---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/29/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - Hey Guys... (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:23 AM - Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (Ron Lee) 3. 05:30 AM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Ron Lee) 4. 06:23 AM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (James Clark) 5. 06:35 AM - Re: Double Flaring tubing was AN fittings basic info (Charlie Kuss) 6. 08:29 AM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (Mark & Lisa) 7. 08:52 AM - Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (Glen Matejcek) 8. 09:05 AM - AN fittings basic info (Glen Matejcek) 9. 11:36 AM - Re: AN fittings basic info (wgill10@comcast.net) 10. 01:29 PM - Re: AN fittings basic info (Chris W) 11. 03:14 PM - Proper torque for Hartzell bolts through spinner backplate (czechsix@juno.com) 12. 03:54 PM - Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports (Tim Bryan) 13. 03:55 PM - RV-6 kit for sale (Doug Weiler) 14. 07:42 PM - Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT (sportav8r@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:07 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Hey Guys... --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hey guys, wow, I can't believe all the really nice comments I've been getting about how much you appreciate and enjoy the Lists. I really appreciate your positive feedback and support. I've included below a bunch more of the awesome feedback I've received in the last week or so. Please read over some of these great comments. It is really quite amazing... There are just a couple more days left during this year's Fund Raiser and your chance to get one of the really great gifts. If you been putting off making a Contribution, now's your chance to support these Lists *and* pinch an awesome free gift too! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution already. It is much appreciated! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle List Admininstrator ----------------------- Lister Comments ----------------------- The Archives Search Engine is usually the first place I turn to when I run into a building question or problem I need to resolve. Christopher H. I look forward so much to reading the list digest every night that my wife thinks I'm getting obsessed. Thomas S. It's also the way I start my day. A cup of coffee and I'm at my computer to read the Lists. I look forward to it. I've learned so much. James B. It is the best way to stay in contact with other builders and flyers. Charles G. Very good info and very interesting people. Rodney B. The List is a great resource for me while building. Brice B. Great stuff - keep it going. Mark H. This list is just amazing! Reginald D. Very grateful for he RV List. John S. I would have NEVER attempted to build a Piet if I had not found this List. Rob B. It is helpful as well as entertaining. David P. ...invaluable to me in my decision to purchase a CJ-6. Valerie W. A great tool and service to the Aviation Community. William C. While I haven't learned enough to contribute to other very often, I have learned enough to avoid some mistakes in building my kit. Cl M. Enjoy this Zenith List. First thing upon waking. Bob W. These forums for builders/owners to exchange ideas and experiences is one of the main bonds that keep this hobby intact. Bob R. The Matronics list are very helpful and dependable. John R. Best of all, NO SPAM. Lothar K. Thanks for the GREAT things you do for RVs! Reed U. Your site's invaluable and very much appreciated. Larry M. Not building yet but when I do I want this site to still be here. Mike T. Truly made me a better pilot and owner. Paul P. The list is an essential part of our lives. Don P. The service you provide is invaluable to me and all of the many list members. Brian A. Matronics lists are the best on the Internet. Bar none! George A. Thanks for the work you do keeping this list clean and productive. Dee Y. A great service. Jim C. Being close to completion of my 6A, I can credit the List for helping me all along the way. Jeff O. Couldn't have done it without the LIST! Thomas E. Your list has been very helpful and informative during [the building] process. Gary S. Keeps us informed and safer. Cedric S. Another outstanding year of service. Terry W. The List is great! Brett H. Great home building resources. Charles K. I am glad you are there. Michael L. The List has been an invaluable assist in the building process. I can't imagine not having it. Arthur L. Invaluable service! Ford F. I have enjoyed the many views and ideas (and wit) of the contributions over the years... Noel G. I have found the list to contain many informative items from real life experience. Walt M. A great service and resource for the experimental aircraft community. Christopher H. A great list for a great little airplane! Graham H. I have learned a lot just by reading other's posts. Thomas B. Very helpful! Ken L. The list is great! Kevin B. I have learned a great deal from the postings to your Lists. Bob S. Good info and good people!!! Jerry B. A great resource. Sal C. I've "met" some great people here and have been helped a lot. Tommy W. These Lists are my main resource and means of communicating with other builders. Brian A. I use the List everyday! I'd feel guilty all year if I didn't contribute. Brian U. It has helped me be a better builder and put me in touch with some real fine people. Bruce B. A great list!!! Rupert T. ...invaluable help to many builders. Jonathan R. Great list, I'm still trying to decide, and the List provides great information. Maarten V. Your web sites provide me with an important connection to invaluable technical resources plus feedback and motivation to continue the build process. Douglas D. A great resource and contribution to safety. Donald K. A great