Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:16 AM - Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters (j. davis)
3. 04:21 AM - Re: Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The (Jerry Springer)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05 (Esten Spears)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05 (Jeff Dowling)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters (CBRxxDRV@aol.com)
7. 08:00 AM - Used O-470 Engine Parts (Mark & Lisa)
8. 08:46 AM - Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters (Bob J)
9. 10:47 AM - AvMap EKP-IV and TRIO Avionics EZ Auto-pilot (Lockamy, Jack L)
10. 12:04 PM - Re: Printer labels with white ink (davercook)
11. 01:48 PM - AN fittings basic info ()
12. 03:07 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Scott Bilinski)
13. 03:48 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Gerry Filby)
14. 04:05 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (William Gill)
15. 05:38 PM - Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (sportav8r@aol.com)
16. 05:41 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Mark Grieve)
17. 07:19 PM - Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (H.Ivan Haecker)
18. 07:27 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Gerry Filby)
19. 07:33 PM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Bill Schlatterer)
20. 07:39 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (William Gill)
21. 07:41 PM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Paul Besing)
22. 08:43 PM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Alan & Linda Daniels)
23. 09:04 PM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Dave Nellis)
24. 09:37 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Chris W)
25. 09:45 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Dave Saylor)
26. 10:27 PM - Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (David Leonard)
27. 11:10 PM - Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (Rob Prior (rv7))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I've also had a rather extensive background
in web development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 50 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For the upmost in flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own
servers here locally. Other support systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched
network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda
spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial business T1 Internet
connection with static addressing.
The computer servers found here include two, dual processor Xeon Linux systems
dedicated to the email and web functions respectfully, and another P4 Linux system
serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for
an on-line, hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terabytes of storage. This
entire system is protected by multiple commercial-grade uninterrupted power
supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local
power outage!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Here's a new composite photo of the
List Computer Center following this Summer's upgrades!
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keep it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters |
--> RV-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
CBRxxDRV@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 11/23/05 2:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim@pellien.com
>writes:
>
>
>
>
>>Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for
>>the Rotax 912ULS engine?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Oil Filter:
>
>If my memory serves me....a Fram PH3614 is the one you need
>or you can even cross it over to other brands. A 4 cyl Chrysler K-car
>I think is the application .
>
>Do a search on Google.com to be sure.
>
>
>
>
I have been warned by Rotax mechanics that substituting an
automotive oil filter for a genuine Rotax filter is not recommended:
the Rotax engine develops significantly higher oil pressures than
automotive engines, so you could unknowingly be bypassing your
filter via the high pressure bypass.
>
>
>
>
--
Regards, J.
built: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 250 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 50% completed
Brandywine Aviation: N42 47.33 W081 36.50 13/31, 2400', 760'elev.
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | *NIX guru, consultant |
| Research Programmer, SysMgr | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| Lawson Health Research Inst | voice: 519 6466100 x64166 |
| London, Ontario | fax: 519 6466399 |
| Canada | http://www.cleco.ca |
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time.
--- Steven Wright
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The |
Lists"...?
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Matt Dralle wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists?
>
Wow Matt, that looks a lot different than it did when I was at your
house and there were computers stacked on top of computers. :-)
Nice job!!! The only problem that I see is that the RV-4 is still not
done.:(
Jerry
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Esten Spears" <ewspears@comcast.net>
Ron,
I must be missing something on this thread. Most panel mount GPS's don't even
require a Porcine Coupler to work with a Navaid. The Porcine Coupler was developed
so people could use handheld GPS's to drive Navaids. Panel Mounts, like
my Garmin XL 250 use the "+LEFT" and "+RIGHT" Indicator Drive Output directly
into the Navaid.
I would be interested to know what "course deviation sensitivity" people have
found to work best with a RV/Panel Mount GPS/Navaid Setup since this can be
set in the GPS Setup Screens.
Thanks!
Esten Spears, Leeward Air Ranch, RV8A, 80922, N922ES, - FWF
> Time: 05:20:08 AM PST US
> From: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>
> I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS
> Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's.
>
> I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's latest
> coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not
> transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held GPS's -
> rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine couplers
> have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is until the
> update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update this
> summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to
> "aviation - no altitude".
