---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/30/06: 78 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:46 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ () 2. 03:23 AM - Service variations (Nic) 3. 03:56 AM - Service variations - Intercom (Glen Matejcek) 4. 04:39 AM - Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Smitty) 5. 05:25 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (linn Walters) 6. 05:27 AM - Re: Service variations (Charlie Kuss) 7. 05:36 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bill Schlatterer) 8. 05:57 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (smittysrv) 9. 06:17 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 10. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bruce Gray) 11. 06:26 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (smittysrv) 12. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV9) 13. 06:29 AM - Re: 1st rivet's confussion (Tailgummer@aol.com) 14. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bob Collins) 15. 06:43 AM - Re: Engine problems (AYRES, JIMMY L) 16. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 17. 07:02 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (smittysrv) 18. 07:05 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Fly n Low) 19. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 20. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bob Collins) 21. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Folbrecht, Paul) 22. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bob Collins) 23. 07:21 AM - Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (smittysrv) 24. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 25. 07:27 AM - Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Folbrecht, Paul) 26. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 27. 07:39 AM - Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 28. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Bob Collins) 29. 08:15 AM - Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Mickey Coggins) 30. 08:17 AM - Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Glaeser, Dennis A) 31. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 32. 08:40 AM - Low Time IO-360 A1A (Rhonda Bewley) 33. 08:59 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Tedd McHenry) 34. 09:06 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Jim Anglin) 35. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins)) 36. 10:20 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Mickey Coggins) 37. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Folbrecht, Paul) 38. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Tim Olson) 39. 11:08 AM - Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint (Folbrecht, Paul) 40. 11:33 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Dwight Frye) 41. 11:34 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Tedd McHenry) 42. 11:40 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Gerry Filby) 43. 11:53 AM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Kysh) 44. 12:01 PM - O320 to O360 conversion (AYRES, JIMMY L) 45. 12:05 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (linn Walters) 46. 12:14 PM - Re: O320 to O360 conversion (bdjones1965) 47. 12:16 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 48. 12:16 PM - Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint (Folbrecht, Paul) 49. 12:39 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Chuck Jensen) 50. 12:41 PM - Re: O320 to O360 conversion (BPA) 51. 01:06 PM - Re: O320 to O360 conversion (Darrell Reiley) 52. 01:09 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Dwight Frye) 53. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: O320 to O360 conversion (Oliver Washburn) 54. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Kevin Horton) 55. 02:13 PM - RV Wiki FAQ Do not archive (Ron Lee) 56. 02:53 PM - Re: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint (Charlie Kuss) 57. 02:56 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (c.ennis) 58. 03:25 PM - Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (Randy Lervold) 59. 03:31 PM - Re: PC Simulators (Scott Diffenbaugh) 60. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Paul Trotter) 61. 04:10 PM - Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (Darrell Reiley) 62. 04:19 PM - Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (Kyle Boatright) 63. 04:28 PM - Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? (Mark Burns) 64. 04:43 PM - Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (James Freeman) 65. 04:54 PM - Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (Alex Peterson) 66. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (PJ Seipel) 67. 05:11 PM - Re: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint (Bob Perkinson) 68. 05:22 PM - Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch (Jerry Grimmonpre) 69. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye (Paul Trotter) 70. 05:56 PM - Re: RV Wiki FAQ (Jerry Springer) 71. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: O320 to O360 conversion (Bruce Gray) 72. 07:27 PM - Rudder questions (Sherman Butler) 73. 07:30 PM - nut plate revets (Sherman Butler) 74. 07:38 PM - Re: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint (Patrick Kelley) 75. 09:52 PM - Re: nut plate revets (Bob C.) 76. 10:45 PM - Request for Kitplanes Magazine: Avionics Shops for Hazard Avoidance Installation (Cory Emberson) 77. 11:30 PM - Re: nut plate revets (Vanremog@aol.com) 78. 11:53 PM - Re: nut plate revets (Jeff Point) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:50 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Even though I still support the RV-list, it's getting very difficult to use because of the constant bombardment of chatter that has nothing to do with a given subject line. I don't want to spend a lot of time going through a lot of trash mail just to find out that I didn't get the answer to my question, anyway. Some think of the RV-list as a chat room that's open for discussion on anything. If "do not archive" is used, it's not a totally bad thing; but, many don't use it and fill the archives with garbage mail that keeps building and building. If Matt had some way to clean out the garbage, that would be fine; but, he keeps adding more lists, which makes it even more difficult to manage at the micro level. I know nothing about wikis and blogs; but, I may have to go back to the wiki and take a second look. It may be what we more serious listers are looking for. I've been on the RV-list for about ten years; but, I can change. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS RV-7A #70317 (finishing wings) EAA Tech Counselor do not archive > My read is that he wants concise writeups on those subjects for all to > use, not advice on random subjects for himself. The wiki will be much > more useful than this list for 'how-to' questions, because a searcher > won't have to wade through literally 10's of thousands of messages to > find an answer. Even using the search engine on the list, you still must > read through dozens or even hundreds of 'me too', 'I agree', posts > written about totally different subjects but with the wrong subject > line, etc to get an answer. > > Wiki's are great tools once they are populated with data. Go prowl > around Wikipedia & pick just about any subject of interest to see how > useful they can be. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:20 AM PST US From: "Nic" Subject: RV-List: Service variations --> RV-List message posted by: "Nic" Bob - I don't have an issue with items that are on backorder, I do however think that suppliers have a duty to stick to their promises. In this case ACS promised fast track delivery on the items I ordered, and only when they didn't arrive ten days later and I chased them did they finally admit that the goods would not be despatched for weeks to come. Had I known this from the outset it would have saved me numerous overseas calls and I would have ordered from an outlet that had the goods ready to ship. Many thanks for all the help to source an alternative intercom, Now I just need to know which is the best two place 2 1/4" intercom with music input that is available off the shelf at any reasonable price. Rgds, Nic > Sunday night I ordered some parts from ACS and I received them Wedensday > USPS. I don't know how they could get much quicker, unless I paid the > overnight freight. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:03 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Service variations - Intercom --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: Re: RV-List: Service variations - Intercom Hi Nic- I agree that ACS has the greatest catalog and also agree with all the negatives that have been offered up. To add one, I had occasion to require a special order part. I was unable to determine from the catalog if Spruce could help, so I called for guidance. The ACS employee on the other end assured me that they could have it special made. When the part arrived, it was the wrong thing. When I called again, the agent I got was rather short and condescending about my having ordered the wrong item. On the other hand, Wicks has sent me the wrong item twice, but they are always pleasant to deal with. Also, since I only live one state away, an order placed in the morning will generally arrive the following afternoon with their regular shipping rates. Not much to complain about there. WRT the intercom issue, I believe that PS Engineering's PMA 4000 can be had with a face plate for a std instrument hole. > >At the other end of the scale, Aircraft Spruce... ...I am >at a loss as I urgently need a suitable 2 place intercom with a face plate >that will fit a 21/4" hole in my existing panel - any suggestions please ? > >Thanks, Nic Glen Matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:15 AM PST US From: "Smitty" Subject: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" So long to a good friend. The Yahoo RV lists are going to be decommisioned on February 15, 2006. I have long been a member, looking forward to reading about the trials, tribulations and joys of the RV world. These messages from on high (altitude that is) brought joy and meaning to my life in a time when work was not much fun. They, and the Matronics list are the reason that I'm building my very own RV today. I find it sad that personal gain is the motive for their demise. Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:28 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters Smitty, I left the yahoo email list a long time ago, but still monitored it. I'm wondering about the 'personal gain' part. Would you be so kind as to elaborate??? I'm of the opinion that it died because of the slow response time and the 'approval' process. A monitored (and owned) list does have it's good points, as pointed out by Jim Sears. Sometimes there are threads on the Matronics liststhat go on and on and have no relation to the subject of the list at all. Well, I'll put up with that in the interest of free flow of info. It was also a great PITA to put up with Yahoo ads, and the login was always getting screwed up (for me anyway). So I left. I also like the consolidation of multiple lists and appreciate the talent that resides on the Matronics lists. You'll find a lot of 'lost yahoo builders' here. And just remember that in life, as on the lists ..... you'll make new 'friends' easily. Linn do not archive ....... and this need to be used a whole lot more!!!! Smitty wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" > >So long to a good friend. The Yahoo RV lists are going to be decommisioned >on February 15, 2006. I have long been a member, looking forward to reading >about the trials, tribulations and joys of the RV world. These messages from >on high (altitude that is) brought joy and meaning to my life in a time when >work was not much fun. They, and the Matronics list are the reason that I'm >building my very own RV today. > >I find it sad that personal gain is the motive for their demise. > >Smitty's RV-9A >http://SmittysRV.com > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:39 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Service variations --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Nic, I would suggest that in future, when dealing with ACS, you do your ordering off of their web site. Their site will show you whether the item in question is in stock (and at which of their two warehouses) or on back order. I've also found that often the web site price is slightly lower (5%) than the listed paper catalog price. I really like using the web site to order from them. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "Nic" > >Bob - I don't have an issue with items that are on backorder, I do however >think that suppliers have a duty to stick to their promises. In this case >ACS promised fast track delivery on the items I ordered, and only when they >didn't arrive ten days later and I chased them did they finally admit that >the goods would not be despatched for weeks to come. > >Had I known this from the outset it would have saved me numerous overseas >calls and I would have ordered from an outlet that had the goods ready to >ship. > >Many thanks for all the help to source an alternative intercom, Now I just >need to know which is the best two place 2 1/4" intercom with music input >that is available off the shelf at any reasonable price. > >Rgds, Nic > > > Sunday night I ordered some parts from ACS and I received them Wedensday > > USPS. I don't know how they could get much quicker, unless I paid the > > overnight freight. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:07 AM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" Why ? Bill S 7a -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Smitty Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:36 AM Subject: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" So long to a good friend. The Yahoo RV lists are going to be decommisioned on February 15, 2006. I have long been a member, looking forward to reading about the trials, tribulations and joys of the RV world. These messages from on high (altitude that is) brought joy and meaning to my life in a time when work was not much fun. They, and the Matronics list are the reason that I'm building my very own RV today. I find it sad that personal gain is the motive for their demise. Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:01 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "smittysrv" --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" Hi Linn, I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a website to search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages "come to you". I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find anything on the forum website for this reason. I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email and got over 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum website. When I post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes directly to the other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum website that is jammed full of advertisements. Smitty -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8101#8101 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" The response time and approval process are both controlled by the owner of the group. Unmoderated lists on Yahoo are lightning fast, even faster than our list here. The personal gain part alludes to the fact the current owner of the Yahoo lists can not control, or insert, advertising for which he has substantial gain on his own website. There is absolutely no reason why the current owner of the lists can't either turn off moderation or turn the list over to someone else to continue on the legacy and searchable archive. I'm willing to bet he will not release the list names either thereby preventing someone else from recreating them and continuing on. Either way the community looses out on a resource. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:22 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters Smitty, I left the yahoo email list a long time ago, but still monitored it. I'm wondering about the 'personal gain' part. Would you be so kind as to elaborate??? I'm of the opinion that it died because of the slow response time and the 'approval' process. A monitored (and owned) list does have it's good points, as pointed out by Jim Sears. Sometimes there are threads on the Matronics liststhat go on and on and have no relation to the subject of the list at all. Well, I'll put up with that in the interest of free flow of info. It was also a great PITA to put up with Yahoo ads, and the login was always getting screwed up (for me anyway). So I left. I also like the consolidation of multiple lists and appreciate the talent that resides on the Matronics lists. You'll find a lot of 'lost yahoo builders' here. And just remember that in life, as on the lists ..... you'll make new 'friends' easily. Linn do not archive ....... and this need to be used a whole lot more!!!! Smitty wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Smitty" > >So long to a good friend. The Yahoo RV lists are going to be >decommisioned on February 15, 2006. I have long been a member, looking >forward to reading about the trials, tribulations and joys of the RV >world. These messages from on high (altitude that is) brought joy and >meaning to my life in a time when work was not much fun. They, and the >Matronics list are the reason that I'm building my very own RV today. > >I find it sad that personal gain is the motive for their demise. > >Smitty's RV-9A >http://SmittysRV.com > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:24 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Huh? Matronics RV list is email based. Bruce www.glasair.org Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" Hi Linn, I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a website to search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages "come to you". I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find anything on the forum website for this reason. I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email and got over 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum website. When I post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes directly to the other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum website that is jammed full of advertisements. Smitty -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8101#8101 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:04 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "smittysrv" --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" I'm not talking about the Matronics email list. My concern is about the loss of the Yahoo email list and being incouraged to go the Van's Air Force Forum website. Smitty -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8116#8116 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:54 AM PST US From: RV9 Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: RV9 More than a year ago when Doug Reeves threatened to shut down the Yahoo lists I initiated four RV related Yahoo lists of my own to take their place if and when he really shut down the originals. I, like many others, prefer an Email list that's moderated. The sorry thing is that the archives will die when Doug pulls the plug. A number of people found these lists on their own and subscribed but there hasn't been a lot of activity because of the small subscriber base. If you would like to move over to the new Yahoo lists, here are the Email addresses to subscribe : RV-7-subscribe@yahoogroups.com RV-10-subscribe@yahoogroups.com RV-9-subscribe@yahoogroups.com vans-airforce-subscribe@yahoogroups.com We can also create additional YAHOO groups if desired. -- Best regards, Steve Mottin Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9@charter.net P.S. I also subscribe to and like the Matronics lists, but sometimes their unmoderated nature can lead to some really off-topic posts. Monday, January 30, 2006, 7:55:00 AM, you wrote: -->> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" s> Hi Linn, s> I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a website to s> search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages "come to you". I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. s> For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find anything s> on the forum website for this reason. s> I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email and got over 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum website. When I post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes s> directly to the other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. s> It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum website that is jammed full of advertisements. s> Smitty s> -------- s> Smittys RV-9A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:13 AM PST US From: Tailgummer@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: 1st rivet's confussion --> RV-List message posted by: Tailgummer@aol.com One thing to keep in mind is that if you ever needed to drill out and replace a rivet, it is way easier and more accurate (less likely to enlarge or mess up a hole) if you have access to the manufactured head. John D'Onofrio RV8 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:46 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Anybody can set up a Yahoogroup. Just set one up and then post a message in the one that's departing. Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" > > I'm not talking about the Matronics email list. My concern is > about the loss of the Yahoo email list and being incouraged > to go the Van's Air Force Forum website. > > Smitty > > -------- > Smittys RV-9A > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8116#8116 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:35 AM PST US From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine problems --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" Many thanks to all who provided feedback in helping me identify my engine problem. I finally had time of the past weekend to try some of the many suggestions. And as most of you who responded guessed, it was an induction leak. I connected the discharge side of a shop vac to the bottom of the carb intake, duct taped it up the best I could and turn the vac on. Then began spraying soapy water around the induction components. I immediately began to see bubbles forming at the right rear induction tube near the engine. Turns out that the steel tube that inserts into the aluminum cast oil pan was loose and leaking. Again, many thanks to everyone who helped point me to the problem. Jimmy Ayres RV6A - flying RV7A - building ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I believe he was talking about the owners replacement to the Yahoo email lists are forums. That's the nice thing about the Matronics lists, they are in both formats giving people the option of using either and not missing anything. Michael Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:19 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Huh? Matronics RV list is email based. Bruce www.glasair.org Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" Hi Linn, I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a website to search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages "come to you". I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find anything on the forum website for this reason. I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email and got over 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum website. When I post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes directly to the other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum website that is jammed full of advertisements. Smitty -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D8101#8101 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:22 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "smittysrv" --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" Clearly the loss of the Yahoo RV Email Groups will be a great shot in the arm for the Matronics Email List. I can see that Matronics system will become (if not already) the number one source of immediate info for RV builders. The Vans Air Force website is still a great place to go for the latest stories and pictures, but their forum will never surpass Matronics. -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8133#8133 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:19 AM PST US From: "Fly n Low" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: "Fly n Low" AMEN JIM; I have been on the list for about a year and have found it to be very time consuming to gain anything from it. I have ask questions a couple of time and been ignored. The list does not seem to cater to anyone who is building a traditional airplane, rather it seem to be for those building high tech machines. I have found that over the past few months I have not even read the emails, simply stored them. This one simply caught my eye so I am responding. Bud Silvers RV - 8 finishing in Colorado... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of sears@searnet.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:38 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Even though I still support the RV-list, it's getting very difficult to use because of the constant bombardment of chatter that has nothing to do with a given subject line. I don't want to spend a lot of time going through a lot of trash mail just to find out that I didn't get the answer to my question, anyway. Some think of the RV-list as a chat room that's open for discussion on anything. If "do not archive" is used, it's not a totally bad thing; but, many don't use it and fill the archives with garbage mail that keeps building and building. If Matt had some way to clean out the garbage, that would be fine; but, he keeps adding more lists, which makes it even more difficult to manage at the micro level. I know nothing about wikis and blogs; but, I may have to go back to the wiki and take a second look. It may be what we more serious listers are looking for. I've been on the RV-list for about ten years; but, I can change. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS RV-7A #70317 (finishing wings) EAA Tech Counselor do not archive > My read is that he wants concise writeups on those subjects for all to > use, not advice on random subjects for himself. The wiki will be much > more useful than this list for 'how-to' questions, because a searcher > won't have to wade through literally 10's of thousands of messages to > find an answer. Even using the search engine on the list, you still must > read through dozens or even hundreds of 'me too', 'I agree', posts > written about totally different subjects but with the wrong subject > line, etc to get an answer. > > Wiki's are great tools once they are populated with data. Go prowl > around Wikipedia & pick just about any subject of interest to see how > useful they can be. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" What is the benefit for doing this? The big thing is we loose the Yahoo archives. Creating new lists just creates another list to watch or splits the base from here. Seems like it would be more valuable to encourage people to join the Matronics lists if the Yahoo lists are being killed. My $0.02 Michael Sausen Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV9 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: RV9 More than a year ago when Doug Reeves threatened to shut down the Yahoo lists I initiated four RV related Yahoo lists of my own to take their place if and when he really shut down the originals. I, like many others, prefer an Email list that's moderated. The sorry thing is that the archives will die when Doug pulls the plug. A number of people found these lists on their own and subscribed but there hasn't been a lot of activity because of the small subscriber base. If you would like to move over to the new Yahoo lists, here are the Email addresses to subscribe : RV-7-subscribe@yahoogroups.com RV-10-subscribe@yahoogroups.com RV-9-subscribe@yahoogroups.com vans-airforce-subscribe@yahoogroups.com We can also create additional YAHOO groups if desired. -- Best regards, Steve Mottin Granbury, Texas mailto:rv9@charter.net P.S. I also subscribe to and like the Matronics lists, but sometimes their unmoderated nature can lead to some really off-topic posts. Monday, January 30, 2006, 7:55:00 AM, you wrote: -->> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" s> Hi Linn, s> I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct s> response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a website to search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages "come to you". I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. s> For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to s> pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find anything on the forum website for this reason. s> I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email and got over s> 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum website. When I post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes directly to the other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. s> It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum website that is jammed full of advertisements. s> Smitty s> -------- s> Smittys RV-9A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:40 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Oh by the way, you can find a list of all the people who are on a Yahoogroups list just by clicking "members" on the left side navigation. So if you wanted to start a group and put the work into it, the data is available to allow you to do that. But it takes time. Do not archive. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:41 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > > > Anybody can set up a Yahoogroup. Just set one up and then > post a message in the one that's departing. > > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 AM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" > > > > I'm not talking about the Matronics email list. My concern is > > about the loss of the Yahoo email list and being incouraged > > to go the Van's Air Force Forum website. > > > > Smitty > > > > -------- > > Smittys RV-9A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8116#8116 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" Which begs the question as to why the other lists are needed at all. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I believe he was talking about the owners replacement to the Yahoo email lists are forums. That's the nice thing about the Matronics lists, they are in both formats giving people the option of using either and not missing anything. Michael Do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:02 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Losing the archive is no big deal since the Yahoo search engine is so pathetic. I think Yahoogroups, because of the e-mail fucntion -- is a good way of getting stuff answered in a hurry, but it's not a good place to retrieve archived information. For that, Matronics lists are superior and probably the best format out there. The Forums are a nice thing for threaded discussion but, because there are so many, it's a bit more difficlt to get the attention of the eyeballs who may have the answer you're looking for. The new RSS functions on the VAF aren't very good and don't come close to the RSS functionality of the Yahoogroups. There is, of course, no RSS functionality with the Matronics lists. Every format has its advantages and disadvantages, which presumably, is why most people -- well, at leat a lot of peopl e-- have regularly hung out in all three. Do not archive. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV9 > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:23 AM > To: smittysrv > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > --> RV-List message posted by: RV9 > > > > > More than a year ago when Doug Reeves threatened to shut down > the Yahoo lists I initiated four RV related Yahoo lists of my > own to take their place if and when he really shut down the > originals. I, like many others, prefer an Email list that's > moderated. The sorry thing is that the archives will die when > Doug pulls the plug. A number of people found these lists on > their own and subscribed but there hasn't been a lot of > activity because of the small subscriber base. If you would > like to move over to the new Yahoo lists, here are the Email > addresses to subscribe : > > > RV-7-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > RV-10-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > RV-9-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > vans-airforce-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > We can also create additional YAHOO groups if desired. > > > -- > Best regards, > > Steve Mottin > Granbury, Texas > mailto:rv9@charter.net > > P.S. I also subscribe to and like the Matronics lists, but > sometimes their unmoderated nature can lead to some really > off-topic posts. > > > Monday, January 30, 2006, 7:55:00 AM, you wrote: > > -->> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" > > s> Hi Linn, > > s> I prefer the Yahoo email groups because of the fast and direct > s> response I get to my office email box. I get to read everybodys > s> submissions as they happen. I don't want to have to go a > website to > s> search read for submissions. The Yahoo email messages > "come to you". > s> I have learned a lot from reading submissions that sometimes don't > s> necessarly apply to me in my current construction phase. > > s> For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to > s> pull in all of advertisement images on the forum website takes > s> forever. I have given up a long time ago trying to find > anything on > s> the forum website for this reason. > > s> I recently posted an email message to the Yahoo RV email > and got over > s> 15 responses, as compare the "1" I got from the forum > website. When I > s> post an email to the Yahoo RV email group, it goes directly to the > s> other builders email boxes, a few minutes after it is posted. > > s> It is clear to me that I am being forced to go a forum > website that > s> is jammed full of advertisements. > > s> Smitty > > s> -------- > s> Smittys RV-9A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:37 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "smittysrv" --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" Good point Michael! I hadn't thought of that. The loss of the Yahoo RV email archives will indeed be bad. I gone there many times when in dire need of information about certain building processes. Putting builders in a bind, in the name of advertising revenues. -------- Smittys RV-9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8142#8142 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 1/30/06 8:03:14 AM Central Standard Time, smitty@smittysrv.com writes: > For those of us who don't have DSL, the amount of time it takes to pull in > all of advertisement images on the forum website takes forever. >>>> And a very special thanks to Matt for keeping the Matronics lists text-only for us who prefer buying airplane gas instead of high speed internet access! Annual fundraiser HUGELY preferred to mindless ads........... And again I'll heartily second comments against archive stuffing by sloppy listers too lazy or thoughtless as to exclude a simple do not archive on irrelevant stuff......... Mark ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" I am close to finishing up my HS and will be doing so this week. I have got to wondering about whether I should do the tips when it's done or just wait and do all of them at the end. I lean towards the latter because I'm afraid of fiberglass, and, seriously, it seems to make more sense to do it all at once (though I guess that is going to mean several weeks of hell all at once). Are there any good reasons I should do the tail tips earlier? Paul 9A QB #1176 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I wouldn't expect anything that advertises another list to make it through moderation on the Yahoo lists. When the RV-10 builders mutinied and moved from Yahoo to Matronics, most of the posts letting everyone know where we went were removed from the archives and then blocked once the owner of the list caught on. We also were routinely having edited posts without any comment that they were edited by the moderator. I'm willing to bet he is being even more diligent if he is shutting down the lists. Michael Sausen Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" Anybody can set up a Yahoogroup. Just set one up and then post a message in the one that's departing. Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" > > I'm not talking about the Matronics email list. My concern is about > the loss of the Yahoo email list and being incouraged to go the Van's > Air Force Forum website. > > Smitty > > -------- > Smittys RV-9A > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D8116#8116 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:16 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 1/30/06 9:29:35 AM Central Standard Time, PFolbrecht@starkinvestments.com writes: > Are there any good reasons I should do the tail tips earlier? >>> Hi Paul- I waited til the end and glad I did. It gave me a lot more time to look at other planes and decide how I wanted to attach them- actually changed my mind a couple of times before committing to final arrangement. Doing all at same time probably will save some time, and your materials/skills will be fresher. You WILL have to deal with that cowling & the gear legs eventually! Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:01 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > I wouldn't expect anything that advertises another list to > make it through moderation on the Yahoo lists. I would. They have in the past and the moderators are good people. I canonly speak for the 7/7A lists however. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:43 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > Are there any good reasons I should do the tail tips earlier? Just to give you a taste of the fun to come. Personally, I'd wait. You will have more experience later, and they will turn out better. I tried to get fancy with mine, and they turned out terrible. If I had waited until I had the chance to see other people's empennage tips, I would have just made them very simple. I have a feeling that I'll be re-doing mine, at least the elevator tips. Yuck. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:58 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" It's really personal choice. No technical or building issues either way. I got my tail F/G started while waiting for my wings to arrive. Did the same with the wing tips, waiting for the fuselage. None of it is done because the new stuff arrived, but at least some of the work is done. Dennis Glaeser 7A Fuselage --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I agree, the moderators are good people. I'm talking about the owner of the list and I am speaking from fact on the -10 Yahoo list. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > I wouldn't expect anything that advertises another list to make it > through moderation on the Yahoo lists. I would. They have in the past and the moderators are good people. I canonly speak for the 7/7A lists however. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:16 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Low Time IO-360 A1A From: "Rhonda Bewley" --> RV-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley" One of our customers is replacing his low-time (300 hours since new) IO-360-A1A with one of our IO-390s and asked me to send a message to let the list know that his engine is for sale. I don't know any other details about the engine He is located in France. His name is Christophe Jacquard with Corsair Warbird, Ltd.. He can be reached by fax at +33 03 80 35 69 19 for additional information if you are interested. Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:41 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry Our vision for the RV Wiki has always been that it would be complementary to the RV List and the other email lists and forums. The wiki is more like that folder full of RV List posts that you keep because they have information you think is valuable. Only it's everyone's folder of valuable posts all compiled together, with indexes, cross references, and a search engine. At the moment, there are only 25 wiki members, most of whom have yet to contribute more than a few words or a link here and there. So it's like the RV List in the very early days when it had about 25 members. Each day it grows and gets a little better, and the potential is unlimited. Probably the best current example of what the wiki can be is the article Gluing Your Canopy. http://www.rvwiki.org/index.php?title=Gluing_Your_Canopy The original article was posted by Rob Prior a week ago last Friday, and was very good. It has since been revised and added to about twenty times, by several different people, and is now probably the best single source of information on canopy gluing anywhere. Most builders I know feel that their knowledge or opinion is so limited, compared to The Greats, that they're reluctant to write it down in a public place like the wiki. But there's really no need to feel shy. One of the best things you can do on the wiki is start a new subject that you think is worthwhile, even if your knowledge about it is limited. Others will come along and add their wisdom or, if necessary, correct your mistakes. --- Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:57 AM PST US From: "Jim Anglin" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Anglin" I think you missed the point Larry. He is asking for people to make contributions to the Wiki pages. I have used them, made contributions, and find them very helpful. Go to the site and see what is being developed there. When many people have contributed and this site is a wealth of information the archives on Matronics sites will have cobwebs from lack of use. As far as I am concerned the Wiki pages are the new wave of fingertip info. I avoid the list archives like the plague because it takes forever to browse your way through a hundred hits to find the right info. That is why there are so many redundant questions on the list. Don't misunderstand me - the list is a great place (it would be better without the usenet mentality I see here a lot) and I have been lurking here since it first started and it has helped me a lot. I just think the Wiki will be a good source of information without the encumbrances of email articles that a person has no interest in. Jim ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:45 AM PST US From: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins) Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins) I think Doug's shown himself to be a good guy too. YMMV. Bob Do not archive -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > > I agree, the moderators are good people. I'm talking about the owner of the > list and I am speaking from fact on the -10 Yahoo list. > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:47 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > > > I wouldn't expect anything that advertises another list to make it > > through moderation on the Yahoo lists. > > I would. They have in the past and the moderators are good people. I canonly > speak for the 7/7A lists however. > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:34 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > Our vision for the RV Wiki has always been that it would be complementary to > the RV List and the other email lists and forums. The wiki is more like that > folder full of RV List posts that you keep because they have information you > think is valuable. Only it's everyone's folder of valuable posts all compiled > together, with indexes, cross references, and a search engine. I think this is an excellent project, and I applaud your work to get this going. One question - who "owns" the site, the contributions, and what are the long term plans for it? You're not going to trick us all into fleshing out the site, and then you get to make millions on google ads? :-) -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" That settles it. I'll stick with Al & steel for now and do all the glass work at once. Thx. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:31 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson Michael's right about this. Posts were edited so that any information pointing people to Matronics was excluded, among other things being edited out. In the end though, Smitty, what you'll find is that this will be a good thing. The Matronics List is superior to the Yahoo lists in many ways, and the archives are more "permanent" and can give a more complete search response. Also, I think that unless people want the form based list style, there is a benefit to keeping a fairly unified group of builders together in a single spot. If you have questions, it's nice to have the whole community there to answer. Multiple lists just fractures the group and people get confused about where the resources are (think new builders just starting their kit). Matt has done a bunch of things to improve the RV-10 list. I'm not sure how much he has on the other lists, but we can post some limited attachments, we have web forum style availability, and he shortened our email footer for us, among other things. If they aren't on this list, I'd bet they could be with a few requests. Spam here is low, and ads are almost non-existant. Tons of great RV stuff delivered direct to your inbox. Oh, and at donation time each year, you have the opportunity to get a CD of the entire archive. So, you know the stuff just isn't going away. Good info long into the future. Just don't forget the appropriate use of: Do Not Archive, which in itself is a super feature of this list. Tim Olson -- RV-10 do not archive RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" > > > I wouldn't expect anything that advertises another list to make it > through moderation on the Yahoo lists. When the RV-10 builders > mutinied and moved from Yahoo to Matronics, most of the posts letting > everyone know where we went were removed from the archives and then > blocked once the owner of the list caught on. We also were routinely > having edited posts without any comment that they were edited by the > moderator. I'm willing to bet he is being even more diligent if he > is shutting down the lists. > > Michael Sausen Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:41 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" > > > Anybody can set up a Yahoogroup. Just set one up and then post a > message in the one that's departing. > > Do not archive > > >> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of smittysrv >> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye >> >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "smittysrv" >> >> I'm not talking about the Matronics email list. My concern is about >> the loss of the Yahoo email list and being incouraged to go the >> Van's Air Force Forum website. >> >> Smitty >> >> -------- Smittys RV-9A >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D8116#8116 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:15 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" I hate to have to post this. As the title says, I have a slight gap in two ribs - one on each side. It is at least wide enough to get a piece of paper under. I have not yet installed the rear spar so I could drill these out and re-rivet. Something tells me that I really ought to. Is it something I would need to worry about? Is it a strength issue? Paul ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:35 AM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye On Mon Jan 30 13:18:56 2006, Mickey Coggins wrote : >One question - who "owns" the site, the contributions, >and what are the long term plans for it? You're not >going to trick us all into fleshing out the site, and >then you get to make millions on google ads? :-) This is an excellent question, and as one of the "owners" I'll jump in and give my answer. At the moment I, technically, "own" the RV Wiki in as much as I pay for the hosting, have registered the domain name, and try and keep the technical end of things working. Tedd is, in my opinion, the other "owner" as he has taken on the awesome task of being RV-Wiki content shepherd and prime evangelist. Long