service. Richard R. It has been a source for a lot of useful information over the many years I have been on the list. Jerry S. I really enjoy the positive spirit and exchange via your List. Richard R. The List has been a great help on several occasions... Harry C. Great List! Reginald D. The knowledge and support that I have received from your members was worth more that my contribution. Valerie W. It has also been a source of great entertainment at times. Jerry S. ...always a source of amusement. Harry C. I'm still under construction and the list has helped me avoid many problems. Rupert T. ----------------------- Lister Comments ----------------------- Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:08 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee That is the normal procedure at my airport. Left for Runway 15 and right for runway 33. It is not a problem. I suggest using the recommended pattern regardless and announce your intentions so everyone remains safe. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:57 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee Hey Stormy, I just did this in my 6A. With a GNS 430 I did VOR, ILS and GPS approaches. No stinkin ADF! I used the Gleim CD for the course work then borrowed a King CD. I probably would have gotten about 90-92% with just the Gleim but the King bumped me up to 97%. I got a lot from the King CD (or DVD now?) that you don't get just reading questions. I took the written test after I was almost done with the flying. Not a problem. I have not taken the practical yet because of a vacuum issue that needs to be fixed. Just be sure to find a good instructor who doesn't yell. yelling is counterproductive. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:03 AM PST US From: James Clark Subject: Re: RV-List: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT --> RV-List message posted by: James Clark Ron, Just curious ... What numbers/power settings do you use in the different phases of flight in the 6A? I am doing a numbers "work up" now with a 6 and was wondering what works for others. For example: (I *think* this is what I am settling on) Enroute cruise 25" MP (with a fixed pitch prop) "Terminal Area"/ Maneuvering 20" Established on localizer 15" and trim for level FAF 12.5" Middle Marker: Full idle. Runway environ in sight hold alt + full flaps and land No runway, go missed I am giving this as an example before having adequate coffee so it could ALL be wrong. Just curious. Thanks, James p.s. STORMY ... There are flight models available for the RV as well with MS Flight Sim On 11/29/05, Ron Lee wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee > > Hey Stormy, I just did this in my 6A. With a GNS 430 I did VOR, ILS > and GPS approaches. No stinkin ADF! > > I used the Gleim CD for the course work then borrowed a King CD. I > probably would have gotten about 90-92% with just the Gleim but the King > bumped me up to 97%. I got a lot from the King CD (or DVD now?) > that you don't get just reading questions. > > I took the written test after I was almost done with the flying. Not a > problem. I have not taken the practical yet because of a vacuum > issue that needs to be fixed. > > Just be sure to find a good instructor who doesn't yell. yelling is > counterproductive. > > Ron Lee > > -- This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:15 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Double Flaring tubing was AN fittings basic info --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss At 08:40 PM 11/28/2005, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve > >erichweaver@cox.net wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: > > > >Howdy > > > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a > few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > > >(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread > portions of fittings, correct? > > > >(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on > flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use > a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would > prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without > measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to > installation instructions at > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which > talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to > bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to > turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare > being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of > "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? > > > >(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing > with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? > > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are > used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both > sides or just one? > > > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > >Erich Weaver > > > > > > > > >Excellent questions Erich! You won't learn if you don't ask questions. >Since most of the other questions have been answered, I'll tackle #3. A >double flare is formed using a really spiffy tool. The end of the tube >is folded back into the flare which gives the flare double thickness. >Read extra strength. The small diameter tubing just doesn't have much >material to work with if you are only doing a single flare. I found this >picture which should help explain. >http://www.phi-tulip.com/images/flaredr.gif >Happy building >Mark Eric, I'm with Mark regarding the use of double flares. Flaring stretches the aluminum tubing. It is stretched the most at the lip. This means that the lip is where the material is now severely thinned. The aluminum is also work hardened during this process. The combination of work hardening and thinning the material invites cracks to form on the flare. As shown