Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (RAS)
3. 04:08 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (RAS)
4. 05:12 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Vern W.)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (LarryRobertHelming)
7. 07:59 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (SteinAir, Inc.)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Sam Buchanan)
9. 08:53 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Tim Bryan)
10. 09:12 AM - RV8 Golf Club Rack (Doug Bell)
11. 09:29 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Mickey Coggins)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (RAS)
13. 10:23 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Alan & Linda Daniels)
14. 11:40 AM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
15. 12:25 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Kevin Horton)
16. 12:39 PM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid ()
17. 01:06 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (lancenewman)
18. 01:10 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Vern W.)
19. 01:30 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
20. 03:17 PM - Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid (Ed Anderson)
21. 03:23 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
22. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
23. 04:44 PM - Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Vanremog@aol.com)
24. 05:31 PM - Re: Dynon Failure Modes Revisited (Larry Pardue)
25. 05:40 PM - Spraylat removal (RGray67968@aol.com)
26. 07:12 PM - Re: Spraylat removal (Dick DeCramer)
27. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (News@RV-7A.net)
28. 08:49 PM - Re: Spraylat removal (Bruce Gray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
What?
" I would hope the other RV-7 builders feel the same way."
I know of none.
Nice post BC. Most helpful. Who are you and why are you hanging out in
an experimental message board?
And to Aubrey, Mickeys post is very accurate. I'd go ahead and mount it
aft.
Best
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of UFOBUCK@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
--> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
I think you should put the battery anywhere you want.
You've not followed Van's recommendations relative to the powerplant and
you
damn sure shouldn't call it a RV-7A.
I would hope the other RV-7 builders feel the same way. When the
airplane
bites you in the butt I don't think that they should get painted with
the same
brush of building and flying an unsound airplane.
By the way I said "when" it bites you, not" if"'.
BClary
RV-6A finished, flown and sold
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Hi,
As much as you seem to have ideas about an individual whom moves from the
"standards" and shouldn't call his aeroplane an RV, perhaps you should
remove yourself from this list since you have sold on your RV6A,perhaps at
the going market value, therefore making profit, which crosses the
definition of the amateur class under FAA regulations ( the motivation of
course here would be equality). I most sincerely hope for you that the
present owner of the RV6A you constructed shall never have any misfortune,
you might find yourself in some difficult for an 'unsound' aircraft yourself
as the manufacteror of the aeroplane.
I will finish this post by stating clearly that the RV7 is approved for
200HP lycoming engines and that no further definition is given as to which
exact sub model of the 200HP 360 series lycoming is used. The only guidance
in the respect of submodels is that some will fit better and easier than
others, and to aid this vans has put together a generic firewall forward
kit. I must be terribly mistaken, but I thought for years that this list was
in excistence to help one and other with small niggly problems one runs into
every now and then.
Marcel
RV4
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <UFOBUCK@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
>
> I think you should put the battery anywhere you want.
> You've not followed Van's recommendations relative to the powerplant and
> you
> damn sure shouldn't call it a RV-7A.
> I would hope the other RV-7 builders feel the same way. When the airplane
> bites you in the butt I don't think that they should get painted with the
> same
> brush of building and flying an unsound airplane.
> By the way I said "when" it bites you, not" if"'.
>
> BClary
> RV-6A finished, flown and sold
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
hi
as mickey suggested, you can wait until finished. Another option is to find
someone who is operating a 200HP RV7A with a non turbo engine and ask them
for a copy of the weight and balance schedule to get a rough idea of the
envelope. If you go this way do of course pay particular attention to the
equipment fitted to the aircraft in question as this will also effect
balance. I don't know about the 7A, but most 7's tend to be somewhat heavy
at the tail, which generally doesn't prove to be problematic, unless you fly
at all up weight and you fly the tanks almost empty at which point the C of
G runs aft from where you started. So in your final descision calculate the
aft of Cof G position at all up weight at departure on a max endurance
flight and see where the CofG ends up after say three and a half hours at
sea level. When at this position you might find you dont want the battery
aft of the rear bulkhead, but on the tunnel on the inside of the firewall,
for example.
marcel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
--> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
I think you should put the battery anywhere you want.