term plans (and it is my belief that Tedd and I are completely in sync on this) are to simply grow it as best we can. No Google ads. No "premium access" games where you pay a fee for the "good stuff". No tricks. The intent is to strive to create a value repository of information ... one complimentary to all the existing forums and mailing lists. It is *different*, and as such does not replace any of them, but simply adds new value to the options builders have for getting needed/useful information. Because of this we actually have some concern about our ability to support the site ... and may, eventually, have to solicit for some donations. We aren't there yet, and hope to not be for some time to come. Until there is enough value to make it *worth* people donating then it really isn't an issue. :) Don't get me wrong, there is some good stuff there already. I'm, personally, very impressed. But it is clearly in the early stages and has a long way to go. So you may well see a PayPal link show up on the RV Wiki one day, but it will be an optional and voluntary donation link, not a sign-up-to-access sort of link. Finally, I believe that the REAL answer to your question is that *every* *single* *contributor* "owns" the RV-Wiki. Yes this is a very idealistic viewpoint. Yes, it asks that you trust to our good intentions. I ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt, contribute, and give us the opportunity to show that your trust is well placed. -- Dwight PS: I think I will let this one be archived, as I think the question is very valid, and the answer important. I could be wrong, of course. :) ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:30 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > One question - who "owns" the site, the contributions, > and what are the long term plans for it? You're not > going to trick us all into fleshing out the site, and > then you get to make millions on google ads? :-) A reasonable question, considering how some things have developed on the web. No, there are no plans to commercialize the RV Wiki whatsoever, or limit access in any way. If it expands to the point where storage space and bandwidth become expensive we'll probably have to embark on some sort of fundraising drive, as Matt does with the Matronics lists. But that point is well in the future, if it is ever reached. Dwight Frye owns the server account on which the wiki is hosted. So in that sense I guess you could say he "owns" the wiki. But the content of the wiki is not copyrighted as such. It's freely available on the same basis as any documentation covered under the GNU Free Documentation License. (Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License.) By the way, please do not post or upload any copyrighted information to the RV Wiki without the permission of the copyright holder. --- Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ From: Gerry Filby --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Hee hee, one of the assumptions of a "Wiki" is that you can reach a general consensus on a topic, that might prove difficult :D Its an admirable effort though - I had a conversation with another builder on just this topic - sometimes its really hard to search for answers to your question - what keywords would I use. I for one will make an effort to contribute - when I have time off from my build :) g > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > My read is that he wants concise writeups on those subjects for all to > use, not advice on random subjects for himself. The wiki will be much > more useful than this list for 'how-to' questions, because a searcher > won't have to wade through literally 10's of thousands of messages to > find an answer. Even using the search engine on the list, you > still must > read through dozens or even hundreds of 'me too', 'I agree', posts > written about totally different subjects but with the wrong subject > line, etc to get an answer. > > Wiki's are great tools once they are populated with data. Go prowl > around Wikipedia & pick just about any subject of interest to see how > useful they can be. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page > > For instance, here's the entry for Van's Aircraft: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van%27s_Aircraft > > See something that's incorrect? Register, then log in & correct it. > > Charlie > > LarryRobertHelming wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > > >There are already lots of opinions and answers for the questions you bring > >up in your post below. I suggest you check the archives and get the best > >thought of hundreds who have gone before you. If after doing that you still > >have questions, I am sure you will get lots of answers if any questions > >still remain. http://www.matronics.com/search/ > > > >Indiana Larry > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > >> > >>There are several blank articles on the RV Wiki frequently-asked-questions > >>page > >>that are crying out to have something added. If you have any knowledge or > >>interest in any of these areas, please feel free to start an article. > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:55 AM PST US From: Kysh Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh As sears@searnet.com was saying: > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Even though I still support the RV-list, it's getting very difficult to use > because of the constant bombardment of chatter that has nothing to do with a > given subject line. Jim, Internet mailing lists are almost invariably a community more than a technical forum. If you're looking solely for technical information, a wiki is much more precise. It's not an alternative to an email list, but a supplement. In this day and age, where most of us have no sense of community in our daily lives, it becomes even more important to have a sense of knowing the people you deal with online-- thus do mailing lists and web forums support one side of the issue, and wikis the other. Now if there was only some sort of ideal piece of technology for political/technological/theological debates, we'd be all set. ;> do not archive -Kysh -- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:53 PM PST US From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" Subject: RV-List: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" I have an RV6A with on O320 which I am currently flying. I am rebuilding an O360 which I plan to use in an RV7A that I am building. I have heard that the break-in for a rebuilt engine is to run it full throttle for several hours initially. Unfortunately, that is not the way I want to break in my newly built RV7A on the first few flights. A friend suggested putting the O360 on my currently flying RV6A to break it in since it is already flying and I am familiar with it. Seems like a good idea to me. My question is: Can this be done without modifying my existing cowl on the RV6A? Does anyone out have any experience with changing over from an O320 to and O360? Jimmy Ayres RV6A - flying RV7A - building ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:25 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: linn Walters Those of us building airplanes know how much money we can sink into a 'hobby' ...... but then again, the bar seems to be raising all the time. If I may offer a premature suggestion: When it comes down to the need for outside investment in the wiki, why not create a section for advertisers instead of having them in you face all the time??? Since the wiki is an open forum (anyone can edit or change any/all info) then the vendor section can use it to post prices and inventory availability ..... and folks can go 'shopping' in that area just as they would a store or other online merchandiser. Just a thought!!! Linn do not archive Dwight Frye wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >On Mon Jan 30 13:18:56 2006, Mickey Coggins wrote : > > >>One question - who "owns" the site, the contributions, >>and what are the long term plans for it? You're not >>going to trick us all into fleshing out the site, and >>then you get to make millions on google ads? :-) >> >> > >This is an excellent question, and as one of the "owners" I'll jump >in and give my answer. At the moment I, technically, "own" the RV >Wiki in as much as I pay for the hosting, have registered the domain >name, and try and keep the technical end of things working. Tedd is, >in my opinion, the other "owner" as he has taken on the awesome task >of being RV-Wiki content shepherd and prime evangelist. > >Long term plans (and it is my belief that Tedd and I are completely >in sync on this) are to simply grow it as best we can. No Google ads. >No "premium access" games where you pay a fee for the "good stuff". >No tricks. The intent is to strive to create a value repository of >information ... one complimentary to all the existing forums and >mailing lists. It is *different*, and as such does not replace any >of them, but simply adds new value to the options builders have for >getting needed/useful information. > >Because of this we actually have some concern about our ability to >support the site ... and may, eventually, have to solicit for some >donations. We aren't there yet, and hope to not be for some time to >come. Until there is enough value to make it *worth* people donating >then it really isn't an issue. :) Don't get me wrong, there is some >good stuff there already. I'm, personally, very impressed. But it is >clearly in the early stages and has a long way to go. So you may well >see a PayPal link show up on the RV Wiki one day, but it will be an >optional and voluntary donation link, not a sign-up-to-access sort of >link. > >Finally, I believe that the REAL answer to your question is that >*every* *single* *contributor* "owns" the RV-Wiki. Yes this is a very >idealistic viewpoint. Yes, it asks that you trust to our good intentions. >I ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt, contribute, and give >us the opportunity to show that your trust is well placed. > > -- Dwight > >PS: I think I will let this one be archived, as I think the question is >very valid, and the answer important. I could be wrong, of course. :) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:45 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion From: "bdjones1965" --> RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965" Sounds like almost as much hassle as finding a test stand and breaking it in on the ground. Ever consider this option? Bryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8234#8234 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:28 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 1/30/06 2:07:23 PM Central Standard Time, pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net writes: > When it comes down to the need > for outside investment in the wiki, why not create a section for > advertisers instead of having them in you face all the time??? >>> Great suggestion, Linn- I'll add that a simple link in any article, just using the product or vendor name that takes you to the Vendor area would be slick... Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:28 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint From: "Folbrecht, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" To clarify, this is the front-flange of the main rib to front-spar joint on a 9A HS. ________________________________ From: Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint I hate to have to post this. As the title says, I have a slight gap in two ribs - one on each side. It is at least wide enough to get a piece of paper under. I have not yet installed the rear spar so I could drill these out and re-rivet. Something tells me that I really ought to. Is it something I would need to worry about? Is it a strength issue? Paul ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ From: "Chuck Jensen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Kysh wrote.... Now if there was only some sort of ideal piece of technology for political/technological/theological debates, we'd be all set. ;> Kysh, There is...it's called the ballot box and from the looks of things, we haven't been exercising it as frequently and in as discerning manner as we should. Chuck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:24 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: O320 to O360 conversion From: "BPA" --> RV-List message posted by: "BPA" Jimmy, The cowling I wouldn't think would need modification, but the engine baffling would as the 0-360 is wider than the 0-320. Engine break-in does not have to be done at full throttle, but rather at high MP settings. 