in the link Mark provided, the double flare folds the edge of the flare over. This effectively doubles the thickness of the end of the flare. It also leaves the edge as a 180 degree bend, rather than an edge. This is what makes the double flare superior. FYI The US Department of Transportation mandates that auto makers use ONLY double flares on the brake lines of all automobiles sold in the US. Your auto mechanic is also forbidden to make any repairs that do not also use double flares. The dilemma for most builders is the cost of aviation double flaring tools. The price for the one I purchased recently jumped from $400 to almost $700. See http://www.usatco.com/tubing_tools_01.asp I managed to find a brand new unit on EBay last year for $130, after a 2 month search. This is the type of tool that is best purchased by an EAA Chapter or local RV builders group, for use by the membership. That makes it cost effective for each user. This tool is a joy to use. It does not mark or damage the tubing at the clamping point below the flare. If you have any A&P friends, I suggest that you contact them to see if anyone owns a unit you can borrow. Regarding your first question, I apply Never Seize to the threaded area of the male end of flare fittings. This is not required. AN fittings are anodized to prevent galling of the 2 parts. However, my experience is that if you live in a corrosive environment or if you tend to over tighten the fittings, Never Seize (a trade name for generic anti-seize compound) makes future disassembly easier. It also gives you a better chance to tighten up a leaking fitting at a later date, as it reduces the "start up" torque required to get the B nut to start moving again. The fluid fitting tightening method described in the web link above is an acceptable alternative to using a torque wrench on the fittings. As mentioned earlier by another lister, use of a crows foot wrench with a torque wrench allows you to torque the fittings. Another alternate method is to simply torque a test fitting in a vice. Draw a line across the two fittings once they are torqued. Now loosen the fittings and re-tighten the fittings using a tubing or open end wrench till the lines you have previously drawn, line up. Remember the amount of effort which was required to re-tighten the B nut. Tighten your fittings to this same amount. You can easily approximate the torque required from muscle memory. It is best to stick to the recommended torque initially. You may need to go back later and apply slightly more torque later, to correct a leaking fitting. If the fitting still leaks, don't just keep tightening. The message you should get from that situation is: There is something wrong with the flare. I need to disassemble the joint and inspect it for cracks or foreign debris contamination. When spacer washers are required, I generally install the spacer under the nut end of the fitting. This allows the spacer to protect the material being penetrated from being scarred by the rotating nut. General rule of thumb is to always hold the fitting and tighten by rotating the nut. This applies to general hardware, as well as hydraulic fittings. Charlie Kuss PS Subject line changed to allow easier future archive searching. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:42 AM PST US From: "Mark & Lisa" Subject: RV-List: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark & Lisa" Stormy, I suggest you find someone that's currently training for their instrument rating and ask to sit in the back seat and watch. Alternatively, find a couple of intrument-rated friends and volunteer to provide safety pilot services. In my opinion you can learn more about procedures from watching someone else (especially another student getting instruction) than you can while you're flying the plane. Learning to control the aircraft is the easy part for most, learning all the procedures (when to start the checklist, when to make the radio call, etc.) while learning to control the aircraft is really hard, especially if you've no prior exposure to the IFR environment. Regards, Mark & Lisa Sletten Legacy FG N828LM http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:08 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" >Time: 07:19:23 PM PST US >From: "H.Ivan Haecker" >Subject: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports >--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > >The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. > >The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep >traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed >(non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject >are: > >1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? > >2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to >the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts >for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart >for private runways. > >3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate >(albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when >you land!) > >Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. I am >just interested. > >Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX > Hi Ivan- Those are good questions, and you got me to thinking about the fine print of the situation. So much so, that I looked up the relevant (and some not so relevant) references to see what guidance I could find. First, FAR 1.1 says that "Traffic Pattern means the traffic flow that is prescribed for aircraft landing at, taxiing on, or taking off from, an airport." Note there is no mention of who writes the prescription, limits on what kind of airport it applies to, and that it also includes ground movement. Next, WRT noise abatement, AIM 4-3-6 (b) states "Airport proprietors are responsible for taking the lead in local aviation noise control. Accordingly, they may propose