---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/19/05: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 AM - Re: ATF@-15C (Todd Bartrim) 2. 03:47 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (jhelms@i1.net) 3. 06:03 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (John Helms) 5. 07:16 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (John Helms) 6. 07:53 AM - Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 7. 08:11 AM - Re: ATF@-15C (Charlie Kuss) 8. 08:21 AM - Re: DOT-5 Brake Fluid (Charlie Kuss) 9. 09:15 AM - Any San Francisco RV 6,7 or 9's? (Parker Thomas) 10. 10:51 AM - That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... (Gerry Filby) 11. 10:55 AM - Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid () 12. 11:46 AM - Re: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... (Mike Kraus) 13. 12:11 PM - RV-10 Insurance (Robin Marks) 14. 12:32 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (jim) 15. 12:37 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (Dan Beadle) 16. 01:13 PM - RV-8 RC Model (Ken Brooks) 17. 01:14 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (John Helms) 18. 01:26 PM - Re: RV-10 Insurance (Randall Henderson) 19. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid (Mickey Coggins) 20. 01:31 PM - Bending F-718 Longerons (Trevor) 21. 01:43 PM - Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 22. 02:37 PM - Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson) 23. 02:41 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Bill Cary) 24. 02:50 PM - Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson) 25. 02:54 PM - Re: RV-8 RC Model (Dave Nellis) 26. 03:31 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Mickey Coggins) 27. 03:31 PM - Re: RV-8 RC Model (Randy Lervold) 28. 03:51 PM - Re: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think about it? (Chopper 2) 29. 04:04 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Kevin Horton) 30. 04:48 PM - firewall penetration points () 31. 05:18 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Jamie Painter) 32. 05:29 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson) 33. 05:31 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (Ed Anderson) 34. 06:11 PM - Re: firewall penetration points (Tim Olson) 35. 06:16 PM - Re: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 (sportav8r@aol.com) 36. 06:49 PM - Off topic FAA user fees (Richard Sipp) 37. 06:51 PM - where are the 10's....? (Evan and Megan Johnson) 38. 07:30 PM - Re: Off topic FAA user fees (Bob Collins) 39. 07:37 PM - Need input (JOHN STARN) 40. 09:54 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Gerry Filby) 41. 10:04 PM - Re: Brake fluid-Skydrol (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 42. 10:28 PM - Modifications, airworthiness and insurance. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 43. 10:35 PM - Re: Re: Brake fluid-Skydrol (Paul Sidey) 44. 10:36 PM - Re: Bending F-718 Longerons (Paul Sidey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:38 AM PST US From: "Todd Bartrim" Subject: RE: RV-List: ATF@-15C --> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" Thanks for fielding this one for me Ed, but I should add a few points as well. First let me say that this was not synthetic ATF. I considered trying this but had decided that there wasn't enough value in pursuing this experiment any further, so decided to try DOT5. Second, the ATF did not freeze up. It was just to thick to purge through the system using my purge system. (which in the summer will easily purge the brakes system with ATF) Third, I have no doubt that if I'd actually had the system purged and ready before it got cold, that I'd have been able to apply plenty of braking power, but I didn't & I couldn't resulting in a wasted day of great flying weather (severe clear & cold) and a few choice words. I've lived in the frozen north all of my life and we learn to live with the cold, but hydraulic fluids do not perform well when cold. Sure you can start up your truck at -35C and drop it in gear & go, but your tranny won't like it, will shift very poorly and won't last long at all. In the very cold weather forestry operations are in full speed as the frozen ground aids in efficient harvesting, but heavy equipment is not shut down at all due to the hydraulic oil becoming cold. Machines will run for months at a time and breakdowns are handled very quickly and efficiently to get things up and warm again. few posts on "ATF as brake fluid" & "DOT-5 Brake Fluid" It's probably the best info I've seen posted on this list regarding the different types of brake fluids. Todd ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid From: jhelms@i1.net --> RV-List message posted by: jhelms@i1.net You're wrong, and you're talking about two completely different things. First, the FAA has absolutely nothing to do with insurance companies. The insurance company requirements on lots of things are more restrictive than the FAA because all the FAA has to do is sweep up the parts of your plane and you and put them in a box. The insurance company has to pay for it, and up to $1 Million (or whatever upper limit you purchase) for whatever you might hit with it. You are right though, in that their option is to not insure experimentals at all. With only 2 out of 8 companies insuring experimental aircraft, we're almost there. Is that what all RVers want? With 1100 insured thru my office, I'd say no. You're also wrong in that not telling them IS worse than telling them. If you tell them and they decide not to insure you, then you win (you don't have to pay for something that won't cover you). If you don't tell them, have a claim, and they deny coverage, you lose and you had to pay for it. Anything that was not provided by or recommended in the plans by Van to be used should be listed or it could very well cause a denial of coverage (engine not recommended, that you decided to shorten the wings by 6 inches, etc). I can imagine the outrage that would be expressed on this forum if there were a denial of coverage on the basis of an unknown mod which was not disclosed. Phoenix used to pay out for stuff that perhaps they shouldn't have (such as known unairworthy planes and planes which had car engines that they were never told of, etc), and their loss ratio was such that they got out. Now, everybody who wants insurance is paying the price. My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a whole. John "JT" Helms Branch Manager NationAir Insurance Agency Light Aircraft Office > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > Charlie Kuss wrote: > > >> It seems to me, the best way to short circuit this issue, is to make >> the >> insurance company aware of any and all modifications you've made to the >> stock design, prior to signing the contract. Honesty, after all, is the >> best policy. > > > They will have to pry my experimental airworthiness certificate out of > my cold, cold hands before I would ever agree to telling the insurance > carrier of the mods in my RV-6! > > IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!!!!!!! > > The FAA and the laws of this land clearly state that I can have whatever > mods I want in my experimental aircraft. If a carrier has a problem > with this situation, they can do as many carriers have and stop insuring > experimental aircraft. But if an insurer agrees to insure an > experimental aircraft