25-26 square is ideal as long as temps and pressures are normal. It does require a (few hours) but not several hours at a time. (unless your lucky) Hope this helps, Allen Barrett Barrett Precision Engines, Inc www.barrettprecisionengines.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AYRES, JIMMY L Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: RV-List: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" I have an RV6A with on O320 which I am currently flying. I am rebuilding an O360 which I plan to use in an RV7A that I am building. I have heard that the break-in for a rebuilt engine is to run it full throttle for several hours initially. Unfortunately, that is not the way I want to break in my newly built RV7A on the first few flights. A friend suggested putting the O360 on my currently flying RV6A to break it in since it is already flying and I am familiar with it. Seems like a good idea to me. My question is: Can this be done without modifying my existing cowl on the RV6A? Does anyone out have any experience with changing over from an O320 to and O360? Jimmy Ayres RV6A - flying RV7A - building ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:51 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley Longer cowl and mount on the 320 on the RV7 and I believe that's the case on the RV6 too. I would test stand break in before fighting the transfer. Darrell do not archive "AYRES, JIMMY L" wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "AYRES, JIMMY L" I have an RV6A with on O320 which I am currently flying. I am rebuilding an O360 which I plan to use in an RV7A that I am building. I have heard that the break-in for a rebuilt engine is to run it full throttle for several hours initially. Unfortunately, that is not the way I want to break in my newly built RV7A on the first few flights. A friend suggested putting the O360 on my currently flying RV6A to break it in since it is already flying and I am familiar with it. Seems like a good idea to me. My question is: Can this be done without modifying my existing cowl on the RV6A? Does anyone out have any experience with changing over from an O320 to and O360? Jimmy Ayres RV6A - flying RV7A - building "Do Not Archive" Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:38 PM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye This is a good suggestion .. and might well be the lesser of all the various evils. It is (maybe) a little premature, but there is certainly even an argument to be made that sharing vendor information is just another part of sharing "community knowledge". This is one that Tedd and I will have to discuss and consider. It really does seem to walk the fine line between having in-your-face ads (which we do NOT intend to have) and having an all-donation sort of funding approach (which can be .. *ahem* .. challenging). In fact, I have just created a "Funding" page where we can share thoughts on the issue. Go to : http://www.rvwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:RVWiki_Funding Since it is I who is paying out of pocket, I thought it might as well be me that created the page. :) Again, thanks for the suggestion! -- Dwight do not archive On Mon Jan 30 18:03:32 2006, linn Walters wrote : >Those of us building airplanes know how much money we can sink into a >'hobby' ...... but then again, the bar seems to be raising all the time. > If I may offer a premature suggestion: When it comes down to the need >for outside investment in the wiki, why not create a section for >advertisers instead of having them in you face all the time??? Since >the wiki is an open forum (anyone can edit or change any/all info) then >the vendor section can use it to post prices and inventory availability >..... and folks can go 'shopping' in that area just as they would a >store or other online merchandiser. Just a thought!!! >Linn ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:01 PM PST US From: "Oliver Washburn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: "Oliver Washburn" I have never read that the eng should be run wide open to break in. However they do want you to run at high power settings for the first few hours. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdjones1965" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion > --> RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965" > > Sounds like almost as much hassle as finding a test stand and breaking it > in on the ground. Ever consider this option? > > Bryan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8234#8234 > > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:21 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton On 30 Jan 2006, at 10:13, Folbrecht, Paul wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" > > > Which begs the question as to why the other lists are needed at all. > The Yahoo groups have one big advantage over the RV-Lists - moderation. The moderation keeps things on-topic (no long threads about the demise of another list, for example), and stops the occasional bouts of flaming that have driven many good, yet thin- skinned, people from some of the Matronics lists. I'll be the first to admit that the Yahoo groups aren't perfect, and that the Matronics lists have many advantages too. The Yahoo system won't disappear. Either Doug will agree to pass the keys to his groups on to someone else, or someone else will start a new set of groups. Don't worry. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 do not archive ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:00 PM PST US From: Ron Lee Subject: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ Do not archive --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee >Since >the wiki is an open forum (anyone can edit or change any/all info) then >the vendor section can use it to post prices and inventory availability >..... and folks can go 'shopping' in that area just as they would a >store or other online merchandiser. Just a thought!!! >Linn This is a good idea and sure beats another "forum" where you spend much of the time on the site waiting for stinkin ads to load. Ron Lee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:14 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Paul, Only a sheet of paper? On my 8a HS and VS, the rib lengths were off so badly, that I couldn't maintain edge distance on the front spar flanges. (My kit was not matched hole remember) I had to cut the front flanges off the affected ribs and make "scab" flanges to get everything to line up correctly. It wasn't the only place this was necessary on my kit. It sounds like your mis-alignment is slight however. If interested, I can email you photos of how to modify a rib using the scab flange method. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" > > >I hate to have to post this. > > >As the title says, I have a slight gap in two ribs - one on each side. >It is at least wide enough to get a piece of paper under. I have not >yet installed the rear spar so I could drill these out and re-rivet. >Something tells me that I really ought to. Is it something I would need >to worry about? Is it a strength issue? > > >Paul > > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:40 PM PST US From: "c.ennis" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: "c.ennis" Jim, I agree and I couldn't have said it better. Flying an RV-6A in Kentucky Charlie Ennis ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:46 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Fiberglass gurus, After trying to get the metal skirt to fit on my RV-3 I'm giving up -- I'm convinced God just didn't intend aluminum to be used for compound curves, fiberglass on the other hand is perfectly suited for that. No worries with laying it up and such (West Systems and 9 oz crowfoot e-glass), but what I'd appreciate some ideas on are how to craft a molding surface. I will pop rivet my tipover plexi bubble to the frame in every other hole, which I will later drill out, so there won't need to be an clecos and thus I can layup onto the plexi. But what do I use to create a form from the plexi down to the fuselage, or to bridge the gap along the sides? This is way too much area for the traditional modeling clay we use for intersection fairings. If I use any sort of tape it will create an uneven layup and require lots of sanding and filling, something I'd rather avoid. I was thinking of using expandable foam around the front and rear sections (won't work on the sides) and then sculpting it. Seems like I heard that the cans of foam you can buy at Home Depot aren't good because they contain formaldehyde, not sure why that's bad though. Spruce has Poly-Cell 100 Polyurethane Foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polycel.php and Liquid "X30" Foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php Anyone had an experience with either of these? When using foam, do you lay up directly on it, or coat it with something first? And lastly, what would be a good way to create a surface on the sides? Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with... http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Gallery/DSC_0899.jpg Thanks! Randy Lervold www.rv-3.com www.rv-8.com ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:27 PM PST US From: "Scott Diffenbaugh" Subject: Re: RV-List: PC Simulators --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" I'm looking to purchase a flight simulator program for my PC to refresh my skills before spending big bucks on actual training. I have seen some information on MSFS 2004, Flight Factory RV-7/7A, X-Plane, & Elite. Any feedback on software and the best stick, throttle/prop/mixture, rudder controls would be appreciated. Scott Diffenbaugh diff@foothill.net RV-7A about ready to fly ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:04 PM PST US From: Paul Trotter Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter I agree that Doug is a good guy and I like his site quite a bit, having contributed both information and money to it, but I am disappointed in his decision to unilaterally shut down the Yahoo Groups (in favor of his for profit site) even though several people, including myself, have offered to take over ownership. I think the RV community should decide which sites survive through usage, not the whim of a single individual. I believe these Yahoo Groups have grown too large to continue with the concept of a single owner, and if an owner no longer wants to be involved, he should turn it over to someone else. This is very easy to do, and Yahoo even allows multiple group owners. I realize that a new group can be created very quickly, but we will lose the archives, and I think it is just silly to have to do this. It has always been my concern that any site that is owned, or hosted, by an individual is subject to their whim, regardless of their good intentions and I felt that Yahoo, with all its limitations, was a good solution as it does not have to be in the control of a single person. I guess I should have been concerned there too. I still hope Doug changes his mind, and my offer to "own" the RV-8 group still holds, as I feel that there is room for multiple information sources that meet various builder's needs. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Collins" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > --> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins) > > I think Doug's shown himself to be a good guy too. YMMV. > > Bob > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:55 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: Darrell Reiley Randy, Check this out... www.rvpilot.com/RV9ACanopy/CanopyIndexPart2.htm Darrell do not archive Randy Lervold wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Fiberglass gurus, After trying to get the metal skirt to fit on my RV-3 I'm giving up -- I'm convinced God just didn't intend aluminum to be used for compound curves, fiberglass on the other hand is perfectly suited for that. No worries with laying it up and such (West Systems and 9 oz crowfoot e-glass), but what I'd appreciate some ideas on are how to craft a molding surface. I will pop rivet my tipover plexi bubble to the frame in every other hole, which I will later drill out, so there won't need to be an clecos and thus I can layup onto the plexi. But what do I use to create a form from the plexi down to the fuselage, or to bridge the gap along the sides? This is way too much area for the traditional modeling clay we use for intersection fairings. If I use any sort of tape it will create an uneven layup and require lots of sanding and filling, something I'd rather avoid. I was thinking of using expandable foam around the front and rear sections (won't work on the sides) and then sculpting it. Seems like I heard that the cans of foam you can buy at Home Depot aren't good because they contain formaldehyde, not sure why that's bad though. Spruce has Poly-Cell 100 Polyurethane Foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polycel.php and Liquid "X30" Foam http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php Anyone had an experience with either of these? When using foam, do you lay up directly on it, or coat it with something first? And lastly, what would be a good way to create a surface on the sides? Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with... http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Gallery/DSC_0899.jpg Thanks! Randy Lervold www.rv-3.com www.rv-8.com "Do Not Archive" Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:57 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" You could try tapeing thin cardboard between the canopy and fuselage. My cardboard of preference (from making the empennage fairing years ago) comes from Diet Coke 12-pack cartons... Several pieces of cardboard, a little packing tape, and volia, female mold... Alternately, you could get yourself some Monokote or similar shrink film, cut it to rough shape, tape the ends to the plexi and fuselage, and shrink the stuff into the shape you want. Might even work. (Note- put a layer of packing tape between the monokote and your canopy, or risk color transfer)... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Lervold" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > Fiberglass gurus, > > After trying to get the metal skirt to fit on my RV-3 I'm giving up -- I'm > convinced God just didn't intend aluminum to be used for compound curves, > fiberglass on the other hand is perfectly suited for that. No worries with > laying it up and such (West Systems and 9 oz crowfoot e-glass), but what > I'd > appreciate some ideas on are how to craft a molding surface. I will pop > rivet my tipover plexi bubble to the frame in every other hole, which I > will > later drill out, so there won't need to be an clecos and thus I can layup > onto the plexi. But what do I use to create a form from the plexi down to > the fuselage, or to bridge the gap along the sides? This is way too much > area for the traditional modeling clay we use for intersection fairings. > > If I use any sort of tape it will create an uneven layup and require lots > of > sanding and filling, something I'd rather avoid. I was thinking of using > expandable foam around the front and rear sections (won't work on the > sides) > and then sculpting it. Seems like I heard that the cans of foam you can > buy > at Home Depot aren't good because they contain formaldehyde, not sure why > that's bad though. > Spruce has Poly-Cell 100 Polyurethane Foam > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polycel.php > and Liquid "X30" Foam > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php > > Anyone had an experience with either of these? When using foam, do you lay > up directly on it, or coat it with something first? > > And lastly, what would be a good way to create a surface on the sides? > Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with... > http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Gallery/DSC_0899.jpg > > Thanks! > Randy Lervold > www.rv-3.com > www.rv-8.com > > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:58 PM PST US From: "Mark Burns" Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Burns" Paul, I did my "tail tips" while I was waiting on the wing kit. I'm glad I did. It's a bunch of work already done. The "doing it all at once" idea sounds logical but I don't think it has any real merit. It doesn't really take that long to get set up, and I didn't think it was all that messy either. Jump in! If you have more of the kit there to work on it really won't make any difference. It's all got to get done. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:26 AM Subject: RV-List: Glass as it comes or all at once at the end? --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" I am close to finishing up my HS and will be doing so this week. I have got to wondering about whether I should do the tips when it's done or just wait and do all of them at the end. I lean towards the latter because I'm afraid of fiberglass, and, seriously, it seems to make more sense to do it all at once (though I guess that is going to mean several weeks of hell all at once). Are there any good reasons I should do the tail tips earlier? Paul 9A QB #1176 ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:10 PM PST US From: James Freeman Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: James Freeman On Jan 30, 2006, at 5:21 PM, Randy Lervold wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > Fiberglass gurus, > > (snip) Umm not really a fiberglass guru, but I think I can help here. > Spruce has Poly-Cell 100 Polyurethane Foam > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polycel.php > and Liquid "X30" Foam > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php > > Anyone had an experience with either of these? When using foam, do > you lay > up directly on it, or coat it with something first? I recently helped someone do a _lot_ of fiberglass work on an RV-8, and the X30 foam completely rocks. We mixed it in small cups ( like you would have next to a drinking fountain) by filling each cup about 40%, and pouring back and forth until the foam started to kick off, then pouring it onto the work surface. In 10 minutes it's ready to file or sand, or even add more foam. It's not possible to make a mistake you can't fix in 15 minutes. The foam is kind of porous, so we covered it with strips of carefully laid duct tape as a release after getting the surface we wanted. This is the method I'm planning to use to redo my tail fairing, which has "bumps" between the fasteners. The local EZ guys seemed to approve of our method, although they did seem somewhat amused by our slow pace... James Freeman > > And lastly, what would be a good way to create a surface on the sides? > Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with... > http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Gallery/DSC_0899.jpg > > Thanks! > Randy Lervold > www.rv-3.com > www.rv-8.com > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:21 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > Fiberglass gurus, Well, that I'm not. Is it possible to simply drape a single, lightweight strip across the gap? Let it cure and then build on that? One might have to go along every so often and give it a nip or tuck as it cures, but it might work. Pay attention to the bias of the weave, I'm not sure what would be best in this case. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 712 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:20 PM PST US From: PJ Seipel Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: PJ Seipel I'll keep my opinion on the ownership of the groups to myself, but one thing I have to comment on is the fact that people keep mentioning the archives. Have you ever used the archives on the Yahoo groups? The interface is absolutely worthless, and searching is next to impossible unless you have a lot of time to waste. At least on Doug's site and here on Matronics you actually get usable, searchable archives. I used the Yahoo RV-10 group when I started my RV-10 because that's where the discussions were. Now that they've moved here, I find that I don't miss the Yahoo group at all. PJ RV-10 #40032 Do not archive Paul Trotter wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter > > I agree that Doug is a good guy and I like his site quite a bit, having > contributed both information and money to it, but I am disappointed in his > decision to unilaterally shut down the Yahoo Groups (in favor of his for > profit site) even though several people, including myself, have offered to > take over ownership. I think the RV community should decide which sites > survive through usage, not the whim of a single individual. I believe these > Yahoo Groups have grown too large to continue with the concept of a single > owner, and if an owner no longer wants to be involved, he should turn it > over to someone else. This is very easy to do, and Yahoo even allows > multiple group owners. I realize that a new group can be created very > quickly, but we will lose the archives, and I think it is just silly to > have to do this. > > It has always been my concern that any site that is owned, or hosted, by an > individual is subject to their whim, regardless of their good intentions and > I felt that Yahoo, with all its limitations, was a good solution as it does > not have to be in the control of a single person. I guess I should have > been concerned there too. > > I still hope Doug changes his mind, and my offer to "own" the RV-8 group > still holds, as I feel that there is room for multiple information sources > that meet various builder's needs. > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Collins" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:47 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins) >> >> I think Doug's shown himself to be a good guy too. YMMV. >> >> Bob >> >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:20 PM PST US From: "Bob Perkinson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Perkinson" If memory serves me the 2 inboard ribs are canted to the outside and require the fabrication of .040 shims (HS-909) to fill the gap Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" To clarify, this is the front-flange of the main rib to front-spar joint on a 9A HS. ________________________________ From: Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint I hate to have to post this. As the title says, I have a slight gap in two ribs - one on each side. It is at least wide enough to get a piece of paper under. I have not yet installed the rear spar so I could drill these out and re-rivet. Something tells me that I really ought to. Is it something I would need to worry about? Is it a strength issue? Paul ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:35 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Some builder made a form out of his wife's panty hose and stretched the material over the gear leg to create fairings. A release agent would have to be used where you don't want the stuff to grab. My 1 cent worth ... Jerry Grimmonpre' Is it possible to simply drape a single, lightweight > strip across the gap? Let it cure and then build on that? One might have > to go along every so often and give it a nip or tuck as it cures, but it > might work. Pay attention to the bias of the weave, I'm not sure what > would > be best in this case. ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:35 PM PST US From: Paul Trotter Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter I agree that the Yahoo search function is poor, but there are times when I have gone back and looked for something I knew I had read before. I'm not knocking either Doug's site or Matronics, I actually use both of those more than I use the Yahoo groups. I just think that there are enough people who, for whatever reason, prefer the Yahoo groups and people should be able to choose whatever method they like best. In the long run the community will select its choice as people migrate to where the best information is. I just want to see it happen naturally, rather than forced. These groups have helped me enough that I am willing to put in some time helping run a group as a way of returning the help I have received. It just doesn't make sense to start a new group when it only takes a minute to change ownership of the existing group where all the members are already registered. Regardless of what happens, I will continue to support both Doug's site and the Matronics site. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ Seipel" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye > --> RV-List message posted by: PJ Seipel > > I'll keep my opinion on the ownership of the groups to myself, but one > thing I have to comment on is the fact that people keep mentioning the > archives. Have you ever used the archives on the Yahoo groups? The > interface is absolutely worthless, and searching is next to impossible > unless you have a lot of time to waste. At least on Doug's site and > here on Matronics you actually get usable, searchable archives. I used > the Yahoo RV-10 group when I started my RV-10 because that's where the > discussions were. Now that they've moved here, I find that I don't miss > the Yahoo group at all. > > PJ > RV-10 #40032 > Do not archive > > > Paul Trotter wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter >> >> I agree that Doug is a good guy and I like his site quite a bit, having >> contributed both information and money to it, but I am disappointed in >> his >> decision to unilaterally shut down the Yahoo Groups (in favor of his for >> profit site) even though several people, including myself, have offered >> to >> take over ownership. I think the RV community should decide which sites >> survive through usage, not the whim of a single individual. I believe >> these >> Yahoo Groups have grown too large to continue with the concept of a >> single >> owner, and if an owner no longer wants to be involved, he should turn it >> over to someone else. This is very easy to do, and Yahoo even allows >> multiple group owners. I realize that a new group can be created very >> quickly, but we will lose the archives, and I think it is just silly to >> have to do this. >> >> It has always been my concern that any site that is owned, or hosted, by >> an >> individual is subject to their whim, regardless of their good intentions >> and >> I felt that Yahoo, with all its limitations, was a good solution as it >> does >> not have to be in the control of a single person. I guess I should have >> been concerned there too. >> >> I still hope Doug changes his mind, and my offer to "own" the RV-8 group >> still holds, as I feel that there is room for multiple information >> sources >> that meet various builder's needs. >> >> Paul >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bob Collins" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:47 PM >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Yahoo RV Lists are going bye-bye >> >> >> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net (Bob Collins) >>> >>> I think Doug's shown himself to be a good guy too. YMMV. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:18 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Wiki FAQ --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Kysh wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Kysh > >As sears@searnet.com was saying: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: >> >>Even though I still support the RV-list, it's getting very difficult to use >>because of the constant bombardment of chatter that has nothing to do with a >>given subject line. >> >> > >Jim, > >Internet mailing lists are almost invariably a community more than a technical >forum. If you're looking solely for technical information, a wiki is much more >precise. It's not an alternative to an email list, but a supplement. >In this day and age, where most of us have no sense of community in our >daily lives, it becomes even more important to have a sense of knowing >the people you deal with online-- thus do mailing lists and web forums >support one side of the issue, and wikis the other. > >Now if there was only some sort of ideal piece of technology for >political/technological/theological debates, we'd be all set. ;> > >do not archive >-Kysh > > I only wish that Matt would moderate this topic. Talk about something useless going on and on and on. I guess that is one of the great things about this RV-List there is no moderation OR advertising and people can use it to promote their own RV web sites. do not archive ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:13 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Usually a prolonged full power run is the last gasp before pulling the jugs on an engine that consumes to much oil after overhaul. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Washburn Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion --> RV-List message posted by: "Oliver Washburn" I have never read that the eng should be run wide open to break in. However they do want you to run at high power settings for the first few hours. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdjones1965" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: O320 to O360 conversion > --> RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965" > > Sounds like almost as much hassle as finding a test stand and breaking it > in on the ground. Ever consider this option? > > Bryan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8234#8234 > > > ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:28 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: RV-List: Rudder questions --> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler 1. I saw a very well done RV 7 this weekend with a trim wedge mounted on the side of the rudder. Has anyone used an adjustable trim tab? It would be easy to slip in while building the rudder. 2. Has anyone had experience with 3M polyurethane adhesive? I am thinking about using it on the trailing edged assembly. Sherman Butler RV 7a Empennage Sherman Butler RV-7a Empennage --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:56 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: RV-List: nut plate revets --> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler Is mounting nut plates with NAS-1097 rivets (oops) and acceptable practice? It seems as if it would be easier in some locations, such as the trim plate. Sherman Butler RV 7a Empennage Sherman Butler RV-7a Empennage --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:08 PM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint --> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" Some of the other replies reference a fit problem but I read it that the parts fit and that you had a small gap after riveting. If that's the case, yes, you should drill them out and rivet again. Squeezing is the best method there; I found that driven rivets tended to gap where the parts were fairly flexible, unless I clamped near the hole, which made driving rivets more difficult. Where those rib flanges are, there aren't enough clecos or other structure to keep things from flexing and separating while you rivet. This will be true on all remaining structure - wing ribs and fuselage bulkheads. The preceding refers to a gap at the rivet. It the gap is between rivets, there is some fitment issue in the structure. I'd have a tech counselor look at it and advise you. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Cabin floors in, working on passenger seat. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: RV-List: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint --> RV-List message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul" To clarify, this is the front-flange of the main rib to front-spar joint on a 9A HS. ________________________________ From: Folbrecht, Paul Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Gaps in HS rib-to-front-spar joint I hate to have to post this. As the title says, I have a slight gap in two ribs - one on each side. It is at least wide enough to get a piece of paper under. I have not yet installed the rear spar so I could drill these out and re-rivet. Something tells me that I really ought to. Is it something I would need to worry about? Is it a strength issue? Paul ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:11 PM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: nut plate revets --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " Sherman, The main purpose of a nutplate rivet is to hold the nut(plate) so you can get a screw in it . . . the rivet is not usually structural. So I would use what ever works in a given situation unless you perceive that the rivet is doing something more than just holding the nutplate. I generally try to use the rivet that is called out . . . but I would rather have a good "blind rivet" than a bad driven one! You talk about Oops rivets . . . which is just another form of driven rivet in my shop and are used mainly when you have missdrilled something and ended up to a over sized hole? Good Luck, Bob in SE Iowa On 1/30/06, Sherman Butler wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler > > > Is mounting nut plates with NAS-1097 rivets (oops) and acceptable practice? It seems as if it would be easier in some locations, such as the trim plate. > > Sherman Butler > RV 7a Empennage > > > Sherman Butler > RV-7a Empennage > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:19 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RV-List: Request for Kitplanes Magazine: Avionics Shops for Hazard Avoidance Installation --> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hello all, I'm working on an article for Kitplanes Magazine about the various products for hazard avoidance (traffic, terrain and weather), and would like to hear from anyone who's had this installed in their RV (or other homebuilt, if you have more than an RV). In particular, I'd like to hear your experiences in what you learned in the process, what you wish you had known at the outset, how your experiences with the gear has been and whether it's met your expectations. I would like to focus on the products that are not dug-in certified gear, but rather designed and engineered for experimental aircraft. In addition, I would like to talk to a few avionics shops who have some solid experience in these installations in experiementals, so if you have a shop that you felt did a good job, that would be great. For the sake of the list traffic, I may be contacted off-list at (de-spammed email to follow): Coryemberson (at) earthlink (dot) net Also, congratulations to Dan Checkoway, chosen by SportAir workshops to teach RV Assembly classes on the west coast. Attaboy, Dan! Your "Build Your Skills: Metal" series in Kitplanes has been excellent! (And yes, I lifted this from the latest issue's "Around the Patch"!) Thanks very much! Best, Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine ________________________________ Message 77 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:59 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: nut plate revets --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 1/30/2006 7:32:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, lsbrv7a@yahoo.com writes: Is mounting nut plates with NAS-1097 rivets (oops) and acceptable practice? It seems as if it would be easier in some locations, such as the trim plate. ========================================== Absolutely. These rivets were almost made for this application. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 771hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________ Message 78 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:26 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: nut plate revets --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point Yes, 1097 rivets are acceptable and IMHO invaluable for installing nutplates. The rivets only hold the nutplate in place, thetorque of the screw in the nutplate provides the structural stuff. You could hold the nutplate in place with dried bubblegum if you wanted to. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee > >