Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Darn good Christmas! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 04:54 AM - Re: AoA (Kevin Horton)
3. 06:46 AM - Re: AoA (Ed Anderson)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
5. 07:17 AM - E-Mag replacement of DualMag packs (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
6. 07:44 AM - Towbar powered with corless drill (LML Klingmuller)
7. 08:02 AM - Re: Towbar powered with corless drill (vinnfizz@aol.com)
8. 08:20 AM - Re: Towbar powered with corless drill (Walter Tondu)
9. 08:38 AM - Re: Towbar powered with corless drill (sportav8r@aol.com)
10. 09:24 AM - Re: Towbar powered with corless drill (Jeff Dowling)
11. 09:53 AM - Re: Darn good Christmas! - VNY FSDO memo (Ed Holyoke)
12. 02:45 PM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (Alex Peterson)
13. 05:24 PM - Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV (Charlie England)
14. 07:05 PM - Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
15. 08:01 PM - Re: Towbar powered with cordless drill (Richard Scott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Darn good Christmas! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Has anyone there involved AOPA yet? This is right up their alley and have a lot
more pull than EAA in DC.
Michael Sausen
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Darn good Christmas!
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Yeah, we'll see how it shakes out- will be interesting to see how "involved"
EAA gets with this one- pretty damn cool video, though!
Ready to fly yet? May be going down to Ft Payne AL 4A9 for b'fast Sat- if not,
ya gonna be out at yer hanger?
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
On 30 Dec 2005, at 02:55, Todd Bartrim wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
>
> Hi Steve;
> I have both the PSS AOA and the D10 with AOA. I bought the
> PSS system early
> in my build and bought the D10 after first flight. The PSS system
> should be
> a better system due to it's direct measurement of AOA, while the
> D10 is an
> inferred measurement, however I have found them to track each other
> perfectly and both give accurate warning of a stall. The only time
> they
> don't track together is during a turn and this is expected as I
> have them
> mounted on opposite wings.
> The early D10 doesn't have any audio output, so the PSS
> system is nice to
> have for this feature and I also mounted my PSS LED display on the
> glaresheild which gives me a crude but effective poor man's HUD,
> which is
> visible in all but direct sunlight.
> If I was building today I would just go with the new Dynon
> or comparable
> EFIS that has this feature as it has proven (to me) to be as
> accurate as a
> stand alone system.
Todd,
Thanks for the info on the Dynon accuracy.
I am a bit puzzled by your statement that the PSS AOA system directly
measures AOA. I had always understood that it used pressure ports on
the top and bottom of the wing, and inferred the AOA by measuring the
pressures at these ports, rather than directly measuring the angle of
the incoming air by a vane. Have I misunderstood how it works?
do not archive
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> I am a bit puzzled by your statement that the PSS AOA system directly
> measures AOA. I had always understood that it used pressure ports on
> the top and bottom of the wing, and inferred the AOA by measuring the
> pressures at these ports, rather than directly measuring the angle of
> the incoming air by a vane. Have I misunderstood how it works?
>
> do not archive
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
I agree, Kevin. An article in Sport Aviation May 1998 showed that the two
wing pressure port sources work based on the concept of a pressure
coefficient Cp = (P1-P2)/(Pt-Ps) or the ratio of the pressure difference of
the two ports to the dynamic pressure (Pt-Ps).
I worked some of the math theory on several AOA approaches. The vane
method or the probe with two ports, both give a "direct" indication of
angle of attack. If the airspeed is a constant then any variation will be
directly related to angle of attack.
I worked out the math on the probe approach in detail (as I am building an
AOA based on that approach). I found that the difference between the
dynamic pressure component in the two ports of the probe is a direct
indicator of the Angle of attack. These two ports are normally 90 degs
apart (but, that is not a requirement - just makes the math easier {:>)).
Since (as you know) the pressure is the force(vector) acting normal to an
area, then the dynamic pressure component of interest is the force acting
normal to the port openings in the probe. The total dynamic pressure is
common to both ports , however, the dynamic pressure component normal to
the plane of the port opening differs based on the angle of attack. That
difference is a direct results of the angle of the relative wind to the two
ports.