You've not followed Van's recommendations relative to the powerplant and
you
damn sure shouldn't call it a RV-7A.
I would hope the other RV-7 builders feel the same way. When the airplane
bites you in the butt I don't think that they should get painted with the
same
brush of building and flying an unsound airplane.
By the way I said "when" it bites you, not" if"'.
BClary
RV-6A finished, flown and sold
Codswallop.
Do not archive.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vern W." <highflight1@gmail.com>
Aubrey,
The first answer you got may have been a bit harsh, but he was certainly
correct about his attitude concerning a turbocharger. When one RV'er hurts
himself by going outside the design of the aircraft, it hurts all of us if
in no other way than by increased insurance rates.
Keeping in mind that a turbo mainly helps at altitude, it will give you much
more power than a normally aspirated engine. You might think that's great,
but carefully consider the linked article written by none other than Ken
Krueger himself from Vans.
If you read it thoroughly and thoughfully, you may want to rethink the
turbo.
I'm basically saying the same thing as BC but being considerably more polite
about it :-)
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
Vern
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
do not archive. I think the plane should be called something other than an
RV7/A. It is not built/equipped as the kit designer specified. OH, and by
the way -- Good luck with getting the airworthiness certificate and
insurance. I hope like type risk takers do not alter my risk category of my
plans built RV7, nor prompt the FAA to come up with more regulations
concerning homebuilt experimental if they kill or harm someone. Builders
like this do us all a disservice in my opinion. I do not want to associate
with them; So, I do not get concerned if they gets mad, is embarrassed, or
what EVER. Wake up! We ain't just kids throwing bigger and bigger rocks
.......... .
More importantly, Best wishes to all for this Christmas.
Indiana Larry, Plans built RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 77 hours
Message 7
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| Subject: | Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Aubrey,
I'll stay away from the argument of about the whole engine combination and
give you my thoughts on Battery Placement.
Undoubtedly the airplane is going to lean towards being nose heavy with that
configuration. That being said, moving the battery is moving a lot of weight
and hence a lot of moment with it. It depends on a couple things before I'd
openly recommend just moving it.
Are you using a Hartzell C/S or other composite like MT/Whirlwind or
Aerocomposites?
Are you planning on a Concorde Battery or the lighter Odyssey?
Are any other parts of the airplane going to be a little bit heavier than
normal besides the firewall forward?
Did you mount the ELT in the back?
Did you mount the strobe power packs in the back?
Autopilot servo in the back?
Any additional "stuff" in the back like AHRS boxes, etc...?
The above items can/will all affect the W&B more than you might think. That
being said, it'll probably end up being a good idea to put it in back
anyway. It's better to do that than add ballast - Ballast is an ok
solution, but you're then you'll be draggin around even more dead weight.
Here's how I'd attack it.....I'd be inclined to at least get the engine/prop
hung and do a prelim W&B just to see where you'll be at. Since you're
already well outside the normal curve of RV's, it wouldn't be wise just to
randomly place the battery someplace without knowing exactly what/where it
needs to be. This whole thing could either make your RV a pig to fly or end
up being nicely balanced (both statements being relative to standard RV's).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aubrey
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:20 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aubrey" <aprice@fastspot.net>
>
> I am building an RV7a with a IO 360 / 200 HP with Turbo Charger.
> The engine
> is 40 pounds heavier plus the turbo. Should the battery be moved
> aft because
> of the added weight.
>
> Aubrey Price
> N600AP
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> I think the plane should be called something other than an
> RV7/A. It is not built/equipped as the kit designer specified. OH, and by
> the way -- Good luck with getting the airworthiness certificate and
> insurance. I hope like type risk takers do not alter my risk category of my
> plans built RV7, nor prompt the FAA to come up with more regulations
> concerning homebuilt experimental if they kill or harm someone. Builders
> like this do us all a disservice in my opinion. I do not want to associate
> with them; So, I do not get concerned if they gets mad, is embarrassed, or
> what EVER. Wake up! We ain't just kids throwing bigger and bigger rocks
> .......... .
Interesting thread. I agree the points raised concerning W/B, flutter
speed, insurance, and certification all are matters which the builder of
a turbocharged RV-7A will need to address. Prudence and consideration
for the aviation community dictates that any modifications be carefully
considered and vetted for safety and airworthiness problems.
But..........are we seeing the demise of "experimental aviation"?
Wonder if Van had to tolerate nay-sayers when he decided to modify the
wing of his Stits Playboy and install a larger engine, and then had the
nerve to call the thing an RV-3?
Wonder if all the Harmon and Team Rocket pilots wish their planes had
been nipped in the design phase by those who said modifying an RV-4
would result in the death of experimental aviation?
Wonder how the Subie brethren view the opinions of those who say a
turbocharger has no place in an RV?
And........what would have happened if the innovative avionics industry
had listened to the very vocal and insistent voices that yelled about
solid-state accelerometers having no place in our panels??
And pity the poor guy who is audacious enough to DESIGN HIS OWN PLANE!!!
There is no doubt we are seeing pressure being exerted on the
experimental aviation community by regulatory and insurance authorities.
Our ability to modify their intents may be limited, but I find it
interesting that in many cases, the biggest hurdle an innovator has to
jump is the objections of fellow "experimental" aviation enthusiasts.
Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that modifying/improving
existing designs was just too........risky...................
Sam Buchanan
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
Very Well Put! and right on.
DNA
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> I think the plane should be called something other than an
> RV7/A. It is not built/equipped as the kit designer specified. OH, and
by
> the way -- Good luck with getting the airworthiness certificate and
> insurance. I hope like type risk takers do not alter my risk category of
my
> plans built RV7, nor prompt the FAA to come up with more regulations
> concerning homebuilt experimental if they kill or harm someone. Builders
> like this do us all a disservice in my opinion. I do not want to
associate
> with them; So, I do not get concerned if they gets mad, is embarrassed, or
> what EVER. Wake up! We ain't just kids throwing bigger and bigger rocks
> .......... .
Interesting thread. I agree the points raised concerning W/B, flutter
speed, insurance, and certification all are matters which the builder of
a turbocharged RV-7A will need to address. Prudence and consideration
for the aviation community dictates that any modifications be carefully
considered and vetted for safety and airworthiness problems.
But..........are we seeing the demise of "experimental aviation"?
Wonder if Van had to tolerate nay-sayers when he decided to modify the
wing of his Stits Playboy and install a larger engine, and then had the
nerve to call the thing an RV-3?
Wonder if all the Harmon and Team Rocket pilots wish their planes had
been nipped in the design phase by those who said modifying an RV-4
would result in the death of experimental aviation?
Wonder how the Subie brethren view the opinions of those who say a
turbocharger has no place in an RV?
And........what would have happened if the innovative avionics industry
had listened to the very vocal and insistent voices that yelled about
solid-state accelerometers having no place in our panels??
And pity the poor guy who is audacious enough to DESIGN HIS OWN PLANE!!!
There is no doubt we are seeing pressure being exerted on the
experimental aviation community by regulatory and insurance authorities.
Our ability to modify their intents may be limited, but I find it
interesting that in many cases, the biggest hurdle an innovator has to
jump is the objections of fellow "experimental" aviation enthusiasts.
Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that modifying/improving
existing designs was just too........risky...................
Sam Buchanan
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV8 Golf Club Rack |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Bell" <DBell@ManisteeNational.com>
Fellow builders,
A long talked about golf club rack is finally installed on our 8, problem is
now that we're snowed in!....well Spring is not that far away.
I had this idea for along time and in his spare time my father designed and
installed it. We have posted several pictures of the rack on Doug Reeves
Site for any that would like to look at it.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=26960#poststop
Enjoy and Merry Christmas to all of you.
Doug Bell
N266WB
Manistee, MI
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I agree. Keep on experimenting, guys!
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> ...
> Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that modifying/improving
> existing designs was just too........risky...................
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
At risk of pooring some oil on this fire...........
I don't remember such vocal activety when someone decided to stretch his six
with two rearward facing seats and shoehorn a 540 under the cowling.
dare I ask as what type the Exxon Tiger is registered? If I'm not mistaking
it started life as a RV4, possibly in a similar fashion as the early
Rockets.
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> I agree. Keep on experimenting, guys!
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
>> ...
>> Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that modifying/improving
>> existing designs was just too........risky...................
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Some people are kit plane assemblers, and some enjoy the more
challenging experimental aircraft. I have done both, and found building
per instructions is much easier, but trying a different engine with my
own firewall forward was more satisfying. Insurance is a factor with
some now not wanting to cover a non aircraft engine, especially if you
designed your own redrive, ignition or other component. If you want to
be totally safe stop flying, and experimental aircraft hour per hour is
something like 8 times more dangerous than certified aircraft. If you
want a plane, and you want it standard go buy a Cessna. Life is short -
most of my close friends are already dead , heart attacks - certified
plane crash- experimental plane crash- cancer. If you get away from
manufactures instructions I think the most important thing to do is park
you ego and get input from others that have tried similar things and
learn from them, and have them review what you are doing. Kit
manufactures HAVE to be very careful about what they say for liability
reasons. I have seen some really good work on airplanes, but I have also
seen some really poorly thought out and built experimental aircraft. A
turbo 7A is really not that much of a stretch. If you live at sea level
it might not seem like a good idea, but if you fly off high density
altitude airports or fly over the rockies it might just be a good safety
idea. Build what you want, build it good, get help, fly safe, be free
and enjoy life. IMHO
DNA
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>I agree. Keep on experimenting, guys!
>
>Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
>>...
>>Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that modifying/improving
>>existing designs was just too........risky...................
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Umm, if you guys are trying to use DNA as Do Not Archive, it doesn't work that
way. You have to spell out "do not archive" somewhere in the message.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda Daniels
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
--> RV-List message posted by: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Some people are kit plane assemblers, and some enjoy the more challenging experimental
aircraft. I have done both, and found building per instructions is much
easier, but trying a different engine with my own firewall forward was more
satisfying. Insurance is a factor with some now not wanting to cover a non aircraft
engine, especially if you designed your own redrive, ignition or other component.
If you want to be totally safe stop flying, and experimental aircraft
hour per hour is something like 8 times more dangerous than certified aircraft.
If you want a plane, and you want it standard go buy a Cessna. Life is short
- most of my close friends are already dead , heart attacks - certified plane
crash- experimental plane crash- cancer. If you get away from manufactures
instructions I think the most important thing to do is park you ego and get input
from others that have tried similar things and learn from them, and have them
review what you are doing. Kit manufactures HAVE to be very careful about
what they say for liability reasons. I have seen some really good work on airplanes,
but I have also seen some really poorly thought out and built experimental
aircraft. A turbo 7A is really not that much of a stretch. If you live at
sea level it might not seem like a good idea, but if you fly off high density
altitude airports or fly over the rockies it might just be a good safety idea.
Build what you want, build it good, get help, fly safe, be free and enjoy life.
IMHO
DNA
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>I agree. Keep on experimenting, guys!
>
>Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
>>...
>>Where would we be if folks like Van had decided that
>>modifying/improving existing designs was just too........risky...................
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aubrey" <aprice@fastspot.net>
>
> I am building an RV7a with a IO 360 / 200 HP with Turbo Charger.
> The engine
> is 40 pounds heavier plus the turbo. Should the battery be moved
> aft because
> of the added weight.
Mathematics is your friend. You are adding weight ahead of the CG.
This creates a nose down moment which is equal to the additional
weight, times the distance from that weight to the aircraft's CG.
You need to counter that with a nose up moment. This new moment is
created by moving something (or somethings) aft. The nose up moment
created by each movement is equal to the weight of the item moved,
times the distance it is moved aft.
You figure your mods add 40 lb to the engine over a normally
aspirated IO-360. Figure where the centre of that extra 40 lb is
located, and measure the distance from there to the centre of where
Van says the CG range is. For the sake of an example, lets say that
this is 35 inches (I have no idea if this is the right distance or
not). So, the nose down moment is 40 lb X 35 inches = 1400 in-lb.
