
> Jim Brown
>
> Jim: Congratulations''' I know the feeling,,, I had mine a few monts ago.
I am in Orlando, really at Sanford Airport.. If you come this way stop by
we have a few RV'S flying here...
Bert
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz@intel.com>
If the RV-6 is loaded for a trip (ie Oshkosh) I find it very pitch
sensitive and do use 'positioning of limbs' to fine-tune the pitch trim.
However, with light loads and solo, it is much less aft CG and far more
stable in pitch (as it should be). If you're having pitch sensitivity
issues solo, you may want to revisit your W&B...
I have electric pitch trim, and it is far too sensitive. I've even
increased the length of the lever on the trim tab to slow it down, still
too sensitive. Quick taps and flicks of the hat will eventually get the
trim desired, but it's an effort.
I use the coolie hat setup with the 'mixer' for elevator and aileron
trim, but I'm wondering if I can add the Matronics speed control or
something to slow it more.
Or, a decent Altitude Hold would solve the 'in cruise' issue, and have
other benefits. In cruise is where it is most annoying anyway.
Dw
RV-6 912hrs
Do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mts.net>
> In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I
> straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising,
> literally) -- of course you're going to have some built-in
sensitivity.
Cool, I've never tried that. But in calm air it's easy to make turns and
level out again by leaning left and right.
Curt
RV-6 C-GACR
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Hi Don,
putting in the speed control for the pitch is the way to go.
Jim
Message 6
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| Subject: | Empennage Tips - Pictures? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
Smitty,
I don't think yours was the album I remember, but it will do! Thanks
for posting the link.
Brad
Do Not Archive
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
> From: "Smitty" <smitty@smittysrv.com>
> Date: Thu, October 27, 2005 1:56 pm
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" <smitty@smittysrv.com>
>
> I have a few pics that were sent to me by another builder who went to Sun
> n' Fun 2005.
>
> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=146
>
> Smitty
> http://SmittysRV.com
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
> >
> > I would love to see this also. Please include to the list.
> >
> > Airplane is moved to the airport, so the tips can go on now. Couldn't get
> > it out my garage door with them on.
> > Tim
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: Brad Oliver
> > Date: 10/27/05 12:58:31
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
> >
> > I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when
> > I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and
> > smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to
> > rivet and be done with it.
> >
> > Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same
> > debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took
> > at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets,
> > glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites,
> > but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the
> > archives.
> >
> > I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am
> > just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am
> > referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks!
> >
> > Brad Oliver
> > RV-7
> > Livermore, CA
> > www.rv7factory.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
Just an FYI
Shortly after discussing this on the thread with others, I called the EAA
aeromedical department to ask for help with the status of my medical. I
received my medical in the mail about 5 days after they inquired.
Coincidence? maybe. Took about 6 weeks total from the time I mailed the
info they requested.
Do Not Archive
Tim
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic@sbcglobal.net>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
>Varsol, Stanasol, Stoddard solvent, mineral spirits, Naptha, all the same
>thing. Any auto parts store, Paint store, or Lube oil distributor
>
>Doug Rozendaal
>Lube Oil Distributor
>
Naptha is not the same as the others. Naptha is also known as 'white-gas' or basically
Coleman fuel. All the others are Mineral Spirits derived.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Empennage Tips - Pictures? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" <smitty@smittysrv.com>
My pleasure, Brad.
While we're on the subject, I've seen other builders put reinforcing metal
strips inside the fiberglass tips where the pop-rivets go. Is that really
necessary? There isn't any mention of doing that in Van's instructions.
Smitty
http://SmittysRV.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
>
> Smitty,
>
> I don't think yours was the album I remember, but it will do! Thanks
> for posting the link.
>
> Brad
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
>> From: "Smitty" <smitty@smittysrv.com>
>> Date: Thu, October 27, 2005 1:56 pm
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" <smitty@smittysrv.com>
>>
>> I have a few pics that were sent to me by another builder who went to
>> Sun
>> n' Fun 2005.
>>
>> http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=146
>>
>> Smitty
>> http://SmittysRV.com
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan"
>> <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
>> >
>> > I would love to see this also. Please include to the list.
>> >
>> > Airplane is moved to the airport, so the tips can go on now. Couldn't
>> get
>> > it out my garage door with them on.
>> > Tim
>> >
>> > -------Original Message-------
>> >
>> > From: Brad Oliver
>> > Date: 10/27/05 12:58:31
>> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
>> >
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver <brad@rv7factory.com>
>> >
>> > I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips
>> (when
>> > I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and
>> > smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to
>> > rivet and be done with it.
>> >
>> > Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the
>> same
>> > debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they
>> took
>> > at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g.
>> rivets,
>> > glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites,
>> > but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the
>> > archives.
>> >
>> > I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am
>> > just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am
>> > referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me?
>> Thanks!
>> >
>> > Brad Oliver
>> > RV-7
>> > Livermore, CA
>> > www.rv7factory.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Question about torquing bolts |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly.
I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be
the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction
between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop
nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely
not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon
insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant.
My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque
set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the
torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the
relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction
with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal
scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated
torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of
a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be
simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there
already consider this to be reasonable.
If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque
of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations,
in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting
26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert.
Does this sound reasonable?
Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what
I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that
I'm not under-torquing..
Thanks for your advice!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
I could never understand those enlightened naysayers who purport electric trim
is either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. Oh really? By what measure pray
tell? Well, count me among those fans who pronounce electric trim as "just
right" and give it a thumbs up....way up. Sensitivity is easily adjusted with
a pot screw on the MK-111 speed controller, but I suspect many builders have
omitted its installation then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive.
At cruise speed or in the pattern, my electric trim installation delivers positive
predictable response while obeying minuscule thumb commands on the Coolie
hat. I've flown both manual and electric systems on various RV's and unquestionably,
both DO work as advertised. But given the choice, I take minor issue
with Van's manual trim system because of the following. #1. Unlike the manual
trim wheel in my little old C-150, the manual trim that comes standard with
RV's doesn't even have a deflection indicator. As
a
special bonus for manual trim enthusiasts, they get to adjust the trim wheel as
part of preflight to insure a correct takeoff trim tab setting.....and THEN
follow up by visually sighting the tab to be sure it is set where they think it
is set. When I turn the master switch on, all I have to do is glance at the
LED indicators on the instrument panel and "tweak the Coolie" to adjust for appropriate
takeoff trim prior to flight. I can see at a glance what the deflection
is. #2. As for manual trim, who can reasonably deny the substantial weight
penalty of all that steel cable connected to the trim tab and snaking its way
through the length of the fuselage to finally terminate at a trim wheel assembly
occupying precious cockpit space? To those who subscribe to the old bromide
that electric trim has too many points of failure, I maintain the worst
runaway trim setting in an RV can be overridden by any competent pilot with
a modicum of physical strength. The fact is, like sl
iders or
tip-ups, nosedraggers or taildraggers, chocolate or vanilla, the choice has always
been.... an individual one. But to stubbornly allege electric trim is too
sensitive or not sensitive enough suggests to me anecdotal evidence of an RV
with built-in rigging problems, W&B issues or installation errors. I do believe
the manual system is less prone to suffer from builder induced errors but installed
correctly, BOTH systems work as advertised.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 90 hours
RV-8A empennage complete....electric trim, of course
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Just to put in one more word - we've got the manual trim on our 6-a and
it always seems to hunt a little. If it wants to climb, a little down
trim doesn't do much but a little more makes it want to descend. It's
hard to get it trimmed just right.
Back at the trim tab there's a little slop, probably from the 180 degree
bend the cable makes at the center console. I added a spring over the
cable end between the horn and the cable's outer cover which improved
the situation measurably. I also found some slop in the hole in the trim
tab horn which I dealt with using a little nylon bushing.
I'm using the Gretz short cable and servo on the rear deck in my 6
project. If anybody wants a Van's trim cable I'll sell it for half price
and whatever it costs to ship it to you.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> ... Sensitivity is easily adjusted with a pot screw on the
> MK-111 speed controller, but I suspect many builders have omitted its
> installation then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive. ...
What is the MK-111 speed controller, and where do I get one?
I googled it, and came up with this - is this the correct part?
http://www.mbelectronics.com/view.aspx?id=117
http://www.mbelectronics.com/images%5Citems%5Cmk111.jpg
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
>
>>... Sensitivity is easily adjusted with a pot screw on the
>>MK-111 speed controller, but I suspect many builders have omitted its
>>installation then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive. ...
>>
>>
>
>What is the MK-111 speed controller, and where do I get one?
>I googled it, and came up with this - is this the correct part?
>
> http://www.mbelectronics.com/view.aspx?id=117
>
> http://www.mbelectronics.com/images%5Citems%5Cmk111.jpg
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
>
>
Try here :-)
http://www.matronics.com/
Jerry
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz@intel.com>
OK Rick,
How about "many RV pilots find the electric trim (as supplied without an
add-on speed controller) too sensitive in pitch."
Just sos we can compare apples to apples ;-)
OK, I'll contact my buddy Matt for a Mk-III speed controller and quit
complaining.
Dw
Do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
I could never understand those enlightened naysayers who purport
electric trim is either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. Oh
really? By what measure pray tell? Well, count me among those fans who
pronounce electric trim as "just right" and give it a thumbs up....way
up. Sensitivity is easily adjusted with a pot screw on the MK-111 speed
controller, but I suspect many builders have omitted its installation
then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Question about torquing bolts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Dan
You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
>
> Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly.
>
> I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be
> the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction
> between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop
> nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely
> not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon
> insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant.
>
> My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque
> set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the
> torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the
> relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction
> with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal
> scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated
> torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of
> a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be
> simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there
> already consider this to be reasonable.
>
> If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque
> of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations,
> in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting
> 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert.
> Does this sound reasonable?
>
> Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what
> I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that
> I'm not under-torquing..
>
> Thanks for your advice!
>
> Dan
> --
> Syzygy Research & Technology
> Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: electric vs manual trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Try here :-)
> http://www.matronics.com/
>
Google let me down, but the list comes through. Thanks!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
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