Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:10 AM - Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error ?) (Condon, Philip M.)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error ?) (Fly n Low)
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error ?) (Tedd McHenry)
4. 10:33 AM - Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (Flyguy6a@aol.com)
5. 11:02 AM - Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes 1.89 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX (Chris W)
6. 11:13 AM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (RV6 Flyer)
7. 12:15 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV (Tedd McHenry)
8. 12:15 PM - Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes (RV6 Flyer)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (Kevin Horton)
10. 01:12 PM - Re: Novelty Aviation Table Lamp (Dave Nellis)
11. 01:20 PM - Re Storm @ OSH '05 (EMAproducts@aol.com)
12. 01:36 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV (Tedd McHenry)
13. 02:36 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (RV6 Flyer)
14. 02:39 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (RV6 Flyer)
15. 06:24 PM - Re: AOA sensor mounting question (HARRY CROSBY)
16. 06:32 PM - rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
17. 06:35 PM - GRT EIS users with Dual Mag Packs (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
18. 06:56 PM - Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes (David Leonard)
19. 07:03 PM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (Randy Lervold)
20. 07:04 PM - Darn good Christmas! (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
21. 09:40 PM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (JOHN STARN)
22. 10:11 PM - Re: Novelty Aviation Table Lamp (Dave Nellis)
23. 10:31 PM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (Dan Checkoway)
24. 10:35 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV (Tedd McHenry)
25. 10:56 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (Rob Prior (rv7))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error |
?)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
".....I haven't worked it out for the newer Eggenfellner engine, but
for the
previous, 2.5-litre engine 4600 RPM would give approximately the same
piston
speed as a Lycoming has at 2600 RPM......."
Tedd, how is that possible? A crank, be it a lycoming crank or a Subaru
crank -- spins....one at say 2500 RPM (Lycoming), the other at, say
5000RPM (Subaru). All pistons in question are connected to the cranks
via con rods. How can piston speed be the same when the cranks are
spinning at vastly different speeds ?? S
.......................................................................
..................
Time: 10:43:38 PM PST US
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> The H-6 is a real smooth engine, but not sure about 7000 rpm in
cruise.
As so often happens, this Subaru-RPM issue is in a spiral dive and
needs to be
brought under control by the application of facts. Eggenfellner's web
site
lists 5900 RPM as maximum climb and 4600 RPM as cruise.
I haven't worked it out for the newer Eggenfellner engine, but for the
previous, 2.5-litre engine 4600 RPM would give approximately the same
piston
speed as a Lycoming has at 2600 RPM.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 2
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| Subject: | Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error |
?)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fly n Low" <flynlow@usaviator.net>
Piston speed depends upon stroke. Longer stroke means the piston travels a
greater distance each revolution. A shorter stroke means it travels a
shorter distance each revolution thus it is moving slower.
Bud Silvers
RV8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condon, Philip
M.
Subject: RV-List: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in
error ?)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
".....I haven't worked it out for the newer Eggenfellner engine, but
for the
previous, 2.5-litre engine 4600 RPM would give approximately the same
piston
speed as a Lycoming has at 2600 RPM......."
Tedd, how is that possible? A crank, be it a lycoming crank or a Subaru
crank -- spins....one at say 2500 RPM (Lycoming), the other at, say
5000RPM (Subaru). All pistons in question are connected to the cranks
via con rods. How can piston speed be the same when the cranks are
spinning at vastly different speeds ?? S
.......................................................................
..................
Time: 10:43:38 PM PST US
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> The H-6 is a real smooth engine, but not sure about 7000 rpm in
cruise.
As so often happens, this Subaru-RPM issue is in a spiral dive and
needs to be
brought under control by the application of facts. Eggenfellner's web
site
lists 5900 RPM as maximum climb and 4600 RPM as cruise.
I haven't worked it out for the newer Eggenfellner engine, but for the
previous, 2.5-litre engine 4600 RPM would give approximately the same
piston
speed as a Lycoming has at 2600 RPM.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF (piston speed comment in error |
?)
