---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/17/06: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:34 AM - Glueing canopies (Glen Matejcek) 2. 05:29 AM - Re: Newbie fluting question (Charlie Kuss) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Charlie Kuss) 4. 06:19 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Rob Prior (rv7)) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Bob J) 6. 07:27 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Mickey Coggins) 7. 08:05 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 8. 08:28 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Randall Richter) 9. 08:45 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Ron Lee) 10. 09:12 AM - Re: Glueing canopies (Mickey Coggins) 11. 09:21 AM - Re: XP-360 Very Rough Running Engine (Jeff Dowling) 12. 10:13 AM - Re: Newbie fluting question (Pat Hatch) 13. 10:52 AM - FS: Strong parachute (Ken Balch) 14. 12:15 PM - CYL high temp (lowell lemay) 15. 12:31 PM - Re: CYL high temp (James Clark) 16. 03:15 PM - Re: Newbie fluting question () 17. 03:24 PM - Re: CYL high temp (Kelly McMullen) 18. 04:17 PM - Re: CYL high temp (LarryRobertHelming) 19. 07:04 PM - Re: CYL high temp (Alex Peterson) 20. 07:48 PM - Garmin Avionics Trays (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 21. 08:19 PM - deburring inside of ribs (Folbrecht, Paul) 22. 09:15 PM - Re: deburring inside of ribs (Jim Cimino) 23. 09:27 PM - Tools For Sale: Pneumatic Squeezer, Flange Nose Yoke, Rivet Set Kit, Edge Roller (William Scaringe) 24. 10:26 PM - Re: Re: Newbie fluting question (Albert Gardner) 25. 11:23 PM - Re: Garmin Avionics Trays (Greg Young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:13 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com. Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:54 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Newbie fluting question --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss David, 1 Debur first. It will be very difficult to deburr after adding fluting crimps. The fluting will not require the edges to be deburred again. 2 Fluting is generally only required on the long side flanges. The spars mate to the "short" front & rear edges of the ribs. If required, fluting will not hurt the short sides, providing you do not place a flute at the same point a rivet hole is required. This rule holds true everywhere. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: David Karlsberg > >1. Debur or flute first? > >2. Do I flute the flange that attaches to the spar? > >Thanks, >David > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:37 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Glen, Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies? Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > >Hi All- > >Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue >canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com. > >Glen Matejcek >aerobubba@earthlink.net > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:41 AM PST US From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies? >From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search engine is your friend): --- Hi Mickey, I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika 209 primer from Jamestown Distributors. Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat builder supply store located in Rhode Island. I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than case lots. They also take credit card orders over the phone. They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground so it could take a while to receive depending upon where you live. If you get some let me know what you think about it. Jim Ellis finishing canopy RV9-A tip up --- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:20 AM PST US From: Bob J Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Bob J I used 295, the cleaner which leaves a film (adhesion promoter), and the black primer. I can grab the edge of the canopy and shake the whole airplane. If you are patient and careful with it, you will have great results with the sikaflex process. Having done it once I wouldn't do it any other way, as others have said. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 1/17/06, Charlie Kuss wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > > Glen, > Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies? > Charlie Kuss > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > > > >Hi All- > > > >Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue > >canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com. > > > >Glen Matejcek > >aerobubba@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:07 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins And I took Jim's advice. I got great service and a fair price from Jamestown Distributors. The price was less ordering from there and having it shipped to Switzerland than it was to buy it locally - and it's made here! Mickey Rob Prior (rv7) wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" > > On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss >> Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies? > > >>From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search > engine is your friend): > > --- > Hi Mickey, > > I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika > 209 primer from Jamestown Distributors. > Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat > builder supply store located in Rhode Island. > > I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than case > lots. They also take credit card orders > over the phone. > > They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com > > Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground > so it could take a while to receive depending > upon where you live. > > If you get some let me know what you think about it. > > Jim Ellis > finishing canopy > RV9-A tip up > --- > > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:21 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Bob J wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J > >I used 295, the cleaner which leaves a film (adhesion promoter), and the >black primer. I can grab the edge of the canopy and shake the whole >airplane. If you are patient and careful with it, you will have great >results with the sikaflex process. Having done it once I wouldn't do it any >other way, as others have said. > >Regards, >Bob Japundza >RV-6 flying F1 under const. > > > If I were doing it again, I would glue mine. I got a crack in mine with the pop rivets. There is no real precise way of knowing how much pressure the rivet will pop at and if it goes too much, it can crack the canopy like mine did. "normally" not a problem, but mine was well fitted and it pulled too hard. I almost knew it was going to happen when I was pulling the rivet. luckily the crack is under the top piece of aluminum and runs from one hole to another and it is practically invisble.. There are probably some out there that have cracks between holes that don't even know it because they are hidden. Phil in Illinois > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:12 AM PST US From: "Randall Richter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Richter" Guys, while we're on the subject, does anyone have any data on the weight penalty, if any, of gluing as apposed to riveting? There's the obvious advantage of less probability of cracking, but for some (those in warmer climes) that's less of a concern. Thanks! Randy Richter -7QB in embryonic stage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob J Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Bob J I used 295, the cleaner which leaves a film (adhesion promoter), and the black primer. I can grab the edge of the canopy and shake the whole airplane. If you are patient and careful with it, you will have great results with the sikaflex process. Having done it once I wouldn't do it any other way, as others have said. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:48 AM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >If I were doing it again, I would glue mine. I got a crack in mine with >the pop rivets. There is no real precise way of knowing how much >pressure the rivet will pop at and if it goes too much, it can crack the >canopy like mine did. Another alternative is using rivnuts. With those you can apply less pressure than pop rivets. Maybe even a little glue too. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:04 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Glueing canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi Randy, There is no doubt in my mind that gluing is heavier. I can't tell you how much, but two or three tubes (standard caulk size) will weigh more than a handful of rivets. Mickey Randall Richter wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Richter" > > Guys, while we're on the subject, does anyone have any data on the weight > penalty, if any, of gluing as apposed to riveting? There's the obvious > advantage of less probability of cracking, but for some (those in warmer > climes) that's less of a concern. > > Thanks! > > Randy Richter > -7QB in embryonic stage > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:45 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: XP-360 Very Rough Running Engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" That sure seems sensitive. I can turn my Bendix injector full turns will little change. Maybe mine is screwed up. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Grant" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: XP-360 Very Rough Running Engine > --> RV-List message posted by: Jordan Grant > > For the archives: > > I adjusted my fuel mixture today and the engine is now purring like a > kitten!! As it turns out, the engine was not running rich, it was > running too lean! I turned the adjustment about 1/2 turn (2 or 3 flats) > to the rich side of where it was when I received it. The engine started > right up and ran very nicely. Another flat to the rich side and it would > satisfy the 50 rpm rise test when pulling the mixture out. > > My airplane is now ready to go fly. > > Jordan Grant > RV-6 N198G > Ready to fly, just need to do weight/balance, and go fly it!! > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Peterson >>Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:57 AM >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: RV-List: XP-360 Very Rough Running Engine >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" >> >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jordan Grant >>> >>>Listers: >>> I have an engine problem - maybe one of you can help. I >>>just did the first start of my engine 2 weeks ago and tried >>>it again yesterday. Here are the symptoms: >>>1) Brand-new XP-360 built by Aerosport Power with Airflow >>>Performance Fuel Injection, >>> >>> >> >> SNIP >> >> >> >>>Jordan Grant >>>RV-6 >>>Finally done, if the engine would behave... >>> >>> >> >>Jordan, the book which comes with the Airflow Performance unit is very >>thorough in this regard. You are probably correct in guessing that the >>idle >>mixture is way too rich. Refer to the book. I believe that when Bart >>runs >>the engine, he uses a carb and not the injection system. >> >>Alex Peterson >>RV6-A N66AP 704 hours >>Maple Grove, MN >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:13 AM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Newbie fluting question --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" 1. Debur first, then flute. Otherwise your deburring tool will snag on the flutes. 2. Do not flute the flange that attaches to the spar. Wrong axis (flutting the top and bottom flanges straightens the rib parallel to the chord line). Pat Hatch RV-6 RV-7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Karlsberg Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:02 AM Subject: RV-List: Newbie fluting question --> RV-List message posted by: David Karlsberg 1. Debur or flute first? 2. Do I flute the flange that attaches to the spar? Thanks, David ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:03 AM PST US From: Ken Balch Subject: RV-List: FS: Strong parachute --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch For Sale: Strong Para-Cushion Seat 304 emergency parachute. This chute was used for the flight testing of two RVs (never jumped), and is in perfect condition. It fits great in the front seats of the RV-8 and the RV-4. It's navy blue with gray trim and comes with its original Strong carry bag. I have no use for it at the moment and would like to see it go to a good home. The price for a new one is $1545. The first offer of $1300 will take mine and I'll pay for shipping in the lower 48. Regards, Ken Balch RV-8 N118KB (sold, and sorely missed...) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:16 PM PST US From: "lowell lemay" Subject: RV-List: CYL high temp --> RV-List message posted by: "lowell lemay" Anyone have any new ideas on how to bring down the CYL temp on a new Mattituck O-360 RV-7 with plenum chamber? Have plugged most holes..placed horizontal flanges on top inside of plenum near the split in the cyl heads, and cut off 1 inch across the middle bottom of the under cowling. Started with over 425 on # 3 & 4 with 70% power and have them down to about 380 with 55 F OAT. Will need more room when it gets hot...........Now have 40 hours and consider it broken in...Lowell ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:35 PM PST US From: James Clark Subject: Re: RV-List: CYL high temp --> RV-List message posted by: James Clark Lowell ... Are cylinders 1 & 2 extra cool? If so, maybe an air dam in from of them will divert some of the cooling air to 3 & 4. James On 1/17/06, lowell lemay wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "lowell lemay" > > Anyone have any new ideas on how to bring down the CYL temp on a new > Mattituck O-360 RV-7 with plenum chamber? Have plugged most holes..placed > horizontal flanges on top inside of plenum near the split in the cyl heads, > and cut off 1 inch across the middle bottom of the under cowling. Started > with over 425 on # 3 & 4 with 70% power and have them down to about 380 with > 55 F OAT. Will need more room when it gets hot...........Now have 40 hours > and consider it broken in...Lowell > > -- This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:01 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Newbie fluting question --> RV-List message posted by: Subject: Newbie fluting question From: David Karlsberg >1. Debur or flute first? Debur first. In fact make a production line. Do all you deburring first on all the parts you are working with at the time, than do all the fluting. Save time. It is easier to debur with a straight flange than one with flutes but it can be done. Usually after debur, flute I may go over the flange with the belt sander or vixen file to even the flange out sometimes to make a the flange even width, but this is not necessary. >2. Do I flute the flange that attaches to the spar? No, when sheet metal is bent in a straight line fluting is not usually needed. If there is a curved surface and a flange than flutes are usually needed. If the rib is not flat across the spar flange it should be so small as not not make a difference. Go slow and even and flute as little as possible, you can always squeeze or or tap out over fluting but you usually want to slowly work up to the point of straight with out over doing it. The more curved the flange the deeper the flutes. Get and use good quality flute pliers, the cheap ones and ones that make wide flutes suck. Check Avery or Cleaveland tools. http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/home.asp --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: CYL high temp From: "Kelly McMullen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" Make sure you have at least a 1/8" gap behind the #3 cylinder to allow air to flow between the baffling and the cylinder. If you don't, no air will flow on the back side of the head. Don't know why you have trouble with #4. Also, be sure the baffles on the underside of the cylinders are up tight against the