---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/15/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: Paint vs decals (Jim Brown) 2. 07:09 AM - Re: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge (Bob C.) 3. 07:16 AM - Re: Paint vs decals (Kosta Lewis) 4. 07:54 AM - BaronRose Design Website Sale (Stephanie Marshall) 5. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: Paint vs decals (linn walters) 6. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Paint vs decals () 7. 12:50 PM - Holiday Greetings (Tom Gummo) 8. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Paint vs decals (Alan & Linda Daniels) 9. 02:23 PM - Re: VNY FSDO weirdness - (partial) Resolution (BK) 10. 02:55 PM - Re: Jack Norris Propeller book (cecilth@juno.com) 11. 03:00 PM - Garmin GTX-327 pricing (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 12. 04:48 PM - Re: Paint vs decals (scott bilinski) 13. 06:40 PM - Re: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge (dick martin) 14. 06:49 PM - Re: Paint vs decals (dick martin) 15. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Paint vs decals (Dave Nellis) 16. 07:58 PM - Re: Garmin GTX-327 pricing (Bob C.) 17. 11:01 PM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:12 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Brown Larry We have vinyl decals that were installed on a composite airplane in 2000.They look as good today as when they were installed. The plane is hanagered. We have flown in rain, and at 600 + hours on the a/c there is no peeling of the vinyl. I would do it again. Jim Brown RV 7A flying, 36 hrs. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:55 AM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " Mauri, Please let us know what you think after you receive them . . . will two do the job? . . . how do you plan to mount them? Thanks, Bob Christensen RV-8 Bldr - SE Iowa On 12/14/05, Mauri Morin wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mauri Morin" > > Check this out: > > http://www.guden.com/display-chh.asp > > They have a very liberal sample policy. I requested two (2) of the > aluminum > ones and I had them in a couple of days. > > Mauri > RV-8 Fuse > Polson, MT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Rice" > To: > Subject: RV-List: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Rice" > > > > Hi all, > > > > I remember reading something about a hidden baggage door hinge for the > > RV8. > > Can anyone lead me to the sight I saw this or have the planes for the > > needed > > parts. > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > RV8QB Fuselage > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 AM PST US From: "Kosta Lewis" Subject: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" >What I have found in my research is the stick-on ones are fine but you will >feel a sharp edge. After looking at RVs around I have decided that I will >pay the extra to have everything painted on. I really don't like the hard >sharp edges on vinyl decals. You will have a sharp edge with paint also as most trim is going to have to be masked off unless it is hand painted, like the old pinstripes. The edge may not be has high as vinyl but still there. It can actually be a higher edge as the paint can "pool" along a mask line, especially at the bottom of a stripe. And the paint edge won't be as visibly sharp either as some paint will leak under the tape. I know of one builder who masked off where he was painting trim when he put on the main color so there wouldn't be an edge. That took some doing. A little obsessive-compulsive, perhaps. I don't think anyone will notice the edge of the vinyl and if they do and don't like it, have them go look at someone else's airplane. No one has ever mentioned my vinyl edges. I have had people get close and ask if they are vinyl, not being able to tell the difference, even close up. >I am even having my nose art painted on. I would do that as vinyl may not be as detailed, depending on the scheme. Suzie Q has vinyl letters and "stars and bars" that were obtained at the local sign shop 7 years ago and shown no signs of wear. Didn't know what "high end vinyl" was at the time so am not sure what I got, though it was 3M something. They are also black, which means they are going to absorb more heat/light than a lighter color. She is hangared, however, but is exposed to OSH weather for 2 weeks every year and all the wear and tear of normal flying and occasional times on the tie down line. I would have invasion stripes painted and consider vinyl for the other. Vinyl masks for the trim is also handier than tedious (expensive) masking masking masking. IMHO Michael ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:24 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: BaronRose Design Website Sale From: "Stephanie Marshall" 1.76 HTML_TAG_EXIST_MARQUEE BODY": rv-list@matronics.com --> RV-List message posted by: "Stephanie Marshall" Hey Everyone, With the end of the year approaching we are offering a website design sale. We are a team of professionals with over 6 years of experience in web site design and development, graphic design, search engine optimization and corporate branding for small businesses and organizations. Complete design or re-design of up to 6 pages for $300. This is a great way to show off your plane and share your project with the world. Check out some of my current projects at: http://www.baronrose.4t.com Cheers, Stephanie Marshall smarshall@enid.org 580-234-0400 X-3030 w ww.rv-8a.4t.