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Philip:
> Tedd, how is that possible? A crank, be it a lycoming crank or a Subaru
> crank -- spins....one at say 2500 RPM (Lycoming), the other at, say
> 5000RPM (Subaru). All pistons in question are connected to the cranks
> via con rods. How can piston speed be the same when the cranks are
> spinning at vastly different speeds ?? S
Piston speed depends on stroke length. The stroke of the Subaru engine is a
little over half the stroke of the Lycoming. If you cut the stroke length in
half the piston speed is cut in half for the same RPM. Or, alternatively, you
can rev twice as high at the same piston speed.
This is one key reason that auto engines can safely rev much higher than
airplane engines. Other reasons are lower piston masses, leading to reduced
connecting rod stress, and lower valvetrain masses, leading to higher
valvetrain harmonics. And, of course, more rigid crankcases and shorter,
stiffer crankshafts.
The Subaru engine has particularly low reciprocating masses, even for an auto
engine, and has an especially rigid crankcase and crankshaft. These features
make it very well suited to sustained high-RPM, high-output applications such
as aircraft.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: Flyguy6a@aol.com
Martin..
I too like the "rumble" of the Lycosaurus. I heard a Sube in an RV9a and
thought it was one of those 2-stroke powered flying wing/kite thingies when I
first heard it, something like an angry bee. I would want to totally muffle
the thing if it were mine, the noise is annoying, IMO, even with the muffler
it had. I note the Sube autos are very quiet, I guess you can't fit a big
enough muffler on the conversions.
OTOH, the Lyco, like Harley bikes, has a pleasing exhaust note, and I would
never want to muffle it, part of the charm...
Now I'll go along and struggle into my Nomex suit...
Jack Lucas
From: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
<snip>
The H-6 is a real smooth engine, but not sure about 7000 rpm in cruise. I
like the rumble of the Lycoming, and I regularly get 6.3 US gallons per hr
fuel burn at 55-60% power, so I can't complain about the economy over the
past 200 hours either.
FWIW
Martin in Oz
Message 5
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Date": is.96.hours.or.more.after.Received:date@roxy.matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes 1.89 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX |
Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
Ron Lee wrote:
>Recently someone west of me was considering a turbocharger (at
>least his partner was) in an RV8, IO360, CS prop so they could get
>to 15000' to cross a mountain range then drop down. I can't find
>the post so here is the info anyway.
>
>RV-6A, carbureted O-360, fixed wood prop (Aymar-Demuth)
>
>Altitude IAS (mph) Rate of climb (fpm)
>13000' 120 600
>14000' 120 500
>
>
>
From that and the other numbers I have seen, unless you are going to
seriously overload the plane, I don't see why you need a turbo to get
well over any mountain in the 48 states. I think Dan was going to to a
climb test with his IO-360 CS prop. Not sure but I think you can get
from 0 to 18,000 in a little over 15 minutes. Now if you want to fly
at 18,000 with some more speed, then a turbo would be nice but getting
there with out one is no problem with an IO-360 and CS prop. Even with
a normally aspirated engine your true air speed is going to be pretty
good at that altitude.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
So what is the Specific fuel consumption? We know what the Lycoming burns
in pounds per hour per horsepower produced. What does the Subie do? If you
do not know, what GPH at what RPM and what Horespower at what RPM?
Yes the Subie powered aircraft that is based were I am is also the most
noisy aircraft here and makes more noise than the Cessna 337's.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,825 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Flyguy6a@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Flyguy6a@aol.com
Martin..
I too like the "rumble" of the Lycosaurus. I heard a Sube in an RV9a and
thought it was one of those 2-stroke powered flying wing/kite thingies when
I
first heard it, something like an angry bee. I would want to totally
muffle
the thing if it were mine, the noise is annoying, IMO, even with the
muffler
it had. I note the Sube autos are very quiet, I guess you can't fit a big
enough muffler on the conversions.
OTOH, the Lyco, like Harley bikes, has a pleasing exhaust note, and I
would
never want to muffle it, part of the charm...
Now I'll go along and struggle into my Nomex suit...
Jack Lucas
From: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
<snip>
The H-6 is a real smooth engine, but not sure about 7000 rpm in cruise. I
like the rumble of the Lycoming, and I regularly get 6.3 US gallons per hr
fuel burn at 55-60% power, so I can't complain about the economy over the
past 200 hours either.
FWIW
Martin in Oz
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV |
- WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> So what is the Specific fuel consumption?
I couldn't find that on Eggenfellner's web site, but auto engines typically
have slightly lower BSFC than Lycomings, due to less favourable cylinder
surface-to-volume ratio. However, water cooling and electronic engine
management mean that the Eggenfellner engines can run at an optimized fuel-air
ratio all the time (i.e., no richening the mixture for take-off, climb, etc.).
> Yes the Subie powered aircraft that is based were I am is also the most
> noisy aircraft here and makes more noise than the Cessna 337's.
At first I thought you meant T-37, and I was most impressed! I have flown
Charlie Walker's Eggenfellner-powered Glastar and was most impressed with how
quiet it is. But that's all subjective. I don't have any data on noise
levels.
There's no question that cruising at 3800-4200 RPM (where Charlie cruises in
his Glastar) takes some getting used to. But if you work out the numbers you
discover that the important parameters (piston speed, piston acceleration
forces, main bearing wear index) are around the same as for a Lycoming at 2400
RPM.
Obviously, what sort of sound appeals to you is subjective.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
I had my little 160 HP CS RV-6 up to 17,800 once over 6 years ago. Was no
problem. Still climibing 300 FPM at 100 KIAS. I do not remember the time to
climb there but I was still on the tank I took off on and I switch every 30
minutes.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,826 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
is.96.hours.or.more.after.Received:date@roxy.matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rate of climb at higher altitudes 1.89
DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
Ron Lee wrote:
>Recently someone west of me was considering a turbocharger (at
>least his partner was) in an RV8, IO360, CS prop so they could get
>to 15000' to cross a mountain range then drop down. I can't find
>the post so here is the info anyway.
>
>RV-6A, carbureted O-360, fixed wood prop (Aymar-Demuth)
>
>Altitude IAS (mph) Rate of climb (fpm)
>13000' 120 600
>14000' 120 500
>
>
>
From that and the other numbers I have seen, unless you are going to
seriously overload the plane, I don't see why you need a turbo to get
well over any mountain in the 48 states. I think Dan was going to to a
climb test with his IO-360 CS prop. Not sure but I think you can get
from 0 to 18,000 in a little over 15 minutes. Now if you want to fly
at 18,000 with some more speed, then a turbo would be nice but getting
there with out one is no problem with an IO-360 and CS prop. Even with
a normally aspirated engine your true air speed is going to be pretty
good at that altitude.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 28 Dec 2005, at 15:13, Tedd McHenry wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
>> So what is the Specific fuel consumption?
>
> I couldn't find that on Eggenfellner's web site, but auto engines
> typically
> have slightly lower BSFC than Lycomings, due to less favourable
> cylinder
> surface-to-volume ratio. However, water cooling and electronic engine
> management mean that the Eggenfellner engines can run at an
> optimized fuel-air
> ratio all the time (i.e., no richening the mixture for take-off,
> climb, etc.).
Tedd,
You say "lower SFC". Do you mean lower as in a lower number, or
lower as in less good? I would have expected the less favourable
cylinder surface to volume ratio to lead to higher fuel consumption,
and the optimized fuel-air ratio to lead to lower fuel consumption,
with the overall result (i.e. higher or lower fuel consumption)
impossible to know without doing some testing.
Occasionally I hear reports from some auto-conversion guys quoting
lower fuel flows, but I've always had the impression they were making
less hp in cruise too. A Lycoming powered RV cruising at low power
has low fuel flow too. It would be very interesting to see what
happens when a Lycoming powered RV and a Subie powered RV go off on a
cross country trip together, cruising at the same speeds. I wonder
who will burn less fuel.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Novelty Aviation Table Lamp |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Ok, lots of problems with Ebay as this is the first
item I have sold, bought lots of stuff, never sold.
My bad. The item has been relisted, item 4599797102.
I have an email in to support asking that they change
the ad to show 6 items left to sell. Yes, I have one
sold. Sorry for the Ebayineptitude. Thank you for
your patience.
Dave
--- Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis
> <truflite@yahoo.com>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I am an RV enthusiast and am almost finished with
> the
> empennage kit for a 7A. I have been laid off since
> mid March and there is no sign of relief. Hence,
> going further on my project at this time is out of
> the
> question, especially with two kids in college. So,
> I
> am trying to raise some funds to pay bills.
>
> I have built a novelty table lamp from an engine
> cylinder. I have cylinders to make six more.
> Please
> view the lamp on Ebay at the following site. If you
> are interested, please reply. If not, thanks for
> looking.
> >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item4599797102&sspagenameADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A31
>
> Dave Nellis
>
>
>
>
>
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re Storm @ OSH '05 |
--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
RVer's
As everyone who was at OSH in '05 knows Monday night we had a big blow.
Unfortunately, my album of photos was nearly totally destroyed by moisture when
our 2 10X20 tents blew down. Many of the photographs were originals and sadly
I had no duplicates. Between this and a computer hard drive failure I have
lost a large number of photos from my customers.
I am unable to contact many due to e-mail address changes, moving etc. If
you have the RiteAngle installed on your aircraft please send me either via
e-mail or postal a copy if you would. I lost many photos going back over 10
years from our R&D days. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Elbie
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
_www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV |
- WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> You say "lower SFC". Do you mean lower as in a lower number, or
> lower as in less good?
Sorry, yes, that's exactly what I meant. Poor use of terminology on my part.
I think auto engine SFC is about 0.45 lb/hp-h for a modern engine like the
Subaru, as opposed to 0.42 for a properly-leaned Lycoming. But those numbers
are just from memory.
Tedd
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Tedd:
Anyone can say anything.
How about some FACT and sources to back up actual DATA.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,825 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV -
WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> So what is the Specific fuel consumption?
I couldn't find that on Eggenfellner's web site, but auto engines typically
have slightly lower BSFC than Lycomings, due to less favourable cylinder
surface-to-volume ratio. However, water cooling and electronic engine
management mean that the Eggenfellner engines can run at an optimized
fuel-air
ratio all the time (i.e., no richening the mixture for take-off, climb,
etc.).
> Yes the Subie powered aircraft that is based were I am is also the most
> noisy aircraft here and makes more noise than the Cessna 337's.
At first I thought you meant T-37, and I was most impressed! I have flown
Charlie Walker's Eggenfellner-powered Glastar and was most impressed with
how
quiet it is. But that's all subjective. I don't have any data on noise
levels.
There's no question that cruising at 3800-4200 RPM (where Charlie cruises in
his Glastar) takes some getting used to. But if you work out the numbers
you
discover that the important parameters (piston speed, piston acceleration
forces, main bearing wear index) are around the same as for a Lycoming at
2400
RPM.
Obviously, what sort of sound appeals to you is subjective.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Tedd:
Anyone can say anything.
How about some FACT and sources to back up actual DATA.
0.42 lbs/hr / hp is better than 0.045.
Show me the calculations of piston speed, cylinder pressures, and crankshaft
wear.
I see you throwing lots of info out with no source of where it came from.
What is the source of this info?
I do not trust memory.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,818 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV -
WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> You say "lower SFC". Do you mean lower as in a lower number, or
> lower as in less good?
Sorry, yes, that's exactly what I meant. Poor use of terminology on my
part.
I think auto engine SFC is about 0.45 lb/hp-h for a modern engine like the
Subaru, as opposed to 0.42 for a properly-leaned Lycoming. But those
numbers
are just from memory.