Since the probe is fixed to the wing of the aircraft we are in effect
measuring the angle of attack of the wing.
The end result of my math analysis is that Pressure difference
(between the two ports) = q(Sin(angle) - Cos(angle)) assuming the plane of
the two ports are 90 degrees apart.
So at a constant airspeed (V) the magnitude of dynamic pressure (q =
1/2pV
2) remains constant, therefore, any pressure difference variation
(between the two ports) is dependent only on the variation in the angle of
attack. I then calculated the expected magnitude of the force (pressure)
seen by the ports inorder to determine the range my pressure sensor would
need to operate over.
Even the so-call "Reserve Lift" method is actually indicating the angle of
attack and inferring "Lift". I am using a differential pressure sensor to
measure the difference in dynamic pressure component and using a microchip
to interpret, display the traditional LED ladder and can set alarms (visual
and audio) before the stall (actually at any point).
That is my take on the different approaches. FWIW
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
My RV-6A with a 180 HP & constant speed prop will drag it's self along the
pavement tires locked at anything above 1500 RPM!
Tom in Ohio DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/28/2005 11:41:49 PM Central Standard Time,
> jhstarn@verizon.net writes:
> Every RV is different BUT ALL of them
> can, have & will continue to nose over.
>>>>
>
> Thanks a lot, John- now my nosedragger ain't even an RV!
>
> (sniff)
>
> OH! I get it- yer talkin' about them "off field" landings! 8-)
> (never mind...)
>
> Mark RV-6"A"
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | E-Mag replacement of DualMag packs |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Hey everyone with DualMag Packs (ie, io 360 A1B6D or A3B6D) equipped engines, give
these guys an email or a call and let them know you are very interested in
seeing them come out this year with a dual mag pack replacement system. I don't
know how engine life could get better for us than replacing what we have with
this setup. For two years they keep saying maybe this year we'll look at that
system. Squeeky wheel gets the grease, usually ;-)
http://www.emagair.com/FAQ.htm
Hey everyone with DualMag Packs (ie, io 360 A1B6D or A3B6D) equipped engines, give
these guys anemail or a call and let them know you are very interested in
seeing them come out this year with a dual mag pack replacement system. I don't
know how enginelife could get better for us than replacing what we have with
this setup. For two years they keep saying maybe this year we'll look at that
system. Squeeky wheel gets the grease, usually ;-)
http://www.emagair.com/FAQ.htm
Message 6
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| Subject: | Towbar powered with corless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
I need help to find a write up about a powered towbar!
About seven years ago there was a write up about a towbar for an RV-6A using a
cordless drill to tug a 6A in an out of a hangar. The towbar construction seemed
to be real simple using standard hardware material and a cordless drill
for power. At that time the article appeared, I was too busy building a shop
and my airplane and did not save the write-up. Now I just can't find the article
or remember where it was printed.
Can any of the blisters steer me to this article??? Perhaps someone on the list
has build one??
Thanks in advance, Lothar from Denver
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Towbar powered with corless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: vinnfizz@aol.com
See this website:
http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=252
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: LML Klingmuller <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Towbar powered with corless drill
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
I need help to find a write up about a powered towbar!
About seven years ago there was a write up about a towbar for an RV-6A using a
cordless drill to tug a 6A in an out of a hangar. The towbar construction
seemed to be real simple using standard hardware material and a cordless drill
for power. At that time the article appeared, I was too busy building a shop
and my airplane and did not save the write-up. Now I just can't find the
article or remember where it was printed.
Can any of the blisters steer me to this article??? Perhaps someone on the list
has build one??
Thanks in advance, Lothar from Denver
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Towbar powered with corless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 12/30 8:43, LML Klingmuller wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
>
> I need help to find a write up about a powered towbar!
>
> About seven years ago there was a write up about a towbar for an RV-6A using
a cordless drill to tug a 6A in an out of a hangar. The towbar construction
seemed to be real simple using standard hardware material and a cordless drill
for power. At that time the article appeared, I was too busy building a shop
and my airplane and did not save the write-up. Now I just can't find the article
or remember where it was printed.