>
> Ronnie Brown
> Velocity N703MR
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
I called Navaid and set what they recommended. It was a pretty small scale
but I forgot what it was.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Esten Spears" <ewspears@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Esten Spears" <ewspears@comcast.net>
>
> Ron,
> I must be missing something on this thread. Most panel mount GPS's
> don't even require a Porcine Coupler to work with a Navaid. The Porcine
> Coupler was developed so people could use handheld GPS's to drive Navaids.
> Panel Mounts, like my Garmin XL 250 use the "+LEFT" and "+RIGHT"
> Indicator Drive Output directly into the Navaid.
> I would be interested to know what "course deviation sensitivity"
> people have found to work best with a RV/Panel Mount GPS/Navaid Setup
> since this can be set in the GPS Setup Screens.
> Thanks!
> Esten Spears, Leeward Air Ranch, RV8A, 80922, N922ES, - FWF
>
>> Time: 05:20:08 AM PST US
>> From: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>>
>> I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS
>> Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's.
>>
>> I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's latest
>> coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not
>> transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held GPS's -
>> rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine
>> couplers
>> have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is until
>> the
>> update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update this
>> summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to
>> "aviation - no altitude".
>>
>> Ronnie Brown
>> Velocity N703MR
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters |
--> RV-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/28/2005 7:19:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jd@lawsonimaging.ca writes:
> I have been warned by Rotax mechanics that substituting an
> automotive oil filter for a genuine Rotax filter is not recommended:
> the Rotax engine develops significantly higher oil pressures than
> automotive engines, so you could unknowingly be bypassing your
> filter via the high pressure bypass.
>
There is a by-pass in the Rotax filter that is not found on the fram and
auto filters. The by-pass allows oil to flow even with a cloged filter....I
think Phil Lockwood had told me this. Rans has always run Fram (auto) filters
on thier factory planes as well other manufacturers I have seen at airshows. I
think N 912SC now has over 400 fram hours on it .....I may need to check with
the current owner.
But as always YMMV . I have had 2 912's with fram filters. I dug pretty deep
before I made the switch and was satisfied with what I had found.
Sal
do not archive
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Used O-470 Engine Parts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
Listers,
Have a friend with an airboat sporting an inop Cont O-470. Anyone have a
source of used (uncertifiable, out of spec, etc.) parts? My thought is we
can probably get this thing running well enough for use on the local duck
pond with throw-away (for aviation use anyway) parts.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J <rocketbob@gmail.com>
>
> I have been warned by Rotax mechanics that substituting an
> automotive oil filter for a genuine Rotax filter is not recommended:
> the Rotax engine develops significantly higher oil pressures than
> automotive engines, so you could unknowingly be bypassing your
> filter via the high pressure bypass.
>
You need to have your mechanics explain to you the technical reasons why you
wouldn't substitute filters...I'll bet you they can't. High operating oil
pressures have nothing to do with bypass valve operation. Bypass valves for
filters are spec'ed by the filter manufacturers as a low number. This low
number is the amount of pressure *differential* from the inlet side to the
outlet side of the filter; in other words, across the filter. Once pressure
comes up, there should be little pressure differential.
I avoid Fram filters, there is plenty of information on the web regarding
which filters perform the best. Fram is always at the bottom of those
lists.
I use a Wix 51068 on my O-360, not the standard Champion 48110. It bypasses
at 8-11 psi. It has a anti-drainback valve which the 48110 doesn't. After
an oil change I can leave the filter over a cup to drain out for a few days,
once I cut it open I can dump 1/2 qt. of oil out of it. The benefit of this
is that there is always oil inside the filter, so during cranking it takes
less time for the galleys and filter to pressurize and fill with oil, which
has obvious wear benefits. On one oil analysis, Blackstone stated that the
numbers looked like what they see for 35 hr. oil even though my change
interval is 50 hours. The other great thing about using this filter is it
only costs $5.79, and judging by my past oil analyses, filters better than
the 48110. No there's no safety nut on it, and I am comfortable with not
having the filter safety wired.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
Message 9
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| Subject: | AvMap EKP-IV and TRIO Avionics EZ Auto-pilot |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lockamy, Jack L" <jack.lockamy@navy.mil>
Is there anyone on the list currently flying an AvMap EKP-IV GPS (see www.avmapnavigation.com) that is connected and sending serial data to their Trio Avionics EZ Auto-pilot (see www.trioavionics.com)? If so, would you please contact me off list at: jacklockamy@verizon.net or jack.lockamy@navy.mil?
I have a question...
Thanks in advance,
Jack Lockamy
RV-7A N174JL 112.0 hrs
www.jacklockamy.com
Camarillo, CA
do not archive
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Printer labels with white ink |
--> RV-List message posted by: "davercook" <davercook@prodigy.net>
Hi Jim
The labels are TZ-S135 ,available on the Brothers Web site. I use the
P-touch 1180 labeler.
Dave Cook RV-6 Finish Kit N815DC Res.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim@juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink
> --> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note
> functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can
> make some labels?
>
>
> Jim Nelson
> RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy)
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
Howdy
Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions
after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13
(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread portions of
fittings, correct?
(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to installation instructions at http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh?
(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing with a diamter
of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare?
(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there
a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one?
Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
Erich Weaver
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
From my experience, tighten until they no longer leak! Not trying to be a
smart ass here but it is amazing just how tight they need to be in order to
not leak. It varies a lot from fitting to fitting, even though they are
"the same fitting" just different location. Remember your not building a
Swiss watch.
At 04:47 PM 11/28/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
>Howdy
>
>Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few
>questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13
>
>(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread
>portions of fittings, correct?
>
>(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on
>flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a
>torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent
>any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without
>measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to
>installation instructions at
>http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which
>talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This
>only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut
>after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being
>distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of
>"Flareless Tube Installation". Huh?
>
>(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing
>with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare?
>
>(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used.
>I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or
>just one?
>
>Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
>
>Erich Weaver
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a
"crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to
recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the
change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension.
This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a
section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA
- I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or
something like that.
The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is
to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use
ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between
the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal.
As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone
else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ...
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
> Howdy
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still
> have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing
> AC 43.13
>
> (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe
> thread portions of fittings, correct?
>
> (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening
> fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications,
> but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the
> tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over
> it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual
> torque applied? One archive post referred to installation
> instructions at
> http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html,
> which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins
> to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about
> how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common
> problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round
> etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube
> Installation". Huh?
>
> (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for
> tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double
> flare?
>
> (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers
> are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they
> go on both sides or just one?
>
> Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
>
> Erich Weaver
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 14
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| Subject: | AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Erich,
Here's what I learned from our company A&P many months ago. I can't
recall the reference.
-4 fitting: 40 - 60 inch-pounds
-6 fitting: 110 - 130 inch-pounds
Also, Dan has a torque calculator on his site when an extension such as
a "crow's feet" is used.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
erichweaver@cox.net
Subject: RV-List: AN fittings basic info
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
Howdy
Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a
few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13
(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread
portions of fittings, correct?
(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on
flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use
a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would
prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these
without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred
to installation instructions at
http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which
talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom.
This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the
nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being
distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of
"Flareless Tube Installation". Huh?
(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing
with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare?
(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are
used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both
sides or just one?
Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
Erich Weaver
Message 15
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| Subject: | Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the pursuit of an IFR ticket.
First step seems obvious: take ground school at home on the laptop with a CDROM
or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim that will emulate (or come close)
my RV-6A.
I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand knowledge to help guide my shopping.
I'd hate to buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have steered me
in a better direction. Looking for course, textbook and sim software & hardware
recommendations.
Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you feel this is not of general/archival
interest.
-Stormy
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
erichweaver@cox.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
>Howdy
>
>Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions
after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13
>
>(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread portions of
fittings, correct?
>
>(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to installation instructions at http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh?
>
>(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing with a
diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare?
>
>(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there
a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one?
>
>Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
>
>Erich Weaver
>
>
>
>
Excellent questions Erich! You won't learn if you don't ask questions.
Since most of the other questions have been answered, I'll tackle #3. A
double flare is formed using a really spiffy tool. The end of the tube
is folded back into the flare which gives the flare double thickness.
Read extra strength. The small diameter tubing just doesn't have much
material to work with if you are only doing a single flare. I found this
picture which should help explain.
http://www.phi-tulip.com/images/flaredr.gif
Happy building
Mark
Message 17
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| Subject: | Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports |
--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl@gvtc.com>
The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you.