Tedd
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: AOA sensor mounting question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "HARRY CROSBY" <HCRV6@comcast.net>
I installed my PSS Sport AOA per the instructions with a water drain hole in
the bottom of the wing and a plastic tube glued in place to guide the wire
to reach the drain fitting. It has been through several rain storms and
several washings with no attempt to block sensing holes and I have never
gotten a drop of water out of the drain.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 161 hours and down for painting.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RKAlex123@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: AOA sensor mounting question
> --> RV-List message posted by: RKAlex123@aol.com
>
> A question for those of you that have installed an Angle of Attack
> indicator. The upper wing sensor has a water separator which requires
> access from below to drain any accumulated water. Did you just drill
> an access hole in the lower wing to reach this drain with an extension
> wire? Or is water draining needed so infrequently that using an access
> panel or wingtip removal to reach the drain sufficient? There is no clear
> guidance in the instructions from Advanced. Appreciate any advise.
>
> Bob Alexander
> RV7
>
>
>
Message 16
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RV-8@yahoogroups.com (RV8 List)
| Subject: | rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I have
an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up elevator
throw.
Does that sound right?
I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt installed
under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another local tail dragger
8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also a CS prop, battery
on the FW and thinks something is wrong as his won't lift up at that rpm.
thoughts?
lucky
When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I have
an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up elevator throw.
Does that sound right?
I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt installed
under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another local tail dragger
8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also aCS prop, battery on
the FWand thinks something is wrong as his won't lift up at that rpm.
thoughts?
lucky
Message 17
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| Subject: | GRT EIS users with Dual Mag Packs |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have a A1B6D model 200 hp engine. What P/R number works to get the right RPM
reading on the EIS?
I've tried just about every one you can program in and haven't found the magic
one yet. GRT says they don't know what value to use for that mag setup.
thx,
lucky
I have a A1B6D model 200 hp engine. What P/R number works to get the right RPM
reading on the EIS?
I've tried just about every one you can program in and haven't found the magic
one yet. GRT says they don't know what value to use for that mag setup.
thx,
lucky
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rate of climb at higher altitudes |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
>
>
> I had my little 160 HP CS RV-6 up to 17,800 once over 6 years ago. Was no
> problem. Still climibing 300 FPM at 100 KIAS. I do not remember the time
> to
> climb there but I was still on the tank I took off on and I switch every
> 30
> minutes.
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,826 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
Gary is absolutely right in that any RV still has plenty of performance at
altitude. It is also true that the fixed pitch RV's have very adequate
climb performance.
However, many people spend thousands on a c/s prop to improve climb
performance mostly because it is more satisfying. A turbo can do the same
thing for you. At 17k' I can still climb at over 1000 fpm at 120KIAS with
my fixed pitch prop. Sure makes it nice to have that climb authority at any
altitude, especially when there is some sort of icing risk and there is a
cloud ahead.
I debated long and hard before installing a turbo and only decided to
install one late in the game. And despite the fact that it has caused me an
unplanned landing at an airport far from home - I am now very glad I have
it. At Big Bear, I still climb out like I am at sea level. (And that is off
the ground before the displaced threshold). That is nice piece of mind.
It allows my f/p prop to perform almost as well as a c/s, and the extra
available power never hurts. The turbo is something of a project, but not
insurmountable by a long shot. (probably easier for the rotary than a lyc
because of the availability of OEM and aftermarket parts).
The big picture is this: in aircraft, turbos allow the efficient use of
higher (low drag) air at altitude. They can make a smaller, lighter, less
expensive engine perform like a larger one up where we spend the majority of
flight time.
Like an alternate engine, a turbo is not for everyone. It is REALLY not
NEEDED, especially with the 200h.p. c/s birds everyone is building
nowadays. But keep you hands off mine! :-)
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY (only 170hrs. with admittedly lots of minor problems)
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy@comcast.net>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>; "RV8 List" <RV-8@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I
> have an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up
> elevator throw.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt
> installed under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another
> local tail dragger 8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also a
> CS prop, battery on the FW and thinks something is wrong as his won't lift
> up at that rpm.
>
> thoughts?
