Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:05 AM - RV-7 center section question ()
2. 02:04 AM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Todd Bartrim)
3. 04:36 AM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
4. 05:10 AM - DOT-5 Brake Fluid (Ron Brown)
5. 05:22 AM - FW: RV-4 for sale (Douglas Kohser)
6. 06:12 AM - Re: RV-7 center section question (Bob Collins)
7. 08:06 AM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (linn walters)
8. 08:21 AM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Rob Prior (rv7))
9. 08:49 AM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Dan Checkoway)
10. 09:21 AM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Randy Lervold)
11. 09:23 AM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Ron Lee)
12. 10:32 AM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Bob J)
13. 11:17 AM - [ George McNutt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
14. 12:50 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
15. 01:16 PM - tail wheel and transition training needed (RV6n)
16. 01:18 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Kyle Boatright)
17. 01:58 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Kevin Horton)
18. 02:03 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Rob Prior (rv7))
19. 02:54 PM - Source for : MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Ed Anderson)
20. 04:50 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Jerry Springer)
21. 05:09 PM - Re: tail wheel and transition training needed ()
22. 05:43 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Randy Lervold)
23. 06:41 PM - Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV-7 center section question |
--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
I'm working on the F-704 center section bulkhead of my RV. As I was working
on the cover plate brackets (F782 and F783), I found that the two bottom
holes for the longer of the brackets were obstructed by very large rivets.
There were supposed to be holes there for bolts. Has anyone else
encountered this? Right now, I'm deciding to just cut off the flange of
the bracket to go around the rivet or to drill out the rivet. I don't
relish the idea of the drilling. I have to see what all the brackets
support, first. Maybe the fuel selector? I'll check that out at my next
building session. It seems that's all it was used for in my -6A.
Jim Sears in KY
Message 2
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| Subject: | MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
Last year I switched to ATF, based on info from this list, where it seemed
to have great reviews. Unfortunately due to a way too busy year I never had
time to fly again until early this winter, but first I wanted to put on new
tires and needed to purge the brake system. It was -15C on the day I was
doing this (outside - no hangar) and there was absolutely no way I could get
the ATF to flow in the brake lines. The next day I brought an air compressor
and put a shrader fitting in place of the fluid reservoir vent. It took
120psi of air to finally force the ATF out. I then flushed out the system
using gas-line anti freeze (I have Viton o-rings) then completely flushed it
out with a litre of DOT5. The DOT5 is working great now and I'm sure that
ATF may work great in the south, but for anyone up in the colder
climates(Jim?), I'd recommend avoiding it. Dot5 seems to be working great
though
just my $.02
RV9, 13Bturbo
Todd
Message 3
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| Subject: | Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Frankly Im pissed off to find this out after 25 years. How much fun has
been left on the table all these years? Im really ticked off.
Oh Im sure we will hear from yee ole "it saved a lot of lives' folks.
Bottom line is this little tid bit of information is revolutionary for
every RV owner. AND it might just be the happiest most annoying piece of
information I have ever heard. Its like adding 250# of acro gross weight
to every acro rv built. ARGH!!! I left a lot of fun on the ground over
the years.
I want to give Randy a big kiss for extracting this piece of
information. Then I think Ill just slap him for waiting so long to do
it:) Great work Randy!
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skylor Piper
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
That's absolutely true! However, one would assume that
Van's load calculations are based on both full and
empty fuel tank cases to cover the full range of
loading possibilities...if that's the case, aerobatic
gross + full fuel tanks should not necessarily have
too much impact on the mid span spar loads.
I seem to recall that some speculation of N58RV's
failure centered around the possibility of over G AND
roll input. My memory is suspect, though.
Skylor
--- Kyle Boatright <kboatright1@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
> <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
> The interesting thing here is that Van's has
> published (Via the RVator) that
> the weak point for the RV-4 and RV-6 wing is just
> outboard of the fuel tank.
> I believe the same thing holds true for the RV-7 and
> RV-8 (isn't that where
> the factory RV-8's wing failed?). Fuel in the wing
> tanks does result in
> higher bending moments in the portion of the wing
> outboard of the tank, so
> I'd have assumed that fuel should be considered when
> calculating aerobatic
> weight.
>
> I'm confused.
>
> KB
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | DOT-5 Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
While on the subject of brake fluid;
Does anybody out there have any experience with DOT-5 synthetic brake fluid?
