Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? (Tim Olson)
2. 07:15 AM - Re: Fuel System discussion (Jordan Grant)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Interior and paint scheme pictures (Jeff Dowling)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: Wing installation (Bob Collins)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Wing installation (Fly n Low)
6. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Wing installation (Terry Watson)
7. 10:21 AM - overhauling mags (Jim)
8. 12:42 PM - Re: overhauling mags (linn walters)
9. 02:31 PM - Re: Interior and paint scheme pictures (Ron Lee)
10. 08:36 PM - TruTrak ADI (Larry Pardue)
11. 10:05 PM - Re: TruTrak ADI (Ed Holyoke)
12. 10:10 PM - Crossover exhaust. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I had replied earlier to the original poster off-line, but had one
following tip. If all else fails, use Macks Earplugs....available
online or at walmart. They form really well.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Brad Gould wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Brad Gould <brad20j@yahoo.com>
>
>
> >> 1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for that
matter)?.
> My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
>
> I've taken my daughter flying since she was around two months old. It was
in the back of a Mooney though.
>
> We tried several things for ear protections before going up. The best solution
was to cut a pair of ear plugs to fit comfortably in her small ears, and
to put a light weight hat on her head with ties so she wouldn't take it off.
She was fine with it after a few minutes.
>
> Keep changes in altitude really mild. We had her drinking during any climbs
or descents, so her ears would keep equalizing.
>
> She's four now, and loves planes. She wants to help me build one!
>
>
> >> We are having a baby in 5 weeks
> Congrats!!!!!! They're a lot of fun!
>
>
> >> and am concerned about whether the -7 is now going
> to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
> year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just cut my losses
and
> sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
>
> Can you just rent for traveling with the family?
>
> Brad Gould
> Waiting to sell my plane so I can start on an -8.
> Do not archive
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel System discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jordan Grant <gra9933@bellsouth.net>
>Thanks for the response and photos. Good info on both the gascolator and valve.
>
>
You betcha.
>Is your AFPinstall004 photo a later view of the same place as mount 1, 2, 3, and
4
>are? I can't tell for sure but if it is, I can see how your flow transducer is
>attached.
>
>
>
I should have been more specific on those photos. The AFPinstall004 is
my actual installation, while the other 4 photos are from somebody
else's installation - I don't really remember for sure who it was. I
think it may have been Dan Checkoway. I used those to help me with mine.
Like I said, my flow transducer is wedged in there but I think there are
probably better solutions out there.
>I was thinking about my valve being installed as yours is - with the addition
>of fuel guages on either side of the valve (valve points to the pertinent guage).
>
>
>
I think your VM1000 has fuel quantity functions, doesn't it? I guess you
just want some redundancy?
>I already have some wiring going through the spar penetration provided for in
the
>kit so I may need to place my pump differently.
>
>
>
I'm not sure what you mean here. I put a bunch of wiring through the
spar penetration, too. You just have to snake it around the fuel tubes
in there - no big deal.
>>From what I can see from your photos, your system is plumbed:
>
>Tank(s) to valve
>Valve to boost pump
>Boost pump to filter
>Filter to flow transducer
>Flow transducer to firewall
>
>>From the firewall, I know that the pressure transducer, mechanical pump, and
>injection system still need connections - any info on the forward side would be
>appreciated. Where does your fuel line(s), Purge cable, throttle cable, mixture
>cable, and prop cable go through the firewall.
>
>
>
That's correct. After that:
Firewall to Mech fuel pump
Mech fuel pump to throttle body
Throttle body to distribution "spider"
"Spider" to cylinders
Purge Line:
In my picture of the engine installation, you can see the fuel purge
line coming off of the valve, going through a grommet in the baffles,
and connecting to a bulkhead fitting on the upper/right firewall. From
there, the fuel is routed via 1/4" aluminum tubing down the side of the
aircraft, right next to the right side fuel vent line. I added another
bulkhead fitting next to the fuel vent line fitting in the forward wing
root area. From there, a short length of tubing connects that fitting to
the fuel tank fitting. The fuel tank just has a simple bulkhead fitting
with a short length of tubing inside it that dumps the purge fuel in the
second bay of the fuel tank. I wanted the return fuel in the second bay
so that the hot fuel doesn't just get immediately pumped out again when
doing the purge operation.
