Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 AM - Re: ATF@-15C (Todd Bartrim)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (jhelms@i1.net)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (John Helms)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (John Helms)
6. 07:53 AM - Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
7. 08:11 AM - Re: ATF@-15C (Charlie Kuss)
8. 08:21 AM - Re: DOT-5 Brake Fluid (Charlie Kuss)
9. 09:15 AM - Any San Francisco RV 6,7 or 9's? (Parker Thomas)
10. 10:51 AM - That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... (Gerry Filby)
11. 10:55 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid ()
12. 11:46 AM - Re: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... (Mike Kraus)
13. 12:11 PM - RV-10 Insurance (Robin Marks)
14. 12:32 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (jim)
15. 12:37 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (Dan Beadle)
16. 01:13 PM - RV-8 RC Model (Ken Brooks)
17. 01:14 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (John Helms)
18. 01:26 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (Randall Henderson)
19. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (Mickey Coggins)
20. 01:31 PM - Bending F-718 Longerons (Trevor)
21. 01:43 PM - Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 02:37 PM - Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson)
23. 02:41 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Bill Cary)
24. 02:50 PM - Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson)
25. 02:54 PM - Re: RV-8 RC Model (Dave Nellis)
26. 03:31 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Mickey Coggins)
27. 03:31 PM - Re: RV-8 RC Model (Randy Lervold)
28. 03:51 PM - Re: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think about it? (Chopper 2)
29. 04:04 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Kevin Horton)
30. 04:48 PM - firewall penetration points ()
31. 05:18 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Jamie Painter)
32. 05:29 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson)
33. 05:31 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson)
34. 06:11 PM - Re: firewall penetration points (Tim Olson)
35. 06:16 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (sportav8r@aol.com)
36. 06:49 PM - Off topic FAA user fees (Richard Sipp)
37. 06:51 PM - where are the 10's....? (Evan and Megan Johnson)
38. 07:30 PM - Re: Off topic FAA user fees (Bob Collins)
39. 07:37 PM - Need input (JOHN STARN)
40. 09:54 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Gerry Filby)
41. 10:04 PM - Re: Brake fluid-Skydrol (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
42. 10:28 PM - Modifications, airworthiness and insurance. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
43. 10:35 PM - Re: Re: Brake fluid-Skydrol (Paul Sidey)
44. 10:36 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Paul Sidey)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
Thanks for fielding this one for me Ed, but I should add a few points as
well. First let me say that this was not synthetic ATF. I considered trying
this but had decided that there wasn't enough value in pursuing this
experiment any further, so decided to try DOT5. Second, the ATF did not
freeze up. It was just to thick to purge through the system using my purge
system. (which in the summer will easily purge the brakes system with ATF)
Third, I have no doubt that if I'd actually had the system purged and ready
before it got cold, that I'd have been able to apply plenty of braking
power, but I didn't & I couldn't resulting in a wasted day of great flying
weather (severe clear & cold) and a few choice words.
I've lived in the frozen north all of my life and we learn to live with
the
cold, but hydraulic fluids do not perform well when cold. Sure you can
start up your truck at -35C and drop it in gear & go, but your tranny won't
like it, will shift very poorly and won't last long at all. In the very cold
weather forestry operations are in full speed as the frozen ground aids in
efficient harvesting, but heavy equipment is not shut down at all due to the
hydraulic oil becoming cold. Machines will run for months at a time and
breakdowns are handled very quickly and efficiently to get things up and
warm again.
few posts on "ATF as brake fluid" & "DOT-5 Brake Fluid" It's probably the
best info I've seen posted on this list regarding the different types of
brake fluids.
Todd
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: jhelms@i1.net
You're wrong, and you're talking about two completely different things.
First, the FAA has absolutely nothing to do with insurance companies. The
insurance company requirements on lots of things are more restrictive than
the FAA because all the FAA has to do is sweep up the parts of your plane
and you and put them in a box. The insurance company has to pay for it,
and up to $1 Million (or whatever upper limit you purchase) for whatever
you might hit with it.
You are right though, in that their option is to not insure experimentals
at all. With only 2 out of 8 companies insuring experimental aircraft,
we're almost there. Is that what all RVers want? With 1100 insured thru
my office, I'd say no.
You're also wrong in that not telling them IS worse than telling them. If
you tell them and they decide not to insure you, then you win (you don't
have to pay for something that won't cover you). If you don't tell them,
have a claim, and they deny coverage, you lose and you had to pay for it.
Anything that was not provided by or recommended in the plans by Van to be
used should be listed or it could very well cause a denial of coverage
(engine not recommended, that you decided to shorten the wings by 6
inches, etc). I can imagine the outrage that would be expressed on this
forum if there were a denial of coverage on the basis of an unknown mod
which was not disclosed.