Pros and Cons?
Jim in Kelowna
Jim,
Nearly ALL Velocities use DOT5 since they feature Datsun/Nissan master
cylinders (which won't work with 5606) and MATCO calipers. Some folks have
converted the MATCOs to Clevelands. DOT5 works fine - just a bit expensive
at $30 a quart (NAPA).
Ronnie Brown
N713MR - Velocity RG
Message 5
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| Subject: | FW: RV-4 for sale |
1.43 HTML_TINY_FONT RAW: body contains 1 or 0-point font
--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas Kohser" <dckoh@mindspring.com>
I'm posting this for a friend of a friend. It is located in the Atlanta, GA area.
I'm not sure but there might even be some tools involved. O time on engine
since overhaul. I believe the engine is 160 HP, but not positive. Contact
Jere as listed below for more information.
Douglas Kohser
dckoh@mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jere Rosser
Subject: Charlie,s RV-4
RV-4 airframe 90% completed, overhauled 0-320 with Prince Prop, all VFR instruments,
Panel Mount GPS(Garmin), Transponder with Mode C, Com, and Antennae. All
support equipment included, tech data and etc. Have to sell due to poor health.
$21,000.00. Contact Jere Rosser at 770-592-1943.
What do you think Doug?
Jere
Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
Message 6
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| Subject: | RV-7 center section question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Jim: Doublecheck that you have not inadvertently reversed the forward
center section with the aft center section. At tht spot on the aft center
section, there is a rivet in place. Apologies if you've already done that.
Bob
St. Paul
> brackets were obstructed by very large rivets. There were
> supposed to be holes there for bolts. Has anyone else
> encountered this? Right now, I'm deciding to just cut off
> the flange of
> the bracket to go around the rivet or to drill out the rivet.
> I don't relish the idea of the drilling. I have to see what
> all the brackets support, first. Maybe the fuel selector?
> I'll check that out at my next building session. It seems
> that's all it was used for in my -6A.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
For the most part Bruce. However, brake assemblies have reached the
temperaqture point of failure of the seal on the brake puck, allowing
fluid to leak under pressure (remember that it's constant braking that
causes the heat problem in the first place) which then catches fire. I
like the idea of having a fluid available that has a higher
flash/ignition point ..... it surely is worth investigating. I also
like the idea of ATF that someone mentioned, but don't have any data.
Linn
do not archive
Bruce Gray wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
>Sounds like a brake line issue not a fluid issue.
>
>Bruce
>SS brake lines.
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>>
>>Hey, they're BOTH flamable. One just needs a hotter flame to get started.
>>5606 has been around for decades, it's in most GA airplanes we fly. I
>>haven't seen a rash of brake fires. Why the concern?
>>
>>Bruce
>>www.glasair.org
>>
>>
>>
>Because you haven't been looking!!! Ever since folks started using the
>plastic brake lines, there have been fires .... some that totaled the
>airplane. I know of a Defiant, Long EZ, glasair, and am sure there are
>others. The problem is more prevalent in plastic airplanes (OK, FG)
>with glass gear legs. The problem starts with long taxi requirements
>and a crosswind .... where you're riding one brake and carrying some
>extra power ..... the heat keeps rising and when the plastic rake line
>finally gets hot enough to rupture, the brake assembly is hot enough to
>cause combustion. Problem is, most pilots aren't aware that they have a
>problem because they can't see the brake area from the cockpit. I guess
>after the brake failure, they keep trying to get wherever they're headed
>as the fire gets bigger. Just a guess.
>Linn
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 4:35:32 2005-12-17 "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
wrote:
> Oh Im sure we will hear from yee ole "it saved a lot of lives' folks.
> Bottom line is this little tid bit of information is revolutionary for
> every RV owner. AND it might just be the happiest most annoying piece
> of information I have ever heard. Its like adding 250# of acro gross
> weight to every acro rv built.
This is probably why Van never published this "tidbit" of information.
Because many of the armchair aeronautical engineers on this list, who can
build amazingly beautiful airplanes but don't know a load distribution from
a hole in their backside will immediately assume this means they can carry
an additional 200-250 lb anywhere in the plane when they fly acro. (not
saying this applies to you, Michael, but your wording comes dangerously
close to suggesting that).
With full tanks on an RV, the weight in the tanks will (in a positive-G
manoeuver) lessen the load on the wing attach points, because you've
increased the weight of the wing. However, it will *increase* the load on
the spar just outboard of the fuel tank.
I don't know what control deflection Van assumed when he designed the wing
for G-loading. But if you happen to combine a large aileron deflection
with a full tank, you'll be concentrating the control loads at the inboard
end of the aileron, and the extra weight from your fuel tank at the
outboard end of the tank. I don't have the plans in front of me, but I
seem to recall that the points are pretty close together along the span of
the spar, maybe 1 bay apart? The stress concentration could easily fold
your wing.
If you move some of that 250# into the cabin (so you have some room to take
your light friend with you), you will be increasing the load on the wing
attach points, and decreasing the load on the spar outboard of the tank.
Which again is a good recipe for folding a wing if you screw up a manouever.
Just my $0.02. I will be following Vans' published recommendations for
aerobatic weights.
-Rob Prior
(trained as an Aeronautical Engineer, but not working in that field)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Just my $0.02. I will be following Vans' published recommendations for
> aerobatic weights.
Ditto. I don't necessarily think it's a positive thing that this "new
information" has come to light. It's not a license to abuse your aircraft.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (725 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> As has already been said, the MIL-PRF-83282 fluid is available, higher
> temp
> and fully compatible with systems/seals designed for MIL-H-5606 fluid.
> Read
> the MIL-Spec and the history of the development of the newer fluid with
> the
> Military. This is a no-brainer folks.
Neither Spruce or Van's carry it, anyone know a source?
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Reference the Mobile 1 Synthetic ATF fluid, here is a link to it:
http://tinyurl.com/8wj8q
Data sheet at bottom. I am concerned about the post about a problem
at -15 Deg C. Of course not flying it for several seasons is not ideal
for the plane.
Ron Lee
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J <rocketbob@gmail.com>
If you got the lines to flow at 120psi with compressed air, then still not a
problem with using ATF. Perhaps you had some junk in the system? A friend
of mine was curious to what the brake line pressures were, so he hooked a
tee on the caliper to a pressure gauge. 300psi with someone in the cockpit
pushing as reasonably hard as they could on the brakes. The reason for the
exercise was to check the suitability of nylaflow brake lines, which BTW
also work fine.
I really don't understand why folks want to make it more complicated than it
is.
If the synthetic ATF didn't work in cold climates, I wouldn't think that
there would be many vehicles being driven around in the winter. Your torque
converter wouldn't work, the transmission wouldn't shift, etc.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | [ George McNutt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: George McNutt <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Lists: RV-List,RV7-List
Subject: Roll Bar Shims
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gmcnutt@shaw.ca.12.17.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
License to abuse the plane? How about a license to add 250lbs to all
weights we have been calculating? Seems that is now the case.
Im no design engineer, but the manufacturer just gave me license to add
another major chunk of weight in my fuse. I would say that's a pretty
big deal. Oh, and lets not forget that this for the gross weight also.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Just my $0.02. I will be following Vans' published recommendations
for
> aerobatic weights.
Ditto. I don't necessarily think it's a positive thing that this "new
information" has come to light. It's not a license to abuse your
aircraft.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (725 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | tail wheel and transition training needed |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6n <rv6n@optonline.net>
Thanks to all the wonderful people on this list and all the great information given,
and after six years of building, my RV6 has finally been signed off by the
local DAR. Now I am trying to locate a tail wheel instructor and if possible
the all important transition training. The insurance company requires 10 hours,
some of which must be in a tail wheel RV. I am located at Francis Gabreski
Airport (FOK) on Eastern Long Island, NY. Does anyone have any recommendations
for an instructor, preferably on the East coast NY to Fla., that has access
to an RV. I have not found any on Long Island that are willing to help. I
have zero time in a T/W and only 20 min. 6 years ago in an RV, but just under
500 hours tt.
Thanks in advance.
Bob Bales
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
Adding weight to any airplane, particularly one used for aerobatics is a
serious issue and the subject needs to be addressed very carefully so people
understand that the new information from Van's does not constitute a "Get
out of Jail Free" card.
The original post on this subject didn't say anything about gross weight,
which I believe Van's has stated is driven by the landing gear design.