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:35 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Kosta Lewis wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" > > > > >>What I have found in my research is the stick-on ones are fine but you >> >> >will > > >>feel a sharp edge. After looking at RVs around I have decided that I >> >> >will >pay the extra to have everything painted on. I really don't like >the hard >sharp edges on vinyl decals. > >You will have a sharp edge with paint also as most trim is going to have >to be masked off unless it is hand painted, like the old pinstripes. The >edge may not be has high as vinyl but still there. It can actually be a >higher edge as the paint can "pool" along a mask line, especially at the >bottom of a stripe. And the paint edge won't be as visibly sharp either >as some paint will leak under the tape. I know of one builder who masked >off where he was painting trim when he put on the main color so there >wouldn't be an edge. That took some doing. A little >obsessive-compulsive, perhaps. I don't think anyone will notice the edge >of the vinyl and if they do and don't like it, have them go look at >someone else's airplane. No one has ever mentioned my vinyl edges. I >have had people get close and ask if they are vinyl, not being able to >tell the difference, even close up. > One way to 'soften' the painted edge is to pull the tape after a couple of hours. Pull the tape back over itself to get a clean edge. The paint will still flow a little ..... or you waited too long. :-P A lot of factory aircraft have vinyl graphics ..... but all vinyl graphics will shrink over time ..... and the glue creates a little 'halo' effect .... for no extra charge! Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:48 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: Very valid points, but I have seen paint jobs on friends RVs and you just can't feel the lines and I like that. I know it will cost more money and time, but hey I am only doing this once! All the best Kirk > > From: "Kosta Lewis" > Date: 2005/12/15 Thu AM 10:15:16 EST > To: > Subject: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" > > > >What I have found in my research is the stick-on ones are fine but you > will > >feel a sharp edge. After looking at RVs around I have decided that I > will >pay the extra to have everything painted on. I really don't like > the hard >sharp edges on vinyl decals. > > You will have a sharp edge with paint also as most trim is going to have > to be masked off unless it is hand painted, like the old pinstripes. The > edge may not be has high as vinyl but still there. It can actually be a > higher edge as the paint can "pool" along a mask line, especially at the > bottom of a stripe. And the paint edge won't be as visibly sharp either > as some paint will leak under the tape. I know of one builder who masked > off where he was painting trim when he put on the main color so there > wouldn't be an edge. That took some doing. A little > obsessive-compulsive, perhaps. I don't think anyone will notice the edge > of the vinyl and if they do and don't like it, have them go look at > someone else's airplane. No one has ever mentioned my vinyl edges. I > have had people get close and ask if they are vinyl, not being able to > tell the difference, even close up. > > >I am even having my nose art painted on. > > I would do that as vinyl may not be as detailed, depending on the > scheme. > > Suzie Q has vinyl letters and "stars and bars" that were obtained at the > local sign shop 7 years ago and shown no signs of wear. Didn't know what > "high end vinyl" was at the time so am not sure what I got, though it > was 3M something. They are also black, which means they are going to > absorb more heat/light than a lighter color. She is hangared, however, > but is exposed to OSH weather for 2 weeks every year and all the wear > and tear of normal flying and occasional times on the tie down line. I > would have invasion stripes painted and consider vinyl for the other. > Vinyl masks for the trim is also handier than tedious (expensive) > masking masking masking. > > IMHO > > Michael > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:06 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: Holiday Greetings "Rocket List" , "RV List" --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" do not archive Rocketters, RVers, Builders, Want-a-bees, and Anybody else, Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR. or Have a happy holiday season. I am off from sunny SoCal to cold snowy New York City. Of course, the bright side is that there is a grandbaby there to spend Christmas with. :-) Jet-Blue is not the rocket but ... Be safe, Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:45 PM PST US From: Alan & Linda Daniels Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels Only doing it once. Are you kidding. I am working on number 6. Its like a bad addictive drug, only more expensive. Remember that you should not have anything to trip the boundary layer in the first third of the wing, and decal or paint line will trip it. There are tricks to no having a paint that leaves no ridges. You can minimize the ridge by pulling the tape while the paint is still wet allowing the paint to sluff the ridge off. I do this by putting a final fine line tape just over the main masking so I can just pull the that tape without having to unmask the entire area. This eliminates most of the ridge, and then the light sanding before a clear coat helps more. Another trick is after striping on a paint that you are not putting a clear coat on, you can clean the few little spots were paint got under the tape like by a rivet by using a sharpened wood stick if you get it before it cross links. Painting is very time consuming, but is a lot of fun. groves@epix.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > > Very valid points, but I have seen paint jobs on friends RVs and you just can't feel the lines and I like that. I know it will cost more money and time, but hey I am only doing this once! > All the best > Kirk > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:35 PM PST US From: BK Subject: RV-List: RE: VNY FSDO weirdness - (partial) Resolution --> RV-List message posted by: BK Having some experience with fsdo despots I can say the best thing you can do is not back down. If there is no progress, or unacceptable progress, go over their head, go to Region; if that doesnt work go to Flight standards in DC. If they think that they are lowering their political/legal risks by not allowing certain legal operations, tell them what they are doing is actally increasing their legal risks as they are exceeding the limits of their job function which puts them outside of the faa's bubble and into an area where your lawyer can do some damage. They assume you are not informed, or unwilling to push. Trust me, people like this, they will go with their same old story until you let them you you are not *& %(*& around. Sounds like you made some progress. Its a major PITA, they are counting on that, but keep pushing. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Jack Norris Propeller book From: cecilth@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com I have known Jack for many years. I have been to his home a couple times. I have helped him on proofing his book mainly to let him know that he needs to get a little more of the 'laymans language' in some of the chapters. Jack is a very knowledgeable guy and really knows his subject. He tends to 'talk over my head'. My fault, not his. For the last 2 or 3 years he has felt he was near the finish of the book. Bear with him, it will happen. Cecil On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:27:17 -0700 John Huft writes: > --> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > > I just got a letter from Jack Norris. He apologizes for the lateness > of > his book. He is busy. > > He gives a little synopsis of his book still to come, and it is > great. > If the entire book is half as entertaining as this letter, it will > be a > bargain. > > If I remember correctly (unlikely), send him a check for $14.95. > > Jack Norris > 11613 Seminole Circle > Northridge, CA 91326 > > > Randy Lervold wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > > > >I spoke with Jack Norris several times when he was designing the > new > >propeller airfoil for Jim Rust at Whirl Wind (now in use on the > 200RV and > >151). I understood about 20% of what he was talking about, but that > 20% was > >very educational. He told me he was writing a book but I was > unaware it was > >finished. He's a very interesting guy and of course quite > knowledgable. That > >new airfoil is quite an accomplishment btw. How can one get a copy? > > > >Randy Lervold > >www.rv-3.com > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "RV6 Flyer" > >To: > >Subject: RE: RV-List: Jack Norris Propeller book > > > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" > >> > >>Mickey: > >> > >>Mine also has not arrived. > >> > >>He did not cash the check either. Jack has a good reputation and > I do not > >>think he will take the money and run. I am betting he is behind > on > >>publication and waiting to cash check and send out. > >> > >>Gary A. Sobek > >>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > >>1,800 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > >>http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > >> > >> > >>----Original Message Follows---- > >>From: Mickey Coggins > >>To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: RV-List: Jack Norris Propeller book > >>Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:32:51 +0100 > >> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >> > >>There was a fellow named Jack Norris at Oshkosh handing out > >>fliers for a book he had written about propellers. I ordered > >>one, but I have not received it. Has anyone else ordered and > >>received this book? > >> > >>Thanks, > >>Mickey > >>-- > >>Mickey Coggins > >>http://www.rv8.ch/ > >>#82007 finishing > >> > >> > >>do not archive > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:26 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Garmin GTX-327 pricing From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Anyone know offhand what you can get a Garmin GTX-327 transponder for new or used? I have a chance to pick up a used for $1100 that is yellow tagged but I believe you can get a brand new one of about $1300. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Mid Fuse Bulkheads do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:27 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: scott bilinski You will also have a edge with paint Unless you use a base coat clear coat system. groves@epix.net wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: Hi Larry, I met you this year at Osh right after you got there, you have a great looking plane. I am also painting my 8 with a P-51 scheme with invasion stipes, and from what I have found in my research is the stick on ones are fine but you will feel a sharp edge. After looking at RVs around I have decided that I will pay the extra to have everything painted on, its just personal but I really don't like the hard sharp edges on vinyl decals. I am even having my nose art painted on!(I don't even want to think about the bill) All the Best, Kirk Groves "Dakota Queen" finishing > > From: "Larry Bowen" > Date: 2005/12/14 Wed PM 01:01:26 EST > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Paint vs decals > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > I visited the local paint shop to inquire about painting my RV-8. I'm > going to go with a modified 8th Air Force, stars and bars, invasion > stripes, Mustang sort of scheme. The painter said he could paint the > stars/bars emblems and this would be much better than decals as they wear > and weather too easily. (Uh, OK...he does this for a living so he > probably knows more than me on the topic. He wants me to give him > dimensions for the emblems so he can have stencils made. I don't have > these demensions...) > > Anyway, are modern day vinyl decals that fragile? I thought either route > was fine, and decals win out due to the convienence. Thoughts? > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry@BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski RV-8a cell 858-395-5094 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:39 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge --> RV-List message posted by: "dick martin" Paul, The type hinge you need is a standard hardware item. It will have an (hard to describe) offset leaf and a straight leaf. You will be able to buy them from McMaster/Carr a large mail order industrial supplier. You should be able to find them on the web by typing in the above name. I used this type hinge on my aluminum oil access door. I didn't like the crude look of Vans oil door with cam locks and hinges sticking out all over on that nice smooth cowl. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rice" Subject: RV-List: RV8 Baggage Door Hinge > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Rice" > > Hi all, > > I remember reading something about a hidden baggage door hinge for the > RV8. > Can anyone lead me to the sight I saw this or have the planes for the > needed > parts. > > Thanks > > Paul > RV8QB Fuselage > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:13 PM PST US From: "dick martin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: "dick martin" Larry, I have on my RV8, polished aluminum, Decals. I used them originally because I was not sure what scheme I wanted. I am now on my second set in 1250 hours flying time. I was to aggressive with the first set when polishing the aluminum and polished the ink off of the decals. Now , I polish by hand next to the art work and that works fine. No decal wear and it looks good. I took a picture to my local sign company of the emblem I wanted and they digitized it an made decals that nicely fit the size of the airplane. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RV-List: Paint vs decals > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > I visited the local paint shop to inquire about painting my RV-8. I'm > going to go with a modified 8th Air Force, stars and bars, invasion > stripes, Mustang sort of scheme. The painter said he could paint the > stars/bars emblems and this would be much better than decals as they wear > and weather too easily. (Uh, OK...he does this for a living so he > probably knows more than me on the topic. He wants me to give him > dimensions for the emblems so he can have stencils made. I don't have > these demensions...) > > Anyway, are modern day vinyl decals that fragile? I thought either route > was fine, and decals win out due to the convienence. Thoughts? > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry@BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:15 PM PST US From: Dave Nellis Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Paint vs decals --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis For what its worth, having been a radio control modeler for many years, I have used this little procedure for decals. After applying a decal or decals (most of which there glue is dissolved by fuel/oil), take a fine hair paint brush about 1/16" and use a clear coat of the paint system you are using, and paint the clear all the way around the decal. This will seal the decal preventing a frayed edge and shrinkage. YMMV Dave --- linn walters wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > > Kosta Lewis wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" > > > > > > > > > > >>What I have found in my research is the stick-on > ones are fine but you > >> > >> > >will > > > > > >>feel a sharp edge. After looking at RVs around I > have decided that I > >> > >> > >will >pay the extra to have everything painted on. > I really don't like > >the hard >sharp edges on vinyl decals. > > > >You will have a sharp edge with paint also as most > trim is going to have > >to be masked off unless it is hand painted, like > the old pinstripes. The > >edge may not be has high as vinyl but still there. > It can actually be a > >higher edge as the paint can "pool" along a mask > line, especially at the > >bottom of a stripe. And the paint edge won't be as > visibly sharp either > >as some paint will leak under the tape. I know of > one builder who masked > >off where he was painting trim when he put on the > main color so there > >wouldn't be an edge. That took some doing. A little > >obsessive-compulsive, perhaps. I don't think anyone > will notice the edge > >of the vinyl and if they do and don't like it, have > them go look at > >someone else's airplane. No one has ever mentioned > my vinyl edges. I > >have had people get close and ask if they are > vinyl, not being able to > >tell the difference, even close up. > > > One way to 'soften' the painted edge is to pull the > tape after a couple > of hours. Pull the tape back over itself to get a > clean edge. The > paint will still flow a little ..... or you waited > too long. :-P > > A lot of factory aircraft have vinyl graphics ..... > but all vinyl > graphics will shrink over time ..... and the glue > creates a little > 'halo' effect .... for no extra charge! > Linn > do not archive > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:17 PM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin GTX-327 pricing --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " I paid $1,450 +$70 for wiring harness for a new one last February. I had shopped around and thought it to be a fairly good price. Good Luck, Bob Christensen On 12/15/05, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" < > rvbuilder@sausen.net> > > Anyone know offhand what you can get a Garmin GTX-327 transponder for new > or used? I have a chance to pick up a used for $1100 that is yellow tagged > but I believe you can get a brand new one of about $1300. > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Mid Fuse Bulkheads > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:30 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com Listers- For those of you who wish to upgrade from the flammable MIL-H-5606 hydraulic brake fluid to the more flame resistant MIL-PRF-83282, be advised that you can buy a 1 gallon can from ACI at a price of $18.00 plus shipping. It is compatible with all Buna-n (Nitrile) and Viton (Fluorocarbon) seals and the old 5606 fluid can be drained and the system refilled with 83282 without extensive flushing. Minimum Flash Point for 83282 is 401 deg F vs 275 deg F for 5606. The MIL-Spec and the QPL can be had at: _http://assist2.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/_ (http://assist2.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/) Royal Royco 782 meets the spec and can be ordered from: _http://commerce.acilubes.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=7_ (http://commerce.acilubes.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=7) GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 771hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)