---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/31/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:24 AM - Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines (Rhonda Bewley) 2. 09:05 AM - Re: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. (Dave Saylor) 3. 10:46 AM - Installing the outboard bottom skin. (Mike Draper) 4. 12:19 PM - Did the first kit owner request his Repairmans Cert? (Marty Helller) 5. 02:10 PM - Re: Installing the outboard bottom skin. (Glaeser, Dennis A) 6. 03:00 PM - Re: RVers in Germany? (Ralph E. Capen) 7. 06:32 PM - Re: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines (Chuck) 8. 06:49 PM - RV-7A in the daytona area (Gordon Arbeitman) 9. 07:04 PM - Re: RV-7A in the daytona area (linn walters) 10. 08:37 PM - Re: RV-7A in the daytona area (Ron Lee) 11. 10:13 PM - Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures? (Bradley Oliver) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:47 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines From: "Rhonda Bewley" INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 --> RV-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley" Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective 11/01/05. O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:44 AM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" Greg, you're right, the 51% rule is not the driver for the repairman's certificate. In my experience, the FAA uses the knowledge possessed by the builder to judge his ability to act as the repairman. Building 51% is usually a slam dunk in the knowledge department, no questions asked. That's why I suggested that if Darin builds 51%, he should be assured of getting the repairman's certificate. I said he had to build 51% in order to get it, which is not quite right, as you pointed out. Dave Saylor -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" No, don't confuse the requirements for the Repairman Certificate with the requirements for the Airworthiness Certificate. The 51% rule applies only to the Airworthiness Certificate and is a requirement to certify the airplane in the Experimental category. It doesn't require that any one person does the 51% - only that 51% be "amateur" built. If the aircraft doesn't meet the 51% rule it would have to get certified (or not at all) under one of the other Experimental categories such as Exhibition, R&D, Market Survey, Crew Training, etc. which all have more onerous operating limitations. The Repairman Certificate requires convincing the FSDO inspector (last I heard DAR's could not issue it) that you participated in the building of the airccraft "enough" to maintain it. One member of a group build can get it so there obviously is no special amount of participation required. Locally, it seems the inspector wants to see enough logs and pictures so he can BS for half a day and not do other work. YMMV Regards, Greg Young RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" > > Darin, > > You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you > build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit > yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% > status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key > is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your > "major portion" of the construction. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 831-722-9141 > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:49 AM PST US From: Mike Draper Subject: RV-List: Installing the outboard bottom skin. --> RV-List message posted by: Mike Draper Listers: Looking for some suggestions/clarifications on the best way to install the outboard bottom skins on my RV-8 QB project. The manual states... ...."Once the inboard skin is riveted, the outboard is installed the same way, beginning on the inboard rib and working toward the tip. Leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins only (no rib) until last." I get the point of working the rivets in an L pattern and starting on the inboard and working towards the tip. However, how does one leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins until last? Can you really save that till last if you start on the inboard side and work towards the tip of the wing? I am not planning on using pop rivets on this skin. Or do they really mean to start on the outboard side of the wing and move inboard? Also, would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how this could be accomplished solo. Thanks in advance. -Mike Draper RV-8 QB (finish) N468RV ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:36 PM PST US From: "Marty Helller" Subject: RV-List: Did the first kit owner request his Repairmans Cert? --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty Helller" One question to ask when buying a pre-owned kit is if the partially built aircraft was registered. If so, the previous builder might have applied for his repairman certificate (even though it wasn't an aircraft yet). If the previous owner had put in for a repairman's certificate, then he will have to get a notorized form to remove his name from the aircraft serial number, before they allow you to register as the certified builder to get your repairman's certificate (even if the tail number had changed). It may not be an issue for you, but it was for me..... and this will save you some registration hassles. The former owner was real helpful in getting this cleared up, despite having to get stuff notarized, twice. Do Not Archieve Marty Heller RV-7 (Almost ready to tip the canoe) >From: "Dave Saylor" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. >Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:03:32 -0800 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" > >Greg, you're right, the 51% rule is not the driver for the repairman's >certificate. In my experience, the FAA uses the knowledge possessed by the >builder to judge his ability to act as the repairman. Building 51% is >usually a slam dunk in the knowledge department, no questions asked. >That's >why I suggested that if Darin builds 51%, he should be assured of getting >the repairman's certificate. I said he had to build 51% in order to get >it, >which is not quite right, as you pointed out. > >Dave Saylor > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > >No, don't confuse the requirements for the Repairman Certificate with >the requirements for the Airworthiness Certificate. The 51% rule applies >only to the Airworthiness Certificate and is a requirement to certify >the airplane in the Experimental category. It doesn't >require that any one person does the 51% - only that 51% be "amateur" >built. If the aircraft doesn't meet the 51% rule it would have to get >certified (or not at all) under one of the other Experimental categories >such as Exhibition, R&D, Market Survey, Crew Training, etc. which all >have more onerous operating limitations. > >The Repairman Certificate requires convincing the FSDO inspector (last I >heard DAR's could not issue it) that you participated in the building of >the airccraft "enough" to maintain it. One member of a group build can >get it so there obviously is no special amount of participation >required. Locally, it seems the inspector wants to see enough logs and >pictures so he can BS for half a day and not do other work. YMMV > >Regards, >Greg Young >RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix >Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" > > > > Darin, > > > > You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you > > build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit > > yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% > > status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key > > is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your > > "major portion" of the construction. > > > > Dave Saylor > > AirCrafters LLC > > 831-722-9141 > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:58 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Installing the outboard bottom skin. From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" -------------------- I get the point of working the rivets in an L pattern and starting on the inboard and working towards the tip. However, how does one leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins until last? Can you really save that till last if you start on the inboard side and work towards the tip of the wing? I am not planning on using pop rivets on this skin. Or do they really mean to start on the outboard side of the wing and move inboard? Also, would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how this could be accomplished solo. Thanks in advance. -Mike Draper -------------------- Mike, I riveted my first wing lower skin solo, and will be doing the second one hopefully this weekend. Near the trailing edge, you have to do the rivets in the overlap area the same way you do the rest. I did all the rivets (including the overlap) that required the skin to be held back for access at the same time. Once I determined that I had sufficient/easy access through the access panels and lightening holes (more than halfway up), I left those until later. I did mine mostly with the wing on the ground (on a piece of carpet) and layed across the LE to reach in with the bucking bar. I used a towel around the free edge to keep me from decapitating myself. The toughest part for me was the trailing edge between the inboard (closely spaced) ribs, because my fat arms don't fit between the ribs! I had helped my son do his lower wing skins last year, and we had more difficulty doing it with 2 of us! He had his wing on a table, and I think that is a lot tougher than doing it on the ground. One item of interest. As I was doing the skin, I layed it down on the frame once in a while to see how it fit. Early on, it looked like I was going to have a big gap between the LE skins and the bottom skin, and I was concerned. However as I continued it lined up better and better. I think working from TE to LE helps here. The gap on my first wing is just fine - less than 1/32". Good luck! Dennis Glaeser 7A Wings (plan to finish the second tank tonight - once the trick-or-treaters are gone) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:26 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: RVers in Germany? --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" check out www.rv-4.de Don't know where he's located - but I have been working with him. ----- Original Message ----- From: "randall" Subject: RV-List: RVers in Germany? > --> RV-List message posted by: "randall" > > (Apologies -- sending again cause I botched the subject line on the first > one....) > >> Anyone living in southern Germany interested in a visit from a fellow > RVer? >> My wife and I are heading over on Tuesday Nov. 1. Email offline, >> rv6n6r@comcast.net. >> >> Randall Henderson >> RV6 ~700 hrs >> Portland, OR > > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:30 PM PST US From: Chuck Subject: Re: RV-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck Hi Rhonda, What's the price on your O-320 D2A including s&h to 93210 (Coalinga, Cal.) ? Thanks, Chuck Rhonda Bewley wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley" Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective 11/01/05. O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:05 PM PST US From: Gordon Arbeitman Subject: RV-List: RV-7A in the daytona area --> RV-List message posted by: Gordon Arbeitman Hi; I'm looking for an RV-7 owner in the Daytona Beach area who might be willing to give me a ride (in exchange for lunch ?). I'm currently flying a Grumman Tiger and have started thinking about moving away from the "certified" world. I'd also appreciate thoughts from anyone who has experience with both airplanes. Thanks. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:26 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7A in the daytona area --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Hi Gordon! I'm curious why you'd go from a 4-place to a 2 place. I'm going in the other direction ..... giving up my AA-1B for an RV-10. And allmost all of my flying is solo! But I want a good 4 seater to travel in, and the -10 has some pretty impressive numbers. Compare the numbers with the Tiger and see where the interest goes!!! Linn .... still putting up the workshop. do not archive Gordon Arbeitman wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Gordon Arbeitman > >Hi; > > I'm looking for an RV-7 owner in the Daytona Beach area who might be >willing to give me a ride (in exchange for lunch ?). I'm currently flying >a Grumman Tiger and have started thinking about moving away from the >"certified" world. > > I'd also appreciate thoughts from anyone who has experience with both >airplanes. Thanks. > > > > -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:09 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7A in the daytona area --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >Hi Gordon! >I'm curious why you'd go from a 4-place to a 2 place. I'm going in the >other direction ..... giving up my AA-1B for an RV-10. Seems that he has seen the light of an RV. That should be good enough. No doubt an RV-10 is great for many people but I will stay with my -6A. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:05 PM PST US From: "Bradley Oliver" Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? --> RV-List message posted by: "Bradley Oliver" Just a follow-up to my prior post... In response to my post, Darwin Barrie was kind enough to email me some pictures of his empennage fiberglass work (which looks amazing). He asked me to share them with the group, and since several of you emailed me saying you were also interested in pictures, I posted them online. Darwin's work can be seen here... http://www.rv7factory.com/darwin.html Cheers, Brad -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Oliver Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Oliver I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to rivet and be done with it. Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the archives. I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Brad Oliver RV-7 Livermore, CA www.rv7factory.com