Measure the weight of your battery, or find the weight of the battery
you intend to use. Let's say it is 15 lb. You need to move it aft
by 1400 in-lb/15 lb = 93 inches. If you can't move it that far aft,
then find some additional items to move, or find some weight savings
ahead of the CG. A weight savings creates a nose up moment equal to
the weight savings times the distance to the CG.
Caution - I used fictitious numbers to flesh out the example. Do the
math with your numbers to find the answer for your aircraft.
I won't get into the argument as to whether a turbo is a good idea or
not. If the mod is done properly, with proper consideration of all
the issues, properly flight tested, and then flown with due
consideration of the RV's design, then it could be a success. If the
mod is not properly conceived, or is not adequately tested, or is
flown without proper care, then the likelihood of an accident is
greatly increased. The devil is in the details.
Be careful. Fly safe. Have fun.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Who is ACI and the links no work-ee? Thanks George\\\
From: Vanremog@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid
Listers-
For those of you who wish to upgrade from the flammable
MIL-H-5606 hydraulic brake fluid to the more flame resistant
MIL-PRF-83282, be advised that you can buy a 1 gallon can
from ACI at a price of $18.00 plus shipping. It is compatible
with all Buna-n (Nitrile) and Viton (Fluorocarbon) seals and
the old
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lancenewman" <lancenewman@comcast.net>
Come on guys,
If you not going to carefully think out your response to a posting such
as this, don't respond. It doesn't help anyone. As far as the battery
location in the 200hp turbo RV. This is just my own commentary, but at least
I have some time in an RV6 and know some of the weight and balance
considerations I ran into when flight testing my airplane. Consider the
following for what it is worth.
1. More weight up front means more pitch stability. Improved stall spin
recovery characteristics and heavier stick pressure. Requires more trim
authority and is not quite as light in control force in the landing flare.
The increased trim forces will slow the airplane down slightly, but not
much. In take off and landing, the pilot will need to be more careful not
to carry undue pressure on the famous glass nose gear.
2. More weight in the rear will result in light stick forces, slightly
faster cruise speed, less trim required to achieve level flight
characteristics, less stall spin recovery authority, and higher pitch angle
on take-off resulting in increase chance of stall. Way too much weight in
the rear can result in reverse control characteristic and a dangerous
airplane to fly. I'd stick with more weight up front.
3. In regard to the turbo fuel injected 200 hp 360 engine. Why bother with
the additional weight and complexity of the turbo system when you already
have a hot rod with the fuel injected 360 RV7A. 24,000 ft ceiling, no carb
icing and rate of climbs in the neighborhood of 2000 to 2500 fpm not enough
for you? You must be a real fighter pilot with a lot of time in small high
performance airplanes. If you like the added maintenance hassles and heat
issues associated with the turbo system. Be my guest.
4. And finally, putting the battery back in the baggage compartment will
result in more voltage drop across the cable necessitating a large guage
wire, #2 to prevent weak starts, especially when it is cold and the battery
has been sitting for a while without a charge. If you have ever hand propped
an RV with a big engine, you won't want to do it very often.
CU,
Lance
Newman
200
hours on an RV6
Still
getting 180mph on 8gph
with
0320 FP prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Aubrey,
>
> Lots of people who put heavier engines install the batteries
> in or behind the baggage area. Some use a bit of lead way
> back on top of the empennage, just under the vertical stabilizer.
> Another option is to wait until you are finished, and add
> ballast to the baggage area when you fly empty. It seems
> the -10 guys also do this to get a bit more elevator authority
> when landing.
>
> Running the battery cables to the baggage area is a bit of
> a hassle, but not too bad. With the additional size and
> heat of the turbo, it might be good to get the battery
> off the firewall.
>
>
>> I am building an RV7a with a IO 360 / 200 HP with Turbo Charger. The
>> engine
>> is 40 pounds heavier plus the turbo. Should the battery be moved aft
>> because
>> of the added weight.