>
> Can any of the blisters steer me to this article??? Perhaps someone on the
list has build one??
Not "roll your own" but you can buy it here. Mucho expensive.
http://sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=6388&CATID=166
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Towbar powered with corless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com
Or try the standard "Stormy maneuver" as taught in all good ground schools ;-)
Taxi in nose -first under power, shut down when mains are just barely indoors,
climb out, grap prop at the balde roots, make 3-pt U-turn to end up facing out,
ready to taxi out tomorrow...
I can do this with ease inside my 34 ft wide hangar and miss the workbench on the
left and the fuel drums on the right, it's not even close. If you have 28
feet of inside width, it's doable with practice. It's not always ballet-graceful,
but it works, and no tugs are ever needed.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: vinnfizz@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Towbar powered with corless drill
--> RV-List message posted by: vinnfizz@aol.com
See this website:
http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=252
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: LML Klingmuller <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Towbar powered with corless drill
--> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
I need help to find a write up about a powered towbar!
About seven years ago there was a write up about a towbar for an RV-6A using a
cordless drill to tug a 6A in an out of a hangar. The towbar construction
seemed to be real simple using standard hardware material and a cordless drill
for power. At that time the article appeared, I was too busy building a shop
and my airplane and did not save the write-up. Now I just can't find the
article or remember where it was printed.
Can any of the blisters steer me to this article??? Perhaps someone on the list
has build one??
Thanks in advance, Lothar from Denver
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Towbar powered with corless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2@earthlink.net>
You can buy a cheap lawn tractor for that.
do not archive
shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: <vinnfizz@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Towbar powered with corless drill
> --> RV-List message posted by: vinnfizz@aol.com
>
> See this website:
> http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=252
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LML Klingmuller <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Towbar powered with corless drill
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LML Klingmuller"
> <l_klingmuller@earthlink.net>
>
> I need help to find a write up about a powered towbar!
>
> About seven years ago there was a write up about a towbar for an RV-6A
> using a
> cordless drill to tug a 6A in an out of a hangar. The towbar
> construction
> seemed to be real simple using standard hardware material and a cordless
> drill
> for power. At that time the article appeared, I was too busy building a
> shop
> and my airplane and did not save the write-up. Now I just can't find the
> article or remember where it was printed.
>
> Can any of the blisters steer me to this article??? Perhaps someone on
> the list
> has build one??
>
> Thanks in advance, Lothar from Denver
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Darn good Christmas! - VNY FSDO memo |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Michael,
Yeah, I e-mailed AOPA. I got a call back from Nathan Rohrbaugh who said
that he called the FSDO claiming to be an RV-6 pilot planning a flight
into Santa Barbara and would there be a problem. The duty officer at the
FSDO assured him that there would be no problem and to have the airport
call him if they had one. I informed Nathan that, although it was
reassuring to hear that they weren't on the warpath right now, it did
nothing about the larger issue of the FSDO's local excess over national
policy and their intent to deny operating limitations to future
homebuilts. I said that the memo and the policy put forth in it need to
be challenged by an outfit with the clout of AOPA. I suggested that more
action than one phone call was needed and that maybe they ought to
coordinate their efforts with the EAA. He said that, with the holidays
and such, there wouldn't be much happening till after new years. He
promised to get back to me then.
Why don't you (and everybody else who's a dues paying AOPA member) drop
them a line expressing your outrage at the FSDO and see if we can get
them off the fence and in the fight? Here's an e-dress I got from Randy
Hansen at the EAA for his opposite number at AOPA, Brent Hart:
brent.hart@aopa.org
or you can use: inforequest@aopa.org
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV-List: Darn good Christmas!
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Has anyone there involved AOPA yet? This is right up their alley and
have a lot more pull than EAA in DC.
Michael Sausen
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Darn good Christmas!
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Yeah, we'll see how it shakes out- will be interesting to see how
"involved"
EAA gets with this one- pretty damn cool video, though!