cylinder fins. lowell lemay said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "lowell lemay" > > Anyone have any new ideas on how to bring down the CYL temp on a new > Mattituck O-360 RV-7 with plenum chamber? Have plugged most > holes..placed horizontal flanges on top inside of plenum near the split in > the cyl heads, and cut off 1 inch across the middle bottom of the under > cowling. Started with over 425 on # 3 & 4 with 70% power and have them > down to about 380 with 55 F OAT. Will need more room when it gets > hot...........Now have 40 hours and consider it broken in...Lowell > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:16 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: CYL high temp --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" You should also check the cooling fins in the area around the spark plugs. On my TMX last year, I found some of them filled up with some sort of slag or manufacturing stuff. (I could not see through when shining a light on the other side so that air could flow through) I had to drill through it and file it out using a real small file. Also putting a washer behind the #3 cylinder to create a gap between the cylinder and the baffle is a good thing to do. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" > > Make sure you have at least a 1/8" gap behind the #3 cylinder to allow air > to flow between the baffling and the cylinder. If you don't, no air will > flow on the back side of the head. Don't know why you have trouble with > #4. > Also, be sure the baffles on the underside of the cylinders are up tight > against the cylinder fins. > > lowell lemay said: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "lowell lemay" >> >> Anyone have any new ideas on how to bring down the CYL temp on a new >> Mattituck O-360 RV-7 with plenum chamber? Have plugged most >> holes..placed horizontal flanges on top inside of plenum near the split >> in >> the cyl heads, and cut off 1 inch across the middle bottom of the under >> cowling. Started with over 425 on # 3 & 4 with 70% power and have them >> down to about 380 with 55 F OAT. Will need more room when it gets >> hot...........Now have 40 hours and consider it broken in...Lowell >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:30 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: CYL high temp --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "lowell lemay" > > Anyone have any new ideas on how to bring down the CYL temp > on a new Mattituck O-360 RV-7 with plenum chamber? Have > plugged most holes..placed horizontal flanges on top inside > of plenum near the split in the cyl heads, and cut off 1 inch > across the middle bottom of the under cowling. Started with > over 425 on # 3 & 4 with 70% power and have them down to > about 380 with 55 F OAT. Will need more room when it gets > hot...........Now have 40 hours and consider it broken in...Lowell Do you have a MP gauge and fuel flow gauge? Temps are dramatically affected by subtle mixture changes. Do you have EGT's on all four exhausts? If you have all this equipment, you can do a graph of fuel flow vs EGT's. This might identify if the fuel/air charge is somewhat balanced (see where the peaks are relative to one another). Do you have EI or FI? If things are balanced, you might be able to run LOP, which will cool the cylinders by about 40 to 50 degrees F. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 705 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:26 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Garmin Avionics Trays --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Ok folks ya got my attention: Since I'm just about to mount my trays I have a few questions. I bought an Apollo (UPS Aviation Technologies) stack (Audio, SL-30, GX-65 and SL-70) about a year or two before they merged with Garmin. Now I'm finally finishing the panel and about to install the trays. My ruler says that 3 of the trays are exactly 6 1/4 inches wide. The audio panel tray however (SL-10MS, actually a PS Engineering PMA 6000 with Apollo bezel), is about 1/32 wider. So....we been discussing the 6.25 vs 6.3 inch width issue here and I obviously can't install the mounting rails at 6.25 inches apart or I'm not going to be able to fit the audio panel in. What has everyone been doing for mounting rails for these trays? My plan is to use 1/16 aluminum angle (flush) riveted to the back of the instrument panel cutout at the tray's width apart. Is this a good plan or do you recommend doing something else (I already looked at Radio Rax, too spendy)? Is there a standard distance between the two rails that will allow me to add new radio technology later? If I make the rails 6.3 inches apart do I just add shims between the rails and the other (6.25 inch) trays? What do the avionics shops do? How do I mount the trays to the rail? I see two holes in the front and back (sides) of the trays, does one just match drill the rails to these holes and install screws and nuts? Do I need to use a flush head screw inside the tray to allow the radios to slide in? Or....is there a special fastener I use here? Tray position forward and aft. I heard some rumblings about the 480 not seating. Are we trying to get the back of the bezels to just touch the surface of the instrument panel (nicest looking installation) or do they need to stick out a little bit so we don't have seating problems? Is there