registered per the FARS, they have NO right to put > restrictions on the airworthiness certificate that aren't placed there > by the FARS, or to make insurability conditional on their interpretation > of the FAA's experimental certificate. > > Having said that, I have no doubt that some insurers would LOVE to be > able to dictate their ideas of how to manufacture a "safe" experimental > aircraft. But this whole idea of letting our experimental aircraft slip > toward a "standard" concept is scary. This is precisely what has > happened in many European nations and why those builders must have every > modified rivet approved by the powers that be. > > We must fight via every avenue available to us any effort to > "standardize" our experimental aircraft! I am dismayed by the reports we > have seen on this list of DAR's or FAA inspectors that want to add > "their" pet requirements to the registration process. If we sit idly by > and let busy-body inspectors or insurers begin enforcing personal > modifications to the FARS as they see fit, we are well on our way to > seeing the tremendous freedoms we possess under the experimental > certification disappear. > > There.......I feel better............. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:02 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net writes: > My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to > advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a > whole. >>> And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes a modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different empennage fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus Vans baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we know if we'll wind up being denied? Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life forms..... Mark Phillips -6A N51PW Columbia, TN do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:03 AM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: RE: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" It isn't up to me, the agent (I work for NationAir). It'd be up to the claims adjuster who works for the insurance company. And a denial of coverage is very likely end up in court with the insured claiming that he's the manufacturer and the insurance company claiming that Van's is. You see, the question on the application is what is really at issue here. It asks the insured to answer whether, "there are any modifications not provided by the manufacturer." The insurance company wants to know if there is an engine other than recommended in the plans (both in horsepower and type [i.e. a car engine]), and changes other major changes one makes in the plans such as that. Obviously, people buy all manner of things from vendors other than Van's and put them in/on their planes. The plans do call for certain things (i.e. engine type/horsepower) which you wouldn't necessarily have to buy from Van's, but which (if the recommendation is followed) wouldn't make one answer 'yes' to the question above. If I were a builder, I'd list all of those things that were outside of those recommended or provided for by Van's, and ask my agent to forward that list to the underwriter for review. I would want to make sure that there was no question whether or not a change I made mattered to the underwriter. The agent can keep that list on file, and present it to various companies at your renewal (not difficult as there are only 2 companies currently.) As an insured, I wouldn't want to have to fight my insurance company to get paid a claim. And I could also lose the fight. John "JT" Helms Branch Manager NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc. ***Notice to All Recipients*** Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation. ***Confidentiality Notice*** The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete the original message from your system. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net writes: > My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to > advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a > whole. >>> And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes a modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different empennage fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus Vans baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we know if we'll wind up being denied? Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life forms..... Mark Phillips -6A N51PW Columbia, TN do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:16 AM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: RE: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" I failed to give you any idea of what they're really after. Sorry. Generally, they aren't likely to care that you have added extra seat padding, etc. They are curious about major modifications (things that would affect the flight characteristics or safety of the plane.... did you decide to leave out the seat belts or make them out of twine... etc... I'm exaggerating.) They wouldn't need a list of all the avionics, etc. most of which are probably not mentioned in the plans. If you have something that you think qualifies, I'd ask. We'll ask the underwriters and annotate all in the file. John "JT" Helms Branch Manager NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc. ***Notice to All Recipients*** Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation. ***Confidentiality Notice*** The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete the original message from your system. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 12/19/05 5:50:14 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net writes: > My $.02, you're of course going to do what you want. I'm just trying to > advise you and the group how it could affect you individually and as a > whole. >>> And your input is much appreciated, JT- One question tho, as I am one of those 1100- Could you please offer some guidance regarding what constitutes a modification to Vans kits & plans that Nationair would consider grounds for denial of coverage? I'm sure a lot is common sense (using a different empennage fairing--- or is it?) but when it comes to stuff like using a plenum versus Vans baffle kit, or (heaven forbid!) DOT-5 instead of the red stuff, how do we know if we'll wind up being denied? Naturally, the BEST way for all of us to keep down the costs is to avoid stupid pilot tricks like bending airplanes and harming carbon-based life forms..... Mark Phillips -6A N51PW Columbia, TN do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:13 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Everyone, Be aware that someone going buy "audio_metallurgy" is currently running scams on eBay that are aimed at aviation types. The thing that makes him a bit difficult to spot is he is selling stuff for what you would expect to pay, using home pictures of the items. He did several fishy things that had my spidey sense tingling but what really gave it away was forged emails from eBay that I could trace back to a Yahoo web account. I have reported him to eBay so I expect them to yank his id but I'm sure he has others ready to go. He also has several positive remarks so this may be a hijacked account. So you have an idea on his MO, here is a link to the item I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garmin-GTX-327-transponder-yellow-tagged-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ4595918845QQcategoryZ90980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:16 