Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:51 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? ()
2. 04:03 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Kevin Horton)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines (Mannan J. Thomason)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Kevin Horton)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Rob Prior (rv7))
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Dave Bristol)
7. 09:22 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Charlie England)
8. 09:38 AM - The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! (Matt Dralle)
9. 09:52 AM - Backup AI was Venturi and Drag ? (Ed Holyoke)
10. 11:49 AM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Tedd McHenry)
11. 02:11 PM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Dave Bristol)
12. 02:38 PM - P-Mag (sturdy@att.net)
13. 02:41 PM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Ron Lee)
14. 03:05 PM - Re: Venturi and Drag ? (Kelly McMullen)
15. 03:27 PM - Re: P-Mag (LessDragProd@aol.com)
16. 03:46 PM - Re: Printer labels with white ink (Jeff Dowling)
17. 03:50 PM - Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter (Jeff Dowling)
18. 04:48 PM - Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter (Mark Grieve)
19. 05:24 PM - Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter (Dave Bristol)
20. 07:37 PM - Re: Printer labels with white ink (James H Nelson)
21. 08:32 PM - Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter (Chuck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Trevor:
It is not a terrible idea and I went thru the research I can share with you.
I did decide to go a different direction but it is an interesting idea. The drag
for a 4" unit is only going to be about 1.5 mph at 200 MPH and that is a
good guess. It could be less.
I thought the same thing and looked into it. There was actually some research
technical notes done by NASA in 1948. I have a PDF copy if you want. They
looked at 6 Venturi tubes 3 small, 3 large. To answer you question a quick
look makes it look like the small one is worth 0.5 mph drag at 200 mph. The
Large one was about 1.5 mph drag at 200 mph.
The small measures about Length x Dia of mouth = 6.375" x 1.75"
The large measures about Length x Dia of mouth = 10.5" x 3.1
The small is what I think today is a 2" unit, and the large a 4" unit. The paper
shows they produce more than the base rated value depending on speed and
altitude. I am guessing at 190 mph the out put will be much higher, since
these things where made and tested for only about 100-135 mph. Based on
there drag info at 100 I could extrapolate to 200 mph acuratly and that is
where I got the drag numbers above.
Besides looks and drag the large one will need a regulator and filter and
the smaller 2" may or may not be enough to drive a Attitude indicator. I
like the 2" because of less drag and you may not need a regulator if used
with a DG or AI. They where made originally for just one T&B. However at
RV speeds it should be above 2"-hg suction. However it may drive one DG
well. The AI needs more flow than the DG.
I wanted a back-up non-elect gyro. I was interested in the small Venturi
driving either a AI or a DG. The cost of a Elect mechanical AI back-ups
are too high, but I decided to go another direction. The cost of solid state
Gyros have come down and feel they are sufficient; since I already have
a Dynon EFIS and a Navaid Autopilot. A unit like the TruTrak AI is a
good back-up to those two gyros, and it goes for about $1000 usd.
The drag and looks plus the new solid state units made this a no go for
me. Also after the Venturi you may need to buy, regulator, filter. Than
you need to buy the Vac instrument, which can be expensive and prone
to failure. By the time you are done you may be better to just by solid
state gyro, which has zero drag. Also if you are going to do real IFR
using the Venturi for your prime attitude flight instruments you have to
think of icing. OF course you should never get into icing, intentionally at
least. If you did get into ice, it could be bad news.
If you want to keep looking into adding a small or large Venturi let me
know exact size (dimensions) of the Venturi you want to use, may be
I can calculate the exact suction it will produce and predict the drag.
There are all kinds of Venturi designs so it may be hard to know exactly
but the manufacture may provide info, or you could flight test it. Great
idea even though I abadonded it; it will work, and DRAG is not a real big
deal. A VAC pump is a terrible thing. Expensive and they break. Plus the
carbon dust gets into the gyros and kills them. A Venturi is a pure thing
that works like a charm, but it just may be a little out of place on a slick
homebuilt like a RV (anachronistic I thinkn is the word).
George
Time: 11:58:32 AM PST US
From: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RV-List: Venturi and Drag ?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj@ozemail.com.au>
After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I
would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. Can anyone tell
me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever seen one
RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just too
great ?
Thanks
Trevor Mills 80605
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 25 Nov 2005, at 10:00, Trevor Mills wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor Mills"
> <millstrj@ozemail.com.au>
>
> After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner
> engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments.
> Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I
> have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because
> the drag penalty is just too great ?
Let's look at an RV that will cruise at 190 mph TAS at 8,000 ft at
75% power with a 160 hp engine (Van's specs for the RV-6). 75% power
is 120 hp. If we assume a prop efficiency of 85%, that gives us 120
* 0.85 = 102 hp available to overcome drag. 190 mph * 5280/3600 =
279 ft/sec. Power required = drag times speed, so drag = power / speed.
The total drag = (102 hp * 550 ft-lb/s per hp)/279 ft/sec = 201 lb.
I can't find a drag coefficient for a venturi, so the best I can do
is treat it as a flat plate. Hoerner, in Fluid-Dynamic Drag, gives
us a drag coefficient of 1.17 for a circular disk (page 3-17) with a
Reynolds number between 10
4 and 10
6.
The frontal area of a 4" venturi would be 12.5 in
2 or 0.0868 ft
2.
The air density at 8,000 ft on a standard day is 0.00186 slug/ft
3
(http://aero.stanford.edu/StdAtm.html)
The drag from the venturi = 0.5 * density * V
2 * CD * Area.
The predicted venturi drag = 0.5 * 0.00186 * 279
2 * 1.17 * 0.0868 =
7.4 lb drag.
7.4 lb of venturi drag / 201 airframe drag = 3.7% drag increase. The
speed is expected to vary with the cube root of the drag. So a 3.7%
drag increase should lead to about a 1.2% speed decrease, or a loss
of about 2-3 mph.
Keep in mind that I have no idea what the real drag coefficient of a
venturi is. It may very well be higher than I assumed, but looking
at the CDs Hoerner gives for some fairly ugly shapes, I wouldn't
expect the venturi's CD to be greater than 2.5, which would give
about a 5 mph speed loss.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mannan J. Thomason" <mannanj@alltel.net>
Another consideration for any engine in my oppinion would be Barrett
Precision Engines in Tulsa Ok. They build a lot of engines for the big air
show peformers. I believe they also build the IO-390X, a 210 hp engine
that Dick Martin has in his "fastest RV-8 in the world."
Mannan
RV-8 slo-build
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
This is really bizarre. My message, as sent, had a bunch of "caret"
characters (the one on top of the 6 key on many keyboards) to
indicate a number raised to a power. But, the message from the list
had the "caret" characters replaced by new lines.
After reading George's post, where he mentioned data from a NACA
report, I remembered that a 4 inch venturi isn't 4 inches in
diameter, if I recall correctly. I think the 4 inch refers to the
amount of suction produced at some specific speed. So, the diameter
will be smaller than I assumed, which means less drag. George has
actual test data, so his numbers are a lot better than mine.
Kevin
On 26 Nov 2005, at 07:02, Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> Let's look at an RV that will cruise at 190 mph TAS at 8,000 ft at
> 75% power with a 160 hp engine (Van's specs for the RV-6). 75% power
> is 120 hp. If we assume a prop efficiency of 85%, that gives us 120
> * 0.85 = 102 hp available to overcome drag. 190 mph * 5280/3600 > 279 ft/sec.
Power required = drag times speed, so drag = power /
> speed.
>
> The total drag = (102 hp * 550 ft-lb/s per hp)/279 ft/sec = 201 lb.
>
> I can't find a drag coefficient for a venturi, so the best I can do
> is treat it as a flat plate. Hoerner, in Fluid-Dynamic Drag, gives
> us a drag coefficient of 1.17 for a circular disk (page 3-17) with a
> Reynolds number between 10
> 4 and 10
> 6.
>
> The frontal area of a 4" venturi would be 12.5 in
> 2 or 0.0868 ft
> 2.
> The air density at 8,000 ft on a standard day is 0.00186 slug/ft
> 3
> (http://aero.stanford.edu/StdAtm.html)
>
> The drag from the venturi = 0.5 * density * V
> 2 * CD * Area.
>
> The predicted venturi drag = 0.5 * 0.00186 * 279
> 2 * 1.17 * 0.0868 > 7.4 lb drag.
>
> 7.4 lb of venturi drag / 201 airframe drag = 3.7% drag increase. The
> speed is expected to vary with the cube root of the drag. So a 3.7%
> drag increase should lead to about a 1.2% speed decrease, or a loss
> of about 2-3 mph.