The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep
traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed
(non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject
are:
1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern?
2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to
the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts
for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart
for private runways.
3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate
(albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when
you land!)
Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. I am
just interested.
Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
BTW the FAA publication I mentioned is:
US Department of Transportation Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B
"Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft
Inspection And Repair".
Its typical government speak, but its stuffed with excellent
information ...
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
> If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a
> "crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to
> recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the
> change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension.
> This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a
> section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA
> - I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or
> something like that.
>
> The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is
> to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use
> ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between
> the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal.
>
> As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone
> else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ...
>
> g
>
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
> >
> > Howdy
> >
> > Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still
> > have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing
> > AC 43.13
> >
> > (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe
> > thread portions of fittings, correct?
> >
> > (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening
> > fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications,
> > but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the
> > tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over
> > it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual
> > torque applied? One archive post referred to installation
> > instructions at
> > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html,
> > which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins
> > to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about
> > how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common
> > problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round
> > etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube
> > Installation". Huh?
> >
> > (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for
> > tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double
> > flare?
> >
> > (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers
> > are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they
> > go on both sides or just one?
> >
> > Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
> >
> > Erich Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 19
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| Subject: | Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Stormy, having just "been there, done it" I can really say that it's a
worthwhile project particularly if you want to go somewhere on a schedule.
So here is my .02
1) Get a good instructor, you have to have a sign off anyway. Fly an hour
with them and THEN get their thoughts on how long it might take.
2) Get the Gleims CD for Instrument Pilot written, it's a much better
learning experience than either Jeppeson or King.
3) Review the DVD sessions just to give you the general idea. Not near
enough information but a great introduction.
4) Do it all as quickly as possible. Get it over with. Older/experienced
minds don't retain details for long :-)
5) Microsoft Flight Sim 2004 is about as good as it gets but it does not
have all approaches.
6) Do it in an airplane without a ADF :-) and with a good GPS/VOR.
7) Get the Jeppeson IFR kneeboard organizer, it is worth the money for a
number of reasons.
Good Luck
Bill S
7a Ark fuse panel
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
sportav8r@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the pursuit of an IFR
ticket. First step seems obvious: take ground school at home on the laptop
with a CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim that will emulate
(or come close) my RV-6A.
I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand knowledge to help guide my
shopping. I'd hate to buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have steered
me in a better direction. Looking for course, textbook and sim software &
hardware recommendations.
Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you feel this is not of
general/archival interest.
-Stormy
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Chapter 5, page 117 of AC65-9A has the torque table for the AN fittings.
Google AC65-9A and select the 8th or 9th item on the list to find this
in PDF format (select chapter 5, then go to page 117).
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Subject: Re: RV-List: AN fittings basic info
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
BTW the FAA publication I mentioned is:
US Department of Transportation Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B
"Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft
Inspection And Repair".
Its typical government speak, but its stuffed with excellent
information ...
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
> If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a
> "crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to
> recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the
> change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension.
> This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a
> section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA
> - I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or
> something like that.
>
> The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is
> to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use
> ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between
> the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal.
>
> As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone
> else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ...
>
> g
>
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
> >
> > Howdy
> >
> > Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still
> > have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing
> > AC 43.13
> >
> > (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe
> > thread portions of fittings, correct?
> >
> > (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening
> > fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications,
> > but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the
> > tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over
> > it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual
> > torque applied? One archive post referred to installation
> > instructions at
> > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html,
> > which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins
> > to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about
> > how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common
> > problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round
> > etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube
> > Installation". Huh?
> >
> > (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for
> > tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double
> > flare?
> >
> > (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers
> > are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they
> > go on both sides or just one?
> >
> > Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts.
> >
> > Erich Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
I used king schools for private, instrument,
commercial, multi, and CFI/CFII. I like their
materials alot, and found them to prepare you quite
well for the written exam.
Microsoft flight sim is great for procedural stuff.
Get a CFII to teach you the basics of approaches and
such, and you'd be amazed at what a good tool it is.
Paul Besing
--- sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the
> pursuit of an IFR ticket. First step seems obvious:
> take ground school at home on the laptop with a
> CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim
> that will emulate (or come close) my RV-6A.
>
> I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand
> knowledge to help guide my shopping. I'd hate to
> buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have
> steered me in a better direction. Looking for
> course, textbook and sim software & hardware
> recommendations.
>
> Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you
> feel this is not of general/archival interest.
>
> -Stormy
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT |
--> RV-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I did it on the King tapes, pre DVD, with no problems. For me it was
much better to go to a school out of town and away from my business for
a couple days a couple times. This let me concentrate on what I was
doing without constant interruptions which would have made it very
difficult. . The learning curve is pretty steep, but when the light
finally came on - a very dim light- it all made sense.
RV-9 wings
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Stormy, having just "been there, done it" I can really say that it's a
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
http://www.x-plane.com
http://www.x-plane.org
The first site is the developer of the program. Top
notch flying characteristics. You can change any
weather perameter you wish. I have flown a G5 in
terrible thunderstorms, in the clouds and learned how
to hold course while getting tossed like tonights
salad. You are in contact with ATC (vocal/text to
you, text to ATC)at all times while IFR. Shooting
approaches into an airport setting the cloud deck at
200 feet test your mettle. Navcomm freqs are used,
HSI, CDI and any other alphabet instruments are
available. You can design the instrument panel to be
exactly like the plane you would be using for IFR
training. This program is not a game. It can be used
used for logging sim time toward an ATP rating. The
ground graphics leave a lot to be desired, but if that
is what you want, get MS flight sim 200x.
The second site is an aircraft developer's site.
Download an aircraft, modify it if you want, and fly.
Other add ons are available as well.
I fly this sim through the winter when flying weather
is at a premium here in Michigan. I find it helps
keep procedures sharp and hands and feet coordinated.
BTW, I am not a computer gamer.
I do use a joystick and rudder pedals. My $.02.
Dave
--- sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
>
> Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the
> pursuit of an IFR ticket. First step seems obvious:
> take ground school at home on the laptop with a
> CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim
> that will emulate (or come close) my RV-6A.
>
> I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand
> knowledge to help guide my shopping. I'd hate to
> buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have
> steered me in a better direction. Looking for
> course, textbook and sim software & hardware
> recommendations.
>
> Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you
> feel this is not of general/archival interest.
>
> -Stormy
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
erichweaver@cox.net wrote:
>(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing.
I have found torque specifications
>
The problem with using a torque value is they are written for a certain
metal with a certain finish, if you use a fitting with a different metal
or different finish or a tiny bit oil or other liquid gets on the
threads or other part of the fitting those torque values are worthless.
A better and much easier method is the called the FFFT or Flats From
Finger Tight method, this method works no mater what the surface
condition of the fitting is weather or not it is wet or dry. The quote
below is from pdf file published by Parker. Parker is one of the
biggest manufactures of fittings, so they should know what they are
talking about. I don't know where on the site the pdf file is but you
can probably find it a parker.com/ When I worked for a construction
equipment manufacture the 37 degree flare fittings were all that we used
on hoses and tubing for hydraulic lines at 3000+ PSI. When working on
hydraulics it is impossible to not get the hydraulic oil on the
fittings, and with the oil on them the torque numbers don't work so we
always used the FFFT method.
Well it looks like too much work to copy and past all the charts and
stuff from the PDF so I found the link
http://www.parker.com/tfd/cat/pdffiles/T-Assembly Installation.pdf
Note it looks like they now like to call it FFWR or Flats From Wrench
Resistance.
If you want to start at the beginning and see the whole fittings catalog
start here...
http://www.parker.com/tfd/cat/pdffiles/Open.pdf
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | AN fittings basic info |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
Erich,
Maybe relating some real world experience will be helpful.
(1) You are correct that lubes and sealants are not needed on B-nuts. The
threads on the B-nut play no part in making the physical seal. All the
sealing takes place at the flare; the B-nut provides pressure against the
ferrule to seal the female flare against the male cone. A correctly flared
tube and B-nut will not come loose by itself, even without sealant or
locking compound.
I have seen a very few instances of saftied B-nuts. These have been on
turbine helicopter engines and in other places were a failure would be
instantly catastrophic. I can't think of an application on an RV that would
need a saftied B-nut.