Phoenix used to pay out for stuff that perhaps they shouldn't have (such
as known unairworthy planes and planes which had car engines that they
were never told of, etc), and their loss ratio was such that they got out.
Now, everybody who wants insurance is paying the price.
My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to
advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a
whole.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
Light Aircraft Office
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Charlie Kuss wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> It seems to me, the best way to short circuit this issue, is to make
>> the
>> insurance company aware of any and all modifications you've made to the
>> stock design, prior to signing the contract. Honesty, after all, is the
>> best policy.
>
>
> They will have to pry my experimental airworthiness certificate out of
> my cold, cold hands before I would ever agree to telling the insurance
> carrier of the mods in my RV-6!
>
> IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!
>
> The FAA and the laws of this land clearly state that I can have whatever
> mods I want in my experimental aircraft. If a carrier has a problem
> with this situation, they can do as many carriers have and stop insuring
> experimental aircraft. But if an insurer agrees to insure an
> experimental aircraft registered per the FARS, they have NO right to put
> restrictions on the airworthiness certificate that aren't placed there
> by the FARS, or to make insurability conditional on their interpretation
> of the FAA's experimental certificate.
>
> Having said that, I have no doubt that some insurers would LOVE to be
> able to dictate their ideas of how to manufacture a "safe" experimental
> aircraft. But this whole idea of letting our experimental aircraft slip
> toward a "standard" concept is scary. This is precisely what has
> happened in many European nations and why those builders must have every
> modified rivet approved by the powers that be.
>
> We must fight via every avenue available to us any effort to
> "standardize" our experimental aircraft! I am dismayed by the reports we
> have seen on this list of DAR's or FAA inspectors that want to add
> "their" pet requirements to the registration process. If we sit idly by
> and let busy-body inspectors or insurers begin enforcing personal
> modifications to the FARS as they see fit, we are well on our way to
> seeing the tremendous freedoms we possess under the experimental
> certification disappear.
>
> There.......I feel better.............
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net
writes:
> My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to
> advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a
> whole.
>>>
And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of
those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes a
modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for
denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different empennage
fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus Vans
baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we
know if we'll wind up being denied?
Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid
stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life
forms.....
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW
Columbia, TN do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
It isn't up to me, the agent (I work for NationAir). It'd be up to the
claims adjuster who works for the insurance company. And a denial of
coverage is very likely end up in court with the insured claiming that he's
the manufacturer and the insurance company claiming that Van's is.
You see, the question on the application is what is really at issue here.
It asks the insured to answer whether, "there are any modifications not
provided by the manufacturer." The insurance company wants to know if there
is an engine other than recommended in the plans (both in horsepower and
type [i.e. a car engine]), and changes other major changes one makes in the
plans such as that. Obviously, people buy all manner of things from vendors
other than Van's and put them in/on their planes.
The plans do call for certain things (i.e. engine type/horsepower) which you
wouldn't necessarily have to buy from Van's, but which (if the
recommendation is followed) wouldn't make one answer 'yes' to the question
above.
If I were a builder, I'd list all of those things that were outside of those
recommended or provided for by Van's, and ask my agent to forward that list
to the underwriter for review. I would want to make sure that there was no
question whether or not a change I made mattered to the underwriter. The
agent can keep that list on file, and present it to various companies at
your renewal (not difficult as there are only 2 companies currently.)
As an insured, I wouldn't want to have to fight my insurance company to get
paid a claim. And I could also lose the fight.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc.
***Notice to All Recipients***
Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the
Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to
speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation.
***Confidentiality Notice***
The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for
the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are
not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments
thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please
notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete
the original message from your system.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net
writes:
> My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to
> advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a
> whole.
>>>
And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of
those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes
a
modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for
denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different
empennage
fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus
Vans
baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we
know if we'll wind up being denied?
Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid
stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life
forms.....
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW
Columbia, TN do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
I failed to give you any idea of what they're really after. Sorry.
Generally, they aren't likely to care that you have added extra seat
padding, etc. They are curious about major modifications (things that would
affect the flight characteristics or safety of the plane.... did you decide
to leave out the seat belts or make them out of twine... etc... I'm
exaggerating.)
They wouldn't need a list of all the avionics, etc. most of which are
probably not mentioned in the plans. If you have something that you think
qualifies, I'd ask. We'll ask the underwriters and annotate all in the
file.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc.
***Notice to All Recipients***
Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the
Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to
speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation.
***Confidentiality Notice***
The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for
the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are
not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments
thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please
notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete
the original message from your system.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net
writes:
> My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to
> advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a
> whole.
>>>
And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of
those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes
a
modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for
denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different
empennage
fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus
Vans
baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we
know if we'll wind up being denied?
Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid
stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life
forms.....