>
> Keep in mind that I have no idea what the real drag coefficient of a
> venturi is. It may very well be higher than I assumed, but looking
> at the CDs Hoerner gives for some fairly ugly shapes, I wouldn't
> expect the venturi's CD to be greater than 2.5, which would give
> about a 5 mph speed loss.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 4:02:42 2005-11-26 Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
> I can't find a drag coefficient for a venturi, so the best I can do
> is treat it as a flat plate. Hoerner, in Fluid-Dynamic Drag, gives
> us a drag coefficient of 1.17 for a circular disk (page 3-17) with a
> Reynolds number between 10
4 and 10
6.
Given that venturi's are reasonably aerodynamic, I would be surprised if
their drag coefficient was as high as that of a flat plate. Even so, your
number came out with 2-3mph reduction, and the previous poster said 1-1.5.
Sounds like we're in the right ballpark, anyway.
You could place two of the 4" ones on the belly of the airplane and it
might not look too out of place. If anyone asks, tell them it's your JATO
system. :)
-Rob
Do Not Archive
Aside: You should be able to work out the drag on the venturi due to the
creation of the vaccuum in the system... You can work out (or approximate)
the throat reduction, and you know the vaccuum you end up with in the
system, so you should be able to calculate the dynamic pressure on the
throat. But i'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. :)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Trevor,
This is not a very good idea at all. I spent 30 years flying my Stinson
with venturi's and regardless of the looks and drag, the performance
won't be acceptable.
Venturi's were used with the old AN type gyros which were pretty
efficient because they were designed to operate from the venturi. The
newer type of instruments require the same 4" of vacuum but a lot more
air flow. When I changed out the old gyros for new, I had to use 2 9"
venturi's (without a regulator) just to get the required 4" of vacuum.
Back in the 40's a 9" venturi would run everything, including the T&B.
So you would have to use at least a 9" venturi which is REALLY big and
ugly (IIRC about 4" in diameter by 12 to 14 " in length).
Now keeping all this in mind, remember that you will NOT have any gyros
on takeoff or initial climb and the venturi is subject to icing.
Bottom line, don't go there. If you can't use a vacuum pump, sell the
gyro and get something electric. It's not worth trying to resurrect 70
year old technology when there are so many modern options.
Dave -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
Trevor Mills wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj@ozemail.com.au>
>
>After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I would
like to use what I have in the way of instruments.
>Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever
seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just
too great ?
>
>Thanks
>
>Trevor Mills 80605
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>This is really bizarre. My message, as sent, had a bunch of "caret"
>characters (the one on top of the 6 key on many keyboards) to
>indicate a number raised to a power. But, the message from the list
>had the "caret" characters replaced by new lines.
>
>After reading George's post, where he mentioned data from a NACA
>report, I remembered that a 4 inch venturi isn't 4 inches in
>diameter, if I recall correctly. I think the 4 inch refers to the
>amount of suction produced at some specific speed. So, the diameter
>will be smaller than I assumed, which means less drag. George has
>actual test data, so his numbers are a lot better than mine.
>
>Kevin
>
Kevin,
I remember reading somewhere that venturis started on the belly & moved
to the side of the fuse when mfgrs realized they could save a few feet
of tubing & some labor by mounting them even with the instrument panel.
Would mounting the venturi on the belly with its inlet ~even with the
firewall, so it's fed by the cooling air exit, have any effect on total
drag? I assume that the exit air isn't accelerated back to the full
180-200mph relative to the airframe, so would drag be somewhat lower? A
potential side benefit is the warmer air from the cowl without as much
moisture if flying in freezing conditions.
What do you think?
Charlie
Message 8
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| Subject: | The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On
December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a
Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly
thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems
at least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a
building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine
subscription. We won't even talk about a newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a
Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or
M/C on the SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that
its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't
forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped
you! I love to feel the love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Backup AI was Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Trevor,
It sounds as if you're trying to find a way to use your vacuum
instruments even though your engine of choice doesn't have a spot for a
vacuum pump. Probably your best bet is to E-bay your instruments and get
some electric powered ones. As others have pointed out, vacuum
instruments are the wave of the past in terms of reliability and
utility. The real question, for many of us, becomes how to reliably
backup an all electric panel.
The electric turn and bank/coordinator was a response to the reliability
concerns of air powered gauges. You don't want everything going belly up
at the same time. When all gauges are on electric power, it seems
prudent to have two (or more) sources of power for them with sufficient
capacity to operate them for the remaining duration of fuel. Trevor,
you'll be needing something like this anyway as your engine of choice is
electrically dependant. Check out the AeroElectric Connection for ideas.
You can also subscribe to the AeroElectric list for good discussions.
On another note, for those with vac pads on their engines, I've been
seeing ads for piston powered vac pumps from Sigma Tek. These will
supposedly be more reliable than the old style wet or dry pumps.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj@ozemail.com.au>
>
>After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I
would like to use what I have in the way of instruments.
>Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have
only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag
penalty is just too great ?
>
>Thanks
>
>Trevor Mills 80605
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Dave Bristol wrote:
> The newer type of instruments require the same 4" of vacuum but a lot more
> air flow.
I think Dave makes a valid point here. I've been flying a Navion with a single
venturi and it's not really adequate to drive the AI and T&B. The owner is
planning to add a second venturi.
But the Navion only cruises at 120 kias. The extra speed of an RV would
presumably give better performance from the venturi.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
I moved mine to the side to get them into the propwash - made a major
improvement in vacuum. Manufacturers probably did it for the same reason.
Dave
do not archive
Charlie England wrote:
>Kevin,
>
>I remember reading somewhere that venturis started on the belly & moved
>to the side of the fuse when mfgrs realized they could save a few feet
>of tubing & some labor by mounting them even with the instrument panel.
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: sturdy@att.net
Listers,
I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right side.
My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left side
to give me dual electronic ignitions but still keep the reliablility fall back
of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail. Anybody
have practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or directly
by email. Thanks.
Stu McCurdy
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Listers,
I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right side.
My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left side
to give me dual electronic ignitions but stillkeep the reliablility fall back
of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail. Anybody have
practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or directly by
email. Thanks.
Stu McCurdy
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
>But the Navion only cruises at 120 kias. The extra speed of an RV would
>presumably give better performance from the venturi.
And another point made is why bother with such devices on an RV. Consider a
Dynon like system.
Ron Lee
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Venturi and Drag ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
I would agree with that assessment, after 20+ years flying a C170B with
venturis and AN gyros. The AN gyros will work with as little as 2" of
vacuum, but modern gyros will start precessing when you get much under 4".
Then, a venturi will ice up before you get carb ice, at temps as high as 55
degrees, and you WILL get lots of partial panel practice if you fly through
any clouds with them. BTDT. Not a good thing. There used to be conversion
kits to add a pulley to the front of certain engines to front mount a vac
pump, early 172s had them on Cont O-300As.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Venturi and Drag ?
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Trevor,
This is not a very good idea at all. I spent 30 years flying my Stinson
with venturi's and regardless of the looks and drag, the performance
won't be acceptable.
Venturi's were used with the old AN type gyros which were pretty
efficient because they were designed to operate from the venturi.
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com
You didn't say, so I'll guess. A Lycoming 360 with a fixed pitch wood
propeller?
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/26/2005 2:39:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sturdy@att.net writes:
Listers,
I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right
side. My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left
side to give me dual electronic ignitions but stillkeep the reliablility fall
back of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail.
Anybody have practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or
directly by email. Thanks.
Stu McCurdy
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Printer labels with white ink |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
How about using clear with black ink? You can buy it in standard 8.5 x 11
sheets at any office supply store and print in your own printer. I copied
this from someone else and it works great. Once it gets a little old, just
pull it off and use a new one.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim@juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink
> --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note
> functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can
> make some labels?
>
>
> Jim Nelson
> RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy)
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
Take a look at bike Friday.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> I used to use one of those folding bikes but it always felt like I was
> driving a go-kart on the Interstate. Image, being very important,
> needed to be addressed--it was simply unsat to be motoring around on a
> toy.
>
> I finally settled on a full sized mountain bike with titanium frame. A
> super bike but of course, it wouldn't fold unless you misjudged the size
> of the drop off. The bike was a piece of work getting in the back seat
> of a Velocity. And once in, you weren't assured of being able to get it
> back out. In fact that's exactly what happened to Dewe Overs. If you
> look on the Controller, you'll see a couple Velocities for sale. If you
> look closely at the green and white one, you can see a set of handle
> bars through the rear window. Dewe's ad says he'll 'throw in the bike'.
> I guess so--he's done that once already--just couldn't get it out.
>
> I solved the problem by strapping the mountain bike to the right wing.
> A fair word of warning, use those nylon straps to secure it. Rubber
> bungee cords have waaaay toooo much stretch in 'em. Now, I admit it
> wasn't a perfect solution. The Velo kind of yawed to the right which
> knocked a couple of knots off top end and when I got to where I was
> going, it wasn't always the mountains. I fixed both problems by tying a
> standard 10 speed on the left wing. Perfect. No yaw and optimum
> terminal transportation whether I was goin' to the mountains or the flat
> lands.
>
> But that wasn't the end of the benefits. Sure, it was a little more
> draggy, but then I didn't miss the speed brake that I often wished I'd
> installed. High and hot...no problem. Cut the power and you get down,
> with a capital "D" and right now. When I came into Knoxville TYS a
> couple weeks ago, I was on one mile final at 2000' agl when I cut the
> power and landed on the numbers. The Tower said "wow, did you say you
> were a Velo or a Helo."
>
> Highly recommended.
>
> Chuck
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Yes, these are wonderful bikes! They are very well engineered and a joy
to ride.
http://bikefriday.com
MG
Jeff Dowling wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>
>Take a look at bike Friday.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>
>>I used to use one of those folding bikes but it always felt like I was
>>driving a go-kart on the Interstate. Image, being very important,
>>needed to be addressed--it was simply unsat to be motoring around on a
>>toy.
>>
>>I finally settled on a full sized mountain bike with titanium frame. A
>>super bike but of course, it wouldn't fold unless you misjudged the size
>>of the drop off. The bike was a piece of work getting in the back seat
>>of a Velocity. And once in, you weren't assured of being able to get it
>>back out. In fact that's exactly what happened to Dewe Overs. If you
>>look on the Controller, you'll see a couple Velocities for sale. If you
>>look closely at the green and white one, you can see a set of handle
>>bars through the rear window. Dewe's ad says he'll 'throw in the bike'.
>>I guess so--he's done that once already--just couldn't get it out.
>>
>>I solved the problem by strapping the mountain bike to the right wing.
>>A fair word of warning, use those nylon straps to secure it. Rubber
>>bungee cords have waaaay toooo much stretch in 'em. Now, I admit it
>>wasn't a perfect solution. The Velo kind of yawed to the right which
>>knocked a couple of knots off top end and when I got to where I was
>>going, it wasn't always the mountains. I fixed both problems by tying a
>>standard 10 speed on the left wing. Perfect. No yaw and optimum
>>terminal transportation whether I was goin' to the mountains or the flat
>>lands.
>>
>>But that wasn't the end of the benefits. Sure, it was a little more
>>draggy, but then I didn't miss the speed brake that I often wished I'd
>>installed. High and hot...no problem. Cut the power and you get down,
>>with a capital "D" and right now. When I came into Knoxville TYS a
>>couple weeks ago, I was on one mile final at 2000' agl when I cut the
>>power and landed on the numbers. The Tower said "wow, did you say you
>>were a Velo or a Helo."
>>
>>Highly recommended.
>>
>>Chuck
>>Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
For what they cost they should be wonderful, you can buy a nice
autopilot for less.!
Dave
do not archive
Mark Grieve wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
>
>Yes, these are wonderful bikes! They are very well engineered and a joy
>to ride.
>http://bikefriday.com
>MG
>
>Jeff Dowling wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Take a look at bike Friday.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>>
>>>I used to use one of those folding bikes but it always felt like I was
>>>driving a go-kart on the Interstate. Image, being very important,
>>>needed to be addressed--it was simply unsat to be motoring around on a
>>>toy.
>>>
>>>I finally settled on a full sized mountain bike with titanium frame. A
>>>super bike but of course, it wouldn't fold unless you misjudged the size
>>>of the drop off. The bike was a piece of work getting in the back seat
>>>of a Velocity. And once in, you weren't assured of being able to get it
>>>back out. In fact that's exactly what happened to Dewe Overs. If you
>>>look on the Controller, you'll see a couple Velocities for sale. If you
>>>look closely at the green and white one, you can see a set of handle
>>>bars through the rear window. Dewe's ad says he'll 'throw in the bike'.
>>>I guess so--he's done that once already--just couldn't get it out.