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: RE: RV-List: ATF@-15C --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss At 04:57 AM 12/19/2005, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" > > Thanks for fielding this one for me Ed, but I should add a few > points as >well. First let me say that this was not synthetic ATF. I considered trying >this but had decided that there wasn't enough value in pursuing this >experiment any further, so decided to try DOT5. Second, the ATF did not >freeze up. It was just to thick to purge through the system using my purge >system. (which in the summer will easily purge the brakes system with ATF) >Third, I have no doubt that if I'd actually had the system purged and ready >before it got cold, that I'd have been able to apply plenty of braking >power, but I didn't & I couldn't resulting in a wasted day of great flying >weather (severe clear & cold) and a few choice words. > I've lived in the frozen north all of my life and we learn to > live with the >cold, but hydraulic fluids do not perform well when cold. Sure you can >start up your truck at -35C and drop it in gear & go, but your tranny won't >like it, will shift very poorly and won't last long at all. In the very cold >weather forestry operations are in full speed as the frozen ground aids in >efficient harvesting, but heavy equipment is not shut down at all due to the >hydraulic oil becoming cold. Machines will run for months at a time and >breakdowns are handled very quickly and efficiently to get things up and >warm again. >few posts on "ATF as brake fluid" & "DOT-5 Brake Fluid" It's probably the >best info I've seen posted on this list regarding the different types of >brake fluids. > >Todd Todd, Thanks for giving us "the rest of the story". Tim Olson was kind enough to provide me with the web link to the data on Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. See below http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx It's hot & cold weather properties are an improvement over standard mineral oil based ATF. For those who want to stick with a mineral (albeit synthetic) fluid, this is better. To compare Mobil 1 synthetic's properties to 5606 and 83282, look at AeroShell's document below. AeroShell Type 41 is 5606 and AeroShell Type 31 is 83282. See page 6 for 83282's specs and pages 8 & 9 for 5606 http://193.113.209.166/aeroshell/aeroshellhydraulicfluids.pdf I hope this helps. Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:59 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: DOT-5 Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss At 02:53 PM 12/18/2005, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > >At 08:09 AM 12/17/2005, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > > > >While on the subject of brake fluid; > > > >Does anybody out there have any experience with DOT-5 synthetic brake fluid? > >Pros and Cons? > > > >Jim in Kelowna > > > >Jim, > > > >Nearly ALL Velocities use DOT5 since they feature Datsun/Nissan master > >cylinders (which won't work with 5606) and MATCO calipers. Some folks have > >converted the MATCOs to Clevelands. DOT5 works fine - just a bit expensive > >at $30 a quart (NAPA). > > > >Ronnie Brown > >N713MR - Velocity RG > >Jim, > I've never used DOT 5 in an aircraft. I have used it in automobiles and >motorcycles. >snipped >Glycol based brake fluids absorb moisture. This is actually a good thing. >DOT 3, 4 & 5.1 fluids with 2 to 4% moisture content will not freeze below >-40F snipped I just noticed a mistake in the above email. I meant to state that DOT 3,4 & 5.1 fluids will not freeze until you reach temperatures BELOW -40 degrees F Sorry for the typo Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:25 AM PST US From: "Parker Thomas" Subject: RV-List: Any San Francisco RV 6,7 or 9's? --> RV-List message posted by: "Parker Thomas" Hello Builders - I'm wondering if any of you have a completed RV 6, 7 or 9 near San Francisco or Oakland that I could come look at. I'm trying to convince a friend to join me on my second RV project. He is 6' 5" and a little concerned about whether he would fit without his head sticking out. Just being able to sit in one would be a big help. Can anyone help? Many thanks, Parker Thomas RV-8 N321PT built, flown for 300 wondrous hours and, unfortunately, sold ____________________________________ F. Parker Thomas ShredFirst phone 510-433-0200 fax 510-217-5976 parker@shredfirst.biz www.shredfirst.biz ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:52 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... From: Gerry Filby 1.66 HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (DHCP) 1.28 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) 1.36 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr 1) --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby I don't know where I saw this idea written up but ... This weekend I got the top skins pretty much complete on my 9 and made use of this technique to great effect. Where you have the tab of a rib or bulkhead sticking up so it doesn't lie flat against the other layers you are riveting together its hard to hold down the tab and buck the rivet at the same time. If you don't take action you end up with the shop head partially set above and below the protruding tab. Someone came up with the idea of taking a piece of soft plastic or rubber tubing with a diameter slightly larger than the rivet shank and twice the length of the un-set shank, placing over the rivet shank and under the bucking bar face. As you press the bucking bar against the rivet the tubing compresses and pushes the tab of alum into place. As the rivet sets the tubing compresses further. This is a very effective technique and I wanted to thank its inventor !! Without him/her and this list I probably would never have figure it out. Happy Holidays !! __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:31 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low flash point. That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the approved stuff is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't address the freezing issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up some answers. I forgot the spec for the better approved Mil spec aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but it cost more and available only in larger quantities (I think a gallon). You could likely get some small amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really compatible with standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The argument is you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could get the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get, the higher flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at the Matronics picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:24 AM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV-List: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" An even easier idea is to stick a piece of scotch brite on the protruding rivet side between the rivet (soon to be shop headed) and the bucking bar. As the bucking bar hits the rivet, it pushes the skin down nice and tight. Seems hard to believe, but try it. It really works! You only need to use one layer thick of scotch brite. -Mike RV-4 Flying RV-10 