a standard way to do this or do I just have to fiddle around with it until things match up? Should I slot the mounting holes in the aluminum rails a little to provide some wiggle room? I'm thinking that I'll make both the radio stack cutout in the panel and the aluminum rails the full height of the RV-6 panel. That way I can just make covers that I can remove later if I want to change radios and/or add something like the G430 or MX-20. I was also thinking that I should drill holes in the aluminum angle rails above and below my current stack to facilitate easy install of new trays later. Is there a standard dimension between the holes on the trays or between trays that I can use that will facilitate this (ie. Can I just drill holes in the mounting rails every inch)? Or is this just wishful thinking and I'll have to endure the pain of trying to do this later with the panel in the plane (yuck)? Any other words of wisdom on installing the radio stack? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Enjoying systems install after spending (8+) years as a tin-smith. Time: 08:57:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin avionics trays From: Gerry Filby --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby I just acquired an all Garmin stack - GMA 340, GTX 327, SL40 - all 3 trays are exactly 6.25" g > > --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > I can verify that it's not "fixed"...doubt that it ever will be > except that maybe new models coming out will be more standardized. > > My PS Engineering 8000, GNS480, SL-30, and GTX330 Transponder > had at least one or two of them that were 6.3 while > the others were 6.25. All of it was new this year. > Nothing was a major problem. The biggest problem I had, which > is a tip any GNS480 buyer should remember, is make sure you > mount your GNS480 tray at least flush with the face of your > panel, if not out a couple thousandths. The GNS 480 is > notorious for not seating all the way into it's tray, and your > serial communications won't work. I tried for 2 nights to > get my stuff to talk, and after talking to Stark and getting > that tip, I moved my tray aft a tad and then pushed the radio > in as hard as I could...problem solved. > > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 > > > > Greg Young wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > > > > The issue, at least my experience, was that the PS Engineering tray > > (PS7000 = SL15) was wider that the "real" UPSAT/Garmin units (SL-30, > > SL-70, GX-60 for me) and necessitated spacers for the non-PS units. The > > mounting holes spacing (fore-aft) is not the same either but that's > > really minor. I don't think the Garmin audio panel (GMA340??) is made by > > PS Engineering so it may not have the same issue. > > > > Regards, > > Greg Young - Houston (DWH) > > RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix > > Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: > >> > >>In researching my panel, I occcasionally have come across the > >>gripe that the Garmin avionics trays were non-standard in > >>that they were 6.3 inches wide instead of 6.25, and thus > >>required the use of washers if installed with other > >>non-Garmin components. I recently purchased the Garmin SL-40 > >>transceiver and GTX-327 transponder. Measured the trays, and > >>both were 6.25, so it appears that this issue has been taken > >>care of. Thought I would pass this along to others > >>contemplating panel choices. > >> > >>regards > >> > >>Erich Weaver ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:13 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: deburring inside of ribs From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" What tool do I want for deburring the inside of rib flange holes? The avery swivel doesn't do it. Maybe I could stick the head in the end of the 90-degree drill kit... hmmm. ~Paul ~9A QB #1176 Setting 1st rivets on h. stab tomorrow maybe... ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:11 PM PST US From: "Jim Cimino" Subject: Re: RV-List: deburring inside of ribs --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" I used a Scotch Brite Wheel (small) on an adapter for the drill. Jim Jim Cimino N7TL RV-8 S/N 80039 200+ Hours http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Folbrecht, Paul" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: RV-List: deburring inside of ribs > --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" > > > What tool do I want for deburring the inside of rib flange holes? The > avery swivel doesn't do it. > > Maybe I could stick the head in the end of the 90-degree drill kit... > hmmm. > > ~Paul > ~9A QB #1176 Setting 1st rivets on h. stab tomorrow maybe... > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:28 PM PST US From: William Scaringe Subject: RV-List: Tools For Sale: Pneumatic Squeezer, Flange Nose Yoke, Rivet Set Kit, Edge Roller --> RV-List message posted by: William Scaringe Hi Builders, I'm selling these high quality tools on eBay: CP-214 Pneumatic Rivet C-Yoke Squeezer (item 7582769556) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582769556 2.5" Flange Nose Yoke (item 7582766998) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582766998 Rivet Squeezer Set and Dimple Die Kit with Rivet Reader Set (item 7582766017) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582766017 Cleaveland Aircraft