Purge Cable:
You can see that in the picture as well. After going through the
baffles, it just goes right through the firewall in a convenient place -
it mostly depends on where you want to mount the purge handle on your
instrument panel engine control panel.Note the small angle that is
bolted to the upper engine. I just used an Adel clamp around the purge
cable and bolted to that small angle to secure it.
Throttle Cable/Mixture Cable:
I'm going to send a couple of separate E-mails with pictures of stuff.
The mixture cable is probably the trickiest. I'm told its a real pain
for nose-draggers. I had to use the 'one-hole' firewall penetration
fitting from aircraft spruce because I needed the cable to penetrate the
firewall at an angle.
>Additionally, it looks like your purge valve is mounted standing up - mine is
>mounted laying down. The stand-up version allows for a nicer mounting of cable.
>Guess I need to contact AFP about getting the other version. I'm also using a
Sam
>James cowl and plenum so the stand-up purge valve is even more important for that
>reason.
>
>Looks like you have a system with a lot of similarities to mine - so I may come
back
>with some more ?????
>
ts kind of hard to explain these things in E-mail sometimes, so if some
of that doesn't make sense, send me your question.
Jordan Grant
Painting/Assembling
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Interior and paint scheme pictures |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Wow, your sure putting in the time. Im sure it will come out nice.
I still havent painted my 6a and have been thinking about schemes for 3
years while photographing hundreds of them. I finally figured out what made
one scheme catch my eye while the other didnt, even though they were very
similar. I was speaking with the owner of a 6a at OshKosh last summer and
was complimenting him on his paint job. Its a very common 2 tone, white
top, red bottom with a couple of stripes separating them mid way through the
fuse. He mentioned the trick is to blend the significant color changes with
an intermediate color(s). In his case, he had the following: red top,
1/2"black stripe,1/2"grey stripe, then white. I have pictures if you would
like. The revealing thing to me is that the plane next to him is red and
white with a large gray stripe and doesnt look nearly as good imo. He had a
lot of lookers for a simple paint job.
Either way, its your baby and you have to paint it the way you like.
If you're looking for opinions, I like the fuse striping with no blue and
white colors together. One of your last photos shows just red and blue
which I think looks good.
Good luck.
Shemp
Hoping to paint one day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Interior and paint scheme pictures
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema@comcast.net>
>
> I've made up a real simple web site that has pictures of my
> Flightline Interior installed
> as well as some pictures of a model I made to try out some
> different paint schemes.
>
> Check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/
>
> Doug Medema
> RV-6A N276DM (needs a condition inspection this month -- 2
> years already!)
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Wing installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
You know those carts they have at Home Depot for carring drywall and stuff
horizontally? It's basically the same thing. The problem I have with "help"
is I can get it in short bursts (I do most of my work either late in the
evening or just after everyone goes to work in the morning). So this will
provide a real safety net for the wing in case (a) somebody drops an end or
(b) it has to -- for reasons of resources -- it has to sit for a bit until
the next helper(s) can be found. It will also give me a place to put the
wing when I bring it up from the cradle (currently in the family room) so I
don't have to put it on the snow outside. And it automatically would provide
support once one wing is in place before attaching the next one. I plan to
adjust the height so it's consistent with the dihedral and applies a good,
solid support along the main spar. It only take about 20 minutes to build,
will provide a nice level of safety, save time, and when I'm done I can just
take it apart and burn it or reuse the pieces and I don't have a dilapidated
office chair to pay to get rid of (g)
-----Original Message-----
From: llsbiii3@netzero.com [mailto:llsbiii3@netzero.com]
Subject: Wing installation
Please post pictures of what you come up with. I also have experience doing
things when people don't show up. I was thinking about a table with
adjustable straps holding the wing.
Sherman Butler
RV-7 Empennage
<<<From: "Bob Collins" <
<http://webmaila.netzero.net/webmail/8?folderInbox&msgNum00000ck0&block1&
msgNatureall&msgStatusall&count1132413197#> bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: wing installation
Yep, that's the plan, Bert. But basically what I'm doing here is setting up
some holders at several points along the spar to place the wings on prior to
insertion. It's a modified "office chair" setup. It's just that people
have
read into the request a lot more than the request for a height above the
fuse belly. They needn't have. It was just a request for a dimension. But
people are willing to help and offer advice and I appreciate it nonetheless.