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW
Columbia, TN do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Yet another ebay scam to watch out for |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Everyone,
Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently running scams
on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes him a bit difficult
to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect to pay, using
home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things that had my spidey sense
tingling but what really gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could
trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect
them to yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has several
positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account.
So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagged-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
At 04:57 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
>
> Thanks for fielding this one for me Ed, but I should add a few
> points as
>well. First let me say that this was not synthetic ATF. I considered trying
>this but had decided that there wasn't enough value in pursuing this
>experiment any further, so decided to try DOT5. Second, the ATF did not
>freeze up. It was just to thick to purge through the system using my purge
>system. (which in the summer will easily purge the brakes system with ATF)
>Third, I have no doubt that if I'd actually had the system purged and ready
>before it got cold, that I'd have been able to apply plenty of braking
>power, but I didn't & I couldn't resulting in a wasted day of great flying
>weather (severe clear & cold) and a few choice words.
> I've lived in the frozen north all of my life and we learn to
> live with the
>cold, but hydraulic fluids do not perform well when cold. Sure you can
>start up your truck at -35C and drop it in gear & go, but your tranny won't
>like it, will shift very poorly and won't last long at all. In the very cold
>weather forestry operations are in full speed as the frozen ground aids in
>efficient harvesting, but heavy equipment is not shut down at all due to the
>hydraulic oil becoming cold. Machines will run for months at a time and
>breakdowns are handled very quickly and efficiently to get things up and
>warm again.
>few posts on "ATF as brake fluid" & "DOT-5 Brake Fluid" It's probably the
>best info I've seen posted on this list regarding the different types of
>brake fluids.
>
>Todd
Todd,
Thanks for giving us "the rest of the story". Tim Olson was kind enough
to provide me with the web link to the data on Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. See below
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
It's hot & cold weather properties are an improvement over standard mineral
oil based ATF. For those who want to stick with a mineral (albeit
synthetic) fluid, this is better.
To compare Mobil 1 synthetic's properties to 5606 and 83282, look at
AeroShell's document below. AeroShell Type 41 is 5606 and AeroShell Type 31
is 83282. See page 6 for 83282's specs and pages 8 & 9 for 5606
http://193.113.209.166/aeroshell/aeroshellhydraulicfluids.pdf
I hope this helps.
Charlie Kuss
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: DOT-5 Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
At 02:53 PM 12/18/2005, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>At 08:09 AM 12/17/2005, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> >
> >While on the subject of brake fluid;
> >
> >Does anybody out there have any experience with DOT-5 synthetic brake fluid?
> >Pros and Cons?
> >
> >Jim in Kelowna
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >Nearly ALL Velocities use DOT5 since they feature Datsun/Nissan master
> >cylinders (which won't work with 5606) and MATCO calipers. Some folks have
> >converted the MATCOs to Clevelands. DOT5 works fine - just a bit expensive
> >at $30 a quart (NAPA).
> >
> >Ronnie Brown
> >N713MR - Velocity RG
>
>Jim,
> I've never used DOT 5 in an aircraft. I have used it in automobiles and
>motorcycles.
>snipped
>Glycol based brake fluids absorb moisture. This is actually a good thing.
>DOT 3, 4 & 5.1 fluids with 2 to 4% moisture content will not freeze below
>-40F
snipped
I just noticed a mistake in the above email. I meant to state that DOT 3,4
& 5.1 fluids will not freeze until you reach temperatures BELOW -40 degrees
F Sorry for the typo
Charlie Kuss
Message 9
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| Subject: | Any San Francisco RV 6,7 or 9's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Parker Thomas" <me@parkerthomas.com>
Hello Builders -
I'm wondering if any of you have a completed RV 6, 7 or 9 near San Francisco
or Oakland that I could come look at. I'm trying to convince a friend to
join me on my second RV project. He is 6' 5" and a little concerned about
whether he would fit without his head sticking out.
Just being able to sit in one would be a big help. Can anyone help?
Many thanks,
Parker Thomas
RV-8 N321PT built, flown for 300 wondrous hours and, unfortunately, sold
____________________________________
F. Parker Thomas
ShredFirst
phone 510-433-0200
fax 510-217-5976
parker@shredfirst.biz
www.shredfirst.biz
Message 10
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| Subject: | That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... |
1.66 HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (DHCP)
1.28 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC)
1.36 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP
addr 1)
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
I don't know where I saw this idea written up but ...
This weekend I got the top skins pretty much complete on my 9
and made use of this technique to great effect. Where you have
the tab of a rib or bulkhead sticking up so it doesn't lie flat
against the other layers you are riveting together its hard to
hold down the tab and buck the rivet at the same time. If you
don't take action you end up with the shop head partially set
above and below the protruding tab.
Someone came up with the idea of taking a piece of soft plastic
or rubber tubing with a diameter slightly larger than the rivet
shank and twice the length of the un-set shank, placing over
the rivet shank and under the bucking bar face. As you press
the bucking bar against the rivet the tubing compresses and
pushes the tab of alum into place. As the rivet sets the
tubing compresses further.
This is a very effective technique and I wanted to thank its
inventor !! Without him/her and this list I probably would
never have figure it out.
Happy Holidays !!
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low flash point.
That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the approved stuff
is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't address the freezing
issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up some answers. I forgot the
spec for the better approved Mil spec aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but it
cost more and available only in larger quantities (I think a gallon). You could
likely get some small amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really
compatible with standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The argument
is you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes
need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could get
the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get, the higher
flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at the Matronics
picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G
Message 12
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| Subject: | That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
An even easier idea is to stick a piece of scotch brite on the
protruding rivet side between the rivet (soon to be shop headed) and the
bucking bar. As the bucking bar hits the rivet, it pushes the skin down
nice and tight. Seems hard to believe, but try it. It really works!
You only need to use one layer thick of scotch brite.
-Mike
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 Fuselage
<<Someone came up with the idea of taking a piece of soft plastic
or rubber tubing with a diameter slightly larger than the rivet
shank and twice the length of the un-set shank, placing over
the rivet shank and under the bucking bar face. As you press
the bucking bar against the rivet the tubing compresses and
pushes the tab of alum into place. As the rivet sets the
tubing compresses further.>>
<<
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Subject: RV-List: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ...
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
I don't know where I saw this idea written up but ...
This weekend I got the top skins pretty much complete on my 9
and made use of this technique to great effect. Where you have
the tab of a rib or bulkhead sticking up so it doesn't lie flat
against the other layers you are riveting together its hard to
hold down the tab and buck the rivet at the same time. If you
don't take action you end up with the shop head partially set
above and below the protruding tab.
Someone came up with the idea of taking a piece of soft plastic
or rubber tubing with a diameter slightly larger than the rivet
shank and twice the length of the un-set shank, placing over
the rivet shank and under the bucking bar face. As you press
the bucking bar against the rivet the tubing compresses and
pushes the tab of alum into place. As the rivet sets the
tubing compresses further.
This is a very effective technique and I wanted to thank its
inventor !! Without him/her and this list I probably would
never have figure it out.
Happy Holidays !!
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Dear Listers,
I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an
RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company...
Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other
planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going
to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco.
My question is:
Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that
approximate value?
Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance?
Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
Robin,
I'd give Bob Mackey a call at Falcon Insurance.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
> I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an
>RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company...
>Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other
>planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going
>to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco.
>
> My question is:
>
>Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that
>approximate value?
>
>Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance?
>
>
> Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated.
>
>
>Robin Marks
>
>RV-4 Sold...
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com>
Sure seems high. I think the insurance is a combination of
- Hull value. $150K pays more than $75
- Seats - 4 is about double 2
- Liability (for those on ground)
I pay $8K for C414, 7 seats, $500K hull, $1M smooth. So it seems I am
getting a much better deal.
I had heard RV8 insurance was $800 to $2K range. That is what I am
budgeting for my plane under construction.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Dear Listers,
I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an
RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company...
Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other
planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going
to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco.
My question is:
Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that
approximate value?
Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance?
Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold...
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any commercially available
RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has only found RV-4 kits
available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there? Thanks in advance.
Ken Brooks
RV-8QB N1903P in progress
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
There are only two companies other than AVEMCO which are currently insuring
homebuilts. AVEMCO's coverages have a couple of drawbacks as well. When
comparing their policy and premiums to other companies remember that they
limit their liability by writing your liability coverages as $1 Million per
occurrence sublimited to $100,000 per person. All the companies we work
with limit each passenger to $100,000. This means that AVEMCO limits any
person's bodily injury whether they're inside or outside the plane.
AVEMCO also further sublimits the payout if the injured person is a family
member of yours. (normally to 25% of that sublimit). None of the companies
we deal with limit family members.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc.
***Notice to All Recipients***
Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the
Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to
speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation.
***Confidentiality Notice***
The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for
the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are
not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments
thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please
notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete
the original message from your system.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin@mrmoisture.com>
Dear Listers,
I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an
RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company...
Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other
planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going
to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco.
My question is:
Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that
approximate value?
Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance?
Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold...
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Henderson" <rv6n6r@comcast.net>
[snip]
> my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going
> to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco.
>
> My question is:
>
> Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that
> approximate value?
Yeah, call someone besides Avemco. I've had them quote me a number of times
over the years and they're consistently way higher than the others (AIG,
USAIG, ...). I go through Skysmith, www.skysmith.com.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Just curious - does anyone offer an o-ring replacement
kit for RV brakes that would allow us to use DOT3/4/5.1
brake fluid? I guess I could "roll my own", but I'm
pretty lazy.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Bending F-718 Longerons |
1.74 ROUND_THE_WORLD Received: says mail sent around the world (DNS)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between
stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these
stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2"
Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct?
Trevor
RV-7
Message 21
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| Subject: | Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Funny thing you mention this, based on something someone else said I dug back
through to the original second chance email and it had the same markings. Looks
like he was trolling for something that was high dollar and had current bid
history. I haven't run across this version of the eBay scams before. Some
of these guys must be getting really lazy to not even bother hijacking the account.
Very interesting. Reinforces the fact that you always need to check eBay
or paypal account directly for stuff and don't ever use the links in the email
unless you know how to dissect them. In either case the point is to warn
people that these scams do exist. I turned the original emails over to eBay when
I first discovered it, just initially mistook plain lazy trolling and spoofing
for hijacking.
It is interesting that the actual guy had two transponders in his plane originally.
Bit of an overkill.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuse
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob White
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
Hi Michael,
Was this a second chance offer? If it was a second chance offer, then I suspect
the perpetrator was spoofing the second chance offer rather than hijacking the
account. Based on positive feedback from the seller and the original buyer,
I would guess the seller is legit and you were getting emails from someone else.
That's good info though. When I receive an email from Paypal saying I've received
a payment, I always open my Paypal account just to make sure the payment is
actually there. It's too easy to make an email look like something it isn't.
(Never had a bad one yet though.)
Bob W.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Hi G
The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with your standard
GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606.
If you mix it you simply lower the flash point from the 450F of the MIL-H-5606
to something in-between - based on amount of each fluid in the mixture.
Here is a URL with lots of info : http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm
MIL-H-83282 replaces MIL-H-5606. It is dyed red so it can be distinguished
from incompatible fluids. MIL-H-83282 has a synthetic hydrocarbon
base and contains additives to provide the required viscosity
and antiwear characteristics, which inhibit oxidation and corrosion.
It is used in hydraulic systems having a temperature range of-40=B0F
to +275=B0F. Flash point, fire point, and spontaneous ignition temperature of
MIL-H-83282, which is fire resistant, exceeds that of MIL-H-5606 by more than
200=B0F. The fluid extinguishes itself when the external source of flame
or heat is removed. Hydraulic fluid MIL-H-83282 is compatible with all materials
used in systems presently using MIL-H-5606. It maybe combined
with MIL-H-5606 with no adverse effect other than a reduction of its fire-resistant
properties. MIL-H-83282 is now required in the main systems
of all fleet aircraft previously using MIL-H-5606.
To me, other than the fact that its hard to find in quantities less than a gallon,
that the MIL-H83283 is a no-brainier for swapping out your old 5606 next annual
and replacing it. Its designed for aircraft brake systems, is fire resistant,
and has a 200F higher flash point.
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low flash point.
That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the approved stuff
is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't address the freezing
issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up some answers. I forgot
the spec for the better approved Mil spec aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but
it cost more and available only in larger quantities (I think a gallon). You
could likely get some small amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really
compatible with standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The
argument is you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes
need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could get
the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get, the higher
flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at the Matronics
picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Bending F-718 Longerons |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Cary" <williamc@rv9builder.com>
Trevor,
I think if you look closely at the drawing it says that the dimensions
are before bending. See note 2 drawing 18. The outside of the curve will
be longer after bending.
Bill
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section
between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance
between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out
by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be
correct?
Trevor
RV-7
Message 24
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| Subject: | Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> Hi G
>
> The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with
> your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606.
> If you mix it you simply lower the flash point from the 450F of the
> MIL-H-5606 to something in-between - based on amount of each fluid in the
> mixture.
> OOPS!! should have said with the ...450F f of the MIL-H-83283.....
>
> Here is a URL with lots of info :
> http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm
>
> MIL-H-83282 replaces MIL-H-5606. It is dyed red so it can be
> distinguished from incompatible fluids. MIL-H-83282 has a
> synthetic hydrocarbon base and contains additives to provide the
> required viscosity and antiwear characteristics, which inhibit
> oxidation and corrosion. It is used in hydraulic systems having a
> temperature range of-40=B0F to +275=B0F. Flash point, fire point, and
> spontaneous ignition temperature of MIL-H-83282, which is fire resistant,
> exceeds that of MIL-H-5606 by more than 200=B0F. The fluid
> extinguishes itself when the external source of flame or heat is removed.
> Hydraulic fluid MIL-H-83282 is compatible with all materials used in
> systems presently using MIL-H-5606. It maybe combined with
> MIL-H-5606 with no adverse effect other than a reduction of its
> fire-resistant properties. MIL-H-83282 is now required in the
> main systems of all fleet aircraft previously using M!
> IL-H-5606.
>
> To me, other than the fact that its hard to find in quantities less than a
> gallon, that the MIL-H83283 is a no-brainier for swapping out your old
> 5606 next annual and replacing it. Its designed for aircraft brake
> systems, is fire resistant, and has a 200F higher flash point.
>
>
> Ed A
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>>
>> The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low
>> flash point. That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the
>> approved stuff is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't
>> address the freezing issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up
>> some answers. I forgot the spec for the better approved Mil spec
>> aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but it cost more and available only in
>> larger quantities (I think a gallon). You could likely get some small
>> amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really compatible with
>> standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The argument is
>> you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes
>> need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could
>> get the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get,
>> the higher flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at
>> the Matronics picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8 RC Model |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
http://www.rchomebuilts.com/
This company has a RV-6/6A model. They are well built
almost ready to fly models. I did a little R and D on
their Velocity kit that a friend of mine had for beta
testing.
Dave
--- Ken Brooks <kenbrooks@charter.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks"
> <kenbrooks@charter.net>
>
> A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any
> commercially available
> RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has
> only found RV-4 kits
> available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ken Brooks
> RV-8QB N1903P in progress
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's)
don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the
road would be challenging.
>>
>>The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with
>>your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606.
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 RC Model |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Haven't seen an RV-8, but there is an RV-4 and a really cool Harmon Rocket
III ARF...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SEA3050
I have one, its a blast to fly, very RV-like in it's flight behavior and one
of the coolest looking planes to have on the flight line.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 RC Model
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
>
> A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any commercially
> available
> RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has only found RV-4 kits
> available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there? Thanks in advance.
>
> Ken Brooks
> RV-8QB N1903P in progress
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think |
about it?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chopper 2" <mkellems@bellsouth.net>
>>Charlie, I now have a good picture of the bottom side posted for all to see here.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/m2mustang/album?.dirde0c&.srcph&store&prodid&.donehttp%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Thanks, Mike Kellems NX29AT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss you think about it?" <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think about it?
><mkellems@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>Do Not Archive
>
> Mike
> Does this box have an exhaust port to allow the heated air to escape when
> cabin heat is not desired? Please add another photo showing the bottom of
> the unit.
> Charlie Kuss
> PS I like your rather ingenious conversion of rear FI servo to Fwd servo.
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Dec 2005, at 18:30, Mickey Coggins wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's)
> don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the
> road would be challenging.
But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you
could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606
would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to
add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL-
H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a
gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can
purchase. :)
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | firewall penetration points |
--> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
Greetings
I would like to finish up my RV-7A firewall preparation before my IO-360B1B (updraft)
engine arrives from Aerosport Power. I am a bit concerned about following
the plans on all the firewall penetration points since there is no Vans' firewall
forward kit specific to fuel injected engines with the updraft air induction.
After talking to Bart at Aerosport Power and sharing with him the Vans drawing
showing the firewall penetration points, he was a little concerned about the hole
location for the mixutre control cable. The plans show it on the left side
upper part of the firewall, approximately even with the middle of the recess
box. Can anyone tell me why this is so high up? Bart expected it to be down
in the lower center portion of the firewall, close to the throttle.
Also, do Listers recommend installation of the eyeball assemblys for the throttle,
mixture and prop cable pass-through points? If so, do I need a different
size hole than what the plans call out for these cables(5/8 inch)?
regards,
Erich Weaver
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Bending F-718 Longerons |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Hi Trevor:
I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the curve do not
match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before bending, but I
marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them, then after
bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I
double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my
opinion the drawing is flat out wrong.
Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point
on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where
the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in
horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending.
Jamie
RV-7A Forward Fuselage
http://rv.jpainter.org
Trevor wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
>
>Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between
stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between
these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2"
Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct?
>Trevor
>RV-7
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Actually, a growing number of the larger FBO's have the stuff as many of the
fleet type GA aircraft have/are switching to it. Check with them and I
imagine they would be willing to sell you a more suitable amount.
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with
MIL_H-5606
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's)
> don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the
> road would be challenging.
>
>>>
>>>The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with
>>>your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606.
>>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>> Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's)
>> don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the
>> road would be challenging.
>
> But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you
> could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606
> would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to
> add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL-
> H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a
> gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can
> purchase. :)
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Yes, I have a gallon of the stuff and I've offered all my nearby RV
neighbors what they need for their brakes if they are interested. Its more
than I will use in a decade.
Ed Anderson
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: firewall penetration points |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm building a -10 and not a 7, so the advice is probably worth less
than 2 cents, but...
If it were me, after my experience, I would NOT drill those 5/8" hole
and I would get the eyeballs to put in instead. If you drill the
holes, you'll be screwing yourself over if you go with the eyeballs...
if the holes run into eachother. The holes for them are maybe
more like 1-1/8". If you can spare the time, I'd wait until you
have your engine ready to hang, then put it close to the firewall
and see how it looks, then drill them and put in the eyeballs.
Of course, you can use the cheap snap bushings if that's your
preference. I didn't like that idea quite as much.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
erichweaver@cox.net wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <erichweaver@cox.net>
>
> Greetings
>
> I would like to finish up my RV-7A firewall preparation before my
> IO-360B1B (updraft) engine arrives from Aerosport Power. I am a bit
> concerned about following the plans on all the firewall penetration
> points since there is no Vans' firewall forward kit specific to fuel
> injected engines with the updraft air induction.
>
> After talking to Bart at Aerosport Power and sharing with him the
> Vans drawing showing the firewall penetration points, he was a little
> concerned about the hole location for the mixutre control cable. The
> plans show it on the left side upper part of the firewall,
> approximately even with the middle of the recess box. Can anyone
> tell me why this is so high up? Bart expected it to be down in the
> lower center portion of the firewall, close to the throttle.
>
> Also, do Listers recommend installation of the eyeball assemblys for
> the throttle, mixture and prop cable pass-through points? If so, do
> I need a different size hole than what the plans call out for these
> cables(5/8 inch)?
>
> regards,
>
> Erich Weaver
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
A gallon of MIL-H-83232 is way more than I'd need; can I use the extra in my car's
transmission?
Would my car insurance be void if they found out?
-Stormy
well, the way this thread is going, someone was bound to ask it sooner or later
;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 19 Dec 2005, at 18:30, Mickey Coggins wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's)
> don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the
> road would be challenging.
But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you
could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606
would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to
add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL-
H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a
gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can
purchase. :)
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Off topic FAA user fees |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
If there is anyone out there who thinks user fees might not be a bad idea or something not worth resisting have a look at the current AVWEB lead articles at: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/536-full.html.
According to AOPA and last month's Flying editorial this issue is going to come
up again.
"Once the camel's nose is under the tent"
Dick Sipp
RV4 RV10
do not achieve
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | where are the 10's....? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
I see the number of flying RV 10's is up to 18! I am quite sure I have not seen
pictures of more than 5 or 6 flying planes, so the question is where are the
rest? I want to see as many pictures as possible. There are some very good builder
logs on the web that I reference a lot, but the more pictures I can get my
beady little eyes on the more intuitive my plans become. Not to mention the
paint schemes......
Cheers...
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
Message 38
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| Subject: | Off topic FAA user fees |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
> "Once the camel's nose is under the tent"
Democracy stinks. (g)
Do not archive
Message 39
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|
"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>,
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
My son (wife & two grandsons) is now living in Everett, Washington. I'm
looking for a source in that area for him to continue with flight training.
He has not flown except with me or Tom in the Rocket in 8-10 years. I'm
going up there for Christmas & think flight training/ground school etc would
make a great Christmas gift. Need input from someone in that area.
KABONG HRII N561FS
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bending F-718 Longerons |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
The variation from plane to plane is kinda built into the
process - when you get to the point of puting together the
forward cabin section you trim the forward end of the longeron
to fit ... don't worry about it - move right along ...
g
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
> Hi Trevor:
>
> I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the
> curve do not
> match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before
> bending, but I
> marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them,
> then after
> bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I
> double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my
> opinion the drawing is flat out wrong.
>
> Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point
> on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where
> the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in
> horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending.
>
> Jamie
>
> RV-7A Forward Fuselage
> http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
> Trevor wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
> >
> >Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between
stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between
these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/-
1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct?
> >Trevor
> >RV-7
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Charlie are you sure about the Skydrol? We were on a flight test in a
DHC8-400 a while back which blew a propeller governor seal and sprayed the
fuse with fluid. We had a mechanic on board and he was talking about
skydrol and how it was (if I recall correctly) surfactant based. He talked
about how you could tell if it was skydrol by putting a little bit on your
tongue and that the manufacturer bragged about how NON TOXIC it is. I
hadn't heard anyone mention skydrol until you did but have been wondering if
maybe IT is the ideal brake fluid for use in our aircraft (my understanding
was that it was NON toxic and NON flammable which, to me, sounds ideal, even
with the extra cost, lets just hope it's hygroscopic also). Maybe an A&P
with experience on large commercial aircraft can clear up my confusion?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
No airframe/engine parts left in the FWF kit (still some wiring though)
-----Original Message-----
Time: 11:54:54 AM PST US
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: DOT-5 Brake Fluid
..... Interestingly, it is good for use with Skydrol. However Skydrol has
draw backs which make it less than ideal for light aircraft use. (Toxic, not
readily available at small airports, expensive, and burns at an elevated
level)
Charlie Kuss
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Modifications, airworthiness and insurance. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
I agree with you 100% Sam (even though my plane is 99.999% per Van's plans).