(2) In A&P school they showed us a set of special open-end torque wrenches
in a walnut case, years out of calibration, that were never ever used. In
the following 20 years as a GA A&P I haven't seen one since. You will get
the hang of torquing B-nuts by hand. If you want to check the quality of
flares and look for leaks you can pressurize most circuits with shop air
(NOT FUEL TANKS!!!) and check for leaks with soapy water.
As a general rule the B-nut should thread onto the fitting without any
interference and virtually no drag. Any drag usually indicates interference
or misalignment. The nut will come to a firm stop when it bottoms on the
ferrule edge. From there it needs only moderate pressure to stay tight,
much less than a whole turn, maybe 1/6 or 2/3. You could use the values you
found on some practice parts, with the tube cut short, to get the feel for
how tight to make them.
(3) A double flare needs an expensive tool to fabricate. It folds the
flare back in on itself making the flare two wall thicknesses deep. We have
fabricated many 1K+ psi hydraulic and oxygen systems using single flares.
The biggest problem I see in flaring is getting the flare size correct. We
use a Rigid flaring tool that makes nice flares if we leave the tube a
little shy of the clamp edge, which is not where one would naturally set it.
Like torquing, it just takes a few practice runs.
(4) I'm not quite sure what you mean by spacer washers. Large area washers
help spread out the load in soft materials, ie, composites/wood, etc. You
could space a bulkhead fitting back if it helped line up a tube or hose but
there is no general requirement to use them.
If you have questions, feel free to email or call our shop any time. I'd be
glad to get you more information.
Happy Flaring,
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
831-722-9141
Bolting my -10 empennage together
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Ivan,
This is just my understanding and is probably not entirely correct. I
believe that an owner can only request that operations at his airport be
done in a particular way, but there is no particular way to enforce these
requests other than not allowing violators access (the owner obviously has
the authority to do that). In general, traffic pattern policy at any
airport is just a recommendation and a statement general policy at that
airport. Done for reasons of safety and or noise abatement they allow for
everyone to be on the same page. However, the pilot has the ultimate
responsibility for safety and deviations from the standard are OK when the
conditions dictate.
I thought that noise abatement was voluntary, but one of our local airports
has found a way to send you a ticket if your plane is louder than certain
levels as measured by sensors in the departure path. So that shows you what
I know.
Dave Leonard
On 11/28/05, H.Ivan Haecker <baremetl@gvtc.com> wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl@gvtc.com>
>
> The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you.
>
> The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to
> keep traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will
> be right-handed (non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on
> the subject are:
>
> 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic
> pattern?
>
> 2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many
> open-to the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional
> charts for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a
> Sectional chart for private runways.
>
> 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem
> appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on
> the ground when you land!)
>
> Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything.
> I am just interested.
>
> Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 19:18:14 2005-11-28 "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl@gvtc.com> wrote:
> 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic
> pattern?
Legally? Maybe not. But practically, he can raise a lot of trouble for
you if you don't follow the procedures. Do you need prior permission to
fly into a private strip? If so, then he can easily claim you don't have
it, and get you violated for that.
> 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem
> appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people
> on the ground when you land!)
In Canada, you can't just fly any pattern you want to. If it's
uncontrolled, and largely inactive, it's unlikely anyone will see you if
you choose to do something contrary to local policy. But be forewarned
that if you do, you risk aggravating whoever or whatever is located on the
upwind side of the airport. If it's a housing development, and the airport
owner has made a voluntary agreement to try and abate noise by keeping the
circuit to one side, and if you make it your mission to fly on the wrong
side, you can expect the owners to make it their mission to close the
strip. This will make you very unpopular with the airstrip owner and the
other users of the strip.
There is nothing unsafe about a right-hand pattern at an uncontrolled field
where this pattern is the standard procedure. My home airport also has all
circuits to one side, and it works very very well. All approaches are from
one side at circuit altitude. You do your wind check at midfield, and
choose the downwind (left or right) at that point. In some ways, it makes
it simpler because you don't need to overfly or circle around waiting for
someone to make a radio call in order to figure out what the wind is doing
first.
> Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over
> anything. I am just interested.
Not to offend, but the way the questions were worded to gave me the
impression that someone you know is one of those "i'll do whatever I damn
well please" types, who won't listen to local rules (or to reason). I hope
someone answers with some more definitive answers with respect to the regs.
-Rob
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