---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/25/05: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 AM - Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars (Dave & Brenda Emond) 2. 02:53 AM - Re: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars (Mickey Coggins) 3. 04:03 AM - Re: Time in the tanks (Ron Lee) 4. 06:49 AM - Medical question (bertrv6@highstream.net) 5. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars (Larry Mac Donald) 6. 07:38 AM - Re: Medical question (Dan Beadle) 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Medical question (Bruce Gray) 8. 07:59 AM - Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. (Glen Matejcek) 9. 08:02 AM - CG issues, was Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A (Glen Matejcek) 10. 08:29 AM - Re: Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. (LessDragProd@aol.com) 11. 08:29 AM - RV6a fresh air vents (charles heathco) 12. 08:46 AM - Re: [RV7Yahoo] Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars (JohnR) 13. 09:03 AM - Re: Medical question (Chuck Jensen) 14. 10:23 AM - Re: RV6a fresh air vents (Ed Holyoke) 15. 12:02 PM - Re: Medical question (brian olofsson) 16. 12:10 PM - Re: RV6a fresh air vents (LARRY ADAMSON) 17. 12:38 PM - RV List...Re: Fresh Air Vents (Dick DeCramer) 18. 01:30 PM - Re: Medical question (Paul Besing) 19. 03:36 PM - Re: RV6a fresh air vents (Ed Bundy) 20. 09:23 PM - Re: Spraylat removal (Steven DiNieri) 21. 11:01 PM - Re: Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. (Jim Oke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:40 AM PST US From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond" Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when converting from inches to millibars. Merry Christmas to all. Dave Emond RV 10 - busy on canopy ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:03 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi Dave, Go here: http://www.onlineconversion.com/pressure.htm and select "inch of mercury [0 C]" in the left box, and "millibar" in the right box. Should get you close. Merry Christmas! Mickey > Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when > converting from inches to millibars. > > Merry Christmas to all. > > Dave Emond > RV 10 - busy on canopy > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:50 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RE: RV-List: Time in the tanks --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >A clock is good. A fuel totalizer is better. Read out the time to >waypoint on the GPS and compare it to the time till empty on the >totalizer then subtract 30 or 45 minutes for reserve. Ed's response to Michael's post is exactly what I do. My RMI engine monitor gives fuel duration (Time). GPS gives time to destination. As long as the GPS time to destination is appropriately less than the engine monitor (fuel totalizer) fuel duration I am fine. Of course my fuel gauges are fairly accurate and knowing my fuel burn rate at normal cruise provides the same functionality and cross-check with instruments. So in a way I actually do use TAS. I just assume that GPS groundspeed is TAS (zero wind assumption) but do not have to calculate it. My ASI does not do it like some will. In 800 hours of flying my RV-6A only once in my recollection have I needed to land short of my preferred fueling location but even that stop was a viable option at all points during the flight. Having the fuel totalizer "TIME TO EMPTY" and GPS time to destination provided clear and accurate decision-making info. Bottom line Michael: I agree with you. And Ed. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:45 AM PST US From: bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi: I would like to know if any one, that has been denied the renewal of medical certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in particular if this is due to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that is it... I have tried to get, the exact requirements or minimums that the FAA would consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio Vascular deficiencies, but I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. Bert rv6a. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars From: Larry Mac Donald --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Mac Donald 1 Millibar = 0.01450377 lb.?inch squared On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:00:51 +0200 "Dave & Brenda Emond" writes: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond" > > > > > Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when > converting from inches to millibars. > > Merry Christmas to all. > > Dave Emond > RV 10 - busy on canopy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Medical question From: "Dan Beadle" --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" First, there is a difference between denial and deferral. I have been deferred. The bottom line is I was grounded. In deferral, the local AME finds something that he is not happy about - maybe unsure of his knowledge of the standards. He kicks it upstairs to Okalahoma City. They review and either issue or deny. I have had a medical deferred over items that were clearly legal, where the AME had dated information. For me, it was LASIC - he said I could never fly again. After several weeks of agony, I had my medical back, but only due to the proactive efforts of a Senior AME. Having flown for 30 years, I was devastated. Looking back, this was a speed bump. Denial only comes from Oak City. They are issued after review there. So they are harder to unwind. Sometimes they are a result of not providing information they requested. Don't play and they must deny. I suspect that those are easier to fix. Hypothetical example: you disclose condition x. They ask for specialist report about x. You don't send it. So they deny. Give them a satisfactory report and they probably will issue. Cardio issues are tougher, but they seem to be issuing after a reasonable waiting period. I have marginal high blood pressure. In the old days, I would be denied. But with medication, my BP is 120/72, well within standards. They have never denied or deferred me based on that. I have read of people with bypass surgery being issued medicals after a couple years. Check out AOPA pages http://www.aopa.org/members/files/medical/cad.html After 6 months, you can potentially fly after bypass surgery. (This is about the same time that a cardiologist might clear you to play golf!) The key is to find a proactive Senior AME who wants to get you flying. I had a great one who saw his job as keeping me healthy enough to fly. The guy who caused me trouble saw his job as keeping people out of the air. I think both agreed that you should be healthy and safe to fly - but one wanted to help. In the end, he went to bat for me - called Oklahoma City. But he didn't fudge anything. Hope this helps. I know how you must feel. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi: I would like to know if any one, that has been denied the renewal of medical certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in particular if this is due to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that is it... I have tried to get, the exact requirements or minimums that the FAA would consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio Vascular deficiencies, but I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. Bert rv6a. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:58 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Try these guys. http://www.aviationmedicine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home&navID=1 Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi: I would like to know if any one, that has been denied the renewal of medical certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in particular if this is due to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that is it... I have tried to get, the exact requirements or minimums that the FAA would consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio Vascular deficiencies, but I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. Bert rv6a. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:46 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- Re: Just curious... how many RV accidents have there been that have been attributed to flutter? Well, that's just it. When operating in the regimes that the RV series of aircraft are limited to by their very design, flutter isn't really an issue. Putting a turbocharged engine up front opens up new (to the RV design) regimes and new possibilities, both good and bad. WRT flutter, and to put it very plainly, what we're talking about is an effect that can onset very rapidly and violently. It involves the 'springiness' of the airframe and control system, and is quite capable of causing control surfaces to slam stop-to-stop without deflecting the cockpit controls. I invite you to chew on that for a second. Now let's look at the pitch control system. Our elevators have balance weights at the tips only. How much paint you apply and how well you balance the surface impact their elasticity and flutter speed. Are your elevator horns drilled exactly the same? If not, there may be a slight difference in angle between the two surfaces. Is the bolt joining the horns tight? Worn a bit? All these things impact flutter resistance and are outside the control of Van's Aircraft. As such, I would be truly amazed (and buying the beer!) if anyone ever got the results of any flutter testing or calculation out of them, other than to offer the ubiquitous 'If you build and operate it according to our instructions, you'll be fine". There is an interesting discussion of the topic at http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/flutter.html that might be of interest that includes the mathematical relationship between Vno, Vne and Vd. As ever, do not archive this drivel, YMMV, FWIW- Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:13 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: CG issues, was Battery on 200 HP Tubro 7A --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Thanks Ken; That looks like it. >Maybe www.safeair1.com? > >Ken Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:19 AM PST US From: LessDragProd@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. --> RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com Vne is defined by FAR Part 23 as 90% of the design velocity. (Since only one person seems to have referenced FAR Part 23 when they called Van's Aircraft about Ken's RVator article, you can probably guess who that was.) :-) Vne on the RV-3 is 210 mph ias. You'll have to tell me what Van's Aircraft has for the other RV models. But I think it is typically 230 mph ias. Whatever it is, it needs to be placed as a red line at the end of the yellow arc on your airspeed indicator. Flutter speed is an unknown. By implication from Ken's RVator article, if you can achieve Vne at 20,000', you are close to the aircraft flutter speed. Just my guess. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 12/24/2005 4:34:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, ogoodwin@comcast.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Olen Goodwin" I've been following this thread, but may have missed something. My question is: What is the Vne based on? Flutter or gust loads? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:43 AM PST US From: "charles heathco" Subject: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents --> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" Tweetybird is chilly inside, hot air not sufecient to overcome leaks around the vent shut off, pluss other drafty openings, such as flap arm openings sucking air thru. I have considered duct taping over the vent entry, or fabricating some type of plug, problem being how to secure the latter. Not sure if the tape would tear off or not, Any suggestions?(I duct tape half the oil cooler intake in winter to get temp up to norm) Charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:43 AM PST US From: "JohnR" Subject: RV-List: RE: [RV7Yahoo] Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars --> RV-List message posted by: "JohnR" Try this (inHg32) * 33.8639 = (mb) JohnR _____ From: Dave & Brenda Emond [mailto:d_emond@mweb.co.za] Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when converting from inches to millibars. Merry Christmas to all. Dave Emond RV 10 - busy on canopy Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing www.vansaircraft.net _____ * Visit your group "RV7and7A " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . _____ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Medical question From: "Chuck Jensen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Bert, The Medical Appeals Section of the FAA in OK City will handle the medical appeal. If the AME didn't issue you the Third Degree, ops, Third Class Certificate on the spot, then he will have sent everything to OK (which is not to be confused with 'everything is Okay because with the Medical Appeals Section, thing rarely are organizationally okay', but I digress). OK should then have sent you a letter requesting certain medical information, for instance they may request a Maxil Stress Test with 12 lead, EKG with an interpretive letter from the attending physician as well as an assessment of your cardio history and prognosis. They'll also probably want a copy of your hospital records and who-knows-what-else. Currently, OK City doesn't even look at Medical Appeals for 90 days; finally after taking vacation, holidays, sick leave, smoke breaks and anything else they can possibly think of to extend the delay, they will look at it and then request additional information. If you start calling at day 100, then by 110-120, you should be getting a response. But know this; if you fail to submit a single thing requested, you will hear a 'GONG' and you will go directly to the FAA Waiting-Jail, do not pass certificate issuance. For instance, if you submit 'computer samples' or copies of your EKG test, you lose. They will require ORIGINAL computer tracings....nothing else. That is the kind of detail that you have to pay attention to. About the only good thing I can say about the process is when you fail to submit the data/documents that should have been included in the original submittal, you don't go to the back of the 120 day line, instead you go into the 30-45 day line. Finally, don't trust doctors, technicians, nurses to put together the information you need. You must take charge. When the doctor gives you his evaluation and prognosis letter, READ IT, don't just submit it. Look at each sentence. Look at the choice of words. If you see something that can be rephrased or reworded, go back to the doctor and discuss it with him and explain the situation. He won't lie for you but he'll accommodate you by putting the information in the best possible light if he can do so and still feel comfortable about it professionally. In the end, some of it depends on what the definition of "is" is. And, if flying is important to you and you don't belong to the AOPA, join and access their medical support personnel. It's just another thing to tilt in your favor. Finally, keep copies of every document, of every phone call of EVERYthing. Document control in OK is less than sterling, so be prepared to resubmit any and every thing. Apply the same detail orientated, focused approach to this Medical Appeals application that you did to build your plane and you have a reasonable chance, depending on your fact specific health situation. Bert, good health and hopefully, good flying. Chuck Jensen Hi: I would like to know if any one, that has been denied the renewal of medical certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in particular if this is due to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that is it... I have tried to get, the exact requirements or minimums that the FAA would consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio Vascular deficiencies, but I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. Bert rv6a. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:27 AM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Charlie, You could remove the hose where it attaches to the naca inlet and tape/plug it up there. Remove tape and put the hose back on when it warms up. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco Subject: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents --> RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco" Tweetybird is chilly inside, hot air not sufecient to overcome leaks around the vent shut off, pluss other drafty openings, such as flap arm openings sucking air thru. I have considered duct taping over the vent entry, or fabricating some type of plug, problem being how to secure the latter. Not sure if the tape would tear off or not, Any suggestions?(I duct tape half the oil cooler intake in winter to get temp up to norm) Charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:08 PM PST US From: brian olofsson Subject: Re: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: brian olofsson 9 Min. on standard treadmill, Bruce protocol. No signs of significant ischemia. Normalized B.P./chol/bloodsugar, 6months since last "event" and otherwise normal exam. The FAA has become much more lenient with this than in the past. I have had many patients "recertified" after deferred or denied. Now if your problem is severe cardiomyopathy with markedly decreased ejection fraction or recurrent arrythmia your chances are poor. Brian Olofsson M.D. AME bertrv6@highstream.net wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi: I would like to know if any one, that has been denied the renewal of medical certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in particular if this is due to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that is it... I have tried to get, the exact requirements or minimums that the FAA would consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio Vascular deficiencies, but I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. Bert rv6a. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:50 PM PST US From: "LARRY ADAMSON" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: charles heathco Subject: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents It seems that with the black plastic eye ball vents I got from Van's, that there was a recommendation to put a silicone bead against the vent door But it's been a few years since I looked at the instructions. Last year I flew in a RV9A with temps of minus 6 degrees F. and the heater vent barely open. Must have been sealed well, and the canopy was doing a good job of creating solar heat. Tweetybird is chilly inside, hot air not sufecient to overcome leaks around the vent shut off, pluss other drafty openings, such as flap arm openings sucking air thru. I have considered duct taping over the vent entry, or fabricating some type of plug, problem being how to secure the latter. Not sure if the tape would tear off or not, Any suggestions?(I duct tape half the oil cooler intake in winter to get temp up to norm) Charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:07 PM PST US From: "Dick DeCramer" Subject: RV-List: RV List...Re: Fresh Air Vents INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 --> RV-List message posted by: "Dick DeCramer" Charles... Here is what I have done to my RV6 for Minnesota winter flight. I only have one year's experience but it has proven okay so far in +17 degree temp on the ground. My OAT is not functioning but it was colder aloft. Rear baggage area...bulkhead closure. Corrugations are filled with foam weather strip material to block air movement from the tailcone which is a real problem. Tonneau cover over the top opening but no other insulation, carpet or upholstery here. Flap pushrod holes are as small as possible with small aluminum extensions on the flaps which cover the holes when flaps are up. Wing root...aileron torque tubes have a heavy nylon ripstop cone shaped sleeve attached to the tube and closing the lightening hole in the fuselage hole forming a seal. Sliding canopy..."D" shaped foam gasket around the aft canopy fairings where the canopy fairing meets the fuselage. Skirts have reinforcing brace from the inside of the canopy side frame to the bottom of the skirt to prevent the canopy sides from being spread open by low pressure air moving around the fuselage. This bracket was not shown on Van's RV6 plans but is standard now on RV7 canopies and very late RV6 prints. Canopy skirts extend 3/4" + or - over the fuselage sides from about 6" aft of the windscreen back to the aft canopy fairing. This is fitted so the last inch of canopy travel as it is being closed brings the skirt in solid contact with the fuselage side skin. UHMW tape is used to prevent chaffing. Surprisingly no leaks have been noticed around the windscreen/canopy joint and I have no gasket there at all but there is a fairly tight fit. Cockpit....No sound deadening material at all ( it doesn't appear to sound any different than those with it when using good headsets) therefore no insulation value either. I have wall upholstery from the main spar bulkhead to the baggage area. No flooring or upholstery material forward of the spar. I have the material and it is one of those things on the "do" list but now I would rather just fly the airplane rather than work on it. Heating system...0-320 with Vetterman exhaust with TWO Rick Robins heat muffs, one on each side. Each with 2" SCAT tubing going to Rick Robins firewall heat valves, one for the pilot & one for the passenger with separate heater valve controls. Separate air sources are from the cool side of the engine baffling and enter the aft side of the muff so air is pushed forward through the muff before gong to the valves. This slows the air flow so it heats better...Robins also builds a baffle in the Inlet side of his muffs for that reason. Results are good heating with ground temps down to about +15. During flight the jacket can be unzipped half way and thin gloves may be used and even removed after everything gets warmed up. Above that the heat can be too much unless the valves are partially closed. Below +15 the ambient temps at lower altitudes would be about 0 and the cold sides of the unupholstered portions of the fuselage near the legs get pretty cold and the heat system cannot keep up...there is only .032 aluminum between you and the subzero air! Someday I will put the floor and the rest of the upholstery in but flying at those temps present other problems such as preheating, preflight inspections and even getting the aircraft which is all doable but very uncomfortable for a guy my age of 63. You young guys can fly then but I would rather stay home. Also bright sun does make heating much easier vs. cloudy days. Dick DeCramer Northfield, MN N500DD RV6 Slider 100 Hrs plus diesel@rconnect.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:01 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: Medical question --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Besing My thoughts exactly...very well put, Brian. I didn't think of severe cardiomyopathy with markedly decreased ejection fraction. Merry Christmas! Paul Besing do not archive --- brian olofsson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: brian olofsson > > > 9 Min. on standard treadmill, Bruce protocol. No > signs of significant ischemia. Normalized > B.P./chol/bloodsugar, 6months since last "event" and > otherwise normal exam. The FAA has become much > more lenient with this than in the past. I have had > many patients "recertified" after deferred or > denied. Now if your problem is severe cardiomyopathy > with markedly decreased ejection fraction or > recurrent arrythmia your chances are poor. Brian > Olofsson M.D. AME > > bertrv6@highstream.net wrote: --> RV-List message > posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > > > Hi: > > I would like to know if any one, that has been > denied the renewal of medical > certificate,has been able to appeal and win? in > particular if this is due > to Cardiovascular problem? Or once this happens that > is it... > > I have tried to get, the exact requirements or > minimums that the FAA would > consider acceptable, when referring to Cardio > Vascular deficiencies, but > I cannot find such page, on the FAA or even AOPA. > > Bert > > rv6a. > > HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:27 PM PST US From: "Ed Bundy" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6a fresh air vents --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" I cut a piece of medium density foam (1" thick) in a circle to form a press-fit into the eyeball vent. When not in use they slip between the vent and fuselage. Helps a lot. Making a cockpit-controlled vane to block off the intake of the oil cooler is nice as well. I have a scat tube feeding the cooler, and I made a butterfly valve that is in the intake of the scat tube on the baffle. Cockpit control rotates the valve, and I can set virtually any oil temp I want with OAT from below 0 to 100+ Ed Bundy -- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:45 PM PST US From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: RV-List: Spraylat removal --> RV-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Usually the problem occurs because the original coat was too thin. Recoat the spraylat with another 2 thick coats, wait 24 hours for final cure and remove. The new coat should remove the old one. Bruce www.glasair.org bruce is right on. I removed some 2 year old spraylat with two liberal coats of new stuff then peel. Whenever I use it now, I mask the boundary so it doesn't feather near the edge and become a pain to remove. Also I gave up spraylat brand for borden... yup, I ran out and substituted with some of the kids elmers glue. Ever since, I buy it at the art supply store for about 20$ a gallon. I'd swear it's the same stuff...just a tad thinner. Steve DiNieri N221rv ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:22 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: Kens report on exceeding VNE at Alt. --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Common practice on German built composite sailplanes (gliders) is to provide a Vne as an indicated airspeed for low level use with some limitation that it is valid to a particular altitude and then tapers off at a certain percentage per unit of altitude above that. So the placard might read "149 KIAS to 12,000 ft reducing 1.5% per 1,000 above 12,000 ft". (These numbers for illustration purposes only, of course.) One does some math to establish Vne's for 15,000 ft, 18,000 ft, etc. and then you stick a placard with these numbers on it to the side of the cockpit. Really keen sailplane pilots sometimes add some extra "red line" markings to their ASIs. Composite sailplanes are very flexible structure compared to RV class airplanes and do have flutter situations to be aware of so glider pilots do pay attention to these things. (I will modestly admit to having been to 28,000 ft without an engine myself.) The other option is to spend the extra money for an ASI with a moving "barber pole" that shows the limiting Vne at the present altitude. To my knowledge these things use the static pressure input to adjust the barber pole downwards to reflect a lower Vne IAS at altitude and need something in the way of an internal cam mechanism to adjust the barber pole pointer according to some sort of schedule. I think this means that more than a few "extra" dollars would be involved. High performance airplanes also get into compressibility effects on the pitot system and temperature plays a role too. Those who have flown fighter aircraft will know about going out and trying to "cross the needles" at low altitude. That's back when I was young and foolish and I don't do such stuff any more! Jim Oke RV-3, RV-6A, ASW-20 Wpg., MB sportav8r@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com > >So do I run out and erase the redline marking from my ASI tomorrow? It only displays IAS and is therefore worthless as an aid to avoiding flutter, no? > >Not questioning your explanation of flutter, just the wisdom of painting red lines on our ASI dials as required by the FAR's. > >-Storm > >