specific noise abatement plans to the FAA. If approved, these plans are applied in the form of Formal or Informal Runway Use Programs for noise abatement purposes." Now, yes, I do realize that the AIM is not regulatory. There is some fine print to add to that concept, tho- First, the AIM is the considered opinion of the FAA. If you operate contrary to this opinion, then the feds are liable to consider you 'careless and reckless', their generic violation of FAR 91.13. The next caveat comes into play should you find yourself in a court room. It seems that there is a concept (I forget it's proper name) in law wherein an acknowledged expert in a given field can speak the gospel. In this scenario, the courts accept that the FAA is an acknowledged expert, and if they say you should operate in a certain manner, the court will go along with that. The bottom line is that in the cockpit the AIM is not regulatory, but once you get into a court room, it is. FAR 91.103 states"Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight...", so lack of familiarity with the local traffic pattern is not acceptable, as long as that info is available. Also, FAR 91.126(b)(1) [Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class G airspace] states "Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right..." As I read it, your airport proprietor in question can require right traffic, but that needs to be visibly displayed to inbound traffic. Then again, a private field doesn't need to comply with all the fed standards, hence the 'use at your own risk' notations. FAR 91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class E airspace says, in part, "....must comply with the requirements of para 91.126." So, as I read it all, the airport proprietor can mandate non standard patterns, but that information needs to be available to the pilot group. Once those requirements are met, compliance isn't optional. I hope that this was of some use to my fellow listers- Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:09 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: AN fittings basic info --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" >Howdy > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions >after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there >a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > >Erich Weaver Howdy y'own self! If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinness of the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the specs for aluminum fittings? Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:22 AM PST US From: wgill10@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: AN fittings basic info --> RV-List message posted by: wgill10@comcast.net Enter AC65-9A into Google...then select the 8th or 9th link down on the list...then select chaper 5...then look at the table at the top of page 117 (page numbers on the bottom of the PDF pages). There, you will find the torque values for both aluminum and steel fittings. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > > >Howdy > > > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few > questions > >after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > > > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. > I there > >a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? > > > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > >Erich Weaver > > > Howdy y'own self! > > If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you > wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinness of > the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a > spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. > > WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I > noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the > specs for aluminum fittings? > > > Glen Matejcek > aerobubba@earthlink.net > > > > > > Enter AC65-9A into Google...then select the 8th or 9th link down on the list...then select chaper 5...then look at the table at the top of page 117 (page numbers on the bottom of the PDF pages). There, you will find the torque values for both aluminum and steel fittings. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Howdy Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. Erich Weaver Howdy y'own self! If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinn ess of the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the specs for aluminum fittings? Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net m, and ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:17 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: AN fittings basic info --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Glen Matejcek wrote: >WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I >noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the >specs for aluminum fittings? > > I don't know why they never mention aluminum fittings. There are only 2 reasons that I can think of that would make it any different for aluminum. One, is if the aluminum threads can't handle the stress of being that tight. I haven't read any specs on the strength of brass but I would think that a high quality aluminum alloy would be as strong as brass, so if the brass are strong enough, I would think the aluminum would be too. Two, would be if aluminum tend to gall, I understand the anodizing on the AN fittings is to help prevent that, a little bit of anti seize lube wouldn't hurt either, I know they recommend it on stainless steel as well. For those who don't know, galling is when two pieces of metal rub together under very high pressure and the friction causes the surfaces to tare out little chucks of metal. Not good! I did find one site that mentions aluminum and just says to put some anti seize on the fittings. It also says that the torque method is preferred over FFFT but Parker contradicts that and I go with Parker on that one, it just makes more sense to me. http://www.interactmultimedia.com/airway/tightening.htm -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:02 PM PST US From: "czechsix@juno.com" Subject: RV-List: Proper torque for Hartzell bolts through spinner backplate --> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" Guys, I thought I'd pass this along for those of you with Hartzell props.... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection (and subsequent first flight in the dead of winter in Iowa....Ugh!) "Ryan, Kevin" wrote on 11/29/2005 04:06:02 PM: > Mark: > > I was intriqued by your question, so I asked our "nuts & bolts" engineer > here at Hartzell. He informed me that the rolling torque or "drag" between > the nut and the bolt as the nut is tightened is accounted for when the > torque specifications are calculated. It is not necessary, therefore, to add > the torque caused by the drag between the nut and the bolt to the specified > torque. 20-22 ft-lbs is sufficient for these nuts. You can simply back the > nuts off and apply to proper torque (20-22 ft-lbs). > > If you have any additional questions, or if I can be of further assistance, > please feel free to contact me at your convenience. > > Regards, > > Kevin M. Ryan > Product Support Representative > Hartzell Propeller Inc. > Phone: 937.778.4379 > Fax: 937.778.4391 > Email: techsupport@hartzellprop.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: menavrat@rockwellcollins.com [mailto:menavrat@rockwellcollins.com] > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:03 PM > To: Huelsman, Brad > Subject: bolt torque question > > Hi Brad, > > Over the weekend I installed the aft spinner bulkhead on my Hartzell prop > using the bolts that go through the hub at the root of each blade. The > Hartzell manual calls out 20-22 ft lbs for the torque on these bolts. I > believe it's standard practice to add the torque required to turn the lock > nut to this value. I measured approx 9 ft lbs of torque required to turn > the locknut before it contacted the hub so I added this to the spec and set > the wrench for 30 ft lbs. Just wanted to confirm that this is correct so > that I don't damage anything....? > > Thanks, > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection... Guys, IthoughtI'dpassthisalongforthoseofyouwithHartzellprops.... --MarkNavratil CedarRapids,Iowa RV-8AN2Dalmostreadyforfinalinspection(andsubsequentfirstflightin thedeadofwinterinIowa....Ugh!) "Ryan,Kevin"kryan@HartzellProp.comwroteon11/29/200504:06:02PM: Mark: Iwasintriquedbyyourquestion,soIaskedour"nutsbolts"engineer hereatHartzell.Heinformedmethattherollingtorqueor"drag" between thenutandtheboltasthenutistightenedisaccountedforwhenthe torquespecificationsarecalculated.Itisnotnecessary,therefore,to add thetorquecausedbythedragbetweenthenutandthebolttothe specified torque.20-22ft-lbsissufficientforthesenuts.Youcansimplyback the nutsoffandapplytopropertorque(20-22ft-lbs). Ifyouhaveanyadditionalquestions,orifIcanbeoffurther assistance, pleasefeelfreetocontactmeatyourconvenience. Regards, KevinM.Ryan ProductSupportRepresentative HartzellPropellerInc. Phone:937.778.4379 Fax:937.778.4391 Email:techsupport@hartzellprop.com -----OriginalMessage----- From:menavrat@rockwellcollins.com[mailto:menavrat@rockwellcollins.com] Sent:Monday,November28,20054:03PM To:Huelsman,Brad Subject:bolttorquequestion HiBrad, OvertheweekendIinstalledtheaftspinnerbulkheadonmyHartzellprop usingtheboltsthatgothroughthehubattherootofeachblade.The Hartzellmanualcallsout20-22ftlbsforthetorqueonthesebolts.I believeit'sstandardpracticetoaddthetorquerequiredtoturnthe lock nuttothisvalue.Imeasuredapprox9ftlbsoftorquerequiredtoturn thelocknutbeforeitcontactedthehubsoIaddedthistothespecand set thewrenchfor30ftlbs.Justwantedtoconfirmthatthisiscorrectso thatIdon'tdamageanything....? Thanks, --MarkNavratil CedarRapids,Iowa RV-8AN2Dalmostreadyforfinalinspection... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:31 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" There has been several other posts with good info but to add to it. When a private airport is reported to the FAA, the traffic pattern needs to be identified. This is then either responded to by the FAA as an objection or no objection. It goes on file in the FAA office as having a specific traffic pattern. The identifier is issued if it is "no objection" This is the airspace they consider to be protected. Weather they have any enforcement of that or not, - I doubt it. Tim -------Original Message------- From: H.Ivan Haecker Subject: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed (non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject are: 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? 2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart for private runways. 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when you land!) Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything I am just interested. Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:13 PM PST US From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: RV-List: RV-6 kit for sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" Fellow Listers: I am posting this for a friend (Larry Groom). If you are interested, please contact him directly. Thanks Doug Weiler pres, MN wing --------------------- ...I have the tail kit (horizontal stab, vertical stab and right elevator are complete) along with the pre-punched wing kit and prebuilt anodized spars.... Larry Groom 952-492-3922 lgroom@frontiernet.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:06 PM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com Thanks to eveeryone who took the time to respond, on and off-list. I'm sifting through the options and opinions now. Got my homework cut out for me, certainly. This list is GREAT! -Stormy