>>>
>>>I solved the problem by strapping the mountain bike to the right wing.
>>>A fair word of warning, use those nylon straps to secure it. Rubber
>>>bungee cords have waaaay toooo much stretch in 'em. Now, I admit it
>>>wasn't a perfect solution. The Velo kind of yawed to the right which
>>>knocked a couple of knots off top end and when I got to where I was
>>>going, it wasn't always the mountains. I fixed both problems by tying a
>>>standard 10 speed on the left wing. Perfect. No yaw and optimum
>>>terminal transportation whether I was goin' to the mountains or the flat
>>>lands.
>>>
>>>But that wasn't the end of the benefits. Sure, it was a little more
>>>draggy, but then I didn't miss the speed brake that I often wished I'd
>>>installed. High and hot...no problem. Cut the power and you get down,
>>>with a capital "D" and right now. When I came into Knoxville TYS a
>>>couple weeks ago, I was on one mile final at 2000' agl when I cut the
>>>power and landed on the numbers. The Tower said "wow, did you say you
>>>were a Velo or a Helo."
>>>
>>>Highly recommended.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Printer labels with white ink |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Hi Jeff,
The problem is the grey I used on my panel is fairly dark so
black letters would not show up very well. I could use bold in the
script but still in the world of "grey scale", those colors are toooo
close together. White would be the choice, even a very light blue. If
night flying, white would show up the best under dim lighting. When the
dodo hits the fan when its dark outside, you need to do it right with no
confusion. I know, I designed it and built it so there should be
minimal confusion, but some day I'll sell it and the next guy will need
all the help possible. As I get older and slow down, physically and
mentally, I will need all the help I can get. It's a bummer getting old
and slow (not me!).
Jim Nelson
RV9-A QB (N599RV reserved)
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
Geeez, 20 pounds and they cost an arm and a leg too.
Hecka' Doodle for 3 to 4 thousand dollars; I could make a five pound folding
bike out of carbon fiber/graphite, aluminum & titanium, with a belt drive !!!
Chuck
Dave Bristol <dbris200@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol
For what they cost they should be wonderful, you can buy a nice
autopilot for less.!
Dave
do not archive
Mark Grieve wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve
>
>Yes, these are wonderful bikes! They are very well engineered and a joy
>to ride.
>http://bikefriday.com
>MG
>
>Jeff Dowling wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
>>
>>Take a look at bike Friday.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Chuck Jensen"
>>To:
>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen"
>>>
>>>I used to use one of those folding bikes but it always felt like I was
>>>driving a go-kart on the Interstate. Image, being very important,
>>>needed to be addressed--it was simply unsat to be motoring around on a
>>>toy.
>>>
>>>I finally settled on a full sized mountain bike with titanium frame. A
>>>super bike but of course, it wouldn't fold unless you misjudged the size
>>>of the drop off. The bike was a piece of work getting in the back seat
>>>of a Velocity. And once in, you weren't assured of being able to get it
>>>back out. In fact that's exactly what happened to Dewe Overs. If you
>>>look on the Controller, you'll see a couple Velocities for sale. If you
>>>look closely at the green and white one, you can see a set of handle
>>>bars through the rear window. Dewe's ad says he'll 'throw in the bike'.
>>>I guess so--he's done that once already--just couldn't get it out.
>>>
>>>I solved the problem by strapping the mountain bike to the right wing.
>>>A fair word of warning, use those nylon straps to secure it. Rubber
>>>bungee cords have waaaay toooo much stretch in 'em. Now, I admit it
>>>wasn't a perfect solution. The Velo kind of yawed to the right which
>>>knocked a couple of knots off top end and when I got to where I was
>>>going, it wasn't always the mountains. I fixed both problems by tying a
>>>standard 10 speed on the left wing. Perfect. No yaw and optimum
>>>terminal transportation whether I was goin' to the mountains or the flat
>>>lands.
>>>
>>>But that wasn't the end of the benefits. Sure, it was a little more
>>>draggy, but then I didn't miss the speed brake that I often wished I'd
>>>installed. High and hot...no problem. Cut the power and you get down,
>>>with a capital "D" and right now. When I came into Knoxville TYS a
>>>couple weeks ago, I was on one mile final at 2000' agl when I cut the
>>>power and landed on the numbers. The Tower said "wow, did you say you
>>>were a Velo or a Helo."
>>>
>>>Highly recommended.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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