Fuselage <> << -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Subject: RV-List: That wicked riveting "nibble" idea ... --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby I don't know where I saw this idea written up but ... This weekend I got the top skins pretty much complete on my 9 and made use of this technique to great effect. Where you have the tab of a rib or bulkhead sticking up so it doesn't lie flat against the other layers you are riveting together its hard to hold down the tab and buck the rivet at the same time. If you don't take action you end up with the shop head partially set above and below the protruding tab. Someone came up with the idea of taking a piece of soft plastic or rubber tubing with a diameter slightly larger than the rivet shank and twice the length of the un-set shank, placing over the rivet shank and under the bucking bar face. As you press the bucking bar against the rivet the tubing compresses and pushes the tab of alum into place. As the rivet sets the tubing compresses further. This is a very effective technique and I wanted to thank its inventor !! Without him/her and this list I probably would never have figure it out. Happy Holidays !! __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:32 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance From: "Robin Marks" --> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" Dear Listers, I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company... Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco. My question is: Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that approximate value? Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance? Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated. Robin Marks RV-4 Sold... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:17 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance --> RV-List message posted by: "jim" Robin, I'd give Bob Mackey a call at Falcon Insurance. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Robin Marks" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" > >Dear Listers, > > I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an >RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company... >Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other >planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going >to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco. > > My question is: > >Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that >approximate value? > >Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance? > > > Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated. > > >Robin Marks > >RV-4 Sold... > > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance From: "Dan Beadle" --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" Sure seems high. I think the insurance is a combination of - Hull value. $150K pays more than $75 - Seats - 4 is about double 2 - Liability (for those on ground) I pay $8K for C414, 7 seats, $500K hull, $1M smooth. So it seems I am getting a much better deal. I had heard RV8 insurance was $800 to $2K range. That is what I am budgeting for my plane under construction. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance --> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" Dear Listers, I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company... Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco. My question is: Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that approximate value? Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance? Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated. Robin Marks RV-4 Sold... ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:50 PM PST US From: "Ken Brooks" Subject: RV-List: RV-8 RC Model --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any commercially available RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has only found RV-4 kits available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there? Thanks in advance. Ken Brooks RV-8QB N1903P in progress ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:19 PM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" There are only two companies other than AVEMCO which are currently insuring homebuilts. AVEMCO's coverages have a couple of drawbacks as well. When comparing their policy and premiums to other companies remember that they limit their liability by writing your liability coverages as $1 Million per occurrence sublimited to $100,000 per person. All the companies we work with limit each passenger to $100,000. This means that AVEMCO limits any person's bodily injury whether they're inside or outside the plane. AVEMCO also further sublimits the payout if the injured person is a family member of yours. (normally to 25% of that sublimit). None of the companies we deal with limit family members. John "JT" Helms Branch Manager NationAir Insurance Agencies, Inc. ***Notice to All Recipients*** Please be advised that we cannot bind, modify, or cancel coverage via the Internet, email or voicemail. Please call our office at (877) 475-5860 to speak with a NationAir Representative. Thank you for your cooperation. ***Confidentiality Notice*** The Information in this email and any attachments therein is intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and/or any attachments thereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please notify us immediately by email, attaching the original message, and delete the original message from your system. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance --> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" Dear Listers, I recently sold my RV-4 and am considering building an RV-10. Life is beautiful. Then I called my insurance company... Considering that I get extra discounts due to the fact I have two other planes my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco. My question is: Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that approximate value? Are current RV-10 owners paying around that for their insurance? Any suggestions and discussions are appreciated. Robin Marks RV-4 Sold... ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:36 PM PST US From: "Randall Henderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10 Insurance --> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Henderson" [snip] > my base insurance rate for an RV-10 insured at $150,000 is going > to run $5,600.00 / year thru Avemco. > > My question is: > > Are there significantly less expensive ways to insure an RV-10 with that > approximate value? Yeah, call someone besides Avemco. I've had them quote me a number of times over the years and they're consistently way higher than the others (AIG, USAIG, ...). I go through Skysmith, www.skysmith.com. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:30 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Just curious - does anyone offer an o-ring replacement kit for RV brakes that would allow us to use DOT3/4/5.1 brake fluid? I guess I could "roll my own", but I'm pretty lazy. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:50 PM PST US From: "Trevor" Subject: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons 1.74 ROUND_THE_WORLD Received: says mail sent around the world (DNS) --> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct? Trevor RV-7 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:35 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Follow-up: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Funny thing you mention this, based on something someone else said I dug back through to the original second chance email and it had the same markings. Looks like he was trolling for something that was high dollar and had current bid history. I haven't run across this version of the eBay scams before. Some of these guys must be getting really lazy to not even bother hijacking the account. Very interesting. Reinforces the fact that you always need to check eBay or paypal account directly for stuff and don't ever use the links in the email unless you know how to dissect them. In either case the point is to warn people that these scams do exist. I turned the original emails over to eBay when I first discovered it, just initially mistook plain lazy trolling and spoofing for hijacking. It is interesting that the actual guy had two transponders in his plane originally. Bit of an overkill. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuse Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White Hi Michael, Was this a second chance offer? If it was a second chance offer, then I suspect the perpetrator was spoofing the second chance offer rather than hijacking the account. Based on positive feedback from the seller and the original buyer, I would guess the seller is legit and you were getting emails from someone else. That's good info though. When I receive an email from Paypal saying I've received a payment, I always open my Paypal account just to make sure the payment is actually there. It's too easy to make an email look like something it isn't. (Never had a bad one yet though.) Bob W. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:13 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: RV-List: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Hi G The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606. If you mix it you simply lower the flash point from the 450F of the MIL-H-5606 to something in-between - based on amount of each fluid in the mixture. Here is a URL with lots of info : http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm MIL-H-83282 replaces MIL-H-5606. It is dyed red so it can be distinguished from incompatible fluids. MIL-H-83282 has a synthetic hydrocarbon base and contains additives to provide the required viscosity and antiwear characteristics, which inhibit oxidation and corrosion. It is used in hydraulic systems having a temperature range of-40=B0F to +275=B0F. Flash point, fire point, and spontaneous ignition temperature of MIL-H-83282, which is fire resistant, exceeds that of MIL-H-5606 by more than 200=B0F. The fluid extinguishes itself when the external source of flame or heat is removed. Hydraulic fluid MIL-H-83282 is compatible with all materials used in systems presently using MIL-H-5606. It maybe combined with MIL-H-5606 with no adverse effect other than a reduction of its fire-resistant properties. MIL-H-83282 is now required in the main systems of all fleet aircraft previously using MIL-H-5606. To me, other than the fact that its hard to find in quantities less than a gallon, that the MIL-H83283 is a no-brainier for swapping out your old 5606 next annual and replacing it. Its designed for aircraft brake systems, is fire resistant, and has a 200F higher flash point. Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid > --> RV-List message posted by: > > The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low flash point. That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the approved stuff is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't address the freezing issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up some answers. I forgot the spec for the better approved Mil spec aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but it cost more and available only in larger quantities (I think a gallon). You could likely get some small amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really compatible with standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The argument is you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could get the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get, the higher flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at the Matronics picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:40 PM PST US From: "Bill Cary" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Cary" Trevor, I think if you look closely at the drawing it says that the dimensions are before bending. See note 2 drawing 18. The outside of the curve will be longer after bending. Bill --> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct? Trevor RV-7 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:09 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > Hi G > > The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with > your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606. > If you mix it you simply lower the flash point from the 450F of the > MIL-H-5606 to something in-between - based on amount of each fluid in the > mixture. > OOPS!! should have said with the ...450F f of the MIL-H-83283..... > > Here is a URL with lots of info : > http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm > > MIL-H-83282 replaces MIL-H-5606. It is dyed red so it can be > distinguished from incompatible fluids. MIL-H-83282 has a > synthetic hydrocarbon base and contains additives to provide the > required viscosity and antiwear characteristics, which inhibit > oxidation and corrosion. It is used in hydraulic systems having a > temperature range of-40=B0F to +275=B0F. Flash point, fire point, and > spontaneous ignition temperature of MIL-H-83282, which is fire resistant, > exceeds that of MIL-H-5606 by more than 200=B0F. The fluid > extinguishes itself when the external source of flame or heat is removed. > Hydraulic fluid MIL-H-83282 is compatible with all materials used in > systems presently using MIL-H-5606. It maybe combined with > MIL-H-5606 with no adverse effect other than a reduction of its > fire-resistant properties. MIL-H-83282 is now required in the > main systems of all fleet aircraft previously using M! > IL-H-5606. > > To me, other than the fact that its hard to find in quantities less than a > gallon, that the MIL-H83283 is a no-brainier for swapping out your old > 5606 next annual and replacing it. Its designed for aircraft brake > systems, is fire resistant, and has a 200F higher flash point. > > > Ed A > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance and Brake Fluid > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: >> >> The standard aircraft red brake fluid is highly flammable and has low >> flash point. That is why the military and airlines don't use it. So the >> approved stuff is the dangerous stuff. ATF (synthetic) is safer. I can't >> address the freezing issue but a little googling I am sure would turn up >> some answers. I forgot the spec for the better approved Mil spec >> aerospace brake fluid stuff is, but it cost more and available only in >> larger quantities (I think a gallon). You could likely get some small >> amount at a JET FBO. The down side it is not really compatible with >> standard brake fluid. I plan on using the better stuff. The argument is >> you may not be able to get it on a trip. My answer is I find the brakes >> need little maintenance, except pads and if I had to I am sure I could >> get the Mil spec stuff. Granted the good old Red stuff is easier to get, >> the higher flash point of the Mil Spec makes me feel better. Just look at >> the Matronics picture of the the RV brake fire. Ouch. G >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:37 PM PST US From: Dave Nellis Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 RC Model --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis http://www.rchomebuilts.com/ This company has a RV-6/6A model. They are well built almost ready to fly models. I did a little R and D on their Velocity kit that a friend of mine had for beta testing. Dave --- Ken Brooks wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" > > > A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any > commercially available > RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has > only found RV-4 kits > available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there? > Thanks in advance. > > Ken Brooks > RV-8QB N1903P in progress > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Admin. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:02 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's) don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the road would be challenging. >> >>The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with >>your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606. > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:19 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 RC Model --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Haven't seen an RV-8, but there is an RV-4 and a really cool Harmon Rocket III ARF... http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SEA3050 I have one, its a blast to fly, very RV-like in it's flight behavior and one of the coolest looking planes to have on the flight line. Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Brooks" Subject: RV-List: RV-8 RC Model > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" > > A friend who does RC modeling asked if I knew of any commercially > available > RV-8 model kits. He'd like to build one, but has only found RV-4 kits > available. Anyone know of any RV-8 kits out there? Thanks in advance. > > Ken Brooks > RV-8QB N1903P in progress > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:03 PM PST US From: "Chopper 2" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think about it? --> RV-List message posted by: "Chopper 2" >>Charlie, I now have a good picture of the bottom side posted for all to see here. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/m2mustang/album?.dirde0c&.srcph&store&prodid&.donehttp%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos Thanks, Mike Kellems NX29AT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Kuss you think about it?" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin heat system 1" heat box What do you think about it? > >> >>Do Not Archive > > Mike > Does this box have an exhaust port to allow the heated air to escape when > cabin heat is not desired? Please add another photo showing the bottom of > the unit. > Charlie Kuss > PS I like your rather ingenious conversion of rear FI servo to Fwd servo. > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:55 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 19 Dec 2005, at 18:30, Mickey Coggins wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's) > don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the > road would be challenging. But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606 would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL- H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can purchase. :) Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:32 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: firewall penetration points --> RV-List message posted by: Greetings I would like to finish up my RV-7A firewall preparation before my IO-360B1B (updraft) engine arrives from Aerosport Power. I am a bit concerned about following the plans on all the firewall penetration points since there is no Vans' firewall forward kit specific to fuel injected engines with the updraft air induction. After talking to Bart at Aerosport Power and sharing with him the Vans drawing showing the firewall penetration points, he was a little concerned about the hole location for the mixutre control cable. The plans show it on the left side upper part of the firewall, approximately even with the middle of the recess box. Can anyone tell me why this is so high up? Bart expected it to be down in the lower center portion of the firewall, close to the throttle. Also, do Listers recommend installation of the eyeball assemblys for the throttle, mixture and prop cable pass-through points? If so, do I need a different size hole than what the plans call out for these cables(5/8 inch)? regards, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:54 PM PST US From: Jamie Painter Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter Hi Trevor: I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the curve do not match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before bending, but I marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them, then after bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my opinion the drawing is flat out wrong. Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending. Jamie RV-7A Forward Fuselage http://rv.jpainter.org Trevor wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" > >Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct? >Trevor >RV-7 > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:44 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Actually, a growing number of the larger FBO's have the stuff as many of the fleet type GA aircraft have/are switching to it. Check with them and I imagine they would be willing to sell you a more suitable amount. Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's) > don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the > road would be challenging. > >>> >>>The documentation I have says that MIL-H-83282 if fully compatible with >>>your standard GA brake system including compatible with MIL-H-5606. >> > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 finishing > > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:27 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" >> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >> >> Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's) >> don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the >> road would be challenging. > > But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you > could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606 > would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to > add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL- > H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a > gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can > purchase. :) > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 Yes, I have a gallon of the stuff and I've offered all my nearby RV neighbors what they need for their brakes if they are interested. Its more than I will use in a decade. Ed Anderson ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:53 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: firewall penetration points --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'm building a -10 and not a 7, so the advice is probably worth less than 2 cents, but... If it were me, after my experience, I would NOT drill those 5/8" hole and I would get the eyeballs to put in instead. If you drill the holes, you'll be screwing yourself over if you go with the eyeballs... if the holes run into eachother. The holes for them are maybe more like 1-1/8". If you can spare the time, I'd wait until you have your engine ready to hang, then put it close to the firewall and see how it looks, then drill them and put in the eyeballs. Of course, you can use the cheap snap bushings if that's your preference. I didn't like that idea quite as much. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 DO NOT ARCHIVE erichweaver@cox.net wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Greetings > > I would like to finish up my RV-7A firewall preparation before my > IO-360B1B (updraft) engine arrives from Aerosport Power. I am a bit > concerned about following the plans on all the firewall penetration > points since there is no Vans' firewall forward kit specific to fuel > injected engines with the updraft air induction. > > After talking to Bart at Aerosport Power and sharing with him the > Vans drawing showing the firewall penetration points, he was a little > concerned about the hole location for the mixutre control cable. The > plans show it on the left side upper part of the firewall, > approximately even with the middle of the recess box. Can anyone > tell me why this is so high up? Bart expected it to be down in the > lower center portion of the firewall, close to the throttle. > > Also, do Listers recommend installation of the eyeball assemblys for > the throttle, mixture and prop cable pass-through points? If so, do > I need a different size hole than what the plans call out for these > cables(5/8 inch)? > > regards, > > Erich Weaver > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:36 PM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com A gallon of MIL-H-83232 is way more than I'd need; can I use the extra in my car's transmission? Would my car insurance be void if they found out? -Stormy well, the way this thread is going, someone was bound to ask it sooner or later ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Correction: Compatiblity of MIL H 83282 with MIL_H-5606 --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 19 Dec 2005, at 18:30, Mickey Coggins wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Isn't it kind of strange that the normal suppliers (ACS/Wicks/Van's) > don't carry MIL-H-83282? I can imagine that getting it on the > road would be challenging. But, given that is apparently compatible with MIL-H-5606 fluid, you could top up with that if required. A small top up with MIL-H-5606 would only have a minor effect on the flash point. If you needed to add a lot of MIL-H-5606, you could purge it and refill with MIL- H-83282 fluid once you got home. It looks like you'll have most of a gallon sitting in the shop, as that is the smallest quantity you can purchase. :) Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:37 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: RV-List: Off topic FAA user fees INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" If there is anyone out there who thinks user fees might not be a bad idea or something not worth resisting have a look at the current AVWEB lead articles at: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/536-full.html. According to AOPA and last month's Flying editorial this issue is going to come up again. "Once the camel's nose is under the tent" Dick Sipp RV4 RV10 do not achieve ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:11 PM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: RV-List: where are the 10's....? --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" I see the number of flying RV 10's is up to 18! I am quite sure I have not seen pictures of more than 5 or 6 flying planes, so the question is where are the rest? I want to see as many pictures as possible. There are some very good builder logs on the web that I reference a lot, but the more pictures I can get my beady little eyes on the more intuitive my plans become. Not to mention the paint schemes...... Cheers... Evan Johnson www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:28 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Off topic FAA user fees --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > "Once the camel's nose is under the tent" Democracy stinks. (g) Do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:27 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: RV-List: Need input "rocket-list" , INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" My son (wife & two grandsons) is now living in Everett, Washington. I'm looking for a source in that area for him to continue with flight training. He has not flown except with me or Tom in the Rocket in 8-10 years. I'm going up there for Christmas & think flight training/ground school etc would make a great Christmas gift. Need input from someone in that area. KABONG HRII N561FS MERRY CHRISTMAS. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons From: Gerry Filby --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby The variation from plane to plane is kinda built into the process - when you get to the point of puting together the forward cabin section you trim the forward end of the longeron to fit ... don't worry about it - move right along ... g g > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter > > Hi Trevor: > > I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the > curve do not > match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before > bending, but I > marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them, > then after > bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I > double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my > opinion the drawing is flat out wrong. > > Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point > on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where > the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in > horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending. > > Jamie > > RV-7A Forward Fuselage > http://rv.jpainter.org > > > Trevor wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" > > > >Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct? > >Trevor > >RV-7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:02 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Charlie are you sure about the Skydrol? We were on a flight test in a DHC8-400 a while back which blew a propeller governor seal and sprayed the fuse with fluid. We had a mechanic on board and he was talking about skydrol and how it was (if I recall correctly) surfactant based. He talked about how you could tell if it was skydrol by putting a little bit on your tongue and that the manufacturer bragged about how NON TOXIC it is. I hadn't heard anyone mention skydrol until you did but have been wondering if maybe IT is the ideal brake fluid for use in our aircraft (my understanding was that it was NON toxic and NON flammable which, to me, sounds ideal, even with the extra cost, lets just hope it's hygroscopic also). Maybe an A&P with experience on large commercial aircraft can clear up my confusion? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM No airframe/engine parts left in the FWF kit (still some wiring though) -----Original Message----- Time: 11:54:54 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: DOT-5 Brake Fluid ..... Interestingly, it is good for use with Skydrol. However Skydrol has draw backs which make it less than ideal for light aircraft use. (Toxic, not readily available at small airports, expensive, and burns at an elevated level) Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:21 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Modifications, airworthiness and insurance. --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" I agree with you 100% Sam (even though my plane is 99.999% per Van's plans). But...I caution everyone on an episode I heard about concerning major mods made AFTER THE AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE WAS ISSUED! If I recall correctly the aircraft was a Varieze and the owner had replaced the original propeller with one of a different design and manufacturer. This was with the old operating limitations before the FAA let experimental owners put themselves back into a 5 hour flight test phase(phase 1, after a post certification major mod) and then re-certify the aircraft safe for flight after the 5 hour test. Back then.... the Varieze owner should have contacted the FAA who would have then told him to go back into flight test phase and reworked his paperwork on the experimental cert. Since the varieze owner did not do that and the new prop was not specified on his airworthiness certificate, the insurance company would NOT PAY when the prop came apart and he had to dead-stick into a field. With the new operating limitations we ARE allowed to perform major mods (after obtaining our airworthiness certificates) without contacting the FAA. But, we MUST log the change, PLACE OURSELVES BACK INTO PHASE 1 FLIGHT TEST AND, sign off the test time just as we did when we first flew our pocket rockets. Just FYI!! Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM All FWF parts are on the airplane(except a bit of wiring) -----Original Message----- Time: 08:14:06 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance and Brake Fluid .....They will have to pry my experimental airworthiness certificate out of my cold, cold hands before I would ever agree to telling the insurance carrier of the mods in my RV-6!...... IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!!!!!!! There.......I feel better............. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:25 PM PST US From: "Paul Sidey" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Sidey" I just wanted to follow up and ask you to take a look at our new web sites. www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey It is so simple to prospect with and I have had people enroll before Ive even had a chance to call them because they saw the awesome opportunity to be on the ground floor of this project with the Star Power of the Nike of Nutrition and the team that is being built. Best regards, Paul Sidey Tel: 303-537-3283 Fax: 303-537-3284 email: psidey@msn.com http://www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey http://www.secretsofthemillionairemind.com/a/dollarsandsense http://tomchenault.com If you don't want to be on this list anymore, just type REMOVE and send back. I do NOT want to spam you and I promise you won't hurt my feelings. (Except you, mom) Thanks!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS Subject: RV-List: RE: Brake fluid-Skydrol --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Charlie are you sure about the Skydrol? We were on a flight test in a DHC8-400 a while back which blew a propeller governor seal and sprayed the fuse with fluid. We had a mechanic on board and he was talking about skydrol and how it was (if I recall correctly) surfactant based. He talked about how you could tell if it was skydrol by putting a little bit on your tongue and that the manufacturer bragged about how NON TOXIC it is. I hadn't heard anyone mention skydrol until you did but have been wondering if maybe IT is the ideal brake fluid for use in our aircraft (my understanding was that it was NON toxic and NON flammable which, to me, sounds ideal, even with the extra cost, lets just hope it's hygroscopic also). Maybe an A&P with experience on large commercial aircraft can clear up my confusion? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM No airframe/engine parts left in the FWF kit (still some wiring though) -----Original Message----- Time: 11:54:54 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: DOT-5 Brake Fluid .... Interestingly, it is good for use with Skydrol. However Skydrol has draw backs which make it less than ideal for light aircraft use. (Toxic, not readily available at small airports, expensive, and burns at an elevated level) Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:02 PM PST US From: "Paul Sidey" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Sidey" I just wanted to follow up and ask you to take a look at our new web sites. www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey It is so simple to prospect with and I have had people enroll before Ive even had a chance to call them because they saw the awesome opportunity to be on the ground floor of this project with the Star Power of the Nike of Nutrition and the team that is being built. Best regards, Paul Sidey Tel: 303-537-3283 Fax: 303-537-3284 email: psidey@msn.com http://www.xelr8.biz/PaulSidey http://www.secretsofthemillionairemind.com/a/dollarsandsense http://tomchenault.com If you don't want to be on this list anymore, just type REMOVE and send back. I do NOT want to spam you and I promise you won't hurt my feelings. (Except you, mom) Thanks!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Subject: Re: RV-List: Bending F-718 Longerons --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby The variation from plane to plane is kinda built into the process - when you get to the point of puting together the forward cabin section you trim the forward end of the longeron to fit ... don't worry about it - move right along ... g g > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jamie Painter > > Hi Trevor: > > I found the same exact thing. The points identified on the > curve do not > match the measurements. Yes, the measurements are before > bending, but I > marked the measurements on my longeron *before* bending them, > then after > bending them the measurements did not line up with the drawing. I > double-checked the measurements and everything was on the money. In my > opinion the drawing is flat out wrong. > > Fortunately, if I remember correctly, the difference in the bend point > on the longeron doesn't really matter that much because this is where > the bend is very shallow (almost nil). Getting close counts in > horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and longeron bending. > > Jamie > > RV-7A Forward Fuselage > http://rv.jpainter.org > > > Trevor wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Trevor" > > > >Vans refers to drawing 17A for the "Bending Template" where the section between stations 38 7/16" and 69 9/32"are shown. Except that the distance between these stations is incorrect if one puts a tape along the curve - out by +/- 1/2" Anyone found this and if so which station did you take to be correct? > >Trevor > >RV-7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177