>>
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Wing installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fly n Low" <flynlow@usaviator.net>
I have never installed wings on an RV! Having said that I have installed
wings on several other aircraft by myself! (alone, solo, etc), including a
couple of biplanes. They have their own unique set of problems with flying
wires etc. The best method I have found across the board is a single 2X4
with screw in hooks in both ends and a couple of hooks in the ceiling.
Simply use a motorcycle tie down at each end of the 2X4 and attach them to
the hooks in the ceiling. Lay the wing on the 2X4 about 3/4 of the way out
toward the tip. The tie downs can be adjusted up and down independently as
necessary. If you place a small piece of carpet on the 2X4 where it contacts
the wing that protects the wing also. I have tried the chair and tried saw
horses. The motorcycle straps work best for me, but to each their own.
Bud Silvers
RV-8 finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Subject: RV-List: RE: Wing installation
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
You know those carts they have at Home Depot for carring drywall and stuff
horizontally? It's basically the same thing. The problem I have with "help"
is I can get it in short bursts (I do most of my work either late in the
evening or just after everyone goes to work in the morning). So this will
provide a real safety net for the wing in case (a) somebody drops an end or
(b) it has to -- for reasons of resources -- it has to sit for a bit until
the next helper(s) can be found. It will also give me a place to put the
wing when I bring it up from the cradle (currently in the family room) so I
don't have to put it on the snow outside. And it automatically would provide
support once one wing is in place before attaching the next one. I plan to
adjust the height so it's consistent with the dihedral and applies a good,
solid support along the main spar. It only take about 20 minutes to build,
will provide a nice level of safety, save time, and when I'm done I can just
take it apart and burn it or reuse the pieces and I don't have a dilapidated
office chair to pay to get rid of (g)
-----Original Message-----
From: llsbiii3@netzero.com [mailto:llsbiii3@netzero.com]
Subject: Wing installation
Please post pictures of what you come up with. I also have experience doing
things when people don't show up. I was thinking about a table with
adjustable straps holding the wing.
Sherman Butler
RV-7 Empennage
<<<From: "Bob Collins" <
<http://webmaila.netzero.net/webmail/8?folderInbox&msgNum00000ck0&block1&
msgNatureall&msgStatusall&count1132413197#> bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: wing installation
Yep, that's the plan, Bert. But basically what I'm doing here is setting up
some holders at several points along the spar to place the wings on prior to
insertion. It's a modified "office chair" setup. It's just that people
have
read into the request a lot more than the request for a height above the
fuse belly. They needn't have. It was just a request for a dimension. But
people are willing to help and offer advice and I appreciate it nonetheless.
>>
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Wing installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Bob,
I have found lots of uses for the moving dollies that harbor freight often
has on sale for about $16. It is a simple platform of maybe 1" thick by 5"
wide boards (Asian standard sizes, maybe?) with carpet wrapped around the
upper boards, and big casters under each corner. The overall size is
something like 16" x 22". You might strap an adjustable plastic sawhorse to
one or two of these. I bought the first ones just to get the casters for my
wing storage stand. They were less expensive that way than without the wood
frame.
Terry
RV-8A finishing?
Seattle
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
You know those carts they have at Home Depot for carring drywall and stuff
horizontally? It's basically the same thing. The problem I have with "help"
is I can get it in short bursts (I do most of my work either late in the
evening or just after everyone goes to work in the morning). So this will
provide a real safety net for the wing in case (a) somebody drops an end or
(b) it has to -- for reasons of resources -- it has to sit for a bit until
the next helper(s) can be found. It will also give me a place to put the
wing when I bring it up from the cradle (currently in the family room) so I
don't have to put it on the snow outside. And it automatically would provide
support once one wing is in place before attaching the next one. I plan to
adjust the height so it's consistent with the dihedral and applies a good,
solid support along the main spar. It only take about 20 minutes to build,
will provide a nice level of safety, save time, and when I'm done I can just
take it apart and burn it or reuse the pieces and I don't have a dilapidated
office chair to pay to get rid of (g)
Message 7
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|
"RV3 list" <RV3-List@matronics.com>, "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | overhauling mags |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim" <n144hr@earthlink.net>
Hi gang -
Well it looks like a reasonably priced overhaul or rebuild of your mags has gone
down the tubes. You can thank your FAA for that. In order to rebuild and certify
aircraft parts the requirements for a shop are intolerable. My cousin
would do the best job you could pay for but he would have to completely change
his shop setup. The OH shop would have to be contained in it's own separate
environment and all parts would have to have cetification and be kept separate
from any non-certified parts and hardware - this includes screws, washers, etc.