On the subject of not including fuel in the aerobatic weight. Regardless of
Van's latest disclosure, if you do aerobatics with more fuel aboard than you
used to (or with a passenger if you never carried one during aerobatics),
the structural safety margin will be lower due to the increased bending and
shear loads just outboard of the fuel tank. That point coencides with the
most likely failure point in the wing. It is very possible that people have
gotten away with things in the past (i.e. rolling maneuvers while pulling
serious G's) which they might not get away with if there was an extra 150
lbs of fuel aboard.
Maybe the misunderstanding about including fuel in aerobatic weight is why
there has only been one wing spar failure (IIRC) in the -4, 6, 7, and 8.
Everyone was operating with a safety margin that covered for a multitude of
sins - whether construction mistakes or ham handed pilots.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> License to abuse the plane? How about a license to add 250lbs to all
> weights we have been calculating? Seems that is now the case.
> Im no design engineer, but the manufacturer just gave me license to add
> another major chunk of weight in my fuse. I would say that's a pretty
> big deal. Oh, and lets not forget that this for the gross weight also.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>> Just my $0.02. I will be following Vans' published recommendations
> for
>> aerobatic weights.
>
> Ditto. I don't necessarily think it's a positive thing that this "new
> information" has come to light. It's not a license to abuse your
> aircraft.
>
> do not archive
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (725 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Van had to make a bunch of assumptions when he determined spar
bending loads vs gross weight. He only recommends engines up to the
weight of an Lycoming IO-360, so you can be sure that he assumed the
wing would be supporting no more than that engine, plus a Hartzell,
plus normally expected avionics and instruments. Adding weight in
the fuselage has a much more significant effect on spar bending loads
than adding fuel.
I strongly recommend that anyone who has an engine/prop combination
that is heavier than a counterweighted IO-360 plus Hartzell should
not do aerobatics at greater than 1550 lb gross weight unless they
clear it with Van's.
Kevin Horton
On 17 Dec 2005, at 15:46, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> License to abuse the plane? How about a license to add 250lbs to all
> weights we have been calculating? Seems that is now the case.
> Im no design engineer, but the manufacturer just gave me license to
> add
> another major chunk of weight in my fuse. I would say that's a pretty
> big deal. Oh, and lets not forget that this for the gross weight also.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>> Just my $0.02. I will be following Vans' published recommendations
> for
>> aerobatic weights.
>
> Ditto. I don't necessarily think it's a positive thing that this "new
> information" has come to light. It's not a license to abuse your
> aircraft.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 12:46:18 2005-12-17 "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
wrote:
> License to abuse the plane? How about a license to add 250lbs to all
> weights we have been calculating? Seems that is now the case.
> Im no design engineer, but the manufacturer just gave me license to
> add another major chunk of weight in my fuse. I would say that's a
> pretty big deal. Oh, and lets not forget that this for the gross
> weight also.
This is exactly why armchair engineers should resign themselves to sitting
in their armchairs.
Van's wording, as reported in the original email, says nothing about being
able to add weight to your fuselage, and nothing about increasing overall
gross weight. It definitely does not say that you can add 250lb to all of
the weights you've been calculating.
Van has given you nothing. All you have is the word of someone on the
RV-List who claims to have talked to Van (*), and claims that we can
magically carry full fuel into an aerobatic flight when previously that was
believed to be unwise.
Until you have *in writing from Van*, a statement that you can add 250lb to
your fuselage, or to your wings while doing acro, I suggest that you accept
the numbers you were given when you bought your kit. There is no free
lunch and these airplanes are as safe as they are because people aren't
pushing them to their limits on every flight.
If you want to magically believe that your airplane just got 10% stronger
overnight, that's your decision.
-Rob
* - Not to say that the original poster didn't talk to Van, or that this
wasn't what Van said. Just a word to the wise that you should take
everything you read on the 'net with a grain of salt unless it's backed up
with some proof.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Source for : MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Randy,
Here is the web site where I ordered mine. I could only find it in gallon
quantities $18.00, you may have better luck .
http://commerce.lubes.com/
click Hydraulic Fluids on the menu to the left and you should see Royco
782-1GL Anderol
MIL-PRF-83282
Hydraulic Fluid, 1 Gallon
$18.00
That's the stuff you want - trade name in this case is Royco 782-1G.
Oh, yes, it comes in one of those cans you have to punch a hole in so you
probably want to have a suitable container to put the remainder in after
opening it.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
>> As has already been said, the MIL-PRF-83282 fluid is available, higher
>> temp
>> and fully compatible with systems/seals designed for MIL-H-5606 fluid.