>>
>> Aubrey Price
>> N600AP
>>
>>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vern W." <highflight1@gmail.com>
All here make good points.
I still feel that turbocharging an aircraft that is already capable of
flying near it's VNE with a normally aspirated engine may be foolish because
the aircraft will then easily fly faster than the airframes VNE (Auburn said
nothing about modifying the wings or any part of his RV to increase the VNE
of HIS particular aircraft).
However, I wasn't intending to have MY opinion discourage him because, as
has been noted, this is the Experimental category.
What I WAS trying to do was to do my best to alert Aubrey to that particular
article by Ken Krueger because Ken directly addresses the issue that Aubrey
will have to deal with. If Aubrey truly understands what Ken explained and
what the ramifications are, and Aubrey then feels that turbocharging is
worth his life in order to dabble with an experiment that violates known
laws of physics, then he certainly has the freedom and the right to be a
personal witness to having his elevators and ailerons ripped from his
aircraft at 10,000 feet.
Of course there have been pioneers in Experimental aviation, and Van himself
is one of them. But I'm reasonably sure that he didn't just strap on a
bigger engine to a Playboy, hop in it, and "Experiment". I'll bet you that
he carefully considered wing design and other structural issues before he
did that, and modified more than just bolting on a bigger engine. If I am
wrong about that, then Van is lucky to be alive and all of us RV owners may
be at some risk if that's how Van does things.
The only thing Aubrey is doing is to bolt on a engine to fly faster with an
existing design that was not designed for it. That's not "Experimental"
aviation, that's suicide. I might as well bolt in a turbojet engine that
will take my RV to 400mph. Even those who espouse the spirit of
"Experimental" aviation would think me foolish, but my 400mph RV and
Aubrey's 250mph RV would both be flying beyond established VNE. Both of our
flight surfaces will still explode and pop off at the same speed on our way
up to our "intended" speed.
Let's get real here. Hardly any of us are willing to "Experiment" with our
RV's. The reason I'll bet that most of us chose the RV design is because it
ISN'T that "experimental" anymore. It's a proven design that, if built to
recommended spec, will build fast, fly fast, and fly safely for as long as
we own them. Many of us are married (and/or with kids) and don't wish to
"experiment" with our lives for the sake of a hobby if we can help it.
I'm not landing firmly on either side of the issue other than to hope that
anytime someone deviates significantly from the proven RV design, that they
do a LOT of research and understand ALL of the possible consequences and do
not make ANY assumptions about things of which they may not fully
understand.
I don't know Aubrey personally, but even then, and with all the insurance
and public relations issues aside, I would prefer to see him live out a long
and happy life rather than to be a spot in the middle of a corn field and a
one-day newspaper headline. Not if it means that he tried something that he
didn't fully understand and would not have done had he done all the research
and weighed the risks beforehand.
Now if Aubrey wants to chime back in and explain how he has done the
research in order to modify his wings and empennage and control surfaces to
easily accomodate the higher speeds his engine installation will allow, then
not only would he have my full support, but I'd like to see him share that
info with others so some of us could build an "UberRV7a".
If the -8 can be modified to be a Rocket, maybe a modified -7 could be
called a Missile. Yea, I like that; we could see the beginning of a safe and
really fast airplane called an "RV7Missile".
Now THAT tugs at my "Experimental" heart. I can hear it now: "Missile
54Charlie, incoming on downwind for 33".
I could say that's my .02, but I'm thinkin' this note was more like a
quarter or so :-)
Vern
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
I wonder if anyone else has done this so far... seems I read or heard about
this, maybe not on the 200HP version however. Hard to imagine where everything
goes in these already tight cowlings. Then there is the heat dissipation
bugaboo... Do you know about your exhaust routing yet?
Pretty neat to be able to pull HP at altitude, though... A friend, George
Adkins ,reports pulling 31" in his supercharged Eggenfellner 2.5 Subie above
10,000'.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
In a message dated 12/23/2005 12:13:28 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Time: 05:22:36 PM PST US
From: "Aubrey" <aprice@fastspot.net>
Subject: RV-List: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aubrey" <aprice@fastspot.net>
I am building an RV7a with a IO 360 / 200 HP with Turbo Charger. The engine
is 40 pounds heavier plus the turbo. Should the battery be moved aft because
of the added weight.
Aubrey Price
N600AP
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
ACI Lubes was the source I got my MIL-PRF-83282 from. They have it either
in gallon containers ($18.00) or you can order a case of 24 quarts
(Christmas presents for you flying friends {:>)) for $98.85
Here is there URL
http://commerce.acilubes.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=7
if that doesn't get you to the page, try:
http://commerce.acilubes.com/
and click on left menu item "Hydraulic Fluids"
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Who is ACI and the links no work-ee? Thanks George\\\
>
>
> From: Vanremog@aol.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: MIL-PRF-83282 Brake (Hydraulic) Fluid
>
> Listers-
>
> For those of you who wish to upgrade from the flammable
> MIL-H-5606 hydraulic brake fluid to the more flame resistant
> MIL-PRF-83282, be advised that you can buy a 1 gallon can
> from ACI at a price of $18.00 plus shipping. It is compatible
> with all Buna-n (Nitrile) and Viton (Fluorocarbon) seals and
> the old
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
> whatever.
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
BC, u sure are a nice, friendly guy. Why don't u just go fly a
kite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doug Preston
RV7
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/23/2005 3:31:34 PM Central Standard Time,
Jerry2DT@aol.com writes:
I wonder if anyone else has done this so far...
>>>
Mark and Pete Rowe turboed (NOT TUBROED!! 8-) their RV-8 known as "Grezdlitn"
and were featured in a SA article a year or so ago- seem to recall they even
made the cover) and reported on some of the teething problems they
encountered- might want to reiview the article and/or get in touch with them for
info...
Mark do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 12/23/2005 12:26:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
khorton01@rogers.com writes:
Mathematics is your friend. You are adding weight ahead of the CG.
This creates a nose down moment which is equal to the additional
weight, times the distance from that weight to the aircraft's CG.
You need to counter that with a nose up moment. This new moment is
created by moving something (or somethings) aft. The nose up moment
created by each movement is equal to the weight of the item moved,
times the distance it is moved aft.
You figure your mods add 40 lb to the engine over a normally
aspirated IO-360. Figure where the centre of that extra 40 lb is
located, and measure the distance from there to the centre of where
Van says the CG range is. For the sake of an example, lets say that
this is 35 inches (I have no idea if this is the right distance or
not). So, the nose down moment is 40 lb X 35 inches = 1400 in-lb.
Measure the weight of your battery, or find the weight of the battery
you intend to use. Let's say it is 15 lb. You need to move it aft
by 1400 in-lb/15 lb = 93 inches. If you can't move it that far aft,
then find some additional items to move, or find some weight savings
ahead of the CG. A weight savings creates a nose up moment equal to
the weight savings times the distance to the CG.
========================================
Be careful that you consider the polar moment of inertia problem as well.
Think dumbbells vs bowling balls. Both have the cg in the center, but boy oh
boy are the spin characteristics different.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 771hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Modes Revisited |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Howdy,
I reported on a failure of the rate-of-turn indicator and attitude
indicator of my Dynon EFIS D-10A, shortly after having it returned
from service for a hardware failure.
Dynon sent me a reset file that I finally was able to try today. It
seems to have completely restored proper operation. Nice to not have
to send the unit back.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | Spraylat removal |
--> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
I just picked up an RV4 project to (hopefully) finish and fly in a very
short time.
The canopy was sprayed with 'Spraylat' (I think) and this stuff seems to be
tough as nails. Anybody have experience getting this stuff off??
An archive search provided one method that I pasted below.
Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 Sold, RV8 project completed, RV10 and
F1 Rocket under construction, & RV4 project on the front burner!!
Hi listers,
I posted a question a while ago about removing dried out spraylat from an
old rv-4 canopy. I didn't get any responses so I assume it is not a common
problem. This post is to let any future builders with this problem know how
I finally solved it.
The canopy with the problem was 11 years old and the coating had dried so
bad it was no different than thin dried latex paint. Spraylat and Vans both
had no other suggestions than trying to wet the coating with hot soapy water
to soften it. This helped but the coating still required scraping which
would scratch the canopy surface. Some listers on a Long-eze list mentioned
using high pressure air and a small nozzle to blow the coating loose. This
was also unsuccessful but gave me an idea! I soaked the canopy in water for
3 days then rented a 3500psi pressure washer and my problem was solved. The
pressure washer removed the coating quickly and easily and was welcomed end
to a problem that had started to delay the progress on my kit.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 fuse almost done
Engine being rebuilt
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Spraylat removal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel@rconnect.com>
There was a message posted to the list on removing old, dried spraylat, a
latex rubber like protectorant, from a canopy without scratching the
plastic. Pressure washing, soaking in water, air pressure etc. was used to
remove it. I had the same problem. Spraylat is supposed to be sprayed on
in heavy layers but I brushed it too thin which caused the product to dry
out fairly severely over time. Removal was accomplished with less than a
quart of "3M Adhesive Remover" obtained from an auto parts store for $8 +
or-. The "Remover" is a clear petroleum based product with no abrasive
qualities, does not react with Plexiglas, and is clean to work with but
smells and seems like fuel oil or a kerosene type product. Squirt it on a
small area, leave it sit for a few minutes, and wipe the spraylat off with
a clean, soft rag. You may have to repeat the process a couple times to
get it all but no mechanical means are needed. My next project will have
the same treatment as the plexi had absolutely no scratches and I was able
to drag air hoses and extension cords across the plexi as well as drop
(accidently) clecoes, rivets, etc. on the plexi with no effect while
spraylat shielded the plastic. The spray late was only applied exposed
areas of the plexi and not under the aluminum or FG fairings. 3M Adhesive
Remover does not harm cured paint but may be difficult to paint over so I
painted the canopy frame complete before application. The remover will
easily removed dried masking tape residue as well. I highly suggest both
products.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD
100+ hrs
Northfield, MN
diesel@rconnect.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "News@RV-7A.net" <news@rv-7a.net>
Good article, it is online at
http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/grezdlitn_0402.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/23/2005 3:31:34 PM Central Standard Time,
> Jerry2DT@aol.com writes:
> I wonder if anyone else has done this so far...
>>>>
>
> Mark and Pete Rowe turboed (NOT TUBROED!! 8-) their RV-8 known as
> "Grezdlitn"
> and were featured in a SA article a year or so ago- seem to recall they
> even
> made the cover) and reported on some of the teething problems they
> encountered- might want to reiview the article and/or get in touch with
> them for info...
>
> Mark do not archive
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Spraylat removal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Usually the problem occurs because the original coat was too thin. Recoat
the spraylat with another 2 thick coats, wait 24 hours for final cure and
remove. The new coat should remove the old one.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RGray67968@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Spraylat removal
--> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
I just picked up an RV4 project to (hopefully) finish and fly in a very
short time.
The canopy was sprayed with 'Spraylat' (I think) and this stuff seems to be
tough as nails. Anybody have experience getting this stuff off??
An archive search provided one method that I pasted below.
Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 Sold, RV8 project completed, RV10
and
F1 Rocket under construction, & RV4 project on the front burner!!
Hi listers,
I posted a question a while ago about removing dried out spraylat from an
old rv-4 canopy. I didn't get any responses so I assume it is not a common
problem. This post is to let any future builders with this problem know how
I finally solved it.
The canopy with the problem was 11 years old and the coating had dried so
bad it was no different than thin dried latex paint. Spraylat and Vans
both
had no other suggestions than trying to wet the coating with hot soapy
water
to soften it. This helped but the coating still required scraping which
would scratch the canopy surface. Some listers on a Long-eze list
mentioned
using high pressure air and a small nozzle to blow the coating loose. This
was also unsuccessful but gave me an idea! I soaked the canopy in water
for
3 days then rented a 3500psi pressure washer and my problem was solved.
The
pressure washer removed the coating quickly and easily and was welcomed end
to a problem that had started to delay the progress on my kit.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 fuse almost done
Engine being rebuilt
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