I agree with him that this is too much trouble to go to for a part time activity.
Given the necessary changes, etc. it wouldn't pencil out for the consumer.
He would have to charge the same as any shop. We haven't even addressed
the insurance requirements. Sorry to get your hopes up. On the other hand,
if the owner didn't care about an 8313 or whatever it is, it might be a different
story.
jim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: overhauling mags |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
This is exactly why you request a 'repair' rather than an overhaul. The
manufacturer has a list of items that need to be replaced to meet the
'overhauled' criteria. There is no list for 'repairs' and the shop
doing the work has a lot of leeway in what they can do. This is
especially important when dealing with certified AC. All the
requirements talked about below are tossed out the window when dealing
with the Amateur-built experimental classification.
Linn
do not archive
Jim wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim" <n144hr@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi gang -
>
>Well it looks like a reasonably priced overhaul or rebuild of your mags has gone
down the tubes. You can thank your FAA for that. In order to rebuild and
certify aircraft parts the requirements for a shop are intolerable. My cousin
would do the best job you could pay for but he would have to completely change
his shop setup. The OH shop would have to be contained in it's own separate
environment and all parts would have to have cetification and be kept separate
from any non-certified parts and hardware - this includes screws, washers, etc.
I agree with him that this is too much trouble to go to for a part time activity.
Given the necessary changes, etc. it wouldn't pencil out for the consumer.
He would have to charge the same as any shop. We haven't even addressed
the insurance requirements. Sorry to get your hopes up. On the other hand,
if the owner didn't care about an 8313 or whatever it is, it might be a different
story.
>
>jim
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Interior and paint scheme pictures |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
> I have pictures if you would like.
I would like one. Private email bounced. I don't fill out forms to allow
access :)
Ron Lee
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Howdy,
Today I had the opportunity to complete the installation of, and fly, a
TruTrak ADI. TruTrak does not really characterize it, but I would call it a
pseudo attitude indicator with track information.
Flying the instrument was interesting. It is quite a bit different than an
attitude indicator as it does not indicate actual attitude. The pseudo
pitch information is from solid state gyros and rate of climb information.
In an high performance airplane like an RV you get much bigger pseudo pitch
deflections than you are used to. It looked to me like someone that was not
used to flying an attitude indicator in IFC would find this instrument a bit
easier as you will hold altitude pretty well if you just line up the level
flight balls. For someone really used to an AI I think it would be quite a
transition. Long ingrained habits do not work well with this instrument.
As in my Dynon EFIS D-10A, things also seem a little delayed and jiggly,
compared to actual physical gyros, not really that big a deal.
That real downer is that this instrument uses, like the XM antenna in my
Garmin 396, a very magnetic GPS antenna. This is completely inappropriate
in an aluminum airplane and makes it very difficult to mount the antenna in
a position that does not direly affect the magnetic compass. These
companies badly need to find a supplier without magnets, for the GA market.
By the way, this instrument is a killer substitute for a turn coordinator.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Howdy Larry,
GPS antennas can be had here (and I'm sure other places too):
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/gps_antenna.html
or you could cut 'em open like Dan did to get rid of the magnet.
Please post follow ups on flying the ADI. I'm thinking about using it as
primary and I'd like to hear if it grows on you as you fly it more.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>Howdy,
That real downer is that this instrument uses, like the XM antenna in my
Garmin 396, a very magnetic GPS antenna. This is completely
inappropriate
in an aluminum airplane and makes it very difficult to mount the antenna
in
a position that does not direly affect the magnetic compass. These
companies badly need to find a supplier without magnets, for the GA
market.
By the way, this instrument is a killer substitute for a turn
coordinator.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Crossover exhaust. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Question on exhaust:
Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a GOOD reason the front
two pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says
that Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I
wonder why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump
and dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders
heating up the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe
configuration and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the engine?
Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out the
cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A Lancair 360
builder I know built his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts.
He says the crossover setup actually creates back pressure that robs engine
power. Airplane isn't flying yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it.
Another Q200 builder did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine
and says there has been a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps (and no
engine performance degradation). I can't believe this hasn't come up before,
anybody know the answer? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust
has to crossover? Is this another thing we builders do just because
production aircraft did it and because everyone else does it? Larry
Vetterman why aren't you building NON-crossover exhaust?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing exhaust
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