>> Read
>> the MIL-Spec and the history of the development of the newer fluid with
>> the
>> Military. This is a no-brainer folks.
>
> Neither Spruce or Van's carry it, anyone know a source?
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv-3.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Rob Prior (rv7) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
>On 12:46:18 2005-12-17 "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>License to abuse the plane? How about a license to add 250lbs to all
>>weights we have been calculating? Seems that is now the case.
>>Im no design engineer, but the manufacturer just gave me license to
>>add another major chunk of weight in my fuse. I would say that's a
>>pretty big deal. Oh, and lets not forget that this for the gross
>>weight also.
>>
>>
>
>This is exactly why armchair engineers should resign themselves to sitting
>in their armchairs.
>
>Van's wording, as reported in the original email, says nothing about being
>able to add weight to your fuselage, and nothing about increasing overall
>gross weight. It definitely does not say that you can add 250lb to all of
>the weights you've been calculating.
>
>Van has given you nothing. All you have is the word of someone on the
>RV-List who claims to have talked to Van (*), and claims that we can
>magically carry full fuel into an aerobatic flight when previously that was
>believed to be unwise.
>
>Until you have *in writing from Van*, a statement that you can add 250lb to
>your fuselage, or to your wings while doing acro, I suggest that you accept
>the numbers you were given when you bought your kit. There is no free
>lunch and these airplanes are as safe as they are because people aren't
>pushing them to their limits on every flight.
>
>If you want to magically believe that your airplane just got 10% stronger
>overnight, that's your decision.
>
>-Rob
>
>* - Not to say that the original poster didn't talk to Van, or that this
>wasn't what Van said. Just a word to the wise that you should take
>everything you read on the 'net with a grain of salt unless it's backed up
>with some proof.
>
>
Had breakfast with Van this morning and he comfirmed he talked to Randy about it.
His only comment was that he hoped Randy posted it correctly and knowing Randy
I believe he did.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: tail wheel and transition training needed |
--> RV-List message posted by: <groves@epix.net>
Look on Safeairs web site for Jan Bussels, he now has a Trike and a tailwheel
6.
Kirk
>
> From: RV6n <rv6n@optonline.net>
> Date: 2005/12/17 Sat PM 04:10:12 EST
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: tail wheel and transition training needed
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV6n <rv6n@optonline.net>
>
> Thanks to all the wonderful people on this list and all the great information
given, and after six years of building, my RV6 has finally been signed off by
the local DAR. Now I am trying to locate a tail wheel instructor and if possible
the all important transition training. The insurance company requires 10
hours, some of which must be in a tail wheel RV. I am located at Francis Gabreski
Airport (FOK) on Eastern Long Island, NY. Does anyone have any recommendations
for an instructor, preferably on the East coast NY to Fla., that has access
to an RV. I have not found any on Long Island that are willing to help.
I have zero time in a T/W and only 20 min. 6 years ago in an RV, but just under
500 hours tt.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Bob Bales
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> Had breakfast with Van this morning and he comfirmed he talked to Randy
> about it.
> His only comment was that he hoped Randy posted it correctly and knowing
> Randy
> I believe he did.
>
> Jerry
Thanks Jerry. If anyone's curious here's exactly what I said...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595
While I didn't run the exact language by Van I feel confident I have
captured exactly what they meant. Note that there is no mention of any
change to any Normal/Utility gross weight figure for any RV, it ONLY impacts
the Aerobatic gross weight calculation method. Also please note the comments
on the "deleterious effects of weight on aerobatic handling" and "encourages
pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics"
statements.
Randy Lervold
Message 23
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| Subject: | Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Thanks for clearing up the Gross weight issue. I misread your statement.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatic weight calculation. No Fuel?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> Had breakfast with Van this morning and he comfirmed he talked to
Randy
> about it.
> His only comment was that he hoped Randy posted it correctly and
knowing
> Randy
> I believe he did.
>
> Jerry
Thanks Jerry. If anyone's curious here's exactly what I said...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4595
While I didn't run the exact language by Van I feel confident I have
captured exactly what they meant. Note that there is no mention of any
change to any Normal/Utility gross weight figure for any RV, it ONLY
impacts
the Aerobatic gross weight calculation method. Also please note the
comments
on the "deleterious effects of weight on aerobatic handling" and
"encourages
pilots to use good judgement when loading their aircraft for aerobatics"
statements.
Randy Lervold
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