>
> lucky
Lucky,
If you're not holding your stick full back then the tail may well come up, I
was never brave enough to try it. I did do quite a few 2400 rpm runs though
for prop balancing, but again with the stick full back and had no problem.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Darn good Christmas! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Best present I got this year (next to my new front tire) was the one-six
right DVD- If y'all haven't seen this, it's the best documentary I've seen (even
if there were no RVs in it) since Michelle's "The West Coast RV Trip"- The
air2air fotogs are well worth the price of admision alone...
Get it from Sporty's http://onesixright.com
Mark do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
I've posted for years on this subject. If you have heard it before delete
now.
EVERY RV (and derivatives) with a tail wheel can, have & well nose over if
too much RPM is used for run-up OR if the prop is cycled at high RPM when
the prop get a big ole bite of air. Every RV is different BUT ALL of them
can, have & will continue to nose over. Chain the tail down FIRST, do a run
up to determine YOUR comfort level.
On N561FS we use 1,700 as max RPM until on a roll. HRII 250HP IO-540. Fail
to learn from the mistakes others will result in "ding, ding, ding, clunk".
The "dings" are the prop tips & the "clunk" is the spinner. It happens waaay
too fast to correct. 27 degrees up helps BUT 90 degrees would not be enough
if you cycle the prop at 2200 RPM with the brakes locked. IF you have done
this already consider yourself VERY Lucky. Do Not Try It once you have the
CG set.
Once it's on it's nose, get help, lots of it, to get the tail wheel back
down SLOWLY.
DO NOT attempt to pull it down by yourself, you will break its back. Refer
to X-15 photos for examples of what will happen.
KABONG Do Not Archive this is all ready in there.
---- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy@comcast.net>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>; "RV8 List" <RV-8@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I
> have an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up
> elevator throw.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt
> installed under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another
> local tail dragger 8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also a
> CS prop, battery on the FW and thinks something is wrong as his won't lift
> up at that rpm.
>
> thoughts?
>
> lucky
>
> When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I
> have an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up
> elevator throw.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt
> installed under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another
> local tail dragger 8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also aCS
> prop, battery on the FWand thinks something is wrong as his won't lift up
> at that rpm.
>
> thoughts?
>
> lucky
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Novelty Aviation Table Lamp |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Someday I will learn this ebay stuff. New item number
is as follows
4600741450
Dave Nellis
--- Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Nellis
> <truflite@yahoo.com>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I am an RV enthusiast and am almost finished with
> the
> empennage kit for a 7A. I have been laid off since
> mid March and there is no sign of relief. Hence,
> going further on my project at this time is out of
> the
> question, especially with two kids in college. So,
> I
> am trying to raise some funds to pay bills.
>
> I have built a novelty table lamp from an engine
> cylinder. I have cylinders to make six more.
> Please
> view the lamp on Ebay at the following site. If you
> are interested, please reply. If not, thanks for
> looking.
> Dave Nellis
>
>
>
>
>
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
2200 RPM?!?!? Yikes!!! Hopefully you don't mean to imply that you do your
normal run-up at that RPM.
FWIW, I do mine no higher than 1800 RPM (RV-7 200hp IO-360-A1B6). When I
weighed my plane, my tail was only 58 pounds, which is only 5.21% of the
entire aircraft empty weight. From talking to others, that's a pretty
tail-light setup.
I am very careful when running up not to apply too much power. I have
lifted my tail when running up only ONCE, and that was when the tail was
tied down (this was an intentional test, a full-power run-up).
I imagine the RV-8's tail with the heavy engine/prop up front will have an
even lighter tail than mine due to the longer arm (I assume?).
If you're just trying to determine if the behavior you're seeing is normal,
I would say...sure is. Be careful.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy@comcast.net>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>; "RV8 List" <RV-8@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I
> have an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up
> elevator throw.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt
> installed under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another
> local tail dragger 8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also a
> CS prop, battery on the FW and thinks something is wrong as his won't lift
> up at that rpm.
>
> thoughts?
>
> lucky
>
> When running up to about 2200 rpm, my RV8 tail lifts off of the ground. I
> have an angle valved, 200 hp engine with hartzell CS prop. 27 degrees up
> elevator throw.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
> I haven't done my CG yet but I have my battery in the back and the elt
> installed under the VS. My tail is relatively heavy compared to another
> local tail dragger 8 I have picked up. He has a 180 HP engine and also aCS
> prop, battery on the FWand thinks something is wrong as his won't lift up
> at that rpm.
>
> thoughts?
>
> lucky
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV |
- WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> I see you throwing lots of info out with no source of where it came from.
> What is the source of this info?
Thank goodness I kept my spreadsheet!
Piston Speed
============
Piston speed is simply one half the stroke times the rotational speed (in
appropriate units). Another way of looking at this is the ratio of stroke
lengths for two different engines gives the ratio of piston speeds at a given
RPM.
The stroke for a Lycoming O-360 is 4.375 inches. The stroke for an
Eggenfellner Subaru is 3.11 inches. (Gary, you were right not to trust my
memory. I had remembered the Subaru stroke as being closer to 2.5 inches.)
Therefore, the stroke ratio for the two engines is 4.375/3.11=1.4. So the
Subaru has the same piston speed at 3400 RPM as the Lycoming has at 2400 --
lower than I remembered.
Eggenfellner recommends a cruise RPM between 3800 and 4200, which is between 12
and 24 percent higher than the Lycoming's cruise piston speed (assuming the
Lycoming is cruising at 2400 RPM).
Mean Piston Pressure (BMEP)
===========================
Mean piston pressure is calculated from:
2*P/(V*n)
where P is power, V is displacement, and n is rotational speed (in consistent
units). This is from the Bosch Automotive Handbook, but you will find the same
formula in many engineering texts.
To use this formula you need to express power in ft-lb/s (i.e., HP*550),
rotational speed in rad/s (i.e., RPM x 2 x pi / 60 ), and displacement in cubic
feet. This gives you MPP in pounds per square foot.
For an O-360 at 135 HP and 2400 RPM (i.e. 75%) we get an MPP of 3195.
Based on the power curve for the stock Subaru engine, available here
http://www.vansairforce.org/tmp/Subaru_torque_graph.jpg
the Subaru is capable of producing about 128 HP at 4200 RPM, WOT, and sea level
pressure. (That link won't last forever, so I recommend downloading it if you
want to keep it.)
That 128 HP translates to about 108 HP at 8,000 feet. (This is exactly the
same math that gives 135 HP from an O-360 at 2400 RPM and 8,000 feet.) This is
something that potential Eggenfellner customers need to realize: the 2.5-litre
engine probably isn't going to have quite the same cruise performance as a
160-horse Lycoming. I haven't run the numbers for the new 3.0-litre engine.
Presumably, it will have similar MPP but 20 percent more power.
Anyway, for a 2.5-litre Eggenfellner Subaru at 4200 RPM and 108 HP we get an
MPP of 3051, or about 4 percent below the Lycoming's.
Bearing Wear
============
Unfortunately, I've lost the bearing wear calculations I did, and the reference
that tells me how to calculate it. Unlike piston speed and MPP, the
calculation for bearing wear index is not something you can figure out easily
from first principles (at least, I can't).
In general terms, though, the Subaru fares well in the bearing wear
calculations because it is a five-main-bearing engine with very highly
optimized bearing geometry, and it has very light reciprocating components.
(Inertial loads are as important as piston pressure loads at the higher RPMs.)
Customers report no signs of bearing wear in spectroscopic oil analyses at over
800 hours on the Eggenfellner engine. But that's just heresay, so I don't
expect it will impress Gary. :)
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV - WTF |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 22:35:00 2005-12-28 Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org> wrote:
> Customers report no signs of bearing wear in spectroscopic oil
> analyses at over 800 hours on the Eggenfellner engine. But that's
> just heresay, so I don't expect it will impress Gary. :)
Nowhere near as much as the rest of the email impressed me, in any case.
Very nicely done.
-Rob
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