Aluminum Edge Forming Roller Tool (item 7582763388) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582763388 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:11 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Newbie fluting question --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" At the same time, bend as necessary to make the rib edges perpendicular to the web so the skin lays flat. Also after fluting and straightening run the tip of the nose rib against a disk sander to make sure the curve is smooth. Any bumps or irregularities may cause a bump in the skin. If the rib isn't flat against the skin, riveting may cause a depression where the skin is pulled down to the rib. You have to flute before you can assemble and match drill otherwise the rib holes won't match the skin holes. My sequence is: 1. Dress all edges against the scotchbright wheel. 2. Flute the rib as necessary to make it lay flat (this will put all rivet hole is a line). 3. Bend the edges if necessary so they are perpendicular to the web. 4. Assemble, match drill. 5. Deburr and dimple. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin Avionics Trays From: "Greg Young" Cc: --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Dean, I've got the same stack going into my -6 and am also flying one in my Navion. I used 3/4x3/4x.063 angle for my rails and match drilled them for the holes in the trays and mounted nutplates on the rails. I used flat head screws for mounting. The audio panel tray is flush with the front of the rails and the SL & GX trays set back further to get the front panels lined up the way I wanted. There's an .063 doubler plus the .063 panel on top of the rails so the radios set 1/8 below the panel surface. I spaced the rails slightly wider (5-10 thou) than the audio panel tray because the radio bezel is wider than the tray. I made shim strips, drilled to the mounting holes, for both sides of the SL/GX's. The mounting holes are not spaced to any standard plus you can alter the spacing between the radios. The audio panel holes will not necessarily align vertically with the SL/GX depending on how you want the bezels to align. I have elected to rebuild the rails if I want to change the stack in the future. I too looked at Radiorax and found them just a little pricey. I'll send you some pictures offline of my -6 panel. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" > --> > > > Ok folks ya got my attention: > > Since I'm just about to mount my trays I have a few > questions. I bought an Apollo (UPS Aviation Technologies) > stack (Audio, SL-30, GX-65 and SL-70) about a year or two > before they merged with Garmin. Now I'm finally finishing > the panel and about to install the trays. My ruler says that > 3 of the trays are exactly 6 1/4 inches wide. The audio > panel tray however (SL-10MS, actually a PS Engineering PMA > 6000 with Apollo bezel), is about > 1/32 wider. So....we been discussing the 6.25 vs 6.3 inch > width issue here and I obviously can't install the mounting > rails at 6.25 inches apart or I'm not going to be able to fit > the audio panel in. > > What has everyone been doing for mounting rails for these > trays? My plan is to use 1/16 aluminum angle (flush) riveted > to the back of the instrument panel cutout at the tray's > width apart. Is this a good plan or do you recommend doing > something else (I already looked at Radio Rax, too spendy)? > Is there a standard distance between the two rails that will > allow me to add new radio technology later? If I make the > rails 6.3 inches apart do I just add shims between the rails > and the other (6.25 inch) trays? What do the avionics shops > do? How do I mount the trays to the rail? I see two holes > in the front and back (sides) of the trays, does one just > match drill the rails to these holes and install screws and > nuts? Do I need to use a flush head screw inside the tray to > allow the radios to slide in? Or....is there a special > fastener I use here? > > Tray position forward and aft. I heard some rumblings about > the 480 not seating. Are we trying to get the back of the > bezels to just touch the surface of the instrument panel > (nicest looking installation) or do they need to stick out a > little bit so we don't have seating problems? Is there a > standard way to do this or do I just have to fiddle around > with it until things match up? Should I slot the mounting > holes in the aluminum rails a little to provide some wiggle room? > > I'm thinking that I'll make both the radio stack cutout in > the panel and the aluminum rails the full height of the RV-6 > panel. That way I can just make covers that I can remove > later if I want to change radios and/or add something like > the G430 or MX-20. I was also thinking that I should drill > holes in the aluminum angle rails above and below my current > stack to facilitate easy install of new trays later. Is > there a standard dimension between the holes on the trays or > between trays that I can use that will facilitate this (ie. > Can I just drill holes in the mounting rails every inch)? Or > is this just wishful thinking and I'll have to endure the > pain of trying to do this later with the panel in the plane > (yuck)? Any other words of wisdom on installing the radio > stack? Thanks. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Enjoying systems install after spending (8+) years as a tin-smith. > --