But...I caution everyone on an episode I heard about concerning major mods
made AFTER THE AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE WAS ISSUED! If I recall correctly
the aircraft was a Varieze and the owner had replaced the original propeller
with one of a different design and manufacturer. This was with the old
operating limitations before the FAA let experimental owners put themselves
back into a 5 hour flight test phase(phase 1, after a post certification
major mod) and then re-certify the aircraft safe for flight after the 5 hour
test. Back then.... the Varieze owner should have contacted the FAA who
would have then told him to go back into flight test phase and reworked his
paperwork on the experimental cert. Since the varieze owner did not do that
and the new prop was not specified on his airworthiness certificate, the
insurance company would NOT PAY when the prop came apart and he had to
dead-stick into a field. With the new operating limitations we ARE allowed
to perform major mods (after obtaining our airworthiness certificates)
without contacting the FAA. But, we MUST log the change, PLACE OURSELVES
BACK INTO PHASE 1 FLIGHT TEST AND, sign off the test time just as we did
when we first flew our pocket rockets. Just FYI!!
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
All FWF parts are on the airplane(except a bit of wiring)
-----Original Message-----
Time: 08:14:06 PM PST US
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid
.....They will have to pry my experimental airworthiness certificate out of
my cold, cold hands before I would ever agree to telling the insurance
carrier of the mods in my RV-6!......
IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!
There.......I feel better.............
Sam Buchanan
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Sidey" <psidey@msn.com>
I just wanted to follow up and ask you to take a look at our new web sites.
www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey It is so simple to prospect with and I have had
people enroll before Ive even had a chance to call them because they saw
the awesome opportunity to be on the ground floor of this project with the
Star Power of the Nike of Nutrition and the team that is being built.
Best regards,
Paul Sidey
Tel: 303-537-3283
Fax: 303-537-3284
email: psidey@msn.com
http://www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey
http://www.secretsofthemillionairemind.com/a/dollarsandsense
http://tomchenault.com
If you don't want to be on this list anymore, just type REMOVE and send
back. I do NOT want to spam you and I promise you won't hurt my feelings.
(Except you, mom) Thanks!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS
Subject: RV-List: RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Charlie are you sure about the Skydrol? We were on a flight test in a
DHC8-400 a while back which blew a propeller governor seal and sprayed the
fuse with fluid. We had a mechanic on board and he was talking about
skydrol and how it was (if I recall correctly) surfactant based. He talked
about how you could tell if it was skydrol by putting a little bit on your
tongue and that the manufacturer bragged about how NON TOXIC it is. I
hadn't heard anyone mention skydrol until you did but have been wondering if
maybe IT is the ideal brake fluid for use in our aircraft (my understanding
was that it was NON toxic and NON flammable which, to me, sounds ideal, even
with the extra cost, lets just hope it's hygroscopic also). Maybe an A&P
with experience on large commercial aircraft can clear up my confusion?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
No airframe/engine parts left in the FWF kit (still some wiring though)
-----Original Message-----
Time: 11:54:54 AM PST US
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: DOT-5 Brake Fluid
.... Interestingly, it is good for use with Skydrol. However Skydrol has
draw backs which make it less than ideal for light aircraft use. (Toxic, not
readily available at small airports, expensive, and burns at an elevated
level)
Charlie Kuss
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Bending F-718 Longerons |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Sidey" <psidey@msn.com>
I just wanted to follow up and ask you to take a look at our new web sites.
www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey It is so simple to prospect with and I have had
people enroll before Ive even had a chance to call them because they saw
the awesome opportunity to be on the ground floor of this project with the
Star Power of the Nike of Nutrition and the team that is being built.
Best regards,
Paul Sidey
Tel: 303-537-3283
Fax: 303-537-3284
email: psidey@msn.com
http://www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey
http://www.secretsofthemillionairemind.com/a/dollarsandsense
http://tomchenault.com
If you don't want to be on this list anymore, just type REMOVE and send
back. I do NOT want to spam you and I promise you won't hurt my feelings.
(Except you, mom) Thanks!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons
--> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
The variation from plane to plane is kinda built into the
process - when you get to the point of puting together the
forward cabin section you trim the forward end of the longeron
to fit ... don't worry about it - move right along ...
g
g
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
> Hi Trevor:
>
> I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the
> curve do not
> match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before
> bending, but I
> marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them,
> then after
> bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I
> double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my
> opinion the drawing is flat out wrong.
>
> Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point
> on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where
> the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in
> horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending.
>
> Jamie
>
> RV-7A Forward Fuselage
> http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
> Trevor wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" <davist@xsinet.co.za>
> >
> >Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section
between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance
between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out
by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be
correct?
> >Trevor
> >RV-7
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
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