Ready to fly yet? May be going down to Ft Payne AL 4A9 for b'fast Sat-
if not, ya gonna be out at yer hanger?
Message 12
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| Subject: | rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin"
> --> <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
> My RV-6A with a 180 HP & constant speed prop will drag it's
> self along the pavement tires locked at anything above 1500 RPM!
>
>
> Tom in Ohio DO NOT ARCHIVE
Wow, is that correct? My same setup will take about 2350 rpm to move, and
even then, it is not the tires sliding. It takes an alarming amount of
brake pedal pressure to hold it; you are probably sliding the brakes and not
the tires. Put your feet way up on the top edge of the pedal, so that you
aren't overstressing the rudder pedal weldments. When I have had the prop
dynamically balanced, I usually do it at 2200 rpm, and my leg muscles can
feel it the next day.
If the coefficient of friction between the tires and the pavement is around
.8, and the mains are holding about 1200 pounds, for example, it would take
about 1000 pounds of thrust to drag the tires. Ain't happening. I did a
runup at 1400 rpm on snow a few weeks ago, and didn't slide.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 702 hours
Maple Grove, MN
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lyco rumble & Subie was :Re: Subaru 6900 RPM in a RV |
- WTF
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
RV6 Flyer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
>So what is the Specific fuel consumption? We know what the Lycoming burns
>in pounds per hour per horsepower produced. What does the Subie do? If you
>do not know, what GPH at what RPM and what Horespower at what RPM?
>
>Yes the Subie powered aircraft that is based were I am is also the most
>noisy aircraft here and makes more noise than the Cessna 337's.
>
>Gary A. Sobek
>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>1,825 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
Can you quantify the noise? Have both been measured with a C-weighting
sound level meter? Was it engine noise or prop? I'm a fan of Mazda
rotary conversions, but I really hate the way they sound. Sound level
measurements have been made on several rotary powered a/c & similar Lyc
powered planes, & in many cases the rotary planes are no louder (&
sometimes quieter) than the Lycs. *But* all are subjectively more
offensive, due to the sharp edged exhaust pulses.
Here's the point: Pretty much everybody in the US & old enough to
remember prefers the sound of a big V8 in a car to a little 4cyl. How
many of us drive a V8 these days?
Reasons for the answer to the above question, and their implications,
are left as an excercise for the reader....;-)
Charlie
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Alex, I'll try your procedure and see if it helps. I built my brake pedals
with a forward slant of 10 degrees since my feet are so big...size 12 1/2.
The forward slant may be making hard to get full forward pedal motion.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: rpm run up vs tail wheel staying down
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
> <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin"
>> --> <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>>
>> My RV-6A with a 180 HP & constant speed prop will drag it's
>> self along the pavement tires locked at anything above 1500 RPM!
>>
>>
>> Tom in Ohio DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Wow, is that correct? My same setup will take about 2350 rpm to move, and
> even then, it is not the tires sliding. It takes an alarming amount of
> brake pedal pressure to hold it; you are probably sliding the brakes and
> not
> the tires. Put your feet way up on the top edge of the pedal, so that you
> aren't overstressing the rudder pedal weldments. When I have had the prop
> dynamically balanced, I usually do it at 2200 rpm, and my leg muscles can
> feel it the next day.
>
> If the coefficient of friction between the tires and the pavement is
> around
> .8, and the mains are holding about 1200 pounds, for example, it would
> take
> about 1000 pounds of thrust to drag the tires. Ain't happening. I did a
> runup at 1400 rpm on snow a few weeks ago, and didn't slide.
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A N66AP 702 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: Towbar powered with cordless drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
Local guy built his RV-6A in a wheelchair, uses a cordless drill to move it
in and out. He built it with a little welding help from a friend. Wish I
had a picture, but I don't.
A bonanza driver uses an old self propelled electric mower (not a riding
mower) for the same thing. 110 VAC powered, he uses a reversible motor on it.
But if you are not in a wheelchair, it seems to me an old riding lawn mower
would work as well or better. At least it would take a minimal amount of
effort to make it work.
Watch Craigslist for